Underscoring a significant shift in Canadian law, a 12-year-old transgender boy in Alberta has been granted a new birth certificate officiating his status as male.
The certificate was publicly presented to Wren Kauffman as part of an Edmonton pride brunch hosted by the city’s mayor — the result of a complaint Wren filed with the Alberta Human Rights Commission based on the inability to amend his listed sex.
Before today, Alberta only allowed a person’s sex to be switched legally if gender reassignment had been performed, an outdated practice that was also shot down by a local judge who ruled that doing so violates the rights of transgender people.
Similar human rights complaints have also been filed in four other provinces: Ontario, British Columbia, Saskatchewan and Manitoba, signifying a possible sweep in transgender rights victories across Canada.
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
Learn more about transgender children with Ryland’s Story, in which parents of a 6-year-old trans child document his transition.
Follow another parent’s stories of raising a gender non-conforming child on Queerty’s series: Raising my Rainbow.
H/t: Global News
Updated to clarify the pride brunch was in Edmonton.
Dakotahgeo
An excellent legal position and too long in arriving! Congrats Wren!
Pastor Dakotahgeo
dastels
This decision is great news, and makes me proud to be a Canadian.
I was, however, dismayed by the poor journalism/research/writing. Alberta is a province, which you correctly allude to in the final paragraph. But you imply that it is a city when you state “a pride brunch hosted by the city’s mayor”. And what city? I’m assuming either Calgary or Edmonton, but there’s no way of knowing. Sloppy.
Alan down in Florida
The bravery of these trans kids is inspiring. They are already changing the world for the better at such a young age. I can only imaging the wonderful things they will do as adults.
masc4masc
sheer CHILD ABUSE. why would u let a child make such a life-altering decision? i feel so sorry for these kids that are obviously not receiving appropriate guidance from their parents. so sad.
ingyaom
I couldn’t even tell you where my birth certificate was, so who care what it says? I don’t understand this story – a transgendered boy’s birth certificate was reissued to say what, that he was born actually born as a boy? That doesn’t even make sense.
tdx3fan
We are talking about changing a word on a birth certificate. We are not talking about signing your child up for major surgery. I still question rather you really know your true identity during that age, but when its just a word on a birth certificate that can later be altered again, I don’t see the big deal in allowing it.
Of course, it probably does more good than harm to allow it, so I think it should be legal.
RDenner0183
@dastels: how about you read it again before you accuse people of sloppy journalism? obviously you missed the part where it said: “The certificate was publicly presented to Wren Kauffman as part of an Edmonton pride brunch hosted by the city’s mayor”
Sloppy reading apparently.
kmac625
@ingyaom: Presumably he was born a girl but feels he is a boy. Easy enough to figure out.
kmac625
@RDenner0183: @ingyaom: You beat me to the punch on this one. Definitely was sloppy reading.
SirBroad
@RDenner0183: @kmac625:
“Updated to clarify the pride brunch was in Edmonton.” Who’s reading sloppy now?
equality supporter
@masc4masc: Child abuse is forcing a child to live a lie their whole life just because that is what you as a parent wants. I was forced to live my whole childhood and early adulthood as a heterosexual because of people like you that refused to let me be myself. That was the qorst 28 years of my life. I still suffer from the nightmares that living a lie caused me in my life. I think it is great that this child has the support of the parents so he will not live the life of horror that I did.
Shiru
@ingyaom:
Here’s the thing, you need your birth certificate for certain things, like getting jobs and driver’s licenses. So if people see a sex labeled on there that doesn’t match, the best case scenario is just that they find out the person is transgender (which is none of their business really), the worst case scenario is that they’ll be discriminated against. This isn’t about saying that they were born one way or another; this is about protecting people’s identity and privacy.
corvaspikenard
@masc4masc: “sheer CHILD ABUSE”
Report it then. Call up social services and make a case. They can investigate and find out if the child is happy and in a supportive, non-abusive environment.
If you truly care, then go through the correct channels and prove it.
“why would u let a child make such a life-altering decision?”
Changing a letter on a piece of paper is really that big a deal to you? He can always change it back.
Brakechute
So let me see if I understand this… Wren was born biologically female. At the ripe old age of twelve Wren honestly and seriously held a heartfelt belief that nature made an equipment error because although Wren feels male, Wren remains biologically female. In spite of anatomical evidence to the contrary, Wren’s birth certificate was falsified to state that he is male, when anatomically she is not. And this is a victory? Really? I can almost see a case for altering or issuing an amended birth certificate after reassignment surgery, but before? Sorry… have to call a “fail” on this one.
Throbert McGee
“Outdated”? O RLY!?
Last time I checked, quite a lot of trans folks haven’t gotten the memo that medical reassignment is “outdated,” and many of their advocates continue to insist that public and private insurers ought to pay for such reassignment on the grounds that it’s a “medically necessary” procedure rather than an “elective” one.
(Personally, I think it sounds like a positive development that transgender identity can now be legally recognized without invasive medical intervention. Nonetheless, calling SRS and/or hormone therapy “outdated” seems like a serious overstatement that doesn’t reflect any actual consensus of the “T community,” even if it’s consistent with the decision of, say, Johns Hopkins to discontinue SRS.)
sprocket
Excellent!! We are our brains, not our genitals.
Shiru
@Brakechute:
I’d advise you do some research, friend. Transgender brains are wired from birth as the sex they identify as, not the one they biologically resemble (http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/content/131/12/3132.abstract) and they know it from an early age (http://avitale.com/developmentalreview.htm). This is not an irreversible operation; all this does is protect the child’s identity and privacy, and it’s going to make his life a lot easier going forward. If you met this child, you would not assume anything other than male. Is it anyone’s business what’s in his pant? Personally, I think not.
corvaspikenard
@Throbert McGee: What they are referring to is the outdated practice of making urogenital surgery mandatory in order to have your documents changed.
FTMs especially don’t often have genital surgery because their surgeries are still primitive and unsatisfactory. Requiring someone to have a surgery that they don’t want just to change their documents is barbaric.
Others can’t have surgeries for medical reasons (I watched a heartbreaking story about a hemophiliac trans woman whom no surgeon would touch) but still need their documents changed so that they can get jobs and housing without being discriminated against.
So that’s the crux of the issue. In this case, surgery at age 12 would be detrimental, as the body hasn’t finished growing yet.
ArisMom
@Throbert McGee: You need to read slower. They aren’t saying that SRS is outdated. They are saying that the practice of not re-issuing birth certificates before SRS is outdated.
I’m scared for society that people are such terrible readers.
ArisMom
@Brakechute: Did you know what gender you were at the “ripe old age of 12”? I’d say you knew before you were 3. People know. You don’t need to question it.
Shiru
@Throbert McGee:
I don’t think the article meant that SRS or hormone therapy is outdated, only that the necessity of SRS to change the birth certificate is outdated. Many trans people can’t afford the surgery, but that doesn’t make their identity any less valid.
feejay3
masc4masc ??? seriously you think ots child abuse? i really doubt the parents said i want a trangender child and for them to be unhappy and suicidal until we fix it. parents want theor kids to be happy and not suffering. wake up.
sjl4evr
@equality supporter: I am so sorry that your parents were not equipped to deal with the “real you”. My daughter identifies as bisexual and I cannot understand what could possibly compel a parent to refuse to love his or her child unconditionally. When my daughter was 7, we were in a very serious wreck. I had about 3 seconds to make a decision of whether it would be my life or theirs (her and her brother). It was the easiest decision I have ever made, and though it has left me disabled and living with daily chronic pain, I would do it all again, in a heartbeat. My children walked away from that wreck and that’s all that matters to me. Perhaps if more parents were faced with the prospect of losing their children forever, they would understand how precious those children are. I don’t care that my daughter is bisexual. I just care that she is healthy and happy.
sarahszuz
@Throbert McGee:
The procedure ITSELF isn’t outdated, but the WAITING until the procedure is done before changing the birth certificate is outdated.
SarahCat
@Brakechute: Using the prior name and person pronoun is really rather inconsiderate and bespeaks of intolerance and a lack of understanding. This is less an error of plumbing than it is a failure to know that plumbing does not define a small number of people. It has always been that way, but in the past, this difference was dealt with by processes like euthanasia, shunning the person, relegating them to live in a segregated group. Sometimes these people were considered to in possession of special powers, I.e., shamans.
The truth is, no one, other than the person themselves really know how they see and can relate to the world. The one thing they don’t need is hostility and ridicule, borne of ignorance. Most people can relate to the world consistent with their plumbing, but a few cannot. They are deserving of the human right of being themselves and in the United States, have the constitutional right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. They have their rights and you have yours. However they choose to live their lives, really doesn’t affect you and is basically, none of your business. Concentrate on being the best person you can be and remember, your rights end, where Ryland’s nose (and everyone else’s) begins.
masc4masc
@equality supporter: *cues violins* sorry, to burst ur bubble, but this kid will still live a life of horror and isolation being that the vast majority of its peers will not understand and will most likely ridicule.
@corvaspikenard: if they’re changing it on paper, they’re obviously raising their kid trans. however, from our previous conversations, i’m not at all surprised that ur in favor of kids playing musical chairs with their gender. kids simply don’t have the mental capacity to make such a decision.
corvaspikenard
@masc4masc: “if they’re changing it on paper, they’re obviously raising their kid trans”
Is that like raising your kids to be gay? Because I recall some conservatives saying that; that by allowing 12yr old boys to have boyfriends, they are ‘raising them to be gay’.
Of course I’m in favour of allowing kids to be whatever gender they want. As someone who wasn’t allowed to express my gender through my childhood and teens, I see this as nothing but good.
Let the kid express his gender identity. If he ends up changing his mind, then that’s not a big deal. But for the kids (like myself) whose gender identity persists through to adulthood, this save a whole lot of grief and social torture.
I can’t see any logical reason for being against that. If you can prove otherwise, then please present your case.
konnor.crewe
@Throbert McGee: What is outdated is the policy that people are required to show proof that they’ve *had* two surgeries in order to legally change their gender marker, not whether or not surgery is a legitimate part of transition. The fact is that not everyone makes the SAME choice with regard to surgery because not all transgender people are the same. Trans men, for example, frequently only have one surgery vs. two. So to ask us to have two surgeries is outdated. It shouldn’t be the surgery we get or the number of surgeries we get that qualifies us as gender non conforming. There are also those who have medical conditions who cannot get a surgery, but are still gender non conforming. So therefore, requiring them to have a surgery is unfairly punitive. They are relegated to a life of unhappiness because they cannot legally change their gender because there is a medical condition in the way of a physical change even though they can still socially change everything else including body language, hair, clothes, etc. They may pass in every other respect except that their government does not respect their status??? That’s unfair and outdated. So your argument is faulty because you don’t have all of the information.
konnor.crewe
@masc4masc: Referring to a child as “it” is both abusive, inappropriate and transphobic.
kerinalove
In reference to the success of this child being able to move forward in his life with his identity, I am pleased. So many children have identity crisis’ as it is, finding their place in this big, mostly mean and judge “mental” world. In regards to those who seem uneducated on child development and want to believe this is lack of parental guidance, shame on you. Children are smarter than you think, and if you are a parent, I have a feeling you’re raising them like they’re your property and not individuals.
masc4masc
@corvaspikenard: u think being the only trans kid at school is gonna “save a whole lot of grief and social torture”? ur delusion is showing….again. even in the picture shown, this girl looks sad and isolated.
corvaspikenard
@masc4masc: Um, dude, trans people remain trans whether we transition or not. Do you think by not transitioning our lives are somehow better?
The opposite is true.
Pre-transition our suicide rates are close to 50%. As transition progresses, suicide rates drop dramatically and mental health issues go away.
How about we just tell gay kids to stop being gay, so they won’t be persecuted?
Oh wait, that’s exactly what people used to suggest and now you’re applying the same broken argument to trans kids.
If I show you a picture of sad gay kid who gets bullied, would you recommend he stops being gay because it makes him sad and isolated?
ait10101
Proud to be a Canadian. Wow, there are a lot of haters spewing their hate here. Go away, shew, shew.
masc4masc
@corvaspikenard: “Pre-transition our suicide rates are close to 50%”
sounds like a problem that solves itself. =P
corvaspikenard
@masc4masc: You failed to address my argument in any way, so my point still stands.
Also, you sound just like this guy with your comment. I suppose you advocate for gay kids to kill themselves to solve their problems too?
applicant120305815
I’m thrilled for Wren that he was able to obtain an accurate birth certificate.
However, I feel compelled to provide some relevant background information and correct some misinformation.
Here is the legal background as to how this story came to be:
I spent the last three years challenging Alberta’s surgery requirement in Court under Canada’s federal constitution, and I won. It was a difficult case and it was not a foregone conclusion. I only managed to win because I put in years of research and hard work, writing compelling briefs and giving persuasive oral argument. Alberta opposed me rigorously at every step of the way. I had no help from anyone at any time and I created the high-level legal strategy myself, wrote all the materials myself, and appeared in Court on my own behalf. When I started planning the case, every province required surgery. My position was considered a fringe one and, as a result, no one was interested in helping me with the case. As a result, I learned the law and did it entirely myself.
I was wholly successful in the litigation. The decision was released on April 22, 2014 and is reported as C.F. v. Alberta (Vital Statistics), 2014 ABQB 237, and available online at http://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/doc/2014/2014abqb237/2014abqb237.html
Since that judgment (April 22, 2014), surgery has not been required to amend the sex designation on a birth certificate in Alberta. Because I was the person who brought the lawsuit (not Wren), I was the first person to obtain a new birth certificate without surgery. The sole legal basis for the amendment of Wren’s birth certificate was the judgment in my lawsuit.
I’m thrilled that I was able to make Alberta a better place. The judgment in my case was the first time any court in Canada has considered the rights of transgender people under the constitution, and in a way, it was an honour that I was able to bring the case. And I am very pleased that my victory allows many other people, including Wren, to update their birth certificates too.
Here is some news coverage reporting on my successful lawsuit: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/edmonton/Judge+rules+transgender+woman+charter+rights+breached/9768709/story.html
For any other transgender Albertans who might be reading this but have not been aware of my case for the last two months — go ahead and apply to amend your birth certificate without surgery. You have been able to do so for two months now.
~ C.F., [email protected]
P.S. I posted an earlier comment but it did not go through, so I am trying again.
corvaspikenard
@applicant120305815: You are a hero; thank you for all your hard work 🙂
masc4masc
@corvaspikenard: if they’re as annoying as u, absolutely! and by all means, let ur point stand. i never tried to take ur opinion away from u. ur the one who obsesses over anything i say, not the other way around. u already know my stance. this little girl has awful parents. it’s just so sad. =(
cymboru
@masc4masc: I created an account just to ask this. Is there a particular reason you are being such a closed minded dick? If you are so transphobic, why did you come to this clearly trans-supportive website at all? This has nothing to do with “playing musical chairs with their genders” and everything to do with allowing somebody some form of emotional security without costly surgery.
HowCanUKnow
I’ve created an account so I can answer to all of you asking “How can he/she know such important things at such a young age”. So, maybe this’ll be a longer comment, and I’m sorry about that. Also, I’d like to apologize for my bad English, since English is a language we only learn at schools.
I’m a 31 years old transgender male. I come from a country in Europe, where, if you don’t act up to society given gender roles then you’re, well, an outcast. I’ve knew it since the day I became aware of myself as a person on this world – since I was 3 or 4 years old, can’t remember exactly, just like all of you knew whether you’re a boy or a girl and what toys you want to play with. At first, you don’t think about that, you think it’s a part of your childish imagination. Later on you think it’s something that’ll just go away, because everyone has a certain type of a crazy phase during their childhood period. Then you realize it’s something that will not go away, it’s just who you are. And you find out who you are in some s*x related books (there was no Internet back then to ask Google about it, and the term transgender was something not familiar to me). Then you get aware of the situation you’ll be at if you come out and say loudly who you are. Then you live your life acting the way you want (cutting your hair, wearing men’s clothes) and think that, when the time comes, you’ll be able to do what society expects you to do, aka get married and give birth to a few kids, while in fact you’re the one wanting to make kids, not give birth to them. And that time came sooner than you’ve expected, and you realize it’s just something you can’t do, because it’s against your nature, and against everything who you are, and you feel bad and repulsive about that. At that point you decide to live your life the way you want to, not the way society wants you to (like most of you do).
Why is this certificate so important? Because not many transgender people feel comfortable going through transition, aka medical intervention, because we’re talking about years and years of hormone therapy, and many surgical interventions. I haven’t got through the transition, not sure if I ever will. But, if you’d pass by me on the street, you’d think that I’m a biological male. However, if you’d ask me for my ID, then you’d make faces, and ask questions, and making me feel uncomfortable and ashamed of myself, just because you can’t understand it, (n)or except it. I have felt this way numerous times before, and I’ve stopped giving a damn about it, although it can still hurt sometimes. However, many trans people can’t handle that pressure of not being able to be who you really are because society has “rules”, so they choose to take their own lives instead. How would you feel if “normal” society came up with some new rules and forced you to be in a certain groups based on your, for example, the way you cut your hair, or your excess pounds, or the way you dress, or just about anything about you that could be defined as “not normal” by someone who thinks about themselves as normal. Still, you have to be aware of one thing, if you’re overweight (for example) that is something you’ve chosen. On the other hand, we haven’t chosen to be born with one gender’s brain, and the other gender’s reproductive parts.
I hope this helped you a bit. Thanks
inbama
@sprocket:
“Excellent!! We are our brains, not our genitals.”
Then maybe you should stop obsessing about gender and do something useful like study physics.
handofgod
@HowCanUKnow: “Still, you have to be aware of one thing, if you’re overweight (for example) that is something you’ve chosen.”
No actually, it isn’t. Not all the time. Thinking that way paves the way for fat-shaming. Sometimes things happen. I know a girl who used to be 115 pounds before she began to have lung problems – she had to start taking medication for her lungs, and that medication made her gain weight over time. She is now about 250 pounds. Does she deserved to be heckled and bitched at for her “choice to be fat”?
If one really thinks it’s a choice to be overweight I highly suspect that they are not overweight themselves and have never been, and they probably don’t have many or any friends who are. If you have a friend who is overweight, ask them when they chose to be overweight. Ask them the day, the time, the year. Seriously. Do it. See what answer you get.
HowCanUKnow
@handofgod: No, she does not deserve to be shamed at any kind. Did I say that? Obesity is not always a choice yes, but being transgender is NEVER a choice, and as for me, I was talking about choices. But no one should be abused and shamed, nor the ones who’ve made choice, nor the ones who haven’t. My comment would turn into a novel if I’ve tried to clarify all the things at once. And yes, I do have some overweight friends. For example, one of my friends was always complaining about him being overweight and not looking like “one of those models”. But still, he was only complaining, without changing his eating habits, without doing any exercises, without doing anything but sitting all day at a computer and complaining about being overweight. In my opinion, he, in this particular case, did make a choice. And that’s what I was referring to when I was talking about “chosen” obesity. It was never my intention to hurt someone’s feelings, and I apologize if that’s the case here.
I’m sorry for your friend, hope she’s OK now.
libertyfelix
Nice symbolically.
Birth Certificates might be an onerous fraud as used as financial instruments.
Beware.
Praise and celebration to identity assertion, confirmation and sovereignty~!
KaiEr
I’m sorry, but gender roles are a learned behavior, and therefore a choice. Your biology is/was not a choice. Now, in the case of being born with both sets of genitalia, I can understand this with no problem – aside from that… sorry, it’s simply a choice. Does that mean I have a problem with someone choosing that, not in the least.
The issue I have is in cases in which this is going to infringe on the rights of others. The moment someone fails to inform their perspective partner, red-flag. The moment male genitalia enters the ladies room where young girls might be – red flag.
Just because you have come to grips with your confusion, and made a choice regarding gender roles, does not mean that you have the right to subject others to that confusion in every situation.
I’m 100% FINE with people living their lives the way in which they see fit – sincerely. But the fact is that there are going to be abnormalities in every aspect of life, wishing for them to be accepted is fine, but it does not detract from their being abnormalities. If a Japanese businessman wishes to marry his anime pillow, more power to him, but please don’t sit here and expect the rest of the world to accept it as “normal”. It’s not.
Now before someone comes out and bashes me by saying this is the same mentality which was used in the case of homosexuality – the idea of being born that way should be a specific enough distinction from that old argument and what I have stated here.
The fact is, there is no difference between the Japanese businessman who wishes to marry his pillow and someone claiming to be “Transgender”.
No matter how light an Japanese woman may bleach her skin, have plastic surgery to widen her eyes, have larger breasts implanted, dye her hair or change her lifestyle to that of a white New Yorker, it might eventually grant her the term as a New Yorker (if she moves there)… she is in no way going to be Caucasian, no matter how much surgery she has.
And while I’m fine with her doing such, the moment she marries someone under the guise of being white, and pops out a few Asian children, she has tread right smack on the rights of someone else.
If you think I’m wrong – go into the hospital and mark off the sex you wish to associate, without informing them of being transgendered. While that might not cause a problem if you go there for a common cold, it could be drastic for many other instances.
Polexia
@kmac625 @RDenner0183 @ingyaom @dastels
@SirBroad: I agree; @dastels read the article at 11:20 am before it had been updated, so he/she was correct in their assessment of the error. Obviously it was an error because it was corrected later. There was no need for the others to say @dastels was a “sloppy reader” as it simply exposed themselves as not having caught the update.
People just seem to enjoy being vicious.
wonderland82901
Just a little FYI a child’s brain associates gender between the ages of 3 and 5. They are too young for this to just be a choice. The statistics on transgender suicide or attempted suicide are appalling. Kudos to the parents that love their children for who they are, not who they want them to be.
abcd1234
@KaiEr: Wow, you used a lot of big words there, but all I really got out of it was: “I don’t understand this thing, so I’m going to use BS pseudo-science to tell everyone how right I am, then I’ll fervently explain how it’s ok, because I’m totally not a bigot.”
You are confusing ‘socially acceptable gender expression’ as a learned behavior, with the actual fundamental differences that exist between the genders. You hit the nail on the head when you said “Your biology is/was not a choice.” Yes, that’s exactly the problem, thank you for expressing it so succinctly. There is actual, provable, scientific evidence that not only are the brains of the two genders measurably different (which we’ve known for awhile now), but that trans folks are born with a brain that is measurably one gender, and a body that physically expresses another.
Your insistence on your “acceptance” of all things “not normal” is based on a flawed argument. …and more than a little condescending.
Shiru
@KaiEr:
The flaw with your entire post is that being transgender is not a choice. That is a scientifically proven fact.
http://www.care2.com/causes/study-shows-transexuals-may-display-brain-differences.html
Why would anyone chose to feel out of place in their own body? Why would anyone chose to be expected their whole life to be something their not? The transgender condition is a biological reality.
The birth certificate has nothing to do with hiding the facts from potential partners, or even doctors (this is the reason why people have emergency contacts, who could tell the doctors about conditions like that). It’s just to protect people against discrimination in terms of housing, employment, and all those issues. Because it shouldn’t matter to them what’s in someone’s pants – yet it does.
Also, I really hate this argument that this is going to somehow allow perverts to sneak into women’s restrooms, because transgenders have protection in a lot of areas and they’ve had this protection for a long time and there aren’t any reported cases of women being harassed by people claiming to be trans; in areas without that protection though, there are a lot of cases of transgenders being harassed by other people. Transgender people have to jump through so many hoops, get so many doctors and therapists to sign off saying that their condition is “legitimate” – why would a pervert who wants to peak at women spend months and months, not to mention the money, just for that? All it does is allow people to go into the bathroom, do their business, hopefully wash their hands, and leave without having any problems. That’s it. A pervert’s gonna be a pervert whether they claim to be transgender or not; obviously if someone’s doing inappropriate things they’ll still be punished for it! And honestly a public restroom is a stupid place to do that anyway!
annedrew19
@Brakechute:
Many trans people choose not to have surgery because of the cost, (it costs tens of thousands of dollars, and if your insurance doesn’t cover any of it, that’s all out of your pocket) functionality, (the new genitals may not work as well) health issues, etc. They should still be legally recognized as their gender, though.
handofgod
@abcd1234: Look up David Reimer and Dr. Money. It might be an interesting point the next time you run into a moron like KaiEr. Dr. Money thought the same thing, that it was possible to “raise a boy like a girl” because he thought that gender was all environmental, that gender identity is something one can learn. He was unequivocally wrong. His patient, David Reimer, killed himself.
Jascee
@masc4masc:
Whhhhooooa. Back the heck up.
I wasn’t sure if you were a troll or just another face whom openly expresses their opinion with poor backing.
But with this particular comment, I sincerely hope you’re really just here to try and rile people up.
Because, no matter your stance, that statement is some gross misconduct.
corvaspikenard
@Jascee: He (masc4masc) has made it clear with that statement that he wants trans people to kill themselves. He is the very definition of ‘transphobic bigot’.
That he is allowed to continue commenting reflects extremely poorly on Queerty.
vive
@Brakeshute, so you weren’t always gay, were you? How would you have liked it if someone told you that you had no right to claim a gay identity as an adolescent?
vive
@KaiEr, even if gender identity were a choice, can you explain why we shouldn’t all have the right to make that choice?
I always wonder how conservatives claim to defend choice as a basic freedom when it comes to, say, whether people should be required to have health insurance or whether they may choose to pay their workers abusive slave labor wages, yet when it comes to gender identity, sexuality, or even birth control, all of a sudden freedom of choice goes out the window.
masc4masc
@cymboru: I’m such a dick that u created an account just to ask me questions; what does that make u?
@Jascee: It’s called a joke (hence the smiley). Lighten up. But I do seriously believe this is pure child abuse. I stand by original comment.
masc4masc
@KaiEr: You’re exactly right, especially on the race thing. I’m pretty sure “racial dysphoria” will eventually be the new agenda. People will be wanting to change their legal docs to whatever race they feel like in their head. Guys that look like Chris Rock will be walking around saying they’re white, having gov’t docs changed to say white, etc. And we’ll all be expected to play along or be accused of racism.
Jascee
@masc4masc:
I’m all for jokes, but pardon, that’s a folly. It wasn’t appropriate to make, even retaliatory.
And, in the interest of being perfectly honest and fair.
I really couldn’t care less if you do stand by it. Feel free, it’s your right to do so and I don’t aim to change that.
However, I will say in regards to it being “influential”, your ‘stance’ has left me wanting for details and evidence. Really, even a well thought out hypothesis would suffice, but all I’ve seen from you is baseless conjecture and defensive quips.
I’ve seen plenty of cases and research shed light towards the contrary of what you’ve stated. But very little, so far, to convince me otherwise. Because of this, I can’t help but dismiss it as most others have already.
So, in short:
With all due respect, believe what you want, but I sho ain’t buyin’ it.
(And don’t ever quit your day job to become a comedian.)
vive
@masc4masc, Can you enlighten us as to which “gov’t docs” indicate your race in the U.S.? Or are you referring to your imaginary right wing utopia?
masc4masc
@Jascee: Hey buddy, I really couldn’t care any less about what u disagree with or dismiss. If u have an issue with the opinion I expressed, that’s your problem. All I’ve seen from u is a baseless psychoanalysis. So in short, and with all due respect, don’t you ever quit your day job to become a psychologist.
@vive: Sorry to burst ur bubble, but I’m registered as democrat. Some full form birth certificates state both mother and father’s race (thereby stating race of the kid). Obama’s certificate is pretty public and has the races of both his folks listed. So u could have a black guy that wants his certificate ‘corrected’ to show two white parents in order to keep him from committing suicide over society not formally recognizing him as the way he feels in his head.
corvaspikenard
@masc4masc: “All I’ve seen from u is a baseless psychoanalysis.”
This purported “baseless psychoanalysis” is backed by the American Psychiatric Association and the American Medical Association.
But by all means, present your credential to us and prove you know better than both those organisations 🙂
annedrew19
@KaiEr:
1. Being trans is not a choice. Brain gender is determined in the womb and does not always correlate with genitals. Plus having both sets of genitals is not the only kind of intersex. Some people have XXY chromosomes, atypical levels of estrogen/testosterone, underdeveloped genitals, etc. But discrimination is. You claim you’re fine with trans people, but everything else you say pretty much contradicts that.
2. Last time I checked, women’s public bathrooms have stalls for privacy. No little children are going to see a transwoman’s genitals. In fact, they’re much more likely to see a male baby’s genitals when Mommy’s changing him on the changing table, since many changing tables in women’s bathrooms aren’t inside of stalls. Will that scar them for life?
3. Homosexuality is not a choice. You’re right there. But being trans is also not a choice. You seem to be confusing trans people with crossdressers/drag kings/queens. Crossdressers are cisgender (people who identify solely as their birth sex) people who enjoy dressing up as the opposite sex as a hobby in their free time, but do not identify as the opposite sex in their daily lives. Drag kings and queens are cisgender people who dress as the opposite sex as their career, such as working in a drag bar or in drag shows, but do not identify as the opposite sex. Being a crossdresser or drag performer is a choice, just as all other hobbies and careers are.
hoot2hoot
@masc4masc: I’m glad other people are taking the time to show you what you really are. I just wanted to call you a twat and be done with you because I couldn’t see myself wasting time on such ignorance. But I’m glad other people have. You should listen and learn because you are misinformed, misrepresenting, and misaligned. Step off.
masc4masc
@corvaspikenard: No Corva, I meant Jascee’s attempt at psychoanalyzing me. However, I already told u the associations u keep mentioning also acknowledge factitious disorders that are too subjective to conclusively prove whether they really exist or not. Acknowledging a person isn’t dealing with a full deck and conclusively proving it’s happening because of some biological malfunction are two different things.
corvaspikenard
@masc4masc: So that’s a ‘no’ to providing credentials that would prove you know better. 🙂
masc4masc
@corvaspikenard: U still don’t get it. I’m not criticizing the associations. The way YOU are trying to use their acknowledgement of gender issues doesn’t work. Can’t make it much clearer.
tothineownselfbetrue
I’m involved in a project created by artist Jacqui Beck of Seattle, Washington, called Gender Personal (www.genderpersonal.org). When Jacqui’s son came out as trans, Jacqui used her painting to delve into the feelings she was having (feeling she describes as “messy”). She also interviewed 7 other transgender people and responded with paintings and poems for each person. This is now on public exhibit and getting acclaim from trans and mainstream communities. I urged Jacqui to let me work for the project because, to me, she was acknowledging that gender issues are complex (non-binary) and highly individual, and we cannot understand gender in others without looking deeply and honestly gender within ourselves. I guess I feel that way about most things in life.
I am learning so much and, as the project photographer, I am getting to meet many trans people, hearing their stories and their perspectives. I’m finding out that even a lot of well-intended depictions of trans people are, in fact, stereotypes that are not really true. Some trans people know they’re in the wrong body at age 2. Some not until their teens. Some (actually most) have a rough time being accepted by peers and/or family, but not all. Some (especially younger trans people) discover that their peers are almost universally accepting. Some trans people identify strongly as male or female. Others identify as both. Or neither. Some are gay. Some are straight. Some are bi, and others are asexual. I am seeing that these are all different aspects of who we are, and all combinations are possible. As humans we crave binary distinctions, but that’s not how nature works.
An important lesson for me, too, is that yes, a lot of trans people (but not all!) have had the experience of becoming suicidal and, if they don’t kill themselves, they reach a point where coming out is the only alternative to suicide, because to remain closeted is just unbearable. I don’t romanticize that predicament, but I have to admit that I, as a cis-gendered, straight middle class male, had privileges that insulated me from a choice that’s actually a good one for anybody to make: the choice to be genuine. For me, it was pretty comfortable to fit in, to pass. But in doing so I sacrificed some of who I am. I would have liked to do more with my art and music, would have liked to be more effeminate even though I feel mostly like a straight male (whatever THAT means!).
I suggest we not get too caught up with the positions of bigots, trolls, or whatever. Understand that our intolerance of them is not all that different from their intolerance of trans, gay, gender-queer, Black, Asian, what-have-you. It’s not bad to be afraid of people who are different from you. What’s unfortunate is when you become intolerant of those differences. Much more productive to become curious, learn about them, and be willing to learn about yourself as well!