Because so many proud homophobes are being outed as homosexuals themselves! This makes the idea of feeling cool by throwing around the word “faggot” less cool, because it probably means you’re gay like George Alan Rekers.
Charles M. Blow, the New York Times‘ “visual” op-ed columnist, consults SUNY Stonybrook sociology professor Dr. Michael Kimmel, and Cornell University human development chairman Ritch Savin-Williams to find out why the latest Gallup poll shows more Americans than ever believe it’s “morally acceptable” to be gay — and why (straight?) men are outpacing (straight?) women in that count.
The first theory suggests that as more gays come out, more would-be homophobes realize they know a gay person, and realize we aren’t all just a bunch of prancing nelly bottoms. The second theory claims men are growing more comfortable with “the other,” just like white men did with black men. But the third theory is, far and away, our favorite:
Virulent homophobes are increasingly being exposed for engaging in homosexuality. Think Ted Haggard, the once fervent antigay preacher and former leader of the National Association of Evangelicals, and his male prostitute. (This week, Haggard announced that he was starting a new “inclusive” church open to “gay, straight, bi, tall, short,” but no same-sex marriages. Not “God’s ideal.” Sorry.) Or George Rekers, the founding member of the Family Research Council, and his rent boy/luggage handler. Last week, the council claimed that repealing “don’t ask, don’t tell” would lead to an explosion of “homosexual assaults” in which sleeping soldiers would be the victims of fondling and fellatio by gay predators. In fact, there is a growing body of research that supports the notion that homophobia in some men could be a reaction to their own homosexual impulses. Many heterosexual men see this, and they don’t want to be associated with it. It’s like being antigay is becoming the old gay. Not cool.
It remains to be seen how long it’ll take for this phenomenon to trickle down to high school students, who will stop calling skinny quiet kids “faggots” because it makes them look gay. Yeah, that’s right: Calling other people gay makes you look gay, and that’s gay. No homo.
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
alan brickman
Straight guys use these words not because their gay..but because queeny gays and angry ugly feminist types are always letting them know how awful they are ….all the time!….
ron
@alan brickman:
You make no sense.
Black Hispanic
I bet the 3 white guys in the picture are bottoms.
patrick
I wouldn’t know if any of these boys are gay or not, but I thought zinc oxide went out with the Nixon administration.
Chris2XS
Actually, most high school/college aged guys I know are a lot more tolerant and accepting than their “wiser” counterparts. He’ll, my high school had a gay prom king, twice!
Kieran
American culture has traditionally portrayed homosexuality as synonymous with weak effeminacy. “Real men” could NEVER be sexually attracted to another man and if you were, you certainly didn’t admit it openly. The old unattractive gay stereotypes, while still sadly prevalent in TV and movies, are gradually being replaced by new images of gay men that are more positive and attractive. Ending the stigma surrounding homosexuality is what the media should be dedicated to….but so rarely is. Playing on swishy stereotypes is so much easier and the straights love it.
Vegas Tea Room
Only faggots use the word faggot.
How true, how true.
Hilarious
Tuned out at “just like white men did with black men.”, you have no idea how ridiculous that statement is for a lot of reasons.
Ian
@Hilarious: I disagree. From a sociological standpoint it makes a lot of sense. Crack open a Sociology text sometime and see how what are considered normative values are usually generational in context.
Jimmi
@Kieran: So I guess it means that we Gender Queens and Effeminate Queens should go hide now?
j
@Jimmi:
Don’t let the door hit you in the ass on your way out…..
Magro
@Jimmi: once your surgeries are approved and done with, and you get the right hormones, you’ll be a woman and won’t have to be gender noncomforming.
Jimmi
@Magro: Your ignorance is astounding.
Jimmi
@Chris2XS: The kids are way mnre cooler and less shame based.
Magro
@Jimmi: i think the govenment should pay for your surgeries and hormones. it’s to expensive for most people to afford alone. Good luck!
Andrew
Wow. The level of sexism, ignorance and general homophobia here (amongst gays themselves!) is disturbing. The fact is, Gay people have a very vested interest in fighting against gender norms. Does that mean FORCING people to do something? No. What I mean is that, — Gender roles, or ‘norms’ should be on a sliding scale, and no one should be push any which way. Everyone should be free to be whom they are on this scale, regardless of ‘societal expectations’.
But the attitude I indeed sometimes hear from other Gay people…the mentality that more effeminate gay people are somehow ‘less’ is disgusting and JUST as bad, if not worse, than the mentality from Focus on the Family and other right-wing hate groups that Gay people are worth less than straight people.
Now. Please tell me this was a joke, before I loose my lunch.
Simka Nichols
“would-be homophobes realize they know a gay person, and realize we aren’t all just a bunch of prancing nelly bottoms.”
Unfortunately, use of this type of reasoning reinforces sexist, hetero-normative notions and still denigrates all who do not fit into the role of that which might be defined “hyper-masculine” by suggesting that those who might be hyper-feminine (male or female or other), as “just a bunch of” whatever term you wish to use to denote emasculation.
Michael Buchanan
@alan brickman: And here you go folks. A perfect example.
Magro
@Simka Nichols: Could you say that again in English please? i don’t have a degree in Queer Studies.
Simka Nichols
@Andrew: I agree, Andrew. See my first response to this article.
Devaluing that which is traditionally regarded as feminine is no better than devaluing that which is traditionally regarded as masculine.
Articles like this tend to consciously or unconsciously promote hetero-normative ideals about masculinity and femininity that de-value (traditional) femininity, possibly without intending to do so, but that accomplish it nonetheless.
Simka Nichols
@Magro: see comment 20.
If that isn’t succinct enough, go take a class . . . in English.
Simka Nichols
My point is that “gender non-conformists” should not be belittled, period. There is no rational or scientific reason for it – only prejudice.
Hylomorphic
@Magro: You don’t need any particular education to understand Simka. If there are terms there you don’t understand, then just Google them. Complaining about perfectly cogent English like that just makes you look pig-headed and willfully ignorant.
Jon
My high school had a pretty good understanding that if you make fun of someone for being gay then you are gay. We as high schoolers just assumed you were gay. Now I know it might have some fear or learned hate too. Really I think the schools of America will come a long way quickly.
TonyD
Maybe the next step will be closing the divide between ethnic minorities and LGBTQs- there’s distrust and anger on both sides and being a member of both minorities, it’s frustrating to see each side scream for equality but spew ignorance about the other side; you won’t get anywhere until you learn EVERYONE is unconditionally equal with no exception. Being the token Latino guy at an all white gay men party, I’ve heard some stupid shit and I’ve heard equally stupid shit being the only open gay man amongst Latinos. I’ve asked both sides, “Why are you so angry?” and got the same response, “They don’t deserve respect until they show me some first.” Guess what? No one wins…
Magro
Thanks now i kinda get it.
I unfortunately was mistaking your arguments as being post-Constructivist, with memes derived from Derrida as filtered through later works of Foucault, and reurposed by Lacan. But I was reading too much and too little into it.
Feel free to go to youtube to see my video on “l’Etre Gai antérieur le Néant asexuel post-moderne”.
i’m sure you’ll enjoy it. I rip about nineteen MEMES to shreds in a neo-semiotic frenzy. Plus I totally stick up for Asexuals to be embraced as fellow Queers.
Based on what you’re writing, then the guy who called himself “Straight Acting Eric” and got raked over the coals for it, should recalibrate his moniker into “Heteronormatively-conforming behaving Eric”
Lets also change Eric to ERIQ to better celebrate his Queerness.
Lamar
My theory is that because of the large amount of gays on TV, movies, music and so on people are reevaluating their stance on sexuality as they become desensitized to gays rather than having the knee-jerk reaction to anything not common in society.
Magro
Sorry — comment #26 was directed to @Hylomorphic: @Simka Nichols:
Forrest
Charles Blow is solidly supportive of us but the latter part of his column bugged me. Once again he equated gay mens entire identity with anal sex.
As hard as it is for some straight people to believe not every gay guy does anal. Heteros certainly seem more fixated on it then we do and our entire being is linked to it.
Heterosexuals entire lives are not defined by vaginal intercourse.
(for the record I love getting fucked but know plenty of guys who hate it and lead very happy sex lives focused on oral and intense foreplay and masturbation sessions)
j
@Forrest:
TMI……
Zach
@Forrest:
“Once again he equated gay mens entire identity with anal sex.”
No he didn’t. He pointed out that many straights are squeamish of sexual relations between two men. Reporting popular perceptions is different from making the argument. And the rest of the article makes it clear that increasingly, straights are able to separate private sexual activity from who a person is.
Phil
Magro, throwing philosophy terms together to seem smart does not help you. In fact, it does philosophy a disservice. It makes you a sophist. Lacan and post-constructivism has little, if anything, to do with traditional masculine, heteronormative values. Next time try not to come off as such an ass; dismissing queer studies as flippant is just as bad as dismissing philosophy frivolous.
Bisexual Vampire
There is a lot of masculine gay or bisexual men that’s bottoms. I am a masculine attractive white bisexual male. I prefer dating or making love to masculine attractive men regardless of race. Too many effeminate gay men, drag queens, and transsexuals give all gay men a bad name. Most people think gay men act like girls/women and wear women clothing. I am totally versatile and I like being both a top and bottom. Some prefer to body contact and jerking off and that’s cool too.
gerry
We wouldn’t be where we are today, without a bunch of “nelly guys and drag queens” who had the balls to stand up one night in NYC to the abuses of the police at a bar called Stonewall.
Andrew
@Bisexual Vampire: Why do they have to give you a “bad name”? What if they turned it around and said you were the one giving them a bad name? They’re giving you a bad name because of what? Cause they don’t share your mannerisms? Are you fucking kidding me? Do you realize how close you sound to the people who call us sexual deviants and ‘less than’ right now?
I’m probably not ‘masculine’ in the traditional sense, but I’m also not necessarily ultra-effeminate either. I’m personally sexually attracted to people whom aren’t on either extreme. That being said, I’ve known plenty of cross dressers & transsexuals, and while I’m not sexually attracted to them that doesn’t make them any less than wonderful friends.
You ask people to accept your sexuality and yet you yourself aren’t willing to accept other peoples differences? Wow, open your eyes.
ron
@Bisexual Vampire:
You sound like a real piece of work! And you come complete with awful grammar……
coocookachu
@Magro:
“Based on what you’re writing, then the guy who called himself ‘Straight Acting Eric’ and got raked over the coals for it, should recalibrate his moniker into ‘Heteronormatively-conforming behaving Eric'”
actually, i think the simple “masculine” would suffice — since that is how he wants to identify. i don’t see any reason to invoke a separate sexuality as though it is something that must be emulated, unless you are purposefully trying to denigrate others. it’s kind of the difference between identifying as “white” versus “white supremacist”
Bisexual Vampire
@Ron & Andrew, did I strike a nerve with your being girly men? This if not a fucking English class, therefore if you going to come at me, please come correct. That was typical of a faggot to bring on English grammer on a fucking blog. There are many masculine and bisexual men that don’t like drag queen, transsexuals, and sissy acting men. You fuckers are freaks and should be placed on an island out of sight.
coocookachu
@Bisexual Vampire:
i wonder what could have struck a nerve? maybe your desire to eliminate human beings because they want to be happy with themselves? placed on an island out of sight sounds like a great final solution. props.
ron
@Bisexual Vampire:
Thank you for proving our point.
eagledancer
coocookachu
@Bisexual Vampire:
i wonder what could have struck a nerve? maybe your desire to eliminate human beings because they want to be happy with themselves? placed on an island out of sight sounds like a great final solution. props.
*******
This is wonderful! By comment 39, we’ve managed to come full circle from the original article 🙂 People vent at each other and want the other eliminated. Our elders on the reservation tell us “When you point your finger at someone, three other fingers point back at you.” Of course, Freud calls this “projection” and Jung describe the interactional pattern as “the shadow.”
Jon Bon Jovi
I agree, these men do look like queens and all 3 are probably total bottoms. There bodies are ok, but they have skinny calfs. I too prefer masculine men like Alex O’Loughlin, Brad Pitt, Liam Neeson, Doug McClure.
Jon Bon Jovi
For the record, Doug McClure is deceased. This man had the sexist blue eyes with a big smile. He played on the Virginian western televison series back in the early sixties.
ron
@eagledancer:Of course you are correct…..That is why it is entirely possible that Bisexual Vampire is a 300 lb. gay man lounging at home right now, dressed in fishnet stockings, sipping a wine spritzer, smoking a Virginia Slim !
Andrew
@Bisexual Vampire: …Not worth responding to. Have fun with your hateful life. I certainly know I’d have a hard time being content with that going on in my life.
Andrew
@eagledancer: Incorrect. No one here is calling for any extermination of the other side besides BV. Please don’t confuse the difference between two sensible viewpoints with the difference between sanity and being fucked up.
Forrest
At any rate this poll deprives FRC of their “50% of America thinks we are immoral talking point”. I am sure they will just ignore it though and keep lying. That’s what they are best at.
Forrest
Lots of cool straight guys I know make a point of being nice to their girlfriends gay pals.
Whether their BF is anti-gay is a good litmus test for girls.
j
@Forrest:
And whether the girl’s BF is a closet mo is a good litmus test, too!
Jimmi
@Magro: Dear Margo, Yes, Sex Changes should be covered in a health care system. However, a Gender Queer is not a person who is changing genders–I am a man and a woman within myself and I don’t limit my expression to one gender. I embrace both.
Jimmi
@j: Bitter much?
Jimmi
@Bisexual Vampire: Someone should drive a stake through your heart.
Jon Bon Jovi
LOL@Jimmi
jeffree
Greater acceptance of LGBs is a positive trend. Unfortunatle hate-crimes against LGBTs seem to be on the rise in places where good records are kept.
Also, bullying (at schools) of kids perceived to be gay/ lesbian /gender conforming is still a big problem Suicide attempts by lgb teens continues to rise.
Cyber-bullying has led to several suicides too.
We still got lots of work to do !!
Bisexual Vampire
Gay Queens loves DRAMA. Your hating on me will not cause me to lose any sleep. When I wake up tomorrow, I am still an attractive masculine toned 35 year old white male. When most of you queens on here wake up, you will stilly be girly acting men. Sometimes the truth hurts.
jeffree
“Gender non-conforming” was what I meant.
Toby
@alan brickman:
I love how you call them ugly feminist and not Lesbians (although I do appreciate the “hidden” sexism).
Let me guess…you got a whole lot of gender issues going on…
Jesse Helms
Abomination!!!!
dvlaries
Mr. Blow’s Saturday morning column has already long been appointment reading with me.
While you’re there, you could do worse to read Bob Herbert and Gail Collins too.
And, if you don’t know already, we have a sturdy, fair friend in Leonard Pitts. Miami Herald, Sundays & Wednesdays.
Wood
wow.
i have never felt as bad about being gay as i am reading this comments section.. thanks guys.
Jesse Helms
You are welcome Wood. With a name like Wood, I see why you feel bad.
CONVERSATION CHAMBER
There tends to be a lot of wishful thinking when it comes to gay acceptance amongst younger people. In mass media, thanks largely in part to activist groups who’ll raise hell and call offenders to the carpet, it’s become pretty much unacceptable to spew overt homophobic rhetoric w/o seeming like a neanderthal. No one wants to be publically perceived as a bigot, because bigots are socially deemed ignorant, devolved and basically scum. However, from what I’ve seen I can’t say that real life always (or even usually) mirrors plastic PC acceptance when the camera’s aren’t rolling.
I’m almost 31 and recently went back to college. In one of my classes, I sat next to a kid who was fresh out of high school. Couldn’t have been no older than 18-19. Well one day, when another male classmate comes in and sits down, the kid nudges me and cynically asks if I thought the other guy was gay because his eyebrows looked arched. I said I didn’t know. Then a few weeks later, the same kid makes another under-his-breath comment about that same other classmate being queer to the guy sitting on the other side of him, and they chuckled out loud. That’s just one example. Another time I was at the gym in the locker room and saw a young guy loudly accuse another guy of being a faggot, because he was allegedly staring at him.
THIS is the “tolerant” younger generation coming up that I’m hearing so much about?!
Like I said, I’m 30…I’m the last wave of Gen-X and the first wave of the iGeneration; so I’d like to believe that I’m not THAT old. I was in HS during the middle 90s. Sure, back then there’d be maybe that *one* (I repeat: ONE) overtly effeminate gay boy who (because he was SUCH an extrovert and went out of his way to be chummy with people) the others didn’t too much mess with him…but the overall tone was still hostile, accusatory and negative when it came to guys liking other guys. Has much really changed since then? I’d like to think so, but I can’t say that I believe it has.
Fast forward fifteen years and I still hear a TON of homophobic comments, sneers and snickers from that supposedly more tolerant “younger” generation of teenagers and early 20-somethings.
Seems to me it’s only when ‘big brother’ is watching (and their homophobic views stand to be judged on a level massive enough that would allow others to feel superior by shunning such an obviously incorrect attitude) that all of the sudden you get hordes of “cool” heteros, who’re supposedly more accepting of gays. When there’s a group of ten 16-23 year old straight guys hanging out amongst themselves, however, I haven’t seen too many examples of there being a “cool” or receptive attitude toward the allegedly gay guy standing a few feet away from them. The most I see is a sort of guarded indifference that reads: “I won’t call you a faggot so long as you stay away from me.”
jeffree
@CONVERSATION CHAMBER:
I’m a few years behind you but I see/ hear the same snide remarks too. I’m on the 6 year college plan because I work full time & go to school part time, so I am a little older than some of my peers, but the out gays/ lesbians don’t mix much the str8 students. I have about 6 str8 women friends, and really the only straight guys I hang with are neighbors.
I chalk a lot of that separation up to just plain ignorance more than true homophobia, but I could be delusional !
@dvlaries: Agreed! Leonard Pitts is a very thoughtful writer. I’m not on my laptop with the links on it but if you have the link handy, please post it. Mr. Blow sometimes over generalizes but he def is worth reading.
Mike
In the UK there’s a nice little retort to use when people accuse you of being gay.
“takes one to know one”.
Even in the dimmest of homophobic light-bulb brains that usually sinks in fairly fast.
Cassandra
Jeffree, Conversation Starter
What you’ve described is an improvement over the behavior of het young men 25 – 30 years ago, when I was finishing high school/in college.
And from what even older gay men have said, the amount and kind of homophobia I saw in my teens and twenties is an improvement over what they saw.
Michael
@Bisexual Vampire:
Even the girliest drag queen is more of a man than you’ll ever be
jeffree
@Cassandra: I am hearing the same from my mentors. The homophobia is less rampant & overt now.
I still believe the stats that say someone who knows an out gay/ lesbian person is more likely to support LGB rights, because I’ve seen that with my own two eyes [the good one & the lazy one, included !!]
What’s still concerning to me is the bullying in schools: elem/ middle/ high. I’m not yet at a point in my life when I can directly help with that, but once I can, I will. Promise! Just trying to get other students to REGISTER to vote & then actually to vote takes up time. The attitudes in those surveys about generational differences in acceptance of LGBs don’t matter much unless they lead to us getting to the polls and involved.
My classmates are more interested in recycling plastic PETA than LGBT rights.
Those arent bad causes, but still……
I’ve said it before so I’ll say it again: I wish I had your gift with language, rhetoric, & knowlege of history, etc.
necokitty
@Bisexual Vampire: what the fuck is wrong with you? a few years ago the same type of things would about you by straight homophobic assholes. your one of those self hating god fearing republican gays aren’t you? one of the idiots that say the gay community isn’t ready for marriage? well as one bisexual to another go the fuck to hell, Have fun
truthteller
What is with the internalized shame and homophobia of some of the posters here?
Calling others, “bottoms”, to demean them or insult them is just plain stupid, ignorant and lacking self awareness and respect!
I suppose those trying to dehumanize those who look like “bottoms,” whatever that is, are tops…and if that is the case, shouldn’t you be ecstatic there are guys who like getting what you give them?
Check your misogynism and self-loathing at the door before making fools of yourselves. Better yet, get therapy.
You cannot expect the respect you deny others, period.
Andrew
@truthteller: The last part of that is going in my quote box, thanks.
PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS
One of the major reasons that there is so much more acceptance is that there are so many Gays visible in the media now. Once upon a time the number of Gays one could see except if you knew one was zero. There was simply no such thing as an openly Gay person. Gays were depicted as basicaly child molesting creeps waiting in the shadows looking to pounce and diddle your son.
These days there are out and open Gays all over the media. MTV has Gays on virtually every one of their shows. They are not portrayed as nellie little queens. But rather as what they actually are, kids who happen to be Gay. Real World case in point the Gays on that show are shown interacting and developing friendships with the other cast mates both male and female. They are not depicted as perverts simply looking to jump the other guys bones. There are plenty of open and succesfull Gays in every segment of society. Fortunately for us it creates a snowball efffect, persons who before had no role models to emulate simply stayed in the closet, many of them actually getting married to hide their sexuality. And the rightwing scumbags who are caught in the act help too. Persons see how much of a hyprocrite they are for rallying against all things Gay while sucking cock during their free time. We still got a long ways to go, even look at some of the posts on this thread. Survey after survey consistently show that as the age of respondents decreases, acceptance of all things Gay increases. We gots to wait till the old haters fcuk off and die (literaly!)……
PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS
PS: Elton John earned 1 million dollars last night performing at the wedding of Rush Windbag!
The whole Eminim brohaha a few years back ticked me off. But to perform for one of the most virulant homophobes in history is sickening.
WTF?
I think the arguments on this post elucidates a larger problem in this “community”. To wit, we are not as communal as so many would desperately hope in their attempts to further expand the now-nonsensical “alphabet soup”. While I’m all for tolerance and all should be free to pursue their own happiness, I think the LGBTQIAZ’:*&%12~KM has become a recipe for disaster. How productive do you think the March of Dimes would be if they suddenly began to incorporate several other groups with increasingly disparate ideologies? Not very, I suspect. The fact is that I, and doubtlessly many others, would disagree with some on here that our hard-earned tax dollars should go toward making certain individuals feel better about their physical appearance. We don’t all have the same goals or ideals. My advice: fight your battles, I’ll fight mine, and perhaps here and there we can find some common battles to fight together. But all of us should learn not to hate on each other because so and so is “effeminate” or because you think Mr. Such and Such exhibits “self-loathing” because he’s “masculine”. And at the same time, let us realize that because we tolerate differences – even support them – doesn’t mean we’re all one big happy family.
Bisexual Vampire
Most of you guys on here are a bunch of fat ugly sissy bottoms. Learn to act like real masculine men. You weren’t born women, therefore act like men. What a bunch of homo losers.
ron
@Bisexual Vampire:
I thought I told you to wait in the car.
Jimmi
@Bisexual Vampire: Darling, I am more man than you will ever be and more woman than you will ever get. Now be a good little troll and hobble back under the bridge you came from and read your Twilight books.
Jimmi
@PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS: Elton is unforgivable.
Bisexual Vampire
Ron and Jimmi, I know you both have 3 days to live. You need to go pick out the pink casket you will be buried in. The virus has caused you both to become insane.
ewe
Queerty: I am not even going to read this piece because all of you over there obviously think that gay men are under 30. There are more gay people over 30 than under. Your pretty pictures mean absolutely nothing. Obviously you think a couple of muscles reflect masculinity. Grow the fuck up.
Andrew
Can we just accept BV is a troll?
Don’t feed the troll, people.
ron
@Andrew:
I think she’s gone for now….probably out shopping for high heels with some girlfriends, and then catch a showing of Sex and the City 2.
D'oh, The Magnificent
Homophobia Going Underground
One of the first signs that bigotry is decreasing is when the bigot feels they are not able to be openly bigoted. By analogy, for race, decreasing discrimination started with the whole P.C. debate starting back as far as the 70s amongst college conservatives. “Oh, the liberals are seeking to prevent of from calling you nigger, blah, blah, blah.”
There’s nothing particularly original happening with gays as far as social phenomenon. What was once outrageous is becoming acceptable, and it takes time for that to filter through a society both over generations and even within generations. For lack of a better phrase, let’s call this the Overton Window.
What you call P.C. is the shifting of the overt level of acceptability that the article mentions. The article does not claim there are no bigots. It says that 50 percent is a shift in favor of decreasing bigotry and asks what explains it. That 50 percent means, there’s another 50 percent that doesn’t like gays.
Moreover, the other potential argument is that your anecdotes only serve to illustrate there is existing bigotry. As there are still racists against blacks too. Or people who are sexist. You name it. There is always going to be some who feel this way. You are never going to eliminate all hatred. The question is the degree to which it remains a problem in a given society.
D'oh, The Magnificent
Gaydar pings for straights who are comfortable with gays
This op/ed confirms a suspicion that I have had about a couple of really smart guys that I met in the last couple of years whom my gaydar suggested are gay or bi.
My friends would say, “They are just straight guys comfortable in their sexuality.” I’ve met guys who are comfortable in their sexuality, and I never suspected, even if they are attracted, that they are gay. And, yet, with these two guys, I always had that sense that there was a question mark.
I always thought may be they are smart enough not to act according to our stereotypes about what closet cases should be like.
“Maybe they are just smart enough not to overtly show any problems with gays because they realize how the social dynamic now works regarding being too overt in being hostile.”
I find the article interesting in that it implies that i may be right that a lot of closeted guys realize this dynamic too , and thus, my gaydar may be right.
P Smith
I would add a fourth reason, related to the third: Hypocrisy on sex crimes, not just on sexual behaviour. In recent decades, there is more and more reporting of sex crimes, of victims filing charges and lawsuits against their perpetrators. The allegations and stereotypes that have been made about gay men and women have turned out not just to be false, but often the complete reverse of what was being alleged.
As they do, more and more people are realizing that the claims of “predatory homosexuals” simply aren’t true, that the perpetrators of sex crimes are disproportionately heterosexual. Pedophilia has turned out to be an overwhelmingly straight crime (as reasearch by the APA has shown), and rape is known to be a crime of power, not sex (used by straight men to prove dominance).
I have forgotten the name and state where a bus driver, a fundamentalist christian and virulently anti-gay, adopted a girl to prevent gay men from adopting her. Within a year, the christian had been charged with raping and molesting the girl. (If anyone remembers where and who, mentioning that would be appreciated.)
Joe
@alan brickman: does someone need a hug? (since I don’t think anyone has wanted to touch you for a long long time)
pappy_mcfae
“I think the arguments on this post elucidates a larger problem in this “community”. To wit, we are not as communal as so many would desperately hope in their attempts to further expand the now-nonsensical “alphabet soup”.”
Yes, sir. Say it again. In striving to be all inclusive, the main issues become clouded in a swampy miasma of other issues, ancillary at best.
The biggest for-instance is abortion rights. Whatever my opinion is on this issue (a. none of my business since I’m a male; b. a necessity given this country’s fucked up image of morality), it is not a gay issue. Sorry!
I don’t have sex with women. I’m not going to make a baby. Why should I care about abortion rights? Yes, I support the fight for a woman to do with her body as she pleases..men for that matter, too.
However, abortion is NOT a gay issue. For the “community” to support it is for the community to put our real goals (repeal of DADT, marriage rights, first class citizenship) in jeopardy, and put even more religious scrutiny on us as a whole. I submit that even on its face, this extra scrutiny from the wingnuts is a really bad thing…and sets all of our goals back.
As to the topic at hand, who and what I on the streets or between the sheets is pretty much the same. I’m glad that at least there is a perception that we’ve come a long way, but I am not so sure we are as far along as we think. I hope the author is right, because I sure would love to see true civil rights for gay Americans before I shuffle loose this mortal coil.
As to the care and feeding of trolls, it’s nice to see others grinding them up and spitting them out. Perhaps that means I’ll be able to post here without having to shred trolls. Wouldn’t that be a joy and treasure???!!!
Vox
Homophobia isn’t going away. Hate crimes against GLBT increased in 2009 by 30% over 2008. Furthermore, all you have to do is look at the Internet to see that bigotry is alive and well. Post a gay-related story on any mainstream news blog, and the gay hate is often searing. I’m personally not comforted by the notion of homophobes being less at ease to speak their ills, because I know those ills are still there even if they aren’t broadcasting them as much. I like to know WHO my enemies are, and would rather they not smile in my face because it’s the “acceptable” thing to do, and then turn around and vote against me at the polls.
Jesse Helms
@Vox, yarnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!
Jesse Helms
@Ron & Jimmi, what virus to you two have? If it’s what I think, you guys need to make peace with God for salvation. A pink casket is too gay. Blue or gray would look masculine.
Jesse Helms
@Bisexual Vampire, what makes you think you are any different from the rest of these freaks? You are still a fudge packer.
ron
@Jesse Helms:
Are you experiencing ‘roid rage? Or are you really a 13 year old girl who discovered her closeted father’s computer? Either way, fuck off!
Forrest
What could be more masculine than homosexuality? All men all the time
D'oh, The Magnificent
@Forrest: Other cultures once believed this. It is only modern society that has come to view homosexuality as representative of femine. As in literally, the last 100 years at best. The greeks, for example, had a very different view of male sexuality and being a man. That was one of the things that annoyned me about 300. THere , they turned this strength once again into something to turn out straight males rather than something that was meant to convey strength.
ossurworld
I keep wondering what I’ve missed with all the hidden comments.
Andrew
@ossurworld: You’re free to view them at your whim, but it really does help filter out the garbage.
robert
@D’oh, The Magnificent:
actually, as a point of history, it’s is more likely that ancient greeks had a more complex relationship to sexuality. there is evidence that it was generally considered degrading to bottom if you were no longer young and under the tutelage of an older noble.
D'oh, The Magnificent
@robert: I am not getting into the specifics, because they don’t change the overall point that the overall impression was not that of the times we live in now. They hada very different view no matter how you slice it.
fbloss
I’ve said essentially this very thing for years: Those who scream the loudest have the most to hide. And Shakespeare said it best (to paraphrase): “Me thinks they do protest too much!”
Jonathan
@Michael Buchanan:
Magro
You’re the queer equivalent of a homo-hating asshole. Sneer at anyone you think isn’t butch enough. Shut up, faggot.
Jonathan
@Jesse Helms:
You should read the article – it says – those who use slurs are most likely gay themselves. “Fudge packer”? Grow the fuck up and fuck off.
pappy_mcfae
I forgot to subscribe, so I’m doing it now.
joe mcguire
@Jimmi: how about you get the f* out of a gay forum if ur bigoted idiocy is just going to troll around talking nonsense. you hetero(possibly closeted)-bible thumping monsters are the ones who have problems with people who couldnt care less about, and who shouldnt have to be affected by, your foul uncultured opinion of several-hundred-million people.
joe mcguire
my comment was directed at the fool using bisexual vampire.
Jesse Helms
Poor Joe McGuire is a bitter homosexual lonely Queen with AIDS and no children to love or take care of him. LOL
The 3 fruit cakes in the picture are bottoms and all have HIV just like Joe McCuire. Good riddance to Joe. No one will attend his funeral, not even his parents. They shunned him once they found out he left men go up inside him. LOL What a loser!
Michael
Being seen in public wearing the same outfit as your buds makes you look…twelve.
Jesse Helms
These 3 white queens look like the Gabor sisters.
Jesse Helms
3 bottom pasies.
L.
I wonder what “bisexual vampires” are. People who drink both blood and… what? Sperm? Urine?
The mix doesn’t seem to do them much good no matter what.
(And, @ron: I wish I culd have thumbed you up more than once.)
L.
(“Culd”? Darn, that’s what you get when you use your finger for something other than typing. Sorry, Ron.)
pappy_mcfae
“3 bottom pasies.”
What are “pasies”? Did you mean, “pansies”?
Phoenix
@gerry: Too right! I wish everyone remembered/learned about Stonewall. Who knows where we’d be if not for the likes of Sylvia Rivera.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewall_riots