Since we have to assume you, like us, don’t keep too up to date on your ABC Family programming, there’s a show called The Fosters that first aired in 2013 that follows the lives of the coincidentally named Foster family — an interracial lesbian couple raising a mix of biological, adopted and foster children. How’s that for diversity?
Fans of the show have been following the budding friendship of 13-year-old foster child Jude Foster and his schoolmate Connor Schoolmate. Oh, no sorry it’s just “Connor.”
It’s made clear early on that Jude is probably gay. In one of their scenes together, Connor paints his nails in solidarity after Jude is bullied for doing the same:
Which is pretty damn cute. But the cuteness doesn’t end there.
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
After a camping trip where something happened in the tent, the two are at a movie together and engage is some sickeningly sweet pinky holding:
And then in the most recent episode, Jude blows up at Connor for all the mixed signals, telling him, “You kissed me! Remember? In the tent? And then at the movie theatre you held my hand. And now all day you’ve been…I just… I don’t get this. I don’t get you.”
And that’s when Connor goes in for the kiss, which by all accounts is the youngest same-sex kiss to be shown on television:
h/t Buzzfeed
Low Country Boy
I’ve got to say, I am on the fence with this one. On one hand, good for ABC Family for such a daring move. On the other hand, I don’t want to see 13-year-olds kissing at all, regardless of the situation.
Ladbrook
Cue evangelical “IT’S-KIDDIE-PORN” outrage in 3…2…1…
Arcamenel
Is it really the youngest? Maybe on tv because I’m pretty sure I’ve seen a ton of hetero coming-of-age movies where a 13 year old protagonist had their first kiss.
wysevice27
@Low Country Boy:
Right on, man
CoachS
@Ladbrook: Yep. I’m with you on this one. It’s just life… but someone is gonna be outraged. It’s about the kids – praise Jeebus.
Bob LaBlah
@Low Country Boy: My midwestern upbringing obliges me to agree with you on this one. I know kids are coming out younger and younger but I draw the line at eighteen, and I have been out of the closet over forty-years.
Low Country Boy
@wysevice27: @Bob LaBlah: Thanks for the positive comments. This site can be way too snarky. I almost didn’t post because I was afraid of the vitriol.
wysevice27
@Low Country Boy:
Getting laid inversely correlates with snarkiness 🙂
“In each of the fountains at Versailles, there is a rotating pike which keeps all the carp active; otherwise they would grow overfat and die. [I take] rare delight in performing a similar duty in the [intellectual] fountains of [Queerty].”
Some people take themselves wayyy too seriously, and need someone to play Devil’s Advocate and challenge the logic and merits of their ideas. The bitter, scared ones respond with hostility and rage.
If it gets too negative, I just dip out. Life’s too short to get an ulcer over silly little stuff, ya know man? Peace, love, tons of money, and Caribbean vacations to you dude!
cflekken
@Low Country Boy: Yes, I’d have to agree. Something here just doesn’t feel right. Don’t get me wrong. I know that 13 year olds can have romantic feelings and this could absolutely occur in real life. But, these are young actors, not at the age of consent. And I’m not taking this from an angle of exploitation. But I’m wondering what types of discussions were had with the boys and their parents and were any medical professionals (i.e., psychologists) involved. Did the boys feel forced to agree to this to please the directors and their parents? Are the boys mature enough to potentially face any scrutiny they’ll get from their peer group for doing “something gay”?
Xzamilio
Gotta love this nonsense in the comments section. Yeah, we need more LGBT representation on TV, but damn the kids seeing individuals their age doing the exact same thing that hetero kids their age are doing. Such ridiculous unfounded scrutiny over a peck between two young boys… and who hasn’t thought of or hasn’t done the same thing at that age? Yeah, let’s just keep raising screwed up kids who keep their feelings bottled up and then become sex-driven man-whores the minute they get some freedom.
Did they feel forced to agree to this because of the director and their parents… get the fuck outta here with that stupid shit.
wysevice27
@Xzamilio:
Chill, dude, let’s keep it civil. No one’s being anti-gay here. What we’re saying is “GREAT that homo kids are getting representation alongside hetero kids, we like that, BUT we actually don’t want to see ANY kids kissing on television regardless of gender or sexual orientation. Having minors kiss each other, and filming and distributing it, feels mildly creepy to many of us adults. Lets stick to less intimate, less sexual things with children.”
And I can understand what he’s saying about pressure from parents and directors. A lot of the actors playing gay characters on TV and movies are actually straight. And being pro-gay is fashionable in Hollywood these days; it’s a great career booster, just ask all the has-beens suddenly coming out in support of gay rights. So you might have straight kids who feel, or whose parents feel, that doing something like this is necessary for their careers. cflekken is just voicing concern over child exploitation.
Xzamilio
@wysevice27: Awww, how noble. Meanwhile, shows like Degrassi High depicts teenagers in all kinds of situations, some sexual. You sound so much like the individuals that were throwing a fuss over the gay scenes in HTGAWM, it’s not even funny. Despite what you may think, gay kids and lesbian kids and bisexual kids and transgender kids watch TV, too, and I think it was great to show young people experiencing life the same way kids their age do.I’m not clamoring to see little boys kissing, but I saw nothing unsettling about it, and I applaud them showing it. It’s about damn time we had coming of age stories about LGBT youth. And to think adults would force kids to kiss is really unsettling to me.
Low Country Boy
@cflekken: @wysevice27: Agreed, Sirs! @Xzamilio: I understand, having been that age once, but I don’t need to see it on TV! When is the last time you saw two hetero kids that age making out on TV? By the way, you would get further with your arguments if you didn’t use such “potty mouth,” Asshole!
Scribe38
Good for ABC. 13 is the age people start to date and kiss. Saved by the bell, the wonder years, the facts of life, and Cosby show all had str8 first kisses, why is this different? Screw the Christian right. No one is advocating for the two to jump in bed, its just a kiss.
Xzamilio
And I am aware no one is being anti-gay here… just cowardly. I guess showing two boys kiss is the ammo the anti-gay bunch need to show that we are pushing our “agenda” on kids? Of course it’s “creepy” to adults… no one is asking to see young kids in sexual situations… at least I’m not. But this wasn’t sexual, and about as innocent as you can get with a young gay storyline. It’s not about what we want to see… it’s about what NEEDS to be seen, and my hats off to ABC for allowing the show to do this. It’s a great and near realistic depiction of young gay love, and if anyone is trying to make this more than it is by being sexual about it, then they have some real issues.
Xzamilio
@Low Country Boy: “Potty mouth”? What are you, my first grade teacher? And why don’t you look at Scribe’s comment, because I distinctly remember Winnie and Kevin kissing at a young age. But then again, I guess if YOU don’t need to see it on TV, younger LGBT youth don’t need to see it on TV, huh? I guess if straight people don’t need to say LGBT characters on TV, they shouldn’t be there, huh? My arguments can get further, period, so fuck off with your puritan BS.
wysevice27
@Xzamilio:
Let’s just agree to disagree, man. Different people have different values. Some of us are more restrained when it comes to showing minors kissing, or being in any other way intimate, on TV. It’s not a “gay-vs-straight” thing.
For the record, I also find tampon commercials gross 🙂
Scribe38
@Low Country Boy: Make out? Bro it’s a kiss relax. Plenty of shows so straight teens doing way worst. Focus instead of the number of kids who will realize there isn’t anything wrong with being gay, won’t be more likely to try to commit suicide. When you were 13 wouldn’t you have loved seeing people like you represented?
Low Country Boy
@Xzamilio: It’s called “ironic juxtaposition.” Sorry you cannot get it.
wysevice27
@Xzamilio:
Please stop being a bully to Low Country Boy. Bullying isn’t cool, man. “Free speech” means we all have a right to express our views, and should be attacked just for doing so. Rise up the intellectual food chain, man, you’re better than that.
—————————————————————————
@Scribe38:
I agree that a simple kiss isn’t going to make the sky fall, but I call BS on your implication that 13-year-old gays are committing suicide because they don’t see gay kissing on ABC. I think you’re pushing it a little far there.
wysevice27
* Shouldn’t.
Definitely meant to say “shouldn’t.”
🙂
Xzamilio
@wysevice27: Duh!!! Free speech isn’t consequence free speech, and what you call an “attack”, I call exercising my free speech. You can keep throwing out your barbs, insulting my intelligence, but that’s fine with me. I’d rather be thought of as some crass bully, than some prudish gay hypocrite who’s fine with LGBT kids not being represented in TV and other mediums the same way that hetero kids are. Your “values” are nothing more than your personal opinion, so please don’t insult me by implying your “values” are somehow better than mine, because they aren’t. Your “restraint” echoes the kind of “restraint” the anti-gay groups have.
Xzamilio
@Low Country Boy: It’s called “reply to the comment instead of retreating.” Sorry YOU cannot get it.
ppp111
@Low Country Boy:
I agree with you. I may sound like a prude but I have issue seeing kids that young kissing each other. And yes, even if they were straight, I’d still prefer not to see it.
This reminds me of another movie made in the 1990s, For a Lost Soldier, about a gay youth having a romance with an American soldier in his early 20s. The kid might have been 13 or 14 but the soldier was 21 at least. Needless to say, they did have a scene that I know wouldn’t have made it past the screeners. Good movie but it could have done without that particular scene.
wysevice27
@Xzamilio:
>>”I’d rather be thought of as some crass bully, than some prudish gay hypocrite who’s fine with LGBT kids not being represented in TV and other mediums [you meant to say media] the same way that hetero kids are.”
You totally missed what we’re saying here, bro. We’re not fine with unequal representation. We’re saying we’re uncomfortable with ALL representation of sub-18 sexuality on television. Gay, straight, or otherwise. Kids shouldn’t be sexualized, and it especially isn’t fodder for TV or movies. Stick to using 18+ people in those roles.
And I didn’t imply that your values are inferior. I said “let’s agree to disagree,” because we have different values. I stand by that.
Low Country Boy
@Xzamilio: You try to keep it civil on this site and people crap all over you. Not retreating. Just tired of the hate and vitriol on this site. Have a great life! Namaste!
Xzamilio
Let’s see… a story about a 13 or 14 year old in a romance with a grown man, being compared to two 13 year old boys kissing. Okay… GREAT comparison.
Low Country Boy
@wysevice27: Very well written!
polarisfashion
I can’t wait to hear Pat Robertson, Markus Bachmann, Rush Limbaugh, Michelle Duggar, Bill O’Reilly, and Sarah Palin’s take on this! Anyone want to add to this list. Seriously though if this was a hetero kiss it wouldn’t even be newsworthy. Our LGBTQ young people can take strength from this kiss and not feel like the freaks that the haters teach then that they are. I wish I could have seen a kiss like that when I was their age, it would have helped answer so many questions for me.
Xzamilio
@Low Country Boy: Not people… ME. I’m crapping all over you… but not really. I mean, this is my mode. I comment like this, and usually with people I don’t agree with. Don’t drag other people into this, because I don’t represent “people”… I’m talking for myself. I’m simply saying that it doesn’t matter what you don’t want to see… it needs to be seen. LGBT, straight… it needs to be seen. We don’t live in some puritanical society where youth are seen as these innocent little creatures. And it should tell you something when the states that have abstinence only taught in school have the highest rates of teen pregnancy. 13 is the age most of start dating and kissing… and for people to make it more than it is, is ridiculously out of touch with not only current youth, but their own. I wish I had stuff like this when I was younger.
Xzamilio
@wysevice27: “Sexualized”? A kiss is now “sexualizing” kids? Done. You’re right… we’ll just agree to disagree.
ingyaom
I don’t know if anyone else looked up the actors playing these characters, but they’re 15 and 16 years old.
Low Country Boy
@Xzamilio: Wow, you have a lot of issues. “I’m crapping all over you . . . but not really.” A few comments: (1) Did you read this entire thread? See my first comment; (2) Read the rest of the thread and see who used profanity first; (3) Don’t deflect; and (4) You did crap all over me. You are only backtracking because wyservice27 called you out on your own bad behavior. Not cool.
wysevice27
@ingyaom:
“I don’t know if anyone else looked up the actors playing these characters, but they’re 15 and 16 years old.”
@Xzamilio:
“‘Sexualized’? A kiss is now ‘sexualizing’ kids?”
@Xzamilio:
“We don’t live in some puritanical society where youth are seen as these innocent little creatures.”
———————————————————-
That’s what’s bothering us. We see children as innocent little creatures, who should not be put in sexual situations by adults for any purpose – including making TV and movies.
Hollywood moves the bar ever year. Kids kissing is no longer “sexualized.” 15- and 16-year-old minors are now fair game. Where do we draw the line? At what point DO we draw a line, and say “this line isn’t moving any more”?
Or do we just eventually slide into NAMBLA territory and say that all laws and ideas and values like these are repressive and puritanical…that if you’re old enough to have hair around your dick/pussy, you’re no longer a kid and no longer innocent and should be treated no different from an 18-year-old.
xzall
Re 13 year old kissing on TV:
“McKellar began appearing as Winnie Cooper on the beloved family sitcom when she was just 13 years old. In the January 1988 premiere episode, Winnie has her first kiss with Kevin Arnold (played by Fred Savage), and the smooch served as McKellar’s first kiss as well.”
That was January 1988. A 13 year old character played by a real 13 year old had her first kiss on TV. Why wasn’t the sky falling then? Where was the concern to make sure the Parents talked about this first with them?
wysevice27
@Xzamilio: @Low Country Boy:
Alright dudes, let’s shake hands and move forward. I’m sure there’s common ground we all agree on.
Xzamilio
@Low Country Boy: Oh, I don’t backtrack. I stand by every single thing I said to you, and won’t apologize to you over it. I saw you first comment, and it rubbed me the wrong way from the start. Wyservice hasn’t called me out on a damn thing, but of course since you agree with him, you’d want to believe that. I’m NOT crapping all over you.. you feel that way, so be it. Your prudish mindset withstanding, you still haven’t demonstrated WHY they should show a kiss between two thirteen year olds, gay or straight. Is it too real for you? Does it give the anti-gay bunch some ammo? Or is it that it only matters what YOU want to see, and not others who voice similar disapproval to different matters?
Low Country Boy
@wysevice27: Thank you for taking the higher ground, Sir. I have a real problem with that situation when I am personally attacked. I will try to be better than other people. Again, thank you.
Low Country Boy
@Xzamilio: My comments speak for themselves, as do yours. Have a good night, Pumpkin!
Xzamilio
@Low Country Boy: Same to you, Prude
Scribe38
@wysevice27: No 13 years old commit suicide because the world tells them they are wrong, evil, and unnatural; because the world pretends they don’t exist. This sends the opposite message of being gay is a natural thing. I attempted suicide twice at 14. I had my first guy kiss in 10th grade. The fact that there was at least one other person in the world who could love me, pulled me out of depression and helped me become comfortable in my own skin. I guarantee a lot of young gay teens got a positive message from this one kiss.
Low Country Boy
@Xzamilio: Same to you, young gay, who did nothing to advance the cause.
wysevice27
@Scribe38:
Again, I think your point doesn’t pass the sniff-test of a reality check.
If the only thing stopping our kids from killing themselves is some vicarious thing they see on a TV screen, we’ve got much bigger problems.
Xzamilio
@wysevice27: Really? Are WE really using slippery slope arguments now, with NO merit? Well, let’s not stop there!!! What about gay marriage?? That’s gonna open the door to men marrying little girls now, isn’t it? What about little boys? What about marrying our pets now? So, now I have to explain, how consenting adults and even minors who consent among themselves is NOT even close to being on the same wavelength as an adult being with a minor that incapable of consenting to an adult relationship? You wanna talk about ME climbing the ladder of intellect and proceed to use one of the dumbest fallacies out there, that has NOTHING to do with what anyone here is saying, except you bunch who thinks a kiss is equal to a sexual act and sexualizing kids? What utter nonsense.
@xzall: Don’t even waste your time with these prudes. Apparently we all wore chastity belts as teenagers and didn’t kiss or date until we turned 18.
wysevice27
@Low Country Boy:
Okay man, I hate to lose a friend, but now I gotta be fair and call you out too. You’ve lowered yourself by stooping to name-calling and personal attacks on Xzamilio’s character. Just like he did to you.
Can’t we just debate the ideas here? I love you all, even if I disagree with some of your views.
Peace, love, blowjobs, and good weed! 🙂
wysevice27
@Xzamilio:
Man, here’s the question again:
“We [me, Low Country Boy, ppp111, etc.] see children as innocent little creatures, who should not be put in sexual situations by adults for any purpose – including making TV and movies.
Hollywood moves the bar ever year. Kids kissing is no longer ‘sexualized.’ 15- and 16-year-old minors are now fair game. Where do we draw the line? At what point DO we draw a line, and say ‘this line isn’t moving any more’?”
I’d like to hear your thoughts, man!
Low Country Boy
@wysevice27: I’ll take the first three. Haven’t done the last in many years!
Xzamilio
@Low Country Boy: Are you really still replying, dude? What did YOU do to advance the cause?? Because last I checked, being an openly gay atheist black man in Texas was more than enough to “advance the cause” in my own damn life. What are YOU doing to “advance the cause”, aside from spreading the message to LGBT youth that they don’t matter until they turn 18? I’ve “not mattered” in a lot of groups, so I know how it feels to see something you can relate to being put on TV in a positive light. Y’all are treating this like they showed child porn or something. It’s a fucking kiss!!! Really!!
danmiller88
@Low Country Boy: @Low Country Boy:
Okay. I am going to join this conversation not to add to the fight but to voice the opinion of a person who has grown-up in the new gay culture. First of all, I have watched the show and they have progressed the relationship between Connor and Jude over the course of 38 episodes. They have handled it with great care and respect. It was not a sexual kiss at all. It is the progression of the story line. They had to kiss or they had to end the storyline completely which would have been sad. I have no problem with kids kissing on television they been doing it forever. I don’t know if you ever scene Disney or Nick but it is a common occurrence. Second, they actually conducted interviews with both actors and they stated that the director did not make them do anything. The story lines were discussed well and advanced and they even had a closed set to make sure they were comfortable with it. The actors said that they are very proud of there work on the show and have no problem with the kiss. Third, this may be the first time two 13 years old boys have kissed on television but 14 year old boys have been having same sex kissing and well more for sometime. Shameless is probable the most well known. The guy character on that show was 14 years old having sex with his 30 plus year old boss. No one objected to that.
danmiller88
@Xzamilio: @Low Country Boy:
Sorry I had more to say lol…. Fourth of all it does make a difference to teenagers. I never felt more comfortable about who I was until I saw 14 year old ginger red hair boy on shameless make out with another guy. I was sixteen at the time — if he could do it and it be okay and normal then there was nothing wrong with me. These depictions saves lives and changes mind. I promise you that there was someone out there who has been watching Connor and Jude progress and how cute they really are that they now think well okay… I’m good if my son is gay, or my brother, or my sister, or my friend. And finally, guys kissing are really not a big deal anymore. Even for kids, bisexuality and the exploration of ones sexual preference is not rejected to or marginalized. When acts come out and say I like woman for now but who knows I might fall in love with a guy one day. That’s helps the moment. I really hope one day the depiction of two 13 year old boys having one kiss on a television show does not get its own article. I hope it is treated like a 13 year old boy and girl kissing on television, which is no one cares at all. I know this article was published to show progression, but that fact it was published and written at all sets us back.
xerox
@Danmiller 88- Completely agree with your post!
regardless I ship #jonnor lol; this is groundbreaking people anyway the characters in real life are 14 and 15, respectively. So stop bitching people. I’m sure had everyone been more accepting of gays/lesbians at your age you would probably been more comfortable with a kiss at 13. It’s 2015, get it together old timers.
Low Country Boy
@Xzamilio: If you want to talk about this civilly and in person, post your phone number. BTW, I am 49, served in the military and worked on marriage equality issues here — among other things.
danmiller88
@xerox:
Thanks dude. I completely ship jonnor as well. LOL I was so pumped that kissed not because I that it was some big political issue, but simply because it was about time for the freakin characters because they are so freakin cute. lol
Xzamilio
@wysevice27: Like I did to HIM? If I recall, I didn’t call anyone an “Asshole” like your Low-Stooping Country Boy did. In fact, I didn’t call anyone out of their name, until I was, so why don’t you reread the whole damn thread and point out where I called you or LCB out of their name. I came on strong and direct and abrasive, but I didn’t call anyone an asshole. HE lowered the bar with name calling, not me.
xerox
@danmiller88: I’m honestly excited for this, because that how true relationships are built, beginning at that age. It’s refreshing to see those type of scenes and not just gay sex scenes like the ones that are starting to pop up from nowhere.
wysevice27
@Xzamilio:
Then be the bigger man: apologize for your part and for lowering yourself, then move on.
And remember, being the bigger man involves not crowing about being the bigger man. It’s not about bragging rights.
Xzamilio
@Low Country Boy: And I will be 30 in a month, have also served in the military including two deployments, and became an advocate and activist for LGBT individuals after I got my own crap together and started living openly being who I was. I grew up in the most ass backwards part of Mississippi there was, and I hope like hell some kid growing up in some rural hick town can see that he or she is not some weirdo or some freak of nature because they’d rather kiss their own gender than the opposite.
danmiller88
@xerox:
I completely agree. I think someone posted some comment earlier basically implying that younger gays have it easier. I think that’s true to some extent because I feel I can explore who I am and never feel like I have to define myself in anyway. Neither Connor or Jude has stated that are gay. It is depicted as two friends that are incredibly close and feel something for each other. The gay equality movement isn’t just a move for gays to have more rights, but its movement for people to be who they are and love who they love.
Xzamilio
@wysevice27: Were you a school teacher? Because you sound like you are or used to be one… and that’s not an insult or a jab. You just come across as a mediator who’s had to make peace with rowdy people
@Low Country Boy: Before this gets any more ridiculous and low-brow, let me just say we can disagree on this, and I will no longer refer to you as a “prude” for having a different opinion. This is just something I feel LGBT youth need to see more of, and to dismiss as something YOU personally don’t want to see, I feel, is dismissing a whole subset of our younger generations who don’t have that representation on TV. And whether they show it or not, youth are kissing, they are having sex, and they are experimenting. Not showing it doesn’t make it not exist… if anything, it just ignores a part of growing up and coming into who you are as a person.
Scribe38
@wysevice27: If one believes that television can be harmful to youths then one should also be capable of recognizing that the medium can do great good. The Real World showed the world a humanized face of gays and HIV. Life Goes On showed how gay teens can be emotional abused by their family. Glee showed bullying, suicide, and the possibility of young gay love. Just because these shows don’t effect your world it doesn’t mean they didn’t or don’t help others. It doesn’t smell right to you? Brother I lived it. This show is going to do way more good than harm
mmichael_24
I wonder you guys that see this actually watch the show and watch interviews of these young actors. They are very mature for they’re age and I highly doubt that they felt uncomfortable doing this seeing that the whole show is centered around a gay couple and their family of foster kids. In my opinion this story will help a lot of kids who are around their age who are just discovering their sexuality. And plenty of younger people are dating these days so their age shouldn’t be an issue
wysevice27
@Xzamilio:
Thanks man, I appreciate that!
I’m a manager in an accounting firm. Finding the best in diverse people is the most important thing I feel I do; our employees are made of both genders, all ages and body types, politics all over the spectrum, more races and colors than Benjamin Moore has paint chips, and religions with gods I can’t even pronounce…but we’re all lovable imperfect humans, and we all have to work towards a common goal for our clients. It’s better to have people inside the tent pissing out, than outside the tent pissing in.
People make all kinds of assumptions about those they don’t know. All I’ve revealed on Queerty is that I’m 25 years old, and a gay male who identifies as straight to the world so that I don’t screw myself in our straight-centric society. In another thread, they’re assuming I’m rich, Christian, conservative, white, and selfish. Only one thing on that list is true. It makes me laugh, because with religion I’m an atheist, and with politics I’m an anarchist libertarian. My 3 core beliefs are “mind your own business”, “live and let live,” and “if the individual has the right to govern himself, all external government is tyranny.”
In yet another thread, I’m assumed to be a hick prude. But I grew up in suburban New Jersey in the 1990s, and I publish HOT erotica on Nifty under the name Ephraim Johnson.
Like I said, people make all kinds of crazy – and funny! – assumptions.
wysevice27
@Scribe38:
You start off saying “If one believes that television can be harmful to youths…”
Man, I always feel weird when people start talking about ideas and viewpoints and opinions being dangerous. It feels really Orwellian to me. It’s like “1984.” The political leaders who talk about “dangerous ideas” that need to be “shut down” are always evil dictators.
But there is a line between “censorship” and “decency.” We can elect to omit some themes from TV because we thing they’re immoral or indecent. We all agree (I hope) that kiddie porn is wayyyy past this line, totally unacceptable, doesn’t belong on TV or anywhere else. Children kissing also used to be past the line, but half the commenters here think that 15 years old is “old enough” and that children are “not innocent little creatures” (that really disturbed me, I gotta admit.)
The line moves. Once, married couples slept in separated twin beds on TV. No one wants to go back to the stone age there, but we have to stop moving the line at some point or else we DO end up with kiddie porn. There has to be some place where we say “here the line stays, and it goes NO FURTHER.”
So where, and how, do we draw that line? People need to get past the whole gay/straight thing here; none of us are saying the sky is falling because two boys kissed on TV. We’re saying that ANY kids kissing in TV is wrong. Like little girls whose pants say “juicy” across the ass…
Lvng1Tor
All the complaining and self hate that’s reared it’s ugly head above…there is no difference between 2 boys kissing at 13..and it was an innocent, cute, heartwarming awe kiss…not making out…is no different to the bajillion hetro kisses on tv of kid’s the same age. It is good for kids to see their LGBT selves reflected on tv as whole people and equals to in every way to hetro kids. Good for the kids too. People (looking at the gay boys above) trying to find something salacious..and yes only because its a GAY kiss, need to stop and think why they find it so uncomfortable to think of 13 yrs olds as kids with sexual feelings. It is possible you know to acknowledge it and not be a perv…but if that’s where your minds go!?! ya got bigger issues. Didn’t you have those feelings when you were their ages? I did, the kid’s I mentor do and they need to know they are not eunuchs until they are represented as whole beings after college in the media. Least it won’t add to teen pregnancy….gosh it might even lead to…gasp…kids feeling good about themselves and not taking their lives
Xzamilio
@wysevice27:Saying “pregnant” on TV used to be “over the line.” I tried to stop, but that last comment you made was a clear jab at what I said and a perversion of what I am saying. This slippery slope to “kiddie porn” is just lazy and last I checked, no one here was cheering on the possibility of two young boys getting it on… that’s pushing it too far. This is why I made the comment about your rhetoric being on par with anti-gay bunch who keep saying gay marriage will lead to brother and sister marriage, pet and man marriage, or men marrying little girls or boys. You have no justification to make such a leap from kissing to kiddie porn. The “innocent little creatures” remark, I still stand by because I used to be one of those “innocent little creatures” so I don’t dare insult the intelligence of young teenagers or dismiss them as being too young have representation of their feelings and who they are.
What is this “line”? I’ll tell you what it is: An arbitrary notion that people attempt to use to conflate their discomfort with something, with “values” and “morals”… People aren’t getting past this whole gay/straight thing because it’s barely an issue when it’s a straight person… and keep in mind this was the youngest SAME SEX kiss in TV history, not THE youngest kiss on TV.
wysevice27
@Lvng1Tor:
We’re not saying 13-year-olds don’t have sexual feelings. We’re saying adults shouldn’t be filming children kissing, then selling it on TV.
No one’s talking about bringing in censorship or government regulation. We’re just saying it skeezes us out, man. Personal preference on some of our part.
Make a documentary about young love! Talk about it. Share poetry and stories. Interview married couples who fell in love as kids. But you don’t need to show sexual acts like kissing, especially by kids below the legal age of consent.
(And if you don’t think kissing is a sexual act, try it on a random female coworker sometime and see what H.R. says)
Lvng1Tor
@Xzamilio: Dude…I get ya….wow…on your side. @wysevice27: kissing is a sexual act……yup it is. it can be a sweet act of love and really cute when it happens between 2 young people and it it skeezes you out then again I think you need to revisit why you feel this way and why it jumps you to a SEXUAL act….then you jump to randomly kissing a “female” coworker without consent? WTF? seriously your mind jumps to kiddie porn, aggressive physical acts against random people all over an innocent kiss you wouldn’t glance twice at if it were between a boy and a girl. WOW!
Low Country Boy
@Xzamilio: Persian Gulf War, Bitch! And still no wanting to be a real person and not a troll? Have fun with that.
Xzamilio
@wysevice27: Your analogies are off as heck. Kissing is not necessarily a sexual act, but it damn sure is a CONSENSUAL one, meaning you don’t just go up to random people kissing them, any more than you would walk up to them and wipe their face if they have something on it.
Xzamilio
@Low Country Boy: Operation Iraqi and Enduring Freedom. Iraq 06-08 and Afghanistan in 2009. I’m sort of confused about the last part of your post. Did you really think I would give you my number or something? All you have to do is click on my name and it’ll take you to my blog where you’ll see my black ass face on the side.
wysevice27
Xzamilio, I know what’ll cheer you up, bro! There’s a great video on YouTube of Divine singing “Walk Like a Man.” If that crazy shit doesn’t put a smile on your face, there’s no hope 🙂
Saint Law
@wysevice27: I don’t think there’s a creepier, more passive aggressive concern troll on here.
Congratz!
dhmonarch89
would have meant the world to me at 13-14, so in that respect it’s great for the 16 and under crowd today, otherwise- I just feel like a creepy old perv.
Blackceo
I LOVE the Fosters. It is such a great, diverse show and I love the dynamic of the two moms and their blended household of biological, adopted, and foster kids. I been acting like a teeny bopper with Jude and Conner, aka Jonnor. Yes, I “ship” them so much and was so happy for them when they kissed. They really have handled this coming of age storyline very well.
darian
I don’t see the big deal. Should it be filmed and such no but that’s Hollywood they pretty much do what they want. Honestly I don’t see same seeded kids kissing on t.v. being a thing 20 years from now.
martinbakman
@Xzamilio: Agree, it does seem to be a bit of nonsense. It’s just a kiss.
Some kids actually try out kissing at that age. When is a boy supposed to process these things if not at 13? 18? Oh please. I mean I’m sorry how so many of you came out late in life and didn’t get your lips on a another man until late in life, but this a different world now.
As far as evangelists, many of them have dated and married 13 year olds. That crowd is just a bunch of hot gas.
Dakotahgeo
Whoaaaaa!!! Now THAT… is sweet! Very tender and heartwarming! It’s ’bout damn time!
Pastor Dak!
cflekken
@Xzamilio: ‘Do you even understand what I mean by that? Frankly, I don’t have the energy to explain it to someone like you. But I will. It’s not “just a kiss”. The question here is this: Are both of these BOYS gay? If so, then okay, we’re good. It’s a kiss. If one or both are straight and they felt forced to do something, then that’s a whole different ballgame. If you don’t agree, then that’s fine, but if a straight BOY is forced to do something that’s against his nature, then that could have implications. Too bad you’re so narrow-focused (as always) to stretch beyond your own self-absorbed thinking (as always) to understand that.
Lvng1Tor
@cflekken: There is soooo much wrong with what you wrote and your implications that this kiss on the lips could somehow mentally scar a straight BOY (really? all caps? really?) is something you seem to need to deal with. Like with a mental health professional. All snark aside, which is very hard for me to do, please seek help.
Lvng1Tor
So many commentators on here have jumped from 2 young teens sharing an innocent sweet first kiss to child porn, forcing straight boys to be gay, scaring them mentally, sexually attacking coworkers, not showing anything remotely sexual and making eunuchs out of anyone under 17 (common age of consent, not everywhere save me your googel legal degree bs) jumping to rape and so many other scary things…if that is where your mind goes as soon as you see something innocent and real you need to get your butts into therapy. Really, that should not be your first reaction or second or third even…..
wysevice27
@Lvng1Tor:
As a gay man, you of all people should understand that therapy does not exist to “get peoples’ minds right”…that is, to alter their political opinions in order to match yours (or whatever someone else says they “should” be.)
Abuse of psychology for political purposes is a mighty scary thing, my friend. Haven’t we seen enough of it to stop suggesting everyone who shares a differing political opinion needs mental treatment?
Believing that adults should not film children kissing and sell it on TV, or believing that straight children should not feel pressured by adults to engage in same-sex kissing, is not indicative of mental illness.
Xzamilio
@cflekken: IF they were forced. IF they were forced. You DO realize your whole stupid unfounded point is found on a tautology that you haven’t even demonstrated is true? Of course you don’t… but I’m the “narrow-focused” one. Wow, you ARE dumber than I originally thought.
wysevice27
@Xzamilio:
Man, I love you right now for using the word “tautology” in a sentence. You just don’t see that happen everyday! 🙂
Lvng1Tor
@wysevice27: Now you’ve jumped to making this a political statement? You have had emotional argument after emotional argument. Enjoy your day. You change your attack and reasoning every time you respond to someone that’s basically called you out or disagreed. And yes, if people jump to seeing dirty or shameful or just the, that shouldn’t be seen it’s bad, right away when reacting to this, I definitely recommend therapy. That has nothing to do with your wide leap to politics…
Merv
Jesus Christ, boy-girl first kisses are a staple of American TV going back to the 1950s, and even then didn’t generate controversy. If in 2015 you’re more uptight than 1950s America, then you have some issues to work through.
Merv
(Yes, I realize that this is technically the second kiss in this case, but the point remains the same.)
CoachS
@danmiller88: Well said. I’m with you.
While I don’t hold myself up as the final precept of morality, I just made a point to watch the episode in question. I’ve always enjoyed the show, though I don’t watch it regularly by any means. In my opinion, the scene was more than appropriate. It was an awkward closed mouth elongated peck. It was acted incredibly well by both young men as it went from a literal kick in the stomach, to an awkward discussion about mixed messages, to “THE kiss”. It was two young guys taking their first steps into adulthood and it was far from scintillating. It was how I remember my first kiss – which happened at about the same age. It was… endearing.
superdad
straight, 35, happily married dad of two daughters. I’m proud of that history making moment in television
jriverag
It’s really disheartening to see the comments of “I draw the line at 18”, IT’S NOT PORN, these are teens finding themselves and their heterosexual counterparts get depictions of their coming-of-age models in SPADES. I would have given ANYTHING to have something to relate to at that age, so BRAVO to ABC for giving today’s gay youth something on TV that they can relate to. If you are sexualizing this perfectly innocent situation, then I suggest that’s something you need to address with your psychologist at your next session and stop trolling.
Dakotahgeo
@jriverag: THANK you!
Xzamilio
@wysevice27: And let me just address one more thing with you. I don’t like the way you dishonestly conflated my use of the word “youth” with me saying that I was talking about children which I most certainly was not, and never once implied it. So please do not try to make your points by being fundamentally dishonest and making it seem as though I was championing for 7 or 8 year olds to explore their sexuality or even to kiss… because that’s beyond the pale and just plain inflammatory. So whatever you found “disturbing” had nothing to do with what I said, and everything to do with a conclusion you knowingly jumped to in order to make me sound like some pedo creep