Slate.com’s Dear Prudence (a.k.a. writer Emily Yoffe) falls somewhere between Ann Landers and Dan Savage in the progressive advice-giving arena. We imagine her to be like a mom in Portland—fairly conservative in her lifestyle, but generally on the right side of the issues.
Sometimes, though, we wish she’d unleash her poisoned pen a bit more. Like in this column from a few weeks back, in which a tight-ass mom asked how to shelter her son from the terrible influence of his friend’s gay parents. (Won’t somebody think of the children?!?)
My son is in second grade and a classmate of his has “two daddies.” My son wants to go over to his friend’s house to play, but we are nervous about this. I know my opinion is probably unpopular, but it is still my opinion: I do not know if this is a good environment for my son at his age. We do not talk about topics like homosexuality in our home. We do not want to field questions yet about these kinds of topics; we want him to be able to just be a kid instead of dealing with complex sexual issues. His friend plays at our house and he is a very nice boy, but eventually his “daddies” will to know if my son can go to their house.
How do we tactfully tell this couple that we would prefer if their son plays at our house? My sister thinks that I will just have to “get over it” and send my son over there. But isn’t it my right to monitor environments and control influences for my children? I fear that children in modern society are exposed to far too much far too soon—what happened to letting kids just be kids?
Prudence’s response was certainly commendable, if a bit toothless:
So you think this little boy’s home should be shunned in the name of letting kids be kids. You don’t have to do a lot of explaining to second-graders. When my daughter was even younger than that we had a gay couple and a lesbian couple in our neighborhood who each had kids. We casually explained to my daughter—after she asked, which wasn’t immediately—that usually kids have a mommy and daddy but sometimes kids have two mommies or two daddies. It was no big deal to her. I assume treating everyone with respect is a value you want to inculcate in your son. Letting him play at his friend’s house will be a good way to put that in action.
We really wish Pru had laid into this uptight breeder a bit more—but that’s not her style. Still, considering other questions in the same column were about a teacher engaged to a former student some 20 years his junior, a husband who sleeps with his elderly mom, and a woman who’s man wants to videotape her giving birth, it’s pretty clear being straight is no protection from crazy shit.
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
So we put it to you, Queerty readers. How would you react to this person’s ignorant question?
What if you were the gay parents in this scenario: Would you separate your son from his innocent playmate because of his prejudiced mom or dad? Or suck it up for the sake of the kids?
Sound out, ever so tactfully, in the comments.
Photos: Jason Rogers, NBC
doug105
If you had kids would you let them play at a friends house if you know the parents were rabid christians ?
KyleW
I think that the ignorance is in your reporting,not the question. It’s a perfectly reasonable question from someone who is simply trying to provide a moral environment for her child to grow up in, and control the rate at which he receives information about the more complex subjects. Just because everyone here is adept at the “sometimes two men love each other like mummy and daddy do” explanation for kids, many people who are not so acquainted with gay friendly speak may never have had to consider such things before.
This mother is making no negative commentary about homosexuality. She is merely saying that it is a flavour of human behaviour that is not yet discussed in her home. As a parent, she is well within her reasonable rights to decide when issues such as sexuality are raised.
I get sick and tired of our militant victim mentality – “oh we’re so oppressed”. We are oppressed, but you don’t have to hunt out incidents to take offence at – there are plenty of bigger issues to consider. It’s no wonder so many people are sick of hearing about gay issues.
KyleW
@doug105: Good point Doug – and no, I wouldn’t. As a person who was physically assaulted by our pastor at about 11 or 12, and was stalked by not one, but two pedophiles at our church as a young teen, I most certainly would not allow my child anyhere near christian fundamentalists.
MKe
These people really think gayness is like a virus! Their son’s sexuality had been developing completely hetero and then he saw his friends gay dads and it changed instantly lol. Well I hope their son is popular and able enough to lose friends and make new ones based on his parents preferences.
Mrs. Robinson
So these parents won’t let their child go to the friend’s house but expect the gay parents to allow their kid to come to theirs. I wouldn’t let my 4 kids anywhere near this psychotic woman.
EdWoody
Kids understand things a lot better than adults do. My sister told me that one day her son (now 10 but younger at the time) came to her and asked, “Uncle X and Uncle Y are married, right?” That’s right, she said. In fact, your dad’s brother Uncle A and his girlfriend Auntie B aren’t married, whereas Uncles X and Y are. Most of the time a man marries a woman, but sometimes a woman marries a woman, or a man marries a man. It’s no big deal. He pondered for a second, then just nodded his head, said “Okay then” and went on his way. Job done.
What these people are afraid of is not their children’s reaction to the news but their own.
pedro
I’m gay and there are some gay people’s houses I would not let my hypothetical children enter…I am only in my early 20’s and have no kids…But the fact is that a certain segment of gay culture is just too permissive for my taste…I see absolutely nothing wrong with this woman having concern for the child’s wellbeing…
Heather
This is so irritating, I don’t see why people have such a problem with homosexuals. It’s not a virus, it’s not a disease… Even if I WAS a ‘against’ the gay community, I would STILL send my child over to their house to play with the other kid because I believe in equality. This is the problem, this is why prejudice and racist people continue to exist, because they were raised to think that certain things are not okay.
Get over it 🙂 We all bleed red. It’s the same as if someone said their kid can’t go to a friends house because they’re black, because their parent’s are obese, because their parents are christian or atheist. You are who you are, and children should be raised to embrace differences in others. =)
Jimmy Velvet
Jeez, pedro, self loathe much???
Perhaps the unspoken issue here is this misinformed mom subconsciously associates gay men with being pedophiles. Hey lady, that’s PRIESTS, not gay men. But seriously, we have a young son who has had tons of playdates over. The usual reaction: “Hey, Jimmy, you’ve got two dads?” Jimmy, “Yep”. “Cool.” Kids don’t think it’s weird unless parents tell them it’s weird.
The Real Mike in Asheville
Well Dan Avery/Queerty, Prudie wasn’t writing to you, she was writing to the questioner and other people who are open to discussion. First, eliminate both the gays/allies (as in preaching to the choir, we are already beyond this) and the wingnuts (who already ignore the teachings of Jesus’ “Golden Rule” and hug tight to their bigotry based on the Mosaic laws [laws of Moses] that Jesus denounced). We don’t need to be told; they don’t want to listen.
NOM, AFA, FoF, and the other hate groups, have spent years on their mantra: What about the children? And as the Prop. 8 vote went, that was an effective rhetorical device.
Addressing our non-allies and non-wingnut bigots, Prudie makes a plea to those in-the-middle people who sway opinions depending on the way the political winds are blowing. Here, Prudie makes the case that the kids will be all right in the presence of families with gay/lesbian parents. That kids get it, are not freaked out, and that that is the way our society socializes and educates the next generation.
For that, Prudie gets an A+.
I
Omg Pedro! Seek help!
Fitz
I think that if she had given any more of the “Poison pen” that you crave, it would just be another name-calling incident.
“I assume treating everyone with respect is a value you want to inculcate in your son. Letting him play at his friend’s house will be a good way to put that in action.” is a genius line in it’s way.
SmugDaddy
The first sentence pretty much says it all. Notice the letter writer puts quotes around the words: two daddies. A common device to indicate that she really doesn’t view these two men as legitimate parents.
I have no doubt that she conveys her judgmental attitude to both her child and the child of the gay parents.
I sincerely hope the two dads saw this letter, recognized the woman, and will stop allowing their child to hang out at this woman’s home. Their child needs to be protected from this lady. Any contact between her and their child is ill-advised.
DavidZ
My thoughts are from a parenting standpoint. If your child makes a new friend and wanted to play at their house, I would set up an initial play date there with my child and myself and maybe my partner. That way I could evaluate the situation for what it is. I wouldn’t want to let my kid play in a house that say had rats or cockroaches or mean dogs, just as I wouldn’t want to find an aggressive spousal environment there. Once I met the family I could make a more informed decision on future play dates. It’s very possible during that visit that maybe she would change her narrow opinion about two gay men living together.
timncguy
@KyleW: you say:
“As a parent, she is well within her reasonable rights to decide when issues such as sexuality are raised.”
Why is it that you view her child visiting the home of a gay couple as raising issues of sexuality while visiting the home of a straight couple somehow doesn’t involve their sexuality? If she is able to answer her son’s questions about a straight couple without discussing their sexual activities, why can’t she do that with questions about a gay couple? Maybe the advice columnist should have suggested she educate herself about the fact that gay couples are about more than sexual activities and positions. Then once she had some understanding, she could have felt comfortable in allowing her child to visit his friend at his friend’s home especially since she has already stated that the friend’s daddies have raised “very nice boy”.
aagblog
Homophobes aren’t afraid of explaining, “Some people have a mom and a dad; some people have two dads.”
They *are* afraid of having to explain things like “eternal damnation” and “abomination”. They can’t say the former without also feeling the need to say the latter. Hence their reluctance.
If I was one of the dads...
If I was one of the dads, I would say “I’m concerned about my child’s well-being and can’t have him playing in a bugited environment. Perhaps it is simply best that your son play by himself.”
MKe
@pedro: I think if there were anything outside of the normal about this gay couple this lady would have mentioned it. This seems to be a nice well adjusted gay couple raising a kid who obviously has something in common with this woman’s own kid. This is typical anti gay bias and if you look at the fear spread in that culture it makes enough sense. She really does need to end the kids’ friendship I think, but not for the sake of her own kid, but the other one. He doesn’t need to see all that subtle bias coming from his friend’s parents.
Katt
I hate to be the one to inject race into this conversation, but I experienced this as a kid. I had a white best friend and I would always play at his house, but he would never play at mine. The funny thing was that my family was far better off than his and lived in a much better neighborhood. When his parents wouldn’t let him come to my birthday party my dad wouldn’t allow me to play with him anymore because his parents were “racist”. I didn’t know what it was and they were always so nice when I was over there. As a kid all I knew was that I lost a friend and learned not to trust white ppl.
If I were the same sex parents, I would invite the kid and his parents over. Show them that we are just like every other family and that our home is completely kid safe. While the kids played we would have a grown up talk about what’s best for our kids. Make sure that it’s clear the example both set of parents may be setting for their kids and agree on what’s right. If after they still have objections, I would allow them to think about it but would slowly start to wean my kid away from their home. Allow them to play at parks and public places. I don’t want my kid to think its ok to visit a house his family is not welcome in. Hopefully they can build a friendship independant of their parents.
Callum
There is nothing wrong with the concerned mother’s IGNORANT query. At least she is asking for advice rather than acting on her own homophobic intuition. I think my answer would have been somewhat similar to the answer given in the column. I have personal experience of a similar situation that happened to me some 60 years ago. There was a small one or two room cabin about a half block from my parent’s rural home. The two people living in the cabin were both police officers. Sometimes my parents had them to our house for cards or coffee. As a 6 year old child I knew they were affectionate with each other, but I had no concept of society needing both mommies and a daddies to make a family. I never gave the two female police officers an additional thought, they were simply neighbors. Someone I was not supposed to bother but also someone I could go to in case of an emergency.
Jeff
If she was really concerned about the well-being of the kids, she’d try to get to know the two dads to get a feel of what kind of folks they are. You know, the way you should with EVERYONE you send your kids off to hang out with. She wants to cling to bigotry and she will regardless of what an advice columnist says.
Dave
Mother says “a classmate of his has “2 daddies”.” KyleW they certainly would call us bigots for putting mommy and daddy in scare quotes and I think they would be right. But why has everyone including Prudence missed the fact that the parents probably found out about their sons classmates two daddies from their son. This woman claims she does not want her son “dealing with complex sexual issues” and that “I fear that children in modern society are exposed to far too much far too soon.” But what new issues will he have to deal with? And what will he be exposed to that he did not already deduce? Kids are not stupid! Her son will not be exposed to any new information at his friends house. She asks “But isn’t it my right to monitor environments and control influences for my children?”. It is your duty to monitor any environment your children spend time in. You also do have right to control their influences they are exposed to. But it the influence is not bad why do you need to keep your child away from it. Again KyleW to suggest that gay people or relationships are inherently a bad influence is bigotry. Yes she is a bigot but I’ve seen much worse. If I was one of her sons friends daddies I would allow my son to continue to go to his friends house so long as I felt he was safe. I would do so for the benefit of my son. I do not believe that christians or even bigots are inherently bad influences. We should be able to see this in the fact that the child is likely more tolerant than the parents. I would also continue to send my son to their house due to my desire to nurture tolerance within society.
the crustybastard
Let’s Ask the Bastard
Dear Christian Tightass,
Perhaps your child plays differently than every other child on Earth, but how exactly do you imagine your little snowflake’s play-date will compel you “to deal with complex sexual issues”?
Yeah, it won’t.
Thing is, you’re not really scared of your son playing at their house. You’re actually scared of telling your boy he can’t hang with his best friend because you and your husband are bigots.
Nobody wants to admit they’re a bigot. But you are. And that’s the problem — there is no “tactful” way to say, “Look I’m a terrible bigot, so you simply must politely accommodate my obnoxiousness and stupidity.”
Why don’t you and your husband just grow up instead? That’s how the rest of us dealt with it.
Love,
Crusty
Dagny T
It’s spelled ‘whose’, not ‘who’s’ in the sixth paragraph.
KyleW
@Dave: Dave, nobody is suggesting that gay people are a bad influence, although, as Pedro very rightly pointed out, there is a sector of the gay community (and I would opine that it’s a much larger sector than in the heterosexual community) that is exceedingly permissive, bordering on depraved. To point that out is not, as Jimmy Velvet seems to suggest, “self loathing”; rather it is an honest admission of facts that the gay community in general may wish to leave in the closet.
I take your point about the use of parentheses around the words “two daddies”. I missed that, and I agree, it does cast this particular incident in a different light, almost as though she is saying “shock horror” before the words.
But much as we may dislike her perspectives, at least, as Callum points out, she is asking questions, which is more than most homophobes do. If we castigate those who may be recetive to education, we can never win hearts and minds.
I think Jeff makes the best suggestion, that she simply get to know the two men, and if she feels comfortable with them, then she can address the issue of how to explain their relationship to her son afterwards, if he asks. Of course, some people here would then call her a bigot for wanting to pre-approve the adults into whose care care she entrusts her children, even though it’s no more than any decent parent would do, regardless of the sexuality of the parents.
Jakey
@KyleW: Yeah, not really. The idea that she has no negative feelings about homosexuality based on this is ridiculous. By thinking of homosexuality as a “behavior” at all, and as a “complex sexual issue” her kids can’t hear about without losing some of their innocence (or whatever), she has the classic homophobe problem of being unable to think about anything but gay sex when she thinks of gay people. Obviously she wouldn’t want her kids to know all about straight sex at this age, and yet she knows full well they can be around male-female couples without that becoming a topic of discussion, and that she can think of a way to describe a mommy-daddy couple beyond “well, that’s when a man and a woman decide they like it when he sticks his penis in her vagina.” That she apparently can’t think of a different way to describe a same-sex couple–and thinks that’s the same-sex couple’s fault, and not hers!–is all down to her and her shitty attitude, not to anything her kids would actually be exposed to in the presence of such a couple. If she spent half the effort trying to have a reasonable approach to the outside world that she did trying to make her shitty opinions sound less awful, she’d be all set. The only person making it an issue is her.
the crustybastard
@KyleW: Of course, some people here would then call her a bigot for wanting to pre-approve the adults into whose care care she entrusts her children, even though it’s no more than any decent parent would do, regardless of the sexuality of the parents.”
Are you somehow impaired?
This ‘phobe is not diligently pre-approving a household to ensure her child’s safety — she’s pre-judging a household as unsuitable, unfit and unsafe BECAUSE of the sexuality of the parents.
Reading is fundamental.
Christopher Banks
I think she got it right in her reply: don’t overcomplicate things. There’s a great exchange doing the rounds on the internet at the moment that runs thusly:
“I’ve been forced to explain homosexuality to my kids (aged 3 and 4) because their uncle is gay. This incredibly difficult and traumatic experience went as follows:
Child: Why does Uncle Bob go everywhere with Pete?
Me: Because they’re in love, just like Mommy and Daddy are.
Child: Oh. Can I have a biscuit?
We’re all scarred for life. Scarred, I tell you.”
I think when parents talk about being “concerned for the kids” they’re reflecting their own homophobia and using the kids as an excuse. They don’t think about comparing the same-sex couple to themselves, which would be the normal thing to do, they leap straight to anal sex.
Mk_ultra_again
It’s the common strawman that we see employed by the ignorant types. That homosexuality = a sex act.
Of course most people know that sex is just a part of homosexuality, as it is with heterosexuality. There is also romance, intimacy and love among other things that are just the same in gay people as they are in straight people.
Do these ignorant types feel the need to have a discussion about sex with their children every time they see a straight couple?
No. As many have pointed out, it is as simple as “sometimes men and women love each other, sometimes men love other men and women love other women”
[email protected]
Dear Prudence: My son wants to go visit at one of his schoolmate’s home. But I know that the parents are rabid homophobes and fundamental Xtians. They have disrupted PTA meetings demanding that Intelligent Design be taught alongside Evolution. We are afraid that they will try to ‘convert’ our son, telling him that his two dads are going to go to hell. How do we protect him from their ‘hell & brimstone’ while still allowing him to associate with his little friend? I am sure that he will be just fine with them calling his parents every name under the sun and he can learn how to treat everyone with respect by visiting with such a humane family.
MJ
I do wonder if she’s met his parents and engaged in conversation with them often. If not, then it’s just a prejudiced opinion that she’s forming. complex issues such as sex should only be raised when the boy goes through puberty obviously. he’s in 2nd grade right now. he’s not even thinking about it. people these days always wanna over-analyze shit. invite the parents over for a few hours or go their home (preferably the latter) so you can see for yourself whether or not you would want your kid around them. just because they’re gay doesn’t make them automatically bad parents. and you can just say while most kids have a mommy and a daddy, some just have one parent, or have two daddies, or two mommies. that’s it. you don’t have to write a book
shannon
CHECK THIS OUT…….I LIVED BRIEFLY…FOR ONE YEAR IN THE BIGGEST BIBLE BELT…..I TELL YOU…..I HAD MORE ASS FROM THESE “MARRIED CHRISTIAN MEN” THAT CAHSED AFTER ME BEHIND THEIR WIVES BACK WHILE THEY WERE AT CHURCH ATTACKING GAY PEOPLE……TRUST ME….THIS IS A FARCE….
Andrew (Melbourne Aus)
Why it is that some people feel you need to bring up sex with an 8 year-old when they ask why another kid has two Daddies. “dealing with complex sexual issues”. The kids aren’t asking about sex, they simply want to know why another had two dads. And it’s the same as you would explain to any child. Some kids have a mum and a dad, some only have a dad, some only a mum and some have two dads and some have two mums.
Most kids will then simply say, “oh. OK” then go off and play.
The fear here really is that kids will grow up and not question it; therefore, making gay dads and mums a ‘normal’ part of life.
KyleW
@Jakey: Jakey, yes I stand corrected. I have clearly fallen into the same trap as thinking of homosexuality as an issue of sexuality. Perhaps I was mislead by by the word “sexuality” in the term “homosexuality”. Seriously. I recognise and accept that the term itself misleads people into adopting a wrong view because it reduces the relationship to the sexual preference of the partners, rather than seeing it for what it is – a relationship; a living arrangement, love, affection, commitment, etc.
Perhaps this is the fundamental problem we all have – that the very word used to classify us simply describes our sexual preference. It takes one small part of our make up, shines a spotlight on it, to the exclusion of all others, and defines us by that.
Perhaps our fight should be to enlarge the focus beyond the bedroom.
All of which being said, I still find homosexuals to be more permissive, and it is not unwarranted for a parent to exercise additional caution before allowing her child into the care of a gay couple.
Mrs. Robinson
@KyleW: You have zero evidence to demonstrate that homosexuals are more permissive. Really. Try a new meme.
jeremy
i just think we forget how unimportant this kind of stuff was when we ourselves were kids. i grew up with a gay family friend knew my entire life he was gay but it wasnt until much much later in life when i hit puberty that it even registered in my head that he was gay like me. it was never a secret, it never mattered. and if we want to let kids be kids then how about we just accept that sometimes as adults we get way too caught up in our own personal crap that we seem to push onto them. its all about respect you dont have to feel uneasy but the ladies sister was right get over it, he just wants to play with his buddy and do boy stuff.
Sean
This happened to my family. No big deal, you move on. There are lots of play dates out there. The problem for this mother is this: Does she want to raise a child who turns out to be Dharun Ravi? An apparently normal teen whose lack of respect for gay people and disgusting prank lead to the suicide of Tyler Clementi and the ruination of his own future with a ten year jail sentence potentially in his future. The fact is that parents who say they don’t want to be discussing “sexual” issues with grade-schoolers need to get their minds off the anatomy of gay sex and imagine the world through the eyes of their children. This is a wonderful chance for this mother to teach her child about diversity. Sex doesn’t even need to be mentioned.
KyleW
@Mrs. Robinson: I have absolutely loads of experiential and observational evidence that homosexuals are more permissive, and even from a psychological perspective, it’s extremely easy to understand why that is the case. I can’t speak for lesbians, but I certainly believe it to be very much the case for gay men.
The Real Mike in Asheville
@KyleW: Well then you have never been to a college post football game players/cheerleaders party, have you?
Fine you have experience among gay men in situations where sex is the primary objective, well sex is the primary objective of pretty much ALL men; we go to gay clubs, and the straight guys go to tittie bars. And if parents were truly concerned about inappropriate sexualized social environments, they would stop taking them to church!
Queer Supremacist
I have another question:
How can we change the laws so children are taken out of the homes of “people” like this bigoted BREEDER GOY CUNT?
Jaroslaw
#38 I’m late to the debate, but if in part of your data, you’re referring to children of same sex partners experiment more sexually – it is true. Because they are not usually sex negative parents. But the data ALSO says children from such SS couples turn our Gay/Straight at the same rates. Generally, though, I thing Pru’s advice was good. You can’t shake someone’s cage so much in your advice they dismiss it entirely. I do agree it is a good sign she thought enough to ask. And someone here mentioned that being too “poison pen” is to dismiss the “middle thinkers” whose opinions might actually be swayed. Frankly, it seems most people these days don’t join organizations, don’t volunteer (partly because wages haven’t kept pace wtih inflation- thanks GOP) but mostly because so many people just don’t care about ANYTHING outside their own sphere of interest. Why should homosexuality be any different? That is not an issue most people have to deal with and to tactfully answer this woman’s question with that in mind is hardly a crime.