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STUDY BUDDIES

Americans Lay Equal Blame on Genes and Parents for Your Faggotry

Despite Lady Gaga’s single, not everyone thinks that gays were “born this way.” A new Gallup poll reveals that only 40 percent of Americans attribute fabulousness to genetics and 42 percent blame your parents or goblins or whoever the hell raised you (such awful manners, wipe your chin). This surprising statistic is actually great for a few reasons…

The chart shows a decline in folks who think “upbringing and environment” turn you gay which kinda deflates the anti-adoption folks who worry that gay parents will turn their kids into box-munching butt-queens.

Also, if more Americans think that genetics and upbringing both play a role in sexual development, they might also accept that other factors play a role too—emotional intimacy, drug use, computer use, and porn fantasies. That is, different conditions might get a person to try a sexual behavior different than what they’re used to.

A recent huge-assed web porn study suggests that in our porn fantasies at least, many people show a large degree of bisexual fluidity (although the study’s data set has been called “suspicious” by some dorks).

Luckily if they ever do discover a gay gene, at least your employers won’t be able to test you for it. They’ll have to find out the old fashioned way—at the men’s urinal, 2 PM… alone.

Via The New Civil Rights Movement

By:           Daniel Villarreal
On:           May 26, 2011
Tagged: , , , , ,
  • 32 Comments
    • Bobby In Seattle
      Bobby In Seattle

      I get so sick of this debate, when “I,” yes “I” know I was BORN this way. I’ll be 41 in October, and I’ve NEVER had sex, nor the desire to have sex, with a female. It is NEVER going to happen. Ever.

      People that think this is a choice need to STFU, since they know nothing about my inner most personal feelings and what makes me who I am.

      May 26, 2011 at 5:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fuckthisshitimpullinout
      fuckthisshitimpullinout

      Americans are truly the biggest idiots on the planet

      May 26, 2011 at 6:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Pterodactyl
      Pterodactyl

      This makes no sense – people are born with environments.

      @Bobby – this is not about choice but about the perceived origin of homosexuality. For instance, if I asked “Is a sun-tan something you are born with, or due to factors like the environment”, it’s clear that you cannot will a suntan into existence or out of existence but it is a product of a relationship between a subject and their environment.

      May 26, 2011 at 7:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Hyhybt
      Hyhybt

      I see no reason to believe that the cause(s) must necessarily be the same in every case… nor that it should matter, except that if it’s innate for at least some people (nearly all, I would think), that’s helpful in getting straight people to understand better.

      May 26, 2011 at 7:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • marcus
      marcus

      I say this as a fierce advocate of any human to have sex with, make love to, or get married to any consenting creature or group of consenting creatures. Sexuality IS NOT binary, and is NOT genetic. Many gay men say things like “I have not and will not ever have anal sex with a woman”, yet this does not mean that they were genetically born with this sexual preference, or lack thereof… just as many GAY men say they will never have anal sex with another man. Social conditioning and reinforcements (or lack thereof) create sexuality. In societies that have lacked the binary view which we hold on sexuality, the majority of the people were gay.

      Furthermore… gay people CAN procreate. A gay woman can have sex with a gay man, and yet we don’t see the drastically higher chances of homosexuality in offspring of gay “breeders” than would be found in straight “breeders”. Gay is not genetic… but there is NO reason to limit what any group of consenting beings wish to do to or with themselves.

      May 26, 2011 at 9:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Pocket
      Pocket

      @marcus: Do you have any data to back that up or just a cheap anecdote about how you perceive certain pre-modern societies? You’re begging the question by assuming what you mean to prove when you say “Many gay men say things like “I have not and will not ever have anal sex with a woman”, yet this does not mean that they were genetically born with this sexual preference, or lack thereof…”, it also doesn’t mean that it ISN’T genetic, its just a statement about how they perceive their preference. If that and “some societies thought different about gender and a lot of them were gay!” is all you have to prove a truth about the entire human race then you should go back to the drawing board. Double blind tests anyone? PS, the evidence for the genetic determination of gender grows stronger by the year, read up yeah?

      May 26, 2011 at 9:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • marcus
      marcus

      @Pocket: Sorry, that was actually a mistype. I meant to say ” In societies that have lacked the binary view which we hold on sexuality, the majority of the people were bisexual.”. And I can point at the very least to Ancient Greece, in which it was perfectly tolerable for men to have male sex-partners and females to have female sex-partners.

      And that’s NOT the only evidence I posted. There have been many studies done on the children of gay men and women, none showing significant increase in the likelihood of gay offspring.

      That being said, it’s no more possible to “teach out the gay” than it is to “teach out the liking of the blowjob”, nor should we ever attempt to do something to an individual who comes to the conclusion that he or she enjoys something which is not harmful to others.

      May 26, 2011 at 10:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Danny
      Danny

      The poll could also mean that 42% of Americans are bi and closeted, so they think being gay is a choice because they haven’t acted on the gay side of being bi themselves. That poll may have just outed the size of the closted bi community, give or take, in the USA.

      May 26, 2011 at 10:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • thom
      thom

      @Danny:

      one can dream right?

      May 26, 2011 at 10:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jeffree
      Jeffree

      Explanations of sexual orientation don’t just rely on “environment” and “genetics” but also “epigenetics” — the ongoing interaction between the spawn’s genes & the child’s fetal development, including changes in Mamacita’s hormones (etc.) during her pregnancy.

      May 27, 2011 at 1:31 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • redball
      redball

      @Jeffree: RIGHT?!

      When can conversations in this country about sexuality and gender start to reflect the reams of science (twin and sibling studies, etc.) that has already been done & continues to be done? This poll is appalling b/c it forces a false choice between two answers. Some of column A, some of column B (except for the “upbringing” part, which seems to point the finger at parents, and I haven’t seen any research at all to support that).

      May 27, 2011 at 3:58 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • bystander
      bystander

      There really isn’t enough evidence to conclude being gay is entirely genetic. But the cause of homosexuality completely misses the point..

      There are plenty of things which people may have a genetic pre-disposition to which no one should accept because they are genetic: alcoholism, cancer, and perhaps even pedophilia.

      There are also plenty of things which are perfectly fine which are completely of our own choosing. (to many examples)

      The question as to whether homosexuality is good or not or should be accepted or not has nothing to do with its causes, but its effects. In reality gay people don’t harm the world, but simply add more variations. Thats the argument we should be making.

      May 28, 2011 at 12:08 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • GRAMPS
      GRAMPS

      Having spent over 20 years on the straight side of the aisle and another 20 plus years on the gay side. I know sexual orientation is more fluid than most would think.

      May 28, 2011 at 12:31 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shannon1981
      Shannon1981

      There was absolutely nothing in my environment growing up that would have encouraged me to be queer. Quite the opposite, in fact. I think it is absolutely genetic for me personally.

      May 28, 2011 at 12:42 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • marcus
      marcus

      @Shannon1981: I could find you many people who say that there is nothing in their environment that gave them a foot fetish, also. This doesn’t mean that they have a genetic disposition to it. If you’re correct that it’s genetic, then there should be a very large chance that your children are gay should you choose to physically create a child through heterosex. Thing is, though, there isn’t. The idea that it’s environment isn’t merely the idea that your parents or friends encouraged you to be gay… but that your being gay is the natural result of every minute experience which changed effected you. Different subconscious associations spawn different tastes, and quite frankly, every individual is born liking anything that pleases his or her genetalia… which gender they prefer pleasing it is entirely mental. As I’ve said before, I am an advocate of sexuality rights… but I won’t insult the gay community by saying they were born with some sort of genetic flaw which caused them to be attracted to the half of humanity they cannot breed with. There is little to no evidence to support the idea that human beings are genetically gay, in fact… the mere fact that there have been identical twins who have been different sexualities is PROOF of this. The most one could argue for is that there is a genetic disposition for homosexuality, and that upbringing brings it out, or smashes it.

      May 28, 2011 at 1:20 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jeffree
      Jeffree

      Don’t blame Mom & Dad!
      The reason the fundies WANT sexual orientation to be “environmental” is because that makes it a choice & a pathology to be fixed, cured, & prayed away.

      The entire premise of reparative therapy is based on gayness being due to upbringing (parenting, trauma, sex abuse), going back to disproven theories about distant dads & clingy moms. They confuse gender ID with sexual orientation.

      That’s why they cling to bad research, so they can rake in the coins peddling reparative therapy (something our cyber-amiga Shannon1981 has written about so clearly)

      May 28, 2011 at 1:23 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • marcus
      marcus

      @Jeffree: Saying homosexuality can be repaired away is as viable as saying that the liking of the blowjob can be repaired away. It doesn’t work that way. But saying that there is a homosexuality gene is just as absurd as saying that there is a blowjob gene.

      May 28, 2011 at 3:48 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shannon1981
      Shannon1981

      @Jeffree:
      The thing is, sure there could be variables….but I have had so many people who, based on world society, SHOULD be the biggest influences in my life advocate the idea that nobody is really gay that I cannot explain it other than to quote GaGa and say born this way. I just don’t get it otherwise. And you are so right when you say they rake in $$ on that therapy. My parents paid upwards of $3000 for it.

      @marcus: You’re crazy. I know what I experienced, and still experienced. I am gay because…well…I am gay. End of story. To say otherwise is insulting IMO.

      May 28, 2011 at 4:00 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jeffree
      Jeffree

      @Shannon1981:
      Think about what you could’ve done with those three thousand bucks!

      It’s a testament to your strength that you didn’t cave into the pressure. & grew up so healthy + cool

      A friend of mine with wealthy fundie parents saw a so-called therapist 2-3 times a week for years and had two stints in “camp”!. He’s semi-happily out now but still struggles mightily whenever he gets close to having a relationships.

      @Marcus: You need to read up on genetics & epigenetics so you won’t sound like a homeschooled 4th grader.

      Even basic characteristics such as eye color are shaped across mulltiple genes. The human genome has been sequenced but that is a very small step toward being able to explain how certain physical attributes occur.

      Add in the in-utero environmental effects on fetal development, & you’ll understand why the simplistic model you believe in is outdated, illogical & wrong.

      May 28, 2011 at 4:57 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TheRealAdam
      TheRealAdam

      @Shannon1981: Exactly. It’s incredibly insulting and ignorant what Marcus is saying, and he’s clearly equating *sexual acts* with *sexual orientation,* and they do not go hand-in-hand.

      We’re gay and we were born this way. We knew it from the very beginning, we’ll know it to the end. If anything, it’s up to straight people to figure us out and catch up with us.

      May 28, 2011 at 5:11 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • marcus
      marcus

      @Shannon1981: All evidence shows that people are born bisexual. There have been numerous studies which showed that children who had their genitles rubbed experienced pleasure, no matter which gender did the rubbing. It is only until later on when the mental associations for preference over gender are formed.

      Don’t think I’m saying that people can suddenly change, or that they CAN suddenly change. Just as people who dislike broccoli may never be able to enjoy it, or people who have foot fetishes might never be able to remove the positive mental association of feet.

      @jeffrey

      You’re the one oversimplifying my model. I believe entirely that hormones in the mother effect the disposition of a child in many ways, and I classify that under environment, as it is a LITERAL environment which effects a developing human. but I do not believe that there is something specific about the human genetic sequence which effects one’s positive sexual association with the same gender. My argument is against the notion that humans are genetically classified as homosexual or heterosexual… and against the notion that people are born into a specific sexuality structured in the binary fashion of gay/straight.

      May 28, 2011 at 5:16 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TheRealAdam
      TheRealAdam

      @marcus: Again, you are equating sexual pleasure with sexual orientation, and that is extremely faulty and dangerous.

      Sexuality isn’t about pleasure through “genital stimulation.” The orgasm only serves as an end to something else: sexuality actually has to do with the *romantic and sexual feelings and emotions* (orientation) you have toward one or both sexes. It has been shown that our “wiring” in this regard is uncontrollable.

      Also, using a child as an example in this case is very disturbing and might lead someone to believe you have an anti-gay agenda (but of course that was more or less clear from the beginning).

      May 28, 2011 at 5:53 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jeffree
      Jeffree

      Marcus: Your grasp of science is weak. I feel like I’m explaining algebra to my dog.
      But, unlike you, my mutt doesn’t try to explain algebra to me.

      So, let’s try to start with some simple math first.

      Response to physical stimulation is not the same as sexual orientation.

      Having the physical capacity to have sex with people of either or both genders is not the same as the desire to.

      Boñus lesson!
      Even if woman can perform oral on me just as well as a man, that does not mean I wish to marry her. Or reciprocate.

      You appear not to have actually understood or even read the studies you “cite.”

      Believing what your pastor or homeschooling Mom tells you about them isn’t the same as reading them. You’re also about 8 years behind in your reading.

      Other than that, I’m sure you’re a wonderful person and keep your room very tidy.

      May 28, 2011 at 6:02 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • marcus
      marcus

      @TheRealAdam
      Don’t confuse me for a religious nut, or for one who wishes to take the rights away from other people. I don’t have an anti-gay agenda, and have been actively working with the gay community for quite some time. The views I have received on sexual orientation have been introduced to me via a number of pansexual friends fighting against the stratification of sexuality into neat little boxes, and advocating the redefining of sexual orientation as the spectrum of subconscious acceptance or denial of various portions of humanity for sexual and love related interactions.

      May 28, 2011 at 6:26 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TheRealAdam
      TheRealAdam

      @marcus: So you are basically saying that you only have a bunch of personal anecdotes to go on, and you are trying to impose that on gays and lesbians and speak for all of us? That is your agenda, is it not?

      May 28, 2011 at 6:48 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shannon1981
      Shannon1981

      @Jeffree: Yeah, 3k is a lot. And they aren’t rich people either, so dropping that much cash for something so harmful and ridiculous is insane. And thank you. :) I think personality overall plays into how one comes out of such things. I know plenty who are downright crazy as a result.

      Marcus- gimme a break. I’m sure if you yourself, asshole that you are, could give me an orgasm because that is a PHYSICAL reaction. Doesn’t mean I love you or want to fuck you though.

      May 28, 2011 at 10:36 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shannon1981
      Shannon1981

      @TheRealAdam: He is trying to dismantle the Born This Way Meme, which I personally believe to be fact. No matter what he claims, in the current climate, that counts as actively working against us.

      Marcus be gone. You are a fool.

      May 28, 2011 at 11:44 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • marcus
      marcus

      @Shannon1981: Wow. You assume that I’m against Gays because I don’t believe that gays are genetically gay? Sorry, but you’re the ignorant one here.

      Even if my ideas are based on bad science, the intent behind them is 100% positive, and 100% behind the gay and bisexual community. What you forget is that pansexuals and bisexuals often receive flak and discrimination from BOTH the gay AND straight community because of the notion that homosexuality is genetic. I have already stated that I believe there is likely a set of combined genes or traits which leads to the genetic disposition towards Homosexuality, but that I believe one’s environment to be a much stronger factor in the determination of sexuality.

      I’m not saying that being able to receive sexual gratification from the same sex equates to homosexuality, or choosing to receive it makes one homosexual. You can find the studies which were done on infants to be appalling, as I ALSO do, but they were and have been done, and have showed positive MENTAL reactions from said infants. Freud himself used such studies in his work on sexuality. Being homosexual doesn’t require sex, as you well know… it merely requires attraction and positive sexual association with the opposite sex.

      You can call me an enemy for believing that sexuality starts at pansexual, and quickly morphs into various differentiations based on experience and disposition, but this is NOT the standard “enemy” argument. The standard “enemy” argument is one which says that heterosexuality is the norm and anything else is a deviation. I do NOT believe this at all. As you very well may know, almost every mammal in the world (And literally EVERY Great Ape, a classification of Animal to which humans belong) has been shown to be bisexual as the norm, with only very few animals sticking to only one gender or another. I see no reason to believe humans are any different. Don’t oversimplify my argument and say that I believe that Gays choose to be gay, or that they can be changed. I don’t. I believe that people become straight and gay when their environment spurs it.

      Just because I don’t believe the most common story believed by Gay Rights Activists doesn’t mean I’m an enemy of Gay people, or of you.

      May 28, 2011 at 10:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shannon1981
      Shannon1981

      @marcus: to promote the idea that being gay is some kind of flaw or choice or something that occurs in the environment/and or isn’t inherent is to validate the beliefs of bigots who think we can change and should have no rights. Whether you mean to or not, you work against us. You are thee ignorant one. Go be straight if you can. I am pretty sure that, despite Gay Pride and all the rest(how fitting that we are in Pride season for this conversation) we would choose to be a part of society that isn’t constantly ostracized if we could, but we can’t, and your BS promotes the idea that we can. Good Night.

      May 28, 2011 at 11:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jeffree
      Jeffree

      Nature vs Nurture vs Not Sure…

      @TheRealAdam (#22): We cross-posted so I missed your reply, but what you said was spot on (so was #26)

      @Shannon1981: Whenever someone seems to start in with the “choice” meme, I’m right there with you on feeling that those people have a nasty agenda ! Because, they almost always seem to.

      @Marcus: Your clarification helps, at least a little. There’s no denying that the L + G communities often don’t “get” bisexuality. We humans gravitate too quickly to a binary, either-or mentality, even if that doesn’t capture the reality of sciencific theories on S.O., or the lives of bisexuals, asexuals, and pan people too.

      Since you identify as “bi-” (and “pan-“) you have several options on how you express your sexuality: with men, women, trans, genderqueer, intersex…)

      That’s YOUR sexuality & anybody who tries to tell you they know more about that than you do is a conniving fool.

      That said, for those of us whose S.O. veers closer to being purely gay or lesbian, that is OUR reality. Please don’t try to tell me that you have greater insight into my sexuality than I do.

      Anybody can find “studies” to support whatever theory they hold. That’s why “good” scientists are careful to express the limitations of their findings & the better scientists tie their work to prior research *and* suggest ways to go forward with research. When you read more into those studies than the authors do, you WILL rightly get called out by people who’ve read more widely & deeply than u. And by people who are well aware of their own S.O.

      I hope that helps bring some clarity. [and I apologize for the homeschooling / pastor remarks. I mistook you for a ig'nant fundie]

      May 29, 2011 at 6:18 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Adman
      Adman

      Marcus is, in fact a fool. He can perform malicious acts without realizing it, that’s the definition of foolish. Fuck off, you stupid loser. Go to church, fucking moron.

      May 29, 2011 at 4:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Raquin
      Raquin

      I stand firmly in my belief that we are born AND socialized this way. But I love reading all of your arguments at Marcus who makes some valid points. I also like Bystander’s sentiments as well. I have nothing else to say.

      Jun 3, 2011 at 1:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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