Right, Americans are to dense too realise that gays just represent the culture they have grown to hate and are an easy target. All americans who support/ed that horrible war are responsible.

And Phil, you’re being ridiculous. Claiming that “Freepers” are involved in a “pro-gay anti-Islamic” conspiracy is batshit crazy.

I’m offering a NON-RACIST point of view about Dearborn, you know, because I’m FROM there. This is in reaction to Big Jake’s statement that Dearborn is a ‘fucked up’ city. What–because its not completely run by white people? Its not some town run by Al Qaida, and in fact, EVERY Middle Eastern American I know is a true patriot, and is here because she or he loves this country.

Chitown Kev, I happen to be friends with Bashar, and have attended Al Gamea parties before, and they’re great. Bashar is a great guy, and I know he’d be the first to jump up on this board and say, “wait a minute, this is way off base.”

I’ve known guys and girls who grew up Christian and Jewish get kicked out of their houses for being gay, but I’ve also known girls and guys who grew up with NO religion get kicked out of their houses for being gay. I’ve known Buddhists and Hindus who have kicked their kids out for being gay. Islam does NOT have a monopoly over hate, homophobia or violence. Don’t be pretending like things are all rosy here in white Christian America. Your shit smells too.

I think that conservatism and ignorance are to blame here, once again, for the violence against gays. Its doesn’t originate from any one religion, or from Religion at all, but from closed-mindedness and ignorance. After reading these comments, I’m pretty sure if we got some of these boys together in a room, and hyped them up to a fever pitch, and then threw in someone they disagreed with, we’d see a similar level of gore and carnage. The violence is a product of the ignorance–which this comment stream seems to have plenty of.

How brave of you.

I appreciate your article and all of us feel horrible and angry about what is happening in Iraq. I am inclined to make a contribution, but I will wait until your report the story accurately. RELIGION, in this case Muslims, is what is killing gays in Iraq. It is because of their religious beliefs that it is “okay” to kill fellow Iraqis.

Please stop leaving that FACT out of your reporting.

Brian Miller’s comments above exemplify the kind of arbitrary invective that has surrounded issues in Iran, and that’s been particularly directed at people who questioned whether there were facts behind the eminently questionable claims made about an ongoing “pogrom” there. Without exception, those sweeping claims were only devised by Westerners and haven’t been endorsed by gay Iranians; the claims did no one outside or inside Iran any good, and–to the contrary–put a number of people’s lives in danger. The same phenomenon seems to be repeating itself with Iraq, along with the same reliance on fictitious numbers, and the same indifference to the actual safety of people there in pursuit of political as well as personal agendas. Human rights work is built on determining the facts of violations and establishing accountability for them; that is what HRW will work to do.

What dissembling absurdity. Decisions arrived at by pontificating don’t count, Brian. The war and its politics are central to this question.

“The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do.” Samuel P. Huntington

The question of fault is settled – the war and it’s attendant mass murder is entirely and solely the fault of the Democrats and Republicans and their English partners or client state. depending on whether you’re to the Department of State or the Foreign Office.

In terms of Iraqi GLBT folks it includes not just the half dozen or so real people in prison but the much larger number of real people that have been lynched by mobs or hunted down, tortured and murdered by US armed and trained jihadist deaths squads. In Iran it probably includes thousands of GLBT victims of state terror and in Pakistan and Afghanistan it includes victims of lynching and jihadist death squads.

It’s engendered by the mass murders of over a million real in the invasions and occupations. That is not over, not history and it’s still going on. It creates a climate that permits these killings by driving people towards islamist fundamentalism. The same is true in Afghanistan, Pakistani, Palestine, and Iran.

Part of the solution is to support IraqiLGBT by broadening support for our bothers and sisters there. Publicity, especially the kind that puts US and EU governments on the hot seat and demands answers is key to this effort. That’s why we should demand that they immediately create an open asylum policy.

Yoyu can’t shove your head deep enough in the sand to ignore the war and if you accept Obama’s lies that it’s over you’re a fool. For their part zionists are perfectly willing to see American GI’s and muslim civilians die if it helps insure their colonial intrusion in Palestine. But the rest of us should consider activism in the antiwar movement as a valuable side effort to the fight to save GLBT folks in South Asia and Palestine.

The situation will not get better until all US military; CIA and mercenary forces are pulled back to the US and the holdings of US oil companies are seized without compensation. Likewise, the situation in Palestine will not resolve until the US cuts its multibillion dollar funding for zionist apartheid and ethnic cleansing.

Two) I wouldn’t put much credence in what HRW’s Scott Long says or does either way… True.

Three) Anybody wanting 100% accurate and verifiable information isn’t going to get it… True in part. IraqiLGBT has a good reputation, operates in Iraq and is known for using the funds it raises for the purposes it raises them.

Four) Asylum policy needs desperate reform.

Yes, but it won’t happen except in a few cases, like those of Medhi Kazemi and Pegah Emambakhsh, both young Iranians who won temporary asylum after massive defense/publicity campaigns. The EU, with the exception of England, seems to be trying to come to grips with the situation but for the most part muslims, GLBT or not, have as hard a time getting out of the ever expending US imposed war zones in South Asia as Jews did escaping Hitler’s Europe. Muslim refugees are treated like pariahs and islamophobia is rampant, and often government policy in most NATO countries.

1) Left, right, up, down, 9-11, etc. are all irrelevant to this debate and don’t belong here. This is not a question of whose “fault” this is — an academic question anyway since it’s long since happened — but rather what can be done to save REAL lives.

2) I wouldn’t put much credence in what HRW’s Scott Long says or does either way. He carried water for the Iranian regime’s torture and execution of gay men when it looked like his “authority” as “the world’s only qualified international gay rights expert” was undermined. There’s also ample evidence that several of his “sources” are just sock puppets of his. One “supporter” of his — who relentlessly attacked Peter Tatchell and other gay activists on the international scene who dared comment on these issues without his permission — just happened to be posting from HRW’s New York office, where Scott works.

3) Anybody wanting 100% accurate and verifiable information isn’t going to get it. Anybody who claims to be able to deliver it — “expert” or otherwise — is probably either lying or misled. The real question is whether this situation is plausible, and whether it’s happened to enough people to warrant designation as a “troubling trend.” The answer to both these questions is “yes.”

4) Asylum policy needs desperate reform. Abuse, torture and murder of LGBT people in the Middle East is a real, tangible problem — and those who escape to the west often find unsympathetic or even outright hostile courts that dispatch them back to their home countries to face certain torture and death. The United Kingdom has the worst record of a western country on this front, but every European and North American country needs better policy. There also needs to be some resources to help spirit the refugees out of their countries and to freedom.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04.....038;emc=th

To answer see here (about donating) http://resistanceisfruitful.wo.....-marriage/

and here (about Ali’s credibility) http://www.guardian.co.uk/comm.....gay-rights

Hope that clarifies.

Call some friends, set a time and call the press.

“SF Supes To Consider Resolution On Gay Rights in Iraq
Posted: 10:42 pm PDT April 6, 2009

SAN FRANCISCO — Gay rights activists in San Francisco gathered on Monday evening to lay flowers on symbolic tombs representing slain gay Iraqis.

They called for gay rights in Iraq after various media outlets reported that an Iraqi Interior minister said six gay men were killed in recent weeks after their families disowned them.

Supervisor Bevan Dufty said that some of the Iraqi victims had the word “pervert” in Arabic written on their bodies, leaving no doubt why they were targeted.

“This is the beginning of what could be untold slaughter of innocent people,” said Dufty. “Tribal councils, basically put out death sentences on people. That’s obviously far afield from anything related to democracy.”

On Tuesday, the San Francisco Board of Supervisors is scheduled to take up a resolution supporting Gay Rights in Iraq.

Human rights groups say they have documented the persecution of gays in Iraq and say at least four hundred gay people have been killed there in the past several years.

They say the situation has worsened in recent weeks, as religious clerics are condemning homosexuality from their pulpits and that has triggered a new wave of violence.

Bay Area activist Gary Virginia called on people around the world to go to their political leaders and demand an inquiry.

The San Francisco Resolution would call on the White House, the State Department, and Congress to condemn and investigate the latest killings in Iraq.

Gay Rights activist Michael Petrelis says international pressure can make a difference.

“I don’t know about acceptance, in the middle east, of gays,” he says, “but hopefully we can get to a point, of tolerance for gays.”

Thanks to M Peterlis via Gays Without Borders http://gayswithoutborders.wordpress.com/

Maybe, but Turkey is getting more fundamentalist also. I’ve actually talked to GLBT’s from the Middle East and they no longer feel that Turkey is safe, although Turkey is much better than, say, Syria.

So either lend your money or voices or writing skills, etc. to help STOP this travesty of GLBTQ murder & brutality in our current history of the world or SHUT THE FUCK UP!

Thank you.

@alan brickman: I have a lot of problems with Israel. Its attitude about lgbt’s is not one of them. My favorite comment was some lesbian during the Intifada saying, “I know if i lived in the Palestinian Authority, they’d kill me. But I still support them.” Uh-huh.

@hardmannyc: Have you been to Israel? The ultra-orthodox are quite a political force there. Recently, the women in the Israeli cabinet were airbrushed out of the official photo so as not to upset their tender feelings. If their anti-female intolerance is that strong, imagine how they feel about us.

Is Amnesty International taking action on this? If not, they should. Their letters campaign has been shown to be a grassroots that has direct results.

In the same vein: any one of us can write directly AND DIPLOMATICALLY to the Iraqi government expressing our concern.
Countries which abuse human rights pay attention to letters, and it has been shown to influence many cases.

Make sure there is a CC on the letter to your local government representative, your minister of foreign affairs, the British government, whatever media you want to include, and to the U.N. just so they know other people are seeing the letter as well.

A campaign similar to this made the Afghan government pledge very quickly to repeal their recent family law. I assume it was big news in the U.S. as it was here.

Paul, I’m not sure which one or number of us you were referring to, but with respect, even if the debate does get pretty low at times, it is important not only to act but understand WHY we act. For that reason if for no other, it is important to suffer fools like us.

There’s nothing more dangerous than a movement which is angry, blind, ignorant and stupid.

http://madikazemi.blogspot.com.....-help.html

Obviously you won’t hear much complaint from our Evangelical Republican leaders condemning this barbarism.

one – organize publicty releases locally and intist that the national groups do the same. I’m convinced that’s what saved Medhi.

two – demonstrations where and when possible. No one needs anyones permission, just call some friends and local groups, get a banner and some signs and publicize what you’re doing. Then call the press.

three – scandalize the US’s governments role in all this. They run the country and they should stop the murders. Actually, they’re the only ones who can.

Your point is well taken but we always have to deal with zionists who interject themselves whenever this comes up. They have to be answered at some point.

Anyone here got any practical ideas about how to support Iraqi LGBT? Or would you rather engage in a wankfest?

The problem is that he refuses to see anything that is out of the range of the toilet paper tube he looks through to gather his information.

Things were quieter under Saddam? Sure. They were quieter in Yugoslavia under Broz Tito as well. Guess what happens when you create a power vacuum. Power brokers rush in to stake a claim and settle old scores. Government troops and police are committing atrocities? Do you think they are all working solely for the government, given how weak it is?

And is U.S., British and Soviet activity in the region responsible for making things worse? Absolutely; there’s a good chance many of those countries would be liberal democracies and not theocracies or beseiged occupations if we had been more hands-off. Then again – someone was going to do it; if not us, then the russians or chinese would have, so it was in a way inevitable.

But the situation is also a bit more nuanced than he makes out; you can’t blame it all on the west, the russians and the Israelis, and ignore the other racial, political and religious tensions in the region.

And for that matter you can’t just blame it on three people (even if they are presidents) and refuse to accept the responsibility we ALL bear for making things worse over there. We live an easy, lavish and secure lifestyle on the backs of those people and the rest of the developing world. To simply blame rulers and ignore our common responsibility is hypocritical and childish.

@Bill Perdue:
And you needn’t be so coy.