Did you know that not all of the gay community thinks Barack Obama is moving too slowly on gay rights? Sure, this website might be ragging on the president, but we certainly don’t speak for everyone! Some gays are still in love with America’s first black chief, and think his pace on furthering equal rights is just fine. And by “some,” writes ESPN The Magazine‘s LZ Granderson, we’re supposed to be referring to the black community.
Granderson’s basic premise: It’s the white gay community who finds fault in Obama’s slowness on gay rights, while black gays — often separated, both ideologically and physically from their white counterparts — disagree, but find their viewpoints go unnoticed and unreported in the media.
He makes a few good points, like how gay pride celebrations often skew largely white, how the effort to fight legislation like Prop 8 is a white-led effort, and how at the Human Rights Campaign’s annual fundraiser in Washington D.C., the only blacks on stage were the entertainment. But his basic premise is flawed: Just because there is self-segregation among the white and black gay communities doesn’t mean you can slap either of them under the “anti-” or “pro-Obama” umbrella.
Black Americans, gay or not, take particular pride in seeing one of their own in the White House. As they should. But all Americans, no matter their skin color, should share in that pride of seeing the diversity that makes up the United States finally represented in the highest levels of office.
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
And the same holds true for calling out the president on his faltering campaign promises. He did not promise to be a “fierce advocate” to the white gay community, but the entire gay community. We should all be demanding he keep his word, because we are all impacted. So we’re a bit miffed when when Granderson invokes the “gay is not the new black” premise to explain why the black gay community just isn’t as critical of Obama.
So while the white mouthpiece of the gay community shakes an angry finger at intolerance and bigotry in their blogs and on television, blacks and other minorities see the dirty laundry. They see the hypocrisy of publicly rallying in the name of unity but then privately living in segregated pockets. And then there is the history.
The 40th anniversary of Stonewall dominated Gay Pride celebrations around the country, and while that is certainly a significant moment that should be recognized, 40 years is nothing compared with the 400 blood-soaked years black people have been through in this country. There are stories some blacks lived through, stories others were told by their parents and stories that never had a chance to be told.
While those who were at Stonewall talk about the fear of being arrested by police, 40 years ago, blacks talked about the fear of dying at the hands of police and not having their bodies found or murder investigated. The 13th Amendment was signed in 1865, and it wasn’t until 1948 that President Harry S Truman desegregated the military. That’s more than an 80-year gap.
Not to be flip, but Miley Cyrus is older than Bill Clinton’s “don’t ask, don’t tell.” That doesn’t mean that the safety of gay people should be trivialized or that Obama should not be held accountable for the promises he made on the campaign trail. But to call this month’s first-ever White House reception for GLBT leaders “too little too late” is akin to a petulant child throwing a tantrum because he wants to eat his dessert before dinner. This is one of the main reasons why so many blacks bristle at the comparison of the two movements — everybody wants to sing the blues, nobody wants to live them.
He adds: “This lack of perspective is only going to alienate a black community that is still very proud of Obama and is hypersensitive about any criticism of him, especially given he’s been in office barely six months.”
Alas, being “hypersensitive” over a president is not a good enough reason to give the president a pass, even if that’s the demand supposedly being made by the divisive white gay community. When John F. Kennedy became the first Irish Catholic president, the Irish Catholic community celebrated — but they were no more excused by giving him leniency than another demographic.
Barack Obama may be many things — a source of hope and inspiration, a great orator, a fantastic brand — but he is also the man charged with leading this country toward equality. No shade of skin color can change, nor argue with that. And Granderson’s whole “black gays are fine with Obama because white gays won’t invite them to their parties” shtick isn’t just unproductive, but rooted in the type of debilitating logic that only helps impede equality. (Not to mention whites get to claim “half” of Obama, too, for whatever it’s worth.)
Just try the reverse scenario: A white president who dragged his feet on, say, aiding the poor, but the impoverished white community refused to join poor blacks in criticizing the president because he was one of their own. Not only does it not make sense, it helps no one. This “hypersensitivity” excuse, frankly, is crap.
SM
Here is a tip, when you bitch and moan about every little thing. No one will notice when you have a legitimate complaint.
LOL…at claiming Obama is hypersensitive to criticism. What tool writes this BS. He was accused of running around with terrorists during the camapign and Republicans are still looking for his birth certificate. I dobut he cares if you all want to join that low class crowd.
D-Sun
This is gonna get messy…
SM
Obama survivied Chicago politics. You think he cares about people acting like jerks? You think he is weak? Try again.
Queerty puts Obama in the headlines because he is an easy target and they make money. If they were interested in LGBT issues they would be focused on the Democrats who are not supporting his agenda.
InExile
@SM: I hate to do it, but I agree with you. Those blue dog democrats are helping the repugs take down health care.
The sad thing is without civil rights, we can only focus on one issue civil rights. If the democrats really want our help, they will move on legislation making us equal. Then we will be able to help democrats push the agenda. Sad situation.
SM
@InExile:
Getting the Matthew Shepard Act passed is Federal Law putting LGBT in a protected class which will change your argument for every other issue.
Obama passing strong healthcare is your ticket to the Republican Base being out of power for your civil rights for a long time. Its called strategy and Republicans know this. They admitted it today.
For you all to expect your entire agenda to be passed first, without supporting anything else is crazy.
My brother is gay and health care reform is more important to him than DOMA.
pick your battles.
InExile
@SM: Guess it depends where you sit. I have Universal health care here in France and it is excellent. I, however cannot sponsor my partner of 14 years for a green card so of coarse my priority in equality.
wondermann
I knew Queerty would ask this question. Is not that we are less critical, we are just realistic about change and what’s truly important.
Also, most of us understand that civil rights takes time, most of went through and still go through it.
We also don’t have privilege issues either. I can go on, but I will stop there.
And I agree with SM
wondermann
On a side note…Matthew Shepard Act should be the main issue we all should pressure Obama and Congress on. That act protects all of us. To be honest, DADT and DOMA are important, but they only reach a fraction of us.
Cam
@SM: for the first time, I agree with you. After Chicago politics not much is going to bother Obama.
InExile
@wondermann: 1200 Federal rights only help a fraction? What about your friends that are in relationships, don’t you care about them?
My friends that are married in California paid $1200 more in income tax than a straight married couple and with the current economy that is money they needed. DOMA is the reason they had to pay more in taxes, those 1,200 federal rights effect people’s lives.
InExile
@wondermann: DADT is a law that makes gay citizens according to federal law worse than convicted felons. Do you think you are less deserving of a military job than a convicted felon?
4getit
Identity politics will be the downfall of our nation. The only restorative idea is that of the Constitution. Through it will justice prevail.
I’m biracial like Obama and am getting oh so tired with the notion that he is black, but not white. Or vice versa. I’m the kind of mixed race individual that transcends race. It would be wise if everyone else caught up too.
InExile
@4getit: Yea, I just do not get this race baiting stuff. I am white but my parents taught me there are two kinds of people, good and bad and I agree!
4getit
@InExile:
The debate over race rages on, meanwhile people still don’t have equal rights, the environment is going to hell in a handbasket, and our Constitution remains in a tattered state (Patriotic Act) … Good is what is in the best interests of our future. Bad is the worst of our past kept in perpetual motion in our present, preventing evolution of mind and a reality worth calling Home.
Your parents sound very cool.
Chomsky'sSexualPleateu
Are black gays less critical of Obama? Slightly. I read both the black LGBT blogs and the white (except in name) LGBT blogs and it seems to me like the blacks have a more realistic understanding of the process. Not to say there aren’t Obama apologists (and on both sides) but the gays who are foaming at the mouth everyday (who are usually white) just don’t get the fact that there are other issues to worry about. You think most black LGBT people are going to worry about gay issues when so many are having problems with healthcare?
Unfortunately, as long as massive group inequalities exist, humanity willingly will not and more importantly, unwillingly cannot rise above identity politics.
InExile
@4getit: Funny because my Mom is 82, not exactly a spring chicken but very progressive none the less.
Our politicians are bought and paid for by the corporations and the insurance companies, hence the battle over health care. Most of those so called blue dog democrats trying to derail health care all accepted millions from insurance lobbies. We are so screwed.
Camilo
Wow this is just…ugh.
Not all non-black gays are as critical about Obama as you guys are. In fact, when I actually talk to real gay and Lesbian people (not the anti-Obama peepz that hang out on your site), I find there is not this large amount of discontent…yet. They wish he could have done SOMETHING BIG rather than the small things he’s done, but most of us understand it’s part of his plan to make a big change that is lasting and permanent.
The other thing is…he hasn’t been able to do very many BIG sweeping things since taking office (people are still jobless, health care not available for all, we still rely on foreign oil, we are still in Iraq etc etc etc) yet there is no doubt he is WORKING on these things. So why would people expect him to deliver gay rights AHEAD of anything else? It’s delusional and an unrealistic expectation in the first 6 months of this kind of Presidency at this point in history.
But that’s Queerty for you.
Carmex for Cold Sores
@InExile:
Yeah screwed but with no safe protection….Can I ask the government to wear a condom before it rapes me?
Oh the Irony.
🙂
InExile
@Camilo: He does not seem to be ending the wars, in fact he has expanded the Afghanistan war. He has plenty of people to delegate to so making excuses for why your own rights are not so important is just excusing his inaction. We will get nowhere my giving our elected officials a pass when it comes to our civil rights. They need to know we are serious about equality. If we do not take our own equality seriously, no one else will either.
InExile
@Carmex for Cold Sores: It is so difficult to have any hope these days for anything!
Carmex for Cold Sores
@InExile:
Apparently, thanks Queerty, I can hope to have whiter teeth so that my bright smile outshines the miserable landscape of society.
petted
So according to Granderson gays have been only around since the 1960s now if that were true maybe that whole ex-gay thing would be credible of course since some gays were set on fire during the witch burning during the middle ages and at risk of being thrown to wild animals in the Byzantine empire well the point is that slavery is most definitely an affront to human integrity it is not the only one.
As far as our current President’s efforts – I’m happy with the majority of his domestic and foreign policy efforts so far even in regards to Venezuela-Honduras/Cuba, however I’m hardly impressed by his civil rights efforts thus far they are paltry and while a lot of that has to do with congressional lollygagging our President hasn’t done much to reign things in. There may be lots of tomorrows but there is only one today and believe me, I’m well aware of the complications, ramifications, etc but that doesn’t mean I need to say he’s doing a good job on equal rights though I’ll certainly say he seems to be doing a good job as president.
wondermann
@InExile: I don’t but, in the bigger picture, I would fight for the bill that protects the majority of us.
The military is a choice, if they don’t want us there…Why would we go?
However, I want DADT changed. I just don’t see it as a priority like ENDA and Hate Crimes Act.
M Shane
@No. 16 · Camilo ; You’re entirely right. I don’t know why we would even suppose that black gay people yet white ones who have any sense think that Obama is any kind of slackard. I think that gay people who come to this site, leave pretty soon because of the extreme bias. As I’ve commented before, I’m beginning to think that they are a Right wing front.
Obama has just been there and these folks seem to think that he is gouiing to pull some Bush magic and step all over the Constitution again to accomplish what they want. One of the greatist changes he has made is that he is doing things legally and putting first things first.
Journalists have to be hyperdense to completely forget that the U.S. is in the middle of what looks like a great depression. Yet he is taking that in and making tracks on the really significant issues.
The Gay Numbers
I guess folks like Pam from Pam’s House of Blend amongst others who are black and gay that criticize Obama do not count? The reality is that this is one of those games President Obama’s apologists and haters both like to play. Namely pit one against the other to distract from what they are doing. Here this person is making excuses and trying to rationalize it. How the hell would he know what black gays support? Has he polled us?
InExile
@wondermann: I understand where you are coming from and I agree ENDA and Hate Crimes should be first. But I still do no appreciate being considered under federal law worse than a convicted felon.
SM
Everything for the Obama Administration depends on Healthcare. Obama knows this. The Republicans know they can break him by it. Find out if the same Democratic Senators going against Obama on Healthcare are the same ones hurting LGBT issues.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiK3orn-Ris
Chitown Kev
Me? Black gay me criticize Obama? Perish the thought, I would NEVER do such a thing.
Chitown Kev
@The Gay Numbers:
Uh, thank you, Numbers.
hephaestion
What a horrible question to ask, Queerty. If Obama were gay, I would surely be less quick to criticize. So what?
saintlike
Oh my god…
Queerty’s writers are seriously strapped for ideas, right?
This HAS to be it. I’m black AND gay (if some of you can believe that >.>’) and I DO think Obama is moving way too slow.
I mean, do I have to spell it out for you?
Enough with the race card, it’s boring. *yawn*
Chitown Kev
@saintlike:
LOL.
Actually, I think this is a decent and interesting question. Unfortunately, Queerty has been mired in so much race baiting over so many issues that anyy type of rational discussion on this question is lost.
The Gay Numbers
@hephaestion: again- who hav eyou polled to decide what black gay people think on anything? How dare you accept this as true without any polling to back it up?
reluctantcommenter
Granderson disregards huge portions of gay history, The Mattachine Society (1950), The Society for Human Rights (1924), the Nazi Persecution of gays and lesbians, Magnus Hirschfeld’s activism beginning in 1896, and much more. In fact, politically motivated accusations of homosexuality were used during the Inquisition, and to arrest and execute the Knights Templar in the early 1300’s. That’s over 700 years ago. One could argue that, in the western world, gay’s have been persecuted since Constantine I began enforcing church policy as law. One could argue that, but I don’t think it’s necessary to demonstrate the idea that gay’s have waited long enough for equal rights.
I say this not to try and trump the long history of slavery in the US and Europe, just to point out that there’s a lot more than 40 years of LGBT history. And if Granderson wants to make social commentary, he should do a little research before.
PewPew
I’ve read his article a few times, and I feel like Granderson is flirting with the notion that white people can’t criticize Barack without pissing off black people. While I don’t think he’s in a position to make such a sweeping statement about the black community, I also think it’s a dangerous idea.
I know it’s only been six months, and his presidency is a historic one, but he also inherited a lot of problematic issues, including gay rights. He’s going to get criticism from all types on all sides. It’s important people aren’t made to appear racially insensitive for simple political commentary.
wondermann
However, LZ has a point. With John Averosis, Dan Savage and other white gays males calling Obama a bigot, liar, and every other name in the book, of course this is going pissed off black people. Especially the ones who already believe we are sinners.
The Gay Numbers
@PewPew: Since he can’t speak for all black people, whatever else follows about how it is a dangerous idea becomes you doubling his mistake. He does not speak for black people, and you should not then run with his argument by pretending that he does. What’s pissing me off a long this thread are people who keep acting like one black guy writing an article that is just his opinion can speak for all the rest of us. It’s offensive. You are not polling. YOu are not asking. You are buing into him telling us all how we feelw ithout asking. The question is why are some of you willing to buying into this frame?
InNeedOfStableScreenName
Are black gays less critical of Obama because of his skin color? First you must ask whether or not black gays are less critical of Obama period. I read through the popular black LGBT blogs as well as the (white) mainstream LGBT blogs and it usually comes down to this
1. Most of the owners of the black gay blogs are highly critical of Obama on gay issues. They are in direct opposition with most of their commentors in that the commentors
2. show more of a reluctance to sell Obama down the river just yet. Many expressed the view that there is much more important things to them than gay marriage. They sometimes refer to hate crimes laws or healthcare as examples. Even then, black LGBT blog writers usually give Obama props on a variety of issues when its deserved.
3. The (white) mainstream gay blogs on other hand are usually either reluctant to post anything positive about Obama or will write a post critizing him. It gets worst in the comment section where commentators seem devoid of real political knowledge or desire to personally influence gay rights while constantly hurling vitriol at Obama. And certain gay blogs are guilty of this extreme criticism too.
To end this comment I’d like to say that there isn’t anything wrong with critizing Obama’s policies but when you see a strong racial disconnect on a certain opinion, you have to ask why. Sometimes it isn’t as simple as conscience racial politics. Many, maybe even most, black LGBT people are facing a grave health threat that bares teeth at their very existence from homelessness, to HIV, to malnutrition, to mental health, attacks from all sides that many white gays aren’t facing. Many black gays don’t have the luxury of sitting in their middle class homes, or apartments (roommates or not) equipped with skills to handle most economic disturbances and spend their days criticizing elected leaders on things that aren’t even on their top 3 list of things personal to them, 3 things that may be essential to their survival.
Like it or not, identity politics or not, its all about the hierarchy of needs. When you understand that it all mostly falls into place.
boq
my experience is that some black people can become really racist if a white person critisizes BO. they make jokes and ridicule whites calling them “pale” and racist when it is they who are being really hostile and threatening. that is how BO won, by calling everyone a racist. he even had the b@lls to call HILLARY a racist which is not only a shame on him that he will never erase and will be hated by millions for doing so ….. but it is ionic that it was the clintons who made sure the black vote was secure by opening all those voting places in urban neighborhoods. they built their own sinking ship. bottom line is BO has stirred the destruction of race relations. tensions could not possibly be worse and it is coming from the “hypersensitives” … well tough crap they better get used to the complaining. this isn’t china yet … he is a phony and a liar like every other fake liar of a poltician. he’s expanding W’s war and now they don’t jave crap to say abut it after railing about it for 8 yrs. he’s bailing everyone out as per W and there will be double digit unemployment and they will still praise their king … he isn’t my messiah – he’s just another liar. I don’t care who is too sensitive anymore the honeymoon is over and all of us RACISTS will carry on with life as usual and they will just have to deal. BO has NO urban plan he laughs in everyones face.
Lloyd Baltazar
All I care about is the fact that Barack Obama promised Gays and Lesbians equal rights and that is why I voted for him.
Now that he is in office, I expect him to fulfill his promises and keep his word as he is supposed to.
And I don’t want to get racial here, but the Black gay community has many problems among themselves in taking pride in the fight for Gay Equal Rights. Some of them are blinded by their own social struggles that they sometimes do not see that they are also a part of the Gay community—and need to speak up for the voice for LGBT equality.
And more importantly is the need to rebuke idiot journalist like that black man that was featured on this article. Ignorance much? I’ll keep the rest of my comments until the day when I see Black people aggressively fight for LGBT rights OPENLY just as the whites do.
SM
No One has any business being critical of Obama this early is his Presidency. Its impossible to see how any of his policies will play out. Either get on board and help him fulfill his agenda or get the hell out of the way.
All you people want tons of hope and change without working for it and not giving a shit about anyone else. NICE!
SM
This is probably one of the best ideas I’ve seen. You don’t even need HRCs money etc. Just use all the social networking sites to make it viral and include postcards to Senators and Representatives etc. Millions~
http://www.postcardstothepresident.com/
ben
@SM: amazing. thanks
Chitown Kev
@Lloyd Baltazar:
Uh, excuse me, but (I repeat after The Gay Numbers) exactly how do you know all of this about the black gay community (which is no more of “a community”, in many ways, than the white gay community)? What polling have you done? who have you talked to? Are these opinions the same across class, education, and religion in the black gay community? You don’t know do you?
boq
when mccain’s citizenship was in questio because he was born in the Panama Canal zone because his father was serving America and not a Polygamist like Baracky’s dad, mccain furnidhed not only his birth certificate but every single possoble document he could furnish. on the other hand, the white house is spending millions and millions of dollars to continie to hide not only Barks birth certificate but his schooling records too. so I don’t give a rats ass who is boo hooing …. get used to it beyotches because its going to get even worse ….. and the pleasure of knowing how angry the obots get amd how they are losing more and more cresibility ever day ….. even the kool-aid gang is starting to wake up ans jump the sinking ship that is Obama Winfrey. bye bye one termer…..not even jimmy carter the failure was as stupid as obama. I love how his teleprompter fell and smashed into a thousand pieces and he says “duhhhhh sorry” and he just goes on reading from the other one like that kind of thing happens every day!!! ‘”‘LOL!!!
InExile
@boq: What is your take on Mechelle Obama and her post election lack of concern for gays?
PewPew
@The Gay Numbers:
That’s why I said this:
“…I don’t think he’s in a position to make such a sweeping statement about the black community,…”
I intentionally put distance between him and a larger group of people. I was criticizing his article, not the black community.
galefan2004
Hmm…
This article exists to:
1) Criticize black gays (that is normal here anyways)
2) Criticize Obama
3) Try to separate out the black gays (that is also normal)
4) Paint the white gays with a more positive brush
You see the problem is that if you find just one black gay critical of Obama then your “all black gays are still in love with Obama” rhetoric is destroyed.
galefan2004
@SM: Obviously he is sensitive to criticism or he wouldn’t be having a melt down over the failure to get anything accomplished. Its all starting weigh on him. Look to see Obama wanting to turn the reigns over to Hilary in 2012 as he goes back to being a do nothing but vote present Senator.
galefan2004
@SM: Obama “survived” Chicago politics by not taking a stance on anything. Hell, he spent the majority of his time as a Chicago politician running for US Senator and the majority of the time as a US Senator running for president. In all truthfulness, the man is about as qualified to be president as Sarah Palin. They both can give good speeches and rally their base, and that is about all either of them can do.
InExile
@galefan2004: Leadership is missing, it’s a big problem for him. I was just reading an article how the congress is doing what THEY want not what HE wants, it is a problem.
Andrew
Good points Qty. Granderson’s commentary is idiotic and replete with false dichotomies. Would he would have us believe that no gay person was subjected to violence and discrimination prior to the Stonewall riots? Would he would have us believe that a gay white person cannot, by definition, be an advocate for equality without also being a hypocrite and closet-segregationist?
Granderson attempts to gain moral leverage by contrasting the black experience under slavery/Jim Crow with the LGBT experience under homophobia and centuries of intolerance and vilification. His contrast falls flat as NO ONE presenting any cogent argument on this issue would attempt to EQUATE the two! The black experience and gay experience are not the same; They are two parallel struggles for existence with dignity and self-determination, each with its particular history. In this context, equating the two would be as useless as contrasting the two.
The violence of oppression, whether against people of color or against LGBT people, CAN be defeated. Whether it WILL be defeated depends, in large part, on how much time the oppressed spend fighting each other instead of fighting the oppressors. The “real” homophobes and racists love nothing more than to watch us fight amongst ourselves. Granderson’s arguments help no one.
galefan2004
@SM: Your brother obviously has no respect for himself or he would have called you on your crap a very long time ago. Also, health care isn’t going to pass. It simply isn’t going to happen. You will never get a plan that includes a $1000 fine on anyone that chooses not to have health care past the blue dog democrats because they know damn well such a plan would cost them their seat in the next election.
Health care is still a choice. There are private plans that are often affordable. People CHOOSE not to have health care. Those people choose not to have health care because they are HEALTHY overall, and any blue dog Dem that supports fining the people in their own community $1000 because they don’t agree with their personal choice will be out on their ass in a conservative district.
galefan2004
@wondermann: I respectfully disagree. The Mathew Shepard Act does absolutely nothing in all areas of the country (most of them including Wyoming which was going to sentence Mathew Shepard’s killers to death until his parents intervened) to help. ENDA is where we should be focusing our time because it really doesn’t matter if someone beats us down or kills us if we are living on the streets because no one in our community is willing to hire us.
galefan2004
@Camilo: You can’t be stupid enough to think that Obama is working on Iraq. Obama chose to send more troops to Iraq as president yet campaigned on bringing troops home. Obama chose to start a war effort in Afghanistan before ending the war in Iraq. Over all, Obama has failed on everything he has done. He hasn’t fixed the economy because he failed to do so. He hasn’t fixed the health care crisis because his plan isn’t even accepted by the Democrats. He hasn’t fixed the war effort because he chose to continue it. Obama is 4 more years of Bush with better lip service.
galefan2004
@hephaestion: If Obama were gay I’d ride his ass. Him being gay would make it even worse that he obviously doesn’t give a damn about our rights accept when it comes to paying lip service to us when the Democrats need more of our money.
galefan2004
@SM: You are wrong because our criticism isn’t based on his slow moving actions. Its based on his agenda. His agenda isn’t what he sold us to be elected. Even the congress doesn’t want to back them because they all have an election to worry about next year. Anyone that gets behind Obama right now isn’t going to be re-elected next year because his plans are completely out of touch with the will of the people. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Democratic candidates run next year with the fact that they don’t support Obama’s radical agenda as part of their platform. If they don’t, then they might as well just hand the seat over to the Repugs. Obama’s polling results in all areas are dropping faster than GW’s did.
galefan2004
@InExile: You are confused if you think that the president leads the congress. It just doesn’t happen that way. Congress is supposed to answer solely to the people of their district. Its the people of their district that don’t agree with anything Obama wants. The congress is doing their job. Obama needs to learn to work with congress because they work for the American people. Right now Obama works for himself and whatever lobbyist is paying him the most. No one should be surprised when Obama’s tax return for next year is bigger than GW’s in both 2000 and 2004.
galefan2004
@Andrew: I wouldn’t make the argument that slavery was acceptable. It clearly wasn’t. However, on the flip side, I’m not sure how many black heteros know what it feels like to have your own parents tell you that they will not welcome the person you love into their home. I’m not sure how many black heteros know what it feels like to have to introduce your boyfriend to your parents as just a friend because you are worried about having a place to live if they find out otherwise. I’m not sure how many black heteros worry about holding hands in a public place because you will either be thrown out of that public place or face possibly repercussions from the community in terms of personal safety.
The black struggle and the gay struggle do not resemble each other because blacks were accepted as people a long time ago, and in many parts of this country gay people are still fighting for the rights to even be accepted as people.
InExile
@galefan2004: I know the President does not lead congress. My point is, when Bush wanted his agenda to happen he took the issues directly to the American people in prime time speeches, Obama has not. I know Bush was a terrible President but i think he beats Obama hands down in the leadership department.
Why do you think Pelosi pushed so many politicians to back Obama in the primary? She knew HER agenda would not fly with Hillary. Hillary would push her agenda through and Pelosi was terrified of having to actually do something good and meaningful for the American people. Well she got her wish and here we are.
Peter
This country provides roads, Police protection, the FBI, schools, streets, water systems, weather forecasts, etc,etc; why don’t we get health care too? Other countries that provide complete health care; such as the UK, do so at half the cost of our present system, and with coverage of 100% of its population.
Also, who organized and trained, and equiped the Taliban in the first place????; when it was fighting Russia. It was the US government; just like it equiped the Iraq army when it was fighting Iran. We must live and remember our mistakes.
prissysissy
1. The Henderson article came out last week. Were you, Queerty race-baiting writers, so busy with your KKK rallies, that you got around to it only now? I was surprised I did not see this crap from you earlier.
2. The Henderson article is full of inaccuracies, particularly about the history of LGBT rights struggle, as some commenter has already pointed out. It also back-dates the black rights struggle by 200 years. You really should not take seriously an article on civil rights that is written by a sports journalist.
3. Likewise, you should not take seriously ANY article/blog post on politics/civil rights written by gay Klan enthusiasts like Queerty.
4. Even without being black, I can say definitively that not all black gays give Obama a pass. Example – the excellent Pam’s House Blend, which is a blog worth reading for its coverage of LGBT rights issues, quite unlike this one.
galefan2004
@InExile: The only part of Bush’s agenda that were ever passed came out of 9-11. The problem is that the American people simply do not support Obama’s agenda in whole. He can talk about it to the American people until he is blue in the face, but no one is willing to listen. People have a huge issue with families that already can’t afford health care being fined $1000 if they don’t have it. That is a huge stickler of the Obama health care plan. That is the stickler that will drive any conservative based Democrat away because they won’t be getting reelected if they sign on for that aspect of his health care plan. The problem isn’t that health care for the majority of Americans does not need reformed, it is simply that this is not the way to do it. The people that are suffering are the borderline where they make just a little to much to qualify for Medicaid but not enough to pay for health care. That could be fixed by simply redefining Medicaid/Medicare to cover these people. Hell, you could start by stripping off the financing in Medicaid/Medicare to pay for abortions and pregnancies of unwed uneducated mothers who have babies simply to stay on welfare.
galefan2004
@prissysissy: All this is all well and good, but instead of attacking the BLACK man that wrote this article you attack QT for calling attention to it on this site. That is part of your willingness to stand up for the black man at every given opportunity. Oh, I’m sorry, I’m being racist for saying that. Although, its ok for you to attack white people because they call attention to a member of the black community (NOT YOU) while escaping the racist label in your eyes because you are a minority.
prissysissy
@Galefan2004#62: you probably did not read item #4 in my comments.
As for criticizing the ESPN/CNN columnist (it appeared on CNN), you presume too much about what I did/did not do. You expect my to direct my criticism here, in this trashy tabloid-y blog, or rather in some more mainstream places like PHB or HP, where my criticism might actually be read by people with open minds?
And yes, you are being a reflexive racist, much in the same way Henderson was being a reflexive racist too.
Dabq
Interesting question, but, how can this guy speak for all blacks? That group of people is no more monolithic than nay other group of gays. And, there are plenty of snow queens who have been bashing Obama up in here to make it a fact, not all black gays are giving him a pass. And, oddly enough, why is it that the question is posed on this site which has made its bread and butter bashing blacks, gay or straight?
But, like it or not there is a division between white and black gays and the divide is getting wider due to intolerance on both sides.
And Galefan you were posting all weekend how much you don’t like or want to be around blacks and need to be loyal to your people, so, why in the world would you even care?? Still haven’t found that clue that racism is just as wrong as homophobia have you now?
ousslander
@Dabq: what actually is snow queen? I would think you mean some cracker fag or would it be as if some compared posters here to tar babies.
Neither one is excusable but maybe for you respect and non-racist language only works one way.
redherring
where is this perspective coming from? It’s funny how entitled and informed public commentators feel about their ability to deconstruct the minds of black people, while noting that black people aren’t speaking for themselves on these same issues.
redherring
@SM:
what did you read? the comment you’re referring to suggested that black people/gays are hypersensitive to criticisms toward obama.
galefan2004
@Dabq: No, I never once posted that I didn’t like blacks or that I didn’t want to be around them. You completely read that into it. I said that I stand up for my own race; however, that comment was based on my own stupidity which I have admitted to. The fact is that the minorities in this country simply do not get the respect they deserve. While I would like for us to be past the time that we need affirmative action, we are simply not there yet, and for me to even remotely believe that we are was completely wrong. I like Sotomayer. I like black people. I have many black friends (most of them are some very fierce drag queens in Akron that would tell you straight out that I’m not a racist). I have had members of my own family that have been Hispanic (my brother’s ex-wife) and my first actual love was a Hispanic male. Its fun to judge with only half the facts isn’t it?
Racism is wrong. I never said it wasn’t. What I said is that racism is a two way street, and just because you are minority doesn’t mean that you can’t be a racist. There are just as many black racists as white racists but when a black is hating a white just because of the color of their skin people like you claim that is justified. That is where my problem comes in.
galefan2004
@ousslander: He can’t see that snow queen is a racist term because it only applies to whites and its impossible to be black and a racist. In his eyes, the white community deserves every bit of hatred directed at them by the black community because once upon a time some rich white assholes (primarily in the south) bought slaves from black men in Africa.
He is quite happy throwing every white abolitionist and every white civil rights leader under the buss because they are white and deserve it. He can’t imagine how he could possibly be part of the problem and not part of the solution because the problem rest solely on the backs of the white community and blacks are perfect in terms of race relations.
He also fails to realize that the black community is not and never will be the most repressed community in the United States. That “privilege” belongs to the Native Americans that not only were the original slaves but were all but exterminated (many tribes in the eastern half of the country were exterminated) due to racial intolerance.
TANK
@galefan2004:
Write your fuckin’ memoirs! “My first lover was a latin man named Jorge and he was a latin lover…” Read with some brainless drawl…LOL! “I will write more about my latin lover after guiding light. The end, y’all!”
galefan2004
@TANK: Ahh Tank, what is a matter, I put your little bitch ass to rest in another post so you have to come attack me in this one. You seem to be stalking me. I will allow you to bask in my glory because I truly feel sorry for you. As I said before, if you want to direct all your self loathing anger at me I’m all for that if it helps you sleep at night.
Burl
We are compiling Tank’s greatest hits..if you have some Tank’s best comments please forward to http://www.tankfilthhounds.net/
galefan2004
@Burl: I think you are giving the boy more honor than he ever deserves.
wondermann
@galefan2004: That Hilary statement is silly…stop please
galefan2004
@wondermann: I’m sorry that I hit a nerve. I know the truth hurts, but Obama is demonstrating a clear lack of leadership. I didn’t make that the case, I simply realized that it would happen back when he was still in the primary. When you elect someone to be president when he has no real experience and never has taken a stand on any real issue in his entire life then don’t be surprised when you get a man like Mr. Obama in the White House. By the time his one term is up he will have done more damage to the country than GW did in 8 years. He is already making every situation even worse than we ever imagined it could get and he has only been in office for 6 months.
Ricky
galefart: get a job
galefan2004
@Ricky: Is that the best you have got? Seriously? Has it not dawned on you that by being here posting that that you have basically said you have nothing better to do either? Apparently, that line of logic doesn’t affect you.
Ricky
Be prepared to be blamed for your circumstances, no matter how much they may be beyond your control. Think of ways to disabuse the public of common misconceptions. Don’t internalize cruelty or condescension. Let go of your pride–but hold on to your dignity.
TANK
@galefan2004:
Don’t you have any pride? I know being obese it’s difficult to amble around without little kids snickering at you, but this is absurd.
TANK
And I apologize for saying “snickering,” which for you doubtless triggered a craving for snickers.
TANK
I don’t know if black gays are less critical over all–and one can’t really state either way from the granderson piece which I read last week (you have to admit, though…he’s much hotter than dan savage despite dan making a good point).
Steve
@galefan2004:
Yes. Yes. Yes….I’ve said this from the beginning. I never understood why McCain picked Palin because Obama’s inexperience was his biggest problem.
And as for SM, Obama has been in office for six month…1/2 a year…he only has 4 years for certain and 2 effective years (if we cannot count on midterms) if we’re unlucky.
Healthcare could as easily derail the mid-term elections as ENDA, DOMA or DADT so don’t set yourself up to blame it all on us if the mid-terms go sour.
galefan2004
@TANK: Ahh Tank, I respect your right to think what you want. I also respect your right to remain a tired bitter old troll for the rest of your life. Good luck in both pursuits.
Good one. Almost. Except again you are making false assumptions. The only thing you are capable of doing is making false assumptions that mean absolutely nothing. If only you could sell that “skill”.
I love how you value people based on how hot they are. If the hottest man on earth said that gays deserved to burn in hell you would support him based on his level of hotness. I don’t really understand how you live with yourself. You seem overly obsessed with looks. To bad you can’t even pass of your own looks.
galefan2004
@TANK: Seriously speaking? Are you Perez Hilton? I’m just asking because the more stupid your comments get the more I’m inclined to believe that you are nothing more than a characterture. I don’t honestly believe anyone can be that obsessed with looks while putting absolutely no value on the worth of a human being as long as they are an attractive outer shell. I prefer to think that not one person on this earth is really that shallow, so I’m starting to think you don’t believe half the shit you actually say and are just playing a role.
TANK
what’s a “characterture”? Ya caught me! I’m Perez Hilton! Or that new york times fashion reporter, or frank rich, or barbara walters.
Are you bruce vilanche?
TANK
seriously speaking? Christ, you’re a bad writer.
galefan2004
@TANK: I probably misspelled the term, but if I need to explain it to you then it is someone that isn’t real but represents himself as being real. I simply believe that you put on an internet persona because I fail to believe that anyone can be so shallow that they would give Hitler a pass if he had a nice body. However, that is what you seem to portray here on this blog.
galefan2004
@TANK: I’m sorry that you are better than everyone but you still hate yourself. You think I bother to fucking edit blog posts? That is funny if you honestly think that.
TANK
@galefan2004:
So I’m a nazi? Now I’m like hitler or some such raving nonsense? This is priceless. No, in real life I don’t stop to chat with vagrants who are screaming at the air.
galefan2004
@TANK: Ahh, I never called you a Nazi. That is all on you. I simply said that if Hitler had a good body you would desire to fuck him not judge him. That is the way you are. We all know that is the way you are. Maybe you simply are that shallow. Makes no difference to me. I’ve dealt with shallow dumb asses like you all my life. Its nothing new. They always act the same and say the same shit, and the vast majority of the time it is because they are truly miserable “human beings”.
Ricky
Girls, stop it.
afrolito
@galefan2004:
Racism IS wrong. However…
Native americans do not have the “privilege” of being the most repressed group in america. Their plight at the hands of the WHITE MAN, was no more horrific than that of the millions of africans who were kidnapped, exploited, worked to death, raped, and massacred for centuries, by that same WHITE MAN. And for the record, historically there were africans who sold their people (usually prisoners of war from other tribes) to white slave traders, but it was not something done on a grand scale by many. The few who did this had no idea the people they sold were going to the other side of the world, and they certainly didn’t know the details of the horrific fate that awaited them. Black people in the americas are the descendants of the africans who SURVIVED the trans-atlantic journey. Scholars estimate that MILLIONS died, and were just tossed into the sea like waste. That was just the first part of the AFRICAN HOLOCAUST.
On a side note, indigenous tribes throughout the americas often sold their people/enemies to slave traders and conquistadors, which helped play a huge part in their own destruction.
Yes, slavery in the United States, was practiced by a SOME white people in the south (some northern states as well), but the economic and social benefits were, and are enjoyed by ALL white people.
schlukitz
Some people just fan the fires of racism.
Afrolito, however, feels the need to come on these threads with a high-powered, commercial version of a gasoline leaf blower to ignite a bonfire every chance he gets so that he can make a blanket condemnation of ALL white people.
No racism here.
saintlike
Honestly…
Why is there such a separation?
Why can’t we just be gays. Why do we have to be black gays and white gays.
I’m honest to god tired of the huge racial borders.
You’d honestly think that when some group is trying to still your rights or even worse, stop you from ever getting said rights, the group would unite to fight it. But it seems we’re no better than the bigots we are fighting.
Those who are constantly putting up race as a method to spread hate, you should be ashamed of yourself.
What’s with people separating black gay and white gays? That’s stupid.
And BTW, Afrolito, STFU.
Not only as a gay man, but as an African-American and part Native American man, shut up and leave. You’re one addition to the gay community we could do without.
Rob
@4getit: Oh, brother. Race is not something to be “transcended”, racism is. I don’t wake up everyday having to “transcend” some inherent racial inferiority in terms of intelligence or proclivity to violence, but I do have to “transcend” other peoples’ ideas of what my race is supposed to signify or mean about me. And tell me how is it, exactly, that you “transcend” race? Do you surround yourself with all-white friends? Do you pretend not to feel awkward when they say things like “Gee, XXX, I never really thought of you as black”? Are you someone who explicitly dates white men only? A person, even a person of color who makes such a statement about “transcending” race obviously doesn’t know the first thing about race or racism, but then again that should make you right at home here.
TANK
I’m post race.
Rob
BTW, to respond to the subject, Black gays don’t place a premium on gay marriage. Sorry, we just don’t. For myself and a lot of people like me, it is far more important to focus on things like HIV rates and homeless gay youth (which are more likely to be black or latino). The fight for marriage, while it does ultimately benefit us all, is the fight of a privileged few, and they’re damn sure gonna get what they want without any of my help or cash, so I would rather lend my time and energy to other causes. Based upon my conversations, a lot of other Black gays feel the same.
schlukitz
@Rob:
Black gays don’t place a premium on gay marriage. Sorry, we just don’t.
That is a position that I have long suspected and one which we whites are just going to have to learn to live with.
And that is why they make vanila, chocolate and strawberry ice cream.
We support and fight for the cause that is nearest and dearest to our hearts.
It’s not right. It’s not wrong. It’s just the way it is. Better to focus our energies, time and money on a issue we are passionate about and winable, rather than spreading ourselves thin and using a shotgun approach that wins no battles. I commend you on your battle with the other very worthwhile issues you enumerated in your post.
The only time I become concerned about this lack of support for SSM, however, is when blacks vote away the rights of LGBT people as a fair number of blacks did with Yes on Prop. 8 in California.
But, that is the topic of yet a whole ‘nuther conversation.
SM
The National Organization has singled Obama out on their web site and started plugging their DOMA Defense Fund. They are know whats ahead.
Soooo…. you all might want to start having Obama’s back more. Otherwise, you all will look like idiots for not preparing for the biggest fight of your life with an amazing President.
I bet NOW laughs everything you all get mad at Obama.
MitchNYC
Personally I don’t think that black gays give Obama more of a pass. I agree with an earlier post that there is probably more patience as there are ‘bigger fish to fry.’ To me, health care reform is far more important than my right to marry because I’m single and spending a fortune on health care. Someone in a relationship may have different priorities and I appreciate that. But I’m not going to roast Obama over the coals for prioritizing a problem that impacts a broader swath of the American public. Seems like smart politics to me.
That said, as a black gay man, much of the criticism I read here and in other blogs tends to have a racist/bigoted angle to it and that fucking pisses me off off. It’s one thing to be critical of his policies or a perceived lack of action. It’s something quite different to blame those two on his race, which is the angle that far too many comments seem to take. I’m sorry but when you ‘blame’ his race for his perceived poor performance, I’m going to get defensive because you are attacking me.
me
i say wait until the second term. he’s still in campaign mode and like it or not we’re a political liability.
M Shane
@99Rob: Nothing like telling the truth, ugly as it is. As a generality liberal and conservative Whites want to claim that they are ‘progressive on matters of “social policy” when in reality since they fail persistently to realize that the reason for racism is the great economic divisions, they are lying.. Whites are priviledged and even all these years since slaves have been freed, they have made sure that blacks remain trapped in an underpriviledged and defeated economic class; largely very poor and undereducated.
The gay agendas-the most prominent and frothy mouthed being marriage is of no interest except primarily to the economically priviledged. God, I just look at Solmenese, to feel ashamed of being associated with someone who looks like a shifty car salesman. If gay people were seriously concerned about wecoming thier “black brothers into the gay community; they would be inclusive in building it.
Marriage separates the GAY community as even moreso does the assinine attempt to be assimilated into respectable white jobs and suburbane communities.
Twenty years ago gay people had made far more of an advance into gay liberation and an awareness of the things that distinguish us and separate us(make us authentic)
than they have any idea of now.
I heard a respectable gay man speak negatively about a young fellow who was fliting around on gay pride, telling his straight friends that:”That’s a FAGGOT”(not people like me).
I doubt that he would be seen with a person from a different culture. He couldn’t identify himself.
I think that it is no wonder that minorities of gays stay away from the homophobic(i.e.assimilationist) leadership.
They are just plain gay and need to associate on that level; not additionally becoming like straight white breeders.
Ousslander
@M Shane: it gets tiring hearing how wanting be in a long term relationship or marriage is just aping straights. No for the most part that is simply human desire. Legal marriage would also offer economic benefits.
But some how that is self hating? I think to deny yourself such is true self hatred.
As for only the economically priveleged caring bout marriage is red herring thrown out by some delusioned wanna be socialists.
TANK
Yeah, seriously M shane, it’s getting tiresome to hear about how you failed at life and are trying to justify it. Go be fat and bitter somewhere else.
M Shane
No. 105 · Ousslander methinks you’ve been watching too many movies. Are polygamous relationships too. Human beings are wonderfully creative beings if they wish to be.
Prior to the propagandizing of Andrew Sullivan and Bruce Bawer: the far right wing of gay politics urban gay men discovered the possability of having a multiplicity of different assortments of forming their own individual families, meeting many needs with many people. A host of Intelligent people have written about this; if you have ever heard of Gay Studies e.g” The Touble With Normal”.by Michael Warner (Ruthgers Univ.) is good and explanitory. I would chalenge you to read something inteligent on the topic, before you get sold a rotten bill of goods. There is a lot more.
As far as the class issue that two is respectable social hypothesis about racism, racial inclusion not socialism.
@Tank It became clear before that you had a corner on the fat: In your head. I’m in very good physical shape always have been. You might check out who is bitter too. Or did you get tagled up with all of those other metaphysical freakazoids?
TANK
@M Shane:
Shaddup, FATSO!
M Shane
Men are so unavoidably mad that not to be mad would make one a madman of another order of existence: you inspire such profound thoughts.Tankero
4getit
@Rob:
no, you can transcend race..I was born with a white mother and a black father and never have I allowed myself to have the ruinous mental treatment of racial quandary…..just like you can walk into a room full of people with different sets of eye colors AND NOT CARE…..I TRANSCEND RACE AND THEREFORE RASCISM….Maybe it is just me, maybe not….but don’t talk down to truth.
4getit
@TANK:
I like post race…maybe I should have said that.
TANK
@4getit:
It’s not an ethical position. LOL! Sure, it would be great if we lived in a world where INDIVIDUALS were judged on the content of their character as opposed to their skin color, but we ain’t anywheres near that.
TANK
@TANK:
And those who say, justifiably, that we’re nearer than we were doesn’t mean we’re close.
TANK
But we’re a species that has evolved generalizing. That is a psychological trait we’ve evolved to aid in our survival and fitness. SOmetimes it works: the natural sciences–but often it doesn’t: bigotry. Sometimes generalizations (stereotypes) are accurates: jews do make, on average, more than their non-jew counterparts…but that’s not speaking to anything inherent about jews, but the history of bigotry that compelled them to business (e.g., jews couldn’t own property).
me
that picture of him you put in the corner is way too cute to be mad at
LaShawn
Well, he (Obama) just acted “stupidly” didn’t he in answering the last question at the recent prime-time news conference.
Good job Odumbass! With one careless answer he has single-handedly reignited the racial tension that seemed to be calming down.
With the racial divide in this country Obama just ensured that not only will he be a one-term president, it will be a long time before another black man is in the white house. Once again, good gob.
schlukitz
@LaShawn:
More on Cambridgegate.
http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=22&art_id=nw20090723052117654C899740
Obama is toast. It will take more than just the black vote to get him elected this time around.
Hate to say it, but bye-bye Obama. Hello Madame President Pallin.
Hey, don’t laugh.
She’s coming to a theatre near you very soon.
MitchNYC
@Schlukitz
Ummm…. blacks only make up 13% of the US population. I took far more than the black vote to get Obama elected and some how I don’t think “Cambridgegate” is going to torpedo his chances next time.
Obama didn’t say anything that wasn’t true. It was stupid. The charges were dropped. Disorderly conduct is a charge that is only valid for disturbances in PUBLIC. Gates was in his own home. Everything should have been dropped once the police realized it was his home. Being a loud mouth isn’t against the law. If so, there would be far more people in jail.
Get The Facts!
@MitchNYC: Please fully read the police report BEFORE commenting. This situation did turn into a PUBLIC disturbance. It was only after Gates was on the porch being belligerent to Crowley in front of SEVERAL bystanders/onlookers that he was placed under arrest for disorderly conduct.
MitchNYC
I read the report. The only way the cop could have charged him with anything was for him to step outside, which is what happened. The charge was still dropped. If it was a lawful charge, it would have stuck.
Both parties acted stupidly.
schlukitz
@MitchNYC:
I read the report.
No you didn’t!
The parties who acted stupidly, were Professor Gates and Mr. Obama.
The Cambridge police officer who arrested Mr. Gates was doing the job for which he is being paid, which is protecting private citizens property, something that Mr. Gates should have thanked Officer Crowley for instead of playing the race card and provoking his own arrest on a “creating a public disturbance” charge.
Police officers are not paid to take either verbal or physical abuse from anyone. Period. You fuck with a police officer…you get arrested.
And while we are on the topic, Mr. Obama does not have an exactly lilly-white reputation or vey much moral high-road to stand on either.
http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/obama_parking_tickets/2009/07/23/239549.html?s=al&promo_code=840D-1
In my state, my white driver’s license would have been revoked and I would be serving time in the country jail for having racked-up 15 unpaid parking tickets in over a decade.
Now, tell me that color and high-position does not come with special privileges in America while we lowly gays cannot even get civil-rights and equality from the very person we helped to elect with our time, money and effort?
J. Clarence
His skin color does not give him a pass with Black gays. They still hold his feet to the fire; however, in conjunction with that they also focus on others things that relate to his ethnicity that offers a different perspective. And it’s not just Black gays, progressive allies that criticize the President also find reason to say “good job” when he does a decent job.
I don’t think it is a matter of race, but rather choosing to look at the totality of what he is doing as president and not focuses on one, however important, issue.
schlukitz
@J. Clarence:
And it’s not just Black gays, progressive allies that criticize the President also find reason to say “good job” when he does a decent job.
We of the LGBT community would like nothing better than to be able to thank the President for doing a decent job…in any area.
Can you provide us with a list of his accomplishments for which we should be thankful?
Giving away trillions of taxpayers dollars that our grandchildren’s gandchildren will have to pay for and forgiving the gutting and sacking of our retirement investment portfolios doesn’t count.
schlukitz
@schlukitz:
Nor, does witholding civil-rights and equality from millions of taxpaying, American citizens, or the enforced separation of some 36,000 bi-national couples give us reason to be clapping our hands and raising our drinks on high in honor of “The Great One” in the Ofal Office.
MitchNYC
@schlukitz:
Were you looking over my shoulder? How do you know what I did or did not do.
I read the police report. It painted Gates as belligerent, frustrated and angry. If I were trying to justify my actions, I would paint the perp in the worst possible light. The police report is one side of the story. I find it interesting that Gates’ side is completely irrelevant in many of these discussions. Why is that?
Once Crowley realized that Gates was in his own home, the officer – who is trained to diffuse situations – should have said ‘Our business here is done. Thank you for your time.’ Instead the officer said, if you want to talk to me you have to come outside.’ Why was that necessary? Unfortunately for Gates, he took the bait.
Gates was being an ass. But I know what it’s like to come home from a long trip and be greeted by nothing but frustration. Perhaps Gates was exposed to bigotry on his trip, making him more sensitive. I know when people pull racist shit on me – an every day occurrence – it puts me in a sour mood.
Boston has a reputation for being a pretty racist town and Mass police do have a reputation of racial profiling so it’s not beyond the pale to think that this could have been a similar situation.
For the record Schlukitz, I have been in two relationships that had to end because of immigration issues. You act as if Obama is responsible for DOMA. He’s not. The Administration has to defend it until Congress gets their heads out of their asses, grow a pair and repeal it.
me
so this is the queerty obama discussion forum, hey? i’m pretty sure crowley had to have done something to set off gates. it looks like the officer jumped to certain conclusions he should not have and it showed in the way he was dealing with gates. gates picked up on it and it threw him into a blind rage. what happened after that is not really important, although i suppose the officer was technically right in arresting gates for causing a public disturbance, even though it was most likely the result of the officer’s actions. what exactly he did would be hard to say, much less prove in court.
MitchNYC
I do want to say one thing.
I personally don’t see Obama as ‘The Great One.’ He’s just a man who has attained one aspect of the American dream. Work hard. Play your cards right. Treat people with respect. Get an education. With that you can go far. Neither he nor his wife come from money or a privileged background. They worked hard, buoyed by a little luck.
I’m sure Obama has dealt with what I deal with on a day to day basis. People following me around the store for fear of my criminality. Women clutching their purses, putting their heads down and quickening their steps when they see me. Seats next to me on public transportation that strangely go empty until I get up to leave. Even in gay clubs, people protect their wallets and go the other side of the room. Guilty until proven innocent.
And I consider my experience benign because I dress as well as I can, speak without an accent, have an education and earn good money. I can’t imagine what it must be like to be from ‘the projects’ and be at the whim of crooked cops who know that most people don’t give a damn about the people who live there. It wasn’t that long ago in the South (and maybe the North) that cops hung out by check cashing places to shake down black men when they cashed their paychecks.
Considering all that I go through and I know others go through, it’s amazing that Obama was elected president. I certainly didn’t think it would happen since my day-to-day illustrates that bigotry is alive and well.
This episode has struck a nerve with me and others because of the indignities large and small that people of color face in this country. Think about that before you jump to conclusions one way or another.
Everyone needs to examine their hearts. Not just Obama and Gates.
Ryan
@MitchNYC:
Mitch wrote: “The charge was still dropped. If it was a lawful charge, it would have stuck.”
Mitch, don’t be so naive. The charges were dropped to try and take some heat off of this and to diffuse the situation. The Sgt. had every right to charge Gates. The Sergent’s entire department, including all of his superiors are fully backing him, this would not be the case if he did something that was inappropriate.
MitchNYC
@Ryan:
Don’t be naive. Cops stick together, even in the face of misconduct. How many Hollywood movies derived from true stories have made that point over and over again?
May I be clear? Both men behaved like total babies.
schlukitz
@MitchNYC:
I am exceedingly sorry to learn that you have experienced Immigration issues in two relationships. Being involved in a six-and-one-half year bi-national relationship myself, I can certainly relate to the heartbreak you must have experienced. I can assure you that my sympathies are totally with you on that issue.
And, as a gay man, I can certainly relate to much, if not all of the the treatment you have received as a black man. It is deplorable and inexcusable. And if I, as a gay, white male, can relate to the pain and suffering that this has caused you and your brothers and sisters, it then becomes all the more difficult for me to understand why so many black people cannot relate to the deplorable and inexcusable treatment that gay people also tolerate and endure on a daily basis.
All things considered, I agree with you. It is absolutely amazing that Obama was elected President of these United States. To be perfectly honest, I never would have expected to see that in my lifetime.
Blacks often say that gays are privileged in that they can conceal their gayness, something that blacks cannot do. And this supposedly allows them to have better jobs, better salaries, better education, better homes, better everything. Yet, putting things in proper perspective, the election of a gay man to the office of President, is not even on the table of possibility, much less in the crystal ball of expectation.
I can certainly appreciate the fact that this has struck a nerve with you.
Yes, blacks do suffer racial discrimination. Of that there is no doubt. Yet I would beg you to also think before you jump to conclusions one way or the other, for gays also suffer sexist discrimination and are denied many of the benefits and protections that are afforded to the black community. While it no longer legal to treat black people like second-class citizens, it is still legal to treat LGBT people as second-class citizens in America.
And while it would be unthinkable for me to call you the “N” word, we hear the equally denigrating word “fagot” being tossed at us constantly with impunity. Fred Plelps is allowed to maintain an Internet Site named “God Hates Fags”. Could you even imagine someone having the audacity to maintain a site on the Internet bearing the name “God hates Niggers” and protesting at the grave sites of your loved ones as they do with us?
Blood would be running in the streets.
And for the record, I wish to clarify my position with respect to Mr. Obama. I do NOT hold him responsible for DOMA and I do not recall ever having said that I do. That was Clinton’s doing and I will not get into a brou-ha-ha with you over that. What I do hold Mr. Obama responsible for, is his back-peddling on his campaign promise to repeal DOMA and DADT. The fate of ENDA still remains questionable at best.
As I am certain you must be aware of by now, DOMA has been removed from the President’s website and adding insult to injury, he recently stood before the DoJ and upheld DOMA, while likening our LGBT relationships to incest and pedophilia which was unforgivable.
DADT, which absolutely no one is standing in the way of and which the majority of Americans now feel should be repealed, has been moved to the back of the bus with Rosa Parks.
I am not pissed with Mr. Obama because he is black. I am pissed with him because he is spineless and has a yellow-streak running down his back.
CambridgeGate aside, I believe that the only person here who needs to examine his heart, is Mr. Obama himself.
I didn’t make the racial slur. Mr. Obama did…and I will not give him a free pass. Nor, do I feel any need to examine my heart.
I’m not the one pissing on anyone’s rights or sensibilities.
Lloyd B.
I’m actually trying to learn some information how to petition my long-time lover to come to the U.S.
Can anyone please help me with resources? I live in the state of CA and I am also an American Citizen. My lover and I had been sweethearts since college and I would love to bring him over here so we could be together.
Sorry I know its off-topic, but hope someone can help.
MitchNYC
@schlukitz:
[long response]
I don’t believe that Obama made the slur racial. It was racial before Obama commented on the situation. Obama had three points in that original response – he didn’t have all the facts and Gates is someone that he knows, the police could have handled the whole thing differently, and that minorities are sensitive to this issue because of the historical legacy of the police force. I’m sure he’s experienced some racial annoyances in his lifetime and perhaps could appreciate the frustration that Gates felt more than others in his audience and many in the country. Any person of color would.
I also disagree with you about Obama being spineless. He may not agree on marriage, which I will ding him on, but he has defended the LGBT community in places and in front of audiences that are typically hostile to our issues – including the black church. He’s addressed topics with a candor that has surprised me and many others. People say it’s ‘just words’ but those words are far more powerful coming from the President of the United States. One of the most important roles of the President is the bully pulpit. What the President says is reported throughout the world. Using that bully pulpit shows leadership. I hope you are not discounting that.
I also appreciate that standing up for any minority community is a difficult job for any politician. Blacks have theoretically been accepted as full citizens for many many years yet look at how polarized this conversation is. For some people, homosexuality, like ethnicity, is a Third Rail of politics, whether we like it or not.
Obama is but one man in a system that he had no role in making. He has to be extra careful in what he does because there are critics on both sides of the aisle willing to label him as a law-breaking Mugabe just because of his mixed ethnicity.
If you think black homophobia is difficult, try being black. Before you jump all over us, you should realize that we experience that homophobia in our community way more than you do because it’s in our faces. My family on one side is Jamaican and it’s difficult to think that my life is in danger should I wish to go visit my Mom’s homeland. I imagine someone who is Russian feels the same way as Russia is a dangerous place for a gay man and woman. Being out and black is just as difficult for us as it is for the broader population.
Being out is made all the more difficult by the perception that our non-colored brothers and sisters are willing to throw us under the bus when it’s expedient. Even the title of this article shows that when push comes to shove, the broader LGBT community may not have our backs and thinks of us as ‘other’. That was made painfully apparent in the venom directed towards black LGBT when news of Prop 8 came down. As if the black LGBT community is immune.
The reasons for black homophobia is no different than for white homophobia – religion. There is probably more attachment to religion because of its role in the civil rights struggle. I also feel that the cultural role of religion is different in the black community. Religion is the means to stay strong in the face of daily insults and injustices. There is a lot of pressure to stay to the struggle and being gay is a threat to the ‘cohesion’ of the community, especially from black women who have a difficult time finding guys who have their act together. Police brutality contributes to the difficult they have finding husbands. Like it or not, the society treats black lives as disposible. This opinion piece is just a window into that thinking:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/25/opinion/25blow.html?ref=opinion
I don’t think that the broader black community had heard enough of the stories that prove that the two struggles are more similar than they are different. In many hetero blacks, they think of firehoses, separate water fountains and police brutality and they do not see the same things happening to homosexuals. What they don’t see is the beatings, the taunting, and the glass ceiling. I have friends of all colors who have been kicked out of their families. Those stories don’t get told by mainstream media. We all have a responsibility to tell them. Obama has been doing his part and I appreciate that, even though it seems others do not or discount that.
At the end of the day, I’m objecting to lumping ‘Blacks’ into one monolithic group. I know that ‘Whites’ is an umbrella term for a broad array of cultural traditions. Italians differ from English, who are quite different from Russians. Why do people assume the black community think and acts alike? Skin color is merely a physical attribute in the human condition. Those of us from the Caribbean have an entirely different cultural tradition than Black Americans yet skin color is all people see. Someone from the Southeast is likely to have less exposure to homosexuals than someone from New York. It makes a difference.
That’s the crux of the issue. Gates was treated like a common criminal even though nothing could be further from the truth. For someone who has accomplished a lot in his life, achieved notoriety and has been a contributor not a leech, to be treated in so callous a fashion must have really angered him.
The white community can’t have it both ways. You can’t complain that blacks are criminals yet treat the ones who aren’t as criminals too. You can’t paint all blacks as homophobic while ignoring the second largest black community in California voted against Prop 8 and that largely black DC voted to recognize gay marriage in their confines.
Believe it or not, I’m more conservative than liberal – Colin Powell is a distant relative – but I cannot stomach the Republican party using me – the gay man and the black man – as a foil to drum up votes and racial hatred. I don’t like debt but understand that someone had to spend money when demand collapsed as it did and the government is often the spender of last resort. That collapse is Bush’s fault, not Obama’s.
For the record, I object to the tone in many of your posts. Your last note to me was the first time you became a real person and not just a shouter of offensive and inflammatory epithets. You may not feel the way you do because Obama is black but your language often skates the line between political disagreement and bigotry. The President leads the Executive branch but the Judicial branch and the Legislative branch are independent entities. I think Pelosi and Reid are being as ‘spineless’ as you feel Obama is but I don’t see the same venom spat at them. Rightly or wrongly, that makes me suspicious.
Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion and I have no doubts that you will continue hurling invectives towards others with whom you disagree. But I’ve always maintained that one catches more flies with honey than with vinegar.
MitchNYC
@Lloyd B.:
I think it depends on your lover’s country of origin. Where is he?
From what I understand, he needs to qualify on his own accord and your status won’t influence his application. However you can tap resources in this country – helping him find a job etc – that he can’t just by virtue of you living here.
get a life
Good lord you two! Standard blog comments are usually kept to a paragraph or less, not an entire chapter from a book.
Just pick up the phone and have a conversation with each other.
BTW – You two have WAY too much time on your hands.
strumpetwindsock
@get a life:
And you, my dear, have a scroll key on your keyboard and a mouse you can use to bypass their arguments if you find them too dense.
Frankly I think a well-composed argument is a refreshing change from what often passes for debate in here – calling people traitor, cunt, dumbfuck, and accusing them of not being gay.
UGH
@strumpetwindsock: No one was talking to you so STFU! I have to agree with getalife.
strumpetwindsock
@UGH:
Well you certainly demolished my argument with that brilliant bit of reasoning.
strumpetwindsock
@UGH:
And since you bring it up as an argument Mr. UGH, was anyone talking to you?
Chitown Kev
@MitchNYC: @schlukitz:
This is one of the best exchanges that I’ve seen on Queerty on this subject.
schlukitz
@MitchNYC:
Well, thank you very kindly for the thorough trashing you just dumped on me. I was trying to extend the olive branch of peace and understanding, but judging from the superior, castigating tone you displayed throughout the body of your reply, character assassination seems to be more to your liking. Beat-up on whites a lot, do you?
Your last note to me was the first time you became a real person and not just a shouter of offensive and inflammatory epithets.
Umm…out of a total of 137 comments on this thread, I posted exactly 7 comments: Nos. 95, 100, 117, 121, 123, 124 and 130 to be specific. I just went back and re-read each of them and unless I have lost my ability to read, write and comprehend the English language, I believe that every comment I posted was civil and respectful, including all of my replies to you, Sir.
In fact, I never said a word to you until you saw fit to take me to task for my comments starting with with your post no. 118. Obviously, you were feeling a very strong need to get on someone’s case and I just happened to be “it”.
Please correct me if I am in error, but exactly where was it that you saw me hurling “offensive and inflammatory epithets”?
Also, please direct me to any post in which I “shouted” (used capital letters)
For the record, I object to the tone in many of your posts.
If stating my honest opinion or disagreeing with you causes to you “object” to my tone, may I politely suggest that perhaps you are being a tad overly-sensitive and looking for insult where none is intended?
your language often skates the line between political disagreement and bigotry.
Sir, I do not “skate the line” between anything. If you had, indeed, followed any of my previous posts, you would know that I shoot from the hip and let the chips fall where they may. Let no man say that I am an apologist, whatever the issue. I speak my mind and if you wish to disagree with me, that is your privilege.
And for the record, I object to your calling me a bigot. I will repeat once again, no where in any of my posts did I ever call you one, or hurl any other inappropriate invectives or epithets at you.
If, indeed, you truly believe that one catches more flies with honey than vinegar, then why do I get the disturbing sense that you are shoving a plate of vinegar in my face and spoiling for a fight?
schlukitz
@Chitown Kev:
And then I went and ruined it all by objecting to having been called a bigot. LOL
InNeedOfStableScreenName
@MitchNYC:
I’m about to heap a lot of praise on you Mitch so try not to get embarrased. Not only are you the cooler head here but you make perfect appeals through pathos, ethos, and logos. You hold a kind of perceptive mind thats usually missing on threads like these (or on the internet in general). Please please please don’t let people like some on this thread pull you down to their level. In a country thats becoming increasingly fundementalist (on all sides of the political aisle), thats becoming more dualistic, more bloodthirsty, more anti-intellectual, and more speedy and hateful towards thoughtfullness, a mind like yours is desperately needed in these kinds of conversations.
MitchNYC
@schlukitz:
I didn’t call you a bigot. I said some of your language skates the line, especially if one doesn’t know your intent or positions. In my mind there’s a difference but I can see how that could be interpreted in different way.
I hereby extend an olive branch. I would rather have a debate than dismissive platitudes. Saying someone’s position ‘sucks’ doesn’t leave much room for discussion. I also appreciate you sticking up for your positions and hope the same is afforded me.
The majority of my friends are white and I don’t beat up on anyone unless they are displaying an attitude I find offensive. That doesn’t happen often. But I do experience some form of bigotry every day so forgive me for appearing overly sensitive.
I have friends visiting so have a great weekend. That goes for everyone.
schlukitz
@MitchNYC:
I didn’t call you a bigot.
I am delighted that you clarified that point. Obviously, I misread your meaning and intent.
And thank you for extending an olive branch and stating that you appreciate my sticking up for my positions. I hasten to assure you that I also appreciate your sticking up for your positions.
Its nice to learn that many of your friends are white. It would indicate to me that you are a man who appreciates diversity. And like you, I also have many black friends as well as friends of other ethnic backgrounds whose company I very much enjoy.
As a gay man who also experiences some form of bigotry every day, I well understand where you are coming from and I hope you will also forgive me if I appeared overly sensitive in my response to you.
Thank you for your very amiable response. It was very welcomed and appreciated. I hope you have a great weekend with your visiting friends.
Shitonya
Coloreds like Gates who cry racism every time things don’t go their way is why people hate blacks.
MitchNYC
@schlukitz:
Could you talk about some of the bigotry you face?
I think one thing that I knock the black community on is the thought that life as a white person in this country is a walk in the park. There are no other struggles, no other frustrations, no other forms of discrimination. I have enough friends from other nationalities and ethnicities to know better.
My ex is a slim bald-headed German-American of average height with a determined step. People mistook him for a skinhead, when in actuality hair left his head a long time ago. People discriminate against one another for all sorts of reasons. Skin color just makes it easier. I have more than a few friends who are repulsed by red hair; which astounds me.
I think one good thing about the Gates episode is it has forced a conversation about all of the other forms of bigotry that exists in this great land. I hope it continues. The police aren’t simply jerks to blacks and hispanics. They can be jerks to everyone – short or tall, fair or swarthy, rich or poor.
MitchNYC
@InNeedOfStableScreenName:
I’m blushing. Well as close as I get.
I love the interwebs but too many debates devolve into ‘yo mama’ matches, with each party trying to top the other’s insults and character assassinations. It makes for tiresome reading.
I really appreciate you reaching out and saying something. Hopefully I’ll get the chance to explore your thoughts in this and other threads.
schlukitz
@MitchNYC:
I trust that you had a delightful weekend with your visiting friends. You asked…
Could you talk about some of the bigotry you face?
How much time do you have? LOL
Seriously, however, bigotry is something I have dealt with since I was a child, starting with my bigoted family who hated everyone who was different from them.
I am first-generation German. After listening to my mom going off on the Wops, the Spics, the Chinks (her epithets, not mine), and various other ethnic groups one evening, I asked my mother if there was any ethnic group that she did like.
I got my face slapped for being “Too fresh”.
The first bigotry presented toward me directly, was from my family who wanted to know why I couldn’t just find a nice girl and settle down just like everyone else, so I left home at 14 to lead my own life, the way I saw fit and follow what felt natural for me.
My mother, who as a health-food nut, as well as a religious fanatic, thought my “problem” and the “reason that you are that way”, was due to what she described as my “faulty diet”. She was obviously in total denial about her son’s homosexuality. My being gay was a form of rebelliousness, according to her reasoning.
Then there was the bigotry presented to me in the RC Church my mother insisted on dragging me to. No need to go into detail here, as I am sure you’ve read it all on these threads. She too, suggested that I avail myself of “reparative therapy”. I politely declined. I was not broken, so I saw no reason to fix myself, as Rosie the Plumber might have said.
I experienced bigotry in the workplace and lost a couple of jobs over it because my boss did not like the idea of my being out and “exposing everyone else in the office to my deviated life-style.”
I experienced it in New York City by being turned away for a number of apartments, simply because I was not married and then having that followed up with, “We don’t rent to your kind.”
I experienced it by being refused service in restaurants and bars because of my homosexuality.
I experienced getting fag-bashed twice in my life. Once, at the age of fifteen here in Florida and again in my early twenties in New York City. I still bear the scar on the back of my head from the latter beating. Three tough guys to beat-up on one fagot. That’s really macho!
I experienced bigotry when I tried to legally adopt my son, despite the fact that I had already been supporting him from the age of 8. Legal adoption, like same-sex marriage, was not an option for gay people back in the early 70s.
And, I continue to experience bigotry in my daily life as an older person by being denied the right to marry my foreign born partner of almost seven years.
I am denied the right to sponsor him for American Citizenship like straights can.
I am denied the right to claim him as a partial dependent or any of my expenses on my income tax returns that I have been forced into, maintaining an offshore home so that that we can spend at least part of our year together.
I am denied the right to file a combined income tax return with my partner, resulting in my having to pay higher income taxes than str8 married couples.
I am denied the some 1150 federal benefits that my taxes pay for, but go toward the payment of those benefits to straights only.
I am denied of my Medicare that I paid into all of my life when I am offshore with my partner.
I am denied the inheritance rights to my partner that straight couples enjoy.
I am denied the right to walk down the street holding my partner’s hand or show any public displays of affection for my same-sex partner, that is allowed to all opposite-sex partnerships.
I am denied the right to make any medical decisions about my partner if he is hospitalized.
My partner is denied the right to make any medical decisions about my partner if I am hospitalized.
The list goes on and on, but I am sure that you can see and appreciated the myriad ways in which bigotry is displayed toward me as an openly gay man. I don’t wish to become boring, since this is a topic that has been thoroughly discussed in detail by many before me.
Perhaps my experience of bigotry is not as dramatic as yours has been because I can ‘fade into the woodwork” if I choose to, which is not an option for Afro-Americans. You have to deal with it every single moment of your waking day, 24/7. I do understand the difference.
That is not to say, however, that my experiences of bigotry are any less important and are trivial compared to the black experience of bigotry.
They just take different forms.
schlukitz
Typo” The fifth line up from the bottom should read as follows:
“My partner is denied the right to make any medical decisions for me if I am hospitalized.”
MitchNYC
Thanks for the list. It is helpful for me.
It’s hard enough to find true love. When your own government erects obstacles that really should have nothing to do with anyone else, it is frustrating.
Legal equality may come sooner than later but societal equality will take a lot longer. I’m thankful that we have a LGBT friendly president in office. I don’t think all on your list will be resolved but if even half of them are handled, I consider that a win.
While the US is probably one of the most tolerant of nations, it’s still a hostile place for those who are different – be that skin color, hair color, or sexuality. It’s a shame but it’s part of the human condition.