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	<title>Comments on: Australia Sen. Penny Wong&#8217;s Absolutely Inexcusable Defense Of Lobbying Against Same-Sex Marriage</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.queerty.com/australia-sen-penny-wongs-absolutely-inexcusable-defense-of-lobbying-against-same-sex-marriage-20100729/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.queerty.com/australia-sen-penny-wongs-absolutely-inexcusable-defense-of-lobbying-against-same-sex-marriage-20100729/</link>
	<description>Free of an agenda. Except that gay one.</description>
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		<title>By: Allie</title>
		<link>http://www.queerty.com/australia-sen-penny-wongs-absolutely-inexcusable-defense-of-lobbying-against-same-sex-marriage-20100729/#comment-331134</link>
		<dc:creator>Allie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Aug 2010 05:32:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.queerty.com/?p=107439#comment-331134</guid>
		<description>Wong could very well be leader of her party and/or Prime Minister one day if she plays her cards right. Unfortunately, this does mean toeing the party line when it comes to policy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wong could very well be leader of her party and/or Prime Minister one day if she plays her cards right. Unfortunately, this does mean toeing the party line when it comes to policy.</p>
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		<title>By: Kate</title>
		<link>http://www.queerty.com/australia-sen-penny-wongs-absolutely-inexcusable-defense-of-lobbying-against-same-sex-marriage-20100729/#comment-329485</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 20:28:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.queerty.com/?p=107439#comment-329485</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-329274&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Kyle&lt;/a&gt;: 

Erm, by definition any sell-out &quot;gets paid for it&quot;. Hence the  word &quot;sell&quot;. Otherwise the  phrase would be a &quot;giving-it-away-for-free-out&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a class="atr_link" href="#comment-329274" rel="nofollow">Kyle</a>: </p>
<p>Erm, by definition any sell-out &#8220;gets paid for it&#8221;. Hence the  word &#8220;sell&#8221;. Otherwise the  phrase would be a &#8220;giving-it-away-for-free-out&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Suzygoo</title>
		<link>http://www.queerty.com/australia-sen-penny-wongs-absolutely-inexcusable-defense-of-lobbying-against-same-sex-marriage-20100729/#comment-329330</link>
		<dc:creator>Suzygoo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 14:08:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.queerty.com/?p=107439#comment-329330</guid>
		<description>Party discipline!!!  You gotta love it.  We love it when it suits our needs and hate it when it does not.   Much like your spouse eh!   In Australia, like Canada, like Britain, Party members have to toe the line with the party position.  When Canada had the debate over same-sex marriage, GLBT activists were furious over the possibility of same sex marriage going to a free vote (vote according to your conscious, not the party line).  They said NO to a free vote because too many liberals will vote against it and it will fail.  If Ms. Wong goes against the party, she will be kicked out of the cabinet, kicked out of the Labour party, may not have her nomination papers signed by the leader and have to run as an independent thus ensuring her failure to get reelected.  If she does what you want her to do, then she will be a footnote in a history book and the party line will be the same. Party Unity depends on Party Discipline!  Now that is too much serious business-take me back to  morning goods because in the Australian vernacular, I am a bit &quot;Randy!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Party discipline!!!  You gotta love it.  We love it when it suits our needs and hate it when it does not.   Much like your spouse eh!   In Australia, like Canada, like Britain, Party members have to toe the line with the party position.  When Canada had the debate over same-sex marriage, GLBT activists were furious over the possibility of same sex marriage going to a free vote (vote according to your conscious, not the party line).  They said NO to a free vote because too many liberals will vote against it and it will fail.  If Ms. Wong goes against the party, she will be kicked out of the cabinet, kicked out of the Labour party, may not have her nomination papers signed by the leader and have to run as an independent thus ensuring her failure to get reelected.  If she does what you want her to do, then she will be a footnote in a history book and the party line will be the same. Party Unity depends on Party Discipline!  Now that is too much serious business-take me back to  morning goods because in the Australian vernacular, I am a bit &#8220;Randy!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle</title>
		<link>http://www.queerty.com/australia-sen-penny-wongs-absolutely-inexcusable-defense-of-lobbying-against-same-sex-marriage-20100729/#comment-329274</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 10:57:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.queerty.com/?p=107439#comment-329274</guid>
		<description>An LGBT who stands toe to toe with someone who denies the rest of us our rights just so they can get a paycheck is dead in my eyes. You&#039;re worse than a sell out, Wong, you&#039;re a sell out that gets paid for it.

Her PR crew is working overtime on here trying to defend this no good bigot!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An LGBT who stands toe to toe with someone who denies the rest of us our rights just so they can get a paycheck is dead in my eyes. You&#8217;re worse than a sell out, Wong, you&#8217;re a sell out that gets paid for it.</p>
<p>Her PR crew is working overtime on here trying to defend this no good bigot!</p>
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		<title>By: Alan</title>
		<link>http://www.queerty.com/australia-sen-penny-wongs-absolutely-inexcusable-defense-of-lobbying-against-same-sex-marriage-20100729/#comment-329252</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 08:48:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.queerty.com/?p=107439#comment-329252</guid>
		<description>Wait a second: Wong&#039;s comments are hardly a ringing endorsement of her party&#039;s policies. Her comments are always along the line that the party has decided upon a definition of marriage - to which she can understand many people object. In Australia, where party discipline is such that you can not only lose your cabinet position, but also preselection for your parliamentary position if you express public disagreement with your party&#039;s policies, that&#039;s about as disagreeable as you can get without effectively getting fired from parliament.

I have no doubt that Wong is fighting for marriage equality behind closed doors in the Labor caucus, where she has the real possibility of changing minds and policies. But it&#039;s simply not realistic or helpful to expect that she&#039;ll publicly ruminate about her disagreements with her parliamentary colleagues (especially in the run up to a federal election!). If she were to do so, we&#039;d merely end up with one less friendly voice in Cabinet. And the chances of marriage equality in Australia would be lessened considerably.

So go ahead and complain about the Australian Labor Party&#039;s policies. There is, after all, much to complain about. But don&#039;t go after one of the people who are working hard in the party to get things changed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wait a second: Wong&#8217;s comments are hardly a ringing endorsement of her party&#8217;s policies. Her comments are always along the line that the party has decided upon a definition of marriage &#8211; to which she can understand many people object. In Australia, where party discipline is such that you can not only lose your cabinet position, but also preselection for your parliamentary position if you express public disagreement with your party&#8217;s policies, that&#8217;s about as disagreeable as you can get without effectively getting fired from parliament.</p>
<p>I have no doubt that Wong is fighting for marriage equality behind closed doors in the Labor caucus, where she has the real possibility of changing minds and policies. But it&#8217;s simply not realistic or helpful to expect that she&#8217;ll publicly ruminate about her disagreements with her parliamentary colleagues (especially in the run up to a federal election!). If she were to do so, we&#8217;d merely end up with one less friendly voice in Cabinet. And the chances of marriage equality in Australia would be lessened considerably.</p>
<p>So go ahead and complain about the Australian Labor Party&#8217;s policies. There is, after all, much to complain about. But don&#8217;t go after one of the people who are working hard in the party to get things changed.</p>
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		<title>By: sebastian</title>
		<link>http://www.queerty.com/australia-sen-penny-wongs-absolutely-inexcusable-defense-of-lobbying-against-same-sex-marriage-20100729/#comment-329235</link>
		<dc:creator>sebastian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 08:03:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.queerty.com/?p=107439#comment-329235</guid>
		<description>Penny Wong seems to be the type of woman who might have functioned well as a Nazi.  You know, like all those gay elites who worked for Hitler and helped to round up all those gays into the camps at Auschwitz.

As for Penny being a pioneer, cough cough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Penny Wong seems to be the type of woman who might have functioned well as a Nazi.  You know, like all those gay elites who worked for Hitler and helped to round up all those gays into the camps at Auschwitz.</p>
<p>As for Penny being a pioneer, cough cough.</p>
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		<title>By: Fitz</title>
		<link>http://www.queerty.com/australia-sen-penny-wongs-absolutely-inexcusable-defense-of-lobbying-against-same-sex-marriage-20100729/#comment-329077</link>
		<dc:creator>Fitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 21:49:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.queerty.com/?p=107439#comment-329077</guid>
		<description>I understand and respect that Australia has a different electoral system, and a different culture. Clearly Wong has bought into the idea of being the 3rd cousin at the table, rather than not being invited to table at all.  

Clearly the blame is on the Labor Party more than on Wong.  Perhaps GLBT people should consider NOT voting Labor.  I would (and plan to) vote for an honest enemy rather than a fake friend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand and respect that Australia has a different electoral system, and a different culture. Clearly Wong has bought into the idea of being the 3rd cousin at the table, rather than not being invited to table at all.  </p>
<p>Clearly the blame is on the Labor Party more than on Wong.  Perhaps GLBT people should consider NOT voting Labor.  I would (and plan to) vote for an honest enemy rather than a fake friend.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://www.queerty.com/australia-sen-penny-wongs-absolutely-inexcusable-defense-of-lobbying-against-same-sex-marriage-20100729/#comment-328994</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 18:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.queerty.com/?p=107439#comment-328994</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-328974&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;alex&lt;/a&gt;: Idealism is good, most of the time. They&#039;re partially right. We&#039;ve waited long enough for equality. We&#039;ve waited long enough to not be the social pariahs. The last minority it&#039;s still acceptable to discriminate against in law.

In a perfect world, this would be a horrible betrayal. 

This is far from a perfect world.

Queerty, Wong is doing the best she can in these difficult political circumstances to achieve our goals. She&#039;s also a much better politician than you. She knows what she&#039;s doing, and she has stated her goals of working within the party to change its position, rather than standing against it on numerous occasions.

I don&#039;t merely think she&#039;s the lesser of two evils. I genuinely think she is a good senator, a good cabinet minister, a savvy politician, and a template for queers about how to achieve your goals rather than just not going gentle into that good night.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a class="atr_link" href="#comment-328974" rel="nofollow">alex</a>: Idealism is good, most of the time. They&#8217;re partially right. We&#8217;ve waited long enough for equality. We&#8217;ve waited long enough to not be the social pariahs. The last minority it&#8217;s still acceptable to discriminate against in law.</p>
<p>In a perfect world, this would be a horrible betrayal. </p>
<p>This is far from a perfect world.</p>
<p>Queerty, Wong is doing the best she can in these difficult political circumstances to achieve our goals. She&#8217;s also a much better politician than you. She knows what she&#8217;s doing, and she has stated her goals of working within the party to change its position, rather than standing against it on numerous occasions.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t merely think she&#8217;s the lesser of two evils. I genuinely think she is a good senator, a good cabinet minister, a savvy politician, and a template for queers about how to achieve your goals rather than just not going gentle into that good night.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.queerty.com/australia-sen-penny-wongs-absolutely-inexcusable-defense-of-lobbying-against-same-sex-marriage-20100729/#comment-328975</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 17:59:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.queerty.com/?p=107439#comment-328975</guid>
		<description>Her position is despicable.

It would be a tragedy if her government were to lose - all this tortured rhetoric would be for not. What then?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Her position is despicable.</p>
<p>It would be a tragedy if her government were to lose &#8211; all this tortured rhetoric would be for not. What then?</p>
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		<title>By: alex</title>
		<link>http://www.queerty.com/australia-sen-penny-wongs-absolutely-inexcusable-defense-of-lobbying-against-same-sex-marriage-20100729/#comment-328974</link>
		<dc:creator>alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 17:58:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.queerty.com/?p=107439#comment-328974</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-328912&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;James&lt;/a&gt;: THANK YOU! I was getting pretty frustrated because I see her point and I see where she&#039;s coming from but she&#039;s constantly being made to look like a traitor.

Queerty writers tend to be very idealistic. While it&#039;s refreshing to some degree, it&#039;s frustrating when the idealism creates such an inaccurate perception of someone on our side. The reality is that this is a war, and like James said, in a war you can&#039;t go out guns blazing. Losing a battle means nothing if you win the war, and to do that, you have to be smart about what moves you make and when. Right now, in her situation, it wouldn&#039;t be the smart move to have the boisterous american bravado everybody expects this Aussie to have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a class="atr_link" href="#comment-328912" rel="nofollow">James</a>: THANK YOU! I was getting pretty frustrated because I see her point and I see where she&#8217;s coming from but she&#8217;s constantly being made to look like a traitor.</p>
<p>Queerty writers tend to be very idealistic. While it&#8217;s refreshing to some degree, it&#8217;s frustrating when the idealism creates such an inaccurate perception of someone on our side. The reality is that this is a war, and like James said, in a war you can&#8217;t go out guns blazing. Losing a battle means nothing if you win the war, and to do that, you have to be smart about what moves you make and when. Right now, in her situation, it wouldn&#8217;t be the smart move to have the boisterous american bravado everybody expects this Aussie to have.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Brannon</title>
		<link>http://www.queerty.com/australia-sen-penny-wongs-absolutely-inexcusable-defense-of-lobbying-against-same-sex-marriage-20100729/#comment-328920</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Brannon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:51:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.queerty.com/?p=107439#comment-328920</guid>
		<description>7 mintutes is WAY to long for a video that does not involve a hot man being fucked.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>7 mintutes is WAY to long for a video that does not involve a hot man being fucked.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://www.queerty.com/australia-sen-penny-wongs-absolutely-inexcusable-defense-of-lobbying-against-same-sex-marriage-20100729/#comment-328912</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:36:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.queerty.com/?p=107439#comment-328912</guid>
		<description>You STILL don&#039;t get how Australian politics works at all, do you Queerty?

She cannot take a stand against her party on this issue three weeks before a federal election and keep her job. It&#039;s that simple. It&#039;s not a &quot;Stay on message&quot; thing, it&#039;s a &quot;You can be fired for this&quot; thing. Wong&#039;s cabinet position depends on factional support, not public support. Without it, she is another ineffectual backbench senator who can&#039;t get anything done.

By continuing to persue this, you are making martyrdom to our cause a requirement of being out. Martyrdom is always a choice, not an expectation. And not making this choice is the right decision in order to lose a battle so you can win the war.

I&#039;ll repeat this as many times as it needs to be said before you get it, Queerty: 

1. We do not have the same electoral system as America. American expectations do not apply here. 
2. It&#039;s not about &quot;Staying on message&quot;. Your analogies in your articles on this subject are seriously flawed. 
3. The Labor Party has a binding caucus which will cost her her career if she breaks it. She cannot stand against her party on this issue three weeks before a federal election and keep her job. 
4. You do not have the right to expect martyrdom of her.

Let it go. We should be protecting her right to prioritise her career over your wishes about how she should treat her sexuality. There is more to Wong than being a lesbian, and she doesn&#039;t campaign on being a lesbian. She&#039;s a senator, first and foremost. And she&#039;s a f*cking good one.

To say that being a member of an exclusive club means you have to sacrifice your morals and ethics is wrong. So is saying that being a member of an exclusive club, in this case the gay community, means you have to sacrifice your career and livelihood for the sake of everyone else.

Hell. By merely existing as the first openly gay cabinet member she has done more for gay rights in Australia than the majority of people who are trashing her. Let alone all the stuff she has done actively.

Do half of what she has done for me as a queer Australian, and be willing to sacrifice what you are demanding of her, then I will accept your criticism as valid. Otherwise all you are doing is being an ingrate, and in doing so, you&#039;re bringing down Australia&#039;s most high profile pioneer of gay rights, because she isn&#039;t able to give you 100% of what you want, in the three weeks before polling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You STILL don&#8217;t get how Australian politics works at all, do you Queerty?</p>
<p>She cannot take a stand against her party on this issue three weeks before a federal election and keep her job. It&#8217;s that simple. It&#8217;s not a &#8220;Stay on message&#8221; thing, it&#8217;s a &#8220;You can be fired for this&#8221; thing. Wong&#8217;s cabinet position depends on factional support, not public support. Without it, she is another ineffectual backbench senator who can&#8217;t get anything done.</p>
<p>By continuing to persue this, you are making martyrdom to our cause a requirement of being out. Martyrdom is always a choice, not an expectation. And not making this choice is the right decision in order to lose a battle so you can win the war.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll repeat this as many times as it needs to be said before you get it, Queerty: </p>
<p>1. We do not have the same electoral system as America. American expectations do not apply here.<br />
2. It&#8217;s not about &#8220;Staying on message&#8221;. Your analogies in your articles on this subject are seriously flawed.<br />
3. The Labor Party has a binding caucus which will cost her her career if she breaks it. She cannot stand against her party on this issue three weeks before a federal election and keep her job.<br />
4. You do not have the right to expect martyrdom of her.</p>
<p>Let it go. We should be protecting her right to prioritise her career over your wishes about how she should treat her sexuality. There is more to Wong than being a lesbian, and she doesn&#8217;t campaign on being a lesbian. She&#8217;s a senator, first and foremost. And she&#8217;s a f*cking good one.</p>
<p>To say that being a member of an exclusive club means you have to sacrifice your morals and ethics is wrong. So is saying that being a member of an exclusive club, in this case the gay community, means you have to sacrifice your career and livelihood for the sake of everyone else.</p>
<p>Hell. By merely existing as the first openly gay cabinet member she has done more for gay rights in Australia than the majority of people who are trashing her. Let alone all the stuff she has done actively.</p>
<p>Do half of what she has done for me as a queer Australian, and be willing to sacrifice what you are demanding of her, then I will accept your criticism as valid. Otherwise all you are doing is being an ingrate, and in doing so, you&#8217;re bringing down Australia&#8217;s most high profile pioneer of gay rights, because she isn&#8217;t able to give you 100% of what you want, in the three weeks before polling.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://www.queerty.com/australia-sen-penny-wongs-absolutely-inexcusable-defense-of-lobbying-against-same-sex-marriage-20100729/#comment-328909</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:24:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.queerty.com/?p=107439#comment-328909</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not really her fault.  

Heterosexuals have, quite apparently, been successful in programming Wong to believe that she is not worthy of equality.

If you think about it, it&#039;s rather sad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not really her fault.  </p>
<p>Heterosexuals have, quite apparently, been successful in programming Wong to believe that she is not worthy of equality.</p>
<p>If you think about it, it&#8217;s rather sad.</p>
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		<title>By: horus</title>
		<link>http://www.queerty.com/australia-sen-penny-wongs-absolutely-inexcusable-defense-of-lobbying-against-same-sex-marriage-20100729/#comment-328908</link>
		<dc:creator>horus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:23:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.queerty.com/?p=107439#comment-328908</guid>
		<description>freakin air head.
BTW-lets not have trash australia day again, this stupid misguided twang does not represent the country or it&#039;s people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>freakin air head.<br />
BTW-lets not have trash australia day again, this stupid misguided twang does not represent the country or it&#8217;s people.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Murray</title>
		<link>http://www.queerty.com/australia-sen-penny-wongs-absolutely-inexcusable-defense-of-lobbying-against-same-sex-marriage-20100729/#comment-328896</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Murray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 14:57:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.queerty.com/?p=107439#comment-328896</guid>
		<description>Wow - she&#039;s sickening. 
Since when has loyalty to a club or cabinet meant sacrificing all morality and independent thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow &#8211; she&#8217;s sickening.<br />
Since when has loyalty to a club or cabinet meant sacrificing all morality and independent thought.</p>
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		<title>By: PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS</title>
		<link>http://www.queerty.com/australia-sen-penny-wongs-absolutely-inexcusable-defense-of-lobbying-against-same-sex-marriage-20100729/#comment-328894</link>
		<dc:creator>PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 14:48:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.queerty.com/?p=107439#comment-328894</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Sorry Wong you are very Wrong.........&lt;em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Sorry Wong you are very Wrong&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;</em><em></em></p>
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