HRC’s recent ENDA poll has a lot of people scratching their heads. For example, who were the 500 people tallied for their astounding statistics – 70% of the participants supported a non-inclusive ENDA. Those results happened to support HRC’s flip-flop of a decision to actively support HR 3685, which they vowed not to support.
Considering all the inconsistencies, Bay Area Reporter asked HRC’s Brad Luna for an explanation. For the record, we also left a message for Luna, but were not granted a reply. Queer. From BAR:
We immediately asked who these [poll subjects] were – HRC members or subscribers of the Advocate? (The magazine was first out of the box to post the story about the survey, leaving some to wonder if the two were joined at the hip on this one.) Minutes later, we received a call from spokesman Brad Luna, who assured us that the 500 folks were “randomly” selected “from across the country” and were “not HRC members and not Advocate readers.”
He declined to name the polling company that conducted the survey, which he said was done by telephone.
Blogger Michael Petrelis highlights another part of the excerpt, “[Luna] declined to name the polling company that conducted the survey, which he said was done by telephone.” He also implores HRC give up the secret of their survey success.
Sir Winston Thriller
This is the same Michael Petrelis who used to throw used kitty litter at people he disagreed with?
Solid source….
praenomenal
Thriller,
I believe the source was actually the BAR…
Leland Frances
The B.A.R. is a rag. Its writers hacks. And, Petrelis, as noted, is a bloated tic.
The study paid for by HRC may be flawed, might even be entirely made up, but the B.A.R, Petrelis, ENDA DISunited, and, yes, Queerty, have no evidence I’ve seen that proves wrong my belief that the majority of gays and lesbians do NOT support their opportunity for job protection being stomped to death by ideologues.
If you do have same, please produce it.
In the meantime, as alleged wordsmiths, you might try injecting a little more integrity into your own actions beginning by stopping misrepresenting the language of the study, and the positions of those who supported voting for the version of ENDA that passed in the House yesterday which is very different than “supporting” a “non-inclusive ENDA.”
Thanks.
marc
Come on now, Michael Petrelis is a friend, I’ve known him for 20 yr, and he is a jewel of the LGBT communities. The people who threw kitty litter at Pat Christen, former ED of the SF AIDS Foundation, were from ACTUP/SF (version 2.0) the HIV deniers, not Michael. Petrelis and I both came from the real ACTUP, circa 88-91.
Cynthia Laird of the BAR, likewise, has different, more moderate political views than I but otherwise she’s a woman of integrity.
But I agree with Leland, that if the number is not 70%, its got to be as significant. But the HRC does itself no good by falsifying a poll or refusing to release the cross-tabs. But the HRC has been doing that for years and years, why should they change now?
Even Tammy Baldwin, who carried the trans amendment, ended up voting enthusiastically for ENDA. The writing was on the wall, the shrieking harpies in United ENDA misjudged the situation and used their substantial, formidable organizing talents to the wrong ends, and we are poised to see ENDA move through the Senate.
We have learned that it is not politically wise for a small group to alienate a larger group by insisting that all legislation for the larger group not move until the smaller group has made its case.
We have also learned that political promises, like promises from parents, can’t always be kept. Mom promised me a blue toy car, but when we got to the toy store, there were only red toy cars. Did she break her promise or were events beyond her control? HRC promised ENDA+T, but when they got to Congress, ENDA+T didn’t have the votes for reasons beyond HRC’s control.
Realist
I posted this earlier under Ted Kennedy’s pic and story and I’m posting it again here (since we’re still discussing ENDA).
I am well-educated on transgender issues. Additionally, I am not gender conforming. Thus, even though I’ve never had surgery nor do I take hormones, I am transgendered. And I wish people would pull their idealistic heads out of their asses. I get that the bill with transgender protections would protect people like me. And even with that knowledge, I say push ENDA forward without the gender identity section.
This “all or nothing†is just moronic. It’s completely unrealistic. Civil rights almost always are in baby steps. So let’s screw over the overwhelming majority of lesbians and gays so that a small but vocal minority can hold up civil rights progress? Nonsense. It’s about as smart as insisting on the word “marriage.†Good job queer organizations. Now instead of getting the benefits that truly matter (federal tax benefits, estate and trust benefits, social security benefits, health benefits for partners and their children, etc.), we will wait forever hoping that the courts or public will allow us to be married. Who wants to be like straight people? Who wants to strive to be married? An archaic, silly concept where women are treated like property. Call it the “homo hook-up†I don’t care, what I need are those very important benefits. But nope, we had to insist on that bullshit word “marriage†and now we have no benefits. Wow, great job!!
So get REAL and start understanding how to win the war. Leave tranny’s behind for now. Most of whom claim to be hetero anyway (at least that’s what it says on their websites).
Rt. Rev. Dr. RES
Hello again, Realist….ditto my response the first time that you posted it under Teddy’s pic LOL.
Yes, I would like to know how they decided on the core sampling for that poll ????? Was 70 points the margin of error and not a sincere reflection of the American LG community about B and T.
Rt. Rev. Dr. RES
Personally, I am surprised that the right wing attacked transgendered folks. Their Canadian rightwingnut cousins liked the bisexual. Yep, the guy who pitches and catches for both leagues. One minute, the person is a majority in the heterosexual community….and the next minute is enjoying or suffering minority rights….and it so helps those who feel that all gays, like bisexuals, can change their sexual orientation like changing shirts.
Yes, I would suggest that the alphabet soup will be again shortened by one more letter.
Bill Perdue
The Democrats successfully torpedoed ENDA by passing their hopelessly ineffective version. They needed a hook to get our votes because their history on DOMA and DADT and other gaybashing laws look bad. (And Barney Frank wanted made good on his threat to punish those who had the temerity to disagree with him..)
Their backstabbing will backfire as the word gets out about the fake ENDA. The Democrat bogus version encourages discrimination by christian totalitarians. The Democrat bogus version encourages discrimination against transsexuals. The Democrat bogus version accepts and reiterates the bigoted premised of their federal DOMA. And worst of all the Democrat bogus versions promise to deliver legal relief is DOA. Millions of GLBT folk face unremitting discrimination d by bigoted bosses who increase their profits enormously by underpaying us and don’t mind sharing with their toadies in Congress.
The bill is so watered down that today’s New York Times reports that “President Bush threatened to veto an earlier version of the bill, but a White House spokesman, Tony Fratto, said the administration would need to review recent changes before making a final decision.â€
The arrogance and stupidity of the Democrats is going to backfire on them. They’re patting themselves on the back thinking they’ve pulled the wool over our eyes. Their shills, brain curdled transphobic right-wingers all, are gloating and swaggering as if they’d actually won something. What senile fools. They’ve succeed only in isolating themselves. Only a tiny few are going to follow them as the march in lock step with the Republicans.
The real activists and real organizations, which are overwhelming opposed to their rightward dance with the Republicans are now left with no choice but to begin organizing independently of the Democrats and Republicans. The fakes have dug themselves a cozy little grave and now they can lie in it. Good Riddance!
As the NLGTF said: “We are relieved this episode is behind us, and starting right now we are going to pick up where we were six weeks ago — namely, working to pass into law in 2009 the ENDA our entire community wants and deserves.” I hope the NLGTF estimate is right but if the Democrats control the Congress and White House don’t bet on it.
Rt. Rev. Dr. RES
Why, Bill Perdue, is not the fact so obvious that the “Democratic and Republican parties” are merely both wings of one Corporate bird, and that the bird is giving everyone the finger….
hisurfer
I was angry at the non-inclusive ENDA, but … here we are. NOW I can say let’s take what we have and fight for it, even if it isn’t the legislation many of us wanted.
But with that – what a bullshit poll. Statistics mean nothing if we can’t analyze the methodology. And I’m very curious how do you select 500 gays at random. You would need a pre-developed list based on membership in *something*, which already introduces a bias.
Bill Perdue
You’re right, Rt. Rev. Dr. RES. the only saving grace arising from the awful mess created by the betrayal of ENDA by these grubby politicians and their hacks is that the shell game of the twin parties of bigotry is now clearer to a lot more people. But it does seem like a high price to pay for a wake up call.
How’s it going up there in the True North? Sigh. You have no idea how cold it’s getting here in Vegas. It was in the seventies today and it might dip all the way down into the 60’s tonight. Brrrrrrrrrrr.
I guess I’ll just have to wander over to my favorite casino and have their ‘all you can eat filet mignon and scampi for $10.95’ to console myself. Sigh.
Bill Perdue
Realist, Fredrick Douglass was thinging of people like you when he said: “Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress.”
We didn’t ask for everything, just the bare minimum; nothing is what they gave us.Lambda Legal says that teh “Weakened ENDA Means Less Protection for Everyone”:
“Definitions of who is protected by the bill leave gaping loopholes so that no one will be fully protected against discrimination. Congress should finish the work it began 44 years ago when it made employment discrimination based on sex illegal, and once and for all rid the workplace of sexual stereotypes.”
Go to the following for the full text in plain English.
http://www.lambdalegal.org/news/pr/weakened-enda-means-less-protections.html
Leland Frances
Marc, I salute you!!! What a refreshingly realistic and FAIR assessment, all the more challenging to provide in the middle of Pope Res and Comrade Perdue once again jerking each other off. I hope you didn’t get any on you!
Your analogy about mothers and children and red cars and blue cars was brilliant. Bravo!
Rt. Rev. Dr. RES
Alas, Marc, I am an Anglican and the Roman Catholic pope has spoken in terms clearly reserved for “ex cathedra fidei” fiats that all homosexuals are “objectively disordered” and have behaviours that are mortal sins who exclude us from the kingdom of Heaven and eternal salvation.
Christ, Marc, was inclusive of all rather than exclusive. He established the Christian Church into a faith-believing community. Nice word, commune, community, for it speaks to the way in which Christ established His Church. It speaks to the responsibility one has toward his brother…yes to love him – your neighbour – as yourself.
The Roman Church is in love with capitalism – even the unbridled kind that fascism promotes – in its misguided hatred of Marx and Engels and others who were unfortunately atheists. Socialism is yet another word for love of neighbour for it allows all to benefit from the commonweal. This belief opposes the belief in the individual and his needs at the expense of others.
I just finished viewing SICKO. Unbridled capitalism and health care. The real question is how real Christians can be fascist right wing capitalists? The short answer is that they cannot.
Rt. Rev. Dr. RES
Oh, Marc, I find more Christian principles in Bill Perdue’s commentaries. Stalin was a failed Roman Catholic Georgian who embraced fascism and totalitarian dictatorship and who betrayed a genuine effort to save the working man from oblivion in Czarist Russia.
Tinkerbell
Rt. Rev are you a retired Bishop? Or have you been Inhibited????