Today, the hopes of the world will be conferred on Barack Obama, 44th President of the United States of America. But what about the hopes of gays and lesbians?
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe wrote nearly 200 years ago: “The deepest, the only theme of human history, compared to which all others are of subordinate importance, is the conflict of skepticism with faith”. Two days ago, in an inaugural invocation that was never broadcast, openly-gay Bishop Gene Robinson sounded a similar theme by asking God to “bless us with patience and the knowledge that none of what ails us will be fixed anytime soon, and the understanding that our new president is a human being, not a messiah.”
For gay and lesbian Americans, the presidency of Barack Obama inspires both faith and skepticism. At long last, we have a president who includes the phrase “gays and lesbians” in his rhetoric about freedom and equality, and yet, despite promises that he will work for our equal rights, his choice of Rick Warren to officiate his inauguration fills us with deep skepticism. Is the new president serious about including the gay community or is he, as his predecessor might say, “All hat, no cattle”?
The moment not only inspires faith and skepticism in Obama, but in ourselves. Our emotions range from fury to consolation and, despite his promises to bring us all together, Obama is already a divisive figure. Some say that we must be quiet and give the new president a chance to do good before judging him. Others say that’s hogwash: when it comes to civil rights, you don’t sit quietly at the back of the bus in hopes that your turn will come.
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
Let’s put this simply: both views are correct. Barack Obama will not give gays and lesbians their civil rights anymore than Lyndon Baines Johnson gave blacks their civil rights when he signed Kennedy’s Civil Rights Act. Even if (and with faith, we hope), President Obama signs away Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell and the Defense of Marriage Act, it’ll be the final step in a struggle we started and fought for.
Like all Americans, our hopes and aspirations are bound up in this new president. He is “change” and “hope” incarnate, but that’s a testament to his image-making skills, nothing more. The expectation that he will fully redress the injustices done to gays and lesbians in this country isn’t just unrealistic, it’s naive. He’s a politician– a skillful, intelligent and open-minded one — but the only people who should pin all their hopes on him are the ones who enjoy seeing their dreams dashed.
Now that we’ve thrown cold water on the idea that Barack Obama is your new bicycle, here’s why the new president is the best thing to ever happen to the gay and lesbian community. It’s not the occasional tip of the hat to the LGBT community that matters, nor is it his various campaign promises to make America a more fair and equitable place for us, it’s his message. Ronald Reagan told us that government was the problem, Bill Clinton promised a government that “would feel your pain,” but Barack Obama’s government says, “Take over the government.”
He is the Community-Organizer-in-Chief and it’s clear from the YouTube videos that answer citizen’s questions and websites that enable Americans to give their time and energy back to their communities that the radical reshaping of the nation that Obama seeks is not based on policy, but process. His viewpoint is that it’s far more effective to give Americans the tools to transform their civic spaces, their economy and themselves, than it is for him to do it alone. It’s the political corollary to the Hippocratic Oath: “Nation, heal thyself!”
Barack Obama’s America exhorts its citizens to take the reins of government for themselves. Granted, in practice, this is easier said than done, but what does it mean specifically for gays and lesbians?
For one, it says we must not wait for Barack Obama. The gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender civil rights movement should not wait for any one, even the president. It will be far easier for the president to pass sweeping civil rights reform in an environment filled with politically active gays and lesbians fighting for their rights through protests, boycotts and political actions.
We must do the heavy lifting for our rights and, let’s face it: before Proposition 8 passed, many of us were complacent.
We were complacent not just in the struggle for equality, but in the care of our community. In trying to assimilate, too many of us have ignored the members of our community who stood at the periphery. HIV infections are on the rise among young gay men. Transgender women are murdered and we sit silently because their lives, made desperate by discrimination, do not reflect the positive sunny image we want the wider world to see. Minority communities, the very communities where discrimination is often most rampant, are supported by only a small, dedicated, handful of people.
Is it too much to ask of ourselves that we look out for each other? That we recognize the diverse differences that separate us along lines of color, wealth and political persuasion? Is it too much to ask that wealthy donors not only donate to the important causes of marriage equality, but also to the gay and lesbian centers that provide relief for homeless gay teens? Can we make a full-throated demand for equality when we find ourselves unable to donate an hour a week to serving meals to home bound HIV patients?
Many gays and lesbians do just the sort of things I just mentioned. One of the wonderful things about serving as your editor is that I get to meet and talk with the people who are fighting for our rights and are working to improve our lives; they need your help. Why give your time and money to gay and lesbian rights and services when there are so many other injustices in the world? Well, if not you, then who?
After Proposition 8 passed, on Facebook, a friend tagged my name to a photo that read, “I Am a Victim of H8.” I immediately de-tagged myself and re-tagged myself with, “I Am a Fighter of H8.”
You are not a victim.
Barack Obama will not make the world a better place for gays and lesbians, you will. It’s with both faith and skepticism that we welcome the new president. We expect great things from him, but more importantly, we expect great things from ourselves.
InExile
Finally an article that really has something to say! Where are the protests? Where is the outrage? When is the LBGT MARCH ON WASHINGTON DC FOR EQUALITY???????? No one is going to address our concerns, not the main stream media, not the politicians, and most certainly not President-elect Obama!!! We as a community must force them to act. None of our politicians want to address our issues, we as a community must force them to. The African American community did not sit back and wait for the HRC’s of the world to act, they protested in the streets demanding equal rights. There is one road to equality and it is not the easy road, it is the streets! When is the march on Washington?
Robert, NYC
Obama made it quite clear during the campaign, he is not for marriage equality. In no way could he ever be the gay messiah either. He supports our segregation via civil unions at the federal level, but he doesn’t even mention a plan to get the 28+ states that have DOMA and some even have a ban on civil unions in place. Where’s the equality in passing civil unions at the federal level?
PatrickD
He’s been clear for YRS about how he feels about us…as 2nd Class citizens. I Voted for him since it was a choice between him and a man who chose a “Pray the Gay Away” as his 2nd in command….nothing more.
I admit to being a bit cynical, after all I lived in DC under Barry and San Francisco under Brown. There’s what they say in front of the camera and what they do when the mike’s off…
In other words, skin colour doesn’t automatically make you more Evolved.
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
Poor guy.
Run, run while you can Bamz!
In the UK (lol) we have all the channels running this messiah like bullshit and they are like “he will solve the problems of worldwide racial equality” and the BBC have gone to Africa “Africans need Barack Obama, he can lead us out of this global mess” and then off to France ” We have hated the Americans but now they have shown to be dynamic by not electing another rich white man as President” and then off to Japan (I KNOW!!) “This is exciting times. Things will change with Obama being president” and I could go on and on…
I’d like to the international relations officer. The person that tells you Americans what the rest of the world is thinking since you have the strangest news outlets who either sensationalise things to a high percentage or just don’t show the rest of the world!
Poor Obama! And then the US gays….
In other news!
Mayor Sam from Portland may be resigning for having an illict affair with a 17 yol kid!
Ouch!
Get on this Japhy!
I want to read what the Queerty commenters are gonna say!
They’ve been let down by one of their own and thrown under the bus! He lied!
🙁
Herbert Wassinger
@inexile
you are right. the road to equality is not easy. it is in streets, at lunch counters, and in the face of all those around you. to make their own discrimination extremely uncomfortable for them.
so start today:
1. boycott the inauguration visuals. when friends/co-workers ask you why you are not watching, tell them that it is wrong to elevate and celebrate people like rick warren.
2. use your phone. when pols do things like the rick warren pick, call them up on it fast.
3. demonstrate. it does not need to be big. can be what i call a “micro rally.” when tom duane refused to issue a statement against a deal for n.y. state senate majority to avoid the issue of gay marriage, i did a micro rally (of just me) at his office in nyc. you would have thought the place was on fire, holy jesus!! you too can do it. just takes guts. (and, by the way, it’s fun).
4. use your imagination to come up with your own ideas. and please share them with us. sometimes, we gays do have some imagination. 🙂
Boris H
John
You seem to find great joy when something negative happens to US gays.
Such condescension in your posts. Hope you find equally great joy every time a gay politician is forced to resign becaiuse of having a consentual affair with a 18 year old.
You rejoice about this don’t you?
PatrickD
Some folks like to play the Raven. I’ve friends who gleefully recount each time a Christian is caught Molesting a child when, IMO they should feel sad that such a thing has happened.
Some folks just enjoy the suffering of others. Not enough to do it themselves but to gain pleasure 2nd hand at the actions of others.
Tangent
Personally, Proposition 8 made me sit up and realize that marriage itself is unconstitutional. The biggest argument used against gay marriage is that it is against the will of the Judea-Christian God. But the Constitution states that laws cannot be passed that support any one religion over another. Why then is marriage, an institution of the Christian religion, given free rein?
Any and all legal protections should be done through a Civil Union act, for everyone. Not just for gays or just for straights. For everyone who wants the civil and legal protections that come with being married. If people want to get married, they can go to their Church and get married. Let the churches fight it out among themselves. But if you want the tax deductions and family insurance and the like… you need a Civil Union.
Let’s see how other straight people like it when their own arguments are applied to them. (Mind you, I’m straight. I just dislike prejudice and discrimination. And I also understand the fears that are behind homophobia, having (through education and friendships with gays and bisexuals) overcome my own fears. If I can overcome my fears and prejudices, so can other people.)
Good luck. 🙂
PatrickD
Can we back up the truck back to REALITY? There is no way Het Marriage in ANY country is going to be eliminated. That’s as silly as some of the ideas in the 70’s about outlawing clothing that differentiates sexually. Don’t Eliminate anything other than Discrimination….
Nick11
I’ve been fighting and protesting for over 20 years. I’m tired, and yes, you are right Japhy, we need to take out destiny into our own hands and not “hope” that some politician or political party will help us, because at the end of the day all they really want is our money and our vote (which as I have been saying here for weeks now the lgbt community can no longer defacto give all our support to the Dems, they aren’t interested folks, wake up!)
You say:
“but the only people who should pin all their hopes on him are the ones who enjoy seeing their dreams dashed”.
Yes, I am definitely feeling dashed. I thought given all the rhetoric for the last two years that we finally had a man in the white house who actually got it and cared. I was obviously delusional and wrong.
Then you say:
“here’s why the new president is the best thing to ever happen to the gay and lesbian community”
Um, sorry Japhy, but we have been doing this since Stonewall and more recently when gay men started to drop dead like flies in the 80’s. You probably didn’t experience the ACT UP era, but we used to be a compassionate, active, political people. Then we got burnt out, went on disability and got stoned on Meth. What the hell the new drugs seem to work for most people. Why bother? Well if it takes a president elect lying to you and shitting in your face to get motivated to do what we have done since Stonewall then great, but to say he is the best thing to happen to ever happen to the gay community, is down right Obama-like in it’s unrealistic optimism. You could very well say that AIDS or oppression where the best things that ever happened to us as well. I mean do we always have to work so hard and get so little? Is there something wrong with thinking that for once in the history of this nation we might all stand as one nation, under God? And I mean an all loving God who doesn’t pick and choose his flock?
I think you have greatly improved Queerty Japhy and I really enjoy your writing, but in this instance I think you are off base. We are the change we want to see, that has always been evident, we just thought with this president we might get a leg up, but apparently that was just a giddy moment of insanity/hope before the reality quickly sunk in.
GJR
If I may add..Prop 8 passed in part because may gay and lesbian activists in California put electing Obama ahead of advancing their own rights. I personally know people who traveled to Nevada to help him secure that electoral victory, only to be slapped with the loss of Prop 8. Then twice slapped with Rick Warren. Then thrice slapped when Gene Robertson could not be included in the broadcast, only Elmo shares that distinction with him, evidently a gay bishop wouldn’t be good for DVD sales of their hot inaugural concert.
Number two:
I am so sick of this idea, “Judge him by his deeds, not the symbols..” Um, why do we have to choose. What other group – women, blacks, Hispanics must endure rude treatment in order to someday secure better rights? The treatment of Robinson was nothing less than appalling. I’ve been involved in TV broadcasts before – everything is timed to the second. They can’t accidentally have someone go five minutes before official start time and think it will work out. Basically, someone made the decision that the person giving the INVOCATION was not fit material for the broadcast and DVD. Someone felt that he alone did not deserve a working microphone so he could be heard. Every other speaker/performer was afforded this courtesy. So again, we have to endure this completely unnecessary rudeness and disrespect in the hopes of getting tangible rights in the future?
Do you understand how fucked up that sounds? Well, we’ll beat up the Mexican immigrants today, but someday, if they’re good, maybe they can get health coverage… You all know that shit doesn’t fly. Your “friends” don’t treat you with such rudeness and disrespect, they simply do not.
Number three: Yes, we have to build a movement in addition to the president. But this is also about Obama. I’m not going to automatically cast my vote any more. He has a checklist on change.gov of what he has promised the GLBT community. If he has not kept the majority of his promises by 2012, I will not vote for him, I’ll just vote for my senator and congressman. I am so freaking sick of the idea that we are lowest on the totem pole, so any shit can be perpetrated on us in the hopes that some magic day we will get rights.
My trust is Barack Obama is gone, at least when it comes to the GLBT community. It is now up to him to change my mind. With McClurkin, Warren and the diss of Robinson, he’s lost his chances with me.
PearlsBeforeSwine
Perhaps you’ve heard the saying “Expectations are planned resentments”.
Larry
I recently read Randy Shilts’ “The Mayor of Castro Street,” his biography about Harvey Milk, and it was eerie how much history has repeated itself. Then, as now, a lot of gay people thought that kissing ass to the Democrats would help advance gay rights, and a lot of the “established” gays in San Francisco resisted Milk because he was saying that the gay community had to take matters into its own hands, winning rights for itself while building coalitions with other marginalized groups.
The thing is, he was right, but 30 years later, we’re back to the same old ways that didn’t work then and won’t work now.
Even before I knew much about Milk, I would often chide other gay people for not being demanding enough. I would pen blunt columns for the campus newspaper advocating gay rights and frankly discussing and analyzing the bigotry behind gay-rights opposition, while they were doing things like the “Day of Silence.” The thing is, I actually got people’s attention and ruffled feathers; they didn’t.
I thought that the protests after Prop. 8 marked a new return to the sort of demanding activism we need, but now I see that we’re sinking back into the ineffective tactics that led to Prop. 8’s passage, notably the Christmas caroling party mentioned in this blog some time ago.
Now that I have a steady job, I’ve committed myself to making an alternating monthly donation to either the Ali Forney Center (a homeless shelter for gay teenagers) here in NYC or the Trevor Project. Gay teenagers are among the most vulnerable members of our community, but they’re almost among the most neglected.
Into the NIghtlife
Uh, there is nobody on Earth that is a messiah. Nobody can live up to that. That is what is pissing me off about all this media coverage and sensationalism.
I understand people being ecstatic to have Bush gone. But all this drama is ridiculous. For me it is not about race, race, race – despite how people love turning things into race.
It is about cleaning up this mess we are in. And I just wanted the best person to do that, regardless of their color. Frankly, I could not give a damn about “historial moments” and all that other stuff.
Now excuse me while I go into a media blackout for the next few days…
Markl
Messiah? No. But, come on – would we have seen an explicit statement regarding GLBT rights on whitehouse.gov under any other administration? At the very least, we finally have an ally and not a foe in the White House. Obama will not hand us the things we both want and deserve, but for once we have a president who will not work against them.
LGBT civil rights statement from whitehouse.gov
* Expand Hate Crimes Statutes
* Fight Workplace Discrimination
* Support Full Civil Unions and Federal Rights
* Oppose a Constitutional Ban on Same-Sex Marriage
* Repeal Don’t Ask-Don’t Tell
* Expand Adoption Rights (ensure adoption rights for LGBT)
* Promote AIDS Prevention
* Empower Women to Prevent HIV/AIDS
agora17
“Nation, heal thyself!” is very nearly the same sentiment expressed by former president Jimmy Carter that the “Malaise was in us.” The former is applauded the latter was demonized. Let’s hope Obama is politically astute as Clinton and as compassionate as Carter.
Mike
It always amazes me when people start yelling about marches and protests. Marches and protests make the people marching and protesting feel better, but don’t really accomplish anything. All that matters is running our own candidates, getting out the vote, and building coalitions. Marching and protesting are OLD ways of thinking.
jj
@InExile:
Yes!! Thanks!! We have to fight — the White House isn’t going to do it, and we might have it tougher since there’s less of us than everyone else, but we have morality, equality, and justice on our side, and we can never give up!
Landon Bryce
Queerty has gotten so great lately– this essay is on the money in every way.
I love the new first family. This is a day for celebration:
http://trousertube.com/node/614
petted
Great article it presents the dichotomy very well. Lets keep our fingers crossed and see what can be done to keep a friendly-ish majority in the senate cause that’ll be the sticking point more then likely to getting a lot of what we want done on pretty much all progressive legislation.
Mister C
Personally I’m sick of all of this rhetoric. Malcolm X said it so plain and clearly. He told African Americans
“We cannot be at peace with others until we are at peace with ourselves”
And we are NOT at PEACE with each other fellow LGBTQ people! Civil Rights did not come in a day and even after it was passed everything that wasn’t a WHITE MALE still face discrimination even ‘til’ this day it still happens to us who are Gay and not white males regardless of this new President.
I am totally in the fight for equality but there is no such thing as Gay Rights we just need to make sure that all provisions in the Civil Rights Act include LGBTQ! I am not defending President Obama but some of these statements and so forth is just ridiculous. Holding his feet to the fire to live up to what he said I’m all for. But in some past posts relating to all of this whereas some were saying
“Gay Is The New Black”
“LGBTQ’s are the new niggers”
Really??????
Then please show me a lunch counter, a bathroom, a hotel, a pool that says
WHITES only, GAYS here
Please tell me when you paid your fare to ride the bus and were told “faggot get to the back of the bus”
I don’t think we have any. But I can talk about being in a predominately white gay bar and being looked over and security keep coming towards the area I’m in just because I came alone.
Basically what I am saying is discrimination is WRONG however it’s displayed. And the big thing here with a lot of you is Gay Marriage and I feel the same. However some minorities feel like why should I be in this fight if I will not be included. HRC and other LGBTQ Civil Rights group have rarely ever fought for minority LGBTQ issues and believe it or not we do have some different issues to tackle then our white brethren.
We need to SERIOUSLY find a way to reach common ground with each other and BOND and really take our fight in a powerful way because there is strength in numbers. But with in fighting it’s just not going to work! Lets take action and FIGHT this RIGHT! But as we fight keep in mind it will not be overnight.
ceazer
@Mister C: GAY IS NOT THE NEW BLACK. BLACK IS NOT YET EVEN THE NEW BLACK. Translate?. Just because Obama is president does not mean that black inequality and discrimination has ended. Their situation is just as bad as ours. My black college roommate really laughed at the statement- gay is the new black.
Mister C
Ceazer I’m misunderstanding you. Are you agreeing with my post, or something different? I’m quoting sayings that are out there. I’m not saying that “Gay Is The New Black” in fact it isn’t.
Brian Miller
“Gay Is The New Black”
“LGBTQ’s are the new niggers”
Really??????
Then please show me a lunch counter, a bathroom, a hotel, a pool that says
WHITES only, GAYS here
How about most churches — who won’t marry, and often won’t even allow, openly gay members?
How about Hollywood, where being an openly gay actor is a one-way ticket to the D-list — and where straight actors who play gay are hailed as “brave?”
How about at resorts that are “heterosexual only?”
How about at your local justice of the peace, if you’re seeking a marriage certificate outside of Connecticut or Massachusetts?
How about at the local adoption office in DC and 14 other states?
How about at a US military recruitment center?
I could go on and on, but I think I’ve sorta killed, ground up, immolated and buried your “point.”
Carry on.
gaypastor
Martin Luther King once said that he preferred being in the South because at least in the South he knew who his enemies were! I don’t know what to think about the Obama administration at this point and its too soon to tell if he is a friend or foe to our community. For certain his track record is mixed (do your research folks!) and the Rev. Warren/Rev. Robinson matter was handled very poorly. Either way…Obama or no Obama…millions of our young commit suicide, millions of our money is lost because we don’t have “marriage rights,” loved ones are turned from the hospital beds of other loved ones, people are being killed in hate and millions more are living in hell-stained closets! We don’t need Obama to tell us what we need. What we need is new, young, brave, bold (and hell yeah…perhaps some Black) leadership in our organizations!!! Remember…every movement has its King and Malcolm moments. Looks to me like we need a little bit more Malcolm these days.
Nick11
@PearlsBeforeSwine:
I haven’t, so thank you! I love it!
Carl
Did you know Obama’s church, UCC, was the first to ordain gay ministers?
http://www.hrc.org/issues/religion/5055.htm
Bill Perdue
Obama is now the problem.
His constant refrain “god’s in the mix†was used to torpedo same sex marriage in California, Florida and Arizona by Warren, the mormons and the catholic hierarchy. Obama out-pandered and-Roved McCain and captured a big slice of the christian bigot vote and in the process ran us over with the Route 8 bus. Warren’s invitation means only one thing: Obama fully intends to keep his bigot voter base and expand it.
He’s typical of the Democrats. Biden voted for DOMA. DOMA and DADT, two of the worst laws to come down the pike were overwhelmingly approved by Congressional Democrats (sic) and rushed into law by Clinton. Kennedy and Pelosi ditched the Matthew Shepard hate crimes bill and how many of us died as a result? Frank gutted ENDA. And etc. ad nauseam.
Then there’s the Democratic National Committee. It’s run by a hard-boiled bigot named Leah Daughtry. She’s an ordained pentecostal minister (like Jimmy Swaggart) who opposes same sex marriage, abortion and probably doesn’t eat shellfish. She and the DNC are being sued by the DNCs own former GLBT outreach director for anti-GLBT hiring and firing practices.
Is it any wonder that Dobson has a smirk on his face these days? Bigots like him have a revolving door in DC. The old ones are leaving as the news ones take over.
Opposing Obama’s war, fighting against Obama’s gifts to the rich and his austerity program for working people combined with the many struggles against racism, misogyny and homophobia are the keys to organizing our own communities and making allies. The Democrat (sic) and Republican parties are the last closet. We won’t get equality staying in the closet.
Those who ‘have faith’ in Obama should learn the lessons of this classic footage showing the inteaction of liberals and the hustlers they rely on – http://youtube.com/watch?v=BXCUBVS4kfQ
The Lesbian Mafia
The “magic” of Barack is that he can divide people within their own communities. LGBT cannot come together to decide whether he is jesus christ or simply another liar. I propose he is the latter. A liar, a fake. He did not win this election. Third world style politics is the name of the game here. The Democratic is as crooked as the Republican party. They are both one in the same. They need each other to exist. It’s all a sham. Dems clearly don’t care about anything they have to say when it comes to women and gays. If Dems cared so much about gays we would have gay marriage in the most “democratic state” New York. Dems are full of crap.
Barack said it over and over and over and over again that he is against gay marriage yet if you asked any one of your Obama zombie friends they would say he was lying and only saying that to get elected. They need puppets like Rachel Maddow to tell them how to feel. Since Rachel doesn’t have a problem with Rick Warren, well neither does the gay community.
I can think for myself. I don’t care of Barack and ME-chelle dance on Ellen, and I don’t need Rachel Maddow to tell me how to feel. I can see Baracks body language around gay ppl. He is a fake and a liar.
If he lived in California he and his wife would have voted YES on 8, and so would Oprah.
afrolito
@Brian Miller:
You actually haven’t killed his point, but you have exposed the typical self absorbed mindset of gay white men.
Gay is not, nor will it EVER be the new black.
Just because Barack won the presidency, does not mean that people of african descent have OVERCOME all racism and predjudice. He’s one man, not the manifestation of a new world order, despite the liberal rhetoric. Black people will wake up tomorrow facing the same serious issues as we did yesterday.
Mister C
Thanks Afrolito
@ Brian #24
Okay Madam Philadelphia to answer your response. You haven’t buried shit!
You said
How about most churches — who won’t marry, and often won’t even allow, openly gay members?…
What about them you have Gay churches all over the country and your point is????
You said:
How about Hollywood, where being an openly gay actor is a one-way ticket to the D-list — and where straight actors who play gay are hailed as “brave?”…The folks that make those decisions are what……………..CAUCASIAN… and your point is????
You said:
How about at resorts that are “heterosexual only?”…
How about the Parliament House in Orlando a Gay Resort, The now closed Sun Coast was another Gay resort.. and The Habana Inn in Oklahoma City another Gay Resort……Oh yeah right in your damn backyard The Empress another Gay hotel…. and your point is????
You said:
How about at your local justice of the peace, if you’re seeking a marriage certificate outside of Connecticut or Massachusetts? You can still get married girl it’s just not recognized by the city. Just like most Gay Civil Rights group don’t recognize minorities unless the person is partnered to a CAUCASIAN…. and your point is????
You said:
How about at the local adoption office in DC and 14 other states?
There are many GAY CAUCASIANS who adopt Blacks kids whereas Blacks get turned down by some of these same agencies and many of them are faith based. So explain that logic to me. Well let me guess.
Blond Hair+Blue Eyes=$$$$$$$
Nappy Hair=whatever
So we’re not going to give the Blond hair kid to the Gay couple citing our religious beliefs so they do want to raise a child in society so ummmm give them the black kid……doesn’t mean much to us.
YEAH Brian nice try… and your point is????
You said:
How about at a US military recruitment center?
How about it? You can enlist haven’t you read here on Queerty about the queen who is serving and they all know she’s a queen and isn’t bothering her. http://www.queerty.com/an-openly-gay-american-soldier-if-only-for-6-months-20081230/
Yeah well girl you could go on and on but no need to. And you didn’t bury shit here.
Okay and once again…AND YOUR POINT IS???
Since you’re trying it. Have you ever been beat with a baton and dogs biting on you and getting hose down by police because who you are?????? I never heard of any situation.
Actually don’t go on and on………….JUST GET ON!
Like I said prior and will reiterate it again: We need to SERIOUSLY find a way to reach common ground with each other and BOND and really take our fight in a powerful way because there is strength in numbers. But with in fighting it’s just not going to work! Lets take action and FIGHT this RIGHT! But as we fight keep in mind it will not be overnight.
Brian Miller
@afrolito:
You actually haven’t killed his point, but you have exposed the typical self absorbed mindset of gay white men.
Gay is not, nor will it EVER be the new black.
Isn’t it funny how you assumed that I’m a gay white man?
As for gay being “the new black,” that’s your language, not mine. I’m just pointing out the bullshit about how “gays aren’t discriminated against” is, well, bullshit.
Frankly, if my grandmother had taken your view of the universe and applied it during the Civil Rights Era, instead of marching in the streets for enfranchisement of black Americans, she would have insisted that “black Americans are self-absorbed because they weren’t barbecued in Dachau like my family was.” She’d have insisted that black Americans should just ride at the back of the bus, and that she and her dead friends and family would have KILLED for a seat on a segregated bus in exchange for the Nazi death camps.
Thank God she recognized that people are people, and that government should NEVER have the ability to discriminate based on an innate characteristic. Thank God she did for you and me what YOU aren’t willing to do for others who are different from you.
Until you accept that ALL people have rights, and stop trying to play the oppression Olympics, you’re the self-absorbed one. The reality is that people trying to make your “point” wouldn’t win the gold, they wouldn’t win the bronze, they wouldn’t even qualify for the semi-finals.
Brian Miller
@Mister C:
Since you’re trying it. Have you ever been beat with a baton and dogs biting on you and getting hose down by police because who you are?
I haven’t (yet).
Have you?
I have been harrassed by police for holding my ex-BF’s hand in public.
My family, many of whom are still alive, were shipped to death camps in Germany based on who they are. I’m sure they’d much rather have preferred a fire hose or a beating to being starved to death, executed, cremated and having their gold and mercury fillings ripped from their skulls to fuel the Nazi war machine.
Well golly gee, any old fool can play this “you don’t know suffering” game, can’t they?
And it’s really retarded, when you get down to it.
gaytoo?
Sad. This whole argument is sad. The man hasn’t even been president for twenty-four hours and already he’s a “A liar, a fake”. How fickle the LGBT community is, or rather, the tired gay males that frequent these comment boards.
To the dissenters and nay-sayers, the discriminated masses, to those of you who feel like you’ve been bamboozled, I ask a question; if not Obama, than who? Who should we have elected instead? Where is this miraculous candidate who will right all wrongs within the first day of taking office? Point him out, I’d love to meet him. Give me one electable candidate who has half the promise of Obama. Actually, lets make it doable, give me a candidate who has a tenth of his potential and I’ll quietly place my hands in my pockets and swear to type no more. Barney Frank, cute…, really, I like that you’re trying. Tammy Baldwin…, seems plausible, but who is she again? Rising star Sam Adams maybe, oh thats right, he can’t even keep his hands off the help. There is no one. No one. Just because he isn’t a character of your creating, and has yet to jangle beneath the strings you’re attempting to pull does not discredit him as the best shot for equality that we’ve ever had. Ever. Give the man a chance. Unclench your jaws and lighten up a bit.
oh, and btw… “The African American community did not sit back and wait for the HRC’s of the world to act, they protested in the streets demanding equal rights” …Thats right, one day we just decided that this whole Jim Crow thing was a bummer and it was high time we did something about it. The civil rights movement took one hundred years to get moving (three hundred if you start the clock in the 1600’s when the first slaves arrived in the US). One hundred years of lynching, sub-standard education, forced separation and other dehumanizing forms of disenfranchisement too long to list. One hundred years of struggle. So by my count, we’re (and by we, i mean homosexuals in all our varied hues and tax brackets) are actually doing pretty fucking fantastic right about now.
You think its tough not being able to marry the person of your choosing, well, life is hard and full of disappointment. Its going to take more than some online bitching to get those rings on your fingers. You want gay rights front and center, than make those leaders who can bring it about. African Americans didn’t just click our slippers and pop out Obama. Fuck, we didn’t even make him, America made him. It took generations for this country to evolve. Until that knight in shining armor shows up, he’s the best we got.
GJR
You know, I hate to be argumentative, but I think that this issue needs to be addressed: that of certain perceptions in the black community about gay people and the problems that gay people have in terms of civil rights.
Too many times have I heard comments like, “Were gay people slaves?” “Were gay people not allowed to seat at lunch counters?”
Etc. No one, especially me, will ever look down and diminish the immeasurable suffering that blacks have suffered from the very beginning of this country. No one disputes that the suffering by blacks in this country has been horrendous, and demeaning and that you can’t have even a clue about its scope if you haven’t been in the situation yourself.
But what enrages me is when blacks who have no clue about what it it is to be gay start with this, “Being gay is nothing to what blacks have suffered..” or “My roommate laughed when someone said ‘gay is the new black'” First of all, if you want to claim the prize of being the minority group that has suffered most of all, should you then not have the most empathy toward other groups who have also suffered? Should you not say, damn, by God, I’ll never let another group suffer if I can help it.
But that’s what happened in California with Prop 8. It absolutely dumbfounds me who are African American can celebrate (and rightfully so!) the fact that a page of division and hatred and discriminated in American history was turned and an African American man was elected president yet some (not all! including the blessed NAACP of California who wrote an amicus brief AGAINST Prop 8)decided, well, it’s a new day for ME, but hey, I’m going to vote to take the rights away from others afforded to them by the California constitution, it’s too much for me to NOT check a box on the ballot. Now many rightfully say that it wasn’t just the blacks that did this, it’s true. But this difference between an African American who may well have had to ride at the back of the bus and Rick Warren is that the African American DOES have this history of abuse and discrimination and insults and misery whereas Rick Warren is a privileged, ignorant asshole. Yes, I expect one group who has suffered to show empathy and understanding for another group who has suffered. If ONE African American in California voted for Prop 8, I think they are hypocrites because they failed to LEARN anything from the experience, when you are down, you don’t kick the people who are even further down.
The whole problems lies with this false equivalence. Many want to see a split screen of blacks and Harvey Milk being denied service at a lunch counter, riding at the back of the bus or in chains as a slave. That is the whole point. It’s a DIFFERENT form of discrimination and suffering.
If you are a white gay man, you have no fucking clue of what it meant to suffer like an African American
But if you are African American or gay, you have no fucking clue of what it means:
– To have been Jewish and to have survived a concentration camp during the Holocaust
– To be a native American and have had your entire people butchered off the face of the earth
– To have lived under Mao or Stalin and be one of literally MILLIONS to starve to death
– To have lived under Latin American dictators where hundreds of thousands were tortured on a regular basis
– TO be disabled and have to fight to even use the toilet in a public place or to have any assistance to be able to learn and be a productive citizen in society
Yes, you’re right, I don’t have a picture of Harvey Milk being denied service at a lunch counter in the 1960’s south. What can I offer about the glorious history of gay people:
1) Since the beginning of time, gay people have been beaten and murdered
2) If you’re black, you’ve had a lot of people hate you, but what has probably never happened in the history of the world, your own family rejects you because your black. Family’s reject gay people all the time
3) Since the beginning of time to about 25 years ago, and as is still the case in much of the world, your whole life is a lie. You must marry someone for the sake of appearances, never be happy with your life, never ever able to be with the person you want to be with or..
4) Be in a closet and stay unmarried, notice how your career doesn’t advance, rumors spread about you, you are left out of family events, friends you’ve had for a lifetime are no longer there.
5) Until very recently, being discovered meant being immediately fired from your job and they could say it’s because you’re gay
6) Today in approximately 34 states, you can look at someone in the eye and say they are fired because they are gay. Happened just last week. You have little legal recourse.
7) Particularly in this country, gay people were murdered and law enforcement looked the other way. In fact, many in the public approved of this vigilante justice.
8) Severe beatings, hazings and abuse of gay people are commonplace. I myself got out of gym because the hazing got so severe.
9) Even today, someone can murder you if you are gay and still get off with a “gay fright defense” – “Well, he was going to make a pass at me…you I fought back…”
10) Think housing discrimination is bad for blacks? Try being a gay person or a lesbian trying to move into a place with a partner. I lived in a building in New Haven CT. I was gay but lived alone. I saw what happened the day a lesbian couple tried to move in. They were told the apartment was taken, then then I heard the landlord say he wasn’t renting to know fucking dykes..
11) If you are black, you suffered immeasureable discrimination but at least you had a community to back you up and provide you with support. You had a built-in support network. If you are gay, until around 20 years ago, you had to suffer completely alone. There were no laws and statutes to protect you. Many could not turn to their families for support, they had no one.
12) If you are black and straight, as much as you suffered, you could still come home to and be married to the person you loved (assuming that person was also black up to like 35 years ago, if you were gay, you had to hide who you are at work, never be seen in public with someone considered gay, then could not even build a home with someone you loved without real threats of violence or even murder. Gays have been run out of neighborhoods just like blacks have
13) And the final bullshit argument, “You don’t have to tell people you’re gay.., but people can see I’m black..” Um, first, gay people are singled out all of the time for the way they speak, the way they dress, who they associate with, and God forbid they show any public affection, it can mean literally death. A woman in California was gang-raped because she had a gay sticker on her car.
So what is the point of this? I get sick of straight blacks just proclaiming “gay suffering ain’t as bad as black” as if they say “the sky is blue” with no fucking clue or no knowledge of what the reality is. If you want to play the “who suffered most” game:
Um, were blacks slaves AND six million were annihilated in concentration camps during the Holocaust? Were they? Were they?
No they were not. “Black suffering ain’t as bad as Jewish”, “My Jewish roommate laughed when people compared the black struggle to the Jewish struggle…” There is always another group which can be argued to have suffered MORE.
A better approach is for everybody to say, hey, I have no clue what the other group suffered. I’m not going comparisons because they are apples and oranges, different forms of suffering, discrimination and violence. Instead of saying “A” suffered more than “B”, how about saying “A”, “B”, “C”, “D” all suffered horribly and we can snipe back and forth about who gets the prize of having suffered most, we should all join together as a coalition to stop people like Bush/McCain/Sarah Palin/Jeb Bush who are there to make the suffering of all minority groups worse.
Oh and it’s time for a little education on a phrase:
When someone says, “X…is the new black” what it means is that, at a certain period of time, a certain group is used as the whipping boy and the object of discrimination because it is politically convenient. Does anybody want to dispute that in 2004 gays were at the center of attention because Bush made gay marriage and the demonization of gay people a political point to get Republicans to the polls? Yes, indeed, in 2004, “Gay was the new black..” Then they started the Mexican hatred thing, Mexican immigrants were treated like the scum of the earth, “Mexican was the new black..” And when they started the racist associations against Obama in 2008, know what I said, “Black is the new black..” It’s an expression, that’s all it means.
Robert, NYC
GJR, I totally concur with your opinion. Obama of all people and African-American people in general should stop with the doublestandard on equality issues. That they suffered terribly cannot be disputed but to imply that they have suffered more than any group isn’t true if you look around the world. The Holocaust comes to mind for starters. African-Americans didn’t end up in death camps because of who they were or that their existence wasn’t compatible with the white Aryan mindset. I’m not black nor am I Jewish, but to assume that one group suffered more than any other and therefore not entitled to identical rights because they suffered less is discrimination of the worst kind and bigotry at best. Brian Miller’s comments in that respect are well justified. If right wingers and their religous cultists had their way, we too would be anihiliated if they could get away with it and many African Americans I daresay wouldn’t raise an eyebrow, especially the haters who voted for H8, among others. If I recall rightly, there were many whites who marched on Selma with Dr. King…..but that of course is overlooked. Take a look at clips from that march and you’ll see them, some were even murdered for standing up to discrimination and who knows, some may even have been gay.
GJR
The other thing that people have to keep in mind is that all of the rights of minority groups in this country came also to a large part because people with more power and more rights made it possible to do so.
How did women get the right to vote? Because a lot of men who had that right looked inside themselves and said it was wrong for women to be excluded.
How did African Americans get more rights? In part because of great people like MLK, Malcolm X, Jesse Jackson and many others. But also because of people like LBJ who advanced the Great Society, who said the party would be splintered for a generation because of this struggle for civil rights.
How did Kennedy (who also helped to advance civil rights) get elected when Catholics were treated like second class citizens. Because those of the more popular religions reached out and saw something unique in him, were able to set their bigotry aside.
How were Hispanic agricultural workers in California given more rights? Partly because of great people like Delores Huerta and the United Farm Workers but also because a lot of white people deplored their horrible treatment and participated in the protests.
How was Obama elected? Yes, it was huge support from African Americans. But it was also a lot of soul searching of many white people. I talked to at least 20 bigoted white people and explained that Obama is a great human being, he will work for all of us [the jury is still out on us gays], his skin color doesn’t matter. There was a lot of soul-searching by white people and thank goodness they came to the right conclusion.
And now we have the struggle for gay rights. Gay people alone cannot get themselves rights through legislation and cannot change attitudes alone. Like the people listed above who had to step outside their own comfort zone to give others rights, it will take a whole lot of help from other people who say, “This group is different from me..but I will support their rights”
Which is why we need the African American community on board to help us. They have an inherent understanding of beatings, housing, job and education discrimination. They know what it means to be treated like a second class citizen.
That is why it breaks my heart when SOME straight blacks just laugh or roll their eyes at the idea of gay rights.
The whole history of civil rights in our country has come from other groups reaching out to help pull them up. That is what the gay community needs too.
GJR
One more excellent quote:
http://www.asianweek.com/2008/11/22/why-gay-marriage-is-an-asian-american-matter/
The reason Asian Americans were able to ultimately triumph over discriminatory laws in the last century (the Chinese Exclusion Act, anti-miscegenation measures, etc.) is not because Asians multiplied like rabbits, banded together in overwhelming numbers and steamrolled over injustices. It’s because non-Asian allies recognized the importance of equal rights for all. Strength in numbers was indeed a factor, but those numbers were comprised of people as diverse as this nation.
Likewise, the fight for marriage equality gained tremendous momentum after Prop 8 passed, culminating in nationwide protests this past Saturday, because gays and lesbians were offered the support of straight allies who understand the sentiment Ochs expressed decades ago. This is not just a battle for gay rights — it’s a battle for the integrity of the United States.
What do Asian Americans and gays have in common, aside from being minorities? Both groups know what it’s like to be discriminated against, both groups have suffered hate crimes and, most importantly, both groups have a responsibility to stand up for the ideals expressed in the U.S. Constitution — a responsibility that rests on the shoulders of everybody who chooses to enjoy the freedoms of this country.
Mister C
No% 33 @ Brian Miller you said
No Brian not……But I was in a car accident when I lived in NYC and had to catch a taxi and called for one and when it arrived a white couple was trying to get in and when I got in instead a white cop told me “to get the fuck out the cab†I only got the cab still because the driver refuse to pick up the other people knowing it wasn’t them that called and it was me and my then partner.
OK, Brian my regrets to your family. However I believe back then Germany was a dictatorship????? Ala Hitler and the Nazi’s so that was a country that didn’t embrace FREEDOM.
In this country we consider it to be The “Land of the FREE, Home of the Brave�???? While slaves were not equal nor free they were mistreated. And lets not go into the segregation days of the 50’s and early 60’s My Aunts were truly hosed and had dogs sicked on them in Alabama
Lets understand something I never said that Gays were discriminated against. YES we are. But then what about Gays that discriminate against other Gays due to race, class status, etc??????…Why do our civil rights LGBTQ groups refuse to address those issues?
Understandable that we all have differences that’s a given. But when it turns to hate and biasness the buck must stop and it has to stop with our community.
Exactly it really is.But I guess what I am pointing out is the hypocrisies of our community. So what Barack doesn’t believe in Gay Marriage and instead civil unions Hillary feels the same but her Gay supporters seem to think that’s okay and I keep scratching my head on that one. However, Isn’t the benefits and the right to be the next of kin to see after them if something happens more important than anything?
Moreover and if we fight and finally get the right to marry and then all these GAY DIVORCES start to climb to alarming rates.
Question: Was our fight worth it, or are we seeing this as monkey see, monkey do??? Because if we are then precious time and energy was WASTED!
GJR
@Mister C:
You say: Lets understand something I never said that Gays were discriminated against. YES we are. But then what about Gays that discriminate against other Gays due to race, class status, etc??????…Why do our civil rights LGBTQ groups refuse to address those issues?
And I say gay people who are racist should be condemned for their actions and not tolerated in any way. You really paint with a wide brush. I am not racist, have contributed to the UNCF for 20 years, have always supported affirmative action even though I am a white guy. I would not be friends with gay people who are racist. Not all gay people are like that by far. In fact, if you look at the civil rights movement, you will see that gay people were often right there supporting African Americans.
GJR
@Mister C:
One other thing, Mister C. We say a lot of great things about being “Home of the Brave”, many countries have great slogans too. But the fact is, up to this very day, things are still more “equal” for some than others.
You get all sorts of rights in this country unless:
You are African American
You are gay
You are a woman
You are disabled
You are Muslim
You are a Wiccan etc.
Then in many ways you get less rights. Go back 30 years in time and you will see this as even more pronounced.
And the argument about concentration camps illustrates simply that African Americans were not the only ones to suffer miserably and, if you want to really press the argument, maybe not the ones to suffer “most of all” – looking at the Holocaust, Cambodia where 1/3 of the population was wiped out etc.
Mister C
Wait a minute GJR and Robert NYC
Truth be told Because Obama was elected President. Doesn’t meant SHIT Blacks and other minorities are still being discriminated against in this COUNTRY
As far as these examples that you used. None of them happened in AMERICA. What happened to my people was in AMERICA! The place who claim to be HOME OF THE BRAVE AND THE LAND OF THE FREE.
Since you want to bring up Prop 8. Lets do that. Everyone wants to keep mentioning this 70% Bull. Okay lets add up the total numbers of Blacks and the total number of whites in California (per body)and add the total number by bodies that supported Prop 8. You will see that we were not the group that pushed it over the edge But it’s all good. And it’s so DAMN amazing how Gays continue to say these things putting all Blacks in one basket…SHIT THAT’S ENOUGH PREJUDICE right there. By the way 30% of gays in California didn’t even bother to vote…. So what about that?
Does the Gay community has help? I thought we did. Then what the hell is HRC, PFLAG, GLAAD…..What is their purpose? As a Black Gay Male who doesn’t tolerate homophobia from anyone I am truly offended by the fact that I’m being bunched with all these scenarios. There are Blacks who have helped alot in the fight for LGTBTQ equality unfortunately when the masses of non-blacks get upset with us. We have become ONE commencing their anger. And do remember HOMPHOBIA is not designated to one race. I can name many whites, Hispanics, and other races who are against us (Gays) But there is no need for that. But for some reason Blacks seem to IRK the very foundation of this community.
Don’t pick a race when being angered about equality go after the whole crew. But when your fight becomes targeted to a certain group that’s when it doesn’t work.
And it won’t….We all have a lot of work to do!
Mister C
NO GJR IN THIS COUNTRY……AMERICA
THIS COUNTRY NAME A GROUP WHO WAS TREATED WORSE IN THIS COUNTRY!
GJR
@Mister C:
No you wait a minute Mister C
Nobody here claimed electing Obama was a magic solution to racism in America. It goes on every day here.
The other stuff doesn’t happen in America:
Gays are not beaten and murdered in America? (look back at the history of the country, even in the 40’s, 50’s, Matthew Sheppard)
Gay housing and job discrimination didn’t happen in America?
People didn’t put up a gay fright defense for murdering gays in America and people didn’t support them on it in America?
Gay people were not fired on the spot when they discovered they were gay in America?
Gay people were not forced to live a lie about who they are in America?
Gay people don’t face the risk of physical violence every day in America?
And regarding Prop 8- I REPEAT. If 1 African American, just ONE, voted for Prop 8 as they rejoiced about a new era in America and voted to take the rights away from others they are a hypocrite. If ONE did it. Nobody here is talking about YOU in this context, unless you voted YES on prop 8.
I think racism in the gay community must be addressed. But so too must be homophobia in the African American community – see the McClurkins, go back to the 1970’s, where Donna Summer made MILLIONS as a gay icon, then when she cashed in, she started with this “homosexuality is a sin” shit. Even Obama and Al Sharpton have addressed the issue of homophobia in the African American community. I will be happy to show you the quotes.
GJR
@Mister C:
You didn’t read my list of what happens to gay people in this country. Until you give up on the idea “we are treated WORSE”, we cannot make progress. Why not just say we all suffered, they are different forms of suffering
And like I said in my post above: You can have it both ways. If you want the prize of suffering most of all, then why can’t you have the most wisdom about suffering for other people. If someone in California voted for Prop 8, I’m GLAD they suffered because they could look for 5 seconds and say, “Gee, this is another group which really suffered…” I’m not gonna provide them a fucking picture of gays being hosed in the 60’s or lynched, but I can show them pictures of Matthew Sheppard and other gay people murdered and beaten to the verge of death throughout history. I can show you the very DIFFERENT hell gay people suffered in this country. I can show you pictures of gay people being smacked with billy clubs because they were at a gay bar. I can show you cases of gay people murdered and the police looked the other way, the killers NEVER caught.
afrolito
@Brian Miller:
You said:
“Frankly, if my grandmother had taken your view of the universe and applied it during the Civil Rights Era, instead of marching in the streets for enfranchisement of black Americans, she would have insisted that “black Americans are self-absorbed because they weren’t barbecued in Dachau like my family was.” She’d have insisted that black Americans should just ride at the back of the bus, and that she and her dead friends and family would have KILLED for a seat on a segregated bus in exchange for the Nazi death camps.
Thank God she recognized that people are people, and that government should NEVER have the ability to discriminate based on an innate characteristic. Thank God she did for you and me what YOU aren’t willing to do for others who are different from you.
Until you accept that ALL people have rights, and stop trying to play the oppression Olympics, you’re the self-absorbed one. The reality is that people trying to make your “point” wouldn’t win the gold, they wouldn’t win the bronze, they wouldn’t even qualify for the semi-finals.”
That’s real sweet your granny marched for civil rights (cue the violins), but what does that have to do with the price of tea in China? 6 million jews (gays, gypsies, the mentally ill, peasants, etc) died during the second world war, and so did MILLIONS of africans in the bottom of slave ships headed for the ‘new world”. The bottom of the mid atlantic ocean is virtual graveyard.
Everyone deserves to be treated equally, and not once did I say anything to the contrary. I stand by my words.
And to the moron who said blacks don’t understand what it’s like to be gay. That self absorbed (moronic) statement alone validates everything I said before. I’m BLACK AND GAY, and so are millions of others around the world. Not to mention asian gays,latino gays,mixed gays, and everything else. Of course most white gay men feel they are at the top of the food chain.
GJR
@afrolito:
I think you are getting upset for nothing. The whole point of this discussion is that NOBODY should claim the prize of who suffered the most. I brought up the Holocaust analogy in response to what I hear again and again from many straight black people, “Blacks have suffered much more than gay people” – there is always one group or another who can claim they suffered most – the Rwandans, the Armenians, the 15-30 million killed under Stalian. This mindset is not productive.
My issue arises specifically when this same claim is being made again and again, “The blacks have suffered more than the gays” While nobody will dispute that blacks has suffered untold misery and discrimination, I’m sorry but you just can’t add up those apples and oranges, like I said in the post above, among other things:
Discrimination of African Americans is directed at one group, discrimination against gays and lesbians is directed against millions of individuals. We can point out murders and violence and housing discrimination and job discrimination on both sides. So I say we should ALL stop saying “My group suffered more..”
I don’t know which moron said black people don’t understand what it means to be gay, I’ve tried to clearly state in my posts that its is SOME STRAIGHT black people who don’t understand, who dismiss gay rights as nothing. I’ve seen this happen in conversations many times. But there were even some gay people on this site who said they were African American who threw out the “blacks suffered more than gays” thing. All I can say is that there are different perspectives to the argument and comparing the black discrimination situation to the gay one is as apt as comparing the black discrimination situation with the Killing Fields in Cambodia – different forms of discrimination, different types of violence, different targets of discrimination.
Mister C
Well GJR I guess we are on the same page. These issues must be adressed on ALL FRONTS! I’m just personally tired of all Blacks being considered HOMOPHOBIC when it’s conveinient for folks to say so.
Because we’re not! Just like we need to educate our community so do caucasians, and latinos, and Native Americans, and Asians.
Becky
The second half of your piece is pretty lame. Do gays and lesbians need the approval or permission of Barack Obama or any other politican to get things done. I think not.
Although I don’t want this to be seen as an endorsement of George Bush, the fact is that the most progress toward equality of gays and lesbians was made during the eight years when there was a hostile administration in Washington.
Like the civil rights of African-Americans–and like all social and economic change–the change comes from the bottom up. The mistake people like you make is that it is possible to impose change from the top.
The first thing that changes is society and culture–then businesses, out of the profit motive, start to adjust, and then usually the courts, out of necessity, start to reconginze the changes, and the very last are the politicans with their fingers in the air feeling which way the wind blows.
It is wonderful that Obama is able to say the words “gay” and “lesbian” without cringing. It is great that he claims he will end DOMA and “don’t ask don’t tell”—but he does not have a good record of achievemnt. He would not cosponsor or even support a bill that would have removed the same sex domestic partner immigration problem. He, by failing to correct the actual use of his voice and words that were being used by Proposition 8 proponents, and just plain failing to lift a finger, is the single person most responslbe for the passage of Propositon 8.
To paraphase one of the psalms:
“Put not your faith in princes–they can not save.”
~Becky
GJR
@Becky:
Becky, I think most would agree 100% with what you have to say.
But a couple of things:
Some things we cannot do alone:
Federal Hate crimes legislation is required because you just count count on what some hick state administration in Florida, Mississippi etc. will do. Like the voting rights act, you have to step in on a federal level, because some states just will not cooperate.
Same goes for DADT, DOMA. These are things that must be done on a federal level.
Same goes for civil unions. The civil rights for same sex marriage should not depend on whether the governor is a Democrat or a Republican, the fear that an existing marriage can be repealed at any moment.
Same goes for gay adoptions: Republicans hate abortions so much, but pass laws that say gay people can’t adopt. We need some federal laws on that issue.
We CAN and MUST organize more as a community, which includes educating our gay and lesbian friends who “don’t do” politics.
For me personally, my donations will now FIRST go to defeating Prop 8 and similar causes, because I’ve seen that those things are far from a priority for the general public.
Alfredo Munoz
There exists another aspect of homosexuality often ascribed to the act of two or more of the same sex embracing in intercourse. This behavior is debated among top researchers and experimenters to be either an abomination of God or the most fabulous lifestyle in modern culture.
Its origins are obscure and relatively unknown, but the first documented traces of this behavior appear during the Greco-Roman era, but at the time it was referred to as “wrestling.” The Greeks, of course, were all gay as modern playwrights. Sometimes people say that homosexuality is wrong. We pitty these people. They are the people who enjoy to watch the grandmother touchin her dog. Laugh at them
Famous Homosexuals :
Elton John
John Winston Howard
Fred Phelps
Mullah Omar
Gore Vidal
Oscar Wilde
Adolf Hitler
George W. Bush
Benito Mussolini
Robert, NYC
@Alfredo Munoz:
Alfredo, are you serious….Fred Phelps and George Bush? On what do you base that?
Alfredo Munoz
My apologies for this extrapolation.It is surmised on the premise that those who villify a cause or person will demonize a cause or a person because of the fear it more accurately represents themselves.
froggyola
@Robert, NYC: He just got into the Whitehouse. Let the man unpack his undies and see what happens. Give it some time.