For an openly gay U.S. representative, Massachusetts’ Barney Frank sure does know how to piss of the homos. That Frank is a pessimist and a crankypanks isn’t new. Neither is his tendency to support things the gay community hates and not support things the gay community likes. But does all that add up to a chance to so publicly rebuke the man? Oh, yes, yes it does. And that’s just what more than one speaker at the National Equality March just did.
It began in earnest when co-organizer Robin McGehee took the stage. After thanking all the necessary parties with Kip Williams, McGehee delivered this message to Frank: “You may say that marches don’t matter. I say that you are out of touch in the seat of power you are clearly enjoying. … This march is not useless by the people that we know are suffering. Our brothers and sisters who are dying from the self-hate, the self-violence, and hate crimes that come from the community and government that will not honor our right to live free and equal in this country. And we are here to use our First Amendment right, Congressman Frank, to speak out against the prejudice that we so want you to speak out against as well.”
But it didn’t end there. When Lady Gaga took the stage, she had our own message for the man who called the National Equality March “useless” and who claimed “the only thing [attendees are] going to be putting pressure on is the grass.”
Said Gaga: “And to Barney Frank, we are putting more than pressure on this grass. And today this grass is ours.”
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
Them’s a bitchslappin’! Time to officially add Frank next to Obama’s name on the list of inactive gay advocates?
Landon Bryce
Please contact Barney Frank’s office and let them know how disgusted you are by his continued opposition to any effort to bring equality to gay people:
2252 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515-2104
Phone: 202-225-5931
Mark
I like Barney but he could use a long walk. Why would anyone belittle a group of oppressed American’s their desire to march in Washington. He sadly out of touch. He should apologize.
Julius
As a side note, why is it, when someone in our community disagrees with where the tide is going, they’re immediately tagged with “self-hating”?
It’s a cheap, jejune, school-yard defence tactic – but it got the girl lots of lovely clapping and applause and that’s what she needed.
Fitz
If I was driving home, and saw Barny Frank getting bashed, I would totally change the radio station.
hephaestion
Barney Frank could use a few etiquette classes, for sure, but he was basically right when he said this march would achieve little. As all Washingtonians know, there are at least two “nationwide” marches in DC every day. No one here in DC notices them anymore, because we see them daily. This march was on a Sunday so only a handful of tourists saw them at all. Barney Frank’s point was that their energies would be more effective if they directly conacted their representatives. I would add that marches on state capitols are more effective. But I thank those who marched Sunday and hope they had a nice time.
scott ny'er
I don’t get all the hate on Barney. Hasn’t he been in office and doing stuff for gay peeps all these years? Maybe he knows stuff that we don’t because he’s been in the trenches of Congress? Or is he really just another windbag? I’m just asking for peeps in the know.
Could he have been more diplomatic? Probably. But such hate. Shouldn’t that be saved for the peeps who bash us. And the religious zealots who attack us.
ksu499
Barney is much more a Democrat than he is gay. He has shown time and again that if it comes pushing gay equal rights forward or protecting the Democratic Party from embarrassment or being shown unfavorably, he will always move to protect the Democratic Party.
Fitz
Scott: if he had been an advocate for our community, it wouldn’t be illegal to fire you, or deny you a rental or mortgage because you are gay. Or to tax you more than your neighbors. Or to screw you when your partner dies. OR– he would have at least been on the side of those who want equal treatment. He is our Uncle Tom.
Landon Bryce
Scott:
Please list every time you can remember when Barney Frank has put the interests of gay people in general above his own interests or those of the DNC. Actually, I’ll do it for you:
That’s why the hate on Barney. He hurt all gay people with the prostitution scandal and has never failed to sell us out at the drop of a hat. We would all be in much better shape had there never been a Barney Frank.
Austin
Like it or not, Barney was Right.
Lots of self appointed, self aggrandizing media whores
got attention letting off steam.
These are my “leaders”…?
Did I get to vote for any of these people? NO.
Lady Gaga ,Civil Rights advocate!..giggle..”represents” me? NO.
The march is over, accomplished nothing but deplete our wallets.
Wasn’t even mentioned on the evening news here in Texas.
Until I saw it hear, I didn’t know it had happened.
Cam
No. 3 · Julius said…
As a side note, why is it, when someone in our community disagrees with where the tide is going, they’re immediately tagged with “self-hating”?
_______________________________________________
He isn’t being tagged because he dissagrees. He is being tagged because whenever he isn’t involved in something he becomes pissy and storms off. He tells us we need to act like the NRA and AARP, yet it never occures to him that our struggle is of a civil rights nature…why? Because he is a privilged Congressman who deals with none of the day to day struggles we deal with. I’ve come out every place I’ve worked, as have many of us. Barney never has, he was dragged out of the closet kicking and screaming by a prostitution scandal…the scandal being that the prostitute was his boyfriend who was running the ring out of Frank’s office. It is doubtful he would have come out if this hadn’t happened. He has been assigned the role of gay advocate by the community because people assumed that somebody gay and in Congress would push for our rights…..well for years he said nothing got done because of the republicans…whats his excuse now? If he TRULY thought that the March was useless, then why get so angry and come out against it? If it was useless then it is also harmless. What Frank is scared of, is that his job has been to “Keep the Gays Quiet” and Keep “The Gays” off Obama’s back. The march made it look like he couldn’t do that, and all he really cares about is his influence, authority and a possible appointment in the Administration.
Cam
Oh and one more thing, Frank wants us to act like AARP and the NRA because he sees gay rights as just something else that he is supposed to be bribed to support.
Well AARP hasn’t gotten health care through yet and the NRA keeps dealing with more gun control laws nationwide and they are both gigantic organizations, so just how much money do gays need before congress will talk to us Barney? Obama is lucky that Lyndon Johnson was braver than Obama has been so far.
scott ny'er
according to Wiki (so there’s that possibility of not being correct):
Barney has been out since 1987. Not because of the scandal. Sheesh.
I’d have to do more research before having a strong opinion on him. And hear his speeches. To me, being in a forum of politics, it’s damned if you do or damned if you don’t. It’s tricky to try and appease people while navigating the intricacies of court. That’s why you always see broken promises. Everywhere. Especially, the higher one gets. Everyone wants a piece of you.
I’m not saying I’m for the guy. But I’m not hanging him either. He’s one of the most powerful peeps in Congress and he’s gay. And out. That says a lot.
Landon Bryce
Scott:
Barney Frank was one of the first people who decided to come out because the press would have outed him had he not come out himself. There is not indication he would have come out on his own, though. You are right that the prostitution scandal came later, but it is still okay to be angry at Barney for not taking his status as the only openly gay Congressman ever at that point seriously enough to stay further away from sketchy people. He needed to be Sidney Poitier, proving that we were just as good as everyone else by being better. Instead, he was Bill Clinton, proving we were all worse than ordinary people by being just like them. There would have been more gay people in Congress by now had Barney either behaved himself or never existed.
Cam
No. 13 · scott ny’er Said
“ccording to Wiki (so there’s that possibility of not being correct):
Barney has been out since 1987. Not because of the scandal. Sheesh.”
Scott….this is from the Washington Post, about the gay Prostitute “Gobie” that Frank was Living with and Dating.
“Inlate 1985, Gobie says, he began to use Frank’s apartment and two other locations for prostitution. Frank knew about the prostitution all along, but it was never explicitly discussed, Gobie says.
“He knew exactly what I was doing,” Gobie said. “It was pretty obvious. If he had to come home early {from work}, he would call home to be sure the coast was clear . . . . He was living vicariously through me. He said it was kind of a thrill, and if he had been 20 years younger he might be doing the same thing.”
Frank denies that he knew, saying he learned from his landlord and kicked Gobie out in August 1987. Gobie supports this part of Frank’s story.”
_______
Isn’t it interesting…the scandal broke and was in the papers around that time, and wow, coincidentally that is the year that Wiki has said he came out….my my my.
michael
Barney, the HRC, the whole Washington gay pseudo elite do not want us to be a part of our own destiny, except for our cash. They want to run the show and just how is that working out for us so far? Well, this is how it is working out for us, I cannot believe that this is not the lead story today on Queerty
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/#33268417
Outside of the HRC camp, we are just a bunch of cheeto eating, pajama wearing nutcases and we are nowhere near getting much of anything.
J. Clarence
It was just a silly and misguided thing for Frank to say. I think his larger point was that there should be more pressure put on the Congress rather than the executive branch (which I agree with), but to simply dismiss the efforts so frankly was a mistake.
Brian
Barney Frank said “you don’t have the votes to repeal DADT or DOMA.” That is true. Marching and yelling didn’t change that and it won’t change that. If you went to the March you wasted your “gay dollars.” THAT, isn’t very smart.
MK
Barney Frank is right. This is a useless way to lobby our civil rights. It isn’t hating on anyone, just that the only good this will do is to make glbt people feel good about how to bitch constructively. It is not going to do much. What gets things moving is the need to actually ORGANIZE lobbies and push the issue in their face, not outside on their lawn. No one even cared and Congress moved not one bit on that.
This isn’t being pessimistic, it’s just being realistic. This is nothing but a media stunt that wasted an entire day.
Be more constructive, my little darlings. This is a waste of time and money.
dontblamemeivotedforhillary
“Barney Fag” about sums it up. Outed by being with hustlers. Classy! Was it an airport?
MK
Michael said:
Barney, the HRC, the whole Washington gay pseudo elite do not want us to be a part of our own destiny, except for our cash. They want to run the show and just how is that working out for us so far? Well, this is how it is working out for us, I cannot believe that this is not the lead story today on Queerty
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/#33268417
Outside of the HRC camp, we are just a bunch of cheeto eating, pajama wearing nutcases and we are nowhere near getting much of anything.
Hon… get a GRIP, lol. 🙂 We are not some “pseudo” anything. Bitch, we are on the SAME boat. When you learn about politics a little more, you will stop wasting your breath. Obama CAN’T do anything. He can suggest. It is about the CONGRESS. Learn to lobby and stop with the anti-Scientology protests which is what that looked like.
Not to dis, but Lady Gaga is the “icon” for SOME people, not all of us are feeling that. This just means that we don’t care for the people around her like Perez, the embarrassing Cuban WHITE guy with a nasty agenda. Hurtful people aren’t people I would place on a pedestal.
To get respect, you GIVE IT. 🙂
Cam
No. 19 · MK said
Barney Frank is right. This is a useless way to lobby our civil rights. It isn’t hating on anyone, just that the only good this will do is to make glbt people feel good about how to bitch constructively. It is not going to do much. What gets things moving is the need to actually ORGANIZE lobbies and push the issue in their face, not outside on their lawn. No one even cared and Congress moved not one bit on that.
____________________________
It’s part of the whole…Did the Selma bus boycott get civil rights? No, did the March on Washington? No, did King’s speeches? No….together did they do something? Yes.
People only attack something when they are pissed off/angry, or scared about it. Frank came out attacking the March. If it is REALLY useless, then why would he get so upset? He’s upset because he doesn’t want gays to push for anything. He wants to be kept in congress by telling gays “Hey, I’m working for you, don’t expect anything because those republicans will prevent it, but I’m working for you so keep sending me money!”. This was outside his reach so like a pissy bitch he had to badmouth it and then flounce off in a huff.
Landon Bryce
Are people so stupid that think the president’s speech on Saturday, immediately after winning the Noble Peace Prize would have happened without the march? Do they think it did us no good to have him endorse us more publicly? I disagree.
Do they think Harry Reid would have requested White House action on Don’t Ask Don’t Tell without the march? I disagree.
There has been more Congressional activity recently. I think that it is both directly because of the march and indirectly because it has given people opportunities to remind others to contact their representatives.
Why would anyone ignore the evidence that the march was already had positive results?
That’s dumb.
Jaroslaw
To all the negative Nancys on this post – I understand your frustration and yes, Barney is nowhere near perfect. We agree so far.
But anyone can criticize so I’m sure all of you will be running for Congress, and STAYING IN OFFICE for several terms right?
Tom
two words: TERM LIMITS
Brian
Everyone is still missing the point – 70% of the current Congress will NOT vote to repeal DADT or DOMA.
TimNCGuy
Barney Frank sells out the community when it helps the dems in general.
Recall when the first DOJ memo came out of the white house coparing gays with incest and pedophilia.
Barney’s first reaction was to condemn the memo, the DOJ and the administration.
The the White House had a little “chat” with Barney and he changed his mind. He then said teh gays were wrong about the DOJ memo and they should quiet down and not give the White House and more trouble….
Sell out!!!!
michael
MK- What a wannabe you are! And your right he cannot do anything, not even with a Democratic congress at his disposal. Wow, I guess George Bush was far more brilliant because while he had a Republican congress at his disposal he got whatever he wanted.
Well, since we have such an impotent president and a impotent congress this is what we, pajama wearing, cheeto eating losers can do. We have the power, we can determine the time line, but we are going to have to quit treating the DNC as an ally. They are not our friend and we need to get this through our head. We have to play hardball. If they do not make sufficient progress on our behalf then no cash, no votes. I can work as hard for the other team next time around as I did for the Dem.’s last time around. We have to save ourselves and stop expecting the Democrats to do it for us, nor as Hilary Rosen pointed out, our “politically sophisticated” money grubbing organization who we have allowed to represent us. There is a saying, “sometimes one must be willing to die in order to live”. This survival mode the LGBT community is living in is just eroding our souls.
marc
What is more likely to get us the civil rights we need…marching or lobbying and voting the right people in/out of Congress? Thats the only point Barney Frank was trying to make. He has been more outwardly supportive of our cause than any other politician I can think of. And YES, he’s not perfect, and neither is our system. Compromises are constantly being made because sometimes thats the only way to pass bills. Remember “dont ask, don’t tell”? It was a compromise (and turned out to be crappy policy, no doubt). Barney is a man of action, and doesn’t care to soft step and go overboard with diplomany. He shoots from the hip and sais whats on his mind. Would you rather he LIED like our past president or so many others in Congress? He has an extremlely valid point. Sure, marches can help promote education, solidarity, and community. SO CAN A WEB SITE. If ALL registered voters in the country actually voted, and all that were eligible to register actually did, and VOTED every two years for all local, state, and federal elections whenever possible, DESPITE ALL ELSE AND ALL CYNICISM, there would be a quiet, peaceful, and dramatic revolution in this country, because politians would see that their constituents would hold them to their campaign promises.
Cam
No. 24 · Jaroslaw said
To all the negative Nancys on this post – I understand your frustration and yes, Barney is nowhere near perfect. We agree so far.
But anyone can criticize so I’m sure all of you will be running for Congress, and STAYING IN OFFICE for several terms right?
_______________________________________________
Ohhhhhh, you’re SO right, what a sacrifice he has made. to be a completely privilaged Congressperson, who never deals with the day to day issues that gay men and women face. How terrible for him that he has the govt. pay for trips, food, decore etc… how horrible that he has a constant stream of yes men running around catering to his every word. Gee, It’s amazing that anybody runs for office it’s so horribe.
Look, your reasoning of “He made the sacrifice to run for office so how dare we criticize” is foolish, I live in DC, and let me tell you, those Congresspeople would sell their mothers kidney’s to keep their jobs. They are treated like kings in this town and will do whatever they have to, including sell out their constituencies to keep those jobs.
Cam
No. 29 · marc said
What is more likely to get us the civil rights we need…marching or lobbying and voting the right people in/out of Congress? Thats the only point Barney Frank was trying to make. He has been more outwardly supportive of our cause than any other politician I can think of.
__________________________________
No he hasn’t, Alcey Hastings introduced legislation to end DOMA, there is a bill int he house right now with over 170 co-sponsors to end Don’t Ask Don’t Tell, Frank has co-sponsored neither. He made a masty obnoxious remark comparing vicil rights for gays, to lobbying to get easier pill perscriptions or gun control laws.
If Marching, does nothing then why would he get so angry about it. If it is harmless then let us march without saying nasty things. He just wants to continue not doing anything and being kind of the castle, he hates the March because if others emerge to lead the struggle for gay rights, he is left with nothing. He thought he could continue to do nothing, claim it was the GOP’s fault and then worry about his next fundraiser.
Landon Bryce
Okay, Marc:
1) What would you say Barney Frank has accomplished for gay people for his time in Congress? How are we in any way better off because he has been there?
2) What moments in Barney Frank’s career can you remember him putting gay rights ahead of his own career or the interests of the DNC? When do you remember him coming through for us when the chips were down?
Jim
The uproar began this weekend when NBC’s John Harwood, after reporting on a gay rights march in Washington, relayed a dismissive quote from an anonymous administration official.
“And for a sign of how seriously the White House does or doesn’t take this opposition one adviser told me today those bloggers need to take off their pajamas, get dressed and realize that governing a closely divided country is complicated and difficult,” Harwood said.
Though the quote seemed to refer to the “internet left” in general, many bloggers are taking the quote as an affront to the gay activists, who are already angry with the president for not pushing hard enough for LGBT issues.
michael
No. 33 Jim here is the link to the Harwood segment
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/#33268417
Old Timer
Are people so stupid that think the president’s speech on Saturday, immediately after winning the Noble Peace Prize would have happened without the march?
Yeah. I am. President Obama didn’t meet with Cleve What’s-His-Name. He spoke to the group whose name shall not be mentioned here. Oh, and what’s the deal with dumping on Barney Frank? He’s one of 435 congressmen plus 100 senators, and you think he is supposed to deliver our agenda on a silver platter? How utterly stupid are you children, anyway?
Cam
No. 35 · Old Timer said…
Oh, and what’s the deal with dumping on Barney Frank? He’s one of 435 congressmen plus 100 senators, and you think he is supposed to deliver our agenda on a silver platter? How utterly stupid are you children, anyway?
______________________-
Hey Old Timer, you may want to read the posts before trying to jump in. We are dumping on Frank because he came out and publically attacked the March, etc… Name me any other Congressmen who claim they are supporters of gay rights who did that and I will happily post things about them as well.
Old Timer
Frank told the truth. The “march,” which was more like a Sunday afternoon lawn party, was a waste of time. It accomplished nothing other than giving a few thousand kids the illusion that they made a contribution to anything — which they did not. Barney Frank had the guts to say so. I salute him for it. We shouldn’t bullshit ourselves.
michael
Here is a great article by Greenwald on the march. I especially love what he says about the HRC.
“Organizations (exemplified by the truly dreadful HRC) that suck funding out of progressives and serve as liberal validators of administration conduct whose overaching devotion is to the Democratic Party and the administration rather than the causes they claim to promote (fortunately, civil liberties groups are the exception, as they have remained steadfast, unapologetic, independent and principled in harshly criticizing Obama); and,
“Deeply personalized scorn directed at those who try to hold Democrats and the Obama administration accountable — since they’re the ones who control all branches of government with huge majorities — rather than devote all their energies to the cheap and easy partisan task of ridiculing and blaming a marginalized, impotent conservative movement which is a small minority and currently wields no power in Washington”
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/10/12/fringe/
Cam
No. 37 · Old Timer said…
Frank told the truth. The “march,” which was more like a Sunday afternoon lawn party, was a waste of time. It accomplished nothing other than giving a few thousand kids the illusion that they made a contribution to anything — which they did not. Barney Frank had the guts to say so. I salute him for it. We shouldn’t bullshit ourselves.
___________________________________
Really? It did nothing? Interesting because on the News today the hosts were going after Senators pushing them on how they would vote on DOMA and not letting up until they were getting answers. HRC was shown that if they continue to cowtow then others will take the mantle away from them, large numbers of people left DC energized to go home to their home distrcits to do who knows what. If that is a failure then I’m sorry you’ve become THAT bitter. Additionally, there is the difference between telling the truth and attacking something in a pissy way, like a bitchy 3rd grade girl who didn’t get as many valentines as her friend. Frank wants to treat gay rights like another Congressional earmark that we should bribe our Congressmen to vote for. Obama is lucky that Lyndon Johnson didn’t feel the same way when he signed the Civil Rights Bills into law. He said that the Dem’s would lose the south if he did that and he did it anyway. Too bad Dems like Frank no longer have that kind of courage.
Old Timer
Cam, within a week, your silly crowd will have diverted its attention to something else — the next American Idol show, maybe — and then the real work will go on without you.
Cam
No. 40 · Old Timer said…
Cam, within a week, your silly crowd will have diverted its attention to something else — the next American Idol show, maybe — and then the real work will go on without you.
_____________________________________
Glad to see the movement is in such good hands. However the dismissive nature ofyour post shows that this post wasn’t in any way meant to add anything to the discussion, merely a way for a crotchety bitter person to let a few insults fly. Fact is, I fund-raised and donated to Obama, I used sent money into HRC, I’ve donated and canvassed for gays running for office from both parties as well as done the same for gay friendly straights, even if they weren’t in my local area, I’ve worked with groups doing outreach to churches that hate us. But of course, since I also went to this March and you disagree with it, I guess that means that I am in no way doing anything to put my money where my big mouth is. It must be wonderful to sit in your easy chair and whine and complain about others when you are finished bitching that “Murder She Wrote” isn’t on the air anymore. Hopefully this “Real Work” you talk about is something diffreent from the “Real Work” that people like Barney Frank have been doing for the last 15 years…because Frankly, THAT work has sucked.
Old Timer
Come to think of it, how come Murder She Wrote isn’t on TV anymore, god damn it? Oh, and get off my lawn.
michael
Old Timer is a great example of why it will be our youth that will lead us to our destination. Nasty ole queen who has bought into the status-quo and loves to tear down the new energy we need to forge ahead. Get over it Old Timer, the old ways of doing things are not working. The march has been positive. We have affirmation that the Obama admin. only respects those who are satisfied with his attendance at bogus social functions and are not interested in truly fighting for our rights. We have finally learned that he is not our friend and that we must stop dealing with him and his party as such. Insanity is doing the same thing the same way and expecting different results. So keep tearing us down while your ass is glued to that vinyl recliner your stuck in. It just confirms what it is we need to move away from.
Old Timer
We have affirmation that the Obama admin. only respects those who are satisfied with his attendance at bogus social functions and are not interested in truly fighting for our rights. We have finally learned that he is not our friend and that we must stop dealing with him and his party as such.
Good luck with the Taliban. That was a hell of a gay rights speech George W. made after he’d been in office for nine months. Or maybe you were thinking that gay people should shift en masse (all 10,000 to 20,000) to the Socialist Workers who co-organized your Sunday afternoon lawn party?
Mike
Let’s go out and attack other members of our community who have been doing work for LGBT rights for decades. Bravo McGehee, Bravo! Way to divide us to get nominated as “best speech”….. f-cking bravo!
Cam
No. 45 · Mike said…
Let’s go out and attack other members of our community who have been doing work for LGBT rights for decades. Bravo McGehee, Bravo! Way to divide us to get nominated as “best speech”….. f-cking bravo!
________________________________
Once again, please point me to anything Barney Frank has done to improve the lives of the LGTB community.
Fitz
If the old whore hiring, fat, tweed addicted congressman is right (that the march was useless) where does it leave us if we aren’t happy with the status? If being politically active and helping elect a supposedly humanistic president AND giving his party a super majority STILL leaves us in the cold, where are we? Well– if Barny is right, then even protesting and using our voice is useless. So that leaves us with either accepting that we will never be equals, or considering the option of violence. I hope that he is wrong. I hope that my two choices aren’t to either tolerate things never getting better, or becoming violent. Because I sure as fuck am not content with how things are.
Old Timer
Because I sure as fuck am not content with how things are.
So what do you do? Attack your friends. How old are you, anyway? Five?
Fitz
Ha ha. I am old. Old-old. Old enough to know that deeds are more important than words.
Alan
To belittle any American for standing up and marching in Washington for their rights is an act of arrogance. He is OUT OF TOUCH.
Old Timer
Ha ha. I am old. Old-old. Old enough to know that deeds are more important than words.
If you’re old enough to know that deeds are more important than words, then what are you doing supporting a pose like the Equality march?
Landon Bryce
Old Timer:
You apparently never heard of Harvey Milk. His key message was: “You’ve got to give them hope.”
Why do you want to destroy other people’s hope?
Are you jealous of it?
Do you thing you have contributed anything to this conversation other than hatefulness or the defense of hatefulness?
You have not.
What on earth is wrong with you?
Brian Miller
Barney was technically correct… A march alone won’t achieve goals.
We need to put the DNC on notice:
No DOMA repeal and DADT repeal by 2010, no more gay votes, gay money and gay volunteers. And we’ll ask our allies to stay home too. Good luck keeping that majority when 10% of the electorate walks out on you, Democrats.
LGBT people have worked hard for you against big odds for years. Now it’s your turn to deliver. If you don’t, kiss your majority goodbye.
Fitz
Brian- I agree 100%. It’s on us now to have the courage to not vote for the lesser of two evils ever again.
DanW
I’m sorry. Barney Frank is right–although he might have been a little more tactful in how he said it–the march won’t make a difference in how the larger straight community views us, or in getting our legislation passed in Congress. All NEM provided was a stage for angry people to vent at those they believe have failed the queer community. My husband watched some of the CSPAN coverage and was repelled by the anger. Great advertising, isn’t it?
I was looking at the SF Chronicle blog linked to their coverage of NEM, and most of the posters were pissed at US, not Congress and certainly not Rep. Frank. They wish we would shut up and go away. And, the queer community want people we have just alienated to vote in favor of same-sex marriage, let alone hate crimes legislation. We blew it, people! At this rate, we will never get marriage. Better be satisfied with civil unions.
schlukitz
Old Timer has developed, as most senior citizens can attest to, a bad case of constipation which tends to make one crabby, cranky, crotchety and cantankerous.
He needs to chew on some Feen-a-Mint or nibble on some Ex-Lax. I’m sure Old Timers is old enough to remember what those products were good for.
Perhaps after taking a healthy dump for himself, he won’t have so much shit to lay on our heads anymore!
Lady Ga-Gasp
All you march-haters are soooo right. When I get to the pearly gates, I look forward to passing along your message of ‘march=meh” to: MLK, Harvey, the 1st gay people who marched unnoticed in our cities in the 50’s, RFK, Jesus, and… last but not least, the founder of the Macy’s Thanksgiving Day Parade. Marches don’t matter. I’ll pass it along.
Rob Moore
This march at least got some attention. I think it would have been more effective to have marched on a Friday or even a Saturday without a permit and without asking the permission of the government that we help to elect every few years. I am in my mid-50s and we are still having the same conversations and debates we were having in my late teens. Enough with the fucking conversation. It is time for us to shit or get off the pot and hold to account the politicians who happily take our money for their campaigns and take our votes as a given then ignore us until the next campaign. We are dumb enough to keep repeating and enabling. I’ll continue to vote and might even donate money here and there, but I really want to rub their noses in the neglect they dish out for us.
A-Gay
No DOMA repeal and DADT repeal by 2010, no more gay votes, gay money and gay volunteers. And we’ll ask our allies to stay home too. Good luck keeping that majority when 10% of the electorate walks out on you, Democrats.
Where are you going to go? To the Republican Party? Get real.
Brian Miller
Where are you going to go? To the Republican Party? Get real.
Speaking personally, I don’t need to “go” anywhere. The need to “belong” to a party whose actions on the issues that matter is identical to the Republicans has created big-time myopia.
From a practical legal perspective on LGBT issues, there’s no difference between VP Joe Biden (who voted for DOMA and DADT) and Tom DeLay. Yet HRC kissed Biden’s ass so hard it left hickies.
Joe Solomonese hailed Biden as a “true ally for equality.” Joe Biden. Pro-DOMA Joe Biden. Pro-DADT Joe Biden.
If that’s “the choice,” then I’ll vote third party or drop out of voting and focus exclusively on single-issue politics. If enough people do that, the Democrats will have to get their act together or suffer as a permanent fractured minority party.
Brian Miller
most of the posters were pissed at US, not Congress and certainly not Rep. Frank. They wish we would shut up and go away.
That’s a common attitude and I’ve often recommended that we do just that. Live in a state where you’re not equal, with politicians and pundits telling you to shut up and go away?
Take their advice! Close your business, sell your house, and move to another state (or country like Canada) that doesn’t feel a need to shit on you and then tell you to “get over it.”
California’s fiscal crisis has roots in a lot of different things, but one of them is its anti-gay character. Why would I want to live in California and pay sky-high taxes and living costs to an anti-gay government when I can live in Massachusetts, which has lower taxes and also regards me as equal?
At a certain point, LGBT Americans should just start voting with our feet — politically and economically. A large portion of the heterosexist majority in the USA is self-centered and lazy, more than happy to tax your hard work at higher levels to benefit their lazy butts and tell you to “shut up and get over it.” We should take them up on it… when there are no more LGBT businesspeople, creative people, employees or families left to tax to subsidize heterosupremacy, the heterosexists will have to reconsider their position out of a sense of survival alone.
The future of heterosexism is the present fiscally collapsed state of basket cases like Michigan, California and Texas — all profoundly anti-gay and all in deep doo doo.
DanW
“The future of heterosexism is the present fiscally collapsed state of basket cases like Michigan, California and Texas — all profoundly anti-gay and all in deep doo doo.”
Brian, thank you for the comedy. Last I read, all 50 states, including the queer-friendly ones, were having financial troubles, due to the economic collapse. Heterosexism? Don’t think so. More like bad choices, made by a very large number of people, queers included.
Seriously, the queer community has a choice to make. Does it want to maintain a distinct identity, or does it want to totally assimilate? To many in our community, “marriage,” ENDA, et al are signs that queers want more to be like heterosexuals than queer.
I agree we must have the same basic rights as any other American citizen. But is same-sex marriage one of those rights? Not necessarily. Polygamy is not a right either. Or, is hate crime legislation a right. Not really. I subscribe to the quaint concept that existing laws should be enforced. Usually that would take care of most problems. The fascination with passing more laws that may or may not be enforced is disturbing and achieves very little.
Cam
No. 62 · DanW said…
I agree we must have the same basic rights as any other American citizen. But is same-sex marriage one of those rights? Not necessarily. Polygamy is not a right either. Or, is hate crime legislation a right. Not really. I subscribe to the quaint concept that existing laws should be enforced.
____________________________
Ahhh, the burned out sour grapes argument of the Larry Kramer time frame. “Well you won’t give us rights…so f-you! We don’t want your damn rights anyway!”……
Dan, whether people want to get married, join the military, etc… is irrelevent. If your mother doesn’t want to be bothered to vote, does that mean that women shouldn’t have the right to vote? If your son is white and wants to marry a white girl does that mean that different races shouldn’t marry? Again, whatever you feel like doing with your life is irrelevent to the fact that there are two federal laws on the books that list gays as inferior. If you want to call equality assimilation that is fine, but please don’t try to pretend that it is somehow damaging to be seen as equals in the eyes of the law.
Brian Miller
Hi Dan, thanks for the separatist perspective.
However, CA’s situation is far more dire than “other states.” It ran out of cash in its first fiscal quarter and had to issue IOU’s.
Heterosexism isn’t the *only* driver of California’s problems, but it’s a serious contributor. The creative class built California, and declaring war on i t through regressive laws has had a major negative effect.
That’s why the creative class is leaving CA in droves for other states. And lots of those folks leaving are fed up queer folk. I know quite a few of them, and I myself am one of them.
alan brickman
If the march had been organized properly, they could have had 1,000,000 marchers…2,000,000 gays and supporters live within a two hour drive of this event…Barney Frank is right, this is the crazy fringe doing this…and what happened to Barney Frank’s rights to Freedom of Speech? Would still vote for him because he is not as crazy as you are ….
DanW
Brian–glad to hear you decided to run instead of sticking around and helping to change things. Hope the door didn’t hit you on the way out, dude.
Alan–precisely. Barney Frank has every right to say what he did, expecially as someone experienced in the ways of the Beltway.
Robin is from my part of the world. She became very involved in the Prop 8 fight and paid a price when her son was booted out of Catholic private school and she was removed from the school’s Parent-Teacher Organization because of her appearances on local TV. That led to her organizing MM4E and the NEM, along with Cleve and the Courage Campaign. There are very mixed emotions about Robin in our community. Many see her as an agent for change (she serves on our mayor’s Community Advisory board); others see her as an opportunist–one blogger on Queerty referred to her as “the gay Mayor of Fresno–gag” after MM4E.
Her attack on Rep. Frank was uncalled for. This is another example of the incivility that’s infected American politics these days. Was NEM the queer version of the Teabaggers and those folks showing up with guns and rage at the health reform twon halls? I hope not.
Cam
No. 65 · alan brickman said….
Barney Frank is right, this is the crazy fringe doing this…and what happened to Barney Frank’s rights to Freedom of Speech?
__________________________________-
Do you not understand the first amendment? Freedom of speech means that the govt. can’t stop him from saying what he thinks. However freedom of speech doesn’t mean that nobody gets to disagree with what he says. So great, he said his piece and we get to disagree with him now.
Barney didn’t give a reasoned calm statement, he was angry and acted pissy. If HE wasn’t going to call the shots then he was going to take his toys and go home. He is much more interested in getting a position in the Obama administration then he is in gay rights. He is only treated as “The Gay Rights Congressman” because he is gay, not because he has ever done anything for our rights.
schlukitz
@ No. 61 Brian Miller:
The future of heterosexism is the present fiscally collapsed state of basket cases like Michigan, California and Texas — all profoundly anti-gay and all in deep doo doo.
A most interesting point and correlation that you make. Definitely food for thought.
Brian Miller
Sorry Dan, but I decided my family’s well being is more important than begging bigots for dignity while I pay them huge amounts of my family’s income in taxes… YMMV.
schlukitz
@ No. 62 DanW:
But is same-sex marriage one of those rights? Not necessarily.
Flawed thinking. I wish people would get over saying same-sex marriage, when what we are really talking about here, is civil-rights. No more or no leas than the rights that heteros have. Not a hard concept to understand, if you really put your mind to it.
Polygamy is not a right either.
Red herring! Polygamy, IS asking for more than the rest of the citizeny enjoys, including LGBT people. That is not equality either, and likening it to our demand for full equality is a fail.
Or, is hate crime legislation a right. Not really.
Wrong. This is why we have murder in the first degree, second degree, etc. It helps to determine the extent to which the perpetrator of the crime should be punished. Read up on your law.
I subscribe to the quaint concept that existing laws should be enforced. Usually that would take care of most problems.
Ah, but there is the problem. Six months in jail and a year or two of probation for killing an LGBT person, under existing laws, is a miscarriage of justice. Try killing a cop and see how the law book gets thrown at you.
That’s the problem. Existing law is NOT taking care of the problem, but, given your comments, you probably feel that even six months in jail for a LGBT murder, is a too extreme a punishment for the murderer.
Been hatin’ on gays long?
schlukitz
@ No. 62 DanW:
But is same-sex marriage one of those rights? Not necessarily.
Flawed thinking. I wish people would get over saying same-sex marriage, when what we are really talking about here, is civil-rights. No more or no leas than the rights that heteros have. Not a hard concept to understand, if you really put your mind to it.
Polygamy is not a right either.
Red herring! Polygamy, IS asking for more than the rest of the citizeny enjoys, including LGBT people. That is not equality either, and likening it to our demand for full equality is a fail.
Or, is hate crime legislation a right. Not really.
Wrong. This is why we have murder in the first degree, second degree, etc. It helps to determine the extent to which the perpetrator of the crime should be punished. Read up on your law.
I subscribe to the quaint concept that existing laws should be enforced. Usually that would take care of most problems.
Ah, but there is the problem. Six months in jail and a year or two of probation for killing an LGBT person, under existing laws, is a miscarriage of justice. Try killing a cop and see how the law book gets thrown at you.
That’s the problem. Existing law is NOT taking care of the problem, but, given your comments, you probably feel that even six months in jail for a LGBT murder, is a bit too extreme a punishment for the murderer.
Been hatin’ on gays long?
schlukitz
No. 67 Cam:
Co-sign!
Robert, NYC
DanW, if you believe that marriage is not necessarily a right, what if for the sake of argument marriage were banned altogether? Do you really think straights would sit back and do nothing, not consider it their right? If its not, then why does the federal government get involved by conferring more than 1,000 rights only to straight married couples and why do states give people that “right” to marry when it issues a marriage license? If its not a right, why issue marriage licenses in the first place? Without it, the state won’t provide you with almost 400 rights. The fact that most of the rights enjoyed by straight married couples are a result of marrying and having them conferred by the federal government is proof positive that government does get involved in marriage, therefore it IS a right.
By the way, polygamy is legal in the islamic world, a right, something that can be blamed on gays marrying in other parts of the world. I don’t hear a peep out of the right wing so called “christian” cultists when they use every conceivable absurdity to deny us marriage equality, the polygamy red herring being one of them.
DanW
Guess what, as you yourself say, #71 murder is murder. By the way, I was in law enforcement, so I know criminal law, probably better than you do.
Do hate crime laws make any difference? Probably not. California has hate crime laws on the books, but do all the district attorneys file hate crime charges in all appropriate cases? Definitely not.
Why? Either a personal opinion that the laws don’t work, or (more often) convincing juries to convict. We had a case here several years ago where a tranny was fatally stabbed by a guy she brought home to have sex with. The case was filed as murder. Our DA would not file it with hate crime enhancements because of the difficulty of PROVING the required elements. The case was settled with a four-year manslaughter plea when the defense announced it was going to use a “panic” defense and the DA realized it would be difficult to get a jury to convict the perp of murder of any degree.
On the other hand, about a year, a perp who tried to use a “panic” defense was convicted of murder/robbery and is now doing life. A hate crimes statute was never in play in this case, and probably would’ve made it difficult to get a conviction–it would’ve muddied the waters.
You’re unhappy about the fact someone got 6 months jail and a few years probation for a killing? That result has everything to do with the system, and passing more laws WILL NOT change that. The bottom line is: as long as we use the jury system and give prosecutors discretion–which is what makes the criminal justice system go around–hate crime laws are not effective as a deterrant. Instead of passing more laws, a more effective strategy is to publicly pressure the system to deal with these crimes in an appropriate manner. Act locally!!!
Landon Bryce
No one has yet been able to point out anything that Barney Frank has accomplished for gay people.
He has had no shortage of defenders here, but not one has managed to come up with an instance of Barney actually coming through.
If you haven’t called up Barney’s office yet to complain about his comments on the march, here’s his number: 202-225-5931
DanW
Robert, one of the issues that may derail the federal court case being heard in San Francisco is precisely that: same-sex marriage has been determined in a 1972 US Supreme Court case not to be a right.
Ted Olsen and David Boies have a stronger argument that Prop 8 was motivated by discrimination towards queer people, something the courts have already said violates the “liberty clause.”
In any case, the trial judge has made it clear, he wants to develop a complete record for appellate review. So, summary judgement (which will be heard next week) is unlikely, but always possible.
Strict constructionists will say marriage is not a right because it is not addressed in the constitution. An argument could be made that marriage should be left to contract law and that benefits should be provided to everyone REGARDLESS of marital status. That’s an argument I’d agree with.
DanW
Brian–hope you don’t find out Mass is just the same as you feel CA is. Some of the most virulent anti-gay groups in the country were created and operate in the Commonwealth (mostly because of marriage).
Brian Miller
Oh there are antigay groups everywhere, Dan.
The difference?
In MA, the citizens rejected homophobic bigotry.
California, on the other hand, proudly embraced it. And life is too short to have to beg bigots for your rights back.
Robert, NYC
So DanW, if the Supreme Court determined that marriage is not a right simply because its not mentioned in the constitution, then why should the federal and state governments be in the business of marriage in the first place? Why should both be providing privileges and benefits that can only came through government involvement? Further, returning to my previous statement, what if the government were removed from marriage altogether? How do you think straights would view that and what would they call marriage, an entitlement? What if all of the federal and state benefits and privileges were also removed? A number of state constitutions now have DOMA on the books in which it defines marriage between a man and a woman thereby saying indirectly that it is a right reserved for straights only. Just because the Supreme Court doesn’t address marriage doesn’t necessarily mean that marriage isn’t a right either. The fact that the constitution doesn’t mention marriage is reason enough to not prevent same-sex couples from marrying since there is no federal ban in place.
DanW
Brian, are you really that secure? Doesn’t the Commonwealth have an initiative process similiar to California’s? If so, you’re only secure only as long as no one gathers enough signatures and convinces enough people to vote “yes.” Then it’s up to the courts to decide whether the “will of the people” trumps a “fundamental right”–to use the CA Supreme Court’s words.
Old Timer
In MA, the citizens rejected homophobic bigotry. California, on the other hand, proudly embraced it.
Oh, the high drama! Look at some facts. I know how much that kills you, but try it sometime. In 2000, CA voters approved Prop. 22, outlawing same-sex marriage. The vote was 62% in favor, 38% against, a 24% margin. In 2008, CA voters approved Prop. 8, outlawing gay marriage. The vote was 52% in favor, 48% against, a 4% margin.
Yes, it was a real disappointment. However, the margin of defeat for our side fell from 24% to 4% in less than a decade. None of you sky-is-falling drama queens ever pauses to take note of the progress. I swear you people get off on the tragedy of it all, and won’t know what to do when you finally get “Yes” for an answer.
Brian Miller
You may not mind waiting another 20 years, but most of us are busy living life and are focused on the facts on the ground at the moment.
“Celebrating the trend” is mental masturbation for academic sorts who “take the long view.”
But in the long run, we’re all dead too.
Those with responsibilities beyond themselves and their next trick don’t care that our families are being harmed by “only 55%” instead of “a huge 65%.”
DanW
Old Timer–I wholeheartedly agree with your comment (#81). These young queens love drama and don’t mind the destruction that comes with it. Our community is being destroyed by all this. For the long term, I regret the day the CA high court legalized marriage–it has led to incredible nastiness inside the queer community. We would have been so better off expanding our domestic partner law to include all the rights of marriage the state controlled.
While these youngsters fuss and fume about marriage, people with HIV/AIDS are being screwed. CA eliminated 85% of the funding for prevention, education and care a few months ago. The county I live in (which lost 85% of its funding) will become a dumping ground for the neighboring county that decided to eliminate ALL their HIV/AIDS services–they’re telling their clients to specifically go elsewhere. And, don’t forget, the Ryan White Act may go away altogether at the end of October–then there’ll be NO services for anyone with HIV/AIDS anywhere in the U.S.
The youngsters confuse “rights” with things not written into either the U.S. or state constitutions. If it ain’t written in either place, it ain’t a right. It’s something that can be taken away at any time at the whim of politicians or voters. I hope Brian doesn’t get a rude awakening–eternal vigilance is the price of freedom.
Brian Miller
Three points, Dan:
1) You seem unfamiliar with the 14th amendment in your deliberations.
2) Why is HIV, an issue primarily of worry to promiscuous men, “more important” than marriage, family, breast cancer, etc.
3) What’s up with the age rhetoric? You don’t know the ages of most of the people here.
3.5) Why are you so resentful towards LGBT people who have oriented themselves towards family life rather than random hookups?
DanW
Brian–I think you’re the one who’s badly confused. To answer your three points….
(1) So far the courts have said the 14th Amendment does not apply to the question of same-sex marriage. In fact the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in a Minnesota case in the 1970s that the 14th (or any amendment) did not apply. That is the key issue in a motion hearing for summary judgment next week in San Francisco
(2) I will be glad to share your view that people with HIV/AIDS don’t matter with my friends and our local community. I doubt that they will be amused by your silliness. I happen to think that the publicity about breast cancer has been overblown. My husband (who is a throat cancer survivor) wholeheartedly agrees with that assessment. Men with cancer are ignored.
(3) I was responding to Old Timer. It seems the majority of those involved in NEM were under 30, an age group that tends to be wet behind the ears still.
(3.5) I think you’re having delusions.
End of discussion.
JJ
Wow, I have to say I am impressed by how many people seem to know a lot more about how to get things done in Washington than a 28 year senator and chairman of the senate banking committee! Maybe some of you should either run for the senate or form your own organizations since you seem to know so much.
The reality here is that a lot of people on this thread don’t want to hear the truth. Our civil rights have been pushed into popular votes, like it or not. That in itself is a failure on our part. Barney’s point is that if we want anything done legislatively it takes lobbyists. Barney is a realist and too many people want to “fight the battle” in the turf of their choosing rather than where some progress might get made.
Why do you think the healthcare industry has spent $400m lobbying to push an agenda that protects their business interests while increasing their market? In today’s environment, you have to fund lobbyists if you want legislative support. I can promise you the opposition knows this – why do you think the religious right had such a tight grip on the Bush presidency?
The HRC is a weak lobby force. Obama spoke at the dinner to try and placate the gay community because we are making noise that he is moving too slowly. That activity works – he needs us to get elected (of course but then, who else can we support?).
If people even knew about the march, they have already forgotten about it. The five hundred thousand that marched in 1987 made a difference. Thirty thousand isn’t going to accomplish anything.
And finally, what do you know about what Barney has had to deal with? He is 68 years old and has likely seen more hate than many people reading this blog. He has had peers openly call him “Barney fag” and I’m sure there have been more hateful things done and said to him that we’ll never hear about.
It is time to get something done and give up the theatrics. Sheesh.
Landon Bryce
JJ:
It speaks volumes that in your passionate defense of Barney Frank you are unable to point to one thing he has accomplished for gay people. He’s been in Congress for nearly thirty years and has done nothing for us. He did not fight DADT. He did not fight DOMA. He is not on our side.
And Barney Frank set things back for us by being irresponsible. If you think there would not have been many more openly gay Congressman by now had the first one not embroiled himself in a prostitution scandal, I disagree.
Again, there is concrete proof that the march has had impact– look at the news. Legislation has been pushed along. We got a historic speech from the president. That speech should be used for ads to protect marriage in Maine, by the way.
Joe Solmonese has taken another hit to his ability to effectively lead the HRC as a result of his email blast about not holding Obama accountable until 2017. That’s a good thing– the faster we get Solmonese out and someone who is something other than a white gay man in charge of the HRC, the better.
People have been been encouraged to lobby their legislators– I called one of my senators again today, and hope everyone who is complaining about how stupid a march is and how right Barney Frank is will follow his advice. If they do, that will also be a positive impact of the march.
JJ
No. 87 · Landon Bryce
The point of my post has nothing to do with whether Barney has done anything for the community. I am defending his position and comments as bluntly accurate (which is how he speaks about everything).
The truth is there are very few people in any branch of the federal government that are doing anything substantial for the gay community. Everyone in Washington is afraid to take a potentially unpopular position. It takes money and professional lobbyists trolling the halls of the houses to make a differnce.
And you are wrong about the march …the items you cite have nothing to do with the march. If the march makes you feel good, great, but we need to play by Washington’s rules, not our own.
schlukitz
Another Obama/Frank/Democrat apologist injects himself into the Queerty threads.
He grandly tells us how wrong everyone else’s efforts are, and then tells us that his method is the only way to go.
Our civil rights have been pushed into popular votes, like it or not
And that’s precisely what we ought to be fighting and not accepting with of an attitude of “that’s the way it is”.
We gays should not have to fight this battle on their turf and by their rules.
That’s a sure lose proposition for the LGBT community.
Landon Bryce
JJ:
So you do admit that Barney Frank has done nothing for gay people. Got it. Even his defenders can come up with not one single thing. He should be embarrassed, and so should you.
I am tempted to let your obvious lie about the march go this time, but it is too dangerous. Without the march, we would not have seen the president’s speech at the HRC dinner or the movement on DADT that has happened in the last few weeks.
I know many of you wanted the march to have been a complete failure, but that does not mean you get to just ignore reality.
Bill Perdue
Barney Frank is useless because he’s a Democrat.
• He’s a Democrat who thinks that change comes from the good intentions of a collection of seedy hustlers who’ll sell their mother to the highest bidder, aka Democrat/Republican politicians, Obama and McCain, Bush and the Clintons, and the Congress.
• He’s a Democrat who thinks that Congress can be reformed.
• He’s a Democrat who opposed the SF same sex marriage initiative of Mayor Gavin Newsome.
• He’s a leading member of Congress who helped Bush and Obama create a multi-trillion dollar welfare fund (TARP) for the uber rich and whose party supports austerity measures for working people.
• He led the attack on ENDA and accepted every amendment that bigoted business owners, crackpot cultists, anti-GLBT Democrats and Republicans offered. The upshot is that it’s very likely that new the version of ENDA will be very inadequate, even if it has provisions for inclusion of transgendered people.
• He opposed strict regulation of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac while he had a relationship with the director of those corporations. Barney claimed that there were no big problems with FM/FM in mid decade and now both are in conservatorship, a form of bankruptcy. To date the feds have given the two companies over $85 billion and that may climb to $200 billion by the end of the year as the second huge wave of foreclosures hits.
He’s a Democrat and as we all know all Democrat politicians are just Republicans in drag.