Senator Joe Biden and Governor Sarah Palin faced off in their first – and only – debate last night in St. Louis. And, considering it’s the politicians’ only debate, it’s pretty impressive that moderator Gwen Ifill injected gay rights into the discussion, asking, whether or not the candidates support granting benefits to same-sex couples.
Biden, a Democrat from Delaware, took the legislative route, saying he “absolutely” believes gay couples believe the same “constitutional” benefits awarded their straight counterparts…
…In an Obama-Biden administration, there will be absolutely no distinction from a constitutional standpoint or a legal standpoint between a same-sex and a heterosexual couple.
The fact of the matter is that under the Constitution we should be granted — same-sex couples should be able to have visitation rights in the hospitals, joint ownership of property, life insurance policies, et cetera. That’s only fair.
It’s what the Constitution calls for. And so we do support it. We do support making sure that committed couples in a same-sex marriage are guaranteed the same constitutional benefits as it relates to their property rights, their rights of visitation, their rights to insurance, their rights of ownership as heterosexual couples do.
Palin took a more roundabout approach, starting with a little self-defense of her “tolerance,” and saying she was going to be “straight up” about her thoughts on marriage: it’s meant to be between one man and one woman. Only then did she say that she and her running mate, John McCain, will do nothing to prohibit same-sex couples from having many of the same “straight” rights, before ending again with her assertion that she won’t touch marriage: “I’m being as straight up with Americans as I can in my non- support for anything but a traditional definition of marriage.” Here’s Palin’s exchange with Ifill:
IFILL: Governor, would you support expanding that beyond Alaska to the rest of the nation?
PALIN: Well, not if it goes closer and closer towards redefining the traditional definition of marriage between one man and one woman. And unfortunately that’s sometimes where those steps lead.
But I also want to clarify, if there’s any kind of suggestion at all from my answer that I would be anything but tolerant of adults in America choosing their partners, choosing relationships that they deem best for themselves, you know, I am tolerant and I have a very diverse family and group of friends and even within that group you would see some who may not agree with me on this issue, some very dear friends who don’t agree with me on this issue.
But in that tolerance also, no one would ever propose, not in a McCain-Palin administration, to do anything to prohibit, say, visitations in a hospital or contracts being signed, negotiated between parties.
But I will tell Americans straight up that I don’t support defining marriage as anything but between one man and one woman, and I think through nuances we can go round and round about what that actually means. But I’m being as straight up with Americans as I can in my non- support for anything but a traditional definition of marriage.
Not content with their answers, Ifill got more specific, asking, “Do you support gay marriage?” Neither candidate does, of course, nor do their running mates, and Biden did a good job “catching” that similarity between himself and Palin. Palin, however, attempted to distance herself from such an equation:
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
IFILL: Let’s try to avoid nuance, Senator. Do you support gay marriage?
BIDEN: No. Barack Obama nor I support redefining from a civil side what constitutes marriage. We do not support that. That is basically the decision to be able to be able to be left to faiths and people who practice their faiths the determination what you call it.
The bottom line though is, and I’m glad to hear the governor, I take her at her word, obviously, that she think there should be no civil rights distinction, none whatsoever, between a committed gay couple and a committed heterosexual couple. If that’s the case, we really don’t have a difference.
IFILL: Is that what your said?
PALIN: Your question to him was whether he supported gay marriage and my answer is the same as his and it is that I do not.
IFILL: Wonderful. You agree.
Essentially, neither campaign differs on where gays stand in the American landscape: away from the straight “mainstream.”
Politically speaking, however, Biden and Palin’s respective responses indicate a severe split between the parties. While the Democrats think in terms of concrete rights, the Republicans and their social conservative pals think of nothing but “traditional” definition. Palin’s performance proves that she’s sorely incapable of thinking outside the box, a trait exhibited by many of her party peers and, sadly, such a stance will bring nothing good for gay rights. Or, really, any Americans.
Here’s the video…
JJJJ
Both the Dems and the Repubs suck equally on gay rights this time around, so I’ll be voting for whichever side I agree with on other issues.
JJJJ
But at least, as has been pointed out, we do know that McCain will hire an openly gay man (Buse) so that’s some points for his side.
DB
Get a life. Sorry no rights for the Gay boys.
Alexa
The big difference appears to be that Obama/Biden want us to have equal rights even if the name is different, McCain/Palin will “tolerate” us.
anokie
The use of the word “tolerate” gays only solidifies that she has a problem with the LGBT community. That underneath her tolerance is a lack of respect for the LGBT community to exist. Beware of a wolf(pitbull) in sheeps clothing. I’ll be voting Obama/Biden.
Key
They’ll “tolerate” you till election day. I doubt there will be a lot of tolerance once they no longer need the votes.
akaison
No differences? One ticket is for civil unions, and one is for “tolerance.” The difference is the former attempts to legally give you the legal rights of marriage while the later pets you on the head and say “I care.” The former ticket, by the way, unlike the later is also for protection against gays discriminated against in the workplace and for ending DADT. But, yeah- right- no differences at all. If you can’t see the legal element as the only relevant aspect of a political debate (since that’s what politicians do- pass laws) then you really are thinking of this as a cultural debate rather than a legal one. Politicians aren’t there to change people’s hearts. Just what laws impacts us.
Tommy
There is a difference – Biden talked about ensuring benefits and hospital visitation (but would not go as far as recognizing any relationships as marriages). Palin said she would “not oppose” hospital visitation – but did not seem to get it that what is needed are laws that require it. We don’t need government to get out of the way, we need it to get in the game!
Woof
I can’t believe how much positive press that whore is getting. I thought she sounded uneducated, unprepared, unprofessional and clealy inexperienced. Did anyone else hear her call him O’Biden more than once? Please tell me what I missed, cause I am just not getting it.
marco channing
Tolerate is what you politely you with the bratty behavior of an undisciplined kid at a children’s birthday party.
My mere existence is not something that has to be tolerated. My request for the same rights as every other taxpayer is not something that has to be tolerated.
I am shocked that rape-baby lovin’, animal killin’, creationism supportin’, Dick Cheney admirin’ Palin thinks she is the bigger person for tolerating gays.
An Other Greek
tolerant?
How CONDESCENDING was that?
I am NOT tolerant of her aggressive and power-hungry stupid demagoguery…
she needs to go back to Alaska and deal with her legal troubles…
——————————————
ChristopherM
JJJJ, if you think they are equal on their positions, you are either not paying attention or are willfully ignorant. As for McCain hiring a gay, certainly that’s nice of him to hire himself a house gay who will be fine to live in the big house with massa as long as he keeps his mouth shut and doesn’t ask for his rights.
M&M
Both of them are worst than each other.
What did Biden all those years when he was in senate for gays. Even he voted for Clinton’s “marriage is between man & woman” shit. I find this very laughable! They are both the same mess McCain & Biden. They would do & say anything to get more vote. No equal rights for gays for long time. So sad!!!!!
Afroguapo
Cogent point ChristopherM, reminds me of Sandra Bernhard calling Palin “Uncle Woman” as she is no ally to women or advocate for feminism/women’s rights. Just as those “Roy Cohn” gays are no ally or friend to the LGBT community.
JJJJ
ChristopherM : Any gay who goes ahead and votes for the homophobic Dems (even the person, Leah Daughtry, running the DNC was a notorious homophobe) is a “house negro”. And Obama running around with “ex-gays”. The Dems might, slightly, slightly, overall seem better for gay rights, but..it’s not enough where I’m not going to have my deciding factor be the economy and a slew of other issues.
mark
McCain hasn’t commited a queer Hate crime, like many of his Repig colleagues, he just drove the get away car.
These folks use G*D DAMN closet cases like Mehlman to put anti-gay innitiatives on 13 battle ground states to re-elect F*CTARDS Cheney/Bush.
The WORST most repressive 8 years for LGBTs.
SK
I’m a huge Joe Biden supporter, and I have met him and talked with him a few times. He’s the most genuine politician I have ever met in my life and he is a personal hero of mine.
As for the gay marriage issue, I was a little terrified when Gwen asked the question. I feel pretty confident from my experiences with him that Joe Biden DOES in fact support gay marriage, but from a political standpoint he can’t come right out and say it, especially in a debate (same with Obama). Joe is also one of the most honest politicians out there, so I could really tell that he had to grit his teeth when he said he did not support gay marriage.
As a political observer, I was worried that Joe would trip up and speak his true feelings on his support for equal marriage rights. Good for us, yes, but from a political standpoint, not great for the Obama-Biden ticket.
All that being said, I wanted to assure the Queerty readers and the gay community that Joe Biden is a strong, strong ally. I hope that none of y’all take his debate answer too seriously.
RS
JJJJ: I do agree with your end conclusion, that is, that I will be voting based on many issues other than gay ones. Which in my case still means I overwhelmingly support Obama.
But I respectfully disagree with your impression that Obama and McCain are “identical” on gay issues. Obama supports the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, including the trans-inclusive version. McCain opposes, with or without trans. Obama supports a full repeal of Don’t Act, Don’t Tell. McCain wants to keep it. Obama supports a full repeal of the Defense of Marriage Act. McCain wants to keep it. Obama supports the Matthew Shepard Hate Crimes Act. McCain voted against it three times. Obama supports the Uniting American Families Act, which would allow an American citizen to petition for immigration sponsorship for a same-sex partner. McCain opposes it. Although both Obama and McCain opposed a federal constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, McCain has said he would reconsider if federal courts ever ruled against the Defense of Marriage Act or required any state to recognize another state’s gay marriages. And although Obama, like McCain, says he prefers Civil Unions rather than Same-Sex Marriage, he came out in opposition to California’s Prop 8, which if it’s defeated means Same Sex Marriage remains legal in California. McCain came out in support of Prop 8.
So when folks say that Obama and McCain are identical on gay issues, I am very confused.
An Other Greek
So when folks say that Obama and McCain are identical on gay issues, I am very confused
RS
–me too!!!!
to me it’e either one of two things:
1-NIHILISM of the deepest cynical strain with a dose of relativism just to forgive non-participation and civic paralysis so as to keep it in the sphere of “complain”as opposed to action…
2-TROLLISM: Freeper propaganda designed to obfuscate, depress, and ultimately disenfranchise civic involvement…
– – – – – – – — – – – – – – — – – – – – – — – – – – –
Alexa
There’s no point in arguing with the self-loathing racists who spew their bigoted venom here. They’re beyond help, preferring a homophobe who will “tolerate” us in the Whitehouse to a black man.
An Other Greek
No. 15 · JJJJ
ChristopherM : Any gay who goes ahead and votes for the homophobic Dems (even the person, Leah Daughtry, running the DNC was a notorious homophobe) is a “house negro”. And Obama running around with “ex-gays”. The Dems might, slightly, slightly, overall seem better for gay rights, but..it’s not enough where I’m not going to have my deciding factor be the economy and a slew of other issues.
===
ouch!
So, “SLIGHTLY SLIGHTLY” is not enough so you will not vote Dem because of the:
ECONOMY ???
You think repiglicans are better?
Are you INSANE?
And I suppose you do not CARE or WORRY much about a
WAR BASED ON L-I-E-S?
And 600,000 dead Iraqis,
or 100,000 disabled VETS?
and I suppose you don’t care about the ENVIRONMENT?
not even SLIGHTLY SLIGHTLY?
or ENERGY independence?
or freakin Halliburton, and Exxon, and Wall Streat, and corrupt Attorney Generals, and TORTURE, and ethics, and our international standing, and, and, and…
– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
fredo777
I was saddened when I heard that answer about not supporting gay marriage, but I knew that had he answered otherwise, they could have pretty much kissed the election goodbye.
Despite that (+ the slew of rabid Obama-haters that will surely post here later) I’m still voting Obama/Biden, especially considering the alternative. I don’t wish to vote for someone who’ll “tolerate” me like a bad smell. Aside from that, the notion of Sarah “Golly Gosh” Palin being a heartbeat away from running this nation gives me a rash.
Not voting Obama/Biden because they support civil unions with equal rights but voting for McCain (who doesn’t support legalized same-sex relationships at all) would be like dying of thirst because someone offered you a two-thirds-full glass of water + you were holding out for a full one.
Trenton
I think Biden nailed it. Let’s look at this again:
“Barack Obama nor I support redefining from a civil side what constitutes marriage. We do not support that. That is basically the decision to be able to be able to be left to faiths and people who practice their faiths the determination what you call it.”
Preach it! The factis, the government has no right in saying what is and isn’t a marriage: gay or straight. Marriage is a public commitment made within the context of community (and religious faith, if either or both sides of the couple have one), not a government institution. So the government’s only role here should be issues surroundinginsurance, visitation, adoption, etc. The couple and those whom they hold close should when be able to call their relationship whatever they want, be it a ‘marriage’, ‘matrimony’, ‘union’, or ‘hive mind’. Whatever. And if other denominations want to say “That isn’t a real marriage”…then let them. It’s no skin off our nose as long as we have the exact same civil rights.
An Other Greek
“That isn’t a real marriage”…then let them. It’s no skin off our nose as long as we have the exact same civil rights.
—
EXACTLY!
the repiglican tactic is to CONFUSE civil rights with church doctrine, a diversion that gays are NOT fighting for. Who cares what superstitious organizations do? Not me.
I just care about my GOVERNMENT and my RIGHTS.
Biden’s position is CORRECT, and patriotic in it’s respect for our constitution.
– – — – – — – – — – – – – — – – — – – — – – —
ChristopherM
JJJJ, RS said it far better than I could. Reread his reply and ask yourself exactly what “slightly” means in your dictionary.
seitan-on-a-stick
The “Gay Marriage or Death” Gays can still vote for the Green Party in no-swing states who completely support Gay Marriage 100% so they can have their Vote recorded and heard. Having said that, there was a clear winner in this debate and that was Barack Obama. Sarah Palin did admirably well given her 5 weeks self-acknowledged learning curb but Joe Biden reminded Americans why it was important to come back to the Democratic Party as An Other Greek touched on. John McCain was appropriately attached at the hip to George W Bush despite Palin’s feeble attempts to dismiss it as “politics of the past.” John McCain was the big loser last night, not Sarah Palin who is looking sweet for 2012, Joe Biden who delivered a better than expected performance or Barack Obama who was largely absent from the fracas of mud-slinging.
Now, this election is Barack’s to lose and very unlikely that McCain will gain any traction with only a month to go. McCain has given up on Michigan and the real battleground is once again Florida (with dirty-tricks closeted Governor Charlie Crist) as Virginia is moving into the Dem column. The Republican bloggers have got nothing much more than a bicycle pump to rescue their failed campaign as evidenced by the exodus here and the few remaining right-wing crazies. We never get the candidate we want on Gay Rights, but for those who take the “Gay Marriage or be damned with America” road, clearly the difference between the two major parties is akin to either eating shit or nearly stepping in shit.
This movie link might remind you how bad the George W Bush administration is, even if you’ve been living under a rock for 8 years:
W, The Movie, October 17
http://www.wthefilm.com
mark
Palin = Cheney in Lipstick
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-8/1210139/cheneySmilepalin.jpg
you betcha!
trent-
dear god, thank you. everyone forgets that they have virtually the SAME position on gay issues… niether candidate is really on our side. the “tolerate” bit really pissed me off though.
fredo777
They most certainly do not have “virtually the same position” on gay issues.
RS
Trent, you are absolutely a thousand percent wrong. On ENDA, DOMA, Don’t Ask Don’t Tell, hate crimes legislation, UAFA, and California’s Prop 8, their positions are opposite. In every one of these examples, Obama sides for gay rights and McCain does not. So why, pray tell, do you think their positions are identical?
john
I’m sick and tired of having the religious and “faithful” able to VOTE for how I live my life, how did my life become open for them to control? to vote on? to allow me to marry the person that I want to? why do these people need to have control over us and tell us how sick and perverted and “against the family” we are? No gay person is allowed to vote on whether 2 dumbshit straight people can get married, but those dumbshits get to decide MY life for me? FUCK RELIGION!
Charles Merrill
Neither one addresses the issue of gay marriage rights on a Federal level. That hospital visitation shit is left over from the last election and Kerry, like we are all in the hospital dying of AIDS. The Federal tax rights are the big ones. Social security benefits, no estate taxes, same fucking rights that straights get. over 1130 of them.
michael
reading between the lines what I take from this is that Paulin and McCain will do nothing to help make sure GLBT’s get rights, if it happens, they will tolerate it, but as Paulin said, these things lead to other things and that where the cunt is dangerous, she is liar by not coming out and just saying that I don’t believe fags and lesbians should have any rights, cause I will guarantee you thats what the piece of white trash is thinking “Not in my trailer park” So do not expect she nor the adulterous old Bastard to sign any legislation that will see we move forward. Joe Biden did say something interesting in that he thought a persons faith should decide what its called, and as long as that goes for straights as well, then thats cool with me. If my faith, religious or secular says I am married, then I am married and the same goes for the “straights”. Fuck her and the whore’s ass she came out of, of course with someone elses dick.
mark
Charles Merril,
AIDS was never mentioned concerning hospital visitation, and maybe it should have been. As a PWA, and survivor of a lover, and currently with another PWA…this issue hasn’t gone away, just no one talks about it, as one or two people just fade away unacknowledged day after day after day. In case for some bizzare happen stance no one in your sphere of contacts has ever needed hospitalization, every other f*ckin human we have had a family member or friend or love one in a HOSPITAL. No one get’s out of this life alive, and for the vast majority that will include being in a hospital or nursing home or hospice.
Debbie
Neither candidate supports gay marriage, Do they support the right of blacks? I cannot believe that I just watched this video again. I read an Obama Interview at the Washington Blade site and in that interview I read that Obama was going to support same sex marriage. What is up?
fredo777
To be honest, Debbie, I wish I had it handy but I recall Obama making a statement in one of his ads, speeches, or letters addressing the LGBT community in which he damn near stated that he was in favor of gay marriage. It was extremely suggestive of that, as I recall. I won’t promise anything, though. As I said, I don’t have the exact instance handy to quote (but I’ll look for it).
Russy
Personally I find the dems position more distasteful as we know that many of the ‘civl rights’ that Biden supports, he knows full well will eventually be obtained through court challenges with very little legislative effort on their part. Not that Palin understood but certainly the people that prepared her did, hence the ‘we will tolerate it’, because one day that is exactly what they will have to do. So what is worse, a government that supports civil rights but doesn’t lift a finger to bring it about, or one that doesn’t support civil rights and won’t lift a finger to bring it about??
The fact of the matter is, in America civil rights are won in the judicial arena so dems or repugs, neither is going to legislate gay marriage in any way shape or form.
mike
Democrats are not welcoming to gays, and if you believe that to be true, you are naive. They b.s. and mince words to get the gay vote.
Senator Biden adds his name to a long list of leading national Democrats who oppose gay marriage:
• As Senator Biden indicated during the debate, Senator Barack Obama opposes same sex marriage and says that marriage should be between a man and woman. (Los Angeles Times, September 26, 2008)
“I personally believe that marriage is between a man and a woman…”
Barack Obama Senate Press Release, June 7, 2006
• Former President Bill Clinton has long opposed same-sex marriage. He signed the Federal Defense of Marriage Act in 1996, which made the definition of marriage in federal law as between one man and one woman. (CNN “Inside Politics”, May 23, 1996; The Hotline, May 14, 1996; Newsday May 14, 1996; Public Law 104-199)
• Senator Hillary Clinton does not support same-sex marriage (ABC News, October 27, 2006).
• Former Vice President Al Gore opposed same-sex marriage during his 2000 campaign for President.
The vice president “supports domestic partnerships, (but) we don’t think they should be put in the same category as traditional marriages,” said Gore spokesman Chris Lehane.
San Francisco Chronicle, December 20, 1999″
RS
GAY MARRIAGE IS NOT THE ONLY GAY ISSUE!!!!
Jesus, people, I’ve advocated more for gay marriage than most people you know. Hell, I was on CNN twenty years ago as the leader and organizer of gay marriage protests.
But these stupid arguments that Dems are no better than Republicans because a lot of them don’t support gay marriage either is fucking bullshit.
The vast majority of Republicans, INCLUDING JOHN MCCAIN, don’t support Civil Unions or Domestic Partnerships, either. And in California, the Legislature voted TWICE to enact gay marriage, and both times 100% of the votes came from Democrats. Not a single Republican voted in favor of it either time.
But even so, GAY MARRIAGE IS NOT THE ONLY GAY ISSUE. What about ENDA? Hate crimes? Gays in the military?
I’ve been a longtime advocate for gay marriage but I am so fucking sick of how it’s taken over the entire movement.
lyssa
I’ve been a longtime advocate for gay marriage but I am so fucking sick of how it’s taken over the entire movement.
Word.
Don’t even get me started on gay abandonment of transfolk. nondiscrmination law, recognition of nonmarital gay and trans relationships, safe access to medical care for transfolk, our 1 in 8 murder rate, etc etc etc
CHURCHILL-Y
Biden and Palin “Agree” On Gay Rights?
Yes they do. They both agree that we are not entitled to the same rights as heterosexuals.
Both Palin and plugs agree on not supporting same sex marriage and had a good laugh at their point of agreement. So where’s the difference? Well, Senator plugs Joe Biden sided with Republicans to enact DOMA into law, and has never once said publicly that he regrets his vote or favors a full or even partial repeal. Now combine that with Obama’s 0 record on Gay Rights, his cosying up with homophobes and his refusal to support Marriage Equality and you have your answer:
THERE’S NO DIFFERENCE BTWN THE TWO WHEN IT COMES TO GAYS.
If anything the new DNC headed by Obama/Biden and the black political thugs are much worse for Gay people than anything the RNC can dishout. They have openly rabid homophobes in the party’s high ranks, including those so called closet cases who like Barack see nothing wrong with leaving GLBT Americans to the fate of whatever the States decide to grant us or not under the law at best.
Both Biden and Palin had a repulsive un-American response but between the two I and many others of my GLBT friends will opt for people who don’t bullsh*t us with double talk trying to be everything thing to everyone when in reality they are no different from the opposite side. One only has to read the comments from the drones like the one who posted before me to know what they are really about. Anyone who tells you that the right of Marriage Equality for Same Sex couples in not the most important issue in the fight to get rid of this Nation’s discriminatory laws against us either is so stupid that they fail to see how achieving full marriage rights immediately renders null all other discriminatory laws, or most likely is nothing more one of the endless Obama drones who post here.
Bill Perdue
Alexa says that “The big difference appears to be that Obama/Biden want us to have equal rights even if the name is different, McCain/Palin will “tolerate” us.â€
Wrong. They want us to be second class citizens which is what their civil unions/states rights approach is all about. If you have no problem being a second class citizen, Alexa, they vote for Obama or McCain, but think twice before imposing it on the rest of us.
ChristopherM – “if you think they are equal on their positions, you are either not paying attention or are willfully ignorant.†They have minor difference but on the whole their positions and the parties they come from are bigoted. They agree on same sex marriage, DOMA, states rights, gutting ENDA and tossing the hate crimes bill in the garbage.
If Obama needs cannon fodder he may want to end DADT, but hat’s hardly a reason to support him unless you support the oil war, and it’s side shows in US occupied Afghanistan and the new front being opened in Pakistan, which of course you do.
McCain’s Party is as despicable as the Party run by that venomous bigot Leah Daughtry in the DNC. People who live in glass closets shouldn’t throw stones.
mark – your blind partisanship denies the truth, which is that your party passed DADT and DOMA overwhelmingly, gutted ENDA and shit canned the hate crimes bill and won’t even mention our name in their platform. Supporting Obama is as stupid and self destructive as supporting McCain. We need a mass movement to fight them, not supinely submission and hoping for the best. That’s what stupid people did when Clinton was running.
And if Palin = Cheney in Lipstick then Obama = Bill Clinton, champion of the scantity of marraige and DOMA but without Monioc’s cum stained dresses.
and RS, what a total bullshit artist you are.
You bellow out “GAY MARRIAGE IS NOT THE ONLY GAY ISSUE!!!!†as if that actually meant something.
Same sex marriage, which is what we call it, is just one part of our agenda that the Democrats betrayed and trashed with gleeful Republican help. ENDA is another one and so was the Matthew Shepard Hate Crimes bill. Plus they refused to repeal the bigoted laws championed by Clinton, DOMA and DADT.
The Democrats have run congress for two years and everytime something of importance came up they shoved us under the bus and let the Republicans on board to make it that much heavier. Your attempt to defend Obama and the Democrats can only mean one thing; you like that, you agree with it, and you want it to keep happening.
You and your party are losers, and you’ll know it soon enough. An unwinnable war, a wrecked economy, the rising anger of working people about a little matter of the Grand Theft of $700 billion dollars (and counting) and demands from all sides to end bigotry will politically tear down the winners of the November 4th election. Whoever lies best will win and it’ll be Obama in a landslide.
Both parties associated with the theft of trillions to cover the losses of the incompetents who own the economy are already extinct. The Republicans will learn that on November 5th, and the Democrats as they flounder trying to deal with war, economic chaos and the mounting rage of working people. Both parties are just too dumb to know they’re politically dead… for now. .
Sweet.
Don’t be fooled, that racist swine CHURCHILL-Y is a diehard Republican who’s just looking for an angle. Racism and Republicans go together like to pigs in a sty.