“Thank you so much. It is great to be back. (Applause.) I see a lot of friends in the house. I appreciate the chance to join you tonight. I also took a trip out to California last week, where I held some productive bilateral talks with your leader, Lady Gaga. (Laughter.) She was wearing 16-inch heels. (Laughter.) She was eight feet tall. (Laughter.) It was a little intimidating.
Now, I donât want to give a long speech. Cyndi Lauper is in the house. I canât compete with that. (Applause.) But I wanted to come here tonight, first of all, to personally thank Joe for his outstanding years of leadership at HRC. (Applause.) What he has accomplished at the helm of this organization has been remarkable, and I want to thank all of you for the support that youâve shown this organization and for your commitment to a simple idea: Every single American â gay, straight, lesbian, bisexual, transgender â every single American deserves to be treated equally in the eyes of the law and in the eyes of our society. Itâs a pretty simple proposition. (Applause.)
Now, I donât have to tell you that we have a ways to go in that struggle. I donât have to tell you how many are still denied their basic rights â Americans who are still made to feel like second-class citizens, who have to live a lie to keep their jobs, or who are afraid to walk the street, or down the hall at school. Many of you have devoted your lives to the cause of equality. So you know what we have to do; weâve got more work ahead of us.
But we can also be proud of the progress weâve made these past two and a half years. Think about it. (Applause.) Two years ago, I stood at this podium, in this room, before many of you, and I made a pledge. I said I would never counsel patience; that it wasnât right to tell you to be patient any more than it was right for others to tell African Americans to be patient in the fight for equal rights a half century ago. (Applause.) But what I also said, that while it might take time â- more time than anyone would like â we are going to make progress; we are going to succeed; we are going to build a more perfect union.
And so, letâs see what happened. I met with Judy Shepard. I promised her we would pass a hate crimes bill named for her son, Matthew. And with the help of my dear friend Ted Kennedy we got it done. Because it should never be dangerous â (applause) â you should never have to look over your shoulder â to be gay in the United States of America. Thatâs why we got it done. (Applause.)
I met with Janice Langbehn, who was barred from the bedside of the woman she loved as she lay dying. And I told her that we were going to put a stop to this discrimination. And you know what? We got it done. I issued an order so that any hospital in America that accepts Medicare or Medicaidâand that means just about every hospitalâhas to treat gay partners just as they do straight partners. Because nobody should have to produce a legal contract to hold the hand of the person that they love. We got that done. (Applause.)
I said that we would lift that HIV travel banâwe got that done. (Applause.) We put in place the first comprehensive national strategy to fight HIV/AIDS.”
Speech continued on next page
“Many questioned whether weâd succeed in repealing âdonât ask, donât tell.â And, yes, it took two years to get the repeal through Congress. (Applause.) We had to hold a coalition together. We had to keep up the pressure. We took some flak along the way. (Applause.) But with the help of HRC, we got it done. And âdonât ask, donât tellâ is history. (Applause.) And all over the world, there are men and women serving this country just as they always have â with honor and courage and discipline and valor. We got it done. (Applause.) We got that done. All around the world, youâve got gays and lesbians who are serving, and the only difference is now they can put up a family photo. (Laughter.) No one has to live a lie to serve the country they love.
I vowed to keep up the fight against the so-called Defense of Marriage Act. Thereâs a bill to repeal this discriminatory law in Congress, and I want to see that passed. But until we reach that day, my administration is no longer defending DOMA in the courts. I believe the law runs counter to the Constitution, and itâs time for it to end once and for all. It should join âdonât ask, donât tellâ in the history books. (Applause.)
So, yes, we have more work to do. And after so many years â even decades â of inaction youâve got every right to push against the slow pace of change. But make no mistake â I want people to feel encouraged here â we are making change. Weâre making real and lasting change. We can be proud of the progress weâve already made.
And Iâm going to continue to fight alongside you. And I donât just mean in your role, by the way, as advocates for equality. Youâre also moms and dads who care about the schools your children go to. (Applause.) Youâre also students figuring out how to pay for college. Youâre also folks who are worried about the economy and whether or not your partner or husband or wife will be able to find a job. And youâre Americans who want this country to succeed and prosper, and who are tired of the gridlock and the vicious partisanship, and are sick of the Washington games. Those are your fights, too, HRC. (Applause.)
So Iâm going to need your help. I need your help to fight for equality, to pass a repeal of DOMA, to pass an inclusive employment non-discrimination bill so that being gay is never again a fireable offense in America. (Applause.) And I donât have to tell you, there are those who don’t want to just stand in our way but want to turn the clock back; who want to return to the days when gay people couldnât serve their country openly; who reject the progress that weâve made; who, as we speak, are looking to enshrine discrimination into state laws and constitutions â efforts that weâve got to work hard to oppose, because thatâs not what America should be about.
Weâre not about restricting rights and restricting opportunity. Weâre about opening up rights and opening up opportunity â (applause) â and treating each other generously and with love and respect. (Applause.)
And together, we also have to keep sending a message to every young person in this country who might feel alone or afraid because theyâre gay or transgender â who may be getting picked on or pushed around because theyâre different. Weâve got to make sure they know that there are adults they can talk to; that they are never alone; that there is a whole world waiting for them filled with possibility. Thatâs why we held a summit at the White House on bullying. Thatâs why weâre going to continue to focus on this issue. (Applause.) This isnât just âkids being kids.â Itâs wrong. Itâs destructive. Itâs never acceptable. And I want all those kids to know that the President and the First Lady is standing right by them every inch of the way. (Applause.) I want them to know that we love them and care about them, and theyâre not by themselves. Thatâs what I want them to know. (Applause.)
Now, I also need your help in the broader fight to get this economy back on track. You may have heard, I introduced a bill called the American Jobs Act. (Applause.) Itâs been almost three weeks since I sent it up to Congress. Thatâs three weeks longer than it should have taken to pass this common-sense bill. (Applause.) This is a bill filled with ideas that both parties have supported â tax breaks for companies that hire veterans; road projects; school renovations; putting construction crews back to work rebuilding America; tax cuts for middle-class families so they can make ends meet and spend a little more at local stores and restaurants that need the business.
Now, you may have heard me say this a few times before â Iâll say it again: Pass the bill. (Applause.) Enough gridlock. Enough delay. Enough politics. Pass this bill. Put this country back to work. (Applause.) HRC, you know how Congress works. Iâm counting on you to have my back. Go out there and get them to pass this bill. (Applause.) Letâs put America back to work.
Now, ultimately, these debates weâre having are about more than just politics; theyâre more about â theyâre about more than the polls and the pundits, and whoâs up and whoâs down. This is a contest of values. Thatâs whatâs at stake here. This is a fundamental debate about who we are as a nation.”
Speech continued on next page
We believe in a big America, an America that invests in the future â that invests in schools and highways and research and technology â the things that have helped make our economy the envy of the world.
We donât believe in a small America, where we meet our fiscal responsibilities by abdicating every other responsibility we have, and where we just divvy up the government as tax breaks for those who need them the least, where we abandon the commitment weâve made to seniors though Medicare and Social Security, and we say to somebody looking for work, or a student who needs a college loan, or a middle-class family with a child whoâs disabled, that âYouâre on your own.â Thatâs not who we are.
We believe in a big America, an America where everybody has got a fair shot, and everyone pays their fair share. An America where we value success and the idea that anyone can make it in this country. But also an America that does â in which everyone does their part â including the wealthiest Americans, including the biggest corporations â to deal with the deficits that threaten our future. (Applause.)
We donât believe in a small America. We donât believe in the kind of smallness that says itâs okay for a stage full of political leaders â one of whom could end up being the President of the United States â being silent when an American soldier is booed. (Applause.) We donât believe in that. We donât believe in standing silent when that happens. (Applause.) We donât believe in them being silent since. (Applause.) You want to be Commander-in-Chief? You can start by standing up for the men and women who wear the uniform of the United States, even when itâs not politically convenient. (Applause.)
We donât believe in a small America. We believe in a big America â a tolerant America, a just America, an equal America â that values the service of every patriot. (Applause.) We believe in an America where weâre all in it together, and we see the good in one another, and we live up to a creed that is as old as our founding: E pluribus unum. Out of many, one. And that includes everybody. Thatâs what we believe. Thatâs what weâre going to be fighting for. (Applause.)
I am confident thatâs what the American people believe in. (Applause.) Iâm confident because of the changes weâve achieved these past two and a half years -â the progress that some folks said was impossible. (Applause.) And Iâm hopeful â I am hopeful â
AUDIENCE MEMBER: Fired up!
THE PRESIDENT: Iâm fired up, too. (Laughter.) I am hopeful â (applause) â I am hopeful â I am still hopeful, because of a deeper shift that weâre seeing; a transformation not only written into our laws, but woven into the fabric of our society.
Itâs progress led not by Washington but by ordinary citizens, who are propelled not just by politics but by love and friendship and a sense of mutual regard. (Applause.) Itâs playing out in legislatures like New York, and courtrooms and in the ballot box. But itâs also happening around water coolers and at the Thanksgiving table, and on Facebook and Twitter, and at PTA meetings and potluck dinners, and church socials and VFW Halls.
It happens when a father realizes he doesnât just love his daughter, but also her wife. (Applause.) It happens when a soldier tells his unit that heâs gay, and they tell him they knew it all along and they didnât care, because he was the toughest guy in the unit. (Applause.) It happens when a video sparks a movement to let every single young person know theyâre not alone, and things will get better. It happens when people look past their ultimately minor differences to see themselves in the hopes and struggles of their fellow human beings. Thatâs where change is happening. (Applause.)
And thatâs not just the story of the gay rights movement. Thatâs the story of America â (applause) â the slow, inexorable march towards a more perfect union. (Applause.) You are contributing to that story, and Iâm confident we can continue to write another chapter together.
Thank you very much, everybody. God bless you.”
(Applause.)
Little Kiwi
Before all of the “Obama is useless and I’m not voting for him” comments come in, can I ask that those of you who hold that opinion to *specifically* state whom you consider a better and viable candidate to vote for in the next presidential election?
thank you in advance.
Term Two – LGBT Equality. I thought it was obvious to all of us.
~PR~
@Little Kiwi: I agree with what you say… I too am curious to see what candidate would be a better choice for securing equality for all? There’s so much flip-flopping in their trenches I just can’t keep track of where they stand. It doesn’t matter much to me though… Obama 2012!
Michael
Obama is useless! rolls eyes
Anyways back to humility I still think Obama needs to go further pertaining to gay rights.
But he’s made an impact on the LGBT community that has made a difference.So I am not gonna sit here and pretend like I am not grateful to him for that.I am indeed.We still have far to go though but we’ve gotten farther then we ever had gotten with Obamas health even if hes not exactly a proponent or supporter of same sex marriage he still has made a lot of leeway and progress for the LGBT community.Regardless of whether we like or do not like him or whether we do or do not trust him or whether we think his intentions have been genuine or insincere. He STILL has made an impact and ultimately in the end that is all that really matters.
Michael
With Obamas help not health damn typo.
RT
It’s nice to know that, no matter how Obama’s presidency ends, he will make millions in book sale from his sure-to-be-coming autobiography.
Obama knows that. I hope he chooses to be a good president still. Why not win both honor and the riches?
Chris
The problem isn’t so much Obama, but the relationship the HRC has him. They have spent the past two years apologizing and remaining conveniently silent. That’s not how I want my advocacy group to act. I don’t care about “access” and cocktail parties that don’t deliver anything to us. If I wanted to donate to the Democrats, I would do it and spare myself the HRC donation spam.
christopher di spirito
The issue for me has nothing to do with the usual scare tactics of: “If we don’t reelect Obama we will end up with, Perry, Romney, Cain, or Palin (take your pick.)
What annoys me with Barry-O is back in his Chicago political days, he was an ardent supporter of marriage equality. Not the separate but, equal, civil unions, or the pathetic domestic partnerships — he supported same-sex marriage.
But when the bright lights of Washington DC beckoned, he “evolved” backward and citing religious reasons, suddenly jettisoned full equality and embraced the lesser civil unions shtick.
Obama is president. His job is to lead by example. If, in his heart, as the O-Bots say, he’s a closet supporter of same-sex marriage, he needs to reach down, grab his manhood and proclaim: “As President, I support marriage equality and as President, I pledge to do everything in my power to make marriage equality a reality.”
But he won’t. He’s a politician and as long as there’s an 80-year old Baptist homophobe in Deep Well, TX who opposes same-sex marriage, Obama will side with her against us.
Michael
@christopher di spirito:
Most politicians will say whatever they have to say in order to get people to believe in them.
Does not surprise me in the least either that he used to be a supporter then conveniently “changed” his mind about it.
Pretty much what you would call a flip flopper.
Cam
@Little Kiwi:said…
“Before all of the âObama is useless and Iâm not voting for himâ comments come in, can I ask that those of you who hold that opinion to *specifically* state whom you consider a better and viable candidate to vote for in the next presidential election?”
______________________________
Thats the problem, he is getting my vote because the others are all crazy and bigots. Unfortunately, that doesn’t make him a great president for us, no matter how many speeches he gives. Being better than Bachman or Santorum doesn’t make you great. It just means you’re not horrible.
On the bright side, if he wins he has another term to prove us wrong.
Reason
Would it be nice if the president personally came out as a supporter of marriage equality? Sure, but he actually instructed his justice department to stop defending DOMA and had them state that it is unconstitutional. Those are actions, not just feel good words of a man saying I support gay marriage. Also anyone with a decent political acumen would agree that if he stoped defending DOMA at the begining of his term DADT repeal and hate crimes legislation would not have happened. The sausage making is ugly, but this president has significant policy victories, that takes a politically savvy leader. Pivot to foreign policy and he has done a good job, the only thing suffering is the economy. Inherent by huge corporate profits the government has created the atmosphere for hiring, but the government alone can not create jobs. The jobs problem is one of greed and previous economic mismanagement in both the business world and public sphere. I believe the president has an argument for reelection, and for gay Americans his success is sure to be a boon for ours.
JayKay
@Little Kiwi:
I’m not going to get full equality under Obama. I’m not going to get it under a Mitt Romney either, but at least with him in the white house I might not be forced to pay for health insurance I don’t need in order to subsidize the old, the fat, and the diseased.
Cam
@JayKay: said…
“Iâm not going to get it under a Mitt Romney either, but at least with him in the white house I might not be forced to pay for health insurance I donât need in order to subsidize the old, the fat, and the diseased.”
__________________________________
Are you joking?? You’re paying for them now. You’re paying for all their treatment at the emergency rooms.
Additionally, Romney brought in statewide insurance coverage in MA that was one of the models for what Obama brought in. So……you know you won’t get that type of insurance…by voting for the guy who brought it in in the first place.
fredo777
@JayKay: Yeah. Vote for a Mitt Romney, + there’s a lot more than forced health insurance that you’re not going to get.
Rob
WHAT? Did someone really say they’d prefer Mitt Romney over Barack Obama because of the National Health Care issue? WTF?
Kurt
@JayKay:
You really don’t have and don’t want health insurance? You’re either making that up or a fool.
the crustybastard
Two years ago, I stood at this podium, in this room, before many of you, and I made a pledge. I said I would never counsel patience.
Then a couple of days ago, you rationalized your unwillingness to make a priority of the legislative repeal of DOMA by insisting it would be overruled the courts “fairly soon.”
I met with Judy Shepard. I promised her we would pass a hate crimes bill named for her son, Matthew….we got it done. Because it should never be dangerous â you should never have to look over your shoulder â to be gay in the United States of America.
And you haven’t prosecuted a single LGBT hate crime under that law.
I met with Janice Langbehn, who was barred from the bedside of the woman she loved as she lay dying. And I told her that we were going to put a stop to this discrimination. And you know what? We got it done. I issued an order so that any hospital in America that accepts Medicare or Medicaidâand that means just about every hospitalâhas to treat gay partners just as they do straight partners.
This rule ends discrimination against all unmarried people, gay or straight. Nice, but not exactly a big lift. Ditto the HIV stuff.
âMany questioned whether weâd succeed in repealing âdonât ask, donât tell.â And, yes, it took two years to get the repeal through Congress. We had to hold a coalition together. We had to keep up the pressure. We took some flak along the way.
You didn’t have to. You could have respected the holding in LCR v Gates. But you had to do it your way because you want keep discriminating against the current servicemembers and their families, and the thousands of unfairly discharged ones.
All around the world, youâve got gays and lesbians who are serving, and the only difference is now they can put up a family photo.
Right. Because the family still can’t have the benefits the servicemember is earning. That sure as hell didn’t change.
I vowed to keep up the fight against the so-called Defense of Marriage Act.
By enforcing it.
My administration is no longer defending DOMA in the courts.
After years of defending the indefensible while lying about some “duty” to do so. Well, at least you quit lying.
I believe the law runs counter to the Constitution
Which means you’re violating your oath of office by enforcing it.
I donât have to tell you, there are those who…are looking to enshrine discrimination into state laws and constitutions
Like yourself? You’ve said that “states should choose,” as if discrimination is a valid choice.
So Iâm going to need your help…to pass an inclusive employment non-discrimination bill so that being gay is never again a fireable offense in America.
Totally agree. It’s urgently needed.
You may have heard, I introduced a bill called the American Jobs Act.
Does it contain a provisions that being gay is never again a fireable offense in America?
LOL. Of course not.
tjr101
@JayKay: Thats typical right-wing drivel, someone who knows absolutely nothing about the present system. You’re already paying for other people’s healthcare with or without “Obamacare” Einstein!
fredo777
@the crustybastard: The American Jobs Act isn’t about anti-discrimination, so why would it address that issue? Separate issue, separate bill. That seemed like a bit of a reach on your part.
the crustybastard
@fredo777:
ENDA’s relationship to jobs legislation is far less tenuous a connection than a hate crimes to military spending, no?
And that’s how hate crimes “got done.”
JayKay
@Kurt:
I’m 23. I have more important things to pay for.
the crustybastard
@JayKay:
You’re 23?
Surprise! “The old, the fat, and the diseased” have paid your way nearly your entire life.
You’re the freeloader.
Perspective. Try it sometime.
fredo777
@the crustybastard: I’m aware of that practice, yes. The point is, though, you have to attach it to something that your opposition actually WANTS in order to push it through. Attaching anti-discrimination for gay workers to this particular bill, though, would just be another reason for the Repubs to cock-block it. Which, almost inevitably, would end up with a complete whittling away of all the original intended benefits of the act (“well if you want that, we want this…and you’ll have to lose that…”). I think that’s a silly idea.
the crustybastard
@fredo777:
So your argument is that President Obama should never propose legislation that protects gay workers because Republicans will oppose it?
Evidently he agrees with your perspective. I don’t.
The way politics ACTUALLY works is you put what you what you want done in your bill, then you make whatever backroom deals you need to get the votes necessary to pass. (E.g. “Well, Senator Tankerbell, I was going to vote to kill that Army Project X built in your state, but I might be willing to reconsider,” or “If you ever want a committee chair, you’ll vote for this.”)
Politics may once have been “the art of compromise,” but it hasn’t been that way for generations. Politics is the art of leverage. It’s not pretty or nice or fair. Wear a cup.
The fact antidiscrimination never manages to make it into Democratic legislation self-proves Democrats don’t want it. But you’re certainly welcome to stay on the plantation and believe they love and care about you.
Look, here’s a shiny new speech!
FYI
@fredo777 who suggested: “…[ENDA] would end up with a complete whittling away of all the original intended benefits of the act [if combined with any other so-called employment related bill].”
———————–
Hmmmm…you mean kind of like how Obama personally insisted that anti-discrimination provisions, meant to protect Gay and Lesbian patriotic members of the Armed Services from institutionalized bigotry, be stripped out of the repeal of DADT last year even after it became a stand-alone bill?
…Oh, but some of our Democrap “friends” in Congress and in the HRC rationalized it by saying: Don’t worry, Obama will issue an executive order to the Pentagon to mandate the enforcement of non-discrimination policies and equal treatment of Gay and Lesbian Military Personnel.
Uh…so where is it? I am not referring to DOMA as it pertains to the military and family benefits — that is part of a separate repeal and/or court action — no, I am talking about still slamming the door of equal protection in the faces of every Gay and Lesbian in the Military even after DADT Repeal in terms of job promotions and work-place harassment.
———-
Kris Coyner wrote recently in the Washington state newspaper, “The Olympian”:
“In addition to the inequities left unaddressed by the repeal, the wording of the âDonât Ask Donât Tell Repeal Actâ of 2010 itself is full of holes. Congress did not include a nondiscrimination stipulation in the act. The Pentagon has unambiguously stated that sexual orientation is not among its protected classes. Therefore, the Military Equal Opportunity policy will not change to protect gay service members.
In other words, gay soldiers are protected from firings, but not discrimination.
While the repeal lifts the ban on openly gay service members, Congress did not specifically direct the Pentagon to allow them to serve. Because Congress did not explicitly require this, a new president could order the ban be reinstated. Several Republican presidential candidates have stated they would do just that.”
Read more: http://www.theolympian.com/2011/09/30/1820350/repeal-of-dont-ask-dont-tell-policy.html
————-
I also noticed not one Obot could refute what our very astute contributor, “The CrustyBastard”, outlined above about Obama’s hate-f*cking the GLBT Community before his 2010 Congressional ass-kicking in the midterms. Now, Obama crawls back to us for a hug, expecting millions of kisses in the form of both cash and votes from the whipped puppies who have no other place to go.
Take a tip from the effective, albeit thoroughly vile Tea-Baggers — “Demand, don’t Beg!” …You’ll respect yourself more in the morning for it.
Little Kiwi
@JayKay: I love this attempt at logic. People like you care more about “the old, the fat, the diseased” rather than you care about those who through no fault of their own simply cannot afford the high-cost of life-saving medical treatments.
it’s a stunningly selfish way to live. but given your history for outright bigotry and trolling, that doesn’t surprise me.
the US is a mystery to me. it’s, apparently, only a “Christian Nation” when it comes to hating Muslims and gays, not when it comes to peace, ending gun-violence, promoting equality and taking care of the sick and the poor. You know, the kind of things that Christ fella would have done.
fredo777
@the crustybastard: “So your argument is that President Obama should never propose legislation that protects gay workers because Republicans will oppose it?”
That isn’t what I said nor is it what I meant. My point was that it shouldn’t be pushed through by attaching it to this particular bill.
Also, that “stay on the plantation” comment was as ignorant as it was unnecessary to get your point across.
fredo777
@FYI: “@fredo777 who suggested: ââŚ[ENDA] would end up with a complete whittling away of all the original intended benefits of the act [if combined with any other so-called employment related bill].â”
I never suggested anything about ENDA’s benefits, actually, seeing as I never brought them up in this conversation. I was talking specifically about the American Jobs Act.
Side-note: it’s nearly the end of Obama’s first term in office. Have you still not come up with a more original (or relevant) phrase to describe his supporters than Obots? This might come as a surprise to you, but not everyone who doesn’t bash Obama at every possible second is a blind follower/automaton, oblivious to his missteps/shortcomings.
the crustybastard
@fredo777: You’re making a distinction without a difference.
The fact is, for the past three years, Obama has actually done very little to confront and correct discriminatory legislation. Two of those years he had a legislative supermajority. Instead, he directed his energy into defending those discriminatory laws in court, enforcing laws he believes are unconstitutional against gay Americans, and advancing legislation to pointlessly require the continuation of unnecessary discrimination.
Sure, every bit of that is his prerogative as president â but I’m sick of hearing speeches about how dear equality it is to him in principle. His convictions do not matter if he lacks the courage of those convictions.
What about my plantation comment belied my failure of comprehension? I didn’t see anything in Obama’s speech that wasn’t, “I’ve been mighty good to you people, and I promise to keep you happy if you just keep working for me?” And evidently it IS necessary to make that point, because there are those in our community who simply despair at the mere idea of ever stepping foot off the plantation. Any failure to wholeheartedly endorse every Democrat is, in their minds, just the same as hacking a Diebold and registering ten thousand votes for Republicans!
It scarcely matters to them that abandoning the failed politics of Democrats is not the same as embracing the failed politics of Republicans. Because they can only see red and blue, there are no other colors.
Little Kiwi
last time i checked there was never a “perfect” President, nor candidate. the only ones who look back and have false memories of perfection are the dunces with selective amnesia who are still fellating dear dead Reagan.
You can support Obama and still be critical and put the heat on him. And again, I’ve yet to hear anyone give a specific name for a more viable and pro-Equality candidate.
dont’ just be “against Obama” – be specific about whom you are FOR.
if you can….
Michael
@Little Kiwi:
Realistically speaking there is no other candidate that is viable nor any that would bring LGBT subject matter or rights or marriage to the forefront.I personally agree that the other candidates if you can even call them that will cause nothing but trouble and add even more bigotry dissension and intolerance to this society then there already is.
Like him or do not like him Obama has definitely made a difference and without him that difference never would have been made.I’m grateful for that .
Michael
Obama however does need to implement some kind of law against all these anti LGBT hate crimes and these senseless and tragic suicides that continue to happen.
If Obama promised this to Matthews mom then he should have already implemented this by now and held those responsible for these crimes under the law.
fredo777
@the crustybastard: “Youâre making a distinction without a difference.”
You are attributing a completely different meaning to my words + I’m not allowing you to put words in my mouth. “President Obama should never propose legislation that protects gay workers because Republicans will oppose it…” OR “You should attach it to something your opponents don’t want to block, as it stands a better chance of getting through (which is the leverage you spoke of)”. There is certainly a difference.
If you don’t see how there might be a slight disparity between the experience of slaves + that of gays who have a choice to vote Democratic + do so, then I’m not even going to bother with that one.
Little Kiwi
@Michael: the matthew shepard act was passed. by Obama.
Michael
@Little Kiwi:
Why hasnt anyone been prosecuted under this law then?
ewe
The Bummer will defend your right to not be discriminated against by fighting to repeal DOMA but the Bummer will not promote marriage equality so you can marry a person of your gender. That’s it in a nutshell. Does anyone know whether or not the Bummer has evolved since this speech?
Michael
@ewe:
In 2008 his stance was being for civil unions not marriage.Now I am not quite sure he seems to be of the same stance it doesn’t seem to have evolved much since then. That’s my observation anyways.
Little Kiwi
ewe, do you have a specific candidate for the next election that you feel is more vocally progressive and has a viable shot at winning?
Michael, I don’t know what you’re asking. The Matthew Shepard & James Byrd Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act was passed. By President Barack Obama. In 2009.
It’s also the first American federal law to extend legal protection to trans people.
ewe
So there is tons of applause from the audience for your representative who says you should not be discriminated against but no questions to him regarding why your representative is not fighting for your right to enjoy the same rights he and people who share his particular orientation do. I get it. Gay people do not deserve to be discrimated against but are not going to enjoy equality either. Not good enough!!! Do not let someone kick the ball further down the road when all he is promising you is the possibility he may “evolve” on the issue. Perhaps. Maybe. Well maybe not either. Who knows. Just wait. Yeah. That’s it. Later. Maybe. Perhaps.
Little Kiwi
so which specific candidate do you suggest as a more viable and pro-Equality alternative in the next election, ewe?
ewe
@Michael: i agree.
ewe
@Little Kiwi: The election is a year away and there is always have been more than two choices. Spare me the communal rhetoric of any recurring nightmare scenario.
Little Kiwi
You’re clearly against Obama. We get who you’re against. I’m asking you whom you are specifically FOR.
Which candidate that is more driven toward LGBT Equality, and is indeed a viable candidate, will you be championing and supporting in the next Presidential election?
if you can’t give a name yet, how about a few names of possibilities?
thanks in advance for your honest and clear answer to this very simple and direct question.
ewe
@Little Kiwi: Oh wait a minute. I have to change my response to you. You are a Canadian and probably not a citizen which means you do not vote because if true you cannot vote in the US which means you should STFU and not get involved. That is the way in which you would react to others right? BTW Welcome.
ewe
@Little Kiwi: I am just playing with you and i know you are smart enough to know why. You just love dishing it out so i know you can take it. I am joking for the most part.
Little Kiwi
a Canadian living in the US who indeed remains sociopolitically active. It’s a very simple question. You are more than vocal about how you dislike President Obama.
I’m asking you to be clear about whom you would offer as a viable alternative – a more LGBT-progressive Presidential candidate. there is no use in being anti-_____ when you can’t be specifically pro-_______.
so, while it may be too early for you to give the one name you will choose, how about you help everyone out on here by showing us which other candidates should be considered?
Again, your clarity and honesty in answering this very clear and simple question will be appreciated.
Little Kiwi
what i love is honesty and logic. so, who are the more viable pro-Equality candidates that you feel LGBT people would be better off voting for in the next election?
ewe
@Little Kiwi: What YOU are saying is that you are satisfied with the crumbs others will give you as they sit in front of you eating cake. Think about it. Really please. For all our good think about it.
Little Kiwi
Oh, no. I understand that fully. What I’m asking you is to specifically name the other viable candidates who are going to be more progressive and get more work done. Clearly you must know of a few, as you are very clear about how you don’t like Obama.
that’s what I’m asking you, – I’m asking you who the better viable options are. Thanks in advance for giving a clear and direct and non-evasive answer.
ewe
@Little Kiwi: Honesty and logic? Grow up Kiwi. You got some nerve promoting a liar on a gay blog. My answer? We are not voting today and i will be and always have been filled with more self respect and dignity fighting someone who says “no you cant and i hate you” instead of someone who says “yes you can but i am full of shit.”
Little Kiwi
you keep responding to me, but you have yet to even give one name of a candidate, or even potential-candidate, who is going to be a viable option with a stronger pro-Equality stance.
i get it. you don’t like Obama. nobody is debating that. What I’m asking you is which specific other possible candidates for the Presidency are more actively pro-Equality and are viable choices?
All you have to do, ewe, is give us the names of these people who you feel would be a better option. I cannot understand why you continue to refuse to list these people, since you have no problem in responding to my posts.
Michael
@Little Kiwi:
Smh no one has been prosecuted under these acts or laws whichever they are.So the question is why? Its now 2011 I would have thought people would have been prosecuted by now based on these laws.
Once again just my observation.
Little Kiwi
I have no idea, Michael. You made a statement about Obama regarding the hate crime laws. I pointed out that he signed into law the Matthew Shepard Act back in 2009.
If you want to know if people have been prosecuted under this then look into it.
ewe
@Little Kiwi: you are somewhat dense Kiwi. Or you just have a one track mind. Take your pick. I said that there is a year to go. Just cause you got your life and thoughts as you see it today in cement doesn’t mean everyone does.
Michael
@Little Kiwi:
I just assumed you would know.My mistake.
Little Kiwi
so, ewe, which potential candidate or nominees are viable options with better pro-Equality stances?
i understand that you do not like Obama, I’m asking you what potential candidates you deem to be better. For some reason, you refuse to directly and honestly answer this very simple and clear question.
Michael
@Little Kiwi:
Sarah Palin is the best candidate shes the perfect example of insanity .
Michael
@ewe:
I am sorry for the last time we talked I forgot to say that.I always try to hold myself accountable for the things I say and do so I am sorry for the way I acted towards you earlier. I shouldnt let the actions of a few affect how I treat everyone else.
ewe
@Little Kiwi: You are so rediculous really. Obama wants to be reelected. He says what he has to and goes as far as he can up against the line in order to get what he wants for himself. That has nothing to do with your rights. Nobody addressed the fact he has yet to fucking “evolve.” Tho HRC has not addressed it. The HRC will take you for granted because they are essentially saying all gay voters will tow the line. WRONG. I don’t care if Obama is reelected. Save your militant bs for someone who is not more militant than you. Obama can say that marriage equality is something for everyone before election day but he won’t. He won’t even be fucking asked the question by a gay organization disguising itself as the arbiter of my interests. That whole Wall Street debacle going on downtown is nothing more than a staged set fueled by the media. NOT YOUNG PEOPLE and their lofty ideals about justice and equality. It’s election year and it is a smokescreen for Obama so people credit the Democrats pretending to be concerned for the everyday man. That protest would not even get coverage if not for that. It is propaganda. 20 somethings just don’t know it. Democrats standing by and watching Unions be stripped of power is one more example of aiding and abetting the elite. Baby that is not presidential representation for all. Obama bailed out Wall Street not Main Street. It didn’t work and now the Democrats are jumping on the wagon of victimhood along with all those who got foreclosed on and lost their jobs. Dispicable. Manipulative.
ewe
@Michael: Don’t fret. I am an asshole. Just ask anyone.
Little Kiwi
yes, i hear all of that, ewe.
now, which potential-candidates that are more Pro-Equality and are viable options do you suggest the LGBT Community support and possibly vote for?
We all understand that you dont’ like Barack Obama. Now is the time when you let us all know which other candidates or potential candidates are better options.
It’s a remarkably simple question that you consistently avoid answering clearly and non-evasively.
Just give a few names, please.
Little Kiwi
to be blunt, stop telling us why you don’t like Obama. We all know you don’t like him. I’m asking you, repeteadly, whom you are FOR.
which specific potential-candidates are you in SUPPORT OF. we all know what you’re not a fan of, this is the part where you offer a solution to a perceived problem by letting us know the viable candidates who are more strong in their pro-Equality stances.
my question to you could no be more clear and you are doing everything but answer it clearly and directly.
Michael
@ewe:
Met plenty of them here and online for years so im used to it man lol
fredo777
Yeah, ewe, why write a novel about how terrible of a choice Obama is when you’re not even prepared to offer any better alternatives? I don’t think anyone here has said (or believes) that Obama is the end-all be-all, but it might be nice to illustrate why another candidate is preferable. Yes, there is another year or so, but as it stands, who are better options to vote for or even those who you’d hypothetically like to see in office?
Little Kiwi
exactly, Fredo.
we all hear the “i can’t stand Obama!” rants. What none of the ranters are doing, however, is talking about whom they support and champion.
be proactive and offer applicable solutions to the problem you see. don’t write an epic novel about why you dislike Obama.
Offer, with clarity and honesty, specific alternatives that you feel will be better, stronger pro-Equality candidates, or even potential-candidates.
so, whom?
ewe
@fredo777: hahahah. You are a facebook tween telling people that in order to have an opinion that you won’t cry about i have to cook and spoon feed you a meal to your liking. Fuck you. I got one vote just like you and i don’t owe you shit.
Little Kiwi
Actually, ewe, it’s a rational adult saying “we hear you talking about what you hate, now how about you specifically tell us about what you support” , and you continue to avoid being direct and honest.
we get it. you don’t like Obama. now, whom do you specifically think are better options?
all you have to do is be honest and give their names.
the crustybastard
@Little Kiwi:
What none of the “ranters” are doing is allowing you to reframe the issue in order to derail the thread into pointless speculation, jackass.
We’re discussing the failures of President Barack H. Obama.
The H is for “Hold Me Accountable.”
ewe
@fredo777: It might be nice to offer solutions you say? It might be nice if you read what i write and have the candidate offer solutions and answer the quesions that gay organizations you think are representing you don’t bother asking. You are not equal to your heterosexual counterparts fredo and your president that you are supporting does not fully support you.
Little Kiwi
it’s actually not “pointless speculation” – it would in fact be a proactive solution to a perceived problem. it’s useless and pointless to bitch about what you hate without offering a clear and directly applicable plan of action to rectify the problem.
essays on hating Obama achieve nothing. what achieves something is one offering a specific alternative.
so, perhaps Crusty and ewe can now offer specific examples of potential candidates who are, or will be, viable options and are much stronger leaders and allies for LGBT people and the need for Equality.
uselessness is bitching about President Obama without offering an alternative. We’re asking whom those alternatives are, and for some reason nobody is being honest and clear about whom they would be. Just more Obama-bashing.
Little Kiwi
i repeat, rather than letting everyone know how much you dislike Obama why not let everyone know whom the better options would be?
why complain when you can offer a specific applicable solution to a problem?
Steven
Yes, before all of the “I’m not voting for Obama” comments come in…
I’m tired of the gay community expecting Obama to change things over night. The fact is, we do have a long way to go and choosing to vote one of the right wing crazies into his spot is only going to make the journey rougher and longer.
People complaining about him voting one way and then the next… think about it… think about what’s in the present and what might have been a result of the past. By not overtly coming out in support for specific gay rights, he was able to win moderate votes who at the time, may not have been completely for gay rights. In a way it was smart and as a result we have a pro-gay president (I get it, you don’t think he’s pro-gay enough)! Think some more… he is the most pro-gay president we’ve ever had. As far as what he can do for the gay community, HE’S ONLY THE PRESIDENT, not king of the world. Laws go through the House and the Senate and because out of your frustrations decided to put Tea Party whack-jobs into the House and now nothing is getting accomplished in the government. Who’s fault is that? Stop blaming Obama, and think of the stupid decisions you made last November.
I also think people are getting consumed in their one issue stance. Don’t get me wrong, gay rights is at the top of my list, too, but because the bitching queens who didn’t think Obama was working hard enough and voted Republican/Tea Party last November have made it so that I can’t worry about a lot of that right now. Why? Gay rights aren’t going to appear with a part of our government controlled by religious nut cases – so good job.
If you really believe Obama isn’t a good president because gay marriage isn’t the law of our land yet, take a second to reflect on your personal stupidity.
ewe
@Little Kiwi: You are a dumb numbskull. I support full equality. Not bullshit talk and halfway “we’ll get theres.” “Someday over the rainbow” is not my lifes song theme. It is not too much to ask for the incumbent to state that you should be able to marry your own gender. I already told you more than once we are not voting today. Of course that is not ringing any credibility to you because you are a Canadian who isn’t going to vote for US president anyway. That should not mean you can’t comprehend my answer i gave to you more than once. I think i am older than you so save the “best of the worst” doomsday bullshit for someone else. I have heard that for decades.
ewe
@Steven: that’s real nice if your twelve.
Little Kiwi
Ok, great. And so which potential candidates should we be looking into supporting in the next election?
You keep ignoring that question. I’m asking you to follow through with your claims – don’t just complain, offer a specific and applicable solution.
I know we’re not voting today. I’m asking you which potential candidates do you think the LGBT community should be supporting instead?
You keep ignoring that. It’s useless to say “not Obama” without offering even ONE name as a possible alternative.
Ronbo
@Little Kiwi: Howard Dean. Emanulle Cleaver. Elizabeth Warren. And about 100,000,000 citizens who aren’t bought-and-paid for by the wealthy corporate class.
If a rotten apple is one choice and a rotten banana is the other, would YOU choose the lesser of the two evils? No, I’d get some fresh fruit. You my litta Kiwi are a Dick!
Little Kiwi
Ronbo, thank you for at least offering three names. How am I a dick? Because I was asking someone to offer a solution instead of just bitching?
nowhere have i said “you have to vote for Obama because he’s the lesser of two evils” – i’ve simply, clearly and repeatedly asked for other potential candidates. You are the first person to have done that.
I’m not a dick because others are incapable of given clear and direct answers to clear and direct questions.
ewe
@Little Kiwi: You are in a state of Fear.
Little Kiwi
New York isn’t fear. đ
ewe, you have done everything to avoid being honest. it speaks volumes. we get it. you don’t like Obama. but until you can offer a specific alternative you’re about as useful as tits on a fish.
being against something is useless if you’re not also actively and specifically FOR something else.
you’re like that girl in high school who complains that the school dance “sucks” and yet offers not one piece of advice to make the next one better. congrats
ewe
@Little Kiwi: and it is self induced fear Kiwi. Not permeating elsewhere beyond you. It is within you. Do you have any idea how you are displaying your self esteem defending someone who doesn’t defend you. Obama playing it safe is not satisfactory. Our equality is not about his reelection. You just think it is.
Little Kiwi
im actually not defending Obama, i’m asking you to offer a specific alternative as a potential candidate and you’re doing everything but answer that question.
i keep saying “who should we vote for?” and you keep saying “Obama sucks”
that’s not an answer.
whom do you specifically champion as a potential candidate?
ewe
@Little Kiwi: dont even start lecturing me about NY Ms. Canada. My roots are NY. My life those that i come from is all over the tri state area. You are not NY. You are one person. What a fucking ego.
Little Kiwi
Ok, great. So whom are you specifically suggesting LGBT people throw their support to in the next election?
Ronbo
Let us not forget that Obama tabled DADT and it was pushed back onto the table by Pelosi. Litta Kiwi, you are as ignorant of the facts as you are pretensious.
By the way, who appointed you “Queen” of the comments section? Your fly is open and your tiny little sceptre is showing. Now skip on back to the Obamabot line where it’s all “oh’s and ah’s” with Obama’s tactics of ordering assassination of US citizens WITHOUT a trial. If Bush had done that’ you’d be squealing bloody murder.
Think less “Democrat vs. Republican” and MORE “right vs. wrong”.
ewe
@Little Kiwi: That is exactly what i am talking about. Your comprehension. I said you are full of fear and you respond NY isn’t fear. What the fuck is that supposed to mean Ms. Thing?
Little Kiwi
you said i’m in a state of fear. i’m in New York State. it aint fear. and calling me “ms. thing” or “queen” doesnt’ insult me. unlike you guys i didnt’ have a father that resented having a gay son so i’m not crippled by fears of emasculation. đ
i’m not defending Obama – I’m asking who the better more viable options are for candidates in the next election. so far, nobody is offering any. just a bunch of whining about how much you all hate Obama.
ok. hate him. but offer an alternative along with it. or else you’re just useless complainers.
ewe
@ewe: a girl in high school? oh my. That is not so different than you saying what you previously say all the time which is “yo mama this, yo daddy that, yo sista here, yo brotha there.” I am going out to exercise. good bye.
Little Kiwi
exactly. you leave because you can’t give a name. thanks for proving me right. have a great “work out” đ
ewe
@Little Kiwi: get a mirror brat.
the crustybastard
@fredo777: âYou should attach it to something your opponents donât want to block, as it stands a better chance of getting through (which is the leverage you spoke of)â.
Well, that’s not really the leverage I spoke of, but whatever. You would be content for Democrats to express their principled position in favor of the Constitutional guarantees of equality by occasionally stapling half-measures and empty gestures to the back of defense bills or new oil subsidies or whatever Republicans salivate over at the 11th hour, and hoping nobody notices or cares too much.
If you are fine with that, good for you. But we have been promised better than that, and I think we deserve better than that.
Moreover, the corollary to your point is that if you attach it to something your own party really wants to pass, that also increases its chances, does it not?
Thus, if Obama’s American Jobs Act can include provisions prohibiting discrimination against unemployed Americans, protecting the jobs of teachers, cops, and firefighters, and creating new incentives for hiring veterans, I don’t see why he can’t address the matter of discrimination, hiring and job security for LGBT Americans. We work too.
If you donât see how there might be a slight disparity between the experience of slaves + that of gays who have a choice to vote Democratic + do so, then Iâm not even going to bother with that one.
Not a fan of metaphor? That’s okay. It’s not for everyone.
Ronbo
@Little Kiwi: Because you start out challenging individuals right to think Obama is a failure. How about I challange you to name all the Democrats who are WORSE than Obama?
You have obviously NOT read and researched your opinion of support. Read “the Prince” by Machiavelli. Then, Let’s start with these…
Obama Administration: US Forces Can Assassinate Americans
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/2/9/obama_administrati…
NYT: Obama Administration Pressuring NY AG To Accept Bank Settlement Instead Of Prosecuting
http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/nyt-obama-admini…
Dems: Obama Broke Pledge to Force Banks to Help Homeowners
http://www.propublica.org/article/dems-obama-broke-pled…
Among Obama’s tough budget cuts: money to help needy pay for heat
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2011/0210/Among-O…
Labor unions uneasy as OSHA withdraws proposed rules
http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/141121-labor-une…
Justice Department seeks to have all web surfing tracked
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/25/justice-departmen… /
Treasury Blocks Legal Aid for Homeowners Facing Foreclosure | The Nation
http://www.thenation.com/blog/156973/treasury-blocks-le…
Drug Makers Win Administration Support in Price Dispute
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/10/us/politics/10drug.ht…
Counterinsurgency Outsourcing: America’s New Mercenaries in Afghanistan, Middle East, Africa
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2010/12/15/counte…
Obama administration readies indefinite detention order for Guantanamo
detainees http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20…
War Room: Contrary to public statements, Obama admin fueled conflict in Yemen
http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2010/12/09/…
A Reversal on End-of-Life Planning Under Medicare
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/05/health/policy/05healt…
Obama and GOPers Worked Together to Kill Bush Torture Probe
http://motherjones.com/politics/2010/12/wikileaks-cable…
U.S. drops demand for Israeli settlement freeze
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40554057/ns/world_news-mide… /
Big Polluters Freed from Environmental Oversight by Stimulus
http://www.iwatchnews.org/2010/11/29/2289/big-polluters…
Obama waiver allows U.S. aid to 4 countries using child soldiers
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20…
The Deal with the Hospital Industry to Kill the Public Option
http://news.firedoglake.com/2010/10/05/the-deal-with-th… /
Environmentalists Blast Obama Mining Reversal
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/04/02/national/main…
More Obama DOJ attacks on whistle-blowers
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/…
Little Kiwi
ewe, all you have to do is offer even one name as a more viable pro-LGBT alternative candidate. your inability to do so doesn’t make me a brat.
complaining about Obama is useless if you dont’ offer a specific alternative to vote for.
fredo777
@ewe: “hahahah. You are a facebook tween telling people that in order to have an opinion that you wonât cry about i have to cook and spoon feed you a meal to your liking. Fuck you. I got one vote just like you and i donât owe you shit.”
Cry about? Ultimately, I don’t really give a shit about your voting suggestions because I’m still going to vote for whichever candidate I personally favor. I just found it funny that you ranted so long-windedly against Obama but wouldn’t offer any alternatives.
Also humorous, your calling me a tween when your stance actually seems to be “I want everything that I want right now or I’m going to have a temper tantrum”. I think we all want full equality, but it’s not very realistic to expect that we’re going to get everything we want right away. Hence, the request for which candidate you think is a better option for helping us make the MOST progress. No candidate is going to get us everything we want right now, no matter how much they promise to do so. That is the world in which we live, whether or not you dislike “lesser of two evils” arguments.
Little Kiwi
@fredo777:
why does they always just sound like the miserable rants of a bunch of gay white men who never got over their dislike of black people?
the crustybastard
@Little Kiwi:
You have every right to demand people answer your personal questions fully and completely, and to direct and constrain the topics and conversation in the comments section in whatever way you insist…ON YOUR OWN FUCKING BLOG.
This is not your blog no matter how hard you try to monopolize it.
Little Kiwi
and all the excuses in the world don’t hide the simple reality that some people are angry little cowards who can only complain and not actually offer anything resembling a specific alternative.
legions of angry gay white men complain about Obama without offering a specific alternative to vote for. like i said, as useful as tits on a fish.
why no offers of alternatives? wouldn’t it be better to be Pro-_______ rather than anti-_______ and offering nobody else to vote for?
voting for “not Obama” isn’t an answer.
crusty, it’s not my fault that wimps like ewe can’t back their shit up.
*elegant curtsy*
Little Kiwi
curious, crusty – whom will you be voting for in the next election?
i was living in NYC and mailed in my vote for Jack Layton in the last Canadian election đ
fredo777
@the crustybastard: “Well, thatâs not really the leverage I spoke of, but whatever.”
I know it’s not quite what you said, but you mentioned leverage + that’s how I see it really being exercised.
“…stapling half-measures and empty gestures to the back of defense bills or new oil subsidies or whatever Republicans salivate over at the 11th hour, and hoping nobody notices or cares too much.”
I don’t recall ever stating that we should be cowardly or sneaky in the approach, but I do remember saying I thought there was a better approach to pushing through those particular protections.
“We work too.”
Indeed, we do, which is why I didn’t want to fuck up this act which could potentially benefit ALL of us citizens (LGBT workers included). More jobs being created necessarily provides more opportunities for all citizens who are eligible to work, but it doesn’t necessarily follow that because we are LGBT, that we will lose our jobs. That said, I still think it’s important to have anti-discrimination laws in place but don’t feel it’s our wisest move to attach those provisions to this bill right from the start. It could, however, be a good attachment if they counter (which they will) with some of their own attachments/interests.
“Not a fan of metaphor? Thatâs okay. Itâs not for everyone.”
I’m a big fan of metaphor. Hyperbole… not so much.
the crustybastard
@Little Kiwi:
There is a fair chance I’ll vote for a nominee from a political party. But the nominees haven’t been determined yet, dumbass. So it would be impossible to tell you who I COULD vote for, much less than who I WOULD vote for.
And I would no more be inclined to answer that question than I would be inclined to respond to inquiries about my net worth or how I like to fuck my beloved. Certain matters are personal and private, and it’s rude and childish to ask people such questions.
Am I the first person to tell you this? Were you raised by goats?
fredo777
@Little Kiwi: “why does they always just sound like the miserable rants of a bunch of gay white men who never got over their dislike of black people?”
I’m going to respectfully decline to make this a racially-driven debate. I know how much a lot of Obama-bashers feel his supporters’ only real argument is “you racist!”. You know…’the race card’ + all that business.
Little Kiwi
No, but I was raised in a country where people aren’t afraid to talk about whom they’re voting for. You’re very vocal about your dislike for Obama – i think it’s rather telling that you’re not as equally vocal about whom you WILL be voting for.
very telling indeed. đ you are upfront about your dislike of President Obama, but not upfront about whom you champion instead. yes. very telling.
and yes, Fredo, i do hear that. as i like to say “I’ll stop calling you a racist when you stop hating Obama for being black” đ
fredo777
@the crustybastard: “Certain matters are personal and private, and itâs rude and childish to ask people such questions.”
So it’s unreasonable (even childish) to ask someone in a political discussion who they think is a viable candidate? Or to ask who is a better alternative to the particular candidate that they’re railing against?
Duly noted.
Ronbo
@Little Kiwi: Better question- would you support Obama if he was white and republican?
Do you support assassination of Americans without trial? Obama does and did!
Do you support funneling money to Wallstreet and Bankers – but not for mainstreet or jobs?
Do you support NOT investigating the cause of and punishment of the guilty in the financial meltdown? Obama refuses.
Do you support allowing the air quality standards to remain dangerously high? Obama stopped the EPA from enforcing the planned increased standards (set by the Bush administration).
Do you support the idiocy of saying that the oil in the Gulf just evaporated? Obama said that.
Do you believe that the wealthy corporate class should have their Bush tax cuts extended? Obama supported, pushed and signed the extension.
I’m beginning to believe that Obama might just be a closet Republican. He certainly has been an extension of the Bush Administration. His policy is certainly on the down-low.
So who on this blog is hiding behind race so that they can support their Republican candidate? Ding, ding, ding!
the crustybastard
@fredo777: which is why I didnât want to fuck up this act which could potentially benefit ALL of us citizens (LGBT workers included).
Yes, American workers have 99 problems, but LGBT workers have those 99 problems + 99 more.
This unremitting attitude of “we’ll address your gay problems after all other problems are solved,” is the reason LGBT Americans have fewer rights than our neighbors, and fewer rights than most similarly situated European countries. Ferchrissakes, we should not have fewer civil rights than gays in Slovenia and South Africa. We had a huge head start.
The metaphor related to the paternalistic attitudes. It’s not hyperbolic.
Little Kiwi
I absolutely hear you, Ronbo. So whom is it you’ll be championing for the next Presidential Election?
we get it. anti-Obama people don’t have anyone that they support. thanks for sharing.
Ronbo
@fredo777: Fredo777, before you go supporting any candidate, please list those candidates who are worse. I demand that. Unless you are going to list them all, then your opinion is not to be heard. That was what ltl’ Kiwi was trying to do.
This isn’t ltl’ Kiwi’s world. And please injecting race into every single post. We elected Obama already. It’s time to measure people by the content of their character and NOT the color of their skin.
If you want to get behind a generally good guy who has character AND honesty, try Emanuel Cleaver, head of the CBC. He has the guts to call Obama out on his Republican policy.
Little Kiwi
So you’re voting for Cleaver? Great. Finally someone was honest. That’s all I’ve been asking for.
Little Kiwi
and actually, Ronbo, i was simply asking whom people are championing.
“Not Obama” is not an answer.
it’s an evasion of an answer
the crustybastard
@fredo777:
I think it’s rude and childish to attempt to derail a conversation by repeating the same off-topic question over and over and over and over and over. It’s called threadjacking. It is bad form. I also think it’s rude and childish for the guy to then pretend to take a victory lap under the misapprehension he has presented some sort of rhetorical gordian knot when in reality, people are just trying to ignore his increasingly shrill and desperate attempts to troll for attention.
Look, I don’t care to play “fantasy football” with politics. It is a foregone conclusion that the Democrats will nominate Obama/Biden. It doesn’t matter who I think is better qualified. The Democratic Party will offer me a second helping of Obama/Biden, and I can take it or leave it, or I can lodge a protest vote.
They’re not good options, but that’s what they are.
Little Kiwi
derail what “conversation”?
you mean the useless Complaining About Obama by asking people to specifically state whom we should be supporting instead?
i wouldn’t have had to ask “over and over” if any of the complaining wimps had just grown a pair and been as upfront about whom they support as they were about whom they don’t support.
You’re ignoring havingto be honest, not me. I’m sorry I ruined your “let’s hate obama party” by asking for specific solutions to the problem you see – namely asking people to be clean about which possible-candidates are more deserving of a vote.
the childish ones are the immature brats who can’t back up their statements with anything resembling honesty.
complaining about Obama is useless if you’re not offering a specific alternative.
the ways you wimps work so hard to not have to be honest is hilarious beyond words. life is so much easier when you’re not doing what you do.
“The Democratic Party will offer me a second helping of Obama/Biden, and I can take it or leave it, or I can lodge a protest vote.”
Ok. What do you think you’ll be doing?
Little Kiwi
and how will you feel if “protest votes” result in a GOP-victory and thus complete and utter setbacks for LGBT people?
some of you have such massive ego issues it’s no wonder Equality hasn’t come to the country – you’re so busy defending your right to your own perceived “point” that you’re willing to fuck things up for everyone else.
fredo777
@the crustybastard:
“This unremitting attitude of âweâll address your gay problems after all other problems are solved,â is the reason LGBT Americans have fewer rights than our neighbors…”
Perhaps, but it is also an undeniable fact that no matter how much we wish to have all of our desired equal benefits/rights granted at once, it is not reasonable to expect as much even if we do demand it all at once. Ideally, we would be able to have it all right away, but I don’t see any feasible option for making that a reality. To be clear, I never stated that I think Obama is the only possible option for president or that he’ll miraculously solve all of our problems. I just think it’s only fair that we give credit where credit is due + weigh our options fairly + evenly.
“The metaphor related to the paternalistic attitudes. Itâs not hyperbolic.”
I strongly disagree. There are much less exaggerated/extreme/offensive (?) comparisons you could have made, but to each his own.
————————————–
@the crustybastard: “I think itâs rude and childish to attempt to derail a conversation by repeating the same off-topic question over and over and over and over and over. Itâs called threadjacking.”
I’m not arguing against that particular point about the approach, only the notion that asking someone for their opinion of a viable candidate is somehow rude.
Little Kiwi
if people have no qualms with bitching about whom they will not vote for then why are they not equally comfortable and clear about whom they WILL be supporting?
fredo777
@Ronbo: I’ll admit, I haven’t heard much about Cleaver. Thanks for the suggestion. I haven’t cast a ballot yet, so I’ll be keeping all my options in mind.
Michael
@Ronbo:
Agreed with the last part especially.
Anyways really interesting what you said here. I thought Howard Dean was not gay friendly though? Maybe I am incorrect in that regard.
fredo777
Ok, homefries… I am starving + Ruby Tuesday’s turkey burger on a pretzel roll is calling my name.
Ttyl.
FYI
@Ronbo: who wrote: “If you want to get behind a generally good guy who has character AND honesty, try Emanuel Cleaver, head of the CBC. He has the guts to call Obama out on his Republican policy.”
======================
Um…let’s not look to the Rev. Emanuel Cleaver for honesty on LGBT issues. I was born in the city where Cleaver was the former mayor in Kansas City, Missouri. He, as usually the case among Democratic politicians, went to all the local LGBT political fund-raisers and events in order to garner money and support from the LGBT community — which he got for his election as city mayor before he ran for his current Congressional office. I was at one of the rallies at the Country Club Plaza where he said during a Gay Pride Event that he believed that all in the GLBT community were entitled to equal rights. He said, in his own left-handed way (his words): “The God I believe in don’t create no trash. You’re just as good as everyone else.” ….Kind of a weird way of putting it, but what the hell, we all believed in the core message.
Then came the next year after his election. The LGBT community asked for a Gay Pride declaration from the mayor they got elected. He refused and lied that he didn’t believe in declarations and wasn’t in the business of signing them. Ironically, the week before he signed a city declaration proclaiming the cabbage as the city’s official vegetable for the year, but apparently there was no desire on his part to elevate “the fruits” in the Gay community to that exalted position. The scumbag even left town during Pride Week when a little known Republican mayor of Westwood (a small adjoining Kansas town) stepped up and said “what the hell” and signed a Gay Pride Declaration for the LGBT community in Kansas City instead. It made national news.
In the meanwhile, it seems the Black evangelical ministers didn’t like the Gays in KC and spent most of their time, while Cleaver was in office, trying to get Gay books removed from the Kansas City Library — that is, when they weren’t too busy calling press conferences and burning our books on the sidewalk in front of the city library for the local press.
As a member of the city council Emanuel Cleaver earlier obstructed the passage of a pro-LGBT city ordinance 1990 that gave some job protections to LGBT employees in KC. The measure finally passed, without his help, after he became city mayor. No, Congressman Rev. Emanuel Cleaver was simply a forerunner to Obama. Both are hypocritical bigots. Pure and simple.
————–
By the way, @ @fredo777 who wrote to me: “I never suggested anything about ENDAâs benefits, actually, seeing as I never brought them up in this conversation. I was talking specifically about the American Jobs Act.”
…..Well, perhaps you just don’t recall that in your response to “The Crusty Bastard” you claimed that any anti-LGBT-employment discrimination language should not be part of the American Jobs Act.
Hmmmm…but anti-GLBT employment discrimination IS the crux of ENDA, so by inference, as you responded to “the Crustybastard’s” suggestion that provisions for non-discrimination can and should be added to any jobs bill, you certainly did argue against it as such in that legislative form — suggesting instead that you believed that such an amended bill was not doable in the Republican controlled House. Except the horse-trading that goes on with the tit for tat that each side incorporates could allow such a provision But, of course, look how Obama and the Democrats sold us out on the still provisional repeal of DADT where Obama insisted instead that non-discrimination language be removed from the House Bill, making it easier for his Department of (in)Justice to deny full separation pay to Gay and Lesbian Service Members who had been unconstitutionally separated from their jobs. The so-called “repeal” of DADT also allows any president to bring it back into force without an act of Congress.
Oh, and of course you never mentioned why ENDA was not addressed in a fully Democratic controlled congress in Obama’s first two years in office and why he did not push for it. Could it be that our own presidential version of Neville Chamberlain was too busy capitulating to the fascist Republican minority in Congress at the time and really not having the spine to fight for all of the issues that got him elected.
Furthermore, the term “Obot” is as prescient as ever. Whether you approve of it or not is irrelevant. Case in point, your predictable canned response to it’s appropriate usage was actually more cliche’.
FYI
Type-O Correction:
@fredo777…
Furthermore, the term âObotâ is as prescient as ever. Whether you approve of it or not is irrelevant. Case-in-point, your predictable canned response to its appropriate usage was actually more clicheâ.
fredo777
@FYI: Whether I approve of it or not is entirely beside the point. It is the predictable, cliche response to anyone who happens to have a positive view on any of Obama’s actions. If you bothered to find out more about the viewpoints of your opposition, you’d know how ridiculous the term was (specifically if it was used to describe someone like myself, who supports Obama but doesn’t give him a pass on every one of his actions). Fail.
fredo777
@FYI: “âŚ..Well, perhaps you just donât recall that in your response to âThe Crusty Bastardâ you claimed that any anti-LGBT-employment discrimination language should not be part of the American Jobs Act.”
Perhaps you don’t recall, but what I actually claimed in my original statement was that the American Jobs Act didn’t necessarily have to include anti-discrimination provisions, as it was a separate issue. Furthermore, I felt it could do more harm than good (particularly if it were included at the outset).
I feel we should still push for ENDA-like protection, but questioned how wise it would be to incorporate it into this Jobs Act bill, as it could take away from ITS benefits. How one infers from this that I think we should never fight for anti-discrimination laws baffles me. As I said, I never brought up the specific benefits of ENDA or similar anti-discrimination laws. Your phrasing made it seem as though I had. Perhaps that’s not the way you meant it, but it’s the way it looked based on your original phrasing.
“HmmmmâŚbut anti-GLBT employment discrimination IS the crux of ENDA…”
Yes, I’m aware of the purpose ENDA would serve. Nothing I’ve written should suggest otherwise.
“Oh, and of course you never mentioned why ENDA was not addressed in a fully Democratic controlled congress…”
You’re right. I didn’t.
FYI
@fredo777: who paranoidly wrote: “…(Obot) specifically if it was used to describe someone like myself… Fail.”
————–
Wow! Talk about cliche’, hackneyed expressions… * * * “Fail?” * * *
…Really?
How high school of you.
By the way, no Democratic president has been re-elected (other than Bill Clinton) since the 1940s when FDR was president. Seems like Obama (according to recent polls) is going to be the rule again and not the exception. That is what happens when you piss-off your liberal base. So typical of Democrats who always conveniently forget (at their own peril) who brought them to the prom. They never learn…do they? More’s the pity for all of the “hopey, changey” crowd that got hoodwinked by slick Obie.
fredo777
@FYI: “Wow! Talk about clicheâ, hackneyed expressions⌠* * * âFail?â * * *
âŚReally?
How high school of you.”
If you enjoyed that, you’re going to love my next reply to what you just wrote…yawn.
Little Kiwi
how come republicans always ignore that their “fiscally conservative choice” of an administration always ends up putting the country into debt?
FYI
@fredo777: Actually, that was your last paid trick’s response to your performance in the sack.
fredo777
@FYI: Never paid for it, never will. I’m cute.
FYI
@fredo777: I guess those sign language lessons really paid off for you then. Hell, you even got your favorite sex partner, your hand, to lie to you and tell you that you’re “cute”. đ
Here is a vid I found on the internet of you and Mr. Hand kissing each other:
http://www.signingsavvy.com/sign/CUTE
and then another one after sex…
http://www.signingsavvy.com/sign/BORED/50/1
FYI
@fredo777:
Mr. Hand explaining your sycophantic excuses for Obama:
http://www.signingsavvy.com/sign/STUPID/413/1
fredo777
@FYI: Of course I’m not going to click any of those links, but suffice it to say that I’m not impressed. Yes, my hand thinks I’m cute. But my eyes are the ones whose opinion really counts. They agree.
FYI
@fredo777: As Woody Allen would say: “Don’t trust your lying eyes.”
fredo777
@FYI: And on that note, good day to you.