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backstabbed

Buju Banton Met With the Gays. Then He Spat In Their Faces

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Not only did Buju Banton refuse to agree to anything when he met with gay rights activists in San Francisco, he’s now throwing up an iron wall — and declaring war. In an interview with a Jamaican talk show, the homophobic reggae artists says he’s still in “a fight” with the Gs. And is pleased to be engaged in battle.

Sure, Buju held a sit-down with Michael Petrelis and Equality California before his San Fran concert went on, but after someone in the audience gassed attendees with pepper spray, Buju says he’s definitely not going to make nice. (Nevermind that he doesn’t know who sprayed the gas.)

Says the singer: “This is a fight, and as I said in one of my songs ‘there is no end to the war between me and faggot’ and it’s clear. The same night after I met with [gay activists], they pepper-sprayed the concert. So what are you trying to tell me? I owe dem nothing, they don’t owe I nothing.”

So why’d he agree to the mini-summit anyhow? Financial pressure, yo: “It is not about boxing food out my mouth, if a that I would have surrendered to the system a long time ago. The mayor of San Francisco, or the mayor-to-be, claimed that I was in his district and that it was imperative for him and his organisation to meet with me to further see what kind of personality or character (I have).”

And lest you think Buju is going to make another effort to play nice with queers — activists “reportedly want the proceeds from Boom Bye Bye to be donated to J-FLAG” — he’s not: “Them come with demands which I and I a go flop dem right now, because give thanks to my culture and upbringing I coulda never endorse them things. I can’t sell myself out, neither would I do that in a thousand years. I love everyone in the world. I don’t love no special group from another group. There are other needy organisations out there.”

Maybe he doesn’t have to. Buju is already moving canceled concerts to other venues that will host him, and it’s not impacting his pockets. He says this American tour is his most profitable yet.

By:           editor editor
On:           Oct 16, 2009
Tagged: , , , , ,
  • 299 Comments
    • Clemburke
      Clemburke

      It seems to me that gays and straight liberals never get it. If you hold an olive branch out to a schoolyard bully, you expect a hug? How old are we? What we need to do is fuck these people over the coals and take them for what they got,,,is any one listning or is the disco music and cockatil blender to fuckin loud? bunch of pussies.

      Oct 16, 2009 at 2:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Orpheus_lost
      Orpheus_lost

      Is anyone surprised by this? Oh yeah, the posters who stood up for him as a poor, misunderstood singer who hadn’t said anything homophobic in years might be surprised. Those of us who didn’t grow up on a diet of meth and oxycontin kinda had this figured out already.

      Oct 16, 2009 at 2:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Orpheus_lost
      Orpheus_lost

      @Clemburke

      All we need are racist assholes like you spreading the contents of their diseased minds all over Queerty. I advocate you practice that murder on yourself with a very dull knife. And keep practicing until you get it right.

      Oct 16, 2009 at 3:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • afrolito
      afrolito

      @Clemburke

      His homophobia, and your pathetic racism. *sighs*

      Oct 16, 2009 at 3:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      See?

      He always does this. And now we have it on record: as of October 2009, there is still no end to the war between Buju Banton and faggots.

      Want to be mad at someone other than Banton himself? Eric Arnold of SF Weekly has been spreading lies about the situation for a month, including falsely identifying the person who sprayed the concert with pepper spray as one of the protesters at the concert. SF Weekly editor Tom Walsh refuses to apologize for allowing Arnold to make the Banton concert SF Weekly’s pick of the day for the anniversary of Matthew Shpeard’s death. And they have not updated their coverage of the story to include this.

      Oct 16, 2009 at 3:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kb in Maui
      Kb in Maui

      Amazing…. look at all the happy gay faces, especially the jerk in maroon. The knuckle bump… come on.

      This gay hater never once wanted to repair his image. Yet, all the people in this pic must have thought, wow, we’ve done something good and we’ll get lots of press and we can make pretty pictures.

      There are bigger fish to fry folks!!

      Oct 16, 2009 at 3:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • princess johnson
      princess johnson

      groups this & previously f*ckin glaad have propped up & valorized performers like buju banton & eminem w/their pious, 80s-style victim politics.

      buju banton has thrived like a vampire on the priceless notoriety you all gave him.

      drop it, girls- it ain’t working!

      be like mariah carey: “you on the job, you hittin’ hard;
      ain’t gonna feed ya, gonna let you starve”

      Oct 16, 2009 at 4:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      In light of this development, Belly Up Tavern in San Diego is considering canceling their concert. Give them a call, why don’t you: 858.481.8040

      Oct 16, 2009 at 4:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • princess johnson
      princess johnson

      quixotic!
      idiotic!

      Oct 16, 2009 at 4:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      Industrious!
      Hopeful!

      Oct 16, 2009 at 4:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • mikeandrewsdantescove
      mikeandrewsdantescove

      What a bastard! It’s obvious from his comments he can barely speak English. Karma is a bitch and your time will come.

      Mike
      http://www.cafepress.com/DrakeRock

      Oct 16, 2009 at 5:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • BobP
      BobP

      Now we know for sure. I didn’t believe all the “making up” nonsense.
      It’s time for Gays to declare war on him and other scum like him. There should be a concerted effort to squash his career in this country.
      It’s time to slap the bitch back.

      Oct 16, 2009 at 5:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Republican
      Republican

      Disgusting

      Oct 16, 2009 at 5:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      Bob and others similarly motivated: You can make a difference. You can put pressure on venues that still have concerts by Buju Banton scheduled:

      http://cancelbujubanton.wetpaint.com

      Oct 16, 2009 at 6:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • An Other Greek
      An Other Greek

      Keeping the pressure ON is the only thing to do…

      Either Jamaica will change, or the rest of the world’s perception of Jamaica will.

      Most people have NO CLUE how bad things are in Jamaica…

      The country’s leaders are coward and most pop stars ignorant and greedy.

      The tragic legend of colonialism and slavery, with a twist.

      “Emancipate yourself from mental slavery”

      —————————————————————–

      Oct 16, 2009 at 6:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cinci Chris
      Cinci Chris

      Orpheus_Lost and Afrolito, how were Clemburke’s comments racist? Is there something I’m missing? I don’t see him mentioning race in his comment at all.

      Oct 16, 2009 at 6:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sal(the original)
      sal(the original)

      BOYCOTT HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!AND ANY PLACE THAT HAS HIM MAKE SURE THEY SUFFER IN THEIR WALLET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!america is your territory you guys!as i said he will do this home but dont let him do that on your lawn!

      Oct 16, 2009 at 7:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dave D
      Dave D

      Oh Pul-eeeze! I’m sorry, I can’t seem to find that rat’s ass I’m supposed to give. As if this 3rd rate scumbag from a 4th rate country mattered in any way. I think assinine to give trash like this (read Rush, Pat etc) any notice at all. Once their agenda has been revealed, don’t give them any type of forum to spew their particular brand of hate.

      Oct 16, 2009 at 7:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • afrolito
      afrolito

      @Cinci Chris

      He called him a “tar baby nigger”. Pretty obviously racist, which is why Queerty deleted it.

      Oct 16, 2009 at 7:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • scott ny'er
      scott ny'er

      i agree with post #1 and see nothing racist in that post.

      i never drank the cool aid on that story and really, look at who’s smiling. Everyone but him. He’s a dirtbag.

      Oct 16, 2009 at 7:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • alan brickman
      alan brickman

      i supported his freedom of speech…but what a douche! now!

      Oct 16, 2009 at 7:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Orpheus_lost
      Orpheus_lost

      @Cinci Chris

      To go further, he he also advocated murdering Banton. Pretty vicious stuff all around.

      Oct 16, 2009 at 8:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • scott ny'er
      scott ny'er

      not that 2 wrongs don’t make a right but doesn’t buju advocate murdering gays?

      the racist comment of course is not cool.

      Oct 16, 2009 at 10:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • HayYall
      HayYall

      He sure made that fat bastard in the sweater look like an idiot.

      Oct 16, 2009 at 10:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Orpheus_lost
      Orpheus_lost

      @Scott ny’er

      Yes, he does, but I think you would have had to read the post I was commenting on to get the full picture. It was bad.

      Oct 16, 2009 at 11:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SamK
      SamK

      Buju Banton’s infamous song “Boom Bye Bye” says “gays must be killed’ and it calls for gays to be shot in the head, shot with an Uzi, have acid thrown on them and be burned like an old tire. This song has been controversial since it was released in 1992.

      In all those years, Buju Banton has never distanced himself from this song.

      For videos that show Buju Banton reiterating the anti gay statements in “Boom Bye Bye,” see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46PASiOjdP4 “BUJU BANTON FIRE BURN BATTY” and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZ8Z0biU_Zw “Elephant Man Buju Banton Shabba Ranks” In the latter video he refers to the churches and asks “What have I done wrong when I say that homosexuality is wrong?” With these words, Buju Banton is actually saying that he stands by the “kill gays” message of “Boom Bye Bye.”

      In Jamaica, there is tremendous violence and hatred directed at LGBT people. Buju Banton and some of his dancehall artiste friends must bear some responsibility for this. There are online reports by groups like Amnesty International and many other reports of this extreme violence in Jamaica. One very good account is in this Time Magazine article: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1182991,00.html “The Most Homophobic Place on Earth?” Britain and Canada have given asylum to a number of Jamaican gay men because of the extreme homophobia and violence in Jamaica.

      The Time Magazine article also has an account on the alleged armed assault on six gay men in Kingston, Jamaica, in 2004. Buju Banton was later arrested for this assault. Buju claims that he was “cleared” of the assault charges. http://www.gargamelmusic.com/artists_buju_time4.html In actuallity the case never came to trial. No evidence was ever presented to a jury. Buju was neither “cleared” nor “acquitted” of the charges.

      For more information see http://cancelbujubanton.wetpaint.com/
      and http://www.petertatchell.net/popmusic/buju-bantons-violations-of-the-reggae-compassionate-act.html

      Oct 17, 2009 at 12:23 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • scott ny'er
      scott ny'er

      thanks SamK

      and this is why if someone adovocates killing Buju, I’m like, sure, why not. He’s evil.

      @orpheus
      it sure sounds like that post was a doozy. But separating all of the post and looking at just the murder part. I don’t see anything terrible about it considering the “artist” in question. Vicious, yes, but fitting.

      Oct 17, 2009 at 8:47 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ras
      ras

      seriously, who the hell cares….why should we extend an olive branch to him? expect this fool to tolerate gays in one sit down? geez…

      he can’t even string a proper sentence. seriously.

      Oct 17, 2009 at 10:12 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Anthony in Nashville
      Anthony in Nashville

      The people pictured with Banton got played and were naive if they thought they were going to change his stance.

      It was nothing more than a PR stunt.

      I’ve never heard of a reggae act that was not homophobic. At best, they just don’t mention it in their songs, but everyone knows how Jamaica feels about gays and lesbians.

      Oct 17, 2009 at 10:49 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • alan brickman
      alan brickman

      No one should ban him….His Free speech means he should just be allowed to hang himself further….Reverend Phelps now has an “opening act”…

      Oct 17, 2009 at 11:00 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • alan brickman
      alan brickman

      Most activists are pretty stupid self promoters anyways…

      Oct 17, 2009 at 11:07 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • wmcarpenter
      wmcarpenter

      Pepper spray, eh?

      Oct 17, 2009 at 11:14 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Attmay
      Attmay

      He calls for our genocide but we’re the racists for calling this piece of breeder shit out on it?

      Oct 17, 2009 at 11:25 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Palto
      Palto

      I love how this stupid fuck inadvertantly promotes racism. Tell me how many of you think what a dumb nigger he is everytime you hear about him? Seriously.

      Oct 17, 2009 at 12:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • clark
      clark

      The questions he’s probably asking are:

      1. Why dem gay? Dem not gay. Dem CHOOSE gay.

      and

      2. Why me gay?

      Oct 17, 2009 at 12:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Orpheus_lost
      Orpheus_lost

      @Palto

      Hopefully only you think that, you racist trash. I will say that when I read your disgusting comment my first thought was, “I wonder how many sheep Palto’s fucked?”

      Oct 17, 2009 at 2:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Orpheus_lost
      Orpheus_lost

      @Scott ny’er

      Like I said, you would have had to have read the post. lol

      Oct 17, 2009 at 2:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      Deleting comments has confused some people. There have been genuinely awful remarks, calling Buju Banton racist epithets Queerty was right to remove, I will not repeat, and you can easily imagine.

      People want things to be black and white, in more ways than one. Buju Banton is an unrepentant homophobe. He is also beloved by many people. He is unreachable. Most of the people who admire him are not. Some of them are– homophobes like Eric Arnold who cry “Racist!” at any criticism of Jamaican artists, for example. Most of them, though, are, as the president irritates me by reminding us every time he talks about bigotry against us, good people with a blind spot.

      I want those good people to know that we are always standing with our arms reached out to them, ready to be their friends when they are willing to be ours.

      Jamaica views itself as a rape victim. It views colonial Europe as a big, bad gay gay man who fucked it over. That’s the deal with the murderous homophobia. It’s understandable. It will be forgivable when the people of Jamaica recognize that they have wrongly scapegoated gays.

      Boycott Jamaica, certainly boycott Buju Banton, but don’t give up on Jamaican people. That’s racist. Don’t attack people who are doing the hard work of building bridges. That’s suicidal.

      Oct 17, 2009 at 3:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Robert, NYC
      Robert, NYC

      I’m surprised Michael Steele hasn’t asked him to write a song for the GOP, I’m sure they’d love his music advocating for the killing of “batty” boys and girls. I’m sure he appeals to the likes of demagogues such as Rush Limbaugh and others. If he was advocating for the killing of ethnic groups or making slurs against religious groups, you can bet he’d be banned from entering the U.S. In our society its ok to bash and kill LGBT people and the perpetrators get light sentences. Look at that poor gay man in DC who was bashed and eventually died. The killer received only 180 days in jail. Go figure.

      Oct 17, 2009 at 4:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • princess johnson
      princess johnson

      landon, i like your post.
      very thoughtful & helpful!

      >>Deleting comments has confused some people. There have been genuinely awful remarks, calling Buju Banton racist epithets Queerty was right to remove, I will not repeat, and you can easily imagine.
      People want things to be black and white, in more ways than one. Buju Banton is an unrepentant homophobe. He is also beloved by many people. He is unreachable. Most of the people who admire him are not. Some of them are– homophobes like Eric Arnold who cry “Racist!” at any criticism of Jamaican artists, for example. Most of them, though, are, as the president irritates me by reminding us every time he talks about bigotry against us, good people with a blind spot.
      I want those good people to know that we are always standing with our arms reached out to them, ready to be their friends when they are willing to be ours.
      Jamaica views itself as a rape victim. It views colonial Europe as a big, bad gay gay man who fucked it over. That’s the deal with the murderous homophobia. It’s understandable. It will be forgivable when the people of Jamaica recognize that they have wrongly scapegoated gays.
      Boycott Jamaica, certainly boycott Buju Banton, but don’t give up on Jamaican people. That’s racist. Don’t attack people who are doing the hard work of building bridges. That’s suicidal.

      Oct 17, 2009 at 6:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      “Want to be mad at someone other than Banton himself? Eric Arnold of SF Weekly has been spreading lies about the situation for a month, including falsely identifying the person who sprayed the concert with pepper spray as one of the protesters at the concert. SF Weekly editor Tom Walsh refuses to apologize for allowing Arnold to make the Banton concert SF Weekly’s pick of the day for the anniversary of Matthew Shpeard’s death. And they have not updated their coverage of the story to include this.”

      Landon, you are the one spreading disinformation here. The account of the pepper-spraying incident has been updated with accurate information which clearly identifies the protesters as not responsible. And the weekend concert pick was for October 10–October 12 was a Monday, which technically is not a weekend–which also commemorated Indigenous People’s Day, a renaming of Colombus Day and refutation of colonialism. In case you are unaware, Jamaica was a former English colony, and many Rastafarians, including Buju, are descendants of the Maroons, a combination of indigenous Arawak Indians and escaped African slaves.

      In no way was the pick intended as a slight at Matthew Shepard’s memory, and seems like a transparent attempt to inject your own politics into a debate which has absolutely nothing to do with the tragic and unfortunate death of Mr. Shepard (R.I.P.), which may be of importance to you, but is not a national holiday.

      For the record, i do not support Banton’s use of a derogatory epithet in reference to queer activists, nor do i agree with homophobic content whatsoever in ANY music, whether its reggae, hip-hop, pop, country, or anything else.

      Considering that i have received death threats and been called a “homo hater” for merely providing relevant context such as Amnesty International statistics on violence in Jamaica and suggesting that queer activists pursue a legislative strategy which might actually improve conditions in Jamaica for gays and lesbians (which is what this whole debate is supposed to be about), it’s obvious to me at this point that queer activists such as yourself are not practicing the same tolerance and understanding that you preach. That is very disappointing, and shows that your own commitment to human rights for all is severely lacking.

      I challenge you to list any lie regarding Buju Banton or the campaign against homophobic lyrics which i have spread. In the meantime, it seems that you are willing to lie, bend the truth, and otherwise omit relevant facts in order to rile up your target audience. shame on you. Your own dishonesty and slanted viewpoint speaks volumes about where you are coming from. I’m not sure how you expose a “lie” by lying yourself or correct hate speech with some of your own, but you may want to take Michael Jackson’s advice and look at the “man in the mirror” before you get up on your high horse.

      One love, Eric Arnold.

      Oct 17, 2009 at 6:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      just one example of an additional lie you are spreading is that Banton receives royalties from the sale of the song in question–which has never appeared on any official BB album. that song was recorded before Jamaica had copyright laws btw, and BB does not own the masters, nor profit from its inclusion on compilations.

      you also conveniently omit the context in which the quotes were taken, in response to accusations of ‘selling out’ by Jamaicans.

      the fact is, i was at the meeting between BB and the LGBT contingent, so while all you have to go on is hearsay, i can relate what was said–and what wasnt–from first-hand experience. in fact, i took that picture, which is on your website and Petrelis’ as well, yet havent received photo credit.

      if i was a homophobe as you claim, why would i even attend the meeting? or talk with Rowe, Petrelis, Shorter, Dufty, and Mar? why would i have had a conversation with Pollo Del Mar outside the venue? or talk to Jim Strang (another of the protestors) and reiterate my solidarity for a human rights agenda?

      does that make any sense whatsoever?

      look, i understand your anger over what you perceive as an unrepentant artist–a flame fanned by 17 years of protest, despite the fact that of all the 8 artists targeted by OutRage, BB has made only one song with questionable–okay, indefensible–content, and has refrained from recording any other such material in almost two decades?

      dont you think it’s just a leetle bit racist for Peter Tatchell to compare Sizzla to Adolph Hitler–a man responsible for the death of six million jews? and what do you make of the fact that the Reggae Compassionate Act was drafted without any input from anyone int he reggae artist community? would you sign a document like that if you had no say in its wording?

      wouldnt your audience benefit from more factual analysis, rather than a mix of selective quotes and slanted opinion? that is, unless you dont want them to know the truth.

      you really should only cast the first stone if you yourself are without fault. it appears this is not the case.

      regardless, hate me all you want. i refuse to hate you back. in this case, the common enemy is ignorance.

      one love
      Eric Arnold

      Oct 17, 2009 at 7:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      “Tell me how many of you think what a dumb nigger he is everytime you hear about him? Seriously.’

      landon, i hope you will look at comments like these and realize that this is what you are breeding. racist, ignorant hatred. BB was wrong to use a homophobic slur, but two wrongs dont make a right. hate can’t erase hate. only love can. if you want buju to love gays, then gays have to love buju. if you can’t find any in your heart, you are no better than him.

      Oct 17, 2009 at 7:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wonka
      Wonka

      I actually think we should support Buju Banton, as Americans we should always show support of free speech let him have his voice.

      Oct 17, 2009 at 7:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      “Buju Banton’s infamous song “Boom Bye Bye” says “gays must be killed’ and it calls for gays to be shot in the head, shot with an Uzi, have acid thrown on them and be burned like an old tire. This song has been controversial since it was released in 1992.

      In all those years, Buju Banton has never distanced himself from this song.”

      this is absolutely untrue. buju has issued public apologies on at least three occasions. in 1992, in 2002, and again in 2007. also, it’s fairly clear that banton HAS distanced himself from it, as he has never again recorded a song with homophobic lyrics.

      this is a common misconception which is being used to fuel homosexual hate. i think the racist comments on here pretty much prove the point i’ve been making since 2004, when i first question’s OutRage’s tactics.

      please note that i’ve never questioned whether homophobia is wrong–it is–i’ve just wondered whether there was a way for queer folks to protest it without lapsing into racism.

      i just dont see how being hateful stops hate– a statement i would apply both to Buju and to those protesting him.

      one love,
      Eric Arnold

      Oct 17, 2009 at 9:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • scott ny'er
      scott ny'er

      @EA

      You said “this is absolutely untrue. buju has issued public apologies on at least three occasions. in 1992, in 2002, and again in 2007. also, it’s fairly clear that banton HAS distanced himself from it, as he has never again recorded a song with homophobic lyrics.”

      ======

      I think we’re going to need some proof. Say articles from respected news outlets. Otherwise I’m calling BS on this. Plus, doesn’t he still perform said song with the same lyrics.

      Oct 17, 2009 at 10:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason

      Buju Banton is a vile jerk who sang songs about killing gay people. Nuff said. He doesn’t deserve any forgiveness whatsoever.

      Oct 17, 2009 at 10:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason

      Just look at the photo. I’ve never seen a series of more forced smiles in my life. Buju has shaped his hands in what appears to be a penis pose.

      Oct 17, 2009 at 10:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SAL(THE ORIGINAL)
      SAL(THE ORIGINAL)

      DEAR EA DAHLING 1.HITLER KILLED GAY TOO,GET YA FACTS “STRAIGHT”
      2.BUJU SONG STILL PLAYS IN THE CARIBBEAN ALL DE DAMN TIME,IF HE’S ABOVE IT THEN WHY CANT HE TELL EM TO STOP PLAYIN IT?
      3. AND THIS WHOLE RACIST THING,WELL TIRED OF STANDING UP AGAINST MY BLACK BROTHERS AND SISTERS WHEN THEY HATING ON WHITE PEOPLE INDIANS CHINESE SYRIANS,WHEN I SEE MY BROTHERS SCREWIN UP THEIR LIVES BY NOT FOCUSING IN SCHOOL HATIN ON ME IN SCHOOL WHEN I FOCUSED ON MY STUDIES AND CALLED ME A WHITEY WHEN I DINT FOLLOW THEIR DELINQUENT VIEWS…WHICH THEY CALL ‘WE CULTURE’..WHAT THAT GIVE TO US??HUH??THIS!!AN IGNORANT MAN REPRESENTIN US TO THE WORLD!!!oy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Oct 17, 2009 at 10:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SAL(THE ORIGINAL)
      SAL(THE ORIGINAL)

      SO EA HOW DID YOU SPEND YOUR DIVALI??!!!HUH??DID D PRIME MINISTER DO WHAT OBAMA DO IN DE WHITE HOUSE???HUH??WHO DE HELL YOU CALLIN RACIST

      Oct 17, 2009 at 10:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SAL(THE ORIGINAL)
      SAL(THE ORIGINAL)

      EVERYTIME DE PRIME MINISTER OPEN HE DAMN MOUTH IS TO HATE ON PEOPLE..ITS DE BRITISH IS DE GAYS BLAH BLAH BLAH YEAH ITS DE GAYS WHO HA DE DAMN CRIME RATE SO HIGH….HAHAHAHAHHA

      Oct 17, 2009 at 10:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SAL(THE ORIGINAL)
      SAL(THE ORIGINAL)

      WHEN BUJU WANT SURGERY LET HIM GO TO AH LOCAL HOSPITAL HAHAHAHAHA YA KNOW HE GOIN ABROAD

      Oct 17, 2009 at 10:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SAL(THE ORIGINAL)
      SAL(THE ORIGINAL)

      LET ALL THE SMART PEOPLE LEAVE THE CARIBBEAN AND LEAVE ALL THE DELINQUENT WEED SMOKIN PUNKS TO SAVE DE COUNTRY DEY SO LOVE!!HAHAHHA DR BUJU!!!HAHAHHA WHAT HE MUSIC GONNA DO 4 U??

      Oct 17, 2009 at 10:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SAL(THE ORIGINAL)
      SAL(THE ORIGINAL)

      DELINQUENT PEOPLE WHO GIVIN MONEY TO CHURCHES THAT HA DE PASTORS DRIVING BMW HAHAHHAHAHHA PRAY FOR GOD TO SAVE YA FROM THE HELL DE CARIBBEAN BECOME ,RUNNING TO AMERICAN EMBASSY FO VISA TO RUN TO NEW YORK HAHAHAHHA.RUN TO BRITISH EMBASSY TO RUN TO LONDON AND DEN YA STILL HATE THERE CAUSE WHITE PEOPLE WEIRD

      Oct 17, 2009 at 10:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SAL(THE ORIGINAL)
      SAL(THE ORIGINAL)

      YA LIKE OBAMA BECAUSE HE BLACK BUT THEN WHEN HE SAY HE CARE ABOUT GAYS YA’LL HATE HIM ALL OF A SUDDEN HAHAHAHAHA WHAM A SMART BLACK MAN AN YA CANT HANDLE IT

      Oct 17, 2009 at 11:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SAL(THE ORIGINAL)
      SAL(THE ORIGINAL)

      sorry to all my gays ,forgive the caps,had to rant a bit

      Oct 17, 2009 at 11:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Joe Moore
      Joe Moore

      Bob Marley would be rolling in his grave if he saw what this ass hat was up to. He set the standard for these guys, speaking of love and peace in his music. Then these homophobic punks come in and wrestle reggae out of the hands of the true Marley followers.

      Now Reggae is filled with hate and violence, and it’s sad because it didn’t begin that way. He is creating a culture down there for gay men to be lynched and killed all the time. Which is one reason I will never step foot on that island again.

      Oct 17, 2009 at 11:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      “1992 saw the unsanctioned re-release of “Boom Bye Bye”, which almost destroyed his career.[3] The song was the subject of outrage in the United States and Europe, leading to Banton being dropped from the line-up of the WOMAD festival that year.[3] Banton subsequently issued a public apology.[3]
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buju_Banton

      the first apology, from 1992 or 1993, is noted in “Reggae & Caribbean Music” by Dave Thompson, (2002 Backbeat Books); pgs. 30-31.

      the 2007 apology is here
      http://www.ttgapers.com/News/2007/6/26/buju-banton-disowns-boom-bye-bye/

      the 2002 apology is actually Beenie Man as it turns out, which makes sense because Buju wasn’t even targeted by SMM until 2004, two years after the campaign started.

      note that “unsanctioned” refers to the fact that buju doesnt actually own the masters to the song and therefore doesnt profit from it. it’s also never appeared on any of his studio albums.

      my question is this: if buju is such a threat to human rights and has been since 1992 according to SMM, how come there was a ten+-year period (1993-2004) when he wasnt even on the gaydar yet released several albums and toured the US and abroad without incident?

      looks like Tatchell saw he could get some mileage from the media by including Banton, so he dredged up an old-ass song. at the very least, y’all have to admit there’s been no such recorded material from this artist expressing those sentiments since 1992. and even then that song was four years old at the time, so it’s really from 1988.

      again, not excusing the lyrical content. but dude was 15 when he wrote that. how would you like to be held accountable for something you did at 15 years old the rest of your life?

      Oct 17, 2009 at 11:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      “Bob Marley would be rolling in his grave if he saw what this ass hat was up to. He set the standard for these guys, speaking of love and peace in his music.”

      sorry to hijack this thread, but actually, this comment shows just how unfamiliar you are with buju’s catalog, which is nine studio albums deep at this point. a large portion of those songs (actually most of them from 1993-onwards) deal with peace and love, actually. “hills and valleys,” “destiny,” “untold stories,” those are all on a par with almost anything marley did.

      and speaking of marley, many of his songs actually deal with revolution, uprising, and political themes. what do you think “slave driver” was about, anyway? and if you knew your history, then you would know where you’re coming from. marley himself was the victim of political violence, as described on “ambush in the night.”

      the basic mistake you’re making is assuming that dancehall music made jamaica violent, when in actually, it’s always been violent–even in marley’s day–and always been gangsta. it’s just gotten more so as disparity between rich and poor has increased. the music from the ghetto reflects what’s going on in the ghetto, always.

      what’s ironic here is that with the exception of that one particular song recorded as i said at the age of 15, banton has been one of the strongest advocates against violence in the entire jamaican music industry. listen to “mr. nine” — which is NOT about a gay porn star, but a poignant plea against gun violence. he’s also one of the few independent Jamaican artists who currently owns his own label and thus is not subject to the dictates of that industry (which does put out some stuff that has little redeeming social or cultural value, i must admit). if he was just some nobody, i doubt Tatchell would have gone after him.

      I just wonder, had Tatchell reached out to Banton in 2004 and asked him in a respectful way to support a pro-human rights campaign, if we would be talking about any of this now? Reggae has always resisted against forces it has seen as “Babylonian,” whether its the legacy of colonialism, police, or Peter Tatchell.

      I’m not disputing that homophobic lyrics in any music are harmful. I just think there’s another way to go about it. when one tries to dictate to a foreign culture what it can and cannot do, and make demands which are disrespectful to that culture, one risks a backlash. Jamaicans are not known for backing down.

      it’s interesting that there aren’t any live clips on you tube of banton performing “boom bye bye” BEFORE the SMM campaign started and brought that song back into the public consciousness.

      here’s a letter which appeared in the jamaica gleaner today:

      “It seems as if 17 years after DJ Buju Banton sang Boom Bye Bye, the international gay community is hell-bent on destroying everything he does. He has already apologised; he refrains from repeating any such lyrics in his songs, yet the gay community is still not satisfied. Just recently they tried desperately to attack every show that he was set to perform on in the United States.”

      “Now gays are quick to cry out against discrimination, victimisation, and isolation, yet they refuse to forgive this man for over 17 years. How can you practise victimisation against someone and at the same time complain when it is against you?”

      “As talented a writer as Buju Banton is, there is no doubt he could have produced many more ‘wickeder’ songs than Boom Bye Bye. But he did not.”

      “Recently, he met with the gay community in San Francisco and they tried to make unrealistic demands on him, demands such as donating all the proceeds from Boom Bye Bye to local gay group J-Flag. This is not possible and seems more like an attempt to perpetuate the strife more than to resolve it.

      “Many people do not condone the gay lifestyle but that is no reason to advocate the killing of gays. Gays, in the meantime, should understand that their lifestyle is contrary to what most people have been taught and they should not seek to shove it down other people’s throats. We should respect everyone rights to do whatever they want as long it is in their own privacy and it is not forced on others.”

      http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20091017/cleisure/cleisure4.html

      the way public sentiment in jamaica is running, the real danger of this campaign against banton is that if it continues, it could actually result in a bloodbath against gays and lesbians in jamaica, ironically caused by a campaign by gays and lesbians in the united states on behalf of those same people.

      Oct 18, 2009 at 12:34 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      “Plus, doesn’t he still perform said song with the same lyrics.”

      i’ve seen buju live four or five times, i think…in 1995, 2005, 2006, and 2009. not once has he performed boom bye bye. i can’t speak for every show he’s ever done, but the YouTube clip from 2006 is a snippet from a larger monologue (not recorded)where he refernces the first tow lines, then talks of how he has moved on in his career.

      Oct 18, 2009 at 12:45 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      Eric Arnold wrote:

      “In no way was the pick intended as a slight at Matthew Shepard’s memory, and seems like a transparent attempt to inject your own politics into a debate which has absolutely nothing to do with the tragic and unfortunate death of Mr. Shepard (R.I.P.), which may be of importance to you, but is not a national holiday.”

      If you want proof that Eric Arnold is, like his hero Buju Banton, an unrepentant homophobe, there it is. Why, Mr. Arnold, is Matthew Shepard’s death of no importance to you?

      Also, please note that Mr. Arnold writes that the brutal slaying a of a gay man just because he was gay “has absolutely nothing to do with” protests of a performer who has called for gays to be murdered brutally.

      I believe you that the slight was unintentional, but it was a slight. For San Francisco publication, it was inexcusable. Both you and SF Weekly need to apologize for it rather than justifying it.

      I will detail Mr. Arnold’s actual lies from the SF Weekly coverage in a second post, but his most significant lie is one of omission:

      Why, Eric, do you never include in your coverage the fact that Buju Banton is accused of having been part of a group that broke into a house and beat a group of gay men in 2004? That is why the controversy over “Boom Bye Bye” blew up again that year: the guy who called for violence against gay men probably took part in it. A man lost an eye in the attack, and the victims say Banton was acquitted only because witnesses were intimidated into not testifying.

      You may have reason to believe the witnesses are lying and that gay men get fair treatment in Jamaican courts, but the accusations are credible enough that it is dishonest to leave out that part of the story when writing about it in the depth you have.

      Suggesting that Banton would have been open to Peter Tatchell in 2004 without even mentioning the court case?

      Shameless.

      Oct 18, 2009 at 2:04 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      1. Eric Arnold writes that the lyrics of the song “Boom Bye Bye” “appear to advocate the killing of homosexuals.” The words state directly that all gay men should be shot with Uzis and have acid thrown in our faces. To write as though there is any ambiguity about “Boom Bye Bye” calling for the murder of gay people is a lie.

      2. You repeat Banton’s management’s claims that he no longer performs the song in concert without mentioning the proof that they are lying.

      3. You quote McGregor’s management saying Banton “has spent an entire career making amends,” as though that were credible. He still hates gay people and says so: “There is no end to the war between me and faggot.” That is not making amends– it’s a war cry. It is saying he still believes in “Boom Bye Bye.” You know that. Why did you leave it out? Please never write about this issue again without including the fact that Buju Banton is adamant is his hatred of gay people. You write things like “What more can he do?” You detail the times he has apologized. Without mentioning that he has recanted each apology. How is that no dishonest, Eric?

      4. You reply to a commenter that Banton signed the Reggae Compassion Act without mentioning that he renounced it. You claim he has not performed “Boom Bye Bye” since signing it despite video evidence to the contrary and his own insistence that he did not sign it, even though his name is on it.

      Oct 18, 2009 at 2:38 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      I apologize for the third point in a row, but this is essential:

      The SF Weekly site does not yet contain any mention of the fact that Buju Banton has disavowed the meeting they are still trumpeting on their site. Eric Arnold has preferred to come over here and attack me rather than to update his own coverage with this very pertinent information.

      Eric Arnold wrote a version of the meeting which was very slanted in favor of Banton (compare his to that of Michael Petrelis if you doubt me).

      Then he lied and said that a specific activist was responsible for the pepper spray incident at this week’s San Francisco concert. In doing this, he repeated a pattern of repeating lies directly from Banton’s management which I had already discussed with the ditorial assistant at SF Weekly.

      Despite this lie and the questionable taste of making the Banton concert their pick for the anniversary of Matthew Shepard’s death–

      Despite the fact that I left a voice mail for editor Tom Walsh yesterday morning asking that they update their coverage to include the fact that Banton has again repeated his “There is no end to war between me and faggot” line and taken back any good will the meeting might have generated–

      SF WEEKLY makes no mention of this part of the story. Eric Arnold continues to slant his coverage in favor of Banton in a laughably dishonest, bigoted way.

      Why attack me here rather than updating your own blog, Eric?

      Oct 18, 2009 at 4:02 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      “For San Francisco publication, it was inexcusable. Both you and SF Weekly need to apologize for it rather than justifying it.”

      what are you saying here? you haven’t honored Indigenous Peoples Day. why should i apologize to you? if anything, you should apologize to me.

      “You repeat Banton’s management’s claims that he no longer performs the song in concert without mentioning the proof that they are lying.”

      I’m just saying, i’ve seen buju numerous times, never heard him do that song. move on, brah.

      “Please never write about this issue again without including the fact that Buju Banton is adamant is his hatred of gay people.”

      if someone makes war on you, what recourse do you have? i’m not Buju, so i can’t speak for him. but you are the one who seems adamant in your hatred. Buju tried to make peace. I know, i was there. y’all wasn’t trying to hear it. that’s on you.

      “You reply to a commenter that Banton signed the Reggae Compassion Act without mentioning that he renounced it. ”

      i’m glad you brought that up. i did some research on that. the act is fraudulent; the signatures obtained are forgeries. no reggae artist was invited to participate in discussions surrounding the language–if you look on tachell’s website, there’s no artist management, just foreign promoters. sorry, but the RCA isn’t credible. personally, i don’t have a problem with the act, its provisions, or its language, but that’s just me. i can see where artists felt like they were being dictated to without their consent. basically, that act is a joke from the way tatchell went about it. he should have had discussions with artists direct. prove the authenticity of the signatures and then we’ll talk.

      “Eric Arnold wrote a version of the meeting which was very slanted in favor of Banton (compare his to that of Michael Petrelis if you doubt me).”

      oh this is good. petrelis’ account is a joke. he has zero quotes. not one. i have notes on what was said–by him, dufty, shorter, mar, rowe, everybody. and buju’s quotes. you just wait til i drop that. you want to talk about a liar? petrelis said buju rejected all demands. not true. petrelis didnt know buju had an AIDS foundation since 1994. yet he demanded buju contribute to an AIDS charity. then his report conveniently forgets to mention that. none of the LGBT activists there knew the song was written in response to a case of mann-boy rape. petrelis didnt report that. he has no credibility outside of the gay world. how are you gonna write a factual account of the meeting and have no quotes? petrelis had no background on the issue, no substantive questions. he’s suspect anyway from what i hear, he’s worked against AIDS research in Africa. Buju contributes to numerous charities in Jamaica and doesn’t seek publicity for it. you wan’ test? yu dun kno.

      by the way, landon, i’m not attacking you. i was just scrolling through cyberspace when i came acros your attacks on me. despite your animosity toward me, i don’t hate you. you can’t make me hate you. my God is a God of love.

      you choose to answer what you choose to answer, but your responses are starting to get emotional.

      listen: no disrespect to Matthew Shepard. for real. no innocent life should be lost, in Jamaica, in America, in Africa, in the world, feel me?

      don’t make this more than it is. you want to fight a war of hate. i’m not about that.

      go back and check the links i provided. see that what i’m telling you is correct. end the conflict. be at peace with yourself.

      Oct 18, 2009 at 5:43 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • mb00
      mb00

      fuck ‘em…if he put down the weed, maybe he’s mind wouldn’t be so clouded with hate. Kinda makes their “One Love” motto an oxymoron.

      Oct 18, 2009 at 6:03 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      “That is why the controversy over “Boom Bye Bye” blew up again that year: the guy who called for violence against gay men probably took part in it. A man lost an eye in the attack, and the victims say Banton was acquitted only because witnesses were intimidated into not testifying.”

      not trying to gloss this one over, but you do need to cite references here, as i have done. you say ‘probably’, but that’s a bit short of ‘without a reasonable doubt’. where are the witness statements, the physical evidence, etc.? is there anything conclusive linking banton to the attack?

      can you clear this up? also, did the alleged attack happen before or after the SMM campaign expanded to include Banton? i know Tatchell went on a frenzy over this for 2 years, but…without evidence, you can’t assume guilt.

      i’d like to know, if you have more information, as i havent found anything other than he was acquitted and that other defendents may have been convicted. any proof he was there?

      “I left a voice mail for editor Tom Walsh yesterday morning asking that they update their coverage to include the fact that Banton has again repeated his “There is no end to war between me and faggot” line and taken back any good will the meeting might have generated”

      i’d say there was very little good will to be had from petrelis. he had his mind made up. the others seemed more optimistic. btw, it was Dufty who called the meeting, he got it done. much props to him. but petrelis is a hard-liner. not easily convinced, i’ll give him that. but plays by his own rules. not the most ethical guy out there.

      btw, my jamaican sources tell me buju was trying to be PC with that term. it doesnt play well in america, i know, but apparently ‘batty boy’ is the really derogatory phrase in jamaica. not trying to rub it in, just saying, there are cultural differences here.

      what you all have to realize is for buju even to sit down with gay people, shake hands, etc., is big. he faced a huge backlash in his country just for doing that. and for what? what did he gain? every canceled show has been rebooked. shows are selling out. he didnt need gay approval, he sought it because he was tired of fighting. the gays couldnt make peace, he says, oh well, this is what it is. remember he’s from a warrior culture–his grandmother was a full-blooded Maroon. those people dont back dont from a fight. ever. it’s not like the LBGT folks had the power to call off the boycot, anywayt. Petrelis actually called for it after the meeting, before the concert. there was no good will from him, and he’s been the one getting his version of the story out–with the photo i took!!! how ironic is that?

      Oct 18, 2009 at 6:10 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      Eric:

      I think Time Magazine is credible enough as support that Banton was very likely involved in attacking a group of gay men:

      http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1182991,00.html

      You keep writing as though the song “Boom Bye Bye” were the only issue gay men had with Banton. This is obviously dishonest. Please stop doing it.

      I love the fact that you dare lecture me after libeling a gay activist in your blog this week. You are a liar– it’s a fact. You reported that someone committed a crime(pepper spraying Banton’s audience) they did not commit on the word of Banton’s management, despite years of evidence that they lie every time they talk about gay people. And your apology to that person was limited to the “inconvenience” you caused.

      I am not a fan of Michael Petrelis, and I assume everyone knows that his account is biased, since he was one of the participants in the meeting. The thing is, you status as an SF WEEKLY reporter indicates that your account of the meeting should be unbiased, or you should disclose your bias to readers. You left out the fact that Banton denied all requests made by the gay people. You did that in order to slant the story in favor of someone you agree with. You choose not to update your story to include the fact that he has recanted the meeting. You do that in order to suppress the extent of Banton’s bigotry.

      I am well aware with the problems with the Reggae Compassion Act. You are the one who stated as fact that Buju Banton signed it. You were either deliberately lying or writing without doing any research.

      You want me to believe that gays are the aggressors, that Banton is the picked on victim. Then you tell me he is trying to be PC by using the word “faggot.” As though saying he is at war against us isn’t hateful enough.

      Look– if anyone else thinks there is merit to any of Eric Arnold’s accusation against me or defense of himself of Buju Banton, let me know and I’ll refute whatever specific points someone other thanEric and I might care about. Otherwise, just now the guy’s a homophobic racist who has been defending Buju Banton for years.

      Oct 18, 2009 at 10:27 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • scott ny'er
      scott ny'er

      I’ve gotta say. I’m totally getting bias in Eric Arnold’s reporting. And I’m a little surprised that SF Weekly would staff someone like that. But, whatever. Yet another thing in the world to disappoint me.

      And I do tend to believe Time magazine to be a credible source.

      Oct 18, 2009 at 10:52 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      “I think Time Magazine is credible enough as support that Banton was very likely involved in attacking a group of gay men”

      I saw the time piece. it did mention banton’s name several times, and interviewed one of the victims, who repeated his claim that banton was responsible, though it only id’d him by first name, but offered no new concrete evidence to dispute the court’s finding. besides the accusation, he didnt provide any other details. charges against banton were dropped after a one-year investigation, while suspects were arrested in both the john terry and brian williamson cases (the latter resulting in a 15-to-life sentence).

      i’m not taking this lightly at all, just wondering if there was any actual physical evidence out there beyond this conclusively linking banton. i dont know personally for a fact if he was or was not responsible.

      i actually thought the guardian piece from 2004 painted a far more complete picture of the situation in jamaica.

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2004/dec/10/gayrights.popandrock

      that piece gets to the crux of the matter: the protest campaigns have not been effective whatsoever in changing jamaica’s culture.

      “You left out the fact that Banton denied all requests made by the gay people. You did that in order to slant the story in favor of someone you agree with. You choose not to update your story to include the fact that he has recanted the meeting. You do that in order to suppress the extent of Banton’s bigotry.”

      not true. he didnt deny all demands. petrelis asked him to donate to an AIDS charity. he told Petrelis he’d had a foundation for HIV+ kids in jamaica since 1994. that’s a pretty significant disclosure for petrelis to omit. petrelis asked for donations from the song to go to J-FLAG. banton said he didnt profit from the song (which is true since he doesnt own the rights). the other two demands were that he record a song called ‘i love gays’ and hold a town hall meeting affirming his support for gay rights in jamaica. neither of which i would call reasonable.

      for the record, i don’t “agree” with banton. i have a different viewpoint from him on many things. for one thing, i dont come from a homophobic culture, and i’m not a Rastafarian.

      i’m sorry if you see my attempts to reason with you as bias.

      now i’m a homophobic racist?

      all-righty then.

      Oct 18, 2009 at 11:51 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      btw, anyone seen jasmyne cannick’s latest blog?

      if not here it is:
      http://www.jasmynecannick.com/blog/?p=6450

      ” in the past I have led protests against reggae artists with a history of homophobic lyrics performing in the States, and in the future, I may again. But while I was aware of the Los Angeles Buju Banton concert, it was unclear whether or not Buju Banton was going to be performing any of the songs in question, and for me that’s a critical part of the equation.

      On the other hand, I say this because at some point, the gay community has to give people a chance to show that they have changed, i.e. the protests worked. While the gay community wants to be accepted and understood in their fight for change, they at times are very unwilling to accept change in others, even after they initiated said change.

      Case in point, it’s no secret to Buju Banton and other reggae artists that certain lyrics just aren’t going to be tolerated here in America. In other words, if they want to get booked in America, they don’t have sing about loving gays or even personally like gay people, but they cannot sing about killing them. Furthermore, given the amount of performances that have been cancelled in the past because of their homophobic lyrics coupled with today’s economy, I find it hard to believe that Buju Banton would risk performing any song that might endanger his engagement with Live Nation and the check that goes with it.

      So before lobbying for the cancellation of Buju Banton’s shows, the gay community should have explored whether or not he was going to even be performing the songs in question. Because if he wasn’t going to be performing any of the songs that are considered homophobic, then job well done. He got the message.”

      discuss amongst yourselves.

      Oct 18, 2009 at 11:59 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • AlwaysGay
      AlwaysGay

      Eric K. Arnold is doing what many heterosexuals do which is to threaten gay people and play the victim. He wrote if the boycott of Buju Banton conitnues there will be a bloodbath against gay people in Jamaica. The Jamaicans didn’t need a boycott as a reason to hate and kill gay people, they already hated gay people long before this boycott started so don’t act like they were innocent. Then he makes Buju out to be the victim. Once again we read (or hear) about the “rich, white gay people and picking on a poor (millionaire) black person” defense. Buju Banton needs to be held accountable just like Rush Limbaugh and barred from the U.S. until he demonstrates compassion and understanding of gay people humanity.

      Oct 18, 2009 at 12:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      Eric:

      Again, the accusations are credible enough that it is dishonest to leave them out of your reportage, especially when you repeat the lie from Banton’s management that the protests sprang up spontaneously with no provocation from him in 2004. Please stop doing this.

      Please do share your notes on the meeting. I would like to know what effort at peace Banton made. You say the demands made by gay rights activists were unreasonable– what reasonable counter-offer did he make that you are both ignoring? Or do you think his position of hatred against us is acceptable because of his religious beliefs? Where is a good faith effort on his part to stop influencing his fans to discriminate against gay people? He owes us no less than that after “Boom Bye Bye.” If you disagree, why?

      The proof of your racism comes from accusing people like me of racism for protesting Buju Banton rather than Eminem or Axl Rose. First off, I have protested Eminem and taken to task gay rights advocates who have been too willing to forgive him. It’s racist of you to assume otherwise, isn’t it? More troublingly, can you honestly see no difference between Eminem and Buju Banton other than the color of their skin? That’s racism, Eric.

      Please, Eric– where are the lyrics written by either Eminem or Axl Rose that state directly and repeatedly that gay men should be murdered in the most painful and violent ways imaginable? Where is the video of Buju Banton making up for his anti-gay past by performing with gay icon Elton John, something both Eminem and Rose have done? Where is Banton with Bruno’s ass in his face? Where are the gay people willing to tell journalists that Eminem and Axl Rose beat them so badly they feared for their lives? These are not fair comparisons by any means, and it is cruel to attempt to silence gay people’s honest anger at people who want us dead by labeling us “racist.”

      Oct 18, 2009 at 12:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      Thank for the update on Jasmyne Cannick, Eric. Has anyone else been waiting for this? Since leading the protest against Banton in 2006, Cannick has decided that gay white men are the great Satan, responsible for all the evils in the world. She managed to find put a horrifically racist gay performer out of business by doing this, which is good. She also promotes hatred between gay people and African American people, which is bad.

      I expected Cannick to come out in favor of Banton earlier– I guess she will get most publicity by waiting until it is a local issue.

      Cannick is a lesbian, so she is not exactly homophobic, but many of us here know that she has written many more hateful things about gay white men than Buju Banton has ever sung.

      And, of course, Cannick is obviously wrong in giving Banton the benefit of the doubt: he has repeated that there is no end to the war between he and faggots. There is not good will on his part– the protesters are right. Without all of this attention, does anyone doubt he would have performed “Boom Bye Bye” already on the tour? He’s still pretty likely to slip it in on one of his last dates, if he continues to stay true to form.

      Oct 18, 2009 at 12:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      “Buju Banton needs to be held accountable just like Rush Limbaugh and barred from the U.S. until he demonstrates compassion and understanding of gay people humanity.”

      ok so apologizing, not performing the song, meeting with LGBT groups, and saying “i dont condone violence against any human being — and this includes my gay brothers and sisters” doesn’t count as compassion, tolerance, and understanding?

      for banton even to refer to gay people as “brothers and sisters”–to a Caribbean audience, no less–is huge. this was in 2007. so it’s apparent that banton was taking steps away from a purely homophobic stance well before his current tour started or the meeting in san francisco.

      Oct 18, 2009 at 12:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      “The proof of your racism comes from accusing people like me of racism”

      of course. because white people are NEVER racist.

      gotta love this line of reasoning. i guess that makes the black people who protested the KKK racist, by that logic.

      landon, when did i accuse you personally of being racist? if memory serves correctly, you accused ME of racism, just a few posts back.

      Oct 18, 2009 at 12:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      And again, Eric, you write as though Banton has not repeatedly claimed not to wish harm to anyone, including gays, then followed that by saying that he didn’t mean it and there is no end to the war between him and faggot.

      You have a bad, bad habit of blaming the victim. It is not the fault of gay people that he has repeatedly gone back on his promises. I am no more responsible than you for colonial oppression in Jamaica. Please stop writing as if I were.

      Oct 18, 2009 at 12:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      http://blogs.sfweekly.com/shookdown/2009/09/horrorcore_rap_murder_suspect.php

      In the comments to this piece Eric Arnold accuses me of racism:

      “That you see no difference between Buju and SKR speaks volumes about your racism, myopia, and inability to grasp the finer points of an issue.”

      Oct 18, 2009 at 12:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      “you repeat the lie from Banton’s management that the protests sprang up spontaneously with no provocation from him in 2004.”

      actually i said no such thing. i asked you if you knew when in 2004 the SMM campaign targeted banton. my recollection is that he was included on the hit list before the allegations of his involvement in the attack came to light.

      i went to the outrage/peter tatchell site but couldnt find a timeline. so again, do you have this info?

      Oct 18, 2009 at 12:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      also you mentioned interviews with witnesses. i presume you were referring to something other than the time piece? you got this, or no?

      Oct 18, 2009 at 12:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      Eric, you wrote:

      “my question is this: if buju is such a threat to human rights and has been since 1992 according to SMM, how come there was a ten+-year period (1993-2004) when he wasnt even on the gaydar yet released several albums and toured the US and abroad without incident?”

      I don’t have a timeline for 2004, nor do I feel obligated to provide one. By your own admission, the campaign started in 2002. Even if he were targeted before beating a group of gay men nearly to death, I think the accusations stuck and people stayed angry at him because of the very credible accusations of violence.

      Why would I need more than the Time magazine piece to support what I say? You’ve provided no evidence that contradicts it, have you? There is none, is there?

      I love the way you focus on a fine point in order to avoid acknowledging the truth of your dishonesty in comparing Eminem to Buju Banton.

      Oct 18, 2009 at 12:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      ah, ok..you were the guy who poked up in the Syko Sam case popping off about buju and john terry. now it all comes back to me.

      well, yeah, in that instance, you were being racist.

      just to refresh your memory, Serial Killin Records’s entire catalog is filled with Satanic wigga rap–it’s actually Satanic–filled with disturbing references to rape, murder, torture, occult rituals, suicide, crimes against religion, etc. –which led directly to the recent slayings of four people

      buju on the other hand has exactly one song out of a 21-year career with homophobic content.

      i know what you’re going to say: well, mobs chanted boom bye bye after the body of brian williamson was discovered, so buju’s music directly influenced homophobic murder. nope.

      there’s a big difference, actually. Syko Sam was actually an employee of SKR at the time of the murders, and made records which seemed to foreshadow his own psychopathic rampage (i would post the link,but it’s a terrible song, frankly). the label owner has a video which depicts the ritual sacrifice of jews, muslims, christians, and catholics.

      buju has never made a video depicting gay-bashing, which would be the equivalent, i suppose.

      in williamson’s case, the song wasnt referenced until after the fact. i’ve yet to find another case of the song being referenced during an actual homophobic attack, despite Tatchell’s rhetoric.

      landon, i’m going to have to stick to my earlier comments. you do seem to have an inability to grasp the finer points of an issue. there is a certain amount of myopia in how you are approaching this. as for the racism, well…your comments speak for themselves.

      “Where is Banton with Bruno’s ass in his face?”

      LOL. almost missed that one.

      so this is what you really want to see, huh?

      alright, dude. i had hoped we could map out some common ground and maybe find some things to agree on. it’s not looking like that’s gonna happen…

      Oct 18, 2009 at 1:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      “I don’t have a timeline for 2004, nor do I feel obligated to provide one. By your own admission, the campaign started in 2002.”

      there are two campaigns: OutRage’s targeting of dancehall artists, which began in 2002, and the SMM campaign which is when Outrage linked with JFLAG and another gay rights group and came up with their 8 targeted artists, which started in 2004.

      Oct 18, 2009 at 1:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      Eric,

      I can see you disagreeing about the comparison between the two artists, but where is my racism? I see both Syko Sam and Buju Banton as irresponsible artists and accused criminals. I’m not defending one based on his color– you appear to be doing that.

      I want Buju Banton to make the sort of effort Eminem has to make up for an anti-gay past. You choose to make zero in on my own joke to belittle thayt request.

      Again, it will be obvious to anyone with the patience to read this that you are a racist homophobe.

      Good luck getting published in the future.

      Oct 18, 2009 at 1:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      good luck to you as well.

      Oct 18, 2009 at 1:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Anonymous
      Anonymous

      Seriously. I hope a piano falls on your head you hateful piece of poop.

      Oct 18, 2009 at 1:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      ah, more “tolerance” from the gay community.

      landon, if all you’re breeding is hate and racism (evident in many of the comments on this board), how does that make you any better than what you claim buju banton is?

      Oct 18, 2009 at 2:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      Eric:

      You should know enough about the history of civil rights to know that any time a minority stands up to a bigot like Buju Banton it is labeled intolerant.

      I guess you don’t really think I’m a racist, do you, or you wouldn’t think racist comments would bother me. Of course, I’ve already called out racists in this thread, in terms much stronger than you have ever used in condemning calls to violence against gay people. Check comment 38.

      You have proven yourself willing to outright lie in order to attack gay people and defend an outrageous homophobe. That’s hateful behavior which has gotten legitimately angry responses. Hating you because you hate us is not racism, Eric.

      Oct 18, 2009 at 3:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Chitown Kev
      Chitown Kev

      “if you want buju to love gays, then gays have to love buju.”

      I don’t want buju’s love nor do I want him to love me. Gays don’t have to do any such thing, that sounds like some of jasmyne’s cannick’s shit.

      He needs to be called out for the bigot that he is.

      Considering that gays of my complexion (I’m black, by the way) would be the likely targets of his murder music I cannot and will not tolerate him one bit.

      Nor will I protect him because of the color skin his skin. I think that black gays that do this continually (protect straight blacks and their homophobia) are scum.

      I think that white gays that choose to call Buju and those of his ilk racial epithets (I’m late for that particular party, I see) are equally as ignorant. I won’t protect you, either.

      That’s it for me, I’ve gotta a lot of work to do and there are 16 days until the election. I don’t have time for nonsense like buju’s and clemburke’s.

      Hello from Maine to Landon, Afrolito, Anthony in Nashville, and all my queerty peeps.

      Oct 18, 2009 at 4:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason

      The only reason he disowned the anti-gay song was because he was caught. We caught him. He’s afraid of our boycott and the repercussions for his popularity. He may have thought “yeah, well, nobody likes gays anyway, so I can say whatever I like about them”.

      He’s a bigot from Jamaica. He should be called as such.

      Oct 18, 2009 at 5:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sal(the original)
      sal(the original)

      MR ARNOLD IS A PERSON WHO IS IN HIS LITTLE TOWER READY TO STAND UP AND DEFEND A MAN AND A CULTURE HE HAS NO CLUE ABOUT!!SHAME ON EM !!!!

      Oct 18, 2009 at 5:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sal(the original)
      sal(the original)

      GO AN LIVE IN DE CARIBBEAN AS A GAY MAN AN TELL ME MR BUJU MUSIC PLAYS NO PART IN THE HATE,TELLL MEEEEE!!!!!YA GO HEAR WHAT DEY BE SINGING BEHIND YA B4 THEY ATTACK YA

      Oct 18, 2009 at 5:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sebastien
      sebastien

      guys, guys, guys….Why not engaging a battle on the web. LET’S GO ON:

      YOUTUBE
      FACEBOOK
      DAILYMOTION
      MYSPACE

      …And let’s spread the words that he’s gay but rather bash gays in lyrics than admitting it. Let’s say that we looove his music and we fantasize on him.

      That should drive the guy and his fans a bit crazy!

      I start .

      Oct 18, 2009 at 5:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sebastien
      sebastien

      Let’s TWITTER the BUJU Bitch and spread his gayness all over the web!

      Oct 18, 2009 at 5:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sal(the original)
      sal(the original)

      THE YOUNG PEOPLE FEEEEEDD OFF OF THIS CULTURE,THIS IS HOW DEY DEFINE THEMSELVES .HELL THEY HAVE LITERAL WARS OVER PEOPLE WHO LISTENIN TO ONE CONSCIOUS ARTIST OVER THE OTHER RIVAL ARTIST!ARNOLD MAN YOU DONT KNOW NOTHIN!!!!!!!

      Oct 18, 2009 at 5:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sal(the original)
      sal(the original)

      to all the people who stand up against buju who dont live in the Caribbean THANK YOU!!!you dont live in a culture that is saturated in his filth yet you stand up ,realizing how evil this man and his music is and how it affects us here

      Oct 18, 2009 at 5:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sal(the original)
      sal(the original)

      Buju cant hide anymore in this homophobic tolerant place,the world now knows who he is and he’s finally gettin the heat he deserves

      Oct 18, 2009 at 5:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sebastien
      sebastien

      please go and see his videos on youtube and make up story about him being gay. One comments after the others, the guy is gonna go mad!

      Oct 18, 2009 at 5:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sebastien
      sebastien

      THIS GUY WON’T STOP , WON’T LISTEN BUT HE CAN BE TURN INTO A LAUGHING STOCK… GO TO COMMENT HIS VIDEOS ON YOUTUBE AND FIGHT WITH HUMOUR AND GAY WITTINESS. SPREAD THE WORD: BUJU BANTON IS GAY!

      Oct 18, 2009 at 6:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • chikaBOOM
      chikaBOOM

      To everyone wanting to spread rumors about Buju .. fighting fire with gasoline is so Balloon Boy.

      ( my (your) god what a world I dare to live in )

      Oct 18, 2009 at 6:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sebastien
      sebastien

      @ chikaboom: did you hear about the guys he slept with in Jamaica?

      Oct 18, 2009 at 6:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason

      Maybe Buju is bisexual? I find that some bisexual men hate their same-sex side and express their self-disgust with disgust of others.

      Oct 18, 2009 at 6:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • BobP
      BobP

      EA-STOP saying that gays are not tolerant of others the way we insist they be tolerant of us.
      We will not tolrate hatred and violence towards us. You are an asshole if you keep repeating this republican mantra.
      Gays have been bashed enough. We will not take it or let it continue any longer.
      If this disturbs you, that’s too fucking bad. People like you created this situation and now it’s payback time.
      Get used to it.

      Oct 18, 2009 at 7:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • princess johnson
      princess johnson

      oh my gosh, too much.
      if you want to make the world a better place/take a look at yourself & make a change.

      Oct 18, 2009 at 7:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Gabriel
      Gabriel

      EA,

      “btw, anyone seen jasmyne cannick’s latest blog?” Well gee, if Jasmyne wrote something that agrees with your view and she’s a lesbian then I guess you must right. You’re like those right-wing idiots who quoted Elton John’s opposition to Gay marriage to support their position.

      Oct 18, 2009 at 8:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      Maybe Petrelis should just avoid anything to do with Jamaica at all.

      First he called for a boycott of Jamaica without consulting anyone and it blew up in his face.

      Then he wandered off to Buju’s Berchtesgaden to sign a treaty guaranteeing ‘peace in our times” only to find out that Banton is calling for the murder of all GLBT folk everywhere.

      jebuz, Neville Chamberlain had a better track record than that.

      Oct 18, 2009 at 9:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      people, people, can’t we all just get along?

      look i voted against prop 8, ok?

      let’s not lose sight of the focus here: dialoguing together toward a more humanistic reality.

      landon, you wrote: “any time a minority stands up to a bigot like Buju Banton it is labeled intolerant.”

      really?

      first of all, you’re not a minority. there are many more white gays in the US than there are black Jamaicans, statistically-speaking. get outta here with that BS.

      second of all, you’re not open-minded. i’ve got new information about more meetings buju’s had recently with LGBT activists–including some who attended his show last night and even smoked out with him–but i’ll just save that for people who are open to a civil debate and positive dialogue which moves forward.

      thirdly, gay people in america have it pretty good, compared to their brethren and sistren in the Caribbean, who are routinely abused by police. let’s keep that in mind.

      fourth, i live in a city–oakland, ca–which is extremely diverse, and by that i mean not just queer people, but queer people of color are accepted wayyyy more even than in San Francisco (which is actually somewhat segmented and segregated, if you must know the truth). i’ve worked on social justice and media justice campaigns involving queer youth who are learning to be activists. so it’s ridiculous to label me a homophobe, ok?

      i’ve never defended the lyrical content of boom bye bye. but the fact is that of every single jamaican dancehall artist currently around, buju is the only one who’s even taken the step of meeting with queer activists.

      if you don’t think that’s significant, i don’t know what to tell you.

      jasmyne–who i haven’t always agreed with, btw–is right that if the goal is to get buju to refrain from homophobic lyrical content in his american tours, you have already won.

      if you want to take the next step forward, a more tolerant attitude toward buju is actually your only hope of advancing a human rights agenda inclusive of all among reggae artists.

      this might seem obvious, but boycotting buju in america will not end homophobia in jamaica. it only breeds hate and racism.

      if there isn’t tolerance on both sides we can’t move forward.

      Oct 18, 2009 at 10:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      “Banton is calling for the murder of all GLBT folk everywhere.”

      this is wayyyy over the top. not even close to being accurate. any chance we can tone done the hyperbole? i know this is cyberspace and all, but buju said no such thing.

      and petrelis didnt offer him a treaty. i know, i was at the meeting–d’oh!

      btw, anyone read petrelis’ blog on buju’s former martial arts trainer, who weighed in from a gay jamaican perspective? (exactly what most of y’all dont have). pretty insightful, dead-on analysis.

      Oct 18, 2009 at 10:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Darcy
      Darcy

      He performed Boom Bye Bye in 2006. Doesn’t sound like he meant that apology in 2002, does it? He’s a dirtbag. And it sounds like he’s a little thick in the head as well.

      Oct 18, 2009 at 10:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lex
      Lex

      @ EA, thank you for making logical posts.

      “this might seem obvious, but boycotting buju in america will not end homophobia in jamaica. it only breeds hate and racism.”

      Best comment.

      I really think a lot of Queerty commenters have a screw loose. Most of them seem hellbent on making everything about race, making racial remarks that only serve to divide us(thus weakening our arguments for equality), and being too thick to see that their current way of expressing themselves is offensive.

      Oct 18, 2009 at 10:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian Miller
      Brian Miller

      Why give this loser any attention at all?

      He’s like Fred Phelps… Ignore his schtick and he’ll dry up and blow away in the wind.

      He’s certainly not selling anything based on the artistic merits of his “music,” which makes the ears bleed.

      Stop coddling him with attention, he doesn’t deserve it.

      Oct 18, 2009 at 10:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      Hi, Kev. Keep fighting the good fight.

      You’re welcome, Sal. I wonder why Eric thinks your perspective is unimportant.

      Bill Perdue is crazy, Eric. Nothing else to say, really.

      Eric,

      If you want to get along with gay people, stop spreading lies about us, like we aren’t a minority. Gay people are a minority in comparison to heterosexual people. We are targeted for harassment and violence everywhere on earth. You either don’t believe that that is really true or you think it is of no significance whatsoever.

      Again, you have lied repeatedly in order to attack us and defend Buju Banton. You show no tolerance– you are unwilling to differentiate between criticism of individual black people and racism. That you think anyone here will believe anything you write about Buju Banton is laughable. Yeah, you have super secret info that we’re just not good enough for. I’m sure your source is Banton’s management again, right? They lie every time they talk about gay people. That’s been obvious to everyone but you for years.

      Of course it’s significant that Banton has met with queer activists– see me arguing that point in threads here and at Towleroad if you doubt that I agree with you. It’s more significant that he then announced that he still hates us. Please stop leaving out that part of the story when you write about it.

      Once you start treating gay and lesbian people fairly in your writing, I will start taking your claims that you are not a bigot seriously.

      Oct 18, 2009 at 11:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • John woods
      John woods

      OMG dude, is this dude fer real er what??

      RT
      http://www.anonymous.ua.tc

      Oct 18, 2009 at 11:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • alicia banks
      alicia banks

      rabid gaybashers like buju are hopeless

      why bother????

      http://www.geocities.com/ambwww/reggae.htm

      alicia banks
      OUTLOOK

      Oct 18, 2009 at 11:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      Landon Bryce is a Democrat and a liberal. He likes what Lyndon
      Johnson did to Vietnam and thinks he’s some kind of a hero. He’s beyond repair.

      Oct 19, 2009 at 12:07 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      “Once you start treating gay and lesbian people fairly in your writing… ”

      jeepers, landon, do i have to pull up my interviews with deepickollective and me’shell ndegeocello to convince you?

      oh, and buju didnt use the word “hate.” don’t take this the wrong way, but is it possible you’re being a little too sensitive?

      Oct 19, 2009 at 12:11 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      btw, you don’t have to believe me. but what happened last night was probably more significant than the original meeting. petrelis and dufty didnt see a banton show, after all.

      all i’ll say for now is this: it’s important for concertgoers to know that not only will they not be subjected to hateful epithets, but that american reggae shows offer a safe, peaceful environment to music fans of all creeds, colors and–yup–sexual orientations.

      Oct 19, 2009 at 12:17 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • scott ny'er
      scott ny'er

      eric arnold needs to be given credit. He continues to come back here and discuss the issues that peeps keep bringing up. And he does seem like he cares what LGBT peeps are trying to achieve.

      i haven’t checked all the issues and sources so I won’t comment anymore about who is lying but why would EA continue to come back here guys? Unless he just likes arguing. ;)

      Oct 19, 2009 at 12:40 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Darcy
      Darcy

      EA, you say that “buju has issued public apologies on at least three occasions. in 1992, in 2002, and again in 2007. also, it’s fairly clear that banton HAS distanced himself from it, as he has never again recorded a song with homophobic lyrics.” Yeah, but he has performed that song as recently as May of 2006. So, how is anybody supposed to believe that he really means ANY of those apologies?

      Also, remember his comment quoted in this article. Banton said,

      “This is a fight, and as I said in one of my songs ‘there is no end to the war between me and faggot’ and it’s clear.”

      So, how does that reflect his commitment to his “gay brothers and sisters?” What a hypocrite.

      This is not a guy who wants to be anything but hateful to the LGBT community. And it’s not racist to call this guy out for his comments; it would be RACIST of me to AVOID calling him out because I didn’t want to be construed as racist. I don’t care what race the guy is.

      However, if you do want to talk about race, reverse the situation:

      If he was a white guy who had been videotaped performing or even “quoting” a song he had written about killing and throwing acid on black people (as recently as May of 2006,) he would NOT be getting gigs in the bay area. Imagine this white guy meeting with the NAACP and then saying “There is no end to the war between me and the nigger.” (I use the word “nigger” as he used the word “faggot.” Either one causes me to cringe as I type it, but they are of the same magnitude.) I would be outraged and I would boycott him immediately.

      I’m curious. Wouldn’t that situation compel you to do the same? And if it would, please ask yourself why the LGBT community is less worthy of your defense.

      Oct 19, 2009 at 12:45 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      “Yeah, but he has performed that song as recently as May of 2006. So, how is anybody supposed to believe that he really means ANY of those apologies?”

      this is a really good point. this is one i’m going to have to ask buju personally next chance i get.

      but if i was going to speculate, i’d say besides the personal contradictions we all have as human beings, there are cultural contradictions as well.

      that’s really what this whole thing is about, isnt it?
      the dichotomy between the irie vibe of reggae and the ugly homophobia of jamaica.

      (hey thanks guys, you’ve given me some insight.)

      darcy, let me address your point. first of all, there are many types of wars. in this case, it’s a war of words, not a physical battle. obviously, since that comment was directed at a jamaican audience, he’s speaking to jamaicans. all of jamaica is watching him right now. interpret that any way you want. second of all, ‘faggot’ is somehow less derogatory in a caribbean context than in an american context. jamaicans arent PC. apparently he was using the less derogatory of the two epithets he could have used. yeah, i know. big of him, right?

      okay, back to the war metaphor. sometimes you have to fight a war on two fronts. sometimes you have to use diplomacy. if buju appears more concerned with what gay people think than his jamdown peeps, game over. but if he continues to engage in meaningful dialogue on the DL (sorry, bad pun)with folks who can have a civil dialogue, progress is possible.

      i dont think he’s made a commitment to love gay people, otherwise he would have had no problem doing a dubplate for petrelis, right? FWIW, he made the ‘gay brothers and sisters’ comment after the last known snippet/whatever you want to call it of BBB appeared.

      ok, now, i’ve seen all the you tube videos of alleged BBB performances. part of the problem with y’all’s interpretation is there’s a bit of a cultural gap with people who are unfamiliar with dancehall reggae.

      so far there are two actual instances where he very briefly sings the first two lines–but omits all the offensive lyrics, except for “nasty man” which is jamaican slang for “child molestor.” the original was in reference to a case of child molestation, so that context has to be clear. he refrains from actually describing graphic violence, which was what people are so upset about, so in effect he has censored himself and returned to the song’s original context–his disapproval with child sexual abuse. anyone got a problem with that?

      then he goes into “Massa God World,” a completely different song (many of y’all probably dont know that)

      ok, there’s another video where he doesnt actually reference BBB, but stops the song and mentions a “batocracy”, or a gay-ruled government, which is actually pretty clever wording, but more social/political commentary than outright hatred. after all, an -ocracy is not a person.

      as far as buju’s relationship with the LGBT community, you have to understand he received death threats back in 1992. so it’s always been contentious. this is the first time in his life he’s actually had peaceful, constructive dialogue with queer folks. it should go without saying that’s a learning experience for him.

      i can understand the skepticism, but i’m gonna adopt a wait and see approach myself. it’s definitely going to be interesting, whatever happens.

      Oct 19, 2009 at 2:22 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TikiHead
      TikiHead

      Jeez, EA, he said that his war against faggots will never end. WTF with your endless defenses of the crazy closet case? And I am not defending any racists who posted above.

      Oct 19, 2009 at 2:54 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sebastien
      sebastien

      Buju banton is gay, repressed, but gay!

      Oct 19, 2009 at 3:56 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      Eric,

      Why is all your sympathy on the side of the guy who got famous by singing about killing us and none on the side of the people he sings about killing?

      Why did you claim that a gay protester committed a crime they did not commit at the San Francisco concert? Why did you believe Banton’s management when they lied and falsely identified that person, despite the fact that they lie about gay people every time they talk about us? You had enough experience to know better. I tried to warn you and your editors that you were playing fast and loose with the truth. Why did you accept their vicious lies at face value once again?

      How do you dare ask us to feel sorry for Buju Banton because he has gotten death threats since 1992? He started threatening to kill us in 1988. He started this war. He has the power to end it, and he chooses not to.

      You say did not use the word hate. True, he said, (again), “There is no end to the war between me and faggot.” That’s hate speech. It’s worse that actually saying, “I hate gay people.” It uses imagery of violence in an attempt to shut us up. It deliberately re-opens the wound of “Boom Bye Bye.” It is saying he still wants us dead. There is no other way to interpret it.

      Listen to the crowd reaction in the YouTube videos you claim are completely innocent. If you don’t hear the murderous whoops, you aren’t listening. Those performances are inciting the audience to violence and clear evidence that both Banton and his audience are unrepentant in their violent hatred of gay people. Watch again.

      Since you have no problem with Banton frightening his audience with his bigoted fantasy of a gay run government, I assume you also would have no problem with neo-Nazis who frighten their audiences by telling them Jews run everything. Or what difference do you see?

      Oct 19, 2009 at 5:29 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Darcy
      Darcy

      EA, if this were a white guy singing about killing and throwing acid in the faces of black people, this conversation would not be taking place. I would not hear you coming up with cultural explanations for why it would be okay for some hate-filled skinhead to say he was at war with blacks. I’m done.

      Oct 19, 2009 at 9:42 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Robert, NYC
      Robert, NYC

      Darcy, I totally concur. Further, there are many black racists too, people seem to forget that.

      Oct 19, 2009 at 10:22 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • terrwill
      terrwill

      Lets totally fuck with this scumbags world: Not only is Buju GAY, but he HAS A TINY COCK!!!! spread the small world!!!

      Oct 19, 2009 at 11:00 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jim
      Jim

      EA, It’s obvious you really like Buju and want to defend him, but come on now. You can’t expect us to try and understand the homophobic culture he comes from and grant him a pass. Again with the racial analogy, it’s like expecting Blacks in the 50’s (or today for that matter) to try to relate to White culture and feel for them and their motivations and history, and be “compassinate”.

      Oct 19, 2009 at 11:04 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jim
      Jim

      … and let’s assume for the sake of argument that it was indeed gay activists who pepper sprayed his concert. Does this justify re-establishing his “war” on all gays?

      Oct 19, 2009 at 11:58 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      “let’s assume for the sake of argument that it was indeed gay activists who pepper sprayed his concert. Does this justify re-establishing his “war” on all gays?”

      except i dont think he has re-established his war on the gays. i think he spoke to jamaican concerns to a jamaican audience. that has to be seen in context. if he had reestablished his war as you say, he undoubtedly would have launched into a homophobic diatribe onstage the first chance he got, right? instead he continued to meet with LGBT activists. so actions speak louder than words here.

      i’m not saying gay people should just grant buju a pass. but the civil rights analogy doesnt really work, either. there’s a huge difference between Peter Tatchell and MLK jr. and black jamaican culture is not the dominant culture, neither is gay american culture. also, the civil rights movement targeted a legislative strategy, OutRage’s tactics have not gone there for some strange reason.

      “if this were a white guy singing about killing and throwing acid in the faces of black people, this conversation would not be taking place. I would not hear you coming up with cultural explanations for why it would be okay for some hate-filled skinhead to say he was at war with blacks.”

      darcy, this is why there is a huge difference between buju and Syko Sam or Skrewdriver or anyone of that ilk. again, we’re talking not about an entire catalog of hate speech, but one song in a 21-year career. even in recent years, the BBB snippets dont include the acid throwing lyrics. i agree it seems like a contradiction given the rest of his material, but i also think it’s been entirely blown out of proportion by gay activist campaigns more interested in rallying people around a cause than addressing the roots cause of hate and homophobia.

      look there are many artists whose personal ideologies i dont agree with, from Ted Nugent to Dee Dee Ramone. but as long as the Nuge doesnt insist i join the NRA at his concerts, i’m good with that. again, context is everything here. one thing i’m not seeing from the gay side is any differentiation between metaphor and literal meaning. you take everything said by reggae artists at face value, even when its not necessarily intended that way.

      and landon, stop already with the neo-Nazi comparisons. that’s ridiculous. Hitler would never sit in the same room with jews and smoke a spliff with them.

      as far as my personal stance, i do have sympathy for the gay side. that’s why i’ve patiently endured your abused throughout this thread. i’ve i was unsympathetic i dont think i’d do that.

      please dont paraphrase me and put words in my mouth. if you’re so concerned about accuracy, you certainly have a strange way of showing it. from the beginning here, you have twisted and distorted almost everything i’ve said to make it fit to one of your points.

      let me be clear about this. this whole gay campaign against reggae is the work of one man: Peter Tatchell. tatchell thinks that gay human rights are somehow different from human rights. that’s elitism. he wants to lower the age of consent to 14 so he can sleep with your boys. that’s borderline predatory. he’s compared aertists who refused to sign a document they werent invited to participate in drafting “the moral equivalent of the KKK.” he’s gotten non-homophobic reggae artists pulled from store shelves along with the SMM music. that’s censorship. and he’s gotten government leaders in England to take all of his claims seriously. so that’s really what bantonis talking about–an ideology where somehow gay human rights are more important than human rights in general. ok, i’m done.

      Oct 19, 2009 at 1:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      sorry should be, “so he can sleep with young boys.”

      Oct 19, 2009 at 1:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      Eric has bought into the ultimate scare tactic lie about gay men: we all want to sleep with young boys. He uses it to trash Peter Tatchell. He uses it to defend “Boom Bye Bye.” It is further proof that all his claims not to be homophobic are lies.

      Note that he does not explain why he chose to accept at face value the report of Banton’s management that a gay activist was responsible for pepper spraying the San Francisco concert, despite obvious proof that the person spraying the crowd could not have been the person identified (not in full drag).

      Note also that SF WEEKLY still has not updated its coverage to reflect the fact the BAnton was declared war again on gays

      Eric, Peter Tatchell has nothing to do with current US boycott of Banton– he is furious about the meeting you were at last week, in case you didn’t know. It is a lie to say that one man is behind the whole thing.

      I remember hearing “Boom Bye Bye” in the 1990s, and thinking about how hard it was to resist dancing to this jaunty tune about murdering me. It is the most evil thing I have ever heard. I remember how sick I felt when I first read the reports of people in Jamaica celebrating the assassination of its leading gay rights activist by chanting that song.

      Once that has happened– your work has been used to celebrate an actual murder– you really lose the right to use war imagery against that group without being taken literally, don’t you Eric?

      A man who has called for gays to be murdered — a call which has been taken literally– has renewed his call for war on us. And you are on his side.

      I worked hard and helped get the San Jose concert canceled because I don’t want that hate in my town, not because of anything Peter Tatchell said or did.

      And look up the prefix “Neo.”

      Oct 19, 2009 at 2:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      landon, if i wanted to point out an obvious double standard, all i’d have to do is refer to your headline. buju didnt, in fact, spit in anyone’s face.

      “Eric has bought into the ultimate scare tactic lie about gay men: we all want to sleep with young boys. He uses it to trash Peter Tatchell. He uses it to defend “Boom Bye Bye.” It is further proof that all his claims not to be homophobic are lies.”

      not true. i would hope that most of you don’t, in fact, want to sleep with young boys. and, once again,landon, you are putting words in my mouth. i never said most of you, i’m referring to tatchell’s dubious argument for lowering the age of consent, which is posted on his website: http://www.petertatchell.net/age%20of%20consent/consent%20at%2014.htm

      kind of sickening, really, and makes one wonder what PT’s agenda really is. if he’s actually a child molestor, that’s as indefensible as banton’s homophobic lyrics.

      “It is a lie to say that one man is behind the whole thing. ”

      again, absolutely untrue. Tatchell was/is the driving force behind the SMM campaign. he’s also responsible for adding banton to his hitlist, after a decade of being off the gaydar and making absolutely zero music with homophobic ontent during that time. Tatchell pushed for williamson’s death to be characterized as a hate crime when it was actually a robbery-murder.

      http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20060521/news/news7.html

      while there are disturbing aspects to the circumstances of the crime–and indeed to the mob which chanted antigay epithets AFTER the body was discovered–technically, this stretches the definition of a hate crime to include anyone involved in an activist organization, whether hate was an actual motive for the crime or not. that’s a pretty slippery slope.

      (btw, there’s also evidence that john terry’s death may have been a crime of passion and the homophobic note found at the scene may have been intended to throw off suspicion. police found no signs of forced entry. so terry knew his killer.)

      that’s why there’s so much misinformation in what has been reported–Tatchell’s sometimes factually-challenged PR has been accepted at face value. once people start to do their own research, like Keith Boykin and Jasmyne Cannick, they tend to begin to grasp there’s a much larger picture than one would get just from Tatchell’s propaganda campaigns.

      for example, according to JFLAG, there were 30 gay murders in jamaica between 1997-2004. in 2007 alone, there were over 1600 murders in jamaica overall. some of those gay murders may have been crimes of passion. others may be due to police brutality. none to date have been directly linked to any dancehall artist.

      http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/editorial/html/20051209T210000-0500_94256_OBS_THE_MISPERCEPTIONS_OF_GAY_VS_HETEROSEXUAL_MURDERS.asp

      and while i dont have a problem with Tatchell wanting to eliminate homophobia in reggae, the problem is that he’s caused concerts to be canceled which have included non-homophobic reggae artists, as well as reggae music to be pulled from the shelves.

      as i said earlier, he’s played into white xenophobia and racism in England and America. the RCA would be a lot more credible if artists were included in the discussion over the wording, which they weren’t.

      any discussion over this issue has to include proper context, such as the official jamaican state position on homosexuality, which has held back progress and promoted homophobia, via jamaican political parties adopting antigay songs as their official anthems. it’s also hindered AIDS research and prevention.

      once again, i’ll point out that Banton made the first song promoting safe sex in jamaican history and that he’s has an AIDS foundation since 1994.

      i can understand the need to single out one person and hold them up as the symbol of hate, but the fact is one person is not responsible for the attitudes of an entire country.

      you say that banton’s call has been taken literally, but this is a distortion at best, as there is not even one antigay murder which can be conclusively linked to banton.

      as i said earlier, banton is making tentative, yet significant steps toward tolerance which has the potential to do what tatchell hasnt managed to do so far: change perceptions of homophobia in jamaica. for that alone, i think he should be commended. i dont think gays should salute him or convert to rastafarianism, and i fully support your right or anyone else’s to protest something you dont agree with–that’s free speech–but let’s not confuse perception with reality, ok?

      Oct 19, 2009 at 4:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      “I remember hearing “Boom Bye Bye” in the 1990s, and thinking about how hard it was to resist dancing to this jaunty tune about murdering me. It is the most evil thing I have ever heard.”

      i can feel you on that one. i remember dancing to it in clubs as well and not really paying attention to the lyrics. once i was made aware of that, it kind of took all the fun out of it. i can see how the sentiments expressed in that song can fuel bigoted perceptions–both of gays and of banton. i’m not sure what the solution here is. i’d probably support a campaign against VP records to remove the song from stores and destroy all known copies of the compilation it appears on, but that would be a pretty extreme step. in any event, banton himself doesnt own the rights to it and is not responsible for its reissue.

      but dont you think it’s interesting that beenie man–who has made many more antigay tunes than buju–played that same club in berkeley a week earlier and there were zero calls for protest?

      Oct 19, 2009 at 4:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      Eric,

      Tatchell argues for a progressive age of consent. He thinks that teenagers should be able to consent to sleep with people up to three years older than themselves. I don’t agree with him at all, but you stated directly that Tatchell wants to lower the age of consent because he wants to sleep with young boys.

      I see three possible reasons for you to write what you did:

      A) You did not actually read Tatchell’s argument for lowering the age of consent

      B) You think Peter Tatchell is seventeen years old or younger

      C) You were were being deliberately deceptive in order to smear Tatchell

      Is there another reason?

      And you have repeatedly excused the hateful content of “Boom Bye Bye” by saying it was inspired by a man/boy rape case. That it clearly also expresses violent homophobia related to pedophilia makes that inspiration insignificant as an excuse.

      You do not deny that “Boom Bye Bye” was sung at the scene of Brian Williamson’s murder in celebration of the fact that Jamaica’s most visible gay man was murdered. Please tell Buju, next time you talk to him, that that fact alone means he cannot say he is at war with faggots without there being legitimate fear that he will inspire more violence. Do you have any idea how callous you sound when try to excuse the song’s use to celebrate that tragedy by claiming that it would only matter if there were videotape of the song being sung by someone before the crime?

      If he cannot express his disapproval of homosexuality without violent imagery out of respect for Brian Williamson alone, Buju Banton is an evil man, isn’t he?

      And, by the way, the claim that the current boycott has not hurt Banton is another lie from his management that you are spreading. That every concert has been rebooked is an obvious lie– at least five concerts were canceled outright, and most that were rescheduled were moved to smaller, less centrally located venues. There are also several places that hosted Banton this year– the Rock-it Room and Belly Up among them– that have signaled that they are unlikely to work with him again after feeling betrayed by him.

      Last week, Eric, I was arguing that people should be praising Buju Banton for his progress and his willingness to move forward. I was very impressed with his willingness to meet with gay rights advocates, although I am deeply troubled that he may have been coerced into that meeting.

      In his interview, Banton says that the mayor (or the mayor to be) of San Francicso insisted on the meeting. That seems to be both an abuse of governmental authority and a dishonest expression of Dufty’s authority. I’m glad that ACLU is on the case to make sure that government authorities aren’t forcing Banton out. There is a difference between an economic boycott– which I am all for until he takes concrete action of some kind to help gay causes AND stands behind his expressions of solidarity with gay people for at least two years– and government censorship.

      I hope Buju knows that even gay people who think he really does want them dead also care about his freedom of speech.

      Oct 19, 2009 at 5:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tallskin
      Tallskin

      EA, you seem to have real hatred of Peter Tatchell, a man, who I point out, lives in a tiny little council flat on a grim estate and dedicates his entire life to fighting for gay and human rights issues, for no reward apart from the satisfaction of doing good.

      You call Peter a peedophile

      A racist

      An elitest

      And have nothing but praise for Banton.

      Lol, and get this, you say of the Banton creature that he is: “… making tentative, yet significant steps toward tolerance …&….change perceptions of homophobia in jamaica. for that alone, i think he should be commended. ”

      Are you avin a fuckin’ larf, lad??? He’s only concerned for increasing his income stream – his accountant’s brain fights his macho brain, and usually his macho brain wins out!

      You esteem a vile homophobe, that anal slime Banton, and abuse and insult a man dedicated to gay and human rights, Peter Tatchell.

      Your comments have a silky tongued smoothness that tries to convince us that black is white and that lies are truth.

      You say for example: “what do you make of the fact that the Reggae Compassionate Act was drafted without any input from anyone int he reggae artist community?”

      Urgh, yeah right just like a society makes laws forbidding murder or thieving without asking for the input of the murderer or thief “community”.

      How fucking unreasonable!

      Yawn, Peter T has been called racist by arses who want to go on being able to kill gays for decades now. Most recently he has been called islamophobic cos of his public arguments against bearded nazi nasties here in the Uk, so I guess it’s all water off his duck’s back.

      Oct 19, 2009 at 5:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      Thanks, Eric– I really do believe that you understand you hateful “Boom Bye Bye” is as a piece of music, but I think you underplay its role as inspiration: if that song weren’t such a work of genius, would “murder music” ever have become the potent force that it did? I don’t think so.

      But I think you show that we are fair, not hypocritical, in treating Beenie Man differently from Buju Banton. Correct me if I’m wrong, but he does not have the history of going back and forth that Banton does– once on the RCA, but we both agree that that document is so flawed it would be wrong to blame him for that. Once he said he would stop attacking gays, he stopped. He is clear that he disapproves of homosexuality, but he also has not used violent imagery in his music or public statements for years. Also, Beenie Man has not himself been credibly accused of antigay violence.

      Really, it’s a different situation. Which is another reason why it’s not fair to say that boycotts of this specific singer are motivated by racism.

      Oct 19, 2009 at 5:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      “I think you underplay its role as inspiration: if that song weren’t such a work of genius, would “murder music” ever have become the potent force that it did? I don’t think so.”

      good question. yeah it would be easier to forget it it wasnt such a work of genius as you say. and that does raise a good point, one echoed by Cannick in my SF Chron interview in 2006: “its effects live on.” i’m not disputing that. i am pointing out that buju has, in fact, moved on. not only has he made NOT ONE SINGLE antigay song, but he’s never even made another song promoting violence of any kind. that’s just a fact.

      however, Tatchell’s PR capaign, which has frequently overstated its case (when it really didnt have to, based on the actual significance of the issue he was raising ) has also resulted in a backlash. he brought that song back into consciousness, and all you have to do is go to youtube to see the predictably knee-jerk responses by jamaican dancehall fans.

      tallskin,i never called PT a pedophile. please dont put words in my mouth. you’ve got to admit there’s an interesting dichotomy in contrasting him and buju. and if he doesnt want to sleep with young boys, what’s his interest in lowering the age of consent? this might warrant fully considering the larger implications of the issue. if you lower the age of consent, it doesnt necessarily protect young people,it makes it easier for older people to exploit them sexually, with legal belessing. i dont see how this can be disputed.

      also, if you’re aware of the prevalency of child sexual abuse in jamaica and the number of poor youth forced into male prostitution due to economics, perhaps it becomes easier to understand jamaican attitudes toward homosexuality.

      i actually have respect for PT and for his doggedness in pursuing his activism. his strategy and tactics are something else. i dont know if you’ve ever visited his website, but he’s definitely trying to push the envelope in more ways than one.

      “a man dedicated to gay and human rights, Peter Tatchell.” ‘

      LOL this is a good one since Tatchell specifically sets “gay human rights” apart from human rights. he also makes a case for separating universal human rights and multiculturalism. in other words, he really has no agenda other than a gay agenda, despite his claims to the contrary. check his website if you don’t believe me.

      Oct 19, 2009 at 5:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      “it’s not fair to say that boycotts of this specific singer are motivated by racism.”

      not exactly what i said. i think that there are racial aspect to this issue, however. i dont think that can be disputed either. again, i refer you to Boykin and Cannick on this matter.

      Oct 19, 2009 at 5:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      should be “not only has he made NOT ONE SINGLE antigay song since BBB”

      Oct 19, 2009 at 5:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      btw, just finished typing up my notes on the meeting…

      what’s interesting is the LGBT activists dont specifically ask him to agree to anything, except for Petrelis.

      here’s another exchange petrelis left off his blog:

      MP: “do you see a monster in me as a gay man?”

      BB: “no”

      Oct 19, 2009 at 5:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      Okay, so you;re going with choice A– you did not actually read Tatchell’s argument. He says that teenagers should at the age of fourteen be able to legally consent to have sex with other teenagers. He makes this argument largely because consent laws are applied unfairly to gay people, as in the case of Matthew Limon on Kansas. Limon was sentenced to seventeen years for having sex with a fourteen year old when he was eighteen. Had he been heterosexual, his penalty could could not have been more than eighteen months. That’s the sort of thing Tatchell wants to avoid.

      Tatchell hasn’t been a teen for a long time. He obviously has no personal interest in lowering the age of consent as he suggests.

      Yet Eric Arnold still states conclusively that Tatchell wants to sleep with young boys. Eric, homophobic people always blame their homophobia on pedophilia. The Catholic Church does the same thing. The thing is– it’s a lie. Gay men don’t commit pedophilia more than straight men– check statistics form an unbiased source. We certainly have forced fewer people into lives of sex work in Jamaica than straight men.

      Oct 19, 2009 at 6:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason

      He may not have sung this song for a while but he made money out of it. His views haven’t essentially changed. And what about that violent incident in Jamaica a few years ago? Was he involved in that?

      Buju deserves no sympathy.

      Oct 19, 2009 at 6:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      “Do you have any idea how callous you sound when try to excuse the song’s use to celebrate that tragedy by claiming that it would only matter if there were videotape of the song being sung by someone before the crime?’

      look, i agree with you 100% here.

      well except for the videotape part because that’s not what i said whatsoever. you’re coming from left field on this one.

      what i did say is that the murder was investigated as a possible hate crime. evidence revealed it was a crime of acquaintance, and that murder was committed in the act of robbery. thus homophobia wass NOT a motive for the crime. what happened afterword doesnt change that. sad but true.

      Oct 19, 2009 at 6:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason

      Yes, I agree that Buju is like a black Fred Phelps.

      Oct 19, 2009 at 6:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      Eric, you trust the Jamaican police not to cover up anti-gay hate as a motive for murder a lot more than gay people who live in Jamaica do.

      Even if Williamson’s death was not a hate crime, and I’m not saying that it was, the fact that “Boom Bye Bye” was sung in celebration of his death would have spurred its writer to take some compensatory action by now if he were not an evil man. His song was used to celebrate not only the death of a human being, but that person as a symbol of a class of human beings. How can he not have been moved by that to do something for gay people? How can he continue– after he knows people that love violence against gay people DO associate his song with that violence– to say he is at war against us?

      Oct 19, 2009 at 6:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      “Okay, so you;re going with choice A– you did not actually read Tatchell’s argument.’

      i read the argument but i have to respectfully disagree. i think 14 is just too young. and if the issue is sentencing guidelines, then let’s change that.

      also i did not “conclusively” state tatchell is a pedophile. that’s pure speculation.

      please stop putting words into my mouth,landon. you’ve been doing that throughout this entire thread. again, if you’re so concerned about accuracy in reporting, why do you continually misquote me and try to make it seem as if i am saying things i never said?

      to me, that’s evidence your arguments cant stand on their own.

      Oct 19, 2009 at 6:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      “Eric, you trust the Jamaican police not to cover up anti-gay hate as a motive for murder a lot more than gay people who live in Jamaica do.”

      hmm, really? actually i’ve been saying police are responsible for the majority of gay-bashing cases which go unreported. but any case which draws international attention also draws a lot of scrutiny from human rights organizations. since jamaica’s IMF funds are dependent on making an effort to improve human rights conditions, they have an interest in seeing justice done in these type of cases. (same thing with John Terry.) in this case, a suspect was arrested, tried and convicted with a 15-to-life sentence.

      so how was there a cover-up?

      please explain this.

      Oct 19, 2009 at 6:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      Eric,

      This is what you wrote about Peter Tatchell:

      he wants to lower the age of consent to 14 so he can sleep with your (young) boys. that’s borderline predatory.

      Again, that’s an outright lie– Tatchell wants teens to be able consent to sleep with other teens, not sleep with them himself. And I agree with you– fourteen is too young.

      Where have I been dishonest? I did not write the article or headline, just the comments with my name. Where have I twisted your words?

      Oct 19, 2009 at 6:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      No, Eric, I just don’t know enough about the circumstances of Brian Williamson’s death to have an opinion.

      Forget about that. The fact that the song was sung at the murder of a gay man in celebration of the fact that a human being was dead makes Buju Banton’s lack of response deeply immoral.

      Oct 19, 2009 at 6:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      “the fact that “Boom Bye Bye” was sung in celebration of his death would have spurred its writer to take some compensatory action by now if he were not an evil man.”

      interesting but faulty logic. artists’ responsibility isnt compulsory, and were what you say true, you’d have to extend that across the entire pop culture spectrum. thus judas priest would have to make a song commemorating the memory of the guys who blew themselves up with a shotgun, b.springsteen would have had to musically rebut reagan’s use of “born in the USA,” the clash would have had to respond to US soldiers using “rock the casbah” int he first Gulf War, and every other case of misappropriation would also have required a response.

      problem is, in order to dictate that, you’d have to be the Tought Police.

      maybe you should give it a rest, landon. your arguments are losing steam.

      Oct 19, 2009 at 6:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      sorry, Thought Police.

      Oct 19, 2009 at 6:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      well, you have to admit, there is a history of may-december romance in your culture. sand one can easily make an argument to mask one’s real motive. look at politics in california and how the wording of prop 13 masked its real intention–to cut social services. if the real issue is sentencing guidelines, then why not argue for reduction so that they are not discriminatory?

      Oct 19, 2009 at 6:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      Eric,

      Even you label the other instances you mention “misappropriations.” Obviously singing a song about killing gay men to celebrate the death of a gay man is not a misappropriation. It’s taking the lyrics at face value. Obviously, you would not have written about Sykko Sam as you have if you did not understand the difference between artistic license and actual incitement to violence. I’m sorry– sung at the murder scene in celebration of murder is at least proof of the song’s power to incite violence.

      You say that there are many instance of “May-December” love our culture in order to justify an outright lie about Peter Tatchell.

      Still waiting for the justification for your outright lie about the pepper spray incident. You knew they were liars– why did you believe Banton’s management about who was responsible without confirmation from the club?

      Oct 19, 2009 at 6:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sal(the original)
      sal(the original)

      Thanks Landon!!well he ignores me just like the homophobes here when we are attacked,when we(not so smart) go to the cops hopin they would help us instead of ridiculing us cause the homophobe is the victim but when the REAL victims speak out he doesnt see em,reality is a bitch

      Oct 19, 2009 at 7:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sal(the original)
      sal(the original)

      “second of all, ‘faggot’ is somehow less derogatory in a caribbean context than in an american context. jamaicans arent PC. apparently he was using the less derogatory of the two epithets he could have used.”WOW EA is bonkers,chi chi man is the equal to faggot here cause it means the same thing,people dont use it cause its not part of the language but dont be confused it MEANS THE SAME THING!!!GET YA ARSE ON A PLANE COME DOWN HERE AND LET ME SHOW YOU REALITY!!!!!!

      Oct 19, 2009 at 7:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sal(the original)
      sal(the original)

      “ok, now, i’ve seen all the you tube videos of alleged BBB performances. part of the problem with y’all’s interpretation is there’s a bit of a cultural gap with people who are unfamiliar with dancehall reggae.” YEAH CAUSE YOU KNOW SOOO MUCH!!!GET YA ARSE ON A PLANE AND GET A REAL PERSPECTIVE FOR YA ARTICLES!!!

      Oct 19, 2009 at 7:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sal(the original)
      sal(the original)

      WE WILL GO TO ONE OF THOSE CONCERTS HERE AS A OPENLY GAY COUPLE AND SEE THE BUJU LOVE FROM HIS FANS

      Oct 19, 2009 at 7:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      Sal, thanks for bringing a more important perspective to the discussion.

      Oct 19, 2009 at 7:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sal(the original)
      sal(the original)

      Thanks Landon again,if EA is too chicken to step in the boots of a gay person here i hope he’s giving some money (at a safe distance)to organizations that help people here

      Oct 19, 2009 at 7:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sal(the original)
      sal(the original)

      this no doubt is trivial but it would be nice to have a new radio station that wont play this hate all the frigin time with no warning

      Oct 19, 2009 at 7:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sal(the original)
      sal(the original)

      also EA SOME HELP WITH LAWYERS WHEN EMPLOYERS FIRE US CAUSE ITS LEGAL FOR EM TO DO THAT

      Oct 19, 2009 at 7:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sal(the original)
      sal(the original)

      and also EA there are some Transgendered people who would loveeeeee a normal job and not have to go with down low dudes for some cash

      Oct 19, 2009 at 7:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sal(the original)
      sal(the original)

      oh and it would be nice to have ads that call out the lies some local papers print about gay people,like if they are boogie monsters and stuff

      Oct 19, 2009 at 7:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      “sung at the murder scene in celebration of murder is at least proof of the song’s power to incite violence.”

      right. on that point we agree. that’s why i dont defend the song. why are you arguing a point i’ve already conceded and actually made myself?

      Oct 19, 2009 at 7:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sal(the original)
      sal(the original)

      but but but what do i know?EA knows more than me,he’s a reggae expert!!!!an he know sooo much about the culture it comes from too

      Oct 19, 2009 at 7:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sal(the original)
      sal(the original)

      oh and EA for all the times these kinda song played a part in shitty personal homophobic moments here do i get anything for that?nope? buju doesnt get a dime soooo i guess he off the hook.im sorry buju,im sorry!!!!!

      Oct 19, 2009 at 7:59 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sal(the original)
      sal(the original)

      its like a rally song,you should hear when they sing it here,such passion!!!hate in the voices…..whatever i over this

      Oct 19, 2009 at 8:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SamK
      SamK

      It is worthwhile to watch YouTube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZ8Z0biU_Zw “Elephant Man Buju Banton Shabba Ranks Boom Bye Bye” In this video, Buju Banton says: “[churches] preach homosexuality is a crime. So what wrong have I done when I say that homosexuality is wrong?”

      To the conservative Christian churches and the Rastafarian religion that Buju Banton is familiar with, that believe in the literal truth of the laws in Leviticus in the Bible, homosexuality is not only a crime, it is a capital crime. Buju’s statement in “Boom Bye Bye” is essentially an echo of the call from the Old Testament for execution of gays.

      It is also a call for vigilante action against gays, a call that is too often heeded in Jamaica and elsewhere.

      It is important to note that Buju Banton is not the only reggae dancehall artiste making such calls http://www.petertatchell.net/popmusic/Dancehall-Dossier-FINAL.pdf Buju is the one making a major tour of the U.S., though.

      Buju Banton performs “Boom Bye Bye” much less often these days. The song has been controversial since it was released in 1992. Even though he performs the song less often, perhaps even seldom, the song can be downloaded on Amazon and is available on compilation CDs. Most of Buju’s fans know this song by heart. Buju just says that the song was written a long time ago. He has never repudiated “Boom Bye Bye.”

      For more information see http://cancelbujubanton.wetpaint.com/
      and http://www.petertatchell.net/popmusic/buju-bantons-violations-of-the-reggae-compassionate-act.html

      Oct 20, 2009 at 1:04 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SamK
      SamK

      To answer Eric Arnold:

      Anyone can look up U.S. Copyright Office records at http://www.copyright.gov/records/ Buju Banton’s name is on all three of the U.S. copyright records for “Boom Bye Bye.” (On two of them he is listed as “Boojoo.”)

      Buju Banton has made apologies and then retracted them, just as he signed the Reggae Compassionate Act and then denied that he signed it. A copy of his signed Reggae Compassionate Act form is on the internet.

      Here’s a good summary of his actions since 2004: http://www.petertatchell.net/popmusic/buju-bantons-violations-of-the-reggae-compassionate-act.html

      Oct 20, 2009 at 1:10 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SamK
      SamK

      It is worthwhile to watch YouTube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZ8Z0biU_Zw “Elephant Man Buju Banton Shabba Ranks Boom Bye Bye” In this video, Buju Banton says: “[churches] preach homosexuality is a crime. So what wrong have I done when I say that homosexuality is wrong?”

      To the conservative Christian churches and the Rastafarian religion that Buju Banton is familiar with, that believe in the literal truth of the laws in Leviticus in the Bible, homosexuality is not only a crime, it is a capital crime. Buju’s statement in “Boom Bye Bye” is essentially an echo of the call from the Old Testament for execution of gays.

      It is also a call for vigilante action against gays, a call that is too often heeded in Jamaica and elsewhere.

      It is important to note that Buju Banton is not the only reggae dancehall artiste making such calls http://www.petertatchell.net/popmusic/Dancehall-Dossier-FINAL.pdf Buju is the one making a major tour of the U.S., though.

      Buju Banton performs “Boom Bye Bye” much less often these days. The song has been controversial since it was released in 1992. Even though he performs the song less often, perhaps even seldom, the song can be downloaded on Amazon and is available on compilation CDs. Most of Buju’s fans know this song by heart. Buju just says that the song was written a long time ago. He has never repudiated “Boom Bye Bye.”

      For more information see http://cancelbujubanton.wetpaint.com/

      Oct 20, 2009 at 1:12 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Darcy
      Darcy

      EA, are you serious? First you say of PT, “he wants to lower the age of consent to 14 so he can sleep with your (young) boys. that’s borderline predatory.” Then you say, “tallskin,i never called PT a pedophile. please dont put words in my mouth.”

      So, you’re not saying he’s a pedophile, you’re just saying he’s just a guy who wants to sleep with young boys. Huh.

      And even though Landon has repeatedly explained that Tatchell is looking to rectify a problem with the way laws are used to go after gay teenagers having consensual sex, you continue to cast aspersions on Peter Tatchell, with comments like this: “there is a history of may-december romance in your culture. sand one can easily make an argument to mask one’s real motive.”

      The only person whose motives are suspect to me right now are yours.

      Oct 20, 2009 at 1:27 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lex
      Lex

      This reminds me of when churches wouldn’t shut up about Marilyn Manson and the next thing you know he was extremely popular. Before that hardly anyone had even heard of him.

      Keep it up folks.

      Oct 20, 2009 at 2:34 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      darcy, so are you saying that PT DOESNT want to sleep with young boys?

      we can argue semantics all day, but if he was really concerned about sentencing guidelines, then he’d probably argue for their reduction. but no, he wants to lower the age of consent to 14.

      i’m sorry, but it doesnt take much to read between the lines there.

      Oct 20, 2009 at 4:06 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SamK
      SamK

      First let me say that I am a big fan of reggae. As I listen to more of the dancehall music, I really like it. I am a big fan of the Barrington Levy version of “Murderer.”

      Buju Banton grew up in a poor section of Jamaica, one of 15 children. The area where he lived, Kingston’s Salt Lane, is described as being full of conservative Christian churches. You will find that Buju Banton has converted to the Rastafarian religion and they too are homophobic. Like the conservative Christian churches that Buju Banton grew up around, the Rastafarians follow the rules in Leviticus in the Bible which call for not eating pork or shellfish and which also call for the execution of gay men. Rastafarians do not eat pork or shellfish. Probably most conservative Christians do eat pork or shellfish.

      You can read an important article about Buju Banton in this Time Magazine article: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1182991,00.html “The Most Homophobic Place on Earth?” Britain has given asylum to a number of Jamaican gay men because of the extreme homophobia and violence in Jamaica. This article also has an account of an alleged armed assault on six gay men in Kingston, Jamaica, in 2004. Buju Banton was later arrested for this assault, but it never came to trial. Buju claims that he was “cleared” of the assault charges. http://www.gargamelmusic.com/artists_buju_time4.html In actuality the case never came to trial. No evidence was ever presented to a jury. Buju was neither “cleared” nor “acquitted” of the charges.

      Buju Banton is a very homophobic man. He comes from a country which is very homophobic. Buju’s religious background and beliefs, fundamentalist Christian and Rastafarian, are extremely homophobic. I believe that he believes that the Old Testament of the Bible requires that homosexuals be executed. What he says in YouTube video “Elephant Man Buju Banton Shabba Ranks Boom Bye Bye” is that he thinks homosexuals should be executed, in so many words. In the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46PASiOjdP4 “BUJU BANTON FIRE BURN BATTY” recorded in December 2007, I believe that Buju is saying he wants God to burn gay people with fire and lightning, “fire burn batty.” This is the video where he also says “there is no end to the war between me and faggots.”

      Oct 20, 2009 at 6:32 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      Eric:

      Have you been watching Glenn Beck? Barack Obama already produced his birth certificate. And Peter Tatchell’s method for lowering the age of consent would apply only to teenagers. He is not a teenager. If he wants to sleep with young boys, changing the law in the way he suggests would do nothing to make that legal.

      It is not surprising that you are dishonestly smearing one gay activist after wrongly reporting that another committed a crime.

      Eric Arnold lies in order to defend Buju Banton. There’s ample proof in this thread and elsewhere.

      Oct 20, 2009 at 8:33 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Robert, NYC
      Robert, NYC

      Eric….you stated…”also, if you’re aware of the prevalency of child sexual abuse in jamaica and the number of poor youth forced into male prostitution due to economics, perhaps it becomes easier to understand jamaican attitudes toward homosexuality.”

      So are we to assume that there are no straight Jamaican pedophiles forcing girls into prostitution? If no, then what is the straight Jamaican attitude toward being straight?

      To digress, how about the several states here in the U.S. that permit underage girls, no younger than 14 years of age (children) to marry older men with parental consent? Why aren’t you lambasting that along with the haters of marriage equality? If that’s not state sanctioned pedophilia/ephebophilia, I don’t know what is, and not a peep out of the mainstream religious cults either.

      Oct 20, 2009 at 9:00 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Robert, NYC
      Robert, NYC

      Eric….you stated…”also, if you’re aware of the prevalency of child sexual abuse in jamaica and the number of poor youth forced into male prostitution due to economics, perhaps it becomes easier to understand jamaican attitudes toward homosexuality.”

      So are we to assume that there are no straight Jamaican pedophiles forcing girls into prostitution? If no, then what is the straight Jamaican attitude toward being straight?

      To digress, how about the several states here in the U.S. that permit underage girls or boys, no younger than 14 years of age (children) to marry older men or women with parental consent? Why aren’t you lambasting that along with the haters of marriage equality? If that’s not state sanctioned pedophilia/ephebophilia, I don’t know what is, and not a peep out of the mainstream religious cults either.

      Oct 20, 2009 at 9:01 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Robert, NYC
      Robert, NYC

      Landon, don’t even bother trying to reason or rationalize anything with these people. The catholic cult actually equates pedophilia with “homosexuality” and totally ignores the larger straight population where pedophilia occurs in far more cases if you look at government crime statistics. The reason why it appeared to be largely a male problem during the molestation scandal was that there were more boys available than girls. Had the situation been the reverse, there would be no smearing of the straight offenders’ sexual orientation, never would be brought into question, although the crime would be of course.

      Oct 20, 2009 at 9:05 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      look, this pedophilia thing is a red herring. you guys are getting yourselves all twisted up over it. you’re arguing semantics, i.e. young boys vs. teenagers. a teenager is a young boy. how many people are fully adult at 14?

      bottom line is any 45 year old person sleeping with someone one/third their age is creepy, regardless of gender or sexual orientation.

      and just because redneck bible belt states make it ok to marry their teenage sisters doesnt make it ok for tatchell or anyone else to have sex with underage boys.

      if the real issue as i said before is sentencing guidelines, then why hasnt PT addressed that? none of y’all have answered this question.

      also, i said child sexual abuse is prevalent in jamaica, period. so is prostitution due to economic necessity. in many cases, you have older men, many of them white and privildged, sleeping with younger black men and showering them with gifts–such as john terry. this may not be out and out prostitution, but it is a fact that the number of male sex workers in JA has climbed considerably of late–due to demands from tourists.

      according to the jamaican ministry of health, male sex workers in JA between 16-24 are up 300% between 200-2004; during that same period, male sex workers aged 25-49 rose as much as 1000%.

      according to a 2001 study, “small boys between the ages of 6 and 17 years were most exploited. They did not have the protection of adult family members or institutional environment for support and as such were exposed to extreme economic deprivation and abuse…Reports of boys engaging in sexual intercourse in exchange for a basic meal of a patty and a box drink were not uncommon. ”

      so while jamaican society overall is certainly homophobic, concerns cannot simply be attributed to homophobic attitudes without factoring race, class, economics, and health issues. asking Banton to donate to JFLAG without LGBT groups contributing themselves to humanitarian causes themselves in Jamaica, such as homeless children’s shelters, seems like a double standard.

      as for banton, it’s interesting to note he has continued to be protested against, despite adhering to the letter of OutRage’s 2005 statement (“Providing the singers do not in the future encourage violent attacks on gay people, the campaign will remain suspended. We hope the singers will respect our show of good faith and will choose to make music with a positive message, rather than promoting prejudice.”) as far as making music with a positive message, he has over 500 songs, all of them positive, except for one, recorded in 1988.

      merely stating one’s opposition to homosexuality, or engaging in social commentary about a gay political agenda is not the same as encouraging a violent attack. irregardless of the YouTube videos, he has not in fact performed the lyrics which have people so upset (the acid-throwing, tire-burning, etc.), though he has referenced BBB as a jump-off point for discussions about his artistic growth.

      also, there are cultural competency issues involved in any imposition of Western values, be they pro-gay or not, on a foreign culture. in particular, the difference between literal and metaphorical meaning. again, my interpretation of buju’s recent statement on jamaican radio is that his references to ‘war’ are not a literal call to arms, but refer more to ideological war. this is consistent with the use of metaphor and allegory in jamaican music since the birth of reggae.

      it’s difficult to make peace against a group with no unified agenda, whose tactics dont go beyond protest, who have no solution other than to ask you to do what you have already done.
      if the goal was to get banton to stop performing BBB in the US, he’s already done that.

      increasingly, it seems like you all just need an object of hate so that you can express your own hatred.

      Oct 20, 2009 at 4:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      should be male sex workers in JA between 16-24 are up 300% between 2000-2004…

      Oct 20, 2009 at 5:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sal(the original)
      sal(the original)

      so the holy straight god fearing jamaicans dont care bout their kiddies…shock!!!!……gay groups in jamaica must give money to charities that help the kids here,well maybe if de damn homophobes would focus on their kiddies and not who gay maybe the kiddies wont do what they do.maybe if these “gangsters”here would focus on their education and would stop with the many diff young women they knock up who end up as single mamas maybeeee ya would have shit….dont blame gays for that!!!let the gay organization stick with helpin the gay kids who (if lucky only)get kicked outta de house cause mommy and daddy dont want anything to do with that!!

      Oct 20, 2009 at 6:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      Eric is back to just repeating lies several of us have already discredited.

      If anyone sees any value in anything he has written and wants any element of it challenged, let me know.

      Otherwise, he’s proven himself to have no credibility or integrity. I can’t imagine any news organization being willing to publish him after reading his comments here.

      I think we’re done.

      Oct 20, 2009 at 7:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Chitown Kev
      Chitown Kev

      EA-please

      It’s as if black gays like me and sal (who lives in the caribbean, I believe, though not in jamaica) don’t even exist. We are the one who will more likely than not be the target of buju’s murder music.

      By not addressing the both of us (or even acknowledging our very existence and our views) you are perpetuating the racist/homophobic pushback. I have no love for buju banton whatsoever and nor should any other gay person.

      “the gays have to love buju.” you are so full of shit.

      Oct 20, 2009 at 8:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Anthony in Nashville
      Anthony in Nashville

      @ Chitown Kev:

      “It’s as if black gays like me and sal (who lives in the caribbean, I believe, though not in jamaica) don’t even exist.”

      How true. I was discussing this with an older friend a couple of weeks ago. To straights of all colors, black gays don’t exist except as Men On Film stereotypes or DL boogieman.

      When the Library of Congress was allowing people to record one hour interviews to be stored in DC, two friends of mine went to record their histories as black gay men. The technicians who were recording the conversations, instead of just checking the levels and going about their business, were fascinated and started asking questions themselves because they said they had NO IDEA black gay people existed in real life.

      But back to topic: Fuck Buju.

      I give EA credit for staying in this thread. I have been reading your work for a long time.

      Oct 20, 2009 at 9:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SamK
      SamK

      I don’t know if anyone has commented about the pepper spray that was released at the Rockit Room during Buju Banton’s performance on 10/12/09.

      That was a very irresponsible thing to do!

      Someone could have been hurt.

      I hope we don’t have any more incidents like this at clubs. We can get our points across without violence.

      Some of the clubs report receiving threats. This is not right, either.

      Oct 20, 2009 at 10:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      “It’s as if black gays like me and sal (who lives in the caribbean, I believe, though not in jamaica) don’t even exist.”

      shouldn’t you address those concerns to prime minister golding? last i heard reggae artists didnt control the jamaican government.

      “We are the one who will more likely than not be the target of buju’s murder music.”

      ok, so apart from one 17 year old song, exactly what ‘murder music’ are you talking about? can you name even one other song of buju’s you find offensive?

      and landon, if you think official jamaican ministry of health stats and actual quotes from outrage arent ‘credible’ then you are obviously beyond reason.

      despite claims of an epidemic of gay murders, there were just 30 gay-related killings over a seven year period from 1997-2004–including crimes of passion–according to j-flag (compared to an average of 1500 murders overall in jamaica annually during that same period, most of them poor, black, and living in the inner-city). or maybe jflag and amnesty int’l stats arent credible to you.

      face it, you are hopeless. i’ve seen more tolerant and/or open-minded attitudes from red-state republicans.

      Oct 20, 2009 at 11:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      Eric:

      Didn’t Buju Banton invent murder music– or is there an example of it before “Boom Bye Bye”? Isn’t it fair as a result for him to take some responsibility for the entire genre since he, at the very least, made it enormously popular. It’s fair to call all of it “Buju’s murder music.” It’s not like he’s discouraged anyone else from producing it or been consistent in distancing himself from “Boom Bye Bye”.

      But you don’t care that Buju Banton has continued his campaign against gay people by repeatedly saying that he is at war with us. You slander gay people on his behalf– even Sam apparently believes your lie that gay protesters were responsible for the pepper spray incident.

      And most importantly– when a gay man from the Caribbean tries to engage you in dialogue about what life is like for gay people there and how the music you defend hurts his life– you completely ignore Sal.

      So much for your concern for the gay people of Jamaica.

      Again, blaming gay men for Jamaica’s problems (which you do over and over) is nonsensical and bigoted. Stop it.

      Oct 20, 2009 at 11:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      one of the biggest lies being spread about buju is that his whole catalog is filled with homophobic content when it actuality it’s just. one. song.

      just to put this in perspective, over nine studio albums, he’s released 146 total songs. (none of which are homophobic.) if you add the 20-25 songs that appear exclusively on US compilations that’s about 171 non-homophobic tunes vs. one homophobic tune. so that’s less than 1% of his total recorded output. actually it’s about 0.58% if you want to do the math.

      that’s actually a conservative estimate since we’re just talking about domestic US releases, not including jamaican 7″s, tracks which have appeared on int’l comps and other artists’ albums–which has been estimated at 500.

      1 divided by 500 is 0.002%. so he’s made 99.998% positive material over 21 years.

      i don’t know too many people who are positive 99.998% of the time. do you? that’s a pretty good track record, statistically- speaking.

      can you argue with the math, landon?

      Oct 20, 2009 at 11:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      never once have i blamed jamaican gays for the situation they are in. you are blatantly lying your ass off.

      and actually, if you’re going to talk about homophobic music before boom bye bye, you can go back and check Yellowman in the 80s. so that assertion is patently false, as well.

      sal is not attempting to hold a civil conversation. he started out by yelling at me. when i referenced buju’s former jamaican trainer who opined in petrelis’ blog, he didnt comment on that. throughout this thread, he hasnt shown that he can offer more than knee-jerk responses. if he wants to address me intelligently, i’d be more than happy to recognize his existence.

      Oct 21, 2009 at 12:01 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      Eric,

      You are right that people often think that Buju Banton has written many more anti-gay songs than the one that he has. Of course, you don’t think don’t think there is anything wrong with him screaming, “There is no end to the war between me and faggot.” You’re both wrong. He has continued his campaign of hated against us without writing any new anti-gay songs.

      I have never heard Yellowman’s music referred to “murder music,” nor can I find a reference where the term is used to talk about him specifically. I never made the ridiculous claim that Banton invented homophobic lyrics, but you know that.

      When you try to justify Jamaican homophobia by talking about boys forced into prostitution, you are saying that gay men have brought this hatred upon ourselves. Isn’t that your point– because other gay men have treated boys in Jamaica badly, it’s okay for Buju Banton to sing about setting me on fire? And again, your idea that gay men are more inclined to be sexual predators than straight men is a thoroughly debunked, bigoted, evil lie.

      It is hilarious that you, who think gays should stop picking on poor little Buju Banton, who only declares war against us, should feel that you can ignore Sal for using all caps.

      Oct 21, 2009 at 12:33 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      “When you try to justify Jamaican homophobia by talking about boys forced into prostitution, you are saying that gay men have brought this hatred upon ourselves. Isn’t that your point– because other gay men have treated boys in Jamaica badly, it’s okay for Buju Banton to sing about setting me on fire?”

      there’s a difference between justifying something and presenting context. i’m referencing the relation ship between the sex trade, economics and poverty in third-world countries but you dont get that.

      and if that was my point, it would have been one i would have actually made myself instead of one made for me by you. thanks but no thanks, i can speak for myself.

      Oct 21, 2009 at 12:39 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      Eric,

      You said that gay men should not protest Banton without giving money to children’s shelters in Jamaica.

      How is that not saying that gay men are responsible for the conditions you describe?

      Oct 21, 2009 at 12:48 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      landon, are you serious?
      you have some issues. but you know that.

      what i said was that if gay people in america really wanted to improve the conditions of gays in jamaica, they would contribute to humanitarian causes in JA.

      what you are doing now is protesting just to protest.

      your anger and hatred of homophobia just fuels anger and hatred toward others–buju, lesbians, straight people, whomever.

      isnt it time to just let it go?

      Oct 21, 2009 at 5:10 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Robert, NYC
      Robert, NYC

      Sal at 180…..I totally agree. EA dismisses the sex trade among straights of course which far outnumbers the gay sex trade statistics world wide, and isn’t it revealing that there is no heterophobia from gays, unlike the homophobia that cases of gay pedophilia or prostitution generate in Jamaica and elsewhere. They don’t hear us writing anti straight songs threatening them with violence or killing them or inciting others to do it as the moron Banton did, do they? Maybe we should just to give them a dose of their own hate medicine, let them feel what its like for a change.

      Oct 21, 2009 at 6:27 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      Eric:

      That’s been your point all along– it’s been such a long time and we should just let it go. You don’t think Buju is doing anything wrong by screaming anti-gay slogans at his audiences. You don’t take seriously the accusations of gay men who say he beat them nearly to death. You think it’s worth mention every time he might have apologized (even those like the RCA you know are bogus) but none of the times he has taken those apologies back.

      You feel justified in lying about gay people– we pepper-sprayed Buju’s concert! We want to lower the age of consent to sleep with young boys!–and then accuse us of fueling hatred.

      Do you ever win arguments?

      Oct 21, 2009 at 6:46 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      landon, at a certain point, i think one has to step back and say, what have i really accomplished? is my protest campaign fueling hate, racism, and bigotry, or is it promoting understanding and tolerance? have i improved conditions for the people i supposedly am so concerned about, or have i basically been preaching to the converted, telling them what they already think they know? have i included a diverse, representative community in this discussion or am i primarily just talking to people from the same ethnic and cultural background as myself? you might also want to ask, am i factually-challenged or do i have all the information?

      to me, the most troubling aspect of the whole thing isnt the purported homophobia, it’s how far these activists are willing to go to keep promoting their myths, when the truth is out there and has in many cases been well-documented.

      here’s how that line goes: we will continue to protest one song out of over 500 because without that, we would have nothing to protest. every crime that happens to gay people in jamaica is a hate crime, even crimes of passion or murders committed in the course of a robbery. murders against gays are more important than murders against poor black people, including murders by the police against poor black people. banton has continued to record homophobic material. we have the right to impose gay Western cultural values on a third world country. we would rather spend thousands of dollars on putting wire stories out than donating to AIDS charities in Jamaica and patting ourselves on the back all over the gay blogosphere, because we care so much about poor people in third world countries. we will ask you to do something you have already done, then protest you because we say you have not done it. we see no need to include a wider context or look at the role of the state in this issue, because it’s easier for us to scapegoat one target. we dont believe in human rights, we believe in “gay human rights,” whatever that is. and no, we’re not racist, even though we summarily dismiss any argument coming from queer people of color as automatically invalid if it doesnt happen to agree with our point of view. and anyone who has the nerve to question this official line is without a doubt homophobic, regardless of how much they have interacted or even worked with queer people in the past.

      obviously, there is no “winning” an argument with someone who already has their mind made up. at the end of the day, you are entitled to your opinion, but your argument merely parrots the official line. how much research have you done on your own? i’ve given you plenty of facts, relevant statistical information, excerpted quotes, etc. yet you keep coming back to something which is a moot point and non-issue as if that could somehow invalidate all of this empirical evidence.

      wake up and smell the coffee, my friend. even a smidgen of actual research on your part would lead to a more enlightened perspective. but, of course, it’s not really about having a more enlightened perspective, is it?

      Oct 21, 2009 at 1:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sal(the original)
      sal(the original)

      EA says”i’d be more than happy to recognize his existence” well my dear friend i dont give a rats arse what you think you know why well unlike you I LIVE IN THIS MESS!!!that’s why i was ‘yelling’ at you!!cause you are speaking from a place you hell dont know about and you dont even try to sympathize with the plight of the REAL victims here!!!!buju is not the victim, no one pelted glass bottles(that has happened to me!!!)at him!!!he hasnt had his own family treat em like an outcast and he certainly he doesnt have to hear an ‘anthem’ for killing people like him whenever he turns on the radio and have the people around him request and play that kinda music!!!

      Oct 21, 2009 at 7:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sal(the original)
      sal(the original)

      …to hear stuff like that all de damn time it doesnt help the confidence of a gay person here!its ya home under law but (under law too) its not ya “home”

      Oct 21, 2009 at 7:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Harvey LiveSF
      Harvey LiveSF

      EA–

      Here’s what it comes down to. Your own newspaper will no longer allow you to cover this controversy because you have shown yourself to be biased and unprofessional.

      I don’t know what kinda man-crush you have on Buju, but I hope you think very hard about “the war between me and faggot” that buju is engaged in, and the violent messages that he has and DOES push against gays.

      Let me correct you on two things:
      1. Demanding human rights for all is not western cultural values. It’s universal.

      2. What other protests are you aware of that have sparked any discussion on the problem of homophobia in Jamaican society? It’s largely uncovered until these important protests bring it out–AND deliver the message that gay-bashers can run but they can’t hide from their past.

      Oct 21, 2009 at 8:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Harvey LiveSF
      Harvey LiveSF

      Oh, and the “apology”

      Eric Arnold…you have bought Tracii McGregor’s lies straight up. What apologies? A vague reference to one in a dusty early 90s history? Let’s see it. Let’s hear it. Are there any that have happened since he last performed the song?

      Of course not.

      You don’t make “amends” with the persecuted minority you attack

      And by the way, I am sorry to see you so ignorant about Jamaica. The missing voice here are the gay lesbian activists who have been silenced by the genocidal-colonial-homophobia you attempt to excuse. I would suggest reviewing: http://gayjamaicawatch.blogspot.com/

      your suggestion that jamaican gays support buju is shameful and untrue.

      Oct 21, 2009 at 8:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Harvey LiveSF
      Harvey LiveSF

      oh and finishing that sentence…you don’t make “amends” with a persecuted minority whose death you’ve called for my…continuing to play the song…refusing to publicly apologize at least where your victims can hear you…standing by the genocidal lyrics you pushed out…attacking the community for protesting their treatment…AND THEN explaining that “there is no end to war between me and faggot.”

      Forgive and forget when the war against us by the guy who called for our death goes on? WTF?

      Oct 21, 2009 at 8:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Harvey LiveSF
      Harvey LiveSF

      Go get her, Sal!

      Oct 21, 2009 at 8:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      sal, i actually am interested in your experience as a gay man from the caribbean, as long as you’re not yelling at me.

      and i do have sympathy for the real victims–which are not, it must be said, gay and lesbian people in this country, who have enough media power to trample First Amendment rights and promote wildly inaccurate propaganda campaigns–for example, the AP reported that “Batty Rider,” a song about tight shorts on a woman, had homophobic lyrics. (that’s a new definition: anything advocating heterosexuality is homophobic).

      but i digress. this morning, i was interviewed by a jamaican radio station. while i pointed out some of the context i have been saying here, if they were expecting me to co-sign on jamaican homophobia, they were dead wrong. i told them they can’t just pretend like gays and lesbians dont exist in jamaica. then i again called for legislative action as the only solution which can, in fact, begin to correct the perception that equal rights shouldnt apply to all members of society.

      back to you. it’s been incredibly valuable to me, as i’ve researched the topic over the years, to hear first-hand accounts from people like stacyann chinn, who grew up listening to dancehall in jamaica, of how homophobic lyrics have personally affected them. much more valuable than reading the words of angry people who mistranslate lyrics, don’t know the difference between different songs, and lack the proper context to understand caribbean culture.

      i can only imagine what it’s like to grow up queer in a society far more homophobic than our own. i’m lucky in a sense, because i grew up in the bay area–long ago, i didnt question that people were sometimes different. no one got gay-bashed at my high school, though it took a few years before the term ‘faggot’ was replaced with more PC termslike gay or queer. as far as reggae and dancehall music goes, most selectas in the bay have LGBT friends, so music with homophobic content was never really popular. i cant say no one ever spun TOK or Elephant Man, but i can say that that aspect of dancehall wasnt what people were going to clubs to hear.

      anyway, i’d be interested in hearing more about your experience and specifically your involvement with the music culture of the islands, and how homophobic lyrics have affected you personally. were you personally traumatized by boom bye bye and other songs? how does that affect your perception of reggae and dancehall to this day? are you afraid of homophobic violence at reggae shows? has that ever happened to you in this country?

      Oct 21, 2009 at 8:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      harvey, did you even read the posts regarding this topic in the url you linked?

      first there’s an article about how gays in Denmark are protesting Sizzla DESPITE him signing the RCA and adhering to it. so even when reggae artists capitulate to gay demands, the ‘war’ still isnt called off and is beginning to spread to other artists internationally.

      then there’s an article calling on Mutabaruka to ask Buju distance himself from the record once and for all. ok, fair enough. i’m in favor of that too.

      then there’s an article quoting a human rights activist who met with jamaican gays who said the demands raised by Petrelis et al. either werent realistic or would have no effect on eradicating homophobia in jamaica–and may actually inspire a backlash.

      funny, that’s almost word for word what i’ve been saying. bet you dont call Gay Jamaica Watch homophobic for reporting it.

      here’s the skinny, in case you overlooked it:

      “she has spoken with persons in the local gay community directly and through workshops and during these discussions, the rights they were interested in were not those put forward to Buju Banton by the international gay community.

      “If discrimination and the buggery law were some of the issues raised by the international gay community I would say yes you have been speaking to persons here and this is what matter. But I’m not sure about any of those issues that they raised and how in fact these may create the local backlash that the local gay community may not want to experience”

      lastly, harvey, you may not be aware but the Declaration of Universal Human Rights as adopted by the UN is based on a speech given by Haile Selassie I, Emperor of Ethiopia and…wait for it…the titular deity of the Rastafariasn religion. so you’re right, Human Rights is not a western value, technically it’s African.

      still, differentiating between “human rights” and “gay human rights” as OutRage has done is elitist at best and oxymoronic at worst; and i dont see where the definition of human rights means one must embrace an ideology contrary to one’s personal beliefs. i think thats called fascism.

      Oct 21, 2009 at 8:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tommy
      Tommy

      What’s with these stupid Jamaican’s and Bahamian’s obsession with gay people? It’s fucking weird. And they need to stay in their own fucking countries and keep their hate over there.

      Oct 21, 2009 at 9:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • HarveyLiveSF
      HarveyLiveSF

      First of all, Eric K. Arnold, you are the one who has ruined your professional reputation by knowingly “reporting” lies about the gay community, and falsely claiming they pepper-sprayed the buju show, so i don’t know how you’re getting mouthy on here.

      Second of all–how dare you further misrepresent the work of Howie Fulton at Gay Jamaica Watch? Of course he supports the global gay resistance to buju, while also acknowledging how complicated it is. You chose to quote a piece where he graciously allowed a str8 ally to suggest that the tactics of the buju campaign fall short of the goals. Compare her warm and thoughtful tone, Eric K. Arnold, with your own hysterical and unpleasant ejaculations, and even you will see why you are held in such low regard by the gay community.

      Third–thank you for establishing the universality of human rights. That said, Outrage’s coining of the term “gay human rights,” seems completely natural, and in live with Haile Selassie’s thinking. Shall we say, “human rights we invoke against the discrimination we face for being gay?” Okay, Eric K. Arnold, we so submit.

      Now that your debater’s points have been dismissed, str8 boy listen up: Homophobia is another term for genocide and the holocaust, with sexual minorities marched to their death every day. buju’s senseless cheering on of this in the most famous glorification of gay genocide ever recorded already marks him as someone who can’t be “conscious,” at least with some amends. And he did NOT make amends, instead…continuing to perform the song…never apologizing in a way that the victims of his words ever hear (what book? what?)…calling the victims of his words slurs…sending out his publicist to verbally bash his victims again…standing by as his lyrics spread to become globally famous…and finally declaring over and over his “war” on the “faggot”s he earlier called “batty boy.” Those aren’t amends, Eric K. Arnold, even you have to admit.

      Now fuck off and go away.

      Just don’t go running to the editors of SF Weekly ever again begging to write about buju, because you are banned from the subject. your little obsession will have to confine itself to nastygrams on gay blogs.

      Oct 21, 2009 at 11:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • HarveyLiveSF
      HarveyLiveSF

      *without

      Oct 22, 2009 at 12:00 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sal(the original)
      sal(the original)

      EA it makes me sick reading your posts,you STILL continue this thing that is the gays who deserve what they get if they protest this hate music!!the gays here would feel the wrath if they dont know their place and shut up basically!!ahhhh sound like someone who thinks they are better than us!!another thing to say that gays in the first world countries dont have it as bad is kinda disrespectful to all the gays who have been killed ,attacked HELL just this week!!spit on their suffering why dont you….another thing you wanna hear about my experience,cool but i cant help but think you have this philosophy that gays should be happy with the scraps the kind straights throw at us and we must learn to silence our grumbling stomachs that hunger for equality,i recommend you look up that word…..

      Oct 22, 2009 at 1:56 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sal(the original)
      sal(the original)

      EQUALITY…ya know somethin we gays/humans(yes we are not the bookie men or demons)all want

      Oct 22, 2009 at 1:59 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sal(the original)
      sal(the original)

      the day when i can listen to any radio station and not have to worry about being bombarded with songs about KILLIN!!!! ME !!!!MY GOOD MAN then the unease in the gay community would be gone.when these artists and not their western record labels lawyers can say ESPECIALLY IN DE CARIBBEAN that they dont want this stuff played so that no future gay me would have to go through the shit i had to go though and not have some damn song leave em feeling isolated because de majority of de population of people stand behind this music like its “we culture” like its out identity and god damn the gays who have the problem with our views

      Oct 22, 2009 at 2:08 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sal(the original)
      sal(the original)

      EA if you had a gay kid would you play buju song around him/her for your listening pleasure??how would you explain a choice in song that calls for a horrendous death of a person like your kid??would you argue with your kids uncomfortably with an artist that wrote this song and still to this day calls someone like your kid a faggot?would you put your music appetite over your kids natural feeling of threat???

      Oct 22, 2009 at 2:16 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sal(the original)
      sal(the original)

      Discomfort

      Oct 22, 2009 at 2:19 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      @Harvey: there is no such thing as ‘gay human rights’ just as there is no such thing as ‘black human rights.’ there is only human rights, period.

      should buju and other reggae artists acknowledge this? yes. should the jamaican government acknowledge this? yes.

      and i think you are missing the point. of course howie is against discrimination. but he’s also pointing out that the demographics of the protestors are skewed racially, and that anything short of a legislative strategy basically amounts to grandstanding, and doesnt help JFLAG. this is basically what i’ve been saying for five years.

      @ sal: first of all, i don’t play that song now. if i had a gay kid, it wouldn’t be any different.

      if i had to explain prejudice, homophobia, racism, etc., to a child, i’d tell them that people are sometimes ignorant and that they are not responsible for other people’s attitudes. i’d tell that child not to take it personally, not to internalize that hate because that would only make them hateful, and to try to have love in their heart for all human beings, regardless.

      Oct 22, 2009 at 12:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      “I am of the view that with heated exchanges and cross and counter cross bickering we won’t see the possible solutions and or ideas for us to move forward.”

      that’s ya boy howie on the subject. this thread proves that point, and then some.

      interestingly, he’s basically saying the same thing i’ve been saying all along. maybe you all can accept it coming from a fellow queer better than you can from a hetero like me.

      Oct 22, 2009 at 1:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • HarveyLiveS
      HarveyLiveS

      No Eric K. Arnold, you are missing the point. First of all, again, dumbass, you are quoting someone he links to on the site, rather than Howie himself.

      Secondly, every group that the global gay rights movement protests against…conservative christians, Iranian and Saudi mullahs, gay-bashing buju, Utah Mormons…always claims that their religion drives them to hate, and that gays are being insensitive to their precious gay-hating culture. It’s lies every time. The gay community will not be silent because Mormons accuse us of being anti-Mormon, or buju’s enablers accuse us of being anti-rasta. We challenge the homophobia and oppression at the heart of every culture, even when it’s promulgated by musicians…and their hangers-on.

      There are gays of every color outraged by the threat BoomByeBye poses to our brothers and sisters, and we don’t need advice on how to protest from the likes of you, a quasi-journalist who disgraced himself by printing lies about the global lgbt social justice movement. Of course, while JFlag is one important consideration for the reaction to it, the larger point that we must make is that you can’t call for the death of gays and then whistly along your way merrily to work as if nothing ever happened…which buju is attempting to do, aided by sycophants such as yourself. If you’re so interested in JFlag, I would encourage you to write about them, rather than harming them by hyping buju.

      Now, if I remember correctly str8 boy, you have been invited to fuck off and return to relishing in your str8 privilege. Goodbye.

      Oct 22, 2009 at 1:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • David
      David

      EA’s posts should be forwarded to advertisers in the SF Weekly, with a reminder that his words reflect poorly on them as well, since he acknowledged his relationship with SF Weekly, and the advertizers who fund it.

      Oct 22, 2009 at 1:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      “First of all, again, dumbass, you are quoting someone he links to on the site, rather than Howie himself.’

      that last quote WAS howie.

      don’t believe me? here’s the link: http://gayjamaicawatch.blogspot.com/2009/10/let-dust-settle.html

      Oct 22, 2009 at 1:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      Interestingly, Village Voice Media, which has allowed Eric Arnold to publish the same lies he tries to spread here and some extra ones at the SF Weekly, has run another pro-Banton, anti-gay piece in one of their other outlets:

      http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/dc9/2009/10/reggae_artist_buju_banton_didn.php

      Contact Village Voice Media at 602-271-0040

      Oct 22, 2009 at 3:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      Despite all of his claims that he is not homophobic, Eric K Arnold reveals the extent of his bigotry against gay people here:

      “i do have sympathy for the real victims–which are not, it must be said, gay and lesbian people in this country, who have enough media power to trample First Amendment rights and promote wildly inaccurate propaganda campaigns”

      This from a man who will repeat any lie that Buju Banton’s management tells him to smear us.

      Oct 22, 2009 at 3:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      landon, the truth is throughout this thread you have been smearing me.

      you havent been the least bit apologetic, whereas i apologized of my own volition to pollo del mar–and corrected the story.

      but forget what i’m saying. look at the following:

      –JFLAG itself is questioning the effectiveness of activists’ tactics in the US.

      –the First Amendment stuff comes directly from the Florida ACLU.

      this should tell you something.

      as for smearing, the lorri jean video from LA contains numerous factual errors, claiming among other things that buju’s team sent out word of the SF meeting to international news outlets–when in actuality it was petrelis. buju’s management doesnt even have any photos to provide to news outlets.

      landon, let’s look at this rationally for a second. why would i want to smear you?

      my interest at this point is in moving the debate forward in a calm, rational manner and focusing attention on repealing the legal justification for homophobia in jamaica–just as it was five years ago, when i first covered the story, before buju was even involved.

      answer this: if i was homophobic, why would i work directly with queer activists on media justice campaigns?

      and why would i tell jamaican radio they can’t continue to deny the existence of jamaican gays and lesbians?

      does that sound like something an intolerant person would say?

      Oct 22, 2009 at 4:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      furthermore, i not only have sympathy for the victims of homophobic violence in jamaica but also for the 1500 people murdered there every year, including over 200 shot and killed by police. their deaths are no less tragic and no less deserving of international attention.

      Oct 22, 2009 at 4:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      Eric,

      I have said nothing about you which I have not supported, have I?

      So please stop acting like Buju and claiming that gay people are smearing you when they tell the truth about your bigotry and lies.

      As was obvious when you made the Banton concert your pick of the day for the anniversary of the death of Matthew Shepard and then refused to even acknowledge this was an insensitive error, the people you have no sympathy for are gay and lesbian people who live the United States. You do not take violence against us seriously– that’s obvious from your repeated insistence that we “have it pretty good.”

      No, Eric, we don’t. People still get beat up and killed in the United States for being gay. You may not believe that, you obviously don’t care, but it’s a fact.

      Oct 22, 2009 at 4:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Harvey LiveSF
      Harvey LiveSF

      Eric K. Arnold, you write: “my interest at this point is in moving the debate forward in a calm, rational manner and focusing attention on repealing the legal justification for homophobia in jamaica–just as it was five years ago, when i first covered the story, before buju was even involved.”

      Bullshit.

      Were that the case, you never would have “reported” the sensationalist lies that gays had pepper-sprayed buju at his concert. This is one of the most egregious violations of journalistic standards that I can recall. It indicates that you have some kind of agenda…perhaps to suck up to the object of your man-crush huju…but I wouldn’t care to guess what it is. The anti-gay bias in your “reporting,” led your own paper to hide your “article” and ban you from writing on the subbject again.

      Moreover, how dare someone like you sully the good name of JFlag, which works under incredible pressure due to str8s like you and your hero buju? Of course….like MOST gay people of all backgrounds throughout the world who know about boom byebye…they support standing up to buju and what he represents: http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/magazines/Entertainment/html/20091015T200000-0500_161899_OBS__J_FLAG_NOT_IMPRESSED.asp:

      “J-FLAG remains resolute in its position that no agreement can be reached between Banton and the gay community until (a) he desists from publicly performing Boom Bye-Bye and (b) repudiates the call for the “murder” of gay and lesbian Jamaicans.” Clear enough for you?

      Again, fuck off and goodbye.

      Oct 22, 2009 at 5:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      Harvey, given the “agenda” which seems to be blindly protesting with no end goal in sight, your assertions are frankly quite ironic.

      FWIW, i agree with JFLAG on what should be expected of buju. too bad petrelis didnt ask that of him when he sat down with him, and it’s too bad none of the other activists thought to do the same, either.

      btw, you left this part out:

      “We share the concern of the parties that the stalemate be brought to an end as soon as possible. Its persistence does harm to Jamaica’s image and to the marketability of its popular music industry. It is for these reasons that J-FLAG is underwhelmed by a meeting that could serve to unfetter Mr Myrie’s career but do little to redress anti-gay hostilities his music has fostered,”

      and this part, from gay jamaica watch:

      “If discrimination and the buggery law were some of the issues raised by the international gay community I would say yes you have been speaking to persons here and this is what matter. But I’m not sure about any of those issues that they raised and how in fact these may create the local backlash that the local gay community may not want to experience,”

      both of these posts from jamaica suggest that the campaign against banton may be doing more harm than good for the people its allegedly in support of, or at least, that it is focusing attention away from the real issue, which is the government’s anti-gay stance. this is what i have been saying since 2004.

      are you saying that i should only quote from or refer to as you put it, “straight” sources? that’s implying that only gay people can quote gay media. it’s actually much more insightful to see what LGBT activists in Jamaica are saying about this, since the American side is just running around in circles.

      continue with your knee-jerk reactions all you want, ignore the ACLU in Florida — whose op/ed was written in part by Robert Rosenwald, who is the director of the LGBT Advocacy Project, American Civil Liberties Union of Florida, Miami (here’s the link: http://www.aclufl.org/news_events/Index.cfm?action=viewRelease&emailAlertID=3786 )– but ask yourself this: how are you improving conditions in Jamaica by protesting an artist in America? and if you are in fact making things worse, what will you do then? Protest yourselves?

      Oct 22, 2009 at 5:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      @landon, again,let’s be calm and rational here. shepard’s anniversary was on a monday–so how could a “weekend” pick intentionally sully his memory, as you claimed earlier?

      and if anything, the error was on the part of the rock it room, who perhaps should have been more aware of the feelings of the LGBT community. you act as if the only fault in this has been mine, when in truth, there have been grievous mistakes made by all sides in this, the end result being that the debate has not been advanced.

      landon, you call for protests against the dallas observer for a story which isn’t exactly anti- nor pro- banton nor overly pro- or anti-gay –in fact it clearly shows black people protesting, which i’m sure must come as a sigh of relief to LGBT activists accused of being overly white.

      but just to show that my heart and head is in the right place here, i’m going to include a link to a pdf which has the emails and addresses of the Jamaican government, including PM Bruce Golding:

      http://www.jis.gov.jm/Cabinet_Ministers_and_Ministries.pdf

      Oct 22, 2009 at 5:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      Eric,

      I never said or intended to say that your choice of the Banton concert as SF Weekly’s Pick of the Day (not yours, but the publications) was an intentional slight. I have already said I believe that the slight was unintentional. I accept the apology of the Rock-It Room, which has said that it made an error in allowing the concert to be scheduled for that night (and I’m pretty sure will never host Banton again in any case).

      The fact is, you think recommending a concert by the man who says he is at war with “faggot” and whose work has been sung at the murder of a gay rights activists for the night of Matthew Shepard’s death is fine. Do you understand the hate crimes bill is named for him?

      To use your own comparison, let’s say a massively insensitive revival house had scheduled a John Ford marathon for the same day. If you were ignorant of the status of that day in commemorating the suffering of indigenous people, you might make that marathon a pick for your publication. Having done so, though, I hope you would apologize if a Native American person told you that she found your choice hurtful.

      The fact is, Eric, you don’t violence against gay and lesbians in the United States seriously. If you did, you would already have apologized for that choice.

      Eric, there are black gay people: a picture showing them does keep the story from being anti-gay. I assume those are gay people– the story is anti-gay because it inflates claims that their protest is not legitimate.

      What grievous error has been made on the part of gay rights activists? You say each side has made them– what exactly have we done that would be equal to Buju’s warcry or your own willingness to trust his management, despite their record of lying this issue, when they lied about an activist I prefer not to identify by name?

      Nothing, of course– you are the villains. We have done nothing wrong, other than say, “Those people are bigots. Don’t give them money.”

      Oct 22, 2009 at 6:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Harvey LiveSF
      Harvey LiveSF

      Eric K. Arnold, you are STILL lying about JFLAG! Just as you lied about the gays allegedly pepper-spraying buju’s concert. And Howie…BOTH of whom support the protests your false-reporting undermines.

      JFlag further wrote, after making clear that buju needs to denounce Boom Bye Bye that, “These are the minimum conditions required by decency for him to be absolved of his incitement of violence against these groups. Anything less is mere farce and a public relations stunt to garner support for his music,” noted J-FLAG.”

      Your lies about their stance–about their demand for buju to make amends–is you blaming the victim once again (like the pepper spray lies). Moreover, as explained, BoomByeBye is a global problem, and not just a Jamaican problem; buju must be judged by universal standards of human decency. Until buju makes amends for calling for gay genocide, no legitimate American business that has any concern for the gay community will want to be associated with him. This is the only tool we have to fight against this threat.

      (And for the record, I don’t care about the ACLU’s opinion on our social justice movement. How bizarre for you to quote them…almost like it seems you’re searching for evidence for your crusade against the gays.)

      Again, fuck off Eric K. Arnold. And by the way, where’s YOUR apology to the gay community for the nasty slander you wrote about us pepperspraying our basher?

      Oct 22, 2009 at 6:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      @landon, look, the pick was for the saturday show in berkeley, with a brief, one-line mention of the monday show. i can see how in retrospect that may have seemed like an intentional oversight, which it wasn’t. maybe it never crossed your mind that i may have been reacting to your hostile and assumptive tone, rather than dismissing shepard’s memory. i’ll repeat what i said earlier: no innocent life should be lost.

      and FWIW, i take actual (not implied) violence against any group seriously. that’s why i keep mentioning all the people murdered by police in jamaica.

      also, you dont have to tell me there are black gay people: i live in oakland. i don’t bat an eye when i see queer youth and TVs hanging out on Broadway or buying swisher sweets at the neighborhood liquor store–in fact i’m happy they feel comfortable in this city. perhaps you should consider moving here so you can learn to be more tolerant yourself.

      as far as grievous errors, let me make this clear:
      –Banton should have been more forthright in the meeting and reiterated his denunciation of violence and repudiation of his own song. if i were buju, i would have said something like this: “i acknowledge the pain and suffering this song has caused both here and in my home country. for the sake of human rights, i retract any sentiments expressed in that song, apologize for making those statements, and reiterate my commitment to human rights for all people. i also call on VP records to remove the song from future compilations and for iTunes to stop selling it.” i think that would have sufficed.
      –also, he should have chosen his words more carefully on jamaican radio. using the f-bomb was a poor choice of words. not doing so makes him seem insincere and hypocritical, and his excuse doesnt really cut it.
      –the LGBT contingent which met with him in SF should have done more background research on Banton’s career in general. not knowing about his AIDS foundation, or any of his other songs, made them look ill-informed.
      –also they should have had more than just one token member of the black LGBT community present, and they should have met beforehand and agreed on what they were going to ask him for specifically, and not left it up to petrelis, who made unreasonable demands so he could report they had been “denied.”
      –i’ve already admitted my mistake, which i blame more on being hungover if you must know than a willingness to trust buju’s management. nevertheless, i’ve already bitten the bullet for this, and owned up to my own responsibility, which you havent acknowledged.
      –in general, i think the LGBT lobby has made serious tactical errors. there seems to be no real strategy and no real agenda beyond protest. it’s beginning to look like the blind leading the blind, as the ACLU and JFLAG are starting to warn. they have also erred in not calling for more pressure to be put on the Jamaican government. boycotting Red Stripe is not enough.
      –i also think the case for boom bye bye being an example of hate speech could have been made without misrepresenting other facts about reggae, banton’s other songs, and even what does and does not characterize a hate crime.
      –lorri jean could have gotten a meeting with buju had she exercised diplomacy, but she played it for publicity. what you dont know is that buju’s team is willing to meet with people if they can have a calm and rational debate which advances the dialogue forward. i dont think it’s unreasonable not to want to have a serious discussion in a hostile environment.
      –having queers of color and particularly members of the Caribbean LGBT community up front and center from the beginning would have been a Very Good Idea. that would have forced the Jamaican press for one to take the issue more seriously.
      –the notion that somehow this is just a domestic problem involving one artist, when actually, it’s an international human rights concern involving not just homophobic reggae artists, but the attitudes of an entire population justified by church groups and the official state position of a third world country, should have been taken into account.
      –and finally, the campaign against Banton should have not allowed itself to dissolve into hate speech itself.

      that enough for you?

      Oct 22, 2009 at 6:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Harvey LiveSF
      Harvey LiveSF

      Eric K. Arnold:

      Your latest compendium of twaddle convinces me you’re dumber than really malicious. But let’s correct a few things.

      1. buju’s aids foundation is irrelevant to his oft-repeated calls for gay genocide
      2. Yes, sure, the protest could have been done better, and the gays at the meeting should have done their research–so they would have known not to have the meeting. No one around here likes or defends Michael Petrelis or Bevan Dufty.
      3. jamaican and POC queers have been involved in this issue for some time, and the jamaican press chose not to cover it. duh. don’t silence all those people.
      4. STOP mentioning JFLAG since you can’t without lying about them. They SUPPORT the campaign against buju.
      5. Fuck you for calling fabulous activst Andrea Shorter a “token”
      6. You criticize the “LGBT lobby,” which is almost the same term as Tracii McGregor “gay lobby,” but it does not exist. The global pushback to buju is taken up anew by individual gay lesbian activists who are outraged by what buju has done. Sorry, no conspiracy here, we’re not nearly as rich and devious or white as you point us out to be. You are right about one thing…there is no strategy here! These are organic protests. I’ve never spoken with Lorri Jean, Andy Thayer, or Peter Tatchell, and I am certain that Pollo Del Mar doesn’t take her marching orders from those a-gays.
      7. You accuse the gay victims of buju of “hate speech”?? Seriously??
      8. How bizarre was your little skit where you pretended to be buju apologizing for this song??? Seriously twisted, Eric K. Arnold. Your fantasies about speaking in buju’s voice are a psychologist’s dream!
      9. Finally, I appreciate that we finally know that a hangover was to blame for your false reporting where you accused an entire social justice movement of assault. Hey happens to the best of us. (Right?)

      To sum up: you’re proven Eric K. Arnold that you’re a liar, you’ve demonstrated your bias against gay people, and we don’t need your advice of how to create social progress. So what are you gaining by taunting the gays here again about how much you like the man who calls/ed for our death?

      Oct 22, 2009 at 7:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      Eric:

      TWO sentences is your article are about the Berkeley concert vs. ONE about the the SF concert. The rest applies to both. The name of the publication is SF Weekly– the SF pick is going to seem like the focus to most of its readers.

      Certainly, if Buju Banton ever says anything like what you acknowledge he needs to say, and then does not say anything negative about gays for two years, I’ll listen. Until that day– you want us to treat someone who declares himself our enemy as a disadvantaged pet, and we won’t.

      You are being dishonest again, Eric, in some of your criticism of our side. Banton sat down with gay activists only when the Rock-It Room made it clear he would not be going on otherwise. He has refused all other meetings, besides claims from his management that his just never gets them. He delayed the meeting until the last minute, which adversely affected representation at the meeting and the organization of representatives. How long were they allowed to prepare for the meeting after they were told it would actually happen? Do you think they should completely ready just in case, even though he has been refusing similar requests for seventeen years?

      I agree with some of your criticisms, but you demand that gays use only kid gloves with someone who repeatedly kicks us in the face. Nothing you can accuse any gay person of compares with your willful slandering of Peter Tatchell in this thread– “he wants to lower the age of consent so that he can sleep with young boys”–or were you hung over then, too?

      You want to say we’re just as bad as you, but we aren’t. One or two racist comments– quickly removed and universally denounced– are bad, and we hate them. To say they are equal to a popular singer’s declaration of war or a “professional” journalist’s campaign of several years to deride gay activists is absurd.

      Oct 22, 2009 at 7:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Harvey LiveSF
      Harvey LiveSF

      Oh and no strategy, but there is an agenda:

      “if you loudly call for genocide against the LGBT community, we will take you seriously”

      that’s the gay agenda Eric K. Arnold

      Oct 22, 2009 at 7:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason

      The really sad thing is that Buju actually makes some good music. But he blotted his copybook with that horrible song. He should have known better.

      Oct 22, 2009 at 7:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      And, Eric, the reason I kept bringing up the issue of your misreporting was not to claim you had not acknowledged the error. I am personally angry that I called and emailed SF Weekly to complain that you were being dishonest in your reporting on Buju Banton after your article in early September, only to have those concerns brushed aside and then proved to be completely justified. Again, you have been reporting on this story for years. You know they lie about gay people. Yet you were willing to rush hung over to the computer and post something to trash a gay person without bothering to check the truth of what they wrote. You made that mistake because your of bigotry and laziness.

      Oct 22, 2009 at 8:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sal(the original)
      sal(the original)

      Dear EA Sizzla has what he calls the anti gay anthem of Jamaica “Nah Apologize” in which he sings “Rastaman dont apologize to no batty boy,if yuh dis King Selassie I,mih gun shot yuh boy”

      Oct 22, 2009 at 8:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sal(the original)
      sal(the original)

      …thats why those Europeans are protesting him

      Oct 22, 2009 at 8:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sal(the original)
      sal(the original)

      and when you have local political parties hiring sizzla to win over young voters you cant deny their music

      Oct 22, 2009 at 8:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sal(the original)
      sal(the original)

      an EA its not just one song as you say there are a bunch of songs that STILL play on example Bennie man mi nah wallah,where he suggests he would like to cut all gay men throats….

      Oct 22, 2009 at 8:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sal(the original)
      sal(the original)

      bad man chi chi man where beenie instructs listeners to kill gay djs

      Oct 22, 2009 at 8:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sal(the original)
      sal(the original)

      maybe EA you should replace any coverage of buju hate with tanya stevens song “do you still care”

      Oct 22, 2009 at 8:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • HarveyLiveSF
      HarveyLiveSF

      And by the way here is Eric K. Arnold’s latest nasty lie about the gay community….

      Remember when he implied the ACLU opposes the efforts by LGBT peoples across the world to protect themselves from buju and from his message of genocide?

      Well here’s the money quote: “The First Amendment permits everyone to demonstrate against Buju Banton and Beenie Man, to condemn their message, to boycott the sponsors and, in hundreds of other ways, to engage in counter speech. But it does not permit anyone to harness the machinery of government to silence their ugly voices.” http://miamiherald.typepad.com/gaysouthflorida/2009/10/censorship-the-wrong-way-to-fight-hatred-aclu-of-florida-says-of-buju-banton-controversy.html

      The ACLU authors oppose using government means to cancel buju shows for BoomByeBye…which most gays agree with…and ALL FOR pointing out to outfits like Live Nation and the Rockit Rooom that the local gay community will be gratuitously insulted by whatever promoter or club brings the symbol of gay hate to our hometown.

      The more you type Eric K. Arnold, the most lies you spread about this issue and the LGBT community. Your behavior is outrageous.

      Oct 22, 2009 at 11:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      “he implied the ACLU opposes the efforts by LGBT peoples across the world to protect themselves from buju and from his message of genocide”

      what an outright falsehood. what i said was the ACLU upheld buju’s first amendment rights, though they may disagree with what he’s saying. did you read the actual piece?

      if not, here’s the link again: http://www.aclufl.org/news_events/Index.cfm?action=viewRelease&emailAlertID=3786

      here’s how the ACLU began its opinion: “It is disheartening that some of our colleagues in the gay and lesbian equality movement have embraced censorship as a tactic to combat hate speech. ”

      in case you missed it: “disheartening…censorship…”

      those are key words. the ACLU is obviously aware of the larger implications of these tactics.

      they go on to say: “There is no basis to make the leap from a hateful and offensive pop song to incitement to riot” and “Combating hateful speech by suppressing it is a mistaken strategy. ”

      so once again, they are calling the tactics being used into question. i’m not sure how it’s possible for you to spin this into something other than what is clearly implied by the ACLU.

      “jamaican and POC queers have been involved in this issue for some time, and the jamaican press chose not to cover it.”

      another falsehood. the JFLAG quotes saying they were “unimpressed” originally appeared in a Jamaican newspaper. also, i’m not sure how you are going to directly contradict what GJW is saying. i would expect that they’re a little bit more informed than you, who seem to be arriving late to this.

      again, you’re missing the point, which is that any involvement of JFLAG in this campaign would have resulted in targeting a legislative agenda, which is their goal as an organization.

      it must be difficult for you to receive criticism from anyone , let alone the very people whose cause you claim to support.

      “You accuse the gay victims of buju of “hate speech”?? Seriously??”

      define “victim.”

      do you mean someone personally offended by buju’s lyrics or someone who buju has personally bashed? regardless, it’s a fact that club promoters across the country received death threats, hateful voice messages, etc. in 2006 and in 2009. technically, this is hate speech. yes, it’s ironic, but it happened.

      “you accused an entire social justice movement of assault”

      if six to eight protesters constitute an “entire social justice movement,” social justice is in serious trouble.

      gotta love the hyperbole, at least you’re consistent in that regard.

      Oct 23, 2009 at 2:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • gina
      gina

      I’ve read Eric Arnold’s lame attempts to deny the story of Buju Banton’s active participation in a mob attack on gay people in 2004.

      Here’s a story from The Jamaica Observer about his participation in the incident: http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/html/20050923T000000-0500_88961_OBS_BUJU_BANTON_CHARGED_WITH_ASSAULT_.asp

      Here are statements from Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch about Banton’s participation in the attack: http://www.ilga.org/news_results.asp?LanguageID=1&FileCategory=54&FileID=306

      nuff said.

      Oct 23, 2009 at 2:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Harvey LiveSF
      Harvey LiveSF

      Eric K. Arnold:

      WOW. Now I understand why the SF Weekly was so quick to ban you from ever writing about this subject again. You literally cannot write about gays and buju without lying.

      YOU WRITE: “what i said was the ACLU upheld buju’s first amendment rights, though they may disagree with what he’s saying”

      THAT’s a LIE WHY: They are very clearly referring to an opinion expressed by one gay person in Florida to have the government ban buju. THATS what the first amendment is about. Did anyone out here advocate for that? Of course not! So buju’s not threatened by censorship…but once again your rush to tarnish the good name of the gay community leads you to slander us.

      Your argumentation about Jamaica is pretty messy, but I refer you to JFlag’s last quote criticizing buju, and their and GayJamaican Watch’s longtime support of protests against buju. JFlag did specifically criticize the “boycott Jamaica” movement, and good fot them, so that’s why you’re confused.

      YOU WRITE: (about who’s the victim of boombyebye): “do you mean someone personally offended by buju’s lyrics or someone who buju has personally bashed? regardless, it’s a fact that club promoters across the country received death threats, hateful voice messages, etc. in 2006 and in 2009. technically, this is hate speech. yes, it’s ironic, but it happened.”

      YOUR FUCKING LIAR: first of all…every LGBT person in the world is threatened when a song calls for our death over and over millions of times. Eric K. Arnold you are a homophobic bastard for refusing to aknowledge that. I can’t think of a similar song that glorified genocide against any other group…but I’m sure you’d be outraged. But oh no, don’t spare a thought for the persecuted minority being marched off to their deaths…your concern is an unstantiated rumor that a promoter might have gotten a nasty voice mail message after they bring the international symbol of gay-bashing to town. Typical of your “reporting.”

      YOU WRITE: if six to eight protesters constitute an “entire social justice movement,” social justice is in serious trouble.

      DUMBASS: The reason buju has such trouble is that LGBT around the world in many countries of every background are shocked anew when they learn about boom bye bye and buju’s refusal to make amends for it. Pollo Del Mar and her 6 friends were standing in for the global gay community, the vast majority of whom support this campaign.

      Eric K. Arnold, you have proven yourself an unprofessional liar posing as a “journalist,” and an antagonist of the gay community who will spread lies about us if he’s given the stage.

      WHY again, do you continue to hang out on the gay blogs taunting the victims of buju and telling us to turn the other cheek over his song calling for our genocide.

      Once again Eric K. Arnold, homophobe and disgraced former reporter, fuck off and go away.

      Oct 23, 2009 at 5:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      Harvey,

      You’re my hero.

      Now kiss me and let’s rise off into the sunset.

      Oct 23, 2009 at 10:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • HarveyLiveSF
      HarveyLiveSF

      deal!

      And let’s leave Jayson Blair, er, I mean, Eric K. Arnold here.

      Oct 23, 2009 at 11:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • HarveyLiveSF
      HarveyLiveSF

      although I will type his name Eric K. Arnold one more time, so a future editor might be able to google “Eric K. Arnold buju banton” and not make the same mistake SF Weekly did.

      toodles, Eric K. Arnold!

      Oct 23, 2009 at 11:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      harvey, the ACLU’s opinion is pretty clear: censorship is not the best way to fight hate speech. that tactic has disturbing implications, since free speech gives LGBT groups the right to protest in the first place. you don’t have to take my word for it, but i dont see how you can argue with people who are legal experts in civil liberties.

      i’d be very careful here if i were you. you are making an argument which undermines your own position and is not in the interest of the “global gay community.”

      and for further clarity, the guy who wrote the opinion is the head of the LGBT Advocacy Project in Florida. it’s interesting how quoting the actual statement from the ACLU equates to “slander” in your book.

      also, despite what you call an “unsubstantiated rumor,” last night i actually spoke to the club booker who said she received 30-40 hateful voice mails from angry queers,including some death threats. she is presently undergoing surgery for a cancerous tumor, and that added greatly to her stress. she does not deserve to be the object of your irrational hatred.

      she told me it was difficult to accept the gay community’s absolute lack of tolerance, especially because she is not only bi herself, but has booked LGBT events like GirlFest in the past. the club also donated all proceeds from the Banton show to JFLAG. at first, they were going to donate the proceeds to CUAV, but they were unable to have a rational discussion with anyone from that organization.

      looking at your responses, it’s clear that you are unable to have a calm, rational discussion as well.

      Oct 24, 2009 at 7:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      Eric:

      I don’t think you meant this offensively at all, but for future reference, please know that your use of the word “queers” sounds bigoted– it’s not nearly as offensive as referring to people of color as “coloreds,” but the principal is similar. Using “queer” as an adjective referring collectively to LGBT theory and some causes is uncontroversial. For a straight person to use it as an adjective referring to gay people is probably fine, depending on context. Given your idiosyncratic views of issues of interest to gay people, some people might be bothered if you wrote about “queer people,” but they would be wrong. A gay writer can use “queers” as a noun, but most would not. I would not be comfortable with any straight writer using the phrase “angry queers.”

      It is very strange that you are willing to provide links to material that you are then going to deliberately misinterpret. Anyone who thinks you might have a point about the ACLU article needs to look no further than its second sentence to see that the civil rights organization is criticizing gay people for trying to get the government to censor Buju Banton. As Harvey made clear with quotes above, the ACLU is not critical at all of the type of protest most of us are engaged in.

      I believe I was the first in this thread to bring up the ACLU’s position on this issue, and I made it clear that I agree with them. If the government tells clubs they cannot book Buju Banton, it is a violation of First Amendment rights. For me to call businesses that advertise with SF WEEKLY and explain why I will not patronize them as long as they continue to advertise with the publication is a proper use of my First Amendment rights.

      Defending Buju Banton is a proper use of your First Amendment rights so long as you do so honestly. One of the problems with the shoddiness of your journalism is that journalism is also pretty bad in Jamaica. I think your reporting is partly responsible for the current spate of anti-gay, pro-Banton stories in the Jamaica Gleaner.

      I know Eric will blame gay protesters, rather than the bigots who wrote and are quoted in these stories, but that’s because he’s a bigot, too. Doubtless, he blames the people who protested at lunch counters for the bombings of Black churches in the 1960s as well. It is impossible for him to have a rational discussion with us because he starts from the point of view that virulent hatred of gay men is, if not a good thing, within the realm of acceptable opinion.

      It is not more okay Buju Banton to hate me because I am gay than it would be for me to hate him because he was black. You honestly seem to think that bigotry against gay people is acceptable in a way that racism is not. That is not a rational point of view. So long as you start with it, you will be forced to distort facts and lie in order to try to discuss this issue with rational people.

      Oct 25, 2009 at 10:51 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Robert, NYC
      Robert, NYC

      Landon, I find it odd that there was a march to end the use of the term “nigger”, a march led by African-Americans including Al Sharpton. I’ve never liked the reference “queer” in any context, I see NO justification for it. Used by most straights who don’t like us or what we are fighting for is just another attempt to dehumanize us when they disagree with our fight for equality. I don’t think people like Eric would like it if we resorted to “nigger” now would he? We could have easily done that collectively when African-Americans overwhelmingly vote to take away legislation that has been granted in our favor, especially on marriage equality, but we didn’t. We know better than that and are better people for it. Its a poor choice of words and lack of a good vocabulary.

      Oct 25, 2009 at 11:06 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      Robert:

      I’m sorry, but I find your message more offensive than Eric’s use of the word “queer.” I don’t think the word “queer” has ever been as hateful as the epithet you praise us for not using. And, since many gay people are also of African descent, I don’t really think we could collectively have decided that epithets linked to violence and slavery were justified. And I think your interpretation of Prop 8 is wrongly focused on racial identity rather than religion.

      Really, can’t we just agree to hate the Mormons and the Catholics?

      Oct 25, 2009 at 11:19 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Robert, NYC
      Robert, NYC

      Landon, sorry I don’t agree with you, “queer” has come to signify something extremely derogatory in recent times pertaining to gay people. Its beyond odd or weird, the original meaning. Its used to do nothing more than show contempt and hatred. How old are you? I grew up in the 50s and it wasn’t easy hearing that term tossed around, in fact downright painful. Obviously you have very thick skin or never experienced that era of oppression for LGBT people when it was a punishable offense to be caught inflagrante delicto in the privacy of one’s own home.

      What I implied was that if our community had used the term “nigger” against African Americans in retaliation for their intolerance towards us, you’d see the backlash from them and society at large. We are a better community than that. I used it merely to illustrate how wrong they and others are when they resort to what has now become a word connected with hate. If you infer that I advocated using an equally derogatory word against African Americans, then you haven’t read my post correctly.

      Sorry again, but hating people I find more offensive, negative and gets us nowhere. I can resent or dislike something intensely but I don’t have to resort to hatred, the very thing we’re up against. “Queer” is connected to hate. Why do you think Eric and others like him use it? Its meant to hurt and it does and the thing is, he knows it.

      I find it equally offensive that some gays use the term that stereotypes us as society wants to see us. Our use of it only emboldens them and people like Eric to use it. Its totally unacceptable in civilized society.

      Lastly, I don’t like religious people or anyone who advocates for discrimination, in fact I resent them but I don’t hate them, they are to be pitied more than anything. They’ve not grown or thought outside the box, the do not see the larger picture and they’ve not matured intellectualy. There is no intellectual argument against any form of discrimination either.

      Oct 25, 2009 at 12:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian Miller
      Brian Miller

      Enough already.

      God, I hate how PC bullshit has distorted simple moral clarity and replaced it with quavering endless “debate.”

      Banton’s song advocated the violent murder of gay people. There is no valid “culture” or anything uniquely “Jamaican” about brutal murder. It happens in every country, to a wide range of people. There is NO cultural value *whatsoever* in advocating murder, period. This is no artistic merit, no “unique national character,” no “nobility,” no “self-expression.”

      Further, I wish LGBT activists would ignore the guy. It’s obvious that he’s doing this to get a rise out of people and keep attention focused on him, despite the poor quality of his “music.”

      Finally, I’m not too concerned about what heterosexual apologists for the murder “musician” think. The efforts to paint critics as pedophiles, racists, etc. are old, tired and completely without merit. The hatred Banton encourages and celebrates is that of a majority (Jamaican heterosexuals) preying on a minority (Jamaican gays), and efforts to try and hide behind the skirt of political correctness are just laughable.

      Oct 25, 2009 at 1:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      “I would not be comfortable with any straight writer using the phrase “angry queers.”

      “”Queer” is connected to hate. Why do you think Eric and others like him use it? Its meant to hurt and it does and the thing is, he knows it.”

      oh puhleeze. i’m using the most PC terminology possible and you STILL have an issue.

      it’s not a hateful epithet, unlike some i could name, and is actually the preferred term when referring to homosexuals in a plural context incorporating a gender balance (whereas “gay” by itself is non-PC if lesbians are involved). please explain yourself: how is this connected to hate? is any reference to homosexual people by a non-homosexual automatically hateful? that seems to be the implication here.

      landon and harvey, you’re obviously overly-sensitive–you have a problem with me quoting gay sources, when you should be asking yourself why they are being critical of your so-called “social justice movement.”

      never mind that you’re arguing semantics–angry people are angry people, and gays and lesbians collectively can be referred to as queers–somehow you find a way to twist that so you can call me a bigot. never mind that you’re completely sidestepping the issue here, which is that using hate speech to protest hate speech is completely misguided.

      “the ACLU is not critical at all of the type of protest most of us are engaged in.”

      i never said, suggested, or implied this. so it’s strange that you would keep referring to a point which hasn’t even been made by me as somehow relevant to your counter-argument.

      still, you are tap-dancing around the issue here once again, which is that your own supporters are strongly criticizing your tactics.

      “I believe I was the first in this thread to bring up the ACLU’s position on this issue”

      really? interesting because if you referred to the ACLU, it was before they had even taken that position. nevertheless, claiming “first” doesn’t mean much, given that you later said ” I don’t care about the ACLU’s opinion on our social justice movement.”

      “I think your reporting is partly responsible for the current spate of anti-gay, pro-Banton stories in the Jamaica Gleaner. ”

      This is laughable. the Gleaner has been reporting on this issue since well before you even came into the frame. you might want to check out a 2008 article on filmmaker Selena Blake, who made a documentary on gays and lesbians in jamaica, before you open your mouth again:
      http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20080701/ent/ent1.html

      more recently, the Gleaner reported on the reaction by JFLAG with no discernible bias, so what, exactly, are you talking about?

      is your real issue that people in jamaica are suspicious of the gay agenda? why not just say that, instead of spreading more slanted disinformation without even making an attempt to back it up?

      in general, the Gleaner’s slant reflects public sentiment in Jamaica which is obviously not as gay as San Francisco. a recent poll found that 88% of respondents felt gay activists had “overstepped their bounds” with respect to Buju–a slight improvement from the 96% who were against legalizing homosexuality in 2006. what i find interesting here is that anything less than an overwhelmingly pro-gay slant gets called anti-gay by the gay media. face it–there’s zero balance or objectivity coming from the pink mafia.

      you want to talk about my reporting, however, my 2006 Chron piece was one of the most balanced pieces on the subject, interviewing Stacyann Chinn, and Keith Boykin, providing a context for the debate which included the perspective of people of color and specifically Caribbean queers, which have been largely absent in 2009 (as GJW recently pointed out).

      “he starts from the point of view that virulent hatred of gay men is, if not a good thing, within the realm of acceptable opinion.”

      this is completely unfounded. i have said nothing which supports this. why can’t you make your point without inserting falsehoods into my statements?

      maybe you need me to be a bigot to make your perspective seem reasonable, but the fact is, i’m not that. just like you need to have a “symbol of gay hatred” to project your own gay hatred.

      my criticisms in 2009 of the boycott have to do with the fact that there is no clear agenda and no advancement of the strategy employed–a position supported by the ACLU, JFLAG, GJW and Jasmyne Cannick.

      when will you read the writing on the wall? it’s interesting that JFLAG is basically advocating the same position that i supported in 2004–well before Buju was even on the gaydar–that a legislative strategy against the Jamaican government is needed to remove the legal justification of homophobia.

      does that sound like bigotry or bias? or just a well-informed opinion without the taint of a counter-productive, misguided agenda?

      @brian:
      “The efforts to paint critics as pedophiles, racists, etc. are old, tired and completely without merit.”

      just playing devil’s advocate here: by this logic, couldn’t one also say that protesting a 20-year old song is old, tired and completely without merit? or does your argument somehow hold more weight just because it’s coming from you? i find it interesting that you can completely dismiss these allegations without even examining them, despite lots of evidence suggestingotherwise.

      white gays never admit to racism, but it’s not exactly a well-kept secret within your own community. why do you think Dufty arranged for the meeting in the first place?

      as for your references to the black struggles of the 50s and 60s, please, don’t go there. you just look like a bunch of racist white gays reaching for something that’s not really there.

      Tatchell compared SMM to the civil rights movement–does that make him dr. martin luther king, jr.? black people everywhere should be outraged about that! he’s demeaning the memory of all the blacks who were actually lynched and/or burnt with tires, not just metaphorically.

      never mind that the CRM actually targeted a legislative strategy and was actually effective in changing laws–which in effect, changed racial perceptions.

      finally, leaving out questions about Tatchell’s true motivation for wanting to lower the age of consent, let’s look at HIS contradictory statements:

      “Buju was invited to sign the RCA on Sunday 12 August 2007 just before his London concert and he refused to do.”
      “Buju signed the Reggae Compassionate Act (RCA) in 2007. It is signed under his real name, Mark Myrie.”
      http://www.glaaforum.org/glaa_forum/2009/09/tatchell-responds-to-cannick-on-buju-banton.html

      so, according to Tatchell, Buju both signed the act and didn’t sign it. using simple logic, both statements cannot possibly be true, so one has to be a lie. no wonder he’s confused.

      Oct 25, 2009 at 3:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      Eric:

      Again, I don’t think you intended your use of the the word “queers” to sound bigoted, so please don’t be offended– just maybe check in with your queer friends before you use the word in print that way again.

      I did comment on October 19 that I agreed with the ACLU’s position, and did not make the comment about not caring about them that you ascribe to me. These are lies so easy to expose as one has to do is scroll.

      Buju Banton wrote a horribly homophobic song saying that people should kill me on sight, a song that has been used to celebrate the murder of gay people. He still says he is at war against me. Those are facts. You think his position is legitimate enough that it is wrong of me to protest his appearance in my town.

      That’s why it is fair to write “he starts from the point of view that virulent hatred of gay men is, if not a good thing, within the realm of acceptable opinion.”

      Oct 25, 2009 at 6:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      you’re right landon, guess i got you and harvey confused. you did mention the ACLU, without giving the entire context of the Florida opinion, especially the part where it was critical of LGBT tactics. i’d say that’s a fairly important thing to leave out.

      and for the record, i support your right to protest anything you don’t believe in. i think it’s important for someone like Pollo Del Mar to be able to go to a Buju Banton show and not face any threat of violence, as that shows that any claim of gay-bashing at buju shows is a complete fabrication-used to justify irrational fear-mongering.

      what i question, however, is why the tactics used by the anti-homophobia activists havent evolved in all this time and dont coincide with the strategy being argued for by the people whose plight the whole campaign is supposedly about. i think that’s a valid issue worth pondering.

      also, putting quotes around speculative hearsay doesnt make it any more factual. i never said “virulent hatred” of ANYONE was acceptable in American society. if i did, show me the citation–without paraphrasing or applying your own context.

      i have to say, for someone who’s so concerned about slander, you’ve certainly been doing a fair job of slandering me. you’ve certainly been one of the most biased commentators around–even before the meeting, you played the John Terry card. (by the way, there is less and less doubt Terry was killed by his gay lover, who he was seen with before the murder. so maybe you should apologize for calling what’s obviously a crime of passion a hate crime.)

      anyway, i wanna go back to something you said earlier:

      “Last week, Eric, I was arguing that people should be praising Buju Banton for his progress and his willingness to move forward. I was very impressed with his willingness to meet with gay rights advocates, although I am deeply troubled that he may have been coerced into that meeting.”

      you also said something about people who are building bridges–which presumably includes buju and his management.

      ok, now check this out: even before the pepper spraying and the “no end to the war between me and the faggots” comment (which i personally felt was in very poor taste), Petrelis made a highly inaccurate and misleading comment which was then reported everywhere:

      “We proposed that he think about making statements in Jamaica calling for love toward gays, donating to the JFLAG group, hold a town hall meeting in Kingston about the need to respect gays, and sing about loving gay people. All the suggestions were rejected, frustrating us.”

      where to begin here? first of all, let’s start with the demands themselves–not made by “we,” meaning the assembled coalition, but by Petrelis and Petrelis alone.

      as wily and cagey a media veteran as Petrelis is–he’s been at this since the 80s–you have to assume he’s aware those demands are far from realistic, even without JFLAG informing him in no uncertain terms. second of all, he doesn’t report buju’s reaction: “you are asking me to embrace something which is against my ideology.”

      let’s just back that up for a second. buju is speaking in ideological terms about his personal belief that homosexuality is a sin. that’s far from a call for violent murder, as has been charged many times on this thread alone.

      the same first amendment that says gays have the right to protest says he’s entitled to that belief, even if it is wrong or hypocritical. if he keeps anti-gay comments out of his concerts, which has been the case every time i’ve seen him, i dont have a problem with him playing shows in this country. i do have a problem with gays using buju to push an agenda which amounts to this: embrace gayness or else.

      ok, now fast forward to the concert. onstage, just before the pepper-spraying incident, buju mentions onstage he had a dialogue with LGBT leaders. if that’s not a public acknowledgement of gay people, then i dont know what is. so at this point, buju is trying to build bridges.

      however, he couldn’t have known that just hours earlier, petrelis had posted an account of the meeting which not only mischaracterized his position, but may have been taken as a call to arms by queer activists hell-bent on protest, no matter what.

      petrelis wrote that banton “rejected” all his demands. in actuality, in response to the demand that Banton contribute to an AIDS charity, Buju mentioned he’d had his own foundation since 1994. he also said, “i have been actively doing many of the things you’re asking.” Petrelis did not mention either exchange. so at this point, he is not building bridges, but sabotaging any such efforts.

      my interpretation of buju’s response is that banton was referring not just to petrelis’ demands, but the demands which have been made of buju since 2004, as first stated by OutRage and later repeated (almost word-for-word) by lorri jean: 1) that he no longer perform the song and 2)that he commit to positive music. since banton hasnt recorded any other anti-gay songs and devoted a fair portion of his career to promoting nonviolence, i can see where he’s coming from on this, though it can be argued that only a public refutation of that song will suffice.

      ok, now back to your comment: “I hope Buju knows that even gay people who think he really does want them dead also care about his freedom of speech.”

      you seem to be talking to the crickets here, landon. petrelis doesnt care about freedom of speech, otherwise he would have quoted buju accurately. lorri jean doesnt care about freedom of speech, otherwise she wouldn’t have pushed the censorship agenda and played the whole thing like a photo opp for the cameras. and harvey certainly doesnt care about freedom of speech –or the ACLU.

      so, once again we’re back to the “no end to the war” comment. that has to be seen in the light of a man fighting against what he believes is persecution for 17 years. gay people have been waging war against him for quite some time, that cannot be disputed. from the beginning, there has certainly been propaganda and disinformation spread by the queer side (i.e. characterizing all gay murders in jamaica as hate crimes, even when evidence suggests otherwise).

      if we’re talking about a war, we’re talking about a war of words: buju may get favorable treatment from the Jamaican press, but the international press has been considerably less fair to him, in many cases parroting the Tatchell line without checking the veracity of his claims or calling him out on his hyperbole and contradictions (the one exception being the 2004 Guardian article). and the gay press has been downright nasty, reporting that his entire tour had been canceled when that wasnt the case, etc. etc.

      now let me state my position one again, so it’s perfectly clear: homophobia is wrong. so is racism. so is censorship. that’s what i said in 2004, in 2005, in 2006, and again this year. i stand by those remarks, and will until hell freezes over or buju actually makes a song called “i love gay people,” –whichever comes first.

      Oct 25, 2009 at 8:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian Miller
      Brian Miller

      A quick reminder of the “artist” that EA claims “hasn’t called for violence.”

      Here are some lyrics from his song:

      World is in trouble
      Anytime Buju Banton come
      Batty bwoy get up an run
      At gunshot me head back
      Hear I tell him now crew

      (Its like) Boom bye bye
      Inna batty bwoy head
      Rude bwoy no promote no nasty man
      Dem haffi dead
      Boom bye bye
      Inna batty bwoy head
      Rude bwoy no promote no nasty man
      Dem haffi dead

      In other words — Banton talks about chasing gay man (“batty bwoy”) and executing them by shooting them in the head.

      This is the “artistry” that EA claims is “being censored.”

      Nobody is challenging Banton’s free speech rights (which, incidentally, are better protected here in the USA than in his native Jamaica). They are simply challenging Banton’s inexcusable and repeated calls for violence.

      If the situation was reversed and Mika was singing about shooting Jamaican reggae singers in the head, EA and his ilk would be up in arms.

      Again, the begging of the question, attacks on Tatchell, etc. are irrelevant. Banton is being challenged solely on the basis of his call to violence, which has absolutely no artistic or cultural merit whatsoever (claims to the contrary notwithstanding).

      Of course, the best thing to do is ignore both Banton (who is an irrelevant “artist” with limited talent at best) and his boosters. Continued criticism of him both increases the popularity of his message and provides his apologists like EA with a platform to claim “victimhood.”

      Oct 25, 2009 at 8:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      just wanted to point out, landon, that ever time i make a point which is irrefutable–such as the gleaner covering LGBT issues in a fair and balanced way, Tatchell’s contradictions, Petrelis’ mischaracterizations, Jean’s distortions, actual quotes from gays in jamaica, actual quotes from banton, amnesty int’l stats, JFLAG stats, reports from UK press, etc., you seem to have a pattern of ignoring them completely. yet you continually accuse me of not only bias but bigotry.

      yet when i ask for clarification or further explanation, you invariably make another speculative attack against me. all of which begs the question, does a gay agenda mean never having to acknowledge when someone else makes a valid point?

      i’m still waiting for you to define the difference between “gay human rights” and “human rights.”

      Oct 25, 2009 at 9:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian Miller
      Brian Miller

      EA, your posts are of no intellectual value at this point.

      Oct 25, 2009 at 9:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      so is it fair to say you’re a hater, brian?

      Oct 26, 2009 at 5:10 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      Eric:

      We have each written a great deal in this thread. I’ll be happy to talk with you more about this, but I doubt that we are going to reach any sort of resolution through this medium. My email is landonbryce at gmail.com; I’m in San Jose. If you’d like to talk on the phone or get together for a cup of coffee, let me know. We might be able to make some progress through conversation, but I think we’re going to keep talking past each other here.

      Oct 26, 2009 at 7:10 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Robert, NYC
      Robert, NYC

      Ok, Eric. So “queer” isn’t connected to hate? So that means then that if people resort to the “n” word when referring to black people they don’t like, that should also be construed as a non-hate word. We’re even then.

      Oct 26, 2009 at 8:59 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • gina
      gina

      This thread has degenerated into a pissing contest and nasty remarks. I wish people would get back to discussing the points of the OP.

      Oct 26, 2009 at 10:52 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      ok landon, i agree.

      and robert, i honestly thought queer was a preferred term. it was never my intention to use an epithet which could be considered hateful. i was actually trying to be PC and not dissolve into non-constructive name-calling.

      my interest in continuing this dialogue was to understand where y’all are coming from on this complicated issue. please understand that as a straight person, i’m not as affected by or as sensitive to homophobia as y’all.

      also understand that there was an entire decade when buju banton was not considered a symbol of hatred toward gays. it’s really just been in the last 5 years that the topic has become such an object of heated debate and controversy. while i don’t discount the pain and suffering that particular song may have caused, both here and abroad, and it’s difficult, as an American, to fathom the depths of jamaican homophobia, i think there is a need to step back and focus on a wider context and a bigger picture, if we are to arrive at constructive dialogue and solutions for moving forward.

      Oct 26, 2009 at 3:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Harvey LiveSF
      Harvey LiveSF

      Oh God “Eric K. Arnold” is back.

      FIRST of all Eric…your call for a consturctive dialogue will not happen in this situation, after you have add gay-baiting to the gay-bashing represented by the false and defamatory remarks you spread about gays in your SF Weekly lies. So clearly that can’t be your reason for being here. What is?

      Secondly Eric K. Arnold…the ACLU specifically said that censorship is having the government shut down a show. What we’re engaging in is counter-speech, per their oped, protest against hate speech, which they support, possible because of their ties to the gay community. Why do you refuse to aknowledge that difference?

      And it is charming that your sympathies lie with the booker of the DownLow club. How terrible for her to get nasty voicemail messages, a couple of dozen of them. I wonder if that compares to her booking a show for an artist that has pumped a message of gay genocide out into the world millions of times? Clearly, the DownLow Club was helping in buju’s oft-repeated “fight” and “war” against the LGBT community…why are they surprised that the community is upset? Perhaps the booker now has sympathy for the victims of hatred she has helped enable?

      And clearly, I am not bothered by your characterization of me as hysterical. Let’s remember you are the one who shockingly swept aside journalistic ethics in your rush to paint the gay community as negative with your lies about us “pepperspraying” buju.

      And we have all told you many times that the “bigger picture” is one where gays and lesbians are beaten to death every day in this world. That’s the picture you refuse to see.

      Eric K. Arnold, you remain a troll here, pumping up a man who has called for our death. I presume you’re a straight white boy who tries to appropriate black culture so he can seem cool, a presumption that I glean from your writings. (May be wrong, but who knows.) Would you be so quick to forgive someone who called for the death of all black people, then blamed his religion on it, and refused to renounce his words? Of course not. That can only mean you value gay lives less than straight ones.

      So again, Eric Arnold, we don’t want to take you out to lunch, and you just continue to spread your lies. So goodbye.

      Oct 28, 2009 at 2:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      ok harvey, so i’m white and i hate all gay people. any other gross inaccuracies you want to propagate? or are you done justifying your irrational hatred of non-homosexuals?

      Oct 29, 2009 at 4:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • scott ny'er
      scott ny'er

      dayum. 264 posts. there might be a record here.

      now where’s landon to continue these discussion. I’ll give credit to landon, ea and other peeps, you guys have been at it for awhile now.

      Oct 29, 2009 at 4:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Harvey LiveSF
      Harvey LiveSF

      Scott…Eric K. Arnold has taken his campaign agianst the gay community over to the Creative Loafing blog!

      Eric K. Arnold, thank you for amusing me with this bitter line: “or are you done justifying your irrational hatred of non-homosexuals?”

      who said it’s so irrational? last time I chekced, straight men were responsible for ALL the wars and MOST of the crimes in the world?

      I know you’re all caught up in your white guilt, but maybe you need to explore your straight guilt a little deeper?

      Oct 29, 2009 at 5:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • mcdreamy
      mcdreamy

      i love n respect buju hes a proud jamaican he speaks wat he n alot of ppl in the world believe. not just jamaicans but ppl across the world i respect EA 4 standing up for dis man he made wonderful songs love n peace songs not everybody agrees with da gay lifestyle. And this guy will always make money so youll cant stp him. Youll expect after youll gays came to his concert n threw pepper sray in there how would youll want things to turn out after dat Its war now. And fyi sizzla is far more worst dan buju eva was so why youll take him on lol i would luv to see that whaT seperates alot of rastas from evbody else is they dont care about da big life n success we live off da land so how can youll ban r stp dat???

      Oct 31, 2009 at 3:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      harvey, here’s how irrational you are: i’m not white!

      as for “straight guilt,” i’ve personally never bashed a gay person, i dont use homophobic epithets in everyday speech, and i voted against prop 8. despite all the mud, hatred, and slander flung at me during this thread, i’ve still tried to have a calm, rational discussion. so i think i’m actually pretty high up there on the tolerance level.

      now, are you actually going to sit here and tell me that no gay person has ever committed a crime or started a war? what about all the closeted gay republicans who are not only white collar criminals, but responsible for us being in Iraq?

      btw, mcdreamy, thanks for your support, but i wouldnt say i’m “standing up for buju,” other than correcting obvious inaccuracies with regards to the propaganda being spread.

      i don’t condone what he says in that song, and i do think people have a right to peaceful protest around it. censorship is a whole ‘nother can of worms.

      i also think that protest is an effective tactic at rallying support and bringing awareness to an issue, but besides that, there doesnt seem to be any clear goal or agenda as far as obtaining resolution in this issue.

      i also think it’s worth pointing out that buju has NOT made a career out of homophobia, rather gay activists have continually played the homophobia card against him for 17 years, grossly distorting his message in the process.

      as far as a war between gays and buju, there’s really been no indication from the LGBT side that making peace was ever an option they would consider. OTOH, buju has been courageous in even meeting with gay reps, especially considering they used that meeting for PR to promote Tatchell’s agenda: white gay control of reggae music–shades of neo-colonialism–and the ideology of “gay human rights.”

      btw, i’m still waiting for someone to explain how gay human rights differ from universal human rights.

      Nov 3, 2009 at 5:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      also, how come the LGBT blogosphere failed to report that banton met with their reps Oct. 17 at the belly up in san diego, performed a peaceful hate-free show, and affirmed his commitment to nonviolence against everyone? if nothing else, this shows the SF meeting wasn’t a fluke, but a sincere gesture on his part.

      i didnt see one single post on an LGBT site with this statement from the club:

      “Buju said that he wants to end the “war” between him and the LBGT community and felt — despite the pepper spray incident at his show in San Francisco — that his meeting in SF with LGBT leaders, as well as the meeting after the show at the Belly Up, were a good start to that process. During our first meeting with him on the afternoon of the show, we explained that his hurtful statements, no matter whether it is his intention or not, are harmful to the entire LGBT community and need to stop if there is to be true reconciliation. At the end of the meeting we all agreed that posting further positive statements from Buju, on his website and elsewhere, would be a good next step and he promised to do so in the coming days.

      Based on all that we heard and saw, we feel that there is good reason to remain engaged in dialogue with Buju Banton and to continuing working towards an eventual resolution to this issue. It was very difficult for the club to get this dialogue started, and in the process we endured a lot hateful comments and accusations about our character, but at the end of the day we have seen that many things said about Buju are simply not true today. We feel strongly that if both sides are willing to renounce their harsh comments towards each other that this whole matter can be resolved in a positive way. It is our hope that from this point forward Buju will consistently abide by his professed values, just as we hope that the LGBT will publicly support this process as long as progress is being made.”

      so, again, is this a protest campaign or a disinformation campaign?

      Nov 3, 2009 at 6:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tallskin
      Tallskin

      //////We feel that there is good reason to remain engaged in dialogue with Buju Banton

      ****Can’t agree with that.

      Let’s change the wording slightly

      “We feel that there is good reason to remain engaged in dialogue with the Klu Klux Klan ”

      or

      “We feel that there is good reason to remain engaged in dialogue with murderers and rapists”

      Yeah, remain engaged in dialogue with someone who wants you dead!

      Oh, or how about this: “We moderate, considerate Jews feel that there is good reason to remain engaged in dialogue with Hitler, despite his attitude towards Jews.”

      Yeah, right

      Nov 3, 2009 at 6:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      anyone who doesnt see any difference between Buju Banton, the KKK, and Hitler is looking through a myopic lens.

      but how do you expect to have resolution without dialogue?

      in other words, is your goal to make a big stink by loudly protesting homophobia–actual or perceived–or actually ending homophobia?

      Nov 3, 2009 at 7:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      so basically, tallskin, what you’re saying amount to: “there is no end to the war between the gays and buju banton” because the gays are more interested in making wildly distorted analogies than constructive and meaningful dialogue which moves the discussion forward.

      Nov 3, 2009 at 7:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Harvey LiveSF
      Harvey LiveSF

      Eric K. Arnold…

      We are all amused by your ongoing lecture to gay-lesbian social justice activists on behalf of the man who called for our death, whose call for our death is repeated daily, and who then goes on to say about us in starkly military terms, “the fight goes on and as i said in one of my songs the war will never end between me and faggot.”

      HOWEVER

      you have shown youself to be uniquely unqualified to engage the global LGBT social justice movement in any kind of dialogue. You have published nasty, slanderous lies about us. You come on here to call us racist, elitist, intolerant, and a whole slew of other slurs that can be checked upthread. AND FINALLY ERIC K. ARNOLD…here is the best justification for why we hold you in the same comtempt we hold buju, from McDreamy’s comment above:

      “Youll expect after youll gays came to his concert n threw pepper sray in there how would youll want things to turn out after dat Its war now.”

      This is YOUR work, Eric K. Arnold. Congratulations.

      Do you wonder why the gay community holds you in the same contempt we hold buju?

      Nov 3, 2009 at 8:59 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Harvey LiveSF
      Harvey LiveSF

      (For those who need a re-cap: Eric K. Arnold is the disgraced journalist who used the SF Weekly Web site to “publish” the news that “gay activists” had pepper-sprayed buju banton at his SF concert. Not true; all the activists left by then. The SF Weekly was livid, they pulled the post after complaints poured in, they retracted Eric’s lies…and, thankfully, banned him from EVER writing about the subject again. Public humiliation for this little troll now haunting this Web site taunting the gays.

      With his writing, he made the leap from “reporter” to an active participant in the news he was supposed to cover; his lies were picked up by buju fans across the globe. They’re being used, as McDreamy does above, to argue that the gay-lesbians of the world—the most downtrodden group of any society–were physically attacking buju…the man whose song Boom ByeBye has called for our death millions and millions of times with each playing.

      HILARIOUSLY, Eric K. Arnold’s justification for his lies about us? A “hangover”. Seriously!)

      ByeBye Eric! (no boom from us, of course…that’s your pals.)

      Nov 3, 2009 at 9:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ED
      ED

      We’ve collected a great deal of documentary evidence about buju’s recent record over at:

      http://cancelbujubanton.wetpaint.com/

      I encourage everyone to visit. It makes quite clear that in just the last couple years, buju has enthusiastically embraced his role whipping up hatred against gay lesbian people, including repeated and direct calls for violence against them.

      The evidence is incontrovertible. This is the context within which this debate–which has clearly gone off the rails–should be happening.

      How should civilized society deal with individuals who incite violence against minority groups? There’s no easy answer. I’m secure that the American response to buju has been helpful in drawing a bright line at calls for violence.

      Nov 3, 2009 at 11:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • buju worships babylon
      buju worships babylon

      (aka harvey lives)

      HAHAHA, i just found the funnies comment by Eric K. Arnold! He writes that the international, multi-racial, gay lesbians who protest buju’s calls for our death are guilty of: “shades of neo-colonialism”

      why is this funny?

      because buju is on his knees in front of colonialism, sucking its dick, and drinking its salty warmth of homophobia! he’s so close he can’t even see it!! thank god that India and South Africa have made such magnificent advances in throwing off their colonial legacy. I hope jamaica can overcome buju, and move towards the same freedom from it!

      Nov 3, 2009 at 11:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • buju worships babylon
      buju worships babylon

      aka Harvey Lives

      …also, up thread, you will see Eric K. Arnold slur the fabulous activist Andrea Shorter as a “token”…she’s the one in the middle with the gray sweater.

      Eric K. Arnold….will you please apologize to Andrea for this racist, ignorant comment? Publicly? (not secretly, as you claim buju likes to apologize.)

      Nov 3, 2009 at 11:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      @#277, sorry, but when you are the only person of color in a delegation of white folks, you are a token. in fact, that’s the very definition of tokenism. no knock against andrea, who seemed quite nice, but it would have been much more PC to include more than one LBGTPOC in the delegation. it would also have been nice had Petrelis let her speak more.

      harvey, think before you type. you toss out terms without seeming to understand their meaning. as an African American myself, i understand what it means to be a token. i’m well aware of the implications of the term. and of racism as well. merely pointing out that there is one POC in an otherwise white group is not racist. in fact, only a racist would be twisted enough to think that.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 2:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      “in just the last couple years, buju has enthusiastically embraced his role whipping up hatred against gay lesbian people, including repeated and direct calls for violence against them.”

      sorry, i’ve looked at the same tapes you have and i strongly disagree. i couldnt find one actual call to violence in any of the material posted. not one. that website you link to confuses boom bye bye with another song (“massa god world”) and claims the latter is “anti-gay” (which its not). in other words, more blatant disinformation without even an attempt at correction or proper context.

      lack of familiarity with reggae in general and buju’s catalog in particular may be at fault here, on top of general ignorance. if you repeat a lie often enough, does it become the truth? you seem to think so.

      it IS a fact, however, that in the past five years buju has been the target for protest and persecution by gay activists. hmm, could that have been the catalyst for him commenting on the subject?

      how come everyone else gets to comment, but somehow if buju says something, it’s a call to incite violence? how’s that, exactly? even the ACLU disagrees here. where are these “repeated and direct calls”? be specific, please.

      you mean his reference to Spongebob Squarepants? even if that WAS a call to violence, which its not, let’s not confuse a cartoon with a real person. and lets not confuse social/political commentary with an actual call to violence or incitement to riot.

      it seems that LGBT folks are so freaked out about what they think buju is, they’re willing to accept the official party line without any individual critical thinking or research taking place which might show a different story. the information is out there, but that doesn’t seem to matter.

      that’s a pretty dangerous mentality to foster, with disturbing implications on free speech and freedom of expression in general.

      as for neo-colonialism, well, that is what it is: a white european who fancies himself the leader of a gay civil rights movement issuing edicts toward a third world country, and advocating censorship while claiming “this is not a free speech issue.” that’s not just neo-colonialist, that’s potentially Orwellian.

      ps harvey…someone DID pepper-spray buju’s concert. it may not have been Pollo Del Mar, but it wasn’t buju’s fans, either. that point has gotten lost in all this controversy.

      and speaking of the cancelbuju site, it’s interesting that they havent even mentioned their meeting with buju or what was said on Oct. 17, when they attended his show and met with him backstage. what possible reason could they have to withhold this potentially important information?

      if i became an activist, it wasnt until after i was labeled a “homo-hater” by Petrelis — a man who was once charged with ‘suspicion of terrorist activity’ for making obscene phone calls to reporters and lawmakers (never mind that i’ve supported LGBT causes in the past, wrote “the homophobia…is undeniable” in reference to the campaign against beenie man in 2004, and have long supported the same position JFLAG currently holds, that legislative action to remove the legal justification of homophobia in jamaica should be the goal) and you and landon tried to make me the object of your irrational diatribes.

      pps, you write: “the gay-lesbians of the world—the most downtrodden group of any society”

      really? do you actually believe this? i’m not denying discrimination happens, but there are many gays and lesbians, especially in this country, who are well above the poverty line.

      how does a double-income, no-dependent gay couple qualify as “downtrodden” in your view, exactly?

      even in jamaica, it’s a lot easier to have a gay lifestyle if you are well-heeled and white, as john terry was. that dude had been gay in jamaica for over 30 years, dating much younger and much poorer black boys. was he killed by a homophobic mob? no, by one of his lovers. yet somehow that becomes a hate crime to LGBT activists.

      the reason i’m writing this, harvey, is not to convince people like you who have already made up their minds, but for the people on the LGBT side who aren’t so polarized by this issue that they cant see the larger picture clearly.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 2:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      harvey, it’s just come to my attention you may not be aware what a ‘double standard’ is. as in: let’s protest hate speech with hate speech. or: let’s advocate for freedom of expression by censoring free speech. or: let’s accuse EKA of slander while slandering him and Buju. or: let’s claim that all LGBT folks everywhere are downtrodden and refuse to even look at poverty in jamaica (or the correlation of poverty and violence) as a socioeconomic factor which must be examined in any discussion on human rights.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 3:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Harvey LiveSF
      Harvey LiveSF

      So…

      1. Eric K. Arnold won’t apologize for calling Andrea Shorter a “token.” Shameful.

      2. Eric K. Arnold refuses to see the discrimination that the world’s gay-lesbian people face. That Eric K. Arnold, is called enjoying your straight privilege!

      3. Finally it is stunning that you provide a post-modern “PC” defense of calls for…let’s call it what it is…LYNCHINGS. The fear of the lynchings buju hypes are a daily reality for everyone of the world’s GLBT people…and that is why this campaign, which has been moderately successful so far, will only build until buju is enough of a man to forcefully and clearly denounce LYNCHINGS.

      (For those who need a re-cap about why Eric K. Arnold is on here taunting the gay community on behalf of gay-bashers: Eric K. Arnold is the disgraced journalist who used the SF Weekly Web site to “publish” the news that “gay activists” had pepper-sprayed buju banton at his SF concert. Not true; all the activists left by then. The SF Weekly was livid, they pulled the post after complaints poured in, they retracted Eric’s lies…and, thankfully, banned him from EVER writing about the subject again. Public humiliation for this little troll now haunting this Web site taunting the gays.

      With his writing, he made the leap from “reporter” to an active participant in the news he was supposed to cover; his lies were picked up by buju fans across the globe. They’re being used, as McDreamy does above, to argue that the gay-lesbians of the world—the most downtrodden group of any society–were physically attacking buju…the man whose song Boom ByeBye has called for our death millions and millions of times with each playing.

      HILARIOUSLY, Eric K. Arnold’s justification for his lies about us? A “hangover”. Seriously!)

      ByeBye Eric! (no boom from us, of course…that’s your pals.)

      Nov 4, 2009 at 3:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Harvey LiveSF
      Harvey LiveSF

      ON MICHAEL PETRELIS:

      Let’s be clear…Michael Petrelis is an “AIDS denialist,” meaning he denies the link between AIDS and HIV, which means that he does not basically speak for any member of the gay community, and is basically an, let’s use the word outlier. Like most of the other gays across the world…black/white/other, jamaican/american/european…he is basically acting as an individual outraged by buju’s calls for us to be lynched.

      So don’t ask me to defend anything he says…BUT your attempt to publish lies about the gay community, and whip up hate against us through the pepper-spray slander, make his choice of the words “homo-hater” fairly obvious.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 3:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      @Ed: you write:
      “How should civilized society deal with individuals who incite violence against minority groups? There’s no easy answer.”

      i’ll agree with you here, that there’s no easy answer.

      however, you are clearly implying that buju has, in fact, incited actual–not implied or metaphorical–violence against minority groups and therefore constitutes a threat to public safety.

      if that was the case, the ACLU would not have upheld his right to free speech, nor would that have specifically stated that his lyrics do not constitute an actual threat of violence or incitement to riot.

      that’s a pretty important distinction. otherwise, no one would be able to listen to hardcore rap, punk, or metal, nor watch action movies or TV shows like 24, without that being considered a threat to public safety. i watched the Shield and the Wire, but i didnt kill anyone because those shows had violent imagery.

      you also write: “The evidence is incontrovertible.” sorry, but you need to cite specific references proving an incitement to actual violence for that to be incontrovertible. given that your web evidence can’t even identify buju’s music correctly, and calls a song with no homophobic sentiments whatsoever “anti-gay” i’d say that the opposite of what you suggest may actually, in fact, be true.

      you also write: “This is the context within which this debate–which has clearly gone off the rails–should be happening.”

      i’ll agree that homophobia should be factored into any discussion of universal human rights–especially where reggae artists are concerned–but that the only context which makes any sense whatsoever for such a discussion is one of universal human rights.

      separating homophobia in reggae as an issue which somehow falls outside of an overall human rights context is something which simply cannot be done with any acuity, or in the hope of achieving any resolution, or even understanding, of the issue.

      in other words, you can’t gain wider context by narrowing the scope of an issue. that’s at cross-purposes.

      also, i’m not sure that the American campaign against buju has drawn the line against violence–not a tangible line, anyway. it’s not like any antigay violence has EVER occurred at a banton show in the USA before this latest campaign.

      so how has a line been drawn? how is anyone safer because of this, in real terms?

      buju’s played SF and Miami before with no incidents (just to name a few cities). so what did the campaign actually accomplish, besides a missed opportunity to open up a meaningful dialogue with the reggae community? the fact that the gay blogosphere will regurgitate the same info ad nauseum, regardless of its validity or factuality? how many times must i see people claiming that buju has never apologized or never reached out to gay people, or recognized their existence, when he has on multiple occasions, including the last two weeks?

      i’ve cited evidence of this which not one of you has been honest enough to acknowledge.

      this campaign has shown that protests can result in increased media attention, censorship, and controversy over an issue without moving that issue forward in a progressive direction.

      maybe it will make jamaican artists think twice about playing america if they have homophobic subject matter, but then again, many of those records (by artists far less conscious overall as buju)never reach the american market. reggae labels already agreed not to allow such content on international releases a couple years ago. by now buju understands he cant make antigay comments onstage, and that even referencing a fragment of a song can be taken out of context. but if he performs hate-free shows, why cancel them? didnt you get what you wanted back in 2005? (assuming some of the people following this issue were around then)

      again, i support the right to protest based on principle, but there’s a huge difference between an artist whose entire catalog is hate speech and an artist whose catalog is 99.998% free of antigay rhetoric.

      this campaign HAS also shown that gay activists are so willing to play the homophobia card that they forget to place it in a context of universal human rights overall. it has shown that people rallying around a cause are willing to trample the First Amendment in the name of protesting hate speech. it has shown that the lack of a unified agenda with an end goal in mind results in mindless protesters blindly following a script they didnt even write. and it has shown that people have placed the need to protest over the need for meaningful dialogue and forward progress on this important human rights issue.

      had the campaign resulted in a meaningful two-way dialogue, with concessions made by both sides, i think its success and long-term implications would be far less debatable.

      in a civilized society, the viewpoints of minority groups are important, but they dont get to set the agenda for society as a whole. so while to gay rights activists, there may be no difference between metaphor and literalism with regards to buju’s lyrics, the First Amendment says differently.

      the First Amendment sets the standards of civility regarding free speech and freedom of expression. your right to protest is the same right as buju’s to make political and social commentary. if you deny one, you ultimately deny the other.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 3:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Harvey LiveSF
      Harvey LiveSF

      I don’t know about that Web site, but…

      1. The ACLU supported the “counter-speech” by buju opponents, that you criticize (the first amendment claims dealth with government attempts to shut down the show). Heeeyyyy, one more distortion of the facts by Eric K. Arnold.

      2. It’s not up to gays to make concessions to buju. He calls for our LYNCHINGS every time that song is played…it’s up to him to make the first move, and “secret apologies” or “the war between me and faggot will never end” don’t cut it.

      Thanks to Eric for trying to open a dialogue with (against?) gays, but his history of attacking the gay community makes him the wrong messenger. Eric…why don’t you find a token gay?

      (For those who need a re-cap about why Eric K. Arnold is on here taunting the gay community on behalf of gay-bashers: Eric K. Arnold is the disgraced journalist who used the SF Weekly Web site to “publish” the news that “gay activists” had pepper-sprayed buju banton at his SF concert. Not true; all the activists left by then. The SF Weekly was livid, they pulled the post after complaints poured in, they retracted Eric’s lies…and, thankfully, banned him from EVER writing about the subject again. Public humiliation for this little troll now haunting this Web site taunting the gays.

      With his writing, he made the leap from “reporter” to an active participant in the news he was supposed to cover; his lies were picked up by buju fans across the globe. They’re being used, as McDreamy does above, to argue that the gay-lesbians of the world—the most downtrodden group of any society–were physically attacking buju…the man whose song Boom ByeBye has called for our death millions and millions of times with each playing.

      HILARIOUSLY, Eric K. Arnold’s justification for his lies about us? A “hangover”. Seriously!)

      ByeBye Eric! (no boom from us, of course…that’s your pals.)

      Nov 4, 2009 at 4:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      “your attempt to publish lies about the gay community, and whip up hate against us through the pepper-spray slander, make his choice of the words “homo-hater” fairly obvious.”

      again, unlike Petrelis, i’ve never been charged with suspicion of terrorist activity. i’ve also never called for gay bathhouses in SF to be reopened (that’s like a Holocaust survivor wanting to reopen Daschau). I’ve never denied the link between HIV and AIDS, nor tried to prevent AIDS research in Africa.

      specifically, Petrelis was referring to my writing on the subject in 2004 and 2005, before Buju was even involved. i’m not sure how its possible to acknowledge the presence of homophobic lyrical content and be a “homo-hater” at the same time, but that’s how Petrelis called it.

      Petrelis’ agenda is to manufacture controversy, not push for resolution and long-term solutions. think about it: the more people are incensed over what he writes, the more page views he gets. he wasnt there to make peace, but to make war. he slandered Buju by not accurately reporting what was said at the meeting. and he made demands which were criticized by just about everybody as being completely unrealistic. in other words, he’s a selfish diva.

      also, hate is a pretty strong word which was completely undeserved; i have nothing against Pollo Del Mar, who actually seemed like a swell guy, er, gal. i actually thought it was pretty neat that a drag queen could be protesting an allegedly homophobic artist without fear of being gay-bashed.

      and while i regret the error on my part, it was not, i repeat, not an attempt to slander the gay community on a whole. obviously, it was taken that way, but that’s been blown way out of proportion.

      its obvious you have a double standard when it comes to slander. as i said, if i was a homo-hater, i doubt i would have even acknowledged homophobic lyrics in reggae in the past, nor supported the same position five years ago, in 2004, which JFLAG reiterated in 2009. (feel free to acknowledge at any time when i’ve made a valid point).

      Nov 4, 2009 at 3:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Harvey LiveSF
      Harvey LiveSF

      Eric…as I’ve said before…it’s not my job to defend Michael Petrelis. Your other arguments have been noted, and dismissed upthread. You personally Eric K. Arnold are the wrong messenger to open a dialogue with the gay community, because of your long train of nasty, nasty lies about us.

      ——-

      (For those who need a re-cap about why Eric K. Arnold is on here taunting the gay community on behalf of gay-bashers: Eric K. Arnold is the disgraced journalist who used the SF Weekly Web site to “publish” the news that “gay activists” had pepper-sprayed buju banton at his SF concert. Not true; all the activists left by then. The SF Weekly was livid, they pulled the post after complaints poured in, they retracted Eric’s lies…and, thankfully, banned him from EVER writing about the subject again. Public humiliation for this little troll now haunting this Web site taunting the gays.

      With his writing, he made the leap from “reporter” to an active participant in the news he was supposed to cover; his lies were picked up by buju fans across the globe. They’re being used, as McDreamy does above, to argue that the gay-lesbians of the world—the most downtrodden group of any society–were physically attacking buju…the man whose song Boom ByeBye has called for our death millions and millions of times with each playing.

      HILARIOUSLY, Eric K. Arnold’s justification for his lies about us? A “hangover”. Seriously!)

      ByeBye Eric! (no boom from us, of course…that’s your pals.)

      Nov 4, 2009 at 3:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EA
      EA

      @284:
      1.harvey, the ACLU specifically said censorship should not be used as a protest tactic on behalf of free speech. the specifically criticized their LGBT “colleagues” for using this tactic. and i never said the ACLU took a stand against the right to protest.
      2. i’m not sure how a one-way conversation serves anyone’s best interest here. that’s just basic rules of diplomacy.
      3. your distortions, slander, and bigotry is evident from this threat, as is your close-mindedness, lack of tolerance, and failure to grasp the larger parts of an issue. you also seem to be unable to grasp the difference between literalism and metaphor, as well as the cultural, social, economic, and political fine points of this vast and complex subject. at some point, you may want to seek therapy for your personal issues and/or do some research on your own.
      4.also, you are clearly not in a position to set the agenda on behalf of LGBT folks. you represent your own viewpoint and that’s about it. the only reason anyone is taking you seriously is because i’m bothering to respond to you. while i wouldnt say you’re civil, at least you’ve stopped yelling. so i’m gonna stop trying to reason with you. you’re on your own now. good luck.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 4:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Harvey LiveSF
      Harvey LiveSF

      ByeBye Eric! (no boom from us, of course…that’s your pals.)

      {For those who need a re-cap about why Eric K. Arnold WAS on here taunting the gay community on behalf of gay-bashers: Eric K. Arnold is the disgraced journalist who used the SF Weekly Web site to “publish” the news that “gay activists” had pepper-sprayed buju banton at his SF concert. Not true; all the activists left by then. The SF Weekly was livid, they pulled the post after complaints poured in, they retracted Eric’s lies…and, thankfully, banned him from EVER writing about the subject again. Public humiliation for this little troll now haunting this Web site taunting the gays.

      With his writing, he made the leap from “reporter” to an active participant in the news he was supposed to cover; his lies were picked up by buju fans across the globe. They’re being used, as McDreamy does above, to argue that the gay-lesbians of the world—the most downtrodden group of any society–were physically attacking buju…the man whose song Boom ByeBye has called for our death millions and millions of times with each playing.

      HILARIOUSLY, Eric K. Arnold’s justification for his lies about us? A “hangover”. Seriously!

      And finally…see upthread for the rebuttal to all his arguments, as well as the nasty names he calls us…}

      Nov 4, 2009 at 4:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • papa smurph
      papa smurph

      so let me get this straight (no pun intended):

      some well-reputed writer makes an error, corrects it, apologizes, and you guys wont ever forgive or forget this alleged capital crime of homophobia. hmmm, sounds suspiciously like what the gay lobby has been doing to buju banton for 17 years.

      and who are these people leading the charge to discredit this veteran journo–who’s been a boon to the local music scene for decades?–a suspected terrorist, a drag queen, a gay pornographer, and some jackass named harvey (seriously).

      landon, why didnt you mention you run a gay porn website? (www.trousertube.com). that is your name on the home page, correct?

      yeah, that gives you serious human rights credibility. no wonder you’re in agreement with peter tatchell. maybe EA was right about him.

      hmmm, is there a need to mention the links between pornography and violence? or rates of sexual abuse and domestic violence in same-sex couples? nah, let’s just ignore that, just like the approx. 1,498 non-homophobic murders which happen in jamaica every year.

      and by the way, who did pepper-spray banton’s concert, anyway?

      Nov 11, 2009 at 7:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Gay Human Rights
      Gay Human Rights

      Hey look Eric K. Arnold has another sockpuppet to use to harass the gay community with, right down to re-reporting the number of “non-homophobic” murders that happen annually in Jamaica, and then imply that the gay community doesn’t care about murder victims!

      All of this abuse just makes our point: buju’s taunting of the gay community riles up hatred against us.

      Why wouldn’t we protest?

      Nov 16, 2009 at 7:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Gay Jamaica
      Gay Jamaica

      since the homophobes have attempted to silence the voice of gay jamaicans, let’s hear from the leading gay jamaican blogger:http://gayjamaicawatch.blogspot.com/:

      I earlier…”spoke to the whole accusations and counter accusations between Buju Banton and the gay community in the United States predominantly San Francisco the described gay capital of the world where Buju’s tour has met with fierce opposition.

      Now the dust has settled somewhat what do we see? Buju seems to have won this round (lost the war overall) with more dates slowly added to his tour and the American Civil Liberties group in Miami coming in support of him in a statement issued some time ago (who cares?) they seemed to have missed the boat in as far as understanding the requests or commands in Buju’s lyrics to kill gay men and the methods prescribed, of note shooting directly in the head with an Uzi.

      My calling for letting the dust settle was to get us to see the landscape more clearly and get rid of the noise and smoke from opposers and supporters alike from all sides. Of note the gay people who met with him in San Francisco have not responded to the criticisms levied by some in the music industry locally and in some instances seem to suggest the meetings never happened and the photos of Buju bumping fists with gays were doctored which I found so ridiculous, folks will do anything to deny or avoid discussing issues directly that they find all kind of silly excuses.

      There is also talk of Buju loosing allegedly millions from cancellations a point I have a little difficulty digesting as most of the venues are small club houses not arenas of stadiums like he used to get in his heyday of Til Shiloh CD prominence.
      Will the gay groups get another chance to meet him face to face again? I doubt it unless they resort to picketing him and his shows again or some miracle in the future. I feel he now knows how to play the game with PR and press while working his contacts in the community even though he doesn’t support us. It would have been good if the folks who met with him used the time to discuss the situation here in Jamaica and how to help to defuse the fiery homophobic climate in our nation with a serious view to meaningful tolerance.

      Some within the opposition are trying to get information on hate crimes from the agencies of government of all places including the police, this clearly shows the still lack of knowledge of the Jamaican situation and apprising oneself at best some more before launching into actions. I hope that the endeavours are tracked and noted carefully.

      Be it resolved though that the interventions from our foreign supporters are welcomed however how interested is the average GLBT Jamaican on the ground if one should poll or even just ask about the present impasse many don’t even care or are just becoming aware due to mainstream media coverage especially from US cable stations as many Jamaicans have cable service, the question is whose fault is that and how do we fix that? boi mi nuh know yah sah

      JFLAG’s silence until recently when I feel it was forced to respond because of pronounced media coverage and the photos from the meeting on blogs and news sites worldwide was disturbing to me, the group said it was not impressed. My criticism of them and ordinary GLBT Jamaicans goes further as there hasn’t been any serious public support for the interventions by the Cancel Buju Banton campaign not even so much as a response, Jamaican membership or statement on the website. I guess some are timid and don’t wish to publicly show support and are emotionally there in spirit as some of the Facebook comments and private messages suggest but can we be in the shadows and cowards all the days of our lives?

      Now is the time to begin picking our brains to finding formidable solutions now that the issue of Murder music has gotten the public attention it deserves from an American standpoint as actions like this are normal in Europe and the UK through their own Stop Murder Music campaigns respectively. Recently Sizzla was in the news as his show was cancelled by SMM Bern.

      We have to keep the issues alive in Jamaica or it may just die as a nine day wonder as some have, while doing so however new ideas must be found to strike a balance needed to push tolerance. (fan away the extra dust)

      Peace and walk good

      Dec 4, 2009 at 8:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Pariah
      Pariah

      This thread has been thoroughly amusing, watching EA the determined chauvanist and apologist for third world victimology get his dumb ass handed to him. Cheers! EA, if you still follow the thread, how’s that last “dancehall” night in Oaktown going? Keep fighting coalitions of reasonable people who are *gasp* diverse with your backwards mystical inspired nationalist bullshit, I’ll get a kick out of it. Jamaica has always been an abject place for poeple who want a free thinking life, I think that is why you belong there. You should make your post colonial commitment to use political wedges real! Become a backward political hostage yourself, that’ll get you exactly what you seem to want and require out of this dialogue. Happy? Good, you’re welcome. Don’t forget to pick up your cynicism game, it’s all you got now! :-)

      Dec 4, 2009 at 9:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • True To This
      True To This

      Yooooo. Buju Yuh Ah Mi Boy. Dont Perform For Them Battyman. Stay True To Di Ting. All They’re Doing Is Sinning. Dont show respect for them type of things. MAN TO MAN IS NOT THE WAY ITS SUPPOSED TO BE. NEITHER IS GIRL TO GIRL. BUT I TRUTHFULLY HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT. ITS THE DISGUSTING MAN TO MAN THING THAT IS A PROBLEM TO ME. HOW CAN ALL OF YOU PEOPLE COME ON HERE AND STAND UP FOR THEM. THATS HORRIBLE YOU GUYS THINK THAT HE IS A HORRIBLE PERSON FOR THIS BUT HE REALLY ISNT…..KEEP DOING WHAT YOUR DOING BUJU. DONT APOLOGIZE! RASTA MAN DONT APOLOGIZE TO NO BATTYBOY…..THEM HAVE TO APOLOGIZE TO JAH!!!!!(GOD)

      Dec 7, 2009 at 12:24 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Hey Eric!
      Hey Eric!

      will you now admit that the gay community had real insight into’s buju’s character?

      Doesn’t surprise me a bit that someone who calls for genocide, would go around endangering people by pushing coke. Buju bye-bye!

      Dec 14, 2009 at 4:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • nedwiththebigguns
      nedwiththebigguns

      Gay people all over the world and especially those in Jamaica are shamelessly rejoicing tonight with the news that Buju Banton has been arrested for conspiracy to sell cocaine and now faces 20 TWENTY YEARS in prison. I personally have waited years for this glorious news about this hateful anti-homophobic creature. Buju arrest and public humiliation is equivalent to finding out that monsters like Hitler (now dead) and Osama Bin Laden have been captured. Buju will now face the sheer utter humiliation of being strip searched, abused and with his slim physical build will definitely be some prison inmate’s WIFE. His music, his dope, his fame means nothing to hardened inmates that Buju will now have to deal with for the next 20 years. The Gay community is joyful tonight now that one of its most vile attackers sitting behind bars–maybe forever.

      Dec 14, 2009 at 9:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jiga
      Jiga

      “Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
      “Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
      “For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
      “And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.” Romans 1:24-27

      “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.” Leviticus 18:22

      The Sodomites are an abomination to God!

      Webster’s definition of an abomination–“Extreme disgust and hatred; abhorrence; detestation; loathing. That which is abominable; anything hateful or shamefully vile.”

      A man must not wear a woman’s garment. A woman must not wear that which pertaineth to a man.
      “The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God.” Deuteronomy 22:5

      The sins of Sodomy are also suggested or declared by all who abominably attire themselves!

      Dec 21, 2009 at 11:19 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Robert, NYC
      Robert, NYC

      Jiga, you fucktard. Read….www.fallwell.com. I’m sure you’ll have a hard time living by the other fucked up shit that you’ll find there. The problem with you religious wackos is that none of you live by everything that the religious comic book you read dictates. You’re delusional. Your’s is learned behavior, nobody is born religious or comes into this world to hate and discriminate. SO fuck off and go rent some hot porn and j/o incessantly until you die,fucking moron.

      Ned, #295, I’m jubilant. He’ll have 20 years or more being someone’s bitch, ha ha. Actually, he might like it, find out what he’s been missing.

      Dec 21, 2009 at 12:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Adam
      Adam

      Buju Banton – vile, stupid filth.

      Invade Africa and the Caribbean, round up negroes all over the world – kill them all.

      Sounds horrible doesn’t it?

      It is what Ugandans want to do to us.

      It is a known fact that most negroes hate us (wherever they live in the world). They think we are unnatural and not fit to live.

      I will never give aid to Africa again. I’m sure their high principles wouldn’t allow them to accept money from an unnatural abomination like me anyway. They love what is “natural” so much, in the next famine I recommend we all do them them a big favor and let nature take its course.

      Dec 27, 2009 at 6:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • flora f.richards
      flora f.richards

      in answer to DaveAndrewdantescove,buju speak english just fine,its normal to drop alittle patois while speaking especially if he was upset as i assumed he was.English is his language ,he also speak patois.He was’nt writing an essay.All this hate over a song if being gay is right why do you care who accept it,live your life leave the man alone.Years ago when little boys being raped came to people’attenion it was a very bitter pill to swallow and it is still happening to day.I know not all gays are rapist but it was the reason for the song almost 20yrs ago,how many artist wrote songs about the gay lifestyles?But only one is hated and persecuted.I Hope my english is’nt too hard to overstand understand my drift?

      Jan 12, 2010 at 10:37 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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