Clearly Bill Palestine was empty till the Arabs invaded it:

the 3500 years of jewish history and presence means nothing

nor the fact that genetic evidence proves that most jews are semites….

but of course a two state solution is a problem for you bill, you’d rather have your socialist paradise and be imprisoned…
after all socialist states have such great histories with respect to gay rights

People know that the zionist colony is as toxic and brutal as the old South African government was and that the zionist colonialists will have to adapt the same way their South African racist counterparts did.

Palestine is going to be free, secular and unitary and if the zionists don’t give up and adapt they have some very rough times ahead for them.

Palestine for the Palestinians.

It absolutely is not “a lie” that out gay Arab people live open lives in Israel.

There are many out gay Arab citizens of Israel. You are arguing, however, as though there were no gay Arab citizens of Israel at all.

To make reference to people from Gaza and/or the West Bank that may be seeking refuge in Israel, and whether they receive it, is to miss the whole point.

The whole point is that the civil laws of Israel protect the human rights of Israel’s gay citizens whether those citizens are Jewish, Arab or Chinese.

In Gaza and the Arab West Bank, gay people do not have those protections.

I don’t know why you are so emotionally caught up in propagandizing against Israel, to such an extent that you present obstructionist arguments involving the human rights of gay people in the Middle East. This is Queerty, for homos, so naturally, gay rights are of paramount interest to us. You are, effectively, arguing a position that would, carried out in policy in the real world, lead to gay people being stripped of their human rights. Who but a total asshole would make such an argument?

@Bill Perdue:

colonialist?

over have of israelis were expelled from the arab world….

gotta love the self hating commie fag bill perdue…

you would enjoy so many rights among your arab friends wouldn’t you?

yeah clearly since 20% of israelis are arabs and 4 percent are armenian, circassian,…
they clearly don’t want arabs living there…

PS: the “racist zionist” country that allows arabs to have voting rights, become supreme court justices and be parliament members affords fags like you and more than the palestinians…

in fact your lucky if the palestinians afford you more than breathing room in a jail cell or worse…

Bill Perdue you’re so right. The real anti-semites are the zionists who don’t want anyone but Jews living in Israel. Zionism = racism.

Thats a lie.

From the Jewish Forward

Because they are so vulnerable to blackmail, it is assumed by the families and neighbors of gay Palestinian men — sometimes correctly — that they have been blackmailed into becoming informers, either for Israeli intelligence or for opposition Palestinian factions. So when they meet a violent end, the motivation of the killers is not entirely clear.

From Kathleen Peratis, a trustee of Human Rights Watch.

When gay Palestinian men run for their lives into Israel, they do not seek — and they cannot get — “asylum,” which is a special status under international law available to those who can establish a “well founded fear of persecution” in the country of their nationality or “place of habitual residence.” Israel has never granted asylum to Palestinians, gay or not

The United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees in Jerusalem advises any Palestinian seeking asylum in Israel that he or she is ineligible to apply.”

The zionist colonial administration in occupied Palestine periodically engages in ethnic cleansing on a large scale.

However the deaths from zionist ethnic cleansing are nothing compared to the deaths the zionists cause day in and day out by their apartheid policies and denial of food, healthcare and shelter to Palestinians. It’s an example of slow, relentless, remorseless ethnic cleansing by starvation. It’s exactly the same tactic the Nazis used on ghettos and Russian and Polish citizens until they began the mass murders.

The approach of GLBT communities to the fight of the Palestinians should be full support. And a warning to the zionists – when push comes to shove the only thing the US and the English are interested in is oil. They are there for the oil and have no other loyalties. We should explain to the zionist colonists that their days as a power in the region are numbered. They can make their peace with a democratic, secular and hopefully socialist Palestine or await their fate.

The zionists only permit about a third of the food and other supplies need to sustain Palestinians in Gaza.

It is simply unbelievable and totally unacceptable that any gay person would speak in favor of Hamas against Israel.

In Tel Aviv today, out gay Arabs live their lives freely and openly.

In Gaza, there’s no such thing as “out,” because “out” there equates to “honor killed.” There’s no chance of that changing any time soon, either, because as per the religious laws enforced in Gaza, it is illegal for a Muslim to convert to another religion or to renounce religion.

Hamas has the announced intention of establishing an Islamic republic in the territory now Israel. A consequence of Jewish Israelis “getting the hell out of” what Helen Thomas calls “Palestine,” then would be that the out gay Arabs in Israel would suddenly find themselves subject to “honor killing.”

Get a grip!

Palestine for the Palestinians

Helen Thomas is a hero for telling the truth. And so is Desmond Tutu, who says: “People are scared in this country (the US), to say wrong is wrong because the Jewish lobby is powerful – very powerful. Well, so what?

Helen Thomas has 200,000 very relieved Jewish accomplices in her ‘hate crime.’

Christians only support Israel so they can kick the Jews out of America, and when they get their gay hate on they claim they’re not so bad because they’re not the ones with bombs strapped to their chests, like the Muslims are. I say a plague on BOTH their houses.

It’s time for the Israelis to go nuclear on the Nazislamic dictatorships and on the Vatican, whose predecessors helped Hitler with the Holocaust, and which is now run by an unrepentant ex-Nazi who calls himself pope while his cardinals rape little boys and blame us gays for it. And that breeder Obama better not stand in their way.

Nuke all anti-gay dictatorships. Nuke “Palestine”, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Yemen, the UAE, and every last one of those racist, anti-semitic, homophobic misogynistic hell holes. Then we’ll have world peace.

Pro-Palestinian=Pro-Nazi

Gay + Pro-Palestinian=Modern-day Ernst Rohm

Actually notice how the arabs rejected the 1948 partition of Israel and Palestine and did so several more times…..in the form of declaring WAR

oh yes how dare Jews want to live in a state where they aren’t a minority there have just been so many of those states in history…

I know dead jews r no biggie, right?

Engage in the behavior?

As an arab she should shut the fuck up

since arabs dispossessed more jews than israel dispossessed palestinians….

second: if there is really a genocide of palestinians going on: why is it that in 1948 there were about a million and now close to 5 million?

yeah clearly israel is systematically wiping them out….

do you know why the IDF does things like bulldoze the homes of families of suicide bombers?

so that they know that ISRAELI life is precious and that there will be a price to pay for their so called “freedom fighting”

The zionist colonists are temporary interlopers there, propped up artificially by the US. The situation will only be solved by a unitary, secular, socialist Palestinian state. The colonialists can adjust like the European colonialists did in South Africa or await their fate, which if they fight to the bitter end will probably closely resemble the fate of French colonists in Algeria and the Americans in Vietnam.

Palestinians will take their country back. The longer zionists keep up their murder rampage the harsher the settlement will be.
Many zionist colonists may not want to leave. They may want to adapt. That’d both be easier and lead to a more vibrant society. What they cannot do is impose their rogue killer regime on the Palestinians indefinitely.

Unfortunately, what it will take to end the conflict won’t be available for some time if ever: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eun7SmpNr1I (OK – couldn’t resist – 1950s special effects are so cheesy that they look funny today).

And I can read a map. Israel is such a tiny place. Is there a reason all the oil rich neighbors with much more land mass can’t take in their Arab brethren? As distasteful as it is to give up ones’ homeland, this quarrel has been brewing for 62 years with no end in sight. There HAS to be another solution. And I didn’t the PLO organization under Arafat reject solution after solution? He as much as anyone kept the camps open.

Your arguments over gay marriage is completely irrelevant to the debate. You are essentially arguing that a rain storm in Mexico solves a drought issue in the mid West of the United states. it doesn’t work that way. The fact that South Africa was nice to whites, doesn’t justify apartheid against blacks. Likewise, the fact that Israel has, in your mind, a better policy on gay marriage, doesn’t justify what else Israel maybe doing. That’s just a sleight of hand magic trick.

And, as for Helen, I already rebutted your statement through looking at the true complexity of the issue- that Israel, is not really trying to protect Jews from European oppression (which is the genesis of the claimed offense) any more since many Jewish immigrants are choosing the country that was the cause of the Holocaust over Israel. In other words, the debate is rigged to tug at the heart strings as you formulate it, but it does not represent political reality for Jewish people today. it certainly doesn’t justify the behavior of the Israeli government toward the Palestinians. Indeed, it certainly doesn’t explain why the same Israeli government would be trying to block Jewish people from moving to Germany over Israel. The later point demonstrates how much of sham this entire fake discussion is by you and other Israeli supporters. Can you explain why Israeli would be trying to block Germany from allowing Jewish immigrants into Germany? I know you can’t, but I thought I’d give you a chance to provide some kind of reasoning that does not amount to trying to keep up a public image of Israel as the only choice for Jewish people.

___________________________-

Sorry Rashid, but all you’re taking about is timing. At what point, if you think that Isreal should get out, does it become ok to live on land that used to belong to somebody else? Jordon controled the west bank before Isreal, Egypt controlled Gaza. The U.S. is on land once controlled by Native Americans. If you think Isreal should leave then why would you not think the US should give it’s land back and we should all pick a country and go back? At what point does it become ok in your mind. Or is it only not ok because it’s Isreal?

Sorry, but we’re talking about one area, where it’s legal to be gay, where gay marriges performed in other countries are accepted and gays can adopt, and another area where being gay is illegal, where violence against women and honor killings are accepted and gays are arrested and tortoured. I’ll feel sympathy for Palestine when I can walk down the street holding a man’s hand and not get thrown in jail and tortoured or where a woman can decide to marry somebody her family doesn’t approve of and not get killed by them with the govt.’s tacit approval.

Back to the topic at hand, If Helen Thomas really believes what she said, then she needs to find a local Native American tribal govt. in her state and sign over her house to them.

The irony is that what she was saying while offensive to the American media landscape is not something that’s all that controversial in Europe, and, indeed, seems to reflect a trend that Israel is trying to block- that Israel is not the only place Jewish people can feel safe anymore. That they don’t need to be pushing out Palestenians who are out numbering the Jewish people moving in because of birth rate diferentials. They also responding apparently with more stridden doctrinal religion (theocracy) as supported- wait for it… by American evangelicals who believe that the Jewish people will be on their side and Muslim on the side of the anti Christ when the second coming of Christ happens (I wish I were making this shit up).

I compare what Israel is doing there to what Glenn Beck suggested with the changing demographics of America when he said whites should have more babies. All of this “outrage” is covering up some really ugly shit that has nothing to do with Judiasm (since many are moving places that they now feel are more safe) or terrorism (which is a problem that needs to be addressed rather than used for political exploitation by the far right of Israel).

It’s because when 75% of the British Mandate of Palestine became Jordan, and 25% Israel, Jordan expelled all the Jews (and confiscated their property and life savings and never gave them back). Israel by contrast welcomed the Arabs in its territory to participate fully in the democracy; there are Arab members of the Knesset.

In Israel today, out gay Arabs live unbothered.

How are gays faring in Jordan?

In 2008, Saad Manasir, Governor of Amman, pledged to continue with the crackdown until, “we eradicate any trace of male homosexuals in the society.” Vigilante honor killings are relatively common. Several articles of the penal code provide lesser penalities for a man killing his wife or kin than for engaging in “illicit” sexual relations. No civil rights legislation exists to protect people from discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity. There are no known government-recognized LGBT community or human rights organizations, and no Jordanian political parties have expressed any support for LGBT legislation.

And Jordan is considered “liberal and modern” compared to Hamas in Gaza and the Palestinian government of the West Bank (where there’s no such thing as “out,” because “out” means “honor killed.”

Just so we’re clear on what Helen Thomas would have happen to gay Arabs who today in Israel live out and proud and are not jailed or killed for it.

I’m not going to debate the political views of the founders of the Zionist movement. I don’t doubt that some, many, or whatever vague term one might choose, supported some sort of oppressive regime. We’re talking about the late 1800′s here; the idea of national self-determination hadn’t yet been put forward. More to the point, though, do you see the Palestinians, had they won in ’48, treating the Jewish minority any better than the Palestinians are treated now? Yes, the Jews were more recent immigrants, but they were there just as legally and had just the same rights to citizenship. It would have been nice if the Jews and Palestinians had chosen a Lebanon-style power-sharing agreement, but they didn’t. Both sides resented the other and wanted complete political power to themselves. Both opted to settle the matter militarily, the die was cast, and the Jews won.

And yes, the local Arab population did have problems accommodating the new Jewish immigrants, and I fully agree with their reasons and it had nothing to do with anti-Semitism. Many in the early Zionist movement made it quite clear that their intentions was to form a state in the British Mandate of Palestine with either a Jewish majority (which would be only possible by the forced expulsion of the indigenous population) [they picked this one] or to set up an apartheid state where the minority systematically oppresses the majority (what happens in the occupied territories) [this is what they are doing now]. It is understandable why there may have been a little Arab resentment.

That suggests that if they weren’t “in effect the same people,” the brutality would be somewhat more acceptable.

I don’t buy that.