Alas, it looks like California will strip away the rights of gay men and women, and amend the state constitution to ban gay marriage. The latest poll results, with all but 5 percent of precincts reporting, show Proposition 8 passing by a margin of some 400,000 votes. Click below for a county-by-county view.
More results from the LA Times here.
CHURCHILL-Y
http://vote.sos.ca.gov/Returns/props/map190000000008.html
The CHANGE we needed!!!!
OBAMA’08
Evah21
I don’t live in California…but I’m just depressed about this ruling. I just hope people contest it in the federal Supreme Court…anything. I just don’t understand how people can think it’s okay to say, “you’re not good enough to have the same things we do.” I’m disappointed in California..
braeden
two steps forward. one step back. fuck…
Johnny Underscore
Boo. This wasn’t a mandate from the people of California, though. It was a last, dying twitch from what is now the corpse of fear. Hope won last night and hope will lead California into a future without discrimination. It may take longer than we wanted but wheels are in motion.
chadnnocal
On a related note, that C*nt Sally Kern was re-elected. http://ttowntommy.typepad.com/t_town_tommy/2008/11/sally-kern-wins-re-election-to-oklahoma-house.html
I guess hate is alive and breathing in the US
Trelindtr
what’s next? I thought this was a slam dunk (ignore the sports metaphor)
All that money. Damn.
Eric
California fell victim to outside funding and influence from hateful religious groups. This does nothing but prove this is still a culture war, and we still have to fight.
fredo777
I was just watching Ellen.
You can really tell how sad she is. This is fucked up.
fredo777
But, I will ask one thing.
Isn’t it kind of encouraging that we were at least able to get that many people to vote against the ban?
It’ll likely end with around 4.8 million voters having said that they wouldn’t take away those marriage rights. That is definite progress made.
CHURCHILL-Y
“Hope won last night and hope will lead California into a future without discrimination.”
YES IT DID. HOPE! Woo-Hoo!!!!!!!!
OBAMA’08
Jen
Prop 2 passed in Florida as well, I’m a straight woman, but this still makes me mad as hell.
CHURCHILL-Y
AND OBAMA WON FLORIDA ALSO! Woo-Hoo!!!!!!!
The HOPE and the CHANGE just keeps on pouring.
fredo777
Prop 8 would have likely passed whether McCain or Obama won, asshat.
Bonnie
I am a white mother of 2, My daughter is 37 and gay, my son is 32 and african american. I’m so happy to see Barack Obama win but am so disapointed to see prop 8 win. one step forward for my son one step backward for my daughter. When are people going to learn what real equality is. It means EVERYONE has EQUAL RIGHTS. DUH!
ML
Social change never happens quickly. It’s discouraging but not the end… the fight will go on and minds will change.
As a Michigan resident who went through this 4 years ago, I know exactly how gay Californians are feeling this morning. But at least there is hope… more than we had 4 years ago. The margin of victory was small indicating that the tide is turning. And, most importantly, an Obama victory ensures the Supreme Court won’t be stocked with more conservatives in the next 4 years.
John
This sucks! I live in a county that apparently voted yes, but I did my part and others did too. It makes me feel a little better that it was close though.
Sam
There is something to note though. 52% of California voters voted for this ban. Back in 2000, 61% voted for the ban. Even though we may have lost, this is still encouraging to know that more people are coming on to our side. We will win this thing sooner or later.
jtmoroney
Thank you johnny underscore. your comment made me feel better.
Sam
sorry, I should clarify. We will win this culture war sooner or later but the signs are slowing coming to the gay side.
Stenar
Someone in San Francisco area, please go burn down the Mormon temple in Oakland. Thanks.
Rock
If someone sees a Mormon today, kick them in the balls.
HARD!
MichaelK
I’m sad as fuck over this. I keep hoping there’s a legal loophole somewhere that will negate this. Previously, the judicial system has ignored past propositions in Mass that they didn’t like (like a previous income tax reduction: http://www.spectator.org/archives/2008/08/12/taxachusetts-rip), though that was a just a law and this is a constitutional amendment. But maybe we can hold out hope. I know my fingers are crossed.
St. Francis Of-a-sissy
Stenar, I’m afraid the thing is made entirely of stone. Wouldn’t burn very well.
Now, I’m curious (he says with an evil grin): what would happen if SF Mayor Gavin Newsom said, “Screw you, we’re gonna keep issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples.” What would the State of CA do? Remeber, Ahhhnold was on our side in this. If Newsom did this, it would force the issue into court real quick. And the faster it goes into court, the faster it’ll make its way to the US Supreme Court.
CHURCHILL-Y
“California’s Prop 8, which overturns a state Supreme Court ruling allowing gay marriage, appears to have passed. In one of the most disturbing statistics I’ve ever heard, 95% of African-Americans in California voted for Barack Obama but 69% of them also voted to deny equal rights to gay and lesbian couples. Are memories so short? Only last year we celebrated the 40th anniversary of the Supreme Court ruling that overturned state bans on interracial marriage, a tremendous moment for equality and civil rights.”
Good question Mr Brayton, but it’s too late, the handwriting was on the wall and most non-color GLBT chose to look the other way. Black support as opposed to their opposition to our basic American rights(which by the way the enjoy and achieved with the help of some Gay old geezers)would’ve made the difference.
http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2008/11/random_thoughts_the_morning_af.php
*Correction for MR Brayton it was 70% of african Americans(so far).
THE CHANGE WE NEEDED ’08
ML
St Francis: Prematuturely forcing this into the US Supreme Court could be very harmful — It needs to be the right case at the right time. In the meantime the fight needs to continue at the state level.
St. Francis Of-a-sissy
ML, you’re probably right. That was the in-your-face, confrontational, we’re-here-we’re-queer St. Francis who made that last post.
Headjelqer
This is a travesty, to have any theological view written into a constitution is a step back wards for the entire nation. In my opinion this goes against everything this country is supposed to stand for, it makes my heart sink, I feel ashamed. This proposition passing is a victoy for the conservative religious crazys, so what is next abortion? Then what religious persicution? California is one of our most liberal states if this could happen their what is to be for the rest of our nation. I am so pissed, we all must do our part to preserve our freedom.
Chris
Religion is such a dangerous thing. It turns people into non-thinking sheep.
AJC
Most Americans seem to have voted for Mr. Obama because they saw him as the lesser of two evils. But he is just another politician: he is no more intrinsically inclusive in his politics than any of his Democrat predecessors.
Liberals lose elections for exactly the same reason conservatives lose elections: they lie. Except that in the case of liberals (who always claim the moral high ground), they ought to know better, but then act as if they don’t. If you can afford to throw queers under the bus, you don’t deserve to have their uncritical or unconditional support, because you lack any real credibility in your calls for inclusion. It’s phony liberalism (i.e., populist liberalism) that guarantees its inevitable failure, time and time again, at the polls. Hubris breeds nemesis.
As one of my friends likes to put it, “Scratch a liberal and you’ll find a conservative.” So true.
If Republicans in the States want to once more achieve power and acquire credibility, they ought to take a page from the Conservatives in Canada: re-invent themselves as fiscally prudent *and* socially tolerant. This means they will have to purge their party of the far-right evangelicals (like “Bible Spice”) who appear to control it at the moment. They need to be far less ideological and much more amenable to change: they need to present themselves as both socially progressive *and* economically responsible. A renewed Republican party will attract disaffected Democrats along with fiscal conservatives, and will offer a real alternative to the Democrats.
ML
Headjelqer: Many similar constitutional amendments have already been passed across much of the nation. Where was your outrage in 2004?
The NO on 8 campaign had more money and higher visibility than all of the campaigns that came before it and it still passed. Yes, it’s infuriating, but this is what happens when the majority gets to decide the rights of a minority. Same sex marriage is a major social change that will take time and, as with most civil rights battles, will ultimately be decided by the US Supreme Court. This is a temporary setback.
Kdogg
I would like to welcome California to the United States, once a land of opportunity and freedom, now a land where people vote on who you can marry. I can’t wait until 2012, I’m waiting for the proposal that tells gays they have to eat chicken every 3rd thursday of the month.
One big day showing how far our country has come against racism, one big day to show how we’ve just moved from discriminating against one group to doing it to another.
Florida, California, Arkansas, Arizona, Florida all voted in new restrictions and bans against GLBT. That’s 5 out of 5 proposals that passed…
Sadly Obama is our only hope… and who knows the HRC is doing
The Good Doctor
I almost punched a hole through the voting machine while clicking no, but apparently everyone else in my county did the same while voting yes. I’ve been ashamed, before, of living in Orange County. Its money-buffered, gas-guzzling, hyper-white, uber-Cultlike religious nature leaves something to be desired. But I’ve never been more ashamed now.
To the 48%, here’s to you. To everyone else, rot in hell.
Dave
I’m so glad that my faith in this country was partaially restored. 5 out of 5 wow! And if it were put to a vote in CT homosexual marriage would go down in flames (no pun intended – o.k. maybe a little). Reading these posts before mine just makes me giddy with joy. Yay!
Bob
Dave, I certainly hope you die soon, bigot.
CHURCHILL-Y
“Sadly Obama is our only hope… and who knows the HRC is doing” – No. 31 · Kdogg
“I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. I am not in favor of gay marriage.” -OBAMA
“As a Christian — he is a member of the United Church of Christ — Mr. Obama believes that marriage is a sacred union, a blessing from God, and one that is intended for a man and a woman exclusively, according to these supporters and Obama campaign advisers.” -OBAMA
“he does not support it and is not inclined to fight for it, his advisers say.” -OBAMA
http://www.queerty.com/obama-prop-8-unnecessary-but-doesnt-believe-in-gay-marriage-20081103/
HOPE ’08 * HOPE ’08 * HOPE ’08 * HOPE ’08
YES WE CAN!
OBAMA’08
crazylove
Sam is right. The reality is that if you are going to play by the conservative rule which says we must put our rights to a popular vote, then it’s going to take longer than if we argue that this should be decided by the courts. In terms of social history to go from nil 2 decades ago, to 61 of only 8 years ago to 52 percent now is impressive. Especially, considering the demographic spread amongst younger voters. It seems it’s not if, but when.
Carl
“If someone sees a Mormon today, kick them in the balls… HARD!”
Or anal sex works just as well. If they want to take my rights, they can have them… right up the butt!
crazylove
Incidentally, for those of you not versed in legal issues, the reason why I said the courts is because one of the lasting damaging results of rightwing rule of the country for the last 30 years is the so-called war on ‘activist judges.” This war has resulted in Americans believing that the traditional role of the courts are not in fact the role of the courts, and that we live in a strictly mob democracy in which we are governed by 50 plus one rather than by a set of constitutional principles. If we were governed by those principles, many would have understood the arguments regarding equality under the law, which is meant to protect the right of minority groups, whether racial or some new class like gay. Unfortunately it is very difficult to argue this when we live in a society that has spent the last 30 years telling people no such balancing of the rights between the majority and minority exists. That what they feel is everything because individualism is supreme rather than principles. If want to blame anything- blame the vestiges of conservatism mixed with homophobia. They are what led to Prop 8.
rich
Liberals are such hypocrites!! You constantly cry to keep the government out of your lives, but when there is an issue you don’t agree with you are the first ones to run to the government to change it (courts, legislators, etc). You can’t have it both ways. You chastise the so called right wing for trying to force their values upon you, but find it perfectly okay to force your values on others. So who are the intolerent ones? You demand acceptance of your sexual preferences, but refuse to acknowledge other people’s right to condemn the lifestyle. Yes I said PREFERENCE, because it is a choice to be GAY. There is no GAY GENE or inherent DNA trait. The majority of Liberals believe in evolution, which makes us no different than other creatures on the planet. Why is it that no other creatures on earth engage in same sex activites. It is not natural.
The entire agenda behing pushing your gay rights agenda is to legitimize your behavior. California recognizes domestic partnerships, why do you need special rights that make you a protected class.
GET REAL, and stop pushing your agenda on me.
CHURCHILL-Y
THE CHICKENS CAME HOME TO ROOST!!!!
CHURCHILL-Y
YES THEY DID!!!
CHURCHILL-Y
OBAMA’08
Sam
Ah Dave, so good to see that the bigots have comes to visit since they have nothing better to do than ruin peoples live with their made up stories about sin. You must be one of those sad people that fight against equality because you can’t get married because no woman in their right mind would marry a fatso like you and make you happy so you have this imaginary friend you have “God” or “Dog” to keep you company and brainwash you into thinking that you will ascend into a place that full of white happy clouds but don’t realize that you will become part of the earth after you have died because that is the cycle of life. Have a nice day.
fredo777
“I would vote no on the proposition.”
– Barack Obama
This fight is far from over + these numbers are encouraging. While the Prop will likely pass, former Mayor of San Fran, Willie Brown, said on CNN earlier, there are still a few million absentee + provisional ballots to be counted + it could take several more days.
With a loss this close, though, I’m optimistic that with more organization + better methods of reaching out to those whom we might have overlooked in our efforts to shore up support, we’ll succeed in the future.
As Brown said, the proponents of Prop 8 just campaigned better + they went out, quietly seeking the support of those whom we against Prop 8 might not have bothered reaching out to. Bottom-line, they were better at getting their message out to more people + we need to use our creative gay sensibilities to find ways to defeat such props in the future. And to those who want to play the blame game, pointing out one group of people, one particular politician, etc., ask yourself: “how much time, money, + effort did I dedicate to the cause of defeating this Prop?” “How many people (including those whom are different than myself) did I try to enlighten with a message of equality + acceptance?”
Next time, we can win this if next time we all put forth a better collective effort instead of waiting on someone else to fight our battles.
Sam
Oh look, there’s Rich. are you two related?
fredo777
Somebody left the gate open + all the douchebags are roaming free.
Anyway, “Rich”, being gay is not a choice. And, frankly, noone gives a shit whether you think it is or not or whether you want our gayness “forced” on you (what a load of shit, btw). As Newsom said, gay marriage is going to happen. We won over more people last time, still more this time, + we’ll win over even more next time.
Progress is being made. That is evident. So, either stand with us or get the fuck out of our way.
ChristopherM
In response to Churchlady’s 2,573 posts blaming black folks for Prop 8, it should be pointed out that:
-Black people make up only 6.2% of California’s population, so their impact was negligible.
-Prop 8 was primarily funded and promoted by the LDS Church. There are probably something like 11 black Mormons in the world.
-You know who else voted for Prop 8 by a wide margin? Old people. And they make up far more than 6.2% of the state’s population.
In closing, I would say fuck you you racist shitbag, fuck you with something hard and sandpapery. But I won’t because I have something that must hurt you far more. President Obama, Churchlady. President Obama.
Carsen T.
You know I am begging those absentee and provisional ballots can give us a different answer, because I am sick of seeing my parents celebrate this, I just want to push them off the stairs…I just may be willing to be sent back to the psych ward over that.
H B
I am truly saddened by the ignorance and bigotry expressed in this law. I am a heterosexual in a traditional marriage, why wouldn’t I want others to enjoy the same? I am stunned that so many of my neighbors could be so ignorant and intolerant.
David
Well from a legal standpoint I suppose we could just pass a law stating: “Gay marriage is between two members of the same sex.” From a technical standpoint I think there wouldn’t be any problems although we’d still have technically 2 separate institutions of matrimony – though just about everyone calls it gay marriage anyway even though technically prior to prop. 8 it was technically marriage. It’d certainly irk the far right if we got a law passed defining gay marriage.
Facts
“Black people make up only 6.2% of California’s population, so their impact was negligible.”
Actually, African Americans made up 10 per cent of those who voted yesterday. 70% of that 10% who voted no had a very real impact and weren’t at all negilible in a race this tight.
Tweety
I am starting a petition for a proposition next year to ban the mormon church from California. Who’s signing?
Doug
This is sad, sad, sad. It’s bad enough to deny a right to someone that they don’t currently have but it is positively un-American to take one away that they already have.
crazylove
Facts:
Except the exit polling is what people are relying on to claim what the black vote was on this issue. Even an increase of 10 percent only matters if the exit polls were right. They were wrong as to outcome in that it claimed this prop would fail 52 to 48/
The numbers for older voters is what really killed us in place like Los Angeles. There was also if you are looking at turnout not enough turn out amongst the base voters that No on 8 claimed it was trying to reach. Basically, those voters didn’t bother to show up. Even on your own terms, the problem wasn’t the increased black vote of 10 percent, it was looking at other parts of CA that didn’t show up as they usuall do.
The problem was as others had complained from the start- the No on 8 was outorganized and was not grassroots centric. It continues to be ironic to me that the No on 8 used Kerry’s strategy from 2004 to try to win this.
How many gay people showed up to vote?
crazylove
By the way- looking at the numbers, I am wondering if there was a gay Bradley effect amongst white voters. I ask this because if you accept the breakdown of black voters as given, then how did the exit polls get the final outcome exactly in reverse? That exit poll would have included the numbers that you use for the black vote in finding that the prop would have failed.
mds
When white people do something that blacks do not like, blacks have no problem screaming about how bigoted white people are.
But when black people do the same its like God forbid it should be pointed out. Maybe the black vote alone did not make or break us
last night but it did show us who are friends are not. You cannot have it both ways. Black people showed us that they are extremely
bigoted and are our enemy. Sorry, but lets call a spade a spade.
They don’t deserve a free pass for what they did.
rayrayj
Yes this is sad but it was not unexpected and it is only a temporary thing. More young people are personally acquainted with someone who is gay, and are therefore much more likely to favor same sex unions. Change is occurring.
The best reason for hope is Obama will probably appoint more than one Supreme Court Justice and w can all hope a couple of the Conservative Justices die peacefully in their sleep. If McCain had won he had promised to appoint Justices like Scalia. Moreover, Obama will appoint a new Attorney General who will create a new Justice Department. Change is slow, but change is coming.
In NC, we voted out Dole, we held on to the Governor’s seat, and still this morning the President’s race in NC in too close to call. Obama may not win NC but the Conservative Republicans and Conservative Democrats in NC, are being faced with the fact that change is coming. Despite Proposition 8 passing in CA, I have never felt more hopeful about America, or more proud of my country. We have chosen hope over hate. We have not arrived but at least this time we are on the right path.
PS. I am happy to see that Churchilly has chosen to embrace Obama and I echo his cheer. Obama 08!
fredo777
MDS, you ignorant ass, black + gay are not mutually exclusive. Furthermore, attitudes like yours will only distance blacks who could be persuaded to vote against such measures even moreso. If 70% of the blacks exit-polled voted for Prop 8, that also means that 30% voted against it + if you keep making this an “us vs. them” issue, even less will support equal gay rights in the future. And we will all lose. Always.
CHURCHILL-Y
Moesha777, FINALLY the HOPE and CHANGE we needed!!
Did you call cousin Shaquana in Compton to talk and to try and influence her on her vote?
How about uncle Jamal in North Inglewood?
I just know you contacted sistah Tiesha in Crenshaw!! (snaps fingers zzwoom).
CHANGE!
CHURCHILL-Y
OBAMA ’08
oldgayvermonter
Just a few questions for the community…
1) did the LDS piles of cash come from the church or from individual old white men – in which case we just have to wait for that generation to die out. If from the church, was it legal and should their tax exempt status be examined? Same question would apply to the Catholics. Perhaps any molested alter boys who haven’t sued yet should come forth and do so – hard to contribute to bigotry when you are a bancrupt entity (their moral bancrupcy is already a matter of record).
2) Are the central “yes” areas where we get our greens and stuff from? If so, perhaps a boycott is in order – buy local, grow your own, or find other creative ways to bring pain to them.
Any Cali boys care to address this, or think on it for later?
fredo777
Church, are you always going to be such a pathetic, racist waste of skin?
That’s a rhetorical question. Of course you are.
mds
No. 58 · fredo777
Calling people names I guess is just a character trait of your race and just shows that you are reacting to the shame of what your people did last night. You should be ashamed, you have nothing to be proud of as it is being revealed that there are no victims in the world. The wheels of Karma continue and nobody has been elevated above it. One group is hated, then overcomes, then becomes the hater. Its what keeps this world going round and round and why we really have not evolved as humans. You just hate the light when its on you, but you have no issue shining it on others.
fredo777
I’m not ashamed of anything, other than that I’ve shared a forum with you.
As for name-calling, spare me. That “call a spade a spade” line was telling.
And, for the record, I have everything to be proud of. In case you weren’t aware, black people are not a monolith + we do have individual thoughts, beliefs, + opinions. I, for one, am of the opinion that you are an ass + that is what I have chosen to call you. Ass.
What’s more, I don’t take responsibility for the actions or thoughts of others which are beyond my control simply because we share a skin color. Nor should I. If you expect me to, you are delusional.
michael
Freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed.
Dr. Martin Luther King
Nobody is going to just give us our rights, we must demand them. The anger and outrage of the gay community is a good sign, as it is a sign of healthy self esteem. From Elsa Parks to the passage of the civil rights amendment was what, 15 years? Stonewall to now is what? Almost 40 years? We have made very little progress doing things the way we have been doing them. We must do things differently and stop being victims.
mds
Obama “marriage is between one man and one woman”
blacks vote against gay marriage.
Monkey see, Monkey do.
Jaroslaw
What happens with the 18,000 marriages already performed in California?
frank kameny
C’mon boys, start those petition drives. In 2010 I want to see a proposition on the ballot that would repeal the amendment enacted by Prop 8. Now sprinkle some fairy dust, click your heels like Judy, and make it happen!
frank kameny
Who is Elsa Parks?
mds
Fredo777
I think its a lot easier to spend your time warring with others than to just sit down and let sink in that you are hated by 7 out of 10 of your own people.
Jaroslaw
69 – he meant ROSA Parks
Kdogg
Obama is very much in support of gays. He himself endorsed voting no on this amendment calling it “writing hate into the California constitution” His Supreme Court appointees are out only hope. I stand by this statement on #31, this is in rseponse to #35 and just a general statement.
CHURCHILL-Y
Okay Kdogg.
By the way Kdogg, I own a beautiful/hi-tech sea side house in the EVERGLADES, I’m selling it at a reasonable price and I’m sure you would fall in love with it. Let me know if you’re interested.
CHURCHILL-Y
I also have another(home) for sale in YELLOWSTONE NATIONAL PARK. Get in touch with me Kdogg!
marcus
As long as there are children going hungry, doing without love
and care, no child in the world will be completely carefree and happy.
As long as there are women who are oppressed, enduring rape and oppression by men, no woman on earth will completely know peace.
As long anyone is being denied the right to love who they will and being denied the protections others enjoy, no marriage or relationship will ever know the complete joy that love can bring
We are all interconnected and are one. What we do to another we do to ourselves. The votes last night will bring nothing but misery upon those that chose to hate instead of love. Last night the losses gay people saw are losses for all of humankind. Further separation was created and from that will come its consequences. So we gay people were not the only ones to lose,
they just don’t know it yet.
tpagy
As a Gay Man from Tampa,Florida I’ve had to realize today By Helping Elect Barack Obama Has made me a Second class Citizen. So I just want to thank All those african americans christians who voted to make this happen because you are the Ones who did this. And I’ll never sit in the Back of the Bus because of your Blind Bigotry and Hate!
Mike
My guy and I were married on July 3rd. The impact on our union of this discriminatory amendment, that actually takes away civil rights that had already been granted to a suspect class of people, is unclear and history making. There is no precedent to rely upon. Those who wished to take away the right of marriage will now mount a legal case to nullify the 18,000+ same gender marriages that have taken place in the State of California since the evening of June 16, and our own marriage is among those that hang in the balance.
Nevertheless, we awoke this morning with our promise to one another still firmly planted on our lips. We are terribly proud of our relationship and the work we have put into it so that the path we take together guarantees a smooth, safe and secure passage through life. We will continue our journey together, and we will do so humbly and gratefully as we travel with each of you.
Just as Steve and I are committed to one another, we are committed to continuing our struggle towards our civil rights. While the civil rights struggles that have come before us–the struggle of people of color and women–were made unique by the very fact that those minorities walked out their front doors with their differences obvious to all; the struggle for gay Americans is the converse. Indeed, what makes our battle so very difficult is that we are largely invisible to the world outside, and all that society has to hang on to are the images they gleam from a depiction of what a gay person is on television, in a movie, or in a gay pride parade. Invisibility is our foe, and what can be deduced from the campaign against us, invisibility is exactly what the proponents of measures such as proposition 8 want from us. If we remain invisible to all, the lies against us can be ever more easily perpetuated.
I invite you all to live a more authentic and honest life, as who you are, in our effort to be seen for, not whom we are portrayed to be, but for whom we really are.
michael
May partner and I went to San Fran. in August to get married. It was such a joy to finally seal our relationship with this wonderful commitment. We live in Canada but because we are American we wanted to be joined together in the nation of our birth. It was absolutely wonderful and an experience no bigot on earth can rob from us.
Last night we joined a group of expatriates to watch the election returns. While we were glad that Obama won, we were of course brokenhearted about how the propositions in the U.S. that directly affect gay people were going. By the time we got home and though it was not final we had accepted the fact that the country of our origin had not grown but actually digressed.
My spouse comes from a family that actually hates him. His brothers never miss a chance to belittle him and his mother has constantly told him how evil he is. He has worked hard to break ties with them and has done so with a heavy heart. Last night I watched him cry like a baby. His grief so overwhelmed me. All I wanted to do was to take away his pain. But I could not. Once again he saw affirmation that hate won and he was heartbroken. We both always said that if we ever returned to the U.S. we would live in California. But last night that hope was dashed.
I believe that Obama is a good man. His inclusion of Gays and Lesbians in his speech speaks volumes about his character. But I think many are deluding themselves in believing that America has so progressed as they would vote for a black man. Obama won because the American people are desperate and the only thing truly important to them is their pocket books. America’s stance on social issues was shown last night. The U.S. is nothing but a drunk who has emptied its bottle and now ripping apart the medicine cabinet looking for anything that might contain alcohol. Obama is the spouse that is trying to keep the booze hidden and run interference to avoid its consequences. Obama will do nothing but help slow down what needs to happen to the U.S. it needs to completely bottom out. Just as Germany did not
change until it was brought to its knees the same holds true about the states.
I have a very good friend whose mother is an Auschwitz survivor. She told me that as a young girl that she watched as her families farm was taken away. They were not allowed to go to school. They were not allowed to speak to non jews. But as their rights were being taken away they never dreamed what the end result would be. They held onto hope the entire time. Eventually she and her family were shipped to the death camps. Her parents were immediately gassed and because she and her siblings were young they were put to work helping to build a run way. She and 1 sister survived but the rest of her family perished. Last night a group of people had rights stripped away,
Some lost the hope of building a family. Some lost the hope of knowing the protections marriage involves. But America moved another step closer to destroying a group of people it holds undesirable.
While I admire those who are doing all they can to remain positive please don’t confuse being positive with denial. Last night history was made in that the rights afforded gay people to marry were stripped away. We can blame it on Mormons, on blacks, on people pink, white and green, but whoever these people might be they make up the majority of Americans. While it won’t be pleasant to watch I see America as a country fighting
to stay above water. But it needs to drown. Only then might it learn, as Germany did, and become something worthwhile. But do not wait, thinking that people are going to magically change.
Even the young that seem to support us harden with age. Lest we forget the peace loving hippies of the 60’s? Where are they now? They just returned to what they were brought up to be. So as California goes, so does the rest of the nation. What won last night was hatred and desperation and the clinging to greed. Don’t delude yourself into thinking it was anything else.
fredo777
Gee, Michael, thanks for such a positive, inspiring, + uplifting take on this historic moment……
fredo777
Btw, TPAGY, those “African American christians” didn’t make this happen.
If anything, blame the millions upon millions of dollars donated to Yes on 8 by the Mormons. If not for all of that money, they’d have had a much harder time of promoting this cause. How many black Mormons do you know?
mds
fredo777,
You are now the oppressor, not the oppressed. Feeling pretty powerful are we? And you have no issue blaming Mormons but
cannot stand it when blacks are asked to take responsibility for there part in this. This was a collective act of discrimination and
you are an arrogant piece of garbage who is dishonest and lacks humility. You ought to be chastising your own kind but no, instead your chastising the victim. fuck you and the crack whores ass you slid out of.
mds
Its funny, I have yet to come across one news article about the proposition 8 that does not mentioned the way blacks voted on it.
fredo777
They all zeroed in on the minority voters??? What a shock.
That’s because those writing the articles are hellbent on focusing on the 700,000 or so blacks who voted for Prop 8 + ignoring the 306,000 or so who voted against it, while ignoring the 3.1 million whites who voted for Prop 8.
As for that crack whore line, go fuck yourself with a broken beer bottle, you stupid asshole.
mds
I am not letting anyone off the hook on this one. We now know who is against us for sure. I am sorry Fredo777, but 7 our of 10 black voters in California chose to discriminate, You can spin that any way you want, you can cry victim all day long, but it does not change what is. That means when one encounters a black person, the majority of the time you can safely say they are bigots. And coming from an oppressed group is just dumbfounding to people. Mormons, well we can be about 99% certain. Catholics? A little less than Mormons but they are not our friend. A Southern Californian is no better than a redneck from Tennessee. This is not about focusing on any one group but its about focusing on all of them. Because for some of us it can help us make choices when it comes to where to live and with whom to trust and associate. Its looking like New England might be the best area for gay people.
fredo777
Yeah, whatever.
You most certainly did single out blacks in your prior posts + I called you on it. Black + gay are not mutually exclusive, as I know first-hand. And over 300,000 blacks did vote against the prop, which means that the entire race (including gay blacks) shouldn’t be blamed for what those more religiously fanatic black voters decided.
I’m done arguing this with you, though. Fuck off.
Henry
I’m really disappointed at the results, but I’m not very surprised, looking at the map. CA is a lot more conservative than most people think; the “liberal” attitudes associated with the state is really heavily concentrated in certain parts, parts like the Bay Area and L.A that many associate with us. Everywhere else….is more or less like “Middle America”.
paul
We get our first African American president and then millions of us
either had rights stripped away or made sure they never would be.
Somehow I feel like I picked up a really hot guy, had the best sex of my life, only to wake up with my wallet missing. So this is what a “historic moment” feels like. Golly Gee!
Disgusted American
Before she died, Corretta Scott King stated her opposition to any constitutional amendments regarding gay marriage.
Martin Luther King’s trusted adviser, Bayard Rustin, was openly gay and worked hard for the civil rights of all Americans. He was tapped to organize the Montgomery Bus Boycott and the 1963 March on Washington.
Gays worked hard for African Americans to have civil rights. It’s time for a little gratitude.
CHURCHILL-Y
Enjoy y’all:
http://www.cbs2.com/video/[email protected]
CHURCHILL-Y
@ No. 90 · Disgusted American,
True, yet her children especially her daughter are one of the most vociferous anti-Gay bigots in the USA. Putting Mrs Coretta aside, theirs had to be as with all others from that community a very nurturing environment for those sentiments to flourish considering what their parents went through you’d think they would end up resembling Mrs Coretta a little more…but no, Mrs Coretta was special in that regard she was a true friend of ours and that made her a minority in her own community.
fredo777
As I said before + will say again, it’s not a racial thing; it’s a religious one. More CA blacks were in favor of this prop than against it because more of them are strongly religious than not.
The same with Mormons, Catholics, + so on. Those who attend church more often undeniably vote against gay marriage. Sad, but true.
The only way to bring about the kind of change in attitudes (of those black + not) that we want is to get them to look at gay relationships differently. Frame our argument differently + maybe more people will stop opposing us based on their strongly held religious beliefs.
For starters, not just calling them “bigots” because they oppose same-sex marriage based on what (they think) the Bible instructs them to do.
Austin Sweeney
“[Slavery] was established by decree of Almighty God…it is sanctioned in the Bible, in both Testaments, from Genesis to Revelation…it has existed in all ages, has been found among the people of the highest civilization, and in nations of the highest proficiency in the arts.” Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederate States of America.
Take a look at this arguement in it’s attempt to keep a people inslaved.
Have our African American brothers and sisters who are thumping the Bible in their justification for Voting Yes on Prop. 8 forgotten that it’s that same bible that said and still says it was okay for them to be held in slavry.
People need to use the freedom of mind instead of being lead like lambs by a bigoted preacher on the pulpit who is crossing the lines of religion and politics.
Oh how’d they yell discrimination if their church’s tax emempt status was pulled because of the politics coming off the pulpit.
Rev larry
@Evah21: IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HAVING THE SAME THINGS AS SOMEONE ELSE THIS COUNTRY WAS started on the premis of Christianity every building and every president ,every signer of the declaration of independence was a believer at least by the time they died ,since Marriage is something recognised by almost every religion as a pact between a man and a woman for the explecit reason to have a family of little ones that we call children and can only take place by the two DIFFERENT SEXES even in a petri dish there has to be male and female ,so grow a little and use the brain that GOD GAVE YOU and think, any right thinking person knows that biologicaly there are only two, at least in human’s , sexes! WHY DONT YOU TRY DOING IT GODS WAY? gOD SAID “THE FOOL HAS SAID IN HIS HEART THERE IS NO GOD” SO WHERE ARE YOU NOW SMARTER? OR THE FOOL.
Rev larry
@Evah21:why not try obeyingthe law it has nothing to do with rights it has to do with morallity and imorality or to put it another way good and evil! but that really does not matter you wanto see evil in action watch this new govt,most likely get in bed with shariah law and then you ,dear one will pay 20% of your earnings to support terrorists whom we are fighting and if this legislation isn’t stopped no one whether Gay or hetero sexual will have any rights and your freedom to be gay will come to an end with shariah law if yo dont think so then look up what is happening in London England,the people of this nation have to start pulling together becasue the politicians have a different agendawe want our freedom ,they want you as slaves or dead that is Islam Get the new Quran just written 07-08 !