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Calling Out…

From Andrew Sullivan: “Black Californians back the anti-gay measure by a margin of 20 points, 58 – 38, in the SUSA poll. No other ethnic group comes close to the level of opposition and black turnout is likely to be very high next month. All this makes it vital, in my opinion, that Barack Obama strongly and unequivocally oppose Proposition 8 in California, rather than keeping mainly quiet as he has done so far. We need him to make an ad opposing it.” [The Daily Dish]

By:           Andrew Belonksy
On:           Oct 20, 2008
Tagged: , , , , , ,
  • 62 Comments
    • CHURCHILL-Y
      CHURCHILL-Y

      Say bye bye to same sex marriage in California!

      Courtesy of your Messiah and his followers.

      Oct 20, 2008 at 11:14 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • John (yet another John)
      John (yet another John)

      Andrew Sullivan is a douche! However, we will have our dear Democratic leaders to thank for the passage of Prop 8. Don’t hold your breath for Obama to come out against it.

      Oct 20, 2008 at 11:34 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      If Palin has her way, say goodbye to same sex marriage everywhere.

      Also, Johnny Mac spoke out in support of Prop 8.

      McCain: “As I did in my home state of Arizona, I support the effort in California to define marriage as the union of a man and a woman…”

      Oct 20, 2008 at 11:38 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Chuck
      Chuck

      Of course he won’t, he’s in it for himself, not us, that’s why the sit-out may not be such a bad idea.

      Oct 20, 2008 at 11:39 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The Real John
      The Real John

      Blacks only make up about 5% of California voters…their slight bias in the SurveyUSA poll may not even be statistically significant.

      This is non-news and Sullivan’s suggestion is nonsense.

      What Sullivan can figure out, if he has so much time on his hands, is how to neutralize the Mormons who have their followers religiously displaying “Yes on 8″ lawn signs and bumper stickers all over the place. He might also think about his own “Catholicism” in the context of the Knights of Columbus being the biggest contributor to “Yes on 8″.

      We need more contributions to “No on 8″. Now that Ellen is in, how about all you rich east coast gays?

      I really don’t like having Sullivan’s blog rehashed on Queerty. Queerty himself refers to him as a blowhard in an ealier blog entry.

      Oct 20, 2008 at 11:41 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CitizenGeek
      CitizenGeek

      I hope we can just accept that homophobia is a much bigger problem among African-Americans than among any other ethnic minority or the white majority. Most black people are homophobic – deal with it; work on trying to eliminate this homophobia rather than trying to disprove what the polls consistently show.

      As for Obama – I don’t doubt for a second that he support marriage equality in California. I would like to see an ad from him urging a no vote on prop 8 but I doubt it; he’s kind of busy running for president, in case you didn’t notice. Also, it’s not going to Democrats that we’ll be blaming for reversing gay marriage; most Dems are in favour of it, actually! It’ll be Republicans and other conservatives that will be to blame.

      Oct 20, 2008 at 11:44 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Chris
      Chris

      Sooooo…maybe we should declare all of those “slave marriages” between black folks back in the pre-Civil War era invalid because they weren’t full citizens? Just sayin’…

      Oct 20, 2008 at 11:45 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      Though lukewarm, Obama did congratulate Cali. for the original supreme court decision + later expressed his disapproval of Prop 8. Also, Biden has recently spoken out against it on Ellen, which you likely already knew.

      Instead of waiting for Obama to create an ad that controversial at this stage, I think it’s more feasible for us to do something of a “Great Schlep” (as in, reaching family + friends in Cali. + touching them with a more personal story, reminding them how important it is not to remove the rights of others).

      The Great Gay Schlep ’08.

      Oct 20, 2008 at 11:52 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CHURCHILL-Y
      CHURCHILL-Y

      CitizenGeek is a clear example of cognitive dissonance if there ever was one. On one hands he/she admits to what studies and polls have repeatedly shown and on the other hand she/he thinks that Obama will come out in support of marriage equality when he has repeatedly said that he believes that marriage should only be between people of the opposite sex.

      Go figure!

      Oct 20, 2008 at 11:56 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CHURCHILL-Y
      CHURCHILL-Y

      And again thanks to Queerty for giving this piece of news the diminutive prominence it deserves!

      Clearly you have the GLBT community priorities at hand.

      Oct 20, 2008 at 12:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      All things considered, Obama/Biden would still be a far better admin. for LGBT citizens, specifically.

      And as a gay black person, I’m tired of the focus on gays vs. blacks, as though the two are mutually exclusive. Furthermore, what are you (personally) doing to reach out to + change the minds/hearts of those whom hold onto certain prejudices? It’s not exactly serving any of us LGBT folks well to make this a divisive issue, singling out one “minority” or another as more bigoted instead of trying to educate + enlighten all.

      We want inclusive rights + yet we spend so much time being divisive. It’s sad, really.

      Oct 20, 2008 at 12:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JJ
      JJ

      I also think Sullivan’s suggestions are tinged with racism.

      Are all black people voting for Obama?

      Would all black people do what Obama says?

      Sullivan has time to study the breakouts by demographics of a survey that says itself it is suspect statistically. Then he makes this leap from the black demographic to Obama — cuz he’s black remember — and what Obama should do because since he’s black all the blacks will follow him. Or how Obama should try to convince 5% of 5% or 1/4 of 1% of the voting population of California to change their votes in support of gay people— who reads this guy’s blog?

      I think it may be the kind of innocent racism Europeans who didn’t grow up around different people sometimes display, but its still racism.

      If Andrew Sullivan really cared about defeating proposition 8 he would go to this website:

      https://secure.ga4.org/01/equalityforall?source=towle

      and donate!

      Oct 20, 2008 at 12:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CHURCHILL-Y
      CHURCHILL-Y

      As a Gay person, I’m tired of blacks thinking that I don’t have the same desire that they have of being treated equally under the law. Siding in their fight for equality here in the U.S. has clearly not served any of us GLBT folks well since they obviously oppose us every time we try to advance our rights. What saddens me the most is to see how some so called GLBT persons of color always end up making up excuses or try to disprove as CitizenGeek wrote the prejudices their people show against us. The overwhelming majority of older and senior citizen GLBT people I have meet have always been supportive of civil rights for black people, more often than not choosing to put aside their own fight for equality. Yet when those of them left and those of us who follow them try to claim for us the same rights and protections that they (blacks) now enjoy, blacks have come fully against it and if we dear to call them out on their hypocrisy we are labeled as “divisive” or singling them “out”.

      We have always been supportive of civil rights for blacks + yet they have always deemed us as not deserving of the same rights they enjoy. Truly sad.

      Wake up Gay people!

      Oct 20, 2008 at 12:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JJ
      JJ

      If Andrew Sullivan really cared about defeating proposition 8 he would go to this website:

      https://secure.ga4.org/01/equalityforall?source=towle

      and donate! Any US National may donate.

      Oct 20, 2008 at 12:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      You are labeled as divisive or singling blacks out because you are divisive + single blacks out.

      How many posts have you written about other ethnic groups + their support of or opposition to LGBT rights? Exactly. Perhaps you aren’t the most unbiased spokesperson for that particular issue.

      By “perhaps”, of course, I mean “obviously”.

      Oct 20, 2008 at 1:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      By “you”, I meant Churchy, specifically, obv.

      Oct 20, 2008 at 1:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • M Shane
      M Shane

      Sullivan is pumping up a pseudo-issue as the comment above(the Real John) asserts blacks don’t consist of a statistically significant
      portion of gay voters.
      I have a feeling that blacks generally dislike any minority which competes with their number for any federal goodies or Afirmative action positions across the board. Here in the midwest their dislike is much greater for African peoples, who they claim get all kinds of goodies that they consequently don’t get.

      Even before the religious extremists made statements aboutthe status of sexuality, black activists were at odds with gay people over the notion that thier decision was a choice.

      Oct 20, 2008 at 1:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The Real John
      The Real John

      I just think these Proposition polls in California are notoriously unreliable. Andrew Sullivan has to blowhard to get attention. This story is an example, and the only positive thing about Sullivan’s dumb idea being repeated is it has drawn attention again to Prop. 8 and the need for its defeat.

      I find the Blacks vs. Gays, Blacks vs. Jews, Minority vs. Minority debate tiresome. There’s blame enough for everyone.

      After all, some black gay Jews are racist homophobes and religious bigots.

      With enough TV advertising Obama can win West Virginia. Ask John McCain. Enough tv advertising can surely defeat Prop 8 in California. Send money.

      Oct 20, 2008 at 2:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • waffle twat
      waffle twat

      Churchilly summed himself up nicely just there: “As a gay person, I’m tired of blacks”.

      Whatever, I’m voting for Obi, and unlike some other shrill selfish queens I won’t mention, I understand that it would be political suicide to outright endorse gay marriage at this stage in the game. But I’d bet dollars to truck nutz that he’s got our back better than McLame.

      Oct 20, 2008 at 3:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Landon Bryce
      Landon Bryce

      No one who not deeply homophobic would ever call gay people who are worried about the passage of Proposition 8 “shrill selfish queens.”

      Oct 20, 2008 at 5:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • WhirledTraveler
      WhirledTraveler

      It is the Dem approach to overlooking / ignoring / avoiding the plight of gays that keeps me from voting for them. At least with the GOP you know what evils you are confronting (BTW, I’m not voting for them either.)

      Oct 20, 2008 at 5:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      Unfortunately, Whirled, not voting for either is about the same as casting a spoiler vote for Nader, which more often than not only goes to benefit the GOP.

      As things stand, the pros for gays certainly outweigh the cons when voting the Dem pres. ticket.

      We’re talking about two GOP candidates who, in one way or another, support Prop 8 + decisions like it to ban gay marriage.

      Oct 20, 2008 at 5:59 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • seitan-on-a-stick
      seitan-on-a-stick

      While we will likely get No on 8 passed in California, we will have lost the same fights in Florida and Arizona. Ire should be directed against Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, a Republican (how many idiots voted for him because of his muscles?) Barack Obama wants to politically survive this election and indeed win, the same as Hillary would have and then with the power of the Office of the President, can enact change and create dialogue when whites may have declared the “end of racism” with a President Obama. The dialogue to ending institutionalized “Homophobia” may take several presidencies. We have learned that it is better to create change from within and not by sitting on our hands. WhirledTraveler has every right to vote third party (Gay-inclusive Green and Independent tickets) yet still vote No on Prop 8 (no on Hate) and not affect the electoral outcome.

      Either way, Churchill-y will have to bow down to the first Black President!

      Oct 20, 2008 at 7:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      I’d never vote for a bigot like Obama. But he’s going to win big since he’s fooled a number of naive impressionable people, whom saner people refer to as Democrats.

      That’s because while they pretend to dislike war, bigotry and economic chaos they turn around and vote for more of it. And they have the arrogance to get pissed with people smart enough to see what eternally escapes them, that they’re patsies who enjoy being mugged. They have the same relationship to Obama as an abused spouse has with their abuser, and they keep going back for more even after multiple beatings. DOMA, DADT, ENDA, the hate crimes bill, appointing homophobic judges, erasing GLBT from their platform. And etc., etc., and some more etc.

      seitan – I expect that if CHURCHILL-Y has to “bow down” to Obama he’d soon experience a dozen or so TMI’s in quick succession, followed by a grand mal.

      It would be, as Malcolm X once said, “A case of the chickens coming home to roost.” Or in this case, to burst.

      Oct 20, 2008 at 8:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • gkruz
      gkruz

      “Though lukewarm, Obama did…”
      I suspect that phrase will be frequently used by future historians when chronicling Obama’s administration.

      Oct 20, 2008 at 10:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • crazylove
      crazylove

      Politically this is stupid. Not because of the issue, but because no Presidential race runs the way you describe. Why not ask why won’t Obama come on any non broad based issue as well? Let me give you an example- in the same state CA- there is a ballot prop that will require parent notification for abortion. Obama supports the right to choose- is anyone asking him to come out to support No on this as well. Obama has said he does not support Prop 8. FOr the record, as a general rule, candidates with a lead in the race tend to at this point not come up with any thing that will hurt that lead. That’s political reality, and would be so no matter who it was. This site, and several of its posters, are fucking naive. If you want to ask a real question- ask why of the 1 million gay voters in CA- only 30,000 donate to the No Vote on the ban on gay marriage. That would be a question that required many of you to look in the mirror at our own community. Why haven’t we built a coalition with people that doesn’t require us to tap into it at the last minute? I could go on- but what would be the fucking point. You people are why we keep failing on these issues.

      Oct 20, 2008 at 11:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • crazylove
      crazylove

      By the way- not that you give a shit, but I am black, gay and out. Fuck you and your racist generalization about what all blacks believe. If you look at even the half ass poll on the subject- blacks are only 10 percent more likely to vote for the ban as against it versus white, and the reality is no one, not one ad, or real effort has been set up to have a real conversation with my other community. Instead, I see shit like this. I am really disappointed in you and this site right now.

      Oct 20, 2008 at 11:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • crazylove
      crazylove [Different person #1 using similar name]

      By the way- to put the racism being put on display here into context here are the numbers about california:

      I understand the California demographics chart properly at wikipedia:

      African Americans make up 7.45 percent of the population of California.

      White (Non-Hispanic) make up 45.48 percent of the population.

      Hispanics make up 33.59.

      According to Survey USA– the breakdown of vote for the race is as follows:

      White: 48% against gay marriage, 47% support gay marriage

      Black: 58% against gay marriage, 38% support gay marriage

      Hispanic: 47% against gay marriage, 41% support gay marriage.

      In other words, there is at best a 10 percent different between the views of blacks and whites. A small, but not significant number. Why? Because even if one came to parity given population with blacks and whites supporting gay marriage equally (we are talking only a ten percent difference) I don’t now if population wise it would change outcomes.

      More than this, the reality is that the gay community as far as I can tell isn’t reaching out to either the Latino community (which could heavily influence the outcome) or the black community. So those numbers are based on just having probably not been exposed to a prop gay marriage campaign or messaging of any kind.

      In short, – blacks are being used as scapegoats because of gay racism. But, ssshhhh, you aren’t supppose to be able to use numbers to disprove strongly held racist cw.

      The problem is that white voters only barely are for it in this poll even after being the targeted of support amongst the white gay community, and Latino (another community of which there is no apparent outreach) are against by about 7 percent.

      By the way- there are more Asian/Pacific Island in California at 14 percent (almost twice as many) as there are African Americans. This is just trying to provide deeper analysis of why the prop is in is in trouble of passing.

      I already previously mentioned the lack of support amongst gays for stopping the amendment. Something like 30,000 if I understand correctly of gay Californians have donated (well probably much less since the donations include straight allies like Daily Kos which raised 150k this weekend alone).

      However, someone else said, and I agree- we should wait to see real polling because this poll isn’t all that good once one gets into the internals. I await further polling from field which I trust better to provide grater insight. It is also not that good because I do wonder about the youth vote and its view of sexual orientation. In the west (including I am guessing California) the CBS poll had it at 40 percent favors gay marriage and 26 civil unions for ages 18-29, but I am not sure what the breakdown is for California specifically.

      Oct 20, 2008 at 11:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • hal
      hal

      I just wanted to thank all you dear white queens for my freedom. Really. Some of you act like you personally signed the fucking emancipation proclamation on the way to the stud. Please. White gay men won’t go near people of color unless they are “latin”, or to indulge your rice queen or mandigo fantasies, but some of you act like minorities OWE you. The civil rights movement was not Rosa Park on a bus, Martin Luther King’s I Have a Dream speech, civil rights legislation and boom! Barack Obama. There was a lot of bullshit in between and that just may be the case here. Keep working at it.

      Oct 21, 2008 at 12:13 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mr C
      Mr C

      And thank you Crazy Love for what you just posted.

      Ever since Hillary lost this nomination.
      Do you some of you notice that Queerty ONLY post alleged BLACK HOMOPHOBIA????? And usually these posts get the most reponses.
      Strange isn’t it?

      Why do you all seem to except homophobia from whites, latinos, and asians??????
      Is it due to self identity and accepting different minorities groups? So you blame Blacks because maybe how you were raised at home in regards to race?
      Strange isn’t it?

      I never see any nasty stereotypes of whites, hispanics, or asians on here. But at many time of Blacks we see it. But remember we BLACKS are always throwing the race card!
      Strange isn’t it?

      Hypothetically, If Hillary was the nominee with Prop 8 going on. Queerty would you still be making African Americans the scape goat on your blog in regards to homophobia? I don’t think so.

      And how would some of you whites feel about it. Because remmeber she doesn’t approve of gay marriage neither! But then again that’s OK if she doesn’t but it isn’t if Barack doesn’t.

      Strange isn’t it?

      I never knew we could make such a commotion amongst folks. Then again we’re just being made scapegoats.

      And that isn’t strange at all!

      Oct 21, 2008 at 12:21 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • crazylove
      crazylove [Different person #1 using similar name]

      “White gay men won’t go near people of color unless they are “latin”, or to indulge your rice queen or mandigo fantasies, but some of you act like minorities OWE you.”

      This is the part that galls me about this conversation. Nevermind it’s factually wrong as to the context to claim that blacks are so much more against gays than whites (again 10 percent different here). But, its the white privilege angle that drives me insane amongst white gay men.

      Did you think this was going to be easy? It took from 1910 when the NAACP first came up with its legal strategy to end Jim Crow until the 1960s to see tangible fruits from their efforts. It took over 100 years to overturn Plessy v Ferguson with Brown v Board.

      The gay movement is relatively young. We have went in less than 20 years from gay sex being effectly outlawed under Bowers v. Hardwick to it being overturned with the Lawrence decision. This is unheard of.

      Yet, your reaction to a little work here is to win that blacks the reason you aren’t being treated equally.

      The delusion of such statements is made clear by the fact of which most states, many of them with minimal people of color populations, have bans against gay marriage.

      Indeed, it’s your fellow whites who are discriminating against you since you want to racialize this.

      The privlege part comes into play where you think you weren’t going to have to work for it. This isn’t reality for any minority or opressed group. It’s not fair. but that’s the way life is. Blacks had to deal with this. So did a lot of others- ask yourself- why did you think it would be different for you?

      Oct 21, 2008 at 12:25 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Roy Pyatt
      Roy Pyatt

      I have said from the beginning of this election cycle if we as GLBT Americans continue to choose the lesser of two evils we will always be second class citizens with all the rights afforded to second class citizens.
      I will vote for Obama and continue to have second class rights.

      Oct 21, 2008 at 12:25 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • crazylove
      crazylove [Different person #1 using similar name]

      You are wrong Roy. You have the lesser rights because you aren’t willing to suffer to obtain more than what you have now. You want it handed to you. When I tell white gays that they have got to go into communities outside of their comfort zones, I am told about how it can’t be done.

      My high school principle coached an girls basketball team down South as it was segregating. They use to go into gyms to play white girls. They had people spit on them despite being in hostile territory because they were fighting to become first class citizens.

      How many of you here are willing to sacrfice anything?

      Oct 21, 2008 at 12:31 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • kevin57
      kevin57

      I think there are good arguments posted on both sides of this political divide, but the one attitude that distresses me are those who defend Obama because he’s trying to win this election…as if the pragmatic question of strategy and not principles is the key one. Thomas More said, “Those who forsake their conscience for the sake of their duty lead their people by a short road to perdition.” Reflect.

      Oct 21, 2008 at 12:35 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Roy Pyatt
      Roy Pyatt

      Well Crazylove you don’t know me. I have volunteered over 4000 hours to HIV/AIDS organizations, Equal Rights and GLBT Community Centers serving people of all creeds colors and religeons. I have Protested at Political Rallies and News organizations I felt were unfair to any people. I have been bashed to the point of having no memory of the event. I have fought for equal rights. Don’t ASSume you know Me or anyone else for that matter!

      Oct 21, 2008 at 12:38 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • crazylove
      crazylove [Different person #1 using similar name]

      Roy- I don’t need to know you. I don’t personally care about you, as in the singular you. I was using the plural. You, the singular, may want to ask whether one is using the plural or singular the next time you want to ASSume. But let’s be honest- this isn’t about plural and singular versions of you. It’s that I struck a nerve. How many of our fellow gays were there with you Roy?

      Oct 21, 2008 at 1:06 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Roy Pyatt
      Roy Pyatt

      You weren’t there with me I know that. I think we all know that Crazy is the opperative word in your name.

      Oct 21, 2008 at 1:13 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • crazylove
      crazylove [Different person #1 using similar name]

      Kevin

      I knew one of you would miss the point. So let me try this in simpler and conciser terms.

      It’s not a defense of Obama because he is trying to win an election.

      It’s saying that no campaign runs the way that people here describe.

      Sullivan knows this. In the last 2 weeks of election, no new messaging is added by the main campaign because of messaging discipline.

      That’s not about our issue or anyone elses. It’s about the simple reality of politics. Candidates at this juncture have limited time– they are hitting broad strokes. That’s the reality of trying to reach a wide audience with a limited time to do so.

      Obama already came out against Prop 8 months ago. More than this, he right now is dealing with the sickness of his grandmother if you didn’t know.

      The fact you got Biden- the VP to come out supporting No today was pretty major. Biden is no average surrogate. He’s going to be the VP. Compare this to Palin who came out in favor of a federal Constitional ban on gay marriage.

      The privlege part is where you think you are somehow at this juncture supposed to be singled out. More than that, even though you have been, because Biden didn’t have to support the No on 8 at all- you still respond “you didn’t do anything.”

      It’s the people here being silly. IN other words, I am commenting on your naivette about politics. Not apologizing for Obama.

      Oct 21, 2008 at 1:14 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • crazylove
      crazylove [Different person #1 using similar name]

      Roy

      I don’t need to be there with you. I can read stats- can you? I know that not many gays are doing much volunteering. I know that, if the numbers I am reading are to believed, of 1 million gays in California, less than 30,000 have given to No on 8. I can go on, but what would be the point. You insist on pesonalizing this to Roy , and arguing against that. Find, go ahead. Knock yourself out.

      Oct 21, 2008 at 1:16 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Steve
      Steve

      Obama isn’t just trying to win an election. He is trying to win a 60-vote Senate. With a 60-vote senate, lots of things can happen. Repeal of DOMA and DADT is likely. An “equal rights” statute of some sort is also very possible. Some of those things might happen with only a 58 or 59 vote Senate, because the R’s would have to pick their fights and might choose not to fight those. But with 60, it is much easier.

      If Obama talks about marriage, it is likely to cost several swing states. That would just be rising to take the Republican bait. Having Biden and others talk about marriage is the smart move. That keeps it a CA issue, and avoids raising the Republicans favorite push-button issue in other states.

      Oct 21, 2008 at 3:13 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mr C
      Mr C

      Steve some folks are too stupid to understand that!

      Oct 21, 2008 at 4:03 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      Sullivan and the racists are wrong. And Seve must be on drugs to ease the pain of his total spinectomy.

      It’s not the sentiments of Blacks, Hispanics, Asians and Pacific Islanders In California that we have to be afraid of.

      It’s the fact that No on 8 is unable to carry out the two most critical tasks necessary to win in California.

      First, their loyalty is to the Democratic Party and not the LGBT communities. They cannot bring themselves to accurately and loudly attack the bigotry of Obama and Biden’s prejudice about same sex marriage. They don’t hold back from calling the backers of Prop. 8 bigots so their cowering silence about Obama is deafening. His constant chanting of ‘god’s in the mix” is a green light to anyone who wants to vote for Prop. 8. They should tell him to shut his mouth and if not campaign against him in the GLBT communities.

      Second is their unwillingness to mount a specifically dedicated effort to take the fight into the minority communities with language appropriate ads, literature, and organized debates. Their refusal to call out the Democrats on their bigotry and their inability to see the necessity of taking fight into minority communities has the effect of allowing the christers to dominate the discussion there.

      We could easily lose. Every time Obama shoots off his mouth about ‘god’ hardens our status as second class citizens in the eyes of those tempted to vote their bigotry. People listen to what he says and to what No on 8 is afraid to say.

      Oct 21, 2008 at 4:09 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      I strongly disagree with that statement, as there are some who are strong in their faith/religion but don’t oppose LGBT rights. Rev. Al Sharpton, for example, has found that balance.

      It’s more rare than I’d like, but one can find persons for whom “faith” doesn’t mean “anti-gay”.

      At any rate, I really would like us to get beyond this race vs. sexuality feuding + find some common ground.

      Oct 21, 2008 at 4:29 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      “but one can find persons for whom “faith” doesn’t mean “anti-gay.”

      There are seven of them. One each in Montana, New Jersey and Texas and two each in California and Tennessee. There was another one in Colorado but she died years ago.

      Al Sharpton is about as much a ‘man of faith” as Malcolm X was, which is why I admire him. Malcolm X’s faith was a revolutionary determination to liquidate the practice of racism.

      Oct 21, 2008 at 4:43 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • blake
      blake

      I find it fascinating how few people here commented on the Sarah Palin is for a constitutional amendment than this thread.

      In particular, the regular racists had a chance to come out and spew their anti-black hatred here but didn’t bother to say anything about Sarah Palin’s blatantly anti-gay statements?

      Hmm…could you suppose that the more Queerty readers are obsessed with racism against someone who is a friend of gay people than they are about standing up against a real enemy of gay people? Could it be that a white homophobe like Palin gets a free pass by many Queerty readers? Say it ain’t so!

      Well, yeah, it is so!

      You’d rather attack Obama than take issue with your true enemy Sarah Palin because she’s white. Right, Church-nazi?

      Reality check: There are more white voters in California than black. Reality check: Obama already came out in against prop 8.

      As others have said, look at the big picture: A Democratic controlled Senate means the death of DOMA and ensured selection of liberal judges for the Supreme Court.

      Most of the comments here are racist, either directly so or veiled.

      Andrew Sullivan knows full well that Obama engaged Joe Biden to be point man on this. Moreover, Sarah Palin already is attacking Obama for supporting same sex marriage.

      But again, you people refuse to take your anger and vitriol and lay it at the feet of the real enemy, Sarah Palin because she’s white. Right, Church-nazi? You bitch and moan about “black” people even though they are a minority. You align yourself with the GOP who denounce gays but then get all upset when the black people you hate aren’t nice to you. What a crybaby asswipe.

      Of anyone on this site, Church-nazi represents the worst of America. His racism is not superseded by his ignorance; they are equal. They are both, however, eclipsed by his narcissism and outshone by his venal hatred.
      ————

      Bill,

      Obama came out against Prop 8. Right? Just how long did it take Ellen Degeneres do something? Where are the other big, white gay stars?

      What about looking at the real villains here: the Church of the Latter Day Saints. Aren’t they the ones who have been pouring money into this line a wino unyielding tap and a bottomless glass?

      Again, see the posting on Sarah Palin supporting a federal anti-gay marriage amendment. Understand that she is the designated out reach person to the Religious Right and attack dog against Obama.

      Church-nazi? Hello, why aren’t you talking to your fellow white racists in the GOP about not voting against Prop 8. Surely your fellow “hard working” Americans in the “heartland” about whom you always squeal with delight must be eager to support your gay ways? Surely, you should be able to take your great Aryan ass into your local LDS church and the shine of your alabaster skin must blind them of their anti-gay thoughts?

      What? Church-nazi, the fact that your pallid flesh doesn’t automatically give you first class citizenship status to immediately burn the homophobia away gives you pause? You mean to say that your fellow whites see you as a pervert? A freak? A second class citizen?

      I see. So, now you expect that the colored folks must act unlike the way white folks you adore so much. They should treat you with the respect that you REFUSE to treat them.

      Logic? Logic? Logic? Poor Church-nazi. What’s he to do? His Aryan brothers and sisters, whom he loves with all his snowy white skinned goodness, reject him. The brown folks, whom he hates, refuse to follow his orders. Damn, damn, damn. What a racist homo to do?

      Oct 21, 2008 at 5:50 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CHURCHILL-Y
      CHURCHILL-Y

      Roy Pyatt, you nailed it. Funny how the drones like the Crazy think they know it all about people like you while in reality they don’t know shit. You Roy are the perfect example of the many GLBT people I have meet who have fought against injustice for all(more often for african Americans than for any other group) yet when the moment comes to have the same human courtesy and support you have given them you are brushed off by them as “divisive” or not “willing to suffer”.
      Or get told as some have posted here before, that they don’t need to support you in anyway because they don’t owe you nothing.

      Brace yourselves GLBT folks, not only are we going to loose marriage equality in CA courtesy of Obama and the minorities but if Obama gets into the White House we’re gonna have to endure at least four years of any criticism of him and his thugs being silenced by accusations of racism.

      Oct 21, 2008 at 6:35 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CHURCHILL-Y
      CHURCHILL-Y

      That and “an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy(Obama).”- Joe Biden

      Lovely just what America needs!

      Oct 21, 2008 at 6:45 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Marty
      Marty

      Obama is avoiding all of the wedge issues in his campaign. He does want to win, after all. The Republicans are being hateful enough, if Obama trotted out support for GLBT issues, the Repubs would go ballistic and “rally the base” to make sure we stay marginalized. He is smart to not involve us since there is nothing he could do right now anyway.

      Oct 21, 2008 at 6:46 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      Blake… You asked if “Obama came out against Prop 8. Right?’

      Yes. I never denied it. I just think it’s a little PR whitewash to cover a lot of bigotry. He sent a letter to a breakfast meeting of the Alice B. Toklas Club in Frisco. Note the ringing call to arms in Obama’s letter of July 02 2008

      “And that is why I oppose the divisive and discriminatory efforts to amend the California Constitution…”

      A month or so later he was deep in palest Orange County at Saddleback church trawling for bigots and said

      “I am not somebody who promotes same-sex marriage, but I do believe in civil unions”

      That puts us in the separate but equal status of second class citizens. And keep in mind that Obama is a constitutional scholar; he knows exactly what he’s doing. He’s a very concise and clearheaded bigot.

      At the same bigotfest Obama got downright sanctimonious about his prejudices, and like all opportunist hustlers, claimed a special relation with On High. He said:

      I believe that marriage is the union between a man and a woman. Now, for me as a Christian … it’s also a sacred union. You know, God’s in the mix.

      And he keeps on chanting the same bigoted bullshit, and so does Biden, so what exactly is your point?

      So now you answer a question, Blake. Exactly why do you support a party infested by bigots given their long record of homophobic bigotry.

      DOMA and DADT passed and signed by Clinton with the overwhelming support of both parties.

      ENDA gutted by Barney Frank aided by Pelosi and Kennedy with the overwhelming support of both parties.

      The majority of both parties refused to repeal DOMA and DADT while the Democrats ran Congress since 1996.

      Voting to put blatantly open misogynists and homophobes in the DOJ and on the New Orleans federal Circuit Court of Appeals led by Dianne Feinstein and a bakers dozen of Senate Democrats.

      Refusing to acknowledge the existence of the LGBT communities in his platform and keeping up a steady drum beat of bigotry about same sex marriage is the line of Obama and most Democrats in Congress.

      The Democrats are not the solution, they’re the problem.

      Oct 21, 2008 at 6:53 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • crazylove
      crazylove [Different person #1 using similar name]

      Bill and Church are liars and a waste of time.

      a) The Democrats raised 150k this weekend alone for the No Against Prop 8 campaign. Is there any other issue. Many of them straight donors because the gay ones aren’t donating shit.

      b) Obama has come out in support of the No against 8, but McCain has not. You can check his views on other gay issues very easily too. There also a majority of Democrats against DADT, and they plan to bring it up once their is a realistic chance to end the discrimination. The mistake CLinton made was to try to pass it without having built momentum for it. In the same way that he made mistakes on healthcare and other issues, and got destroyed for the same political naivette and most likely I m thinking you aren’t so much naive so much as trolls.

      The McCain position has been to actively discriminate against us and to give money to the discriminating causes.

      Bill Purdue and Church are liars.

      Oct 21, 2008 at 10:19 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      Har har.

      There are even gay clergy in more inclusive churches, Billiam.

      Oct 21, 2008 at 12:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mr C
      Mr C

      Bill Predue, Is very intelligent in expressing his views. I enjoy engaging in convo with him.

      But that idiot Churchill-Y. Isn’t she just a radical racial joke?

      Oct 21, 2008 at 1:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mr C
      Mr C

      I meant Perdue SORRY Bud excuse the typo.

      Oct 21, 2008 at 1:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • crazylove
      crazylove [Different person #2 using similar name]

      assertions of fact aren’t a matter of intelligence. either he is right or wrong on the facts. here, his blanket statements are factually wrong.

      Oct 21, 2008 at 2:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      crazylove, your petulant cluelessness is getting tiresome. The attempts of shills like yourself to defend the party which holds the title as “most homophobic” based on their record fall on deaf ears.

      The Democratic Party which you supinely support and their Republican accomplices are the enemy. You’re one of those dishonest and spineless Democrats who insist on defending bigotry against our GLBT communities. You want us to join you in craven approval of their bigotry (DOMA, DADT, ENDA, hate crimes, etc.) as long as it’s a ‘lesser evil’ bigotry. You’re self-destructive. And apparently lonely. You crave company as you and the other lemmings toss themselves off the cliff when you supinely vote for ‘god’s in the mix’.

      Your kind of Democrats and CHURCHILL-Y’s kind or Republicans are what’s making those two parties extinct, even if they and you are too clueless to figure it out. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

      After Obama wins he’ll begin to betray working people with austerity measures to tame the $13-$15 trillion dollar national debt he, Clinton, Carter, Reagan and the Bush’s created. He’ll enlarge and continue the war and says so. The austerity created by national debt will create deep cuts in social programs of all kinds, including spending on HIV. Obama is anti-immigrant and has no program, none at all to aid the Black, Latino, Native and Pacific Islander communities who always find out that in economic hard times “Last hired, first Fired” applies with a vengeance. Only unions, as apposed to pro-business hustlers like Obama, will fight for equality on the job.

      Obama will turn hope rage and we’ll see the birth and rebirth of mass movements that alone can compel meaningful change. But I don’t expect to see people like you at our demonstrations and meetings; you’ll be off with CHURCHILL-Y looking for an abuser. You’re a professional victim.

      And a clueless victim. Get some facts about DOMA, DADT, ENDA, hate crimes, etc. and prove that they weren’t the work of the Democrats – and if you don’t present then the view that you’re just a gasbag shill for an opportunist hustler will be confirmed. As it stands you’re just a simple mined hack, and a petulant one to boot. People like you should get used to losing – you’re going to be doing a lot of it after the elections.

      Oct 21, 2008 at 7:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • crazylove
      crazylove [Different person #2 using similar name]

      I trust the numbers, the reality that Biden did something that VP nominees who are ahead dont normally do by coming out against prop 8, the fact that most of the money being raised is coming from Democratic funders such as Bing and Kos, the fact that demographic numbers in the state plus actual percentage for/against etc to speak for themselves as facts.

      You trust repeating your opinion.

      That’s the difference between you and me.

      Oct 21, 2008 at 9:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • crazylove
      crazylove [Different person #2 using similar name]

      By the way- I will once more suggest you learn how to deal with the fight in front of you rather than trying to refight old battles. You sound like someone with a lot of baggage that prevents you from seeing what’s in front of you. I don’t want to psycho babble you, but you seem to think posting what happened with DADT, etc matters to the battle that is occuring right now.

      Oct 21, 2008 at 9:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • crazylove
      crazylove [Different person #2 using similar name]

      one final by the way. As a black guy who happens to also be gay, let me give you a real world example of how harping on the past when people are helping you with the present isn’t fruitful:

      “[edit] Race and race relations

      Portrait of then-Majority Leader ByrdIn a March 4, 2001 interview with Tony Snow, Byrd said of race relations:

      They’re much, much better than they’ve ever been in my lifetime… I think we talk about race too much. I think those problems are largely behind us… I just think we talk so much about it that we help to create somewhat of an illusion. I think we try to have good will. My old mom told me, ‘Robert, you can’t go to heaven if you hate anybody.’ We practice that. There are white niggers. I’ve seen a lot of white niggers in my time. I’m going to use that word. We just need to work together to make our country a better country, and I’d just as soon quit talking about it so much.[35]
      Byrd’s use of the term white nigger created immediate controversy. When asked about it, Byrd responded,

      I apologize for the characterization I used on this program… The phrase dates back to my boyhood and has no place in today’s society… In my attempt to articulate strongly held feelings, I may have offended people.[35]
      Byrd has since explicitly renounced his earlier views on racial segregation.[36][37] Byrd said that he regrets filibustering and voting against the Civil Rights Act of 1964[15] and would change it if he had the opportunity. He has stated that joining the KKK was “the greatest mistake I ever made”.[36] Byrd has also said that his views changed dramatically after his teenage grandson was killed in a 1982 traffic accident, which put him in a deep emotional valley. “The death of my grandson caused me to stop and think,” said Byrd, adding he came to realize that black people love their children as much as he does his.[38]

      Byrd is the only Senator to have voted against the nominations of both Thurgood Marshall and Clarence Thomas to the United States Supreme Court, the only two African Americans to have been nominated to the court. Marshall’s confirmation vote came in 1967 when Byrd and other segregationist senators were opposed to the idea of a black integrationist being placed on the court.[39] In order to gain evidence against Marshall’s appointment, Byrd asked FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover to look into what Byrd believed to be the possibility that Marshall had either connections to communists or a potential communist past.[40] Byrd opposed Thomas because Byrd stated that he was “offended” by Thomas using the phrase “high-tech lynching of uppity blacks” in his defense. Byrd stated that he was “offended by the injection of racism” into the hearing. He called Justice Thomas’ comments a mere “diversionary tactic”. Byrd commented upon the “racism” issue that Thomas raised by stating that “I (Byrd) thought we were past that stage.” Byrd dismissed Thomas’ racism charges by stating that Thomas exhibited “arrogance” and Thomas’ comments were “nonsense, nonsense.” Regarding Anita Hill’s sexual harassment charges against Thomas, Byrd believed Hill.[41] Byrd joined 45 other Democrats in their opposition to Thomas.[42] Byrd also opposed some of George W. Bush’s judicial and cabinet nominees who were black, notably Federal Judge Janice Rogers Brown and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. Despite his opposition to Brown’s appointment, Byrd would later ally himself with the Gang of 14 that would ensure that Brown’s nomination would not be filibustered.

      In the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People’s (NAACP)[43] Congressional Report Card for the 108th Congress (spanning the 2003–2004 congressional session), Byrd was awarded with an approval rating of 100% for favoring the NAACP’s position in all 33 bills presented to the United States Senate regarding issues of their concern. Only 16 other Senators of the same session matched this approval rating. In June 2005, Byrd[44] proposed an additional $10 million in federal funding for the Martin Luther King memorial in Washington, D.C., remarking that “With the passage of time, we have come to learn that his Dream was the American Dream, and few ever expressed it more eloquently.”

      On May 19, 2008, Senator Byrd endorsed Barack Obama in the Democratic presidential primary, over rival Senator Hillary Clinton.[45″

      Your closest historical example of how the Democrats have done us wrong is over a decade old. Right now, we have a candidate who has used some of his political capital to put out his VP to support the No on 8 Campaign. We have a blog dedicated to electing Democrats like Daily Kos, which as of today has raised 180k for No on 8. When I say facts, and how your arguments can’t compete, there is historical context. YOu call it petulance. I call it wanting to win the battle before us. I leave the bitterness to you.

      Oct 21, 2008 at 9:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      The futility of the attempt of minor party hacks like yourself to ‘reform’ one of the two parties owned by big business is not just lame and hilarious, it’s pathetic.

      You’re lying when you say that “Your closest historical example of how the Democrats have done us wrong is over a decade old.”

      Was ENDA wrecked about this time last year to pander to bigots in business or ten years ago?

      Was the Matthew Shepard Hate Crimes bill scuttled last December to pander to bigots in general or ten years ago?

      DOMA and DADT were passed by huge bipartisan majorities ten years ago but the Democrats, lying with a promise to end the war, have controlled Congress for two years and won’t repeal them because they and the Republicans are infested with bigots. If you can’t see that you’re blind as a bat.

      The DNC, led by porcine bigots like Leah Daughtry, backed by Howard Dean, just recently began to defend them selves from charges that they bigots in their hiring and firing practices by their former LBGT outreach director and not ten years ago. They tried to settle but the judge or arbitrator laughed them out of court. $100,000.00 won’t even begin to cover legal costs much less the settlement, which comes out of the pockets of naive people who donate money to the Democrats.

      Obama ordered the platform committee to delete all mention of GLBT folks from his platform so he could go on pandering. That didn’t occur ten years ago it happened, I think, in February or March.

      Obama consistently panders to bigots. He did it with his bigoted revival style tent meetings in the South featuring homophobic vermin like MaryMary and the most reverend and formerly gay Donnie McClurkin. He panders to bigots when he accepts the endorsement of rancid bigots like Colin Powell, who along with Clinton and one of Obama’s closet advisors Sam Nunn authored DADT. Doug Kmiec, a catholic cultist endorses both Prop. 8 and Obama, which is not so surprising when you think about it. Catholic cultists, if you remember, are the ones who rape little boys and then hot foot if off to the Vatican to take refuge.

      People who pander to bigots and empower bigots are themselves bigots. People who tolerate that are losers – deliberate losers.

      Do you imagine in your cluelessness that Obama and Biden are doing us a favor when they chant “god’s in the mix” over and over. If so you’re even more craven than we thought. And how often do they do that. They did it ten years ago and they’re doing it every day.

      As I’ve told you before, I’m not bitter. It’s what Obama, Biden, Barney Frank, Reid, Kennedy and Pelosi do to us that’s so bitter. They trash our agenda over and over.

      Far from being bitter I’m quite content to wait until people begin to react to more war, more austerity and more pandering to bigots. Then I and others on the left will politically dismantle the political hold of the next administration brick by brick. Because we know that’s the only way to protect Americans from war, bigotry and economic chaos.

      And, as I also said before you’re just a shill, and not a very good one at that.

      Have a nice day.

      Oct 21, 2008 at 10:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • crazylove
      crazylove [Different person #1 using similar name]

      you re a waste of time. good luck.

      Oct 21, 2008 at 10:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      Still no facts? That’s because there aren’t any and after being proven a liar you’re going to pick up you marbles and run home.

      What else did we expect?

      Bye.

      Oct 21, 2008 at 10:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Penelope
      Penelope

      Why is Barack Obama responsible for how black folks vote in California or anywhere else on this issue or any other?

      Yes, I think he should make a clear statement denouncing Prop 8 if that is where his beliefs are (and it would seem that they would be).

      But I think the idea that as goes Barack Obama, so goes the black for is just ridiculous.

      Black folks are individuals just like white folks are individuals. They will vote their conscious (for the good or the bad vis a vis gay issues).

      As an African American dyke in NYC, I would hope that “my people” in Cally would get a clue and come out strongly against Prop 8, but either way, I’m not holding Obama or any other prominent black voice responsible for what individual people do.

      Oct 22, 2008 at 11:36 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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