my “brother” is a trans ftm. i watched this transition and the process up close and personal over 30 years ago. do you know what the first step to being accepted for surgery is? to “pass” as the target gender for a year. so what did that mean for my sibling? it meant acting extra “manly” to counter the fact that she was a fine boned short woman (5’1″). what is that except reinforcing gender stereotypes? i hope we can all agree that is exactly the opposite direction we need to go in as a society and is against the principles of freedom. if my sibling would have acted like a so-called effeminate man she would have failed the test and not gotten the surgery she became convinced she needed to be happy. “he” doesn’t seem any happier today, but it is certain that the hormones and srs (sex reassignment surgery) has shortened his life. i privately believe this was the wrong decision, made only because my family is incredibly misogynistic. i would never tell him this because i know it’s too late and would only hurt him.

please think about this carefully. what does this process say about effeminate men? that they are not real men because if you acted like that you wouldn’t get srs surgery? i am so stunned that the gay community hasn’t bothered to consider that trans people don’t just have a “different” agenda, but that their agenda is in fact the opposite to what gays and the women’s movement historically has fought for over many decades: freedom from gender stereotypes. extreme gender stereotyping is the root cause of so much unhappiness – with one’s body (not just for trans, but women/men who think they’re too tall/short or fat, etc.), also the cause of gay bashing etc.

i love my sibling and i know there is a lot of pain he tried to address with srs, but this wholesale acceptance of srs as the solution to what is a psychological/social issue is not good in the long term. it is a detrimental force in our society in that it reinforces gender stereotypes by definition.

i am sick of hearing people say, “i’m a man trapped in a woman’s body”, and no one ever notices that that is a completely absurd statement. or the idea that srs just makes the outside appearance match the inner person. think, don’t just accept something because people repeat the same absurdity over and over! what if i said i wanted surgery to make me tall because i’m a tall person trapped in a short person’s body? sure, I could find a doctor to do that somewhere, but that doesn’t make it a wise decision, just because surgeons can do things like that now? what if, like on the south park episode (i highly recommend it: Mr. Garrison’s shiney new vagina – i think that’s the title) i said i was really a black person in a white body? would “negroplasty” really be advisable, even if i claimed i was happier afterward?

surgical and medical solutions to life problems are all too popular today. at some point, i think people should at least be encouraged to accept their bodies as they are, especially when they are fully functional and healthy. people die from surgeries. there are risks. you can’t really go back if you realize, as many trans people have, that they regretted their srs.

i don’t reject trans people. i accept their individual decisions – it is their life. but i am asking some questions about the bigger picture. i want all people to be happy and equal and free. i think there is a big problem in our society when a radical new approach to a newly defined “problem” like so called gender dysphoria is not fully debated. there still is no gay marriage and the debates have gone on for decades, yet there is no real debate about srs, even though this is far more radical in that it is irreversible and risks death. hasn’t anyone else noticed that when the subject appears on the news, there is never any counter-opinion questioning srs. but mention gay marriage, and you have no trouble finding ministers who openly expound irrational views on the evils of homosexuality. why is that?

for those that accept srs with all good intentions in the name of accepting differences: do you know that there has never been any rigorous scientific follow-up on the long term outcomes? everyone has a story of how they know someone who seems happier after srs. but you don’t know that other approaches might have also brought happiness. worse, the first follow up studies showed srs did not result in any benefit overall, statistically. they were unhappy before, and they were unhappy after srs as they realized they could never be fully functional as the other gender. look it up: johns hopkins stopped doing srs a long time ago for this reason. many commit suicide afterward because they have irreversibly mutilated their bodies, but no one keeps track of long term outcomes. that should trouble everyone. if the outcomes are good then show us the research, show us the scientific basis and numbers.

i know this will anger many people because it has become politically incorrect to question this approach for people unhappy in their gender. but please, give these arguments some thought. thank you to qjersey #3 for posing a very good question that few ever ask – that alone is remarkable.

it takes a lot of courage to question popular opinion. thank you.

he can’t ‘become a man’ because he already is a man, she’s just changing her body to suit this.

I suspect those who want to divorce trans people from the LGBT movement have gender insecurities of their own that need to be addressed. There are far less trans people than homosexuals, and excluding them gender-related rights legislation is a body blow to their relatively tiny community. And all to protect our fragile sense of masculinity.

Empathy is one of the key things that separate humans from beasts. Those here who refuse to “understand” what transsexualism is make me ashamed to be a gay man.

sorry everyone wasnt born as perfect as the people critcizing on here!

Well, “spiritual theories” are about the way the world is, as this one was. So if it’s about the way world is, then it needs to be testable or falsifiable like any other claim about the way the world is. Now how would I go about confirming this hypothesis? That’s what it is…and that’s what every other “spiritual theory” is, too…

<iThere are many concepts on the planet that can’t be formally tested under our current scientific models.

Right, and if that’s true, are they “concepts on the planet”? Rather, are they concepts “about the planet”? Nah…unfalsifiable claims that have no connection at all to experience are not hypotheses about the way the world is…

As an alternative way of viewing his post, no one yet knows what creates hetero / homo sexuality or sexual identity. Sure there are plenty of ideas out there, but they too are nothing more than theories.

Oh, okay, so you appeal to ignorance about knowing the scientific theories of human sexual orientation…none of them make mention of spirits or ghosts. And state that all scientific theories which are testable to varying degrees, and are thus equal. Who knew that caloric was the equal to kinetic theory in explaining temperature! IT’s just taste that determines the difference…I personally feel that chemists are being awfully unfair to alchemists and that astronomers need to listen to astrologers because, after all…it’s all the same in what they purport to actualy KNOW about the universe.

There is actually very little in the universe that has been proven.

Shifty! “proven” to you means something that science cannot do–prove an empirical posit to the degree of certainty of a mathematical truth. YOu don’t know what science is, though…

Most universal laws are not that at all, just pretty logical theories until they are disproven and another theory takes its place.

Or what a logical theory is. A universal law…hmmm, what do you mean by universal law? Do you mean a law of nature? Oh, okay…so laws of nature are not laws of nature….that violates self identity, which is a law of logic–that which determines meaningful sentences from meanintless sentences.

It’s so different for myself or anybody else who is trans. I’m at a point in my life, now that I’ve succeeded in my transition, where I am at peace with myself and who I am. I continually strive for personal growth like everyone else, but ultimately I am now happy with my gendered life. But, until recently, it wasn’t always like that. To have a mind that can’t match your physiology is a nightmarish situation that is difficult to escape, and unfortunately all to often the “cure” is perceived as worse than the “disease.” Finding my gender was a difficult struggle that almost tore my life apart. The only path to finding that peace was to realize who I really was, inside, a woman.

Yet so many people strive to deny me that right. To project their own opinions about who I am on me. Yet how can anybody else do that? Nobody has my experience in life but myself. Without that crucial bit of evidence, nobody can say who I am but me. Otherwise, if you are free to tell me that I am a man, then I am just as free to tell you who you are – whether I should choose to invalidate your gender, culture, religion, social status or any other aspect of your life.

You stick to your own privilege, and I’ll gladly stick to mine. Otherwise, all bets are off.

His post is about a spiritual theory, not a physical one. There are many concepts on the planet that can’t be formally tested under our current scientific models.

As an alternative way of viewing his post, no one yet knows what creates hetero / homo sexuality or sexual identity. Sure there are plenty of ideas out there, but they too are nothing more than theories.

There is actually very little in the universe that has been proven. Most universal laws are not that at all, just pretty logical theories until they are disproven and another theory takes its place.

I fully support your rights too.

“I am physically attracted to other men.”

Or maybe you just didn’t bond with your dad and sexualized your need for male approval. Many say that can be clinically proven too.

“At the same time I am not trans. I can’t expect to understand it.”

Really?

“A man is absolutely not a woman.”

Good thing that transwomen aren’t men, then. A man absolutely can’t love another man, only work out sexualized needs for paternal affection or the trauma of childhood sexual abuse with him.

At the same time, I’m not a gay man so I can’t expect to understand it.

Now if anyone’s interested in what’s actually been discovered, instead of just spouting off knee-jerk opinions, take a look at this:

http://aebrain.blogspot.com/20.....on-by.html

There are several others studies showing evidence of cross-gendered brain wiring in the transgendered. It’s real. It’s biology. Get over it.

———————————

anywho, i know a man who transitioned to become a woman, then married a lesbian. that’s really what awakened me to the difference between gender and sexuality. not gonna say i understand it 100%, but am trying.

In fact, can you provide a single compelling reason to believe that this “conjecture” of yours is true?

Sounds like a theory. How would I go about testing it? Is it falsifiable? Is it an angle?

SO TRUE.

I know that being a guy who likes guys doesn’t (and shouldn’t?) automatically make a person totally sensitive and educated, but it still peeves me every time a gay guy who’s suffered discrimination based on his not living up to hetero norms (which are really just a type of gender norm, in a way) turns around and says that trans people are weird or creepy.

I’m not saying that gays and trans people are the same, just that we get the same kind of shit from the same kind of people. I’m gay and trans, so I’m rolling my eyes wherever I am.

One of my great frustrations with this movement is how quick we are to point out when individuals and groups make us into “others”… but so many of us seem to have no problem doing the same thing (see: horribly misinformed comments about trans people above).

I don’t have the time or patience to give this issue justice, but I would like to point out that a large part of homophobia is caused by the perceived subversion of traditional gender norms. Gender identity and sexual orientation, though obviously distinct qualities, do have some relation. Especially in the arguments that cranky bigots use against both.

Finally, I would proffer that taking the attitude of “I just want my rights. I don’t care about anyone else’s” is ridiculously selfish and harmful and does a great deal of damage to the cause of equality. I hate to bust out a cliched quote, but I will anyway: “Nobody’s free until everybody’s free.”

Plus, hating on trans people makes you seem like a giant douche.

It takes straight people a leap of faith when they first try an accept us. I’ve always felt that I owed that to trans people.

Windyloo’s comments (number 29) say it most eloquently.

Is it really that simple?

http://tinyurl.com/moglfw

That’s all we ask of straight people. Live and let live.

If, I’m in an incredibly analytical mood and have nothing to do whatsoever and actually think about the gender-identity issue, yeah, I’ll admit I can never understand why someone would want to do that, etc. But, for me, I don’t think of that, I read that Chastiy will become Chaz, say to myself, “oh shit” and moved on.

I’ll admit, I did think, couldn’t Chaz work on his body and look like Zac Efron or something. But, I realized that was unbecoming of me and very superficial and moved on.