This debate is probably over, and no one is reading it anymore, but I just read through it, and I had a question.

I don’t want to offend anyone. I’m just curious.

I know that many gays are interested in securing the right to marriage because legal marriages confer many rights on couples (tax benefits, next-of-kin, insurance benefits etc).

But can’t gays get all of these same benefits through different methods, such as by writing a living will, or by selecting certain insurance companies over others?

I’m not trying to imply anything about the necessity of gay marriage. I’m just curious, because one of my gay friends–who incidentally voted Yes on prop eight–told me that.

I also wanted to agree with whoever said up there that this isn’t necessarily a question of christians vs. gays. Some of my friends who are gay and who voted No to prop eight are also very religious. Similarly, I’m a Christian, but I don’t believe that gays are like what thumper described them as.

Yes, this is picking and choosing what I want to believe from the Bible. (I believe someone said, “If you’re going to believe in the Bible, you’d better believe in it all). The thing is, I see the Bible not only as a religious work, but also as a historical, cultural, sociological and philosophical doctrine that was written over the course of several thousand years by a variety of different authors (the fact that the Bible is divided into different books by different people illustrates that). God didn’t author the Bible; ordinary people who had heard God’s Word did. Taking into account the capacity for human error, as well as the age of the Bible itself, the number of times its been translated out of the original Greek and Hebrew into Latin, King James English, contemporary English etc…I think it’s alright to pick and choose what I want to believe from the Bible.

That’s why I believe in treating my neighbor the way I want to be treated, while at the same time believing that gays are not innately evil or misguided. (Originally, the Old Testament forbade gay behavior for the same reason that it forbade tattooing and shaving–because other societies amongst who the Jews were living–the Romans, Greeks, Egyptians, etc–did these things, and the Jews wanted to retain their own, original culture and identity; they did not want to be subsumed).

“Have you considered that it’s hypocritical and cowardly to harass only those whom you don’t perceive as a threat to your physical well-being?

Racist? No, just realistic.”

Yeah…

Who is suggesting that we LGBT folks perceive (or should) Blacks or Latinos as a threat to our physical well-being? And why?

Um, no. We’re *reacting* to those who *are* a threat to our well-beings, physical and otherwise. I’ve only heard the O’Reillys of this world saying we should go be stirring up shit in south Central. Because the O’Reillys (and Brents and boutroses) of this world are RACIST. Simple.

Have you considered that it’s hypocritical and cowardly to harass only those whom you don’t perceive as a threat to your physical well-being?

Racist? No, just realistic.

Had you ever considered the fact that telling the meek gay people they’re too weak to pick on the big burly black people isn’t only homophobic, but kinda…racist?

“We” aren’t doing anything.

Most of Queerty’s readers are having logical conversations while you are posting the same race-baiting nonsense as last week.

Btw, your “polite” + “docile” Yes on 8 supporters have had no problem lashing back verbally (+/or physically), going so far as to bloody the noses of some No on 8 protesters.

Get lost.

There are TENS of MILLIONS of gays in America who are angry that the religious folk and uneducated conservatives who are trying to dictate how all walks of life should define, view, and live their lives…especially with marriage. The use of scare tactics, forming false opinions based on fears not facts, thus swaying those who aren’t lucky enough to be properly educated to shun a minority in fear is wrong, and is exactly what has been happening towards us gays. It is our right, as well as yours, to speak up and make aware what it is that these false claims have caused wrongful assumptions. It has added new and unnecessary challenges for all of us, not just gays. It is very apparent that there is no “standard” or “traditional” marriage. Look up the History of Marriage. You will see that marriage was never originally a “religious” institution. Even with the religious views on marriage, allowing gays to marry isn’t going to change anything for the religions. Well, maybe make people of their faith question the teachings of those individual churches doctrines. We aren’t trying to take away what religions teach or practice with their followers. We are simply wanting to have the religious folk to STAY OUT OF OUR BUSINESS since we don’t GET INTO YOURS! Should be simple enough, but you all can’t seem to stop trying to control other peoples lives. Thats sad especially when you can’t control your own lives.

“So much for ignoring me.”

Well, the plan was to ignore trolls. Then, you seemed to be trying to make some actual sense (though, I still disagreed strongly with you) + as a result, I decided to respond to some of your posts as I felt you weren’t the typical troll.

Having read some of your more recent posts, however, I’m not so sure I made the right choice in engaging you.

Your church will not be forced to marry gay people….nor will it have an effect on your ability to spew bigoted lies.

Weddings happen in Churches…NOT marriages. You go to city hall or a JP to get married.

If you are going to throw around slippery slope scientific references you MUST offer a citation.

It’s funny/sad how you can’t equate basic freedoms and the rights of the minority. You have cognitive dissonance in SPADES!

You guys don’t really seem to understand what I’m saying, and you’re not addressing my points. Instead you’ve resorted to personal insults and irrelevant talking points. This has become a waste of my time.

Yes, really.

I’m far from ignorant, pumpkin. I’m just not a fan of your particular brand of bullshit. The fight for gay marriage rights is not about your kids. It’s about ours. And our demanding the life, liberty, + pursuit of happiness that makes this nation great.

Btw, I thought you said you were leaving…

I think that is a bold assumption to make that this particular bigot is capable of finding himself someone to marry. So I don’t think he can answer that question since he probably isn’t married.

NO ONE WAS FORCED TO GO!

You seem to be trying to influence how other people teach their kids, while screaming that we are trying to brainwash yours?

Keep throwing those red herrings out there and we, the educated people on the right side of history, will keep swatting them down!

You still havent answered my questions about how my marraige would have any effect of yours.

Oh, REALLY? Did anyone think that when the APA declassified homosexuality (under intense political pressure from gay radicals) as a mental disorder in the ’70s that in 2008 public school children in 1st grade would be taken on a field trip to a gay wedding?

Fredo, don’t be ignorant. Your masters in the gay mafia are counting on you to be ignorant. Educate yourself.

Master ‘bater, indeed.

Wonder how many times he’s checked out Morning Goods since he popped up here.

You are a joke in my eyes. Someone who is just here to cause people with an actual focus and drive to make a difference in our society to get out there and take a stand. So for that, I thank you for your narrow and delusional point of view. Oh ya, God bless you! :)

well played you master debater….!

You know the bible also says it’s a sin to eat shell fish and it is also a sin to wear clothing that mixes different fibers? Do you teach them that also?

It’s lovely that you want to base your life on principles set by a nomadic tribe that acknowledged the existence of more than one god 2000 years ago. Please don’t expect other to live under the same laws.

Please tell me how my marriage to the one I love has any bearing or effect on your relationship or marriage?

Seems part of respecting other people is also knowing when to keep your nose out of their PERSONAL busniess.

But ultimately, I’m afraid you are right. Eventually there will be another vote of the people, and the kids you have been brainwashing will be of voting age, and you will win. No doubt. BUT, it will take another constitutional amendment to do it.

Also, when your kids back-sass you, it is only appropriate that you take them out into town + let the townspeople stone them to death.

I think I might have read that somewhere. Not sure where, though…

If you are going to follow the bible then you better be following the whole thing not just picking and choosing passages that support your bigotry.

Don’t worry, they’re 8 and 9 and know all about gay people. I stress compassion and respect but also teach them what the Bible says about the behaviors gays engage in.

And although I appreciate your comment, I’d rather you didn’t teach my kids anything. Try and see this from where I’m standing. Rememeber, we’re talking about my kids now, not gay marriage. You engage in a practice that the Bible says is harmful. The Bible also says exactly what will happen to people who continue down this path:

“Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents, they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.” Romans 1:26-32

So you can see why I don’t trust you with my kids. I understand that you probably don’t believe in the Bible, but freedom of religion is in the constitution and you have to respect my right to my beliefs. I don’t go around forcing God or religion on anyone, but I am entitled to state that I believe homosexuality is wrong. Gay marriage is a huge step toward eliminating the freedom of religion and the freedom of speech. Someone earlier mentioned the “myth” of the slippery slope. He’s lying. It’s very real, and we know you guys – or the radicals driving you guys are counting on it because your ultimate agenda is to have a society where it’s illegal to BELIEVE that homosexuality is wrong. That’s why you’re trying to get to our kids through the schools (SB 777), that’s why you try to silence any viewpoint that isn’t exactly what you want it to be.

Womp womp womp.

The very type of constitution change by public vote that we are discussing is not so cut-and-dry, which is why the Court is hearing arguments from opposition in the first place.

Those precedents very much apply. Minority, majority, not a democracy, + so forth…

We’ll see where this goes, but I wouldn’t expect gay marriage to be off the table in CA for long.

Great! Now that the constitution clearly defines marriage this should be done quickly and easily. None of the precedents (inter-racial marriage, women voting…) you use to make your arguement apply.

That was such a pathetic jumble of the same, tired right-wing anti-gay talking points.

The voters at one time DEFINED marriage as two persons of the same race + that women shouldn’t have the right to vote. That didn’t last forever, + neither will this.

Anyone with half a brain wouldn’t still be using that lame-ass “slippery slope” or “God, think of the poor children” distraction which your ilk seems to cling to so desperately. Btw, ninny, there were many people who voted No on 8. Try nearly 6 million of them, since we only lost by about 4 percentage points (around a measly half-million votes out of over 12 million total votes cast).

It’s coming, “Sven”, + you know it.