Queerty is better as a member

Log in | Register
UNNECESSARY ROUGHNESS

College Football Player Kicked Off Team After Kissing His Boyfriend

Just when we thought the football arena was becoming one big lovefest for the LGBT community, here comes a story  to burst our bubble: An 18-year-old in North Dakota was kicked off his college football team after coming out as gay during a game.

Over Labor Day weekend Jamie Kuntz, a student at North Dakota State College of Science, was attending an away game at Snow College in Pueblo, Colorado. Still suffering from a concussion, Kuntz was on the injured list, but was asked to film the game for his teammates. Kuntz’s boyfriend, who lives in Denver, drove to Pueblo for the match and sat with him in the empty press box.

Young, horny and bored, Kuntz impetuously kissed his boyfriend as his teammates got slaughtered on the field.

But apparently not all eyes were on the field: Kuntz’s coach, Chuck Parsons, pulled him off the bus and confronted him. At first Kuntz denied being gay and kissing anyone. On the ride home, Kuntz apparently tweeted some messages that made some teammates concerned he might attempt suicide and the police were called. Once they determined he wasn’t suicidal, Kuntz sent Parsons a message admitting he was gay and had kissed his boyfriend in the press box. He also apologized for lying.

The next day Parsons called him into his office and told him he was off the team: “He said he didn’t care what people did in their personal lives but it was a big mistake to do that on a football trip,” said Kuntz. “I said, yeah, I made a big mistake and I apologized again for lying. Then he handed me a letter and said he was kicking me off the team because what I did was ‘detrimental’ to the team and I was a ‘distraction.’”

Kuntz shared the  letter with Dan Savage, who posted it on the Stranger blog:

“The head coach reserves the right to dismiss any team member for any conduct that is deemed detrimental to the team. This includes, but is not limited to, any criminal charges or convictions; violations of school policies, NDSCS athletic policies, or NDSCS Wildcat Football policies… Lying to Coaches, Teachers, or other school staff [constitute a violation].”

“This decision was arrived at solely on the basis of your conduct during the football game… and because you choose not to be truthful with when I confronted you about whom else was in the box with you.”

It’s possible Parsons is just a hard-ass and would’ve come down on any player caught breaking the rules. But, as Kuntz tells  Savage, other teammates have been caught drinking and going into 21-and-over clubs. Others have criminal charges and convictions, both misdemeanors and felonies, and have remained active players.

Sounds like a double standard to us.

But there may have been another factor in Kuntz’s punishment: His boyfriend is 65-years-old.

“When my coach pulled me off the bus that night and asked me who that was with me in the press box,” Kuntz says, “I said, ‘Oh, that was my grandpa up there with me. I wasn’t kissing my grandpa, I don’t know what you’re talking about.’”

Kuntz says that he has always been attracted to older men. Kuntz was 18 when he met his boyfriend online and Kuntz says he was the aggressor.

“I definitely pursued him,” says Kuntz. “He’s a great guy. I love him.”

For now Kuntz has dropped out of NDSCS and is living at home and weighing his options.

By:           Dan Avery
On:           Sep 11, 2012
Tagged: , ,
  • 62 Comments
    • Dakotahgeo
      Dakotahgeo

      I sincerely hope that Mr. Kuntz sues the shit out of the Coach and the school. This is purely Victorian small-town North Dakota hate in practice and needs to stop immediately. Get a good lawyer, Mr. Kuntz, and best wishes from a former North Dakotan (for obvius reasons!).

      Sep 11, 2012 at 11:39 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • hf2hvit
      hf2hvit

      Bet the coach loves out of town games…probably LOOOOOOOOOOOOOVES those airport restrooms

      Sep 11, 2012 at 11:45 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ester Goldberg
      Ester Goldberg

      Can’t people kiss their BF’s without being horny?

      Sep 11, 2012 at 11:46 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      “”
      “This decision was arrived at solely on the basis of your conduct during the football game… and because you choose not to be truthful with when I confronted you about whom else was in the box with you.””
      ________________

      Really? The Lying? Funny, but I seriously doubt that the coach would have yanked him off the buss and come at him agressively if he had been seen kissing his girlfriend.

      Sep 11, 2012 at 11:52 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • IzzyLuna
      IzzyLuna

      Well, first off…he’s a gold-digger. But, hey…to each his own. It’s one thing to be a hooker in your personal life, but kissing a geezer in public when you’re not out yet: plain stupid.

      I’m sure he’ll do anything to make the human ATM machine not angry at him so I’m sure he was conflicted: out myself? or not have my allowance anymore? Tough decision.

      Sep 11, 2012 at 12:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MacTX
      MacTX

      It sucks and sounds like there’s a double standard there but the coach was within his right to kick him off the team. He would have more of a case if he didn’t lie about it initially. You can say whatever you like about the coach but if lying is one of the program’s code of conducts, it’s all the excuse the coach needed (homophobe or not).

      Sep 11, 2012 at 12:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • mlbumiller
      mlbumiller

      How about a little letter writing to the Office Manager, Vice Pres and the coach? Reading some of the other actions of the team and they were not kicked off the team is more than unfair. The coach needs to reinstate Mr. Kuntz or he needs to kick-off all of the players that have violatoins.
      here is their information:

      Kim Dassenko
      Academic & Student Affairs Office – Office Manager
      kim.dassenko@ndscs.edu
      701-671-2416

      Harvey Link
      Academic & Student Affairs Office – VP
      harvey.link@ndscs.edu
      701-671-2112

      Philip Parnell
      Academic & Student Affairs Office – Associate Vice President
      philip.parnell@ndscs.edu
      701-671-2669

      Head Coach / Defensive Coordinator, Chuck Parsons
      Phone: 701-671-2447
      E-mail: charles.parsons@ndscs.edu

      Sep 11, 2012 at 12:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tdx3fan
      tdx3fan

      @IzzyLuna: You need to get over yourself. Sometimes an older man and a younger man actually do have STRONG feelings for each other. Just because you can not get any does not mean you need to criticize other people’s relationships.

      Sep 11, 2012 at 12:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • mlbumiller
      mlbumiller

      All calls are being transferred to:

      Barbara Spaeth-Baum
      College Relations & Marketing – Executive Director
      barbara.baum@ndscs.edu
      701-671-2483

      Her comments to Dan Savage of the SLOG

      Coach Parsons didn’t respond to numerous messages asking for his side of the story. And Barbara Spaeth-Baum, Director of College Relations and Marketing for North Dakota State College of Science, told me the school couldn’t comment. “The student that you are calling me about is no longer a student at NDSCS,” said Spaeth-Baum, “so we are not allowed to comment about anything regarding that person because that person is not a student of ours any longer. There’s almost nothing we can say.”

      When I asked Spaeth-Baum to comment on current students—members of the football team who may have violated school policies without getting kicked off the team—Spaeth-Baum cut our conversation short. “That’s hearsay and that’s not admissible evidence in any court of law,” said Spaeth-Baum. “I don’t know anything regarding the student that you’re quoting. I can’t speak to that. I certainly don’t know that.”

      Sep 11, 2012 at 12:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • mattsy
      mattsy

      First of all I cant that his last name is KUNTZ.
      Second of all, an 18 yr old dating a 65 yrs old?
      Thats a 50 year age difference.
      Im against it all in this article.

      Sep 11, 2012 at 12:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      @MacTX: said…


      It sucks and sounds like there’s a double standard there but the coach was within his right to kick him off the team. He would have more of a case if he didn’t lie about it initially. You can say whatever you like about the coach but if lying is one of the program’s code of conducts, it’s all the excuse the coach needed (homophobe or not).”
      ______________

      The lying can be negated by the approach the coach used. If he said with a smile. “Hey, was that your girlfriend I saw you kissing up there?” That is one thing, if he drags him off the bus and screams at him what the hell were you doing!!!!! It is a completely different situation legally.

      Sep 11, 2012 at 12:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MacTX
      MacTX

      @Cam:
      Good luck with that in a court of law. The coach confronted him and he lied. He violated a policy and was all the excuse needed to kick him off the team. The approach the coach used will be a matter of he said/he said since we weren’t there and I doubt the incident was recorded on video. Mr. Kuntz still doesn’t have much of a case. Going after the double standard (to get the other students kicked off the team as well who violated school/team policy) would be easier than trying to argue the coach was homophobic and kicked him off the team for that sole reason.

      Sep 11, 2012 at 1:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The Real Mike in Asheville
      The Real Mike in Asheville

      @mattsy: Well, fortunately for the rest of us, your opinion about the private mutual conduct between consenting adults means ZERO. I’m against interferers who are against the freedom to choose one’s own happiness [so long as that happiness does not deny happiness to others].

      Sep 11, 2012 at 1:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The Real Mike in Asheville
      The Real Mike in Asheville

      @IzzyLuna: You’re an idiot: the kid is surrounded by homophobia plagued ND while his chosen boyfriend lives in cosmopolitan Denver. If he were simply the money grabber you accuse him to be, well, there are plenty of well to-do men in the 30-50 age range who would happily jump all over a hunky 19 year-old, and rescue him from the homophobes surrounding him.

      And who the fuck are you to judge that this kid is doing anything other than exploring his life, his desires — simply finding for himself who he is?

      Sep 11, 2012 at 1:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tidalpool
      tidalpool

      I always try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. since the schools standard operating proceedures specifically mention lying and ‘being detrimental’ to the team this young man’s actions included both.
      The young man’s lack of maturity was shown by inviting his B/F into the press box, kissing him while his team was on the field, and then lying to the coach about the event. He was also not doing the task he was assigned.
      The arguments others had be charged with drinking, and assorted violations is a specious argument. None of them are quoted as having confessed, or been found quilty, ergo their status is still in question.
      As a gay man, when we are held to different standards, and or disciplined for our orientation, we need to always fight for whats right. When we join a group with rules, its a bit hard to claim its orientation discrimination when you break them. Life is not always easy, but we can prevent unwarranted actions agains us and ours. This kid needs to follow the rules, tell the truth, and own up to his actions.

      Sep 11, 2012 at 1:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Niall
      Niall

      @Ester Goldberg: Exactly, I found that part very stupid myself and an unnecessary addition.

      Sep 11, 2012 at 2:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • John
      John

      First off, as he himself said, HE approached the older man. Does that make him a gold-digger? Not hardly. Reality: Some younger guys are attracted to older men, hard-wired that way, (and visa versa). So how about you keep YOUR problem with it to yourself? It’s YOUR problem. It’s vulgarly ironic that a gay person should try to tell someone else what is or is not acceptable in bed or a relationship, so long as it is between two consenting persons.

      The lie becomes irrelevant, because it’s a foregone conclusion that if he had been kissing a teenage girl in that booth, nobody would have said anything OR asked anything. Just like the invalid claim of the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason, the school has neither right nor authority to punish him for society’s issues. “Detrimental” could be anything they don’t like. Alternatively, this article COULD have had positive results for the school, if they weren’t being homophobic. In that light, what the COACH did was “detrimental.”

      Tidalpool, you’re missing an oar. We are not obligated to follow any such rules when they are not justly applied to us. The US Supreme Court has ruled that a law which contradicts the Constitution is null and void. Same thing.

      Mostly, I’m very bothered that any gay person would be attacking this young man instead of supporting him. Fruit of a poisoned tree proves out that he had no crime because he wouldn’t have lied if the coach hadn’t asked him a question that he had no business asking. Those of you who think he was wrong to kiss his BF need to take a long honest look inside and recognize your own issues with your orientation. Neither of these two has anything to apologize for.

      Sep 11, 2012 at 3:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dakotahgeo
      Dakotahgeo

      @IzzyLuna: You arrogant ass! I happen to be a 62 year old male with the most wonderful 38 yr old partner in the world. gold digger? Not on your life. You should be so lucky as to find someone who would love a frog like you! Ignorant fool!

      Sep 11, 2012 at 3:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • John
      John

      @mattsy: You’re a rather pathetic excuse for a homo sapiens, you know that? You mock his name, you have issue with the age… If you don’t want to date an older man, then don’t. But you’ve got NO right having an opinion on it since it’s not you in the relationship.

      Sep 11, 2012 at 3:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DuMaurier
      DuMaurier

      Although I admit the righteous indignation I felt on seeing the headline cooled off a bit after reading the specific facts in the article, there still is a valid question that hasn’t been satisfactorily answered: Did the player get kicked off the team because the incident involved another guy, or would a heterosexual have been treated the same way under similar circumstances? I’m willing to say I don’t know the answer to that, but it would make things simpler if the coach would stop stonewalling and just address the issue openly.

      Sep 11, 2012 at 4:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MacTX
      MacTX

      @John:

      Right or wrong, if he was bound by the team’s code of conduct and if that included not lying to staff/coaches, his lying, is grounds for dismissal. It’s a weak cope out by the coach but he has that right and authority. If he just didn’t lie when confronted, the coach couldn’t have dismissed him on that cause.

      @DuMaurier:

      Truthfully, we can’t be sure as only the coach can answer that question and he’s apparently running silent. The available evidence would suggest homophobia but we also don’t have all the evidence either.

      Sep 11, 2012 at 4:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jerry12
      Jerry12

      The Coach had no business questioning the boy about his kissing the man in the first place.
      There is only one conclusion to be had – The Coach is Homophobic and it did not matter how the kid answered, he would still have been off the team; BUT NOT FOR LYING! However, it is a good lesson for the kid – “DO not lie” You would still have been kicked off, but then you would have been able to complain loud and clear about his Homophobia.

      Sep 11, 2012 at 4:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • John
      John

      @MacTX: We can’t be sure? Please. Are you truly that naive?

      Sep 11, 2012 at 6:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MacTX
      MacTX

      @John:

      I try not to judge before I hear ALL the facts. Obviously you do. You want to be treated fairly yet you won’t treat someone else fairly. There’s a word for that. Hypocrite.

      Sep 11, 2012 at 7:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • D9W
      D9W

      I wonder if this would have happen if he was kissing some old lady and he lied about that? Ever hear of a female cougar kissing a young man before? Also I wonder if this issue has come up before as in the coach asking someone on the team about kissing of the opposite sex and the young man not feeling comfortable with the question lied about it and did not get kicked off the team when it was found out they lied about it? I bet there is a double standard going on here.

      Sep 11, 2012 at 8:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • John
      John

      @MacTX: LOL! Now you’re redefining words, eh? What universe do you live in, that you really think that the coach would have said ANYTHING to him if he had been kissing a girl?

      Sep 11, 2012 at 8:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • D9W
      D9W

      I just had the thought about the Coach- I wonder if the Coach has ever lied? I wonder if the policy includes the Coaches and his actions?

      Sep 11, 2012 at 8:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MacTX
      MacTX

      @John:

      How is it that I’m redefining words? Which words specifically are you referring to?

      I’m living in the real world, what about you? In the real world, Mr. Kuntz broke a policy and gave his coach all the ammunition he needed to dismiss him from the team. You may not agree with that decision and may argue discrimination but that’s not relevant until we hear Mr. Parson’s side of the story. You have to remember that the (gay bias) article is from the view point of Mr. Kuntz. You’re basically condemning and discriminating against him based on one side’s view point. Prejudice also fits here.

      “Tidalpool, you’re missing an oar. We are not obligated to follow any such rules when they are not justly applied to us. The US Supreme Court has ruled that a law which contradicts the Constitution is null and void. Same thing.”

      I thought that comment of yours was interesting. You really don’t live in the real world do you.

      I’m STILL waiting on the US Supreme Court to null and void the Patriot Act. I’m not holding my breathe on that one.

      Sep 11, 2012 at 9:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • John
      John

      @MacTX: Start with hypocrite. But you’re far more full of yourself than is appropriate overall. Pseudo-intellectuals like you really shouldn’t come out from under the porch while the big dogs are in the yard. It’s blatantly obvious that the coach would not have asked him who he was kissing if it wasn’t a man. So the question never should have been asked, therefore everything after it becomes irrelevant, fruit of the poisoned tree. And yes, that IS the law of this land, when one procures those rights for himself. The young man will be reinstated, or will get a handy settlement, if he chooses to pursue the matter. Despite people like you, we have now risen to the point that one cannot get away with such prejudice before an honest court. “… to null and void the Patriot Act”? Don’t give up the day job. Law doesn’t suit you. Ramble on all you like. I’ve wasted all the time I’m going to on you. If this explanation doesn’t help you, there’s virtually no hope you’ll grasp the concept.

      Sep 11, 2012 at 9:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dakotahgeo
      Dakotahgeo

      @John: MacTX has the wind against him just by being from TX! Obviously, he has been home-schooled or is self-taught. He will not understand simple kegal terms.

      Sep 11, 2012 at 9:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dakotahgeo
      Dakotahgeo

      @Dakotahgeo: legal*

      Sep 11, 2012 at 9:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Aries3dc
      Aries3dc

      @Dakotahgeo: 62/38 has no correlation to 65/18. Sorry, I just had to make that point. A man at 38 years deciding to have a partner in his 60s, is not exactly like a teenager of 18 deciding to have a partner in his 60s. Not even close.

      As articulate as Kuntz is at describing his love for his partner, and football, an all the rest…he still make the very unwise decision of making out with his 65-year-old BF while in a press box of a football game. Only an idiot would fail to realize the consequences of such an action.

      Sep 11, 2012 at 9:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MacTX
      MacTX

      @John:

      Hypocrite: A person who pretends to be what he is not. (I hope that helps)

      Like I said to another comment, good luck in court on that one. Mr. Kuntz is pretty much on the losing side of an uphill battle on this one. The burden of proof is on Mr. Kuntz to prove he didn’t violate team policy (when he himself has already admitted to the offense). I hope you didn’t forget that the only reason for him to be at that game was to support the team.

      You really live in a fair tale world. In case you weren’t aware, your constitutionally guaranteed right to a speedy and public trial as well as protection from unlawful search and seizure got axed when the Patriot Act became law just to name a few. All in the name of fighting terrorism. It’s an interesting read. You might actually learn something.

      Sep 11, 2012 at 9:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MacTX
      MacTX

      @Dakotahgeo:

      And what legal terms would that be?

      Sep 11, 2012 at 9:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MacTX
      MacTX

      @John:

      correction:

      that should have been unreasonable search and seizure instead of unlawful.

      Sep 11, 2012 at 9:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • D9W
      D9W

      @Mac – Don’t forget that lying is protected free speech- If memory serves me right our current Men(and women)in Black Supremes Robes has stated that Lying is OK when they turned down the law that said TV stations/cable/fox news had to give air time to the opposite view point. So as it has been said before- this kid may have a right to lie which goes against the schools double standard.

      Sep 11, 2012 at 10:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MacTX
      MacTX

      @D9W:

      Are you sure you don’t have the fairness doctrine case of 1969 confused with the supreme court ruling that the stolen valor act of 2005 as invalid in June 2012? I guess you only read the sensationalized headlines. Neither of those implicitly make lying protected speech. The 1969 ruling let the opposition have airtime to respond to their critics and the June ruling struck down a law introduced to criminalized those that lied about receiving military medals. you do realize that neither of them are applicable to Mr. Kuntz case right?

      Sep 11, 2012 at 10:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jwrappaport
      jwrappaport

      @D9W: Enter the armchair justices. Lying is sometimes protected, sometimes not. Depends what you’re lying about and to whom. Lying to police about an imminent aircraft hijacking is almost certainly not within the ambit of the First Amendment, whereas lying on Grindr about your weight probably is fine.

      I don’t see this as a constitutional issue, rather as one relating to school rules: Is discrimination by the school on the basis on sexual orientation prohibited? If so, Kuntz should try to prove that the coach’s paper-thin argument is exactly what it sounds like: nonsense. It might be an uphill battle given that his coach likely has wide discretion to manage the team, but publicly shaming the coach is a start. The court of public opinion is now in session…

      Sep 12, 2012 at 12:16 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      @MacTX: said…

      “Good luck with that in a court of law. The coach confronted him and he lied”

      ___________________

      No actually the story already says he was yanked off the bus, the court would examine whether that would have happened if there was a woman involved. Lying under threat is often excused.

      Additionally, the court will examine the reasonableness of the punishment v. the policy.

      Sep 12, 2012 at 6:27 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Eric Auerbach
      Eric Auerbach

      Did people not know this kid is gay? He’s got a major case of the gayface.

      Sep 12, 2012 at 6:51 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MacTX
      MacTX

      @Cam:

      Actually the article said “pulled him off the bus and confronted him” by the article writer and “pulled me off the bus that night and asked me” by Mr. Kuntz. No threat was implied or alleged. You’re alleging he was under threat or duress when there’s no current evidence to support that assertion. If this case was to go to court, you have to remember that evidence is what the jury will hear and thus far there is not enough evidence to support that Mr. Kuntz was dismissed because of his homosexuality. On the contrary, the current evidence is not in his favor. It may seem apparent to you and some of the others, but public opinion and law don’t always go hand in hand. If Mr. Kuntz was bound by the team policy/code of conduct, the coach has all the reason necessary for the punishment.

      Like I’ve said before, he would have a better chance of arguing the equal distribution of enforcement since he alleges that other team members have violated policy and those incidents were overlooked by the coach/staff. The criminal charges and convictions would be the easiest but the other allegations would be nearly impossible to prove. The staff/coaches could deny such knowledge and I’m not aware of any law that required the staff to run criminal background checks on athletics prior to joining the team. That probably won’t get him back on the team but my get other team members kicked off if he and his lawyer could prove it in court. That’s assuming that a court would hear such a low priority case.

      Sep 12, 2012 at 7:18 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      @MacTX:

      So you are disputing me because I used Yanked rather than pulled?

      The fact is, he was “Pulled” off the bus and confronted in front of team mates. “Confronted”. Additionally, hiding your sexuality has been treated by courts as an acceptable subject on which to lie.

      The issue is, they will easily find multiple examples of every other player lying so it is a losing argument for the school to use.

      Sep 12, 2012 at 9:28 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dakotahgeo
      Dakotahgeo

      @hf2hvit: Most of the ND coaches and sports jocks are retarded in this antiquated state so you might want to draw your own conclusions. It’s been this way for years and years, but it’s getting better. Still, there are some recalcitrant people who refuse to let go of the centuries’ old habits.

      Sep 12, 2012 at 9:50 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dakotahgeo
      Dakotahgeo

      @Dakotahgeo: Please understand that I’ve lived withot Queerty for 68 yeas and I could care less about your “spam” or “jerk” ears. With or without Queerty, I’ll be just fine!

      Sep 12, 2012 at 9:55 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dakotahgeo
      Dakotahgeo

      @Dakotahgeo: ears = fears.

      Sep 12, 2012 at 9:59 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MacTX
      MacTX

      @Cam:

      You’re attempting to make it appear that the only reason he lied was under threat, which the available evidence doesn’t support. He’s 18, not out, and gets confronted about his sexuality. Based on what we know, a jury is more likely to agree that he lied from embarrassment rather than actual threat.

      If the coach wanted to confront him in front of his team, why pull him off the bus at all? Why not just do it on the bus right in front of everyone? You’ll have to enlighten me on that one as I’m not aware of a case(s) setting a precedence stating that lying about sexuality was acceptable. Don’t ask, don’t tell is the only one I could think of at the moment, which isn’t applicable to Mr. Kuntz case.

      Aside from criminal charges and convictions, it’s still a matter of hearsay unless someone confesses to it or has been recorded admitting to the lying. Mr. Kuntz has already gone on record admitting to his lying. Lets not forget that the wording of the policy is that the coach can exercise his right to dismiss but doesn’t say he has to dismiss. The decision is up to him. It’s not a perfect system by any stretch of the imagine but Mr. Kuntz agreed to be bound by that policy when he joined the team.

      Sep 12, 2012 at 10:02 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Nicole
      Nicole

      Support Jamie Kuntz https://www.facebook.com/groups/502798299748511/

      Sep 12, 2012 at 10:25 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • mlbumiller
      mlbumiller

      I just wonder if he had been Black, caught lying, kicked off the team what would be happening? The ACLU and the NAACP would be all over it

      Sep 12, 2012 at 12:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      @MacTX: said… ”
      @Cam:

      You’re attempting to make it appear that the only reason he lied was under threat, which the available evidence doesn’t support. He’s 18, not out, and gets confronted about his sexuality. Based on what we know, a jury is more likely to agree that he lied from embarrassment rather than actual threat.”
      ______________

      No, what I’m diong is saying that the “Lying” issue has been tossed out before because courts have often said it doesn’t hold water when it comes to issues about sexuality. The fact that him kissing somebody was enough to pull him off the bus could demostrate to a court right there that homosexuality was the issue. Would a reasonable juror feel that he would have been pulled off the bus if he had been kissing his college girlfriend.

      I am not deciding this case, I am pointing out what could happen. You seem wedded to the “Lying” clause, when those clauses have often been tossed out before.

      Sep 12, 2012 at 4:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MacTX
      MacTX

      @Cam:

      I’m still not following you on this case ruling implicitly dismissing or making lying justified when it deals with sexuality that you keep referencing. Could I get the specific case so I can read for myself?

      People are prejudice. The jury would be made of people from all walks of life (some of whom may be homophobic themselves) not just gay people. Mr. Parson had every right to question his activity as this was a school function. Please don’t try to deflect by arguing that it would be different if it was his college girlfriend (suggesting it was a girl his age). Mr. Kuntz making out with a 65yo women would raise just as many questions. He’s with the team on a school sponsored trip with a supporting role for the team. The only reason for him to be there (he’s on the injured list) was to capture footage and not to be making out with his BF. You’re only fixated on the gay aspect of his story and not the whole story. Any jury trial would include everything for the jury to decide.

      Sep 12, 2012 at 5:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • formerND
      formerND

      Call the President of the North Dakota State School of Science and tell them that it’s 2012 and this is BS! His name is John Richmond 701- 671-2222 Ask for Vivian.

      Sep 12, 2012 at 6:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Alton
      Alton

      Deplorable that any gay individual would take the school’s side in this. Of course the player lied. He lied because he’s gay, he lives in North Dakota, and his coach is a homophobic asshole. You’re going to hold him to the same standard you would any straight kid who was caught lying about kissing his girlfriend? Just because something is a rule, does not make it right, and sure as shit doesn’t mean it will be enforced even-handedly. Does anyone REALLY believe that if this was a straight kid caught kissing a girl and lying about it that he would have been tossed off the team?

      Anyone taking the school’s side in this disgusting incident is either a self-loathing asshole or an ignorant young punk who has been accepted for who he is all his life, and who knows nothing about having to hide who you are.

      Sep 15, 2012 at 9:44 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MacTX
      MacTX

      @Alton:

      If that message was directed in part or in whole at me:

      You need to fully comprehend the entire issue/situation before making a grandiose speech at that soap box. What we here believe in regards to the situation is irreverent; we’re not the individuals involved. False hope is to believe that the jury in that area will side with Mr. Kuntz if the people are as (allegedly) homophobic as Mr. Parsons.

      “Just because something is a rule, does not make it right, and sure as shit doesn’t mean it will be enforced even-handedly.”

      That’s one of the few intelligent thoughts I’ve read on the subject here.

      Sep 15, 2012 at 10:21 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dakotahgeo
      Dakotahgeo

      @MacTX: I believe the correct you are needing is “irrelevant,” but irreverent fits this whole sad situation regarding the North Dakota antiquated ideologies.

      Sep 15, 2012 at 10:57 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dakotahgeo
      Dakotahgeo

      @Dakotahgeo: the correct “word” was omitted.

      Sep 15, 2012 at 10:58 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MacTX
      MacTX

      @Dakotahgeo:

      uhm, thanks. nice to know the grammar police is always out there when one needs help after auto-correct fails them.

      Sep 15, 2012 at 11:10 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Alton
      Alton

      @MacTX: The message was directed at anyone who feels anything but disgust at the coach’s/school’s actions. As far as needing to “fully comprehend the entire issue/situation before making a grandiose speech at that soap box”…um, this it the INTERNET. That is what the internet is FOR.

      I am unfortunately not in a position to literally judge the issue, so I am not bound to consider equally all the factors in the story, especially as regards to the school’s policy on lying. However, if it WAS my responsibility to judge the matter, my ruling would be based on the answer to one question: “Would this kid have been removed from the team if he had been a straight boy kissing a woman and then lying about it?” As I am confident that the answer would be “no”, I have no problem getting on my soap box and calling out this school’s homophobic bullshit, as well as the bullshit of anyone trying to pretend there is any nuance to this case beyond standard Midwestern anti-gay bigotry.

      Sep 15, 2012 at 5:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dresden
      Dresden

      The fact the he lied about what he did makes all the difference in the world. The fact that he kissed his boyfriend made no difference, the fact that his boyfriend was much older than he made no difference… what they got him on was lying. He gave them that ammunition.

      Do I think that, if circumstances were different, there would have been a different outcome… of course. I understand why he lied… I probably would have lied too. But lying about the situation made it possible for them to do what they did.

      If he would have fessed up to what he did in the first place, then had been kicked out, he might have a case for discrimination. But, lets be honest, that sort of discrimination isn’t protected in most places… I’m hopeful that some day it will be, but right now, it’s not.

      It’s sad that we, as gay people, have to live our lives at a higher standard, including being more watchful of how we conduct ourselves, than your everyday normal straight person… but that’s just how it is. It won’t always be that way… I believe that one day we won’t be crucified for our little mistakes. Until then, we have to be wary of everything and anything that the haters can use to cut us down. It’s not easy and it won’t always be successful, but we just have to keep trying.

      …Dres

      Sep 15, 2012 at 7:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • D9W
      D9W

      I am suppressed that no one has quoted Queer as Folk’s Brian Kinney:

      It’s not lying if they make you lie. If the only truth they can accept is their own.

      Sep 16, 2012 at 2:54 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • D9W
      D9W

      I am surprised that no one has quoted Queer as Folk’s Brian Kinney:
      It’s not lying if they make you lie. If the only truth they can accept is their own.
      Sorry my auto-correct got away from me.

      Sep 16, 2012 at 2:55 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • IzzyLuna
      IzzyLuna

      @tdx3fan: I’m not criticizing the relationship at all. I have not one, but TWO boyfriends. I’m 40, they are 30 & 22.

      One of my films I wrote is about a sugar baby and his daddy, I’m just saying let’s call it what it is. This guy can say he loves the old dude, and that’s fine…but there’s “more” to it than that and many of us know it.

      Sep 16, 2012 at 12:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mjl-428
      Mjl-428

      @IzzyLuna: I kinda feel the same way about this as you.

      really to me, dating someone with a 10-30 year age difference isn’t really shocking to me. dating someone who may be old enough or the same age as your mom and dad will throw people off a bit, sure, but old enough to be your grandparent though?

      nearly 50+ years though is a different story because, and the rest of these gun jumpers, can be honest, how often do you hear of a successful relationship between people with a 50 year age gap, and only have love involved? if they really do have legitimate feelings for each other, then fine so be it, to each his own, etc.

      am I on the side of the coach for kicking him off of the team? hell no. since lying to the coach is a part of the rules and Kuntz doesn’t deny it, I think it would’ve been better if he got benched or something, a minor punishment and then got to play again at another upcoming game. right now, what the coach and faculty are doing for themselves by keeping silent on the issue, is making themselves look guilty as hell of discrimination.

      do I think he could’ve handled his little coming out process better than the shitstorm that occurred. yes.

      Sep 17, 2012 at 10:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

    Add your Comment

    Please log in to add your comment

    Need an account? Register It's free and easy.



  • QUEERTY DAILY

     


    POPULAR ON QUEERTY


    FROM AROUND THE WEB

    Copyright 2014 Queerty, Inc.
    Follow Queerty at Queerty.com, twitter.com/queerty and facebook.com/queerty.