Let's see how things go in Maine, Vermont, and possibly California first to see how whether the center really concurs.

he seems to have missed entirely the divisive and narrowly lost prop 8 battle.

@petted:

Don't forget: New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island, Illinois, and Iowa are following close behind.

Despite Prop 8, I agree with him. One of the telling moments of 2008 was when a woman was canvassing. She asked a voter whom she was voting for? The voter answered, "I am voting for the nigger, honey." On one level, as a black guy, it's deeply offensive. On the other, wow, so it's bad enough that they will not let their prejudice define their decision making. In America, for the last oh several hundred years- that does not happen. On the gay side, this is why I say push hard for the most we can get rather than settling. It's because the time is now to push. These periods only last for a few years, and then they go back to conservatism.

@The Gay Numbers:

LOL.

That was the real story of the election. I mean, Obama won Indiana. INDIANA! Indiana and Ohio are full of rednecks.

@Chitown Kev: Well, it was a surprise and not one. America has these periods like this of upheaval in which a lot of progress happens, and then it goes back to being redneck. For instance, the black civil rights movement had many ebbs and flows like this. Back in the 1930s (if I am remembering my history), there was this big effort for black civil rights advancement, but that got stumped out by World War 2 and the need for social conformity in the 40s and 50s. That's what I say fight for every last nickel you can get on the gay rights front because this window may close. Don't listen to the conserva-gays who are stupid of history to begin with, and most certainly aren't aware enough of it to make a cogent argument for what we should do with regards to rights. I mean- have you ever read Andrew Sullivan. That man is completey stupid when it comes to civil rights history. I read one of his post where he said that Americans were becoming more accepting of mixed race marriages, and that's why the court cases were able to happen. He argues that we should wait for the political process because he as a conservative (read idiot) thinks the political process is better. My view is simpler: do whatever the fuck it takes to get what you want and stop giving a shit about idealogy. If it's the political process. Fine. If it's the courts fine. Let everyone bitch after you suceed about how the saugage was made (no pun intended), but the first goal is to win.

@The Gay Numbers: Amen, hallelujah, co-sign.

@The Gay Numbers:

Yeah, the history is right. FDR had that amazing coalition of black voters and Southern Dems in 1940. FDR knew he was going to war, so he didn't de-segregate the Armed Forces in 1940.

Andrew Sullivan, I browse through every once in awhile because I have a social (but not economic) libertarian edge myself. But for the most part, he should disappear like his former Torie buddy William Hague.

@Chitown Kev: Well , there is no connection at all between social libertarianism and economic libertarianism is there? One grew out of Europe (social libertarianism) and the other out of American (economic). The later is akin, as I have read, to communism in that its central tenets are based on ideas that are impossble in nature to happen. Just like people are not completely social, it's impossible to construct an economy that's completely based on the individual since there will always be aggregate actions that contracts alone can never address. But, I digress.

@The Gay Numbers: Nicely put.

@The Gay Numbers: Well, I don't think I can improve on your fantastic observation except to agree. I'm a huge fan of social change history and everything you've written is true. It ebbs and flows like the tide.

The 1930s were a period of great social change that was immediately quashed by the 1950s. After the conservatism of the 1950s, we had another social change period in the 1960s, culminating in the mid-1970s. Then came Reaganism in the 1980s, but by the late 1980s society was changing again and we had modestly good results in the LGBT rights movement throughout the 1990s.

We now have our opportunity to push things forward in a big way and we shouldn't fall asleep at the wheel. Many of us have been waiting for this day to come.