“Big gay men have an added exclusion,” contends Jason Whitesel, author of Fat Gay Men: Girth, Mirth, and the Politics of Stigma. “There is the exclusion that all gay people experience; then there is within-group prejudice big gay men experience because of their size.”
Antigay activists labeled Whitesel’s recent presentation of his research at the University of California, Santa Barbara, as tantamount to a discussion on “how to sodomize overweight men.”
Queerty spoke with Whitesel about the protest and the persistent problem of fat-shaming within the gay community.
Queerty: Were you surprised to learn some people were spinning your recent UCSB presentation as a discussion on “how to sodomize overweight men”?
How about we take this to the next level?
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Jason Whitesel: I was indeed surprised that a UCSB student would use my book-talk as a platform to help him garner attention for his anti-LGBTQ beliefs. This individual spoke with a journalist from Campus Reform, a so-called “watchdog” organization for young conservative students. His assertion that I, as a queer scholar, teach others “how to sodomize,” is antigay hate speech, inflammatory and archaic. I am used to Internet trolls who attack me and especially the men I studied, in the comments section of articles featuring my work, but I must admit I was upset by neo-conservatives who glommed onto “sodomy” to denounce my talk as “morally questionable” in their eyes.
Despite those critics, how did the presentation go? Did you have any hecklers?
The presentation went off without a hitch. No hecklers, whatsoever. It has been my experience that those who make such homophobic comments usually do not attend these events, but make their remarks from the sidelines. Moreover, the students who attended were phenomenal; they were so engaged. We participated in such a vibrant Q&A that the event ran over the scheduled time.
What is the greatest struggle big gay men face today?
Big gay men constitute a multiply marginalized group, who feel stigmatized for their size and for their sexuality. Like women, gay men experience conflict with their appearance, physique and relationship to food more so than heterosexual men do. Since looks are one of the organizing features of the gay world, big gay men have an added exclusion. It is ironic that the worst injury inflicted upon gay big men is, in fact, coming from gay society.
Your book, Fat Gay Men, tackles this. What inspired you to write it?
As a gay man myself, and as a sociologist and professor of gender and sexuality studies, I have been disconcerted by body fascism in the gay community. When I conceived of the project, I was witnessing a gay scene full of fat-shaming and negative body talk. My initial idea was to see if I could find a group engaged in an alternative.
And that’s how you discovered Girth & Mirth, a social club specifically for big gay men. What was the most surprising thing you learned from meeting with them?
I was most surprised by the ordinariness of the group gatherings. There seemed to be nothing terribly revolutionary about the Girth & Mirthers. I thought I might have a failed project because everything the Girth & Mirthers did, like a potluck or a pool party, seemed so ordinary. I was worried that I was going to come away without much data worth writing about. Instead, what I learned over time was that what I had anticipated being a group of men protesting body fascism was actually simply a group trying to carve out an ordinary place for itself.
What else did you observe?
There is real joy in the group; there is mirth in Girth & Mirth. Its members are a positive, fun-loving bunch. More importantly, they resist the belief that they could be denied such fun because of their weight and size. Girth & Mirthers nurture one another’s joy in being fat and happy. Though they are constantly confronted with humiliation, they manage to sustain the integrity of their everyday lives, and they continue to look for creative responses to the stigma that comes with being fat and gay.
How do you respond to those who argue that there is no excuse for being fat and that fat people simply need to eat less and exercise more?
Big gay men are people too, and they deserve the same opportunity to get together and socialize. In fact, the need for a group like Girth & Mirth is, in part, related to the fact that people stigmatize them in those ways you mention. Typically, people reconfigure fat as a disease or deviance, such as when doctors medicalize it as “obesity” or when people say someone is “overweight,” meaning she or he has deviated from some ideal measurement. I guess I would say I have heard it all before, but still find myself getting agitated by people’s disparaging remarks about fat people or the pushback I have gotten from researching big gay men.
Lastly, why do you think fat-shaming and negative body talk persist? And what are the steps we can take to fixing the problem?
We presume the more physically fit someone is, the better a person one is. Frankly, I have no interest in parsing out “good” vs. “bad” fat people. A couch potato is a person just as worthy of respect, and the real question we are overlooking is: “Why do we hate fat people so much?”
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jayj150
There are many ‘fat’ gay men who will only date/have sex with other fat gay men. Is that body-fascism too?. And is it body-fascism when straight people(both men and women) state they are not sexually interested in fat people, or is it one of those things that everybody does but only gay men get demonized over?. What about short gay men?. I’d say they probably have it harder than fat men, so called chubby-chasers seem to abound in the gay community(more so than in the straight community, contrary to what this guy is trying to sell). This person comes across as yet another self-hating gay man desperately looking for reasons to demonize the community because of the behavior of a few; because apparently generalization are wrong…except when talking about gay men.
People like what they like; we must be respectful of everybody, yes, but no one should be shamed into being sexually attracted into anyone.
SashaVonAndris
“Its members are a positive, fun-
loving bunch. More importantly, they resist the
belief that they could be denied such fun because
of their weight and size. Girth & Mirthers nurture
one another’s joy in being fat and happy”
I was considered a skinny boy (154lbs after high school) until the age of 24. I always had big girl friends and whenever we went out, they always got the attention. So I decided I was going to gain weight and “find myself”. Boy was I wrong. It’s not the exterior that had them beating men off with 10 foot poles, it was their confidence, something I seriously lacked before and after my “experiment”. Be careful what you wish for at times.
There’s no game like a big boys game out here, fact. I won’t say that this book highlights a minority, because I’ve seen big men with “the quintessential body building gay”, or with a “twunk”, people you’d associate with being with each other. Just because you don’t see it, doesn’t mean it’s not there…
Aromaeus
Those same men will put no chocolate, no rice, and no spice or no fems in their dating profiles so excuse me for having little sympathy for them.
Glücklich
Body facism? There should have been a trigger warning because I feel microagressed.
martinbakman
In his book Going Down in LaLa Land, Andy Zeffer included minor characters that tended to make a hobby out of shaming other gay men. He portrayed them as unworthy sad people, the kind of guys we’d tire of easily.
As far as fat shaming goes, gay men are not alone in that practice. How often have we heard straight entertainers and bloggers go on about that guy’s weight.
martinbakman
^ @martinbakman: ^ omitted Chris Christie’s name
kurt_t
“as a sociologist and professor of gender and sexuality studies”
See, this is how your kids end up working at TGI Friday’s and living in your basement. They get to college, meet this guy and say “Why should I bust my ass studying science, mathematics and engineering when I can get a degree in makebelieve?”
dannysax
Everyone should be respected as people. The fact remains that most of those guys who are overweight have done it to themselves and I don’t feel a need to approve of their habits and behavior patterns that have got them there. If they want and like themselves as fat people, fine, but I will never be attracted to someone who is so out of shape. I don’t need to, because there are a preponderance of big bears and chub chasers who prefer that type of guy. When I occasionally visit a “bear bar,” I am usually avoided because I’m not a big and hairy guy.
kevininbuffalo
@kurt_t: He’s a walking stereotype who talks in cliches.
Glücklich
@kurt_t:
You forgot anything ending in “history”.
Sociology’s interesting but don’t major in it.
Glücklich
@Glücklich:
Oh wait lemme guess: now I’m guilty of “studies shaming.”
onthemark
These ridiculous diatribes always fit a template. The lazy conflation of “acceptance” – which out in Real Platonic World can mean anything from serious friendship, to having a little fun in a bar, to a productive working relationship in a volunteer group, etc. – with a manifesto that you must have SEX with Supposedly Oppressed Group X.
“when doctors medicalize it as “obesity”…” Gotta love those scare quotes. How DARE those doctors medicalize anything. Who the hell do they think they are, doctors?
@jayj150: Right, there are LOTS of chubby-chasers in gay life, and a very active social scene catering to them – long pre-dating the internet in fact. I guess there’s something for everyone, if only you look around a bit.
Markajv
While never being “Fat (Whatever that is) myself – From 18 on I was 5’11” I had a 34/36 waist and a 46/48 chest BUT I was never “Hot” “Good-looking” I was always called “Handsome” That doesn’t fly in the Gay community either. I had a horrible experience the 25 years I tried fitting in. I refused to take my shirt off in clubs because WHY??? I never , ever understood how “GaY Pride” equals riding on a float in a jockstrap with every guy who looks like he spent all day in the gym, Performing fake sex acts (Or in SF and NYC case ACTUAL sex in the street) Doing meth, or bumps. What kind of “Pride are you celebrating??” I never once looked at myself in the mirror and said “I am proud to be “Gay” because being “Gay” is my sexuality and why the hell do you need a parade to celebrate your sexuality? Stupid. All my relationships ended with me being cheated on – So just like MEN in General Straight or Gay they are just as piggish. So I have wiped my hand clean of the gay community until they get their heads out of the sand and stop this nonsense. “Gays” on TV were always portrayed at swishy, shirtless, queens…then I go to a pride parade and I’m like “Well this looks just like it does on the news” so why ya bitching??
AND stop the Martyr shit. You want to be treated EQUAL? expect to be made a joke of in a movie or on a tv show. EVERY other type of person is. Boycott Zoolander 2? What a fucking farce. You should boycott it because it’s a shitty movie.
I am a non -conformist, and that does not fly in the Gay community. Either you are with them and do whet they do, or your against them and called Bitter, and Jealous, and Jaded,,,,,Fuck that I live my life for ME and no one else.
dbmcvey
Why do so many people reduce this to “who you will date”? You can decline to go out with someone without shaming them. You don’t have to say everything that comes into your head.
onthemark
@Markajv: Oh come on, you’re not a “non-conformist” in Queerty Comment Land. Practically every comment thread has a snooty, bitchy comment that sounds like yours!
But okay, I’m sure all your failed relationships were the other guy’s fault.
Masc Pride
Fat gay men/bears/cubs can be just as obnoxious, judgmental and elitist as other gay men.
@dbmcvey: People also shouldn’t attempt to correct or shame others for who they don’t want to date. For some reason, the gay community bases the measure of a man by who he will (or won’t) f ck.
Markajv
P.S. All that time spent in the gym so you can be a narcissist in a club by taking off your clothes….you know what happens when you start to slow down and you miss a coupled day’s here and there, or you just can’t keep up with it anymore???……….FAT!!
Just the other day on this A-Holes Z.S.’s gay porn blog site they showed a porn star who is a little older than the 18 yr olds(Like having sex with a 12 yr old blech) You can tell he kept his body in shape, you should also tell his body was beefy to begin with, then they showed a picture of him like 5 yrs later and while he still had a muscular mod the midsection was a little bigger and people were calling him “Fat” – He was NOT at all fat. The Gay porn whores AND the STUDIOS! do it to each other on Twitter also. Calling each other names and body shaming one another. Disgusting. I had to quit Twitter when some douche called Ryan Rose sent me a death threat, which I reported. Then told a fan, who asked him if his parents knew he did porn. His answer was “Well, when you are one of the biggest gay male sex icons it’s hard to hide that” WHA WHA WHAT??? I mean, Is he? Cause I saw a picture of him and ….well I am not here to shame anyone.
Markajv
@onthemark: Fuck you asshole. You base you accusations on other comments. – My relationship WERE the other guys fault They were cheating on me, You think I did something to make them do that? You don’t even know me. Typical ! Fuck you dirtbag!
Dorin99
Am sorry, but I will not comply! I may not go around fat shaming other men, but am not in the slightest attracted to other men who are overweight, can not control their eating habits and do not give a shit enough about themselves to go to the gym and get their weight and diet under control!!! I was overweight, then I decided to do something about it!! I eat better, Do not drink much alcohol anymore and go to gym when eve I can. Am tired of hearing the pitiful excuses about why you are fat! Am not doing this for anyone but me. I really do not care what other people think. I decided to lose weight and get in shape because number 1. I care about myself! 2. being overweight causes many health problems, such as heart disease, Kidney failure, Thyroid failure, loss of libido and sex drive, lower levels of testosterone which in tun send you cholesterol though the roof and make you put on even more fat!! 3. Once you get older, you joints wear out from having to carry all that fat, you will destroy the cartilage in you hips and knees. Bottom line? It is not healthy and quit being a quitter and pathetically telling everyone how fat and happy you are!!!! Truth is you are using food to make up for some sot of lack of self confidence and self esteem and eating has not become a necessary means to survival and health, but it has become a crutch used as an escape to avoid dealing with problems! I have been there and done that! My advice to other gay men who are overweight?? Get some self respect and confidence and get into shape! Believe me, when you respect yourself and you body, both will repay you with many yeas of durable service long after your look of youth is gone! And the best part?? It is quit an ego boost to have other people, including young men and women (I am Bisexual) melt when near you and the look on their face when they hit the floor falling out of their chair when you tell them you are not 30, but 56 is priceless!!! For everything else, thee is Mastercard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Stached1
This is old news. I mean, someone is now just writing about gay men being this way about people who have body types they do not like. But there are fat gay men and they are called bears/chubs, etc.
onthemark
@Markajv: “You think I did something to make them do that?” No, I understand that you blame the ENTIRE gay male community for being pigs, in your opinion.
In your first comment you made clear that you think all gay men “cheat” (except you, of course, you’re the only saint?): “So I have wiped my hand clean of the gay community until they get their heads out of the sand and stop this nonsense.” I would say you’ll have a long wait, but actually you don’t need to wait. I’m pointing out to you that hey, practically every day in Queerty comments you see someone make the exact same whiny complaint you do. There are plenty of you saintly guys out there; you really should start a club and date EACH OTHER!
Markajv
@onthemark: Can you please quote me and how where I said “I blame the ENTIRE gay male community for being pigs” Take your opinion of my opinion and turn it into your opinion. Typical. Also show me where I said “all gay men “cheat” Never said any of that. YOU THINK I said that. Guilty conscience maybe?
I have NEVER cheated on anyone because 1) It’s disgusting thing to do to someone! 2)I would never purposely hurt someone like that. 3)I was head over heels for the the men in the several relationships and believe in communication as a good form to keep a relationship good. They obviously saw “A LOOK” and had a one nighter. I have seen so many people cheat as well as people in my family. My father cheated on my Mom after 30 yrs of marriage and since then he has made no attempt to see his children. NICE! BTW my Dad’s not gay….so there goes that thought process you think I have. Deflect at a mirror.
onthemark
@Markajv: And do you really think narciss1sm is the ONLY reason people go to gyms? Stamina, fitness, energy feel great. Sleeping soundly feels good also.
Manknee Aeizona
hagej02
These comments are disconcerting, but not a surprise. We expect people to live up to expectations, that for many, are just simply unattainable (remember, genetics play a big part in body fat, and not everyone that is overweight is sitting on the couch eating everything in sight, wallowing in self-pity). Why don’t we just for a few moments, consider adjusting our expectations…just a little, baby steps…and start looking at the person for what’s great about him, not whether or not he has love handles. Look around…lots of average straight guys have found love and success. Can’t average gay people be happy and find love?
bottom250
Honey I am won’t be apologetic for finding athletic men so sexy and healthy. mmmmmmmmmmmmmm
dbmcvey
@ Masc Pride, so because@Masc Pride: The fact that other people do it to is a really weak and childish excuse. The world doesn’t need to know how bitchy we are.
Dorin99
@onthemark: Thank you! Like I said, I do it for me! I like myself a lot more now and I feel much better about myself because of my stamina and endurance!
Dorin99
@hagej02: We are talking about obesity! That is different fom being lage!!! I know stocky well built guys who ae not thin and athletic, but they are not bult that way! They are not fat or obese. they are just large men. Now fo those who say it is genetic fo them to be fat? CRAPOLA!! You are NOT genetically inclined to be fat! Fat is a result of exceeding the feed limit. For people with thyroid problems, go to you doctor and get some help! You are tired and do not feel well because you are suffering a drop in hormone output and this can be corrected, with drugs (Easy to take and affordable) and natural herbs. We hit obesity rates at an all time high in 2015 and now America as a Nation is spending $300 MILLION a year in health care costs because of not controlling the feed limit and excersise , or lack thereof. http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/us-obesity-rate-hit-a-record-high-in-2015/ar-BBprffV?li=BBnb7Kz
Masc Pride
@dbmcvey: It wasn’t an excuse. I was pointing out the blatant hypocrisy. Bear/chub communities are commonly and shamelessly insulting to people under 300 lbs. There’s a lot of hypocritical outrage in this community, and I was simply pointing it out here.
If this community is bitchy, why can’t the world know about it? Thought we weren’t hiding anymore.
Dorin99
@Masc Pride: ?mîn! Thank you! I have met many bears who are just as you say! 300 pounds and trying to make other men feel less than men because they are not 300 pound chubby. They have a weight problem and know it, but instead of doing something about it, they project their lack of self confidence on others and its sad! I have always said, You want to loser weight? come with me to gym! Lets go roller blading! Don?t have kids of your own? Borrow the neighbors kids and go to the mall! If you can not lose several hundred calories chasing two boys, 6 and 10 years old at a shopping mall while being dragged around to see the rides, the toys, the shops, the clothes, and sights in general? Your doing it wrong!
bottom250
I am sorry sweethearts but I just find “fat” men very unattractive. Though I am very slim and tiny and many men might find that unattractive.
Dorin99
@Markajv: Have you thought about aving an open relationship? I mean, I would not want to be cheated on eithe, but is most often the lie that huts! We are guys and what do guys do best? We will jump almost anyone who will let us and nail you as hard as we can! In my experience, I have met many couples who seem to be happiest when open because there is not the having to hide to deal with! I will not be the man who anyone cheats on their partner with, but if relationship is open and all is understood, it usually works out well. I have met many friendly couples who have a partner attract to me who want to play and if relationship is open, have you boyfriend join us! Am good with that and no one get hurt.
Markajv
@onthemark: I think you just tried to make yourself my Therapist Lucy here’s a Nickel! . I do not backtrack. I say what I mean and feel by what I have experienced in my life. I have one regret and that was being suckered in by the LGBT community as one big brother/sisterhood when in essence it’s far from it. Gay men segregate themselves from Lesbians in almost every city I have been in. Gay bar, Lesbian bar, none shall pass! How is that helping any cause? That’s just 1 BIG example. I have several Male Gay Friends that feel exactly like I do and I have many Lesbian friends also that all comingle together. All my straight friends too. No one despises the other. No one would say Get out this is a Lesbian Bar! We do all kinds of things together. We call them NORMAL things. Now go body shame people!
Doug
Why is this being confined to gay men? Obesity has always been focused on in just about everyone, especially women. As gay men we have a very large bear community and their followers, which I think accepts overweight men much more than straight society does.
Dorin99
@bottom250: I find guys smaller than me very Attactiv! Am muscular and about 190 pounds and smaller guys? I ride you like horse I stole and put you back in barn soaking wet! But your point is well made! Some guys like chunky guys and that is fine! I am concern because as health care professional, I know what damage being obese and fat will do how it will tear you body and your life apart!!
onthemark
@Markajv: I already quoted you: “So I have wiped my hand clean of the gay community until they get their heads out of the sand and stop this nonsense.”
I took this to mean, you have decided to stop dating completely because you think the “gay community” in general cheats and you’re absolutely positive you can NEVER find an exception! So you’re going to be celibate for the next several decades! So there – take that, gay community! (Well, unless the gay community stops this nonsense? Either way it’s a long wait.) Not only that, apparently you’ve decided to avoid the gay community even as non-sexual friends? Well, if you want to backtrack because now you realize how crazy all that looks from the outside, go ahead. There are these people called therapists; they may be able to help you.
Anyway, this is all rather off-topic. We’re discussing fatties here. 🙂
YesIDid
@Dorin99: Thanks for that quick description of your sex life.
YesIDid
@Dorin99: What does “lage” mean?
Markajv
@Dorin99: NO!! I believe in Monogamy and the open relationships I have seen have crumbled. If I wanted that I’d become a prostitute.
Dorin99
@YesIDid: Meant large! Sometimes R key on computer of mine get stuck! As far as sex life? Come on! We all have one! Am not ashame of mine and no one should be of theirs. I dont know what is about Americans, but many are paranoid and scare of everything including sex. Lighten up! we all have been hurt but should not make us into withdrawing from life! If how other people think of you is more important than how we think of ourself, then are we not those with much bigger problem? Look, am Roumânie dude and I find many men and women attractiv with little regard to colour and race. America can be strange place. I find European men much more confident and assure of themselves than Americans and I fail to understand why this is! I just do not get it.
dbmcvey
@Masc Pride: Why do we have to be bitchy? Is it something to be proud of. I know you think you’re being brutally honest, but in reality you’re just being douchy. I don’t know why there’s so much sensitivity about it anyway. Are people proud of the fact that they shame people they’re not interested in having sex with?
Dorin99
@Markajv: You are right about this! This is an American issue am never to understand complet. Being from europe, things are so diferent. Even the steams are mix crowd. You know, what in this countrie is called bath house? Back home. men and women both are welcome and all get along. Is really very adult and not so segregate like here. This must be some American thing because I never saw it until here. Am Roumanie, which is Romanian
Dorin99
@dbmcvey: THAT I GET! Being proud of making other feel ashame is something I never understand. I can say and be honest, until I get to America, this is something I never think of or see……………………..
bottom250
@Dorin99: Ohhhh honey that sounds fabulous. You made this queens day.
onthemark
@Markajv: Okay, okay, have it your way – don’t ever date again! No doubt the “gay community” will notice that you’re shunning them and be properly chagrined. And really, I’m glad (albeit amazed) that you have non-sexual friends.
I don’t know where you got this crazy idea that there’s an LGBT community presenting itself as “one big brother/sisterhood” etc. Nobody is/was doing that so there was no reason for you to get “suckered in” by non-existent utopian propaganda that no one was ever saying.
Markajv
@onthemark: AGAIN!!!! putting words in my mouth, When did I say “that you have non-sexual friends.” If that was the case I would have said Asexual friends. But I did not say that did I? Go try bothering someone else. You are mental.
dbmcvey
I know that it’s not just the gay community that does this, but that doesn’t excuse us doing it and it certainly isn’t something that should be defended within the gay community. You can decline a date with someone without being a jerk. You don’t need to give voice to every thought you have. There’s nothing wrong with being kind.
Dorin99
@bottom250: Sunte?i bineveni?i noul meu prieten!! I do not suppose you live in Phoenix Arizona?
Dorin99
@dbmcvey: Hear hear! One thing I learn being here? Those who love to put other people down? I believe they hate themselves even ore but afraid it will show…………………Nce to talk with you dudes, but is beautiful day in Phoenix and I need to go on motorbike ride and get ai blowing up my kilt, so later! Ai grija de tine!
bottom250
@Dorin99: No sweetheart this girl lives in Canada.
onthemark
@Markajv: “Asexual” has a completely different meaning from non-sexual. Really, look it up.
You said you have lesbian friends so I assumed you don’t have sex with with them. Are you saying you have sex with your lesbian friends??? And if you’re having sex with your male friends, you really don’t sound like THAT much of a monogamous type! So have fun and quit whining.
Markajv
@onthemark: f*&K are you Babbling about? You just completely turned to mush. You are making shit up in your mind because you are so dumb. What is YOUR definition of the word Asexual? Because Here is the ACTUAL DEFINITION of ASEXUAL:
a·sex·u·al
??sekSH(?w)?l/
adjective
adjective: asexual
1.
without sexual feelings or associations.
“she rested her hand on the back of his head, in a maternal, wholly asexual, gesture”
2.
BIOLOGY
(of reproduction) not involving the fusion of gametes.
2) Asexuality (or nonsexuality)is the lack of sexual attraction to anyone, or low or absent interest in sexual activity. It may be considered the lack of a sexual orientation, or one of the variations thereof, alongside heterosexuality, homosexuality and bisexuality.[
without sex or sexual organs.
“asexual parasites”
noun
noun: asexual; plural noun: asexuals
1.
a person who has no sexual feelings or desires.
Markajv
@onthemark: 2) Asexuality (or nonsexuality) is the lack of sexual attraction to anyone, or low or absent interest in sexual activity. It may be considered the lack of a sexual orientation, or one of the variations thereof, alongside heterosexuality, homosexuality and bisexuality.
kansasteddybear
I get so tired of these academic types telling us all what to think and believe and be attracted to. Face it, we are not all attracted to the same folks, thank goodness. And if you are not sexually attracted to someone, you just aren’t. I am a big guy (5’11” and 250), and have been told by both larger guys, smaller guys and guys my size that I am either to heavy or not heavy enough. As long as they are polite about it, I have no problem with someone saying they aren’t interested. But when they insult you, then that is uncalled for.
onthemark
@Markajv: Yes, I know that. But you wrote earlier: “AGAIN!!!! putting words in my mouth, When did I say “that you have non-sexual friends.” If that was the case I would have said Asexual friends.” Why would you say “Asexual” in that case? Obviously there’s a difference between non-sexual friends (i.e. friends you don’t have sex with, for whatever reason) and asexual friends who aren’t sexually interested in anyone. Although in your case… maybe you’re confused because your friends are not only non-sexual but totally imaginary?
As for the main point, have it your way. I’m not trying to convince you to start dating again. By all means, be celibate for the rest of your life if you want. I’m sure no one will mind (or notice) if you do that.
DerekR
@Markajv: Let me help settle this, you are BOTH annoying as f@ck and BOTH of you need to get lives…
onthemark
@DerekR: Sorry, he’s fun to mess with, it’s below zero here and I’m bored! Don’t know what his excuse is, lol.
Markajv
@DerekR: Your perception! So fuck off faggot!
Markajv
@onthemark: Where did I say you said I had non-sexual friends. Christ you are so wrapped up in fucking with people you can’t even remember what you said. Scroll up and re-read asshole. Fuck off. Dust!
onthemark
@Markajv: “Your perception! So fuck off faggot!” Gee, it’s really too bad you’ve decided to avoid dating. You sound like quite a catch.
“Where did I say you said I had non-sexual friends.” Yikes, even I’m not bored enough to parse that sentence. But I wouldn’t have minded if you said I said you had non-sexual friends. Or even if you said I said you said I said you said I said you had non-sexual friends. Because I admit it, I DID say you had non-sexual friends. Most people do, so it never occurred to me you’d freak out about such a mundane quotidian statement. Now of course, I realize your friends are imaginary! Does that help?
Brian
You’ve got to remember that the gay identity is an invention. With inventions come rules and regulations as to how to use the invention.
Everything has a label put on it. If you like this label, you go for it. If you like the other label, you go for that one. It’s an organized benevolent dictatorship.
spankt
So we spend millions of dollars around the world trying to end HIV, we talk about body dysmorphia and anorexia but we should celebrate diseases like obesity and heart disease. How does that work. Body fat is hugely visible sign of obesity, just as steroid mass is of liver/kidney problems. And both are choices.
Let’s call it what it is – obesity – a perfectly treatable and curable disease. I understand many of us massive issues around self confidence, self control, stress and circumstance, but let’s not write books about why some guys are not attracted to people with a curable disease.
That said I’m very happy to have fun, drink with big guys and shag them – but as for settling down it always raises a question of why do you choose to be diseased and what does that say about other issues that would come into a relationship.
Mark Behar
As a family medicine health care provider for over 35 years, I must comment that being substantially overweight (“moribundly obese” in med-talk) is not healthy for most people. As someone said previously, high blood pressure, diabetes, heart disease, cholesterol and other lipid abnormalities, metabolic disorders, arthritis, are just a few of the major health consequences of being overweight. However appearing physically fit is also no guarantee of physical and mental health! A complex interaction between genetics and environment/dieting/exercise/drugs, etc. defines one’s health… However in spite of our sexual preferences, there should be no room for prejudice among us. Uhh, and what about older men? And HIV positive men?
Irish Ryan
Fatty Fatty Two by Four,Can’t get though the kitchen door!ð???
cabe
@Dorin99:
There are other reasons people are overweight. Some people have eating disorders and yes, there are 12 step programs for that but not all people comply. And yes, some people have thyroid issues which can be difficult to treat. Most people who are overweight would choose not to be if they could make that happen but for various reasons they can’t. Didn’t you ever know of kids who were genetically overweight? They are on a constant uphill battle their whole lives to lose weight. Your post sounds like your an expert on the issue. Oh, btw – your English sucks.
oddchild1
The biggest problem in the gay community and the worst stereotype that the gay community gleefully perpetuates are the abusive malcontents that are applauded for being “Bitchy” and “Catty”. Just look through the comments and you’ll see “Eww he’s so fat.”, “That skinny bitch needs to eat a sandwich.”, “My god; steroids much, goodbye balls.”, “That guy needs to act like a man; he’s making all gays look bad with his stereotypical behavior.”, “Girl, stop acting so tough everyone knows you’re a bottom.” These people are the worst element in the gay community; the constantly negative and entitled bullies that do nothing but attack and try to tear others down; and who are tolerated because; “He’s just being catty, get over it, it’s part of being gay.”?
Dorin99
@cabe: 1. I know English of mine is not the best, but like I said in many post of mine, Am Roumanie ?i român? este limba de primul meu! Ne pare r?u dac? sunt nu intelege ast?. Nu încerc sa fie dificul, crede m?! Now if you make it through those things I just said, can I ask something?? Why is this an American Problem??? Why are American Children fighting with fat all their lives and where is this poof of having so much weight being this matter of genetics??? Am not trying to be dificult, but we do not see this is Europe and definitely not in Romania! So what is it about your gene here in this countrie that has turned to defect? Am sory for anyone this happen to, but honest? I do not believe it! And if is trrue, then you countrie has bigger problems! Something in environment of yourr is turning your county of nativ white Americans into genetic defect!!!! I already mention thyroid problems, and yes, I am healthcare professional, so yes, I have expeience to back what am tying to say! We are all attracted to something and someone different, that is not in question! We are talking about fat and it exist because of exceeding your feed limit. I do not drink soda! I know is not good for me! Your body will store tons of fat if you eat this sugar in large amounts! This is not as you Americans like to say, is not science of flying rockets!!!!!!! No one should be abuse because of being overweight, but get help! Find out what you body is revolting against, because something has serios gone wrong if you are over weight! I do not want to see fat people shamed! I want to see them working it off and living long healthie lifes! Am Nurse College degree in Ortopaedic phisiology
Dorin99
@bottom250: What part de canada? If I ever come your way, Want to meet? Ever take vacanta in Arizona? I would like to post foto of me in profil herre, but crap! Can not access! Would love some time to see if any chemistrie exista! If you like Roumanie dudes?
inbama
@Glücklich:
No surprise this joker is a “gender studies” guy.
I am sick to death of the current crop of pseudo-intellectuals stretching words like “fascism” until they have no meaning.
spankt
Dust… anyone, dust.
Anyone… dust, dust anyone? Dust
A.R.D.
@inbama:
No, you just don’t like it when your fragile ideals of masculinity are challenged.
I’m gonna go out on a limb and say many of the men here complaining about his point are the same men who want the T out of LGBT, who reject those who identify outside the gender (or even sexual) binary (or god forbid, don’t identify as sexual at all), and love to post “no spice, no rice” on their hookup apps.
On the bright side, social progress DOES often win, if after long battles. So you’ll be in the dust eventually.
Alex Berger
There is a solution: loose weight
PJ
As a 5’9 gay man who has weighed everything between 126 pounds and 205 pounds I can say that confidence is way more attractive than body type. In fact, I’ve gotten more compliments on my body in the 150-170 pound range than I ever did when I was a skeletor. It’s all about how you carry yourself. Yes, some gay men are horrible body shammers, but so are some straight men, lesbians, and straight women. People need to stop playing victim, go out there and work what they’ve got and not care what others think.
onthemark
@Dorin99: “This is not as you Americans like to say, is not science of flying rockets!!!!!!!”
LOL, I think you just made Romania my next vacation trip. I’ll check it out. (Vampires don’t really exist, do they?)
The average American drinks 600 cans of soda a year. That’s AVERAGE. Blech.
In the US we have “children’s menus” at restaurants – chicken nuggets, fried this-and-that – and in Europe there’s no such thing as a children’s menu. In the US outside of NYC almost everyone drives everywhere all the time and gets no exercise whatsoever. Kids USED to get exercise, but now they are not allowed outside unsupervised until age 16 or so; recess & P.E. have been abolished so they can do more testing so they can (maybe) get into college for their barista degree.
These are a FEW of the factors, and there are many more of course. There are only a tiny minority of people who have genuine thyroid or genetic reasons like “cabe” says.
The Tower of Power
@kansasteddybear: I’m so sick of this “shaming” BS. if the guys are not interested in you due to weight, either hang out with large people or work out.
Problem solved.
Masc Pride
@Dorin99: Exactly. There’s a definite defensiveness and an entitlement to be as insulting as they please. Especially if you’re in a group of them, they start suggesting you’re vain/narcissistic, you lack substance and/or you’re not very smart…and all because you live an active lifestyle, watch what you eat and aren’t clogging your arteries at the speed of light. A lot of these types want to be very nasty to others and still reserve the right to cry foul when they detect even a hint of fat-shaming.
@dbmcvey: Who said this community is bitchy? You did, not me (not that I disagree, but I wasn’t the one who originally made that statement). It’s rather interesting that you’re complaining about bitchiness, yet you can’t seem to express disagreement without unnecessary name-calling and hostility.
lelandjr
There are plenty of “big” “stocky” gay men who do very well when it comes to dating, but those men are active and don’t make eating too much food a hobby. What gay men find repulsive and always will is obesity without responsibility, rolls of fat created by eating too much of the wrong foods and too often because they have mental issues that arrest normal functional behavior. Who in hell wants to be around someone always tired, who’d rather eat than exercise, who regularly blocks up the toilet, and promises their partner a gruesome duty in their future old age.
brooklynbobby
Guys! Guys! Guys! Some of you? Did you actually read the article? I read it three more times after reading the comments. Where in the entire things does it say that he thinks gay men SHOULD date larger men to prove they aren’t prejudiced against fat guys? He never says that at all. All he is talking about is the viewpoint a lot of gay men have towards larger men and the way they can treat them. He isn’t at all questioning your choices in who you date. Date who ever you are attracted to!!! Come on. Don’t get all defensive. I think the idea is pretty much live and let live and don’t look down on people just because they don’t conform to your idea of what is attractive. Case in point if I may without getting yelled at. I am in a group on FaceBook that is all about hairy bear men. Someone posted a short video of a not even fat guy but a sexy largerish guy dancing in his boxers in a shower in a club. It was sexy and a lot of guys commented as such. ONE muscle head made several comments about finding it disgusting and how the guy should NOT be dancing in a club to make tips. He was REVOLTED about by it.It was pointed out to him that not only does this guy make tips but he dances in several clubs all over CA from San Francisco down to LA. What the fuck is that? Well he ended up being torn into by it and he didn’t exactly apologize for it but deleted his comments and made a snide comment about how he still didn’t find it to his taste. He was definitely in the minority and all of his comments were certainly body shaming.
Wilberforce
This is just part of the rampant disrespect in ghetto culture. It’s directed against the old and unattractive and non-muscular and fat and you name it. This also the rule in mainstream culture, although it’s more pronounced in the gay world. It’s standard procedure for shallow types to judge by externals, instead of valuing brains and kindness and character. Ghetto types usually have none of these, so of course they’re not going to look for them in others.
The Tower of Power
@Wilberforce: I agree that character counts. No one disputes that. The dispute is that the author seems to imply obese people are “victims” because fewer people are sexually interested in them.
This is BS.
If dates are not interested, it is because you are not pursuing the right people. If you are overweight and pursue other overweight people, you’ll probably be more accepted because you fit in more with them.
I am not trying to justify meanness or rudeness. I stand up to bullying. By the same token, respect is something that is earned and I feel you need to show others you respect yourself if you want to earn it.
The Tower of Power
@The Tower of Power: There was just a story on the local news. A teenaged girl said she was fat shamed by the employees at a clothing store because she couldn’t fit into anything.
If the clothing doesn’t fit, either join a weight loss program, or go to a large people’s store.
People need to relax and move on.
The Tower of Power
As far as heckling is concerned, my response is “bring it on”
When you don’t have facts on your side, yell at people.
Doug
I’ve changed my views on obesity during the last few years. I had a close friend who was very overweight and I supported her when I saw how much she was discriminated against while she was out there dating. She eventually married a loser out of desperation, continued to put on more weight and then experienced two miscarriages as a result. She also dumped me as a friend. In addition, I was diagnosed with lung cancer, worked through chemo and radiation and have survived. I spend a lot of time at the gym working out and taking care of my health now.
And I’ve realized being overweight just isn’t healthy. It puts a tremendous strain on all areas of the body and rather than encourage obese individuals to lose all that extra baggage society is now treating them as victims and saying “you’re all right just the way you are.” Tell that to heart attack victims, those who need hip/knee replacements from carrying around all the extra pounds, diabetes, and many, many other medical problems.
If I could get my ass back to the gym and build muscle after what I looked and felt like after cancer treatment, an overweight person can too. It takes work and it takes discipline. Fat just isn’t healthy, and it’s up to the individual to realize that and make the changes they need to be healthier.
inbama
@A.R.D.:
“No, you just don’t like it when your fragile ideals of masculinity are challenged.”
This is why I despise ideology.
You have no idea as to what I am saying or why and yet you open your idiot mouth attacking not what I’ve said, but crap you think I am saying.
As far as my becoming dust, that’s fine with me.
Plato, Einstein, Sagan – they are all already dust. I’ll be in better company with the actual dead than associated with the brain dead like you.
Kaykaizi
LOLing at the comments on this board. You guys are savages, no wonder the overweight gays are neurotics around you!
Stefano
@brooklynbobby: Good comment.
jheryn
For me the bottom line is judgement. It doesn’t matter if you are gay or straight. No one deserves to be shamed or ridiculed for appearance or station in life.
If you don’t like the way anyone looks or what they do, that is fine. What isn’t fine is that you hurt another person because of it. If you don’t have anything nice to say…
You don’t have to be attracted to anyone you are not attracted to. There is no shame in that. The only shame comes when you decide to purposefully decide to mock or ridicule them. Then the only one that should be ashamed is you.
My best friend is a very large gay man. Obese by anyone’s standards. He is also one of the smartest, funny, and compassionate people I’ve ever known. He will not step foot into a gay venue because of snide comments. It is sad.
I’ve stopped involving myself with many local gay venues as well out of deference to him and the shallow people I find there. No not all are shallow, but the ones that are ruin it for me.
I makes me sad that many gay men who cry out for acceptance from society in general are often times the ones that do not accept others whose only “fault” may be their appearance.
onthemark
@jheryn: Let’s unpack that a bit. By “venues” I’m guessing you mean “bars,” and you really shouldn’t expect too much from bars. “Venues” CAN mean a lot of other places too such as volunteer groups… and let’s get real, you aren’t talking about volunteer groups, are you? 🙂
Several years ago I was run over and injured pretty badly. (NOT my fault btw, and I got a lot of money out of it, not that it’s much solace sometimes.)
Now because of my very obvious disability, I avoid gay bars too, because there’s a weird tendency for some gay men to be deliberately mean to me because of the disability. I don’t totally get this, and I really don’t think they’re even totally aware of doing this! I interpret this behavior as a sort of self-congratulatory recompense for the oppression they’ve faced, or perceive themselves to have faced… or some such nonsensical bullsh*t as that. Anyway my point is I’ve seen both sides of this strange coin, since I was able-bodied as a young man and now I’m not.
I don’t go around blaming the “gay community” for being mean to me. I merely blame alcohol and the nature of bars. I should throw in here that bartenders are uniformly nice to me; they seem to have been trained, or to have trained themselves, to do that. So there IS something to your point. People CAN be aware of what they are doing/saying.
The difference is there’s nothing I can do about my disability. An obese person can do something about being obese. And everybody knows it. I’m not saying it’s easy, but that’s the difference.
onthemark
@jheryn: I suppose I should go a little further and add this (and really, I’m trying hard NOT to be mean here! – I’m just exasperated):
If someone wants to just sit around and blame the “gay community” for all their problems, well I realize that’s a very popular hobby here in Queerty comments, but it’s just a convoluted form of self-hating homophobia.
I am mystified by the attitude some posters here, like you, seem to have, that obesity is just some sort of mysterious malady that happens to someone and there’s nothing they can do about it and they are victims, boo hoo hoo. In fact I’m personally offended by that attitude, because of my situation which I really CAN’T do anything about.
I’m sorry but get a grip on reality and take some freaking responsibility. In fact they/you should be a little hopeful and optimistic!
inbama
@onthemark:
You had me until you started on obesity being “different” from disability.
No one should be mistreated on any account.
jheryn
@onthemark: Well, since you do not know what venues I am talking about maybe you shouldn’t assume anything. While bars are included, that are NOT by a longshot the only places or activities I am talking about.
My friend and I were part of our local gay men’s chorus. No drinking at all, yet the remarks and attitudes were unmistakable. And as far as volunteer services go, our local awareness group that passes out information on LGBT issues, didn’t want him to go door to door because he was so big because they wanted to make a “better impression”.
Being an apologist for drinking and “not being aware” and being mean as congratulations for oppression they have faced is stupid. When are any of these things considered OK? I was oppressed so I will congratulate myself by oppress someone else? Who in their right mind finds that OK?
So before you get self righteous about what someone else is talking about, maybe you should ask before you assume. Onthemark is a complete misnomer.
I do not have a weight problem. My friend does, so what responsibility do I have to take. My responsibility is for people to not be shamed because of their looks.
You are completely delusional if you think that it is OK, for anyone to ridicule anyone else for anything. @inbama echoed what I said.
And if you bothered to actually read what I actually said instead of wanting to soapbox for the community at large, you would see that I acknowledge that it isn’t all gay men. But there is a large number of gay men who are indeed judgmental and hateful toward other gay men for nothing more than their looks. Furthermore, I included straight people in that admonishment as well.
I am only using the gay community references I did, because that is what I was involved in. I have volunteered and done what I could in my local community to further acceptance for LGBT’s. Don’t tell me that any person asking for acceptance from anyone deserves it when they will not do the same for others.
BTW, my friend has several medical issues that keep him severly overweight. He was an athlete in high school and college. So as someone who has a problem he cannot help, I would think you would have a smidgen of understanding. But even if he didn’t have medical issues, his weight should never be a green light for others to be mean to him.
I think it is you that should get a grip on reality and realize that what you are making excuses for will never be right. It is never OK to be mean.
onthemark
@jheryn: ??? – I never said it was “OK to be mean.” I wrote exactly the opposite.
As for WHY guys in bars are mean, I was merely making a guess, and I really don’t know (or particularly care) if my guess is correct or not. I avoid them because that’s the practical thing to do. And because I don’t see much point in typing
Of course there’s a difference between obesity and disability. I don’t know why you’d deny that. Your friend may be limited in the changes he can make at this point, but at least he has some things he can DO to improve his situation. I can’t do anything to improve my situation. That’s the difference!
spiffy
@brooklynbobby: THANK YOU! I thought I was the only one reading a completely different article. Where does it say that you have to be attracted to big men?
Reading the comments, I feel like I’m on Yahoo instead of Queerty.
DCguy
This seems like a recycled article from the 90’s. Bear nights and magazines have proliferated in the last decade. Maybe the author shouldn’t be hanging out in bars that cater to 21 year olds and he might not feel as excluded. Just a guess.
jheryn
@onthemark: Ok, and where in your first response did I say it was “OK to be obese.”? It is unhealthy even for those that have medical issues like my friend. Which segues into…
How can you possibly know what my friend can or cannot do to improve his situation? FYI he has done all he can. He is stuck where he is at. You know nothing of his condition so again with assumptions.
I never made an excuse or thought that it was OK to be overweight. For those that are, however, none of us have the right to be mean or be derogatory toward them for it.
I have yet to find a person that has SOMETHING that they do wrong that they could change just like a fat person. Many of these things are far worse than being fat. They however are not ridiculed as are people with weight problems. Unless you can show anyone your Certificate of Perfectness maybe you should worry about what you can change to make yourself a better person and let others worry about themselves.
onthemark
@jheryn: Nice – you’re the one being mean now, hypocrite. FYI, it’s not in the Gay Rulebook that someone must be “perfect” before calling anyone on their questionable claims.
Don’t put “OK to be obese” in quotes; that’s not something you said OR a quote I charged you with saying.
“none of us have the right to be mean or be derogatory toward them for it.” YES YES YES, I AGREE WITH YOU! And I’ve never stated otherwise. Stop making stuff up.
“You know nothing of his condition” … hey, YOU brought it up, and if you want to explain more nobody’s stopping you. Instead you get mad, type a lot about how mad you are, and still don’t explain anything. You’re being a little coy about your friend’s “medical condition.” I certainly understand if it hampers his ability to exercise (very much my own situation), but it’s quite mysterious if it impairs his ability to monitor his caloric intake at all or alter his diet in any way whatsoever. Yeah right.
onthemark
@jheryn: Whoa, hold on.
You already said he IS still able to walk – not only able to walk, but with enough stamina that he wanted to go door to door volunteering for that group. So even in terms of exercise alone (never mind food), I’m dubious.
Stefano
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26849832
jheryn
@onthemark: Where was I being mean? Nowhere.
To claim your “to much point in typing”, I said OK to be Obese because of your accusation toward me. Exact quote from Onthemark: “I am mystified by the attitude some posters here, like you, seem to have, that obesity is just some sort of mysterious malady that happens to someone and there’s nothing they can do about it and they are victims, boo hoo hoo.” You implied that I found obesity as some malady that cannot be helped and I said nothing of the sort. And your “boo hoo hoo” comment? If that isn’t being mean and you suggesting that it is ok to judge obese people, I don’t know what is.
As for my friend’s condition. He has a degenerative spinal issue that will eventually leave him wheelchair bound. He went door too door using a cane even though he is in pain. He never whines about his condition or bemoans like others do for sympathy. He has told me he will walk until he can’t. Having said that…
I don’t need to offer any explanations for anything. No on questioned your disability, they just took you at your word. Yet now I question your honesty.
You say you agree with me that being mean is not right, yet you cry boo hoo hoo about people with weight problems. You do not know their medical or personal histories. You mock other people’s situations all the while bemoaning your own.
I didn’t start this exchange. You did. You started out making an erroneous statement about me saying I perceived obesity as a mysterious malady when I did not. I am sorry you were disabled by no choice of your own. But that doesn’t entitle you to judge others.
You say that obese people can do something about their problem. Yes many can. Just as you can do something about your judgmental and erroneous statements. It also doesn’t say anywhere in the Gay Rulebook that you have to explain yourself to judgmental, sympathy seeking people.
onthemark
@jheryn: A degenerative spinal issue doesn’t inevitably lead to weight gain. Is EVERY person who can’t walk much, or is wheelchair-chair bound, obese? No, of course not, that’s ridiculous. But that’s your claim, or unexamined belief?
I don’t doubt that it’s difficult to keep weight off (it is for me too especially this time of year; I live in a snowy area – oh damn, another “sympathy seeking” comment from “judgmental” me, lol). I’m also quite sure your friend sneaks in some pizza deliveries when you’re not looking. Not that there’s anything wrong with that; I’m just saying you’re being naive in your bid for self-canonization.
We’ve agreed from the beginning that no one should be mean to the obese in person. (But what if they are? All you can do is avoid them in person, as you said and I agreed.) And even you know that when the person is NOT present, people are going to say whatever they say. From the beginning you’ve seemed confused about the difference between in-person and not-present. The latter includes typing on the internet, btw. This issue doesn’t require quite so much self-righteousness from you, Saint Jheryn. 🙂
jheryn
@onthemark: Again, you don’t know anything about what is going on with him, yet you act as if you do. I am done explaining anything to you. Mostly because, as I said before, you are not owed any explanation and whatever I told you you would just use more of your tired speculation and guesses. You clearly are trolling guesses and implied knowledge because you want to be right, not because you are.
Actually I am not confused at all about the difference in in-person and not present. If you are being nice to people’s faces and making fun of them or making judgments about them behind your back or typing on the internet you are still being two faced, hypocritical and mean. You saying there is a difference just confirms my thoughts about the type of person you are.
I am not trying to be a Saint or seeking canonization. I just don’t like the way ANY people feel it is their right to be shallow and disrespect others because of appearance. You clearly do not understand that. It isn’t about sainthood, it is about being a decent human being.
It isn’t self-righteous to want to stand for the right thing. Just ask advocates for gay rights, women’s rights, anti-bulling, body shaming, etc., etc., etc. Also, clearly you have no comprehension of this.
onthemark
@jheryn: “Again, you don’t know anything about what is going on with him”… Yeah, THAT’S WHY I ASKED. You brought up claims that didn’t make much sense, I’m allowed to ask, and if you don’t or can’t answer, it looks suspicious. If I have caught you in some bullsh*t claims that you can’t back up, gee that’s too bad.
It’s funny how you accuse me of “sympathy seeking” (is that even a bad thing, necessarily?) while your posts are 100% sympathy seeking as Munchausen Syndrome By Proxy for someone else (that makes it virtuous?) who may not even like what you’re saying here!
“I just don’t like the way ANY people feel it is their right to be shallow and disrespect others because of appearance.” Neither do I, but that and $5 will get us cups of Starbucks. You can’t change them by typing a lot anonymously on the internet. As I said at the beginning, all we actually DO in real life is avoid them. As even you seem to acknowledge, since you’re avoiding them! So since we agree on that….
onthemark
@jheryn: “You saying there is a difference just confirms my thoughts about the type of person you are.” That works both ways, keyboard warrior. You saying there is NOT a difference just confirms my thoughts that you’re not being honest with yourself.
Do you go around personally confronting all those “shallow” gay men in bars who make fun of fat people? Oh no no no. (And I don’t blame you.) But why do you save that for diatribes on the internet where you think you’re so, so brave and virtuous, but the mean guys are almost certainly not reading it and therefore you are totally wasting your time?
The answer is: you don’t intend or hope to change anyone else’s actual behavior. You don’t even believe that’s possible, any more than I do. It’s all about the self-canonization, Your Holiness?
jheryn
@onthemark: You call me a keyboard warrior? I guess that is much better than a person like you who is an internet troll.
I plainly see that you are just plain obtuse at best. Saying “A degenerative spinal issue doesn’t inevitably lead to weight gain.” is NOT a question. You didn’t ask anything further about my friend. The questions you asked were questions about generalities. Again with the obtuseness, I told you I was done explaining about my friend because I don’t have to do so. I’m not lying, which by this time makes me wonder if you are lying about your own disability when you seem so callous about others.
Obtuse three: I wasn’t seeking sympathy for anything you sad little person. Asking for people to be compassionate towards others isn’t seeking sympathy, it is decency. Look that word up as I am now convinced you have no knowledge of what it means.
And yes, I do confront others that pick on my friend in particular and who are hateful in general. Again, you prove your ability to guess about others lives when you know nothing about them. I don’t save my “diatribes” for the internet. I do hope to change people’s behaviors. I actually get off my ass, unlike you, and go out into my community and work for change as does my friend.
Onthemark obtuse statement 4: My claims about my friend make perfect sense only you just want to argue about them like any board troll. Anyone can punch a whole in anyone else’s statements and claims if they want to. Especially on the internet. All you have to do is try to shed doubt on anything anyone says by making some counter. I’m done explaining anything to you about my friend. If you believe me or not, I simply don’t care.
jheryn
@onthemark: I apologize for just calling you obtuse, because you are obviously completely uncaring.
You sit at home and argue with people who actually try to do the right thing and sympathy grab. Yep. There it is again, you want pity and awwwws, and I’m so sorry that happened to you and be able to whine about your dilemmas. You asked if that is necessarily bad. Yes it is. No one likes someone who purposefully seeks sympathy. So you had something bad happen. That is awful. No pick yourself up and quit whining and being mean to others who actually TRY to do something worthwhile.
People like you who do nothing for their communities or themselves other than whine about the injustice that has been dumped on them are societal sinkholes.
Again, you use canonization seeking to describe me. I’ll take that any day over the self-pitying, excuse making, do nothing trolls like I would ascribe to you.
And is that mean of me? You bet. After all your trolling, there is nothing about you that deserves kind consideration. So you can reply if you want to get the last word if that is another one of your hang ups, but I won’t care. I’m done dealing with you or reading any more of your useless babble, you sad little troll.
jheryn
@jheryn: So go ahead with your next nasty post. I will never read it.
onthemark
@jheryn: Very well then, this is for the benefit of anyone else still reading. Your new version of the story puts a different spin on that volunteer group’s reaction. Contrary to your assumption, they were probably concerned about the image of sending out one of their volunteers walking door to door with a cane with great difficulty, in apparent pain! The public might think “what the hell kind of sadist volunteer group is this?” There might also very well have been insurance liability issues.
Did any of this ever occur to you? No, because you made up the whole story? Or if it IS true, you realized it didn’t mean what you were declaring it meant. No wonder you hated so much to divulge any details. 🙂
BlogShag
Let’s get real here, how many plus size male models have you seen, unless they are very muscular? How many fat mannequins have you seen of either gender? The fact remains that most people find obesity disgusting.
What bothers me is people trying to make us thin people that are disgusted by it, somehow feel weird because we don’t like it or because we are of a normal healthy weight.
It is instinctively natural to find obesity unappealing. It’s a red flag of unhealthiness and low self-esteem
The Tower of Power
@BlogShag: All but one of my African-American friends prefer fat women.
JaBourg
My comment (or question, rather) may be a bit off topic…
Most Americans are either overweight or obese (I’m too lazy to quote my sources, but this is easily Googled). I suspect the same is true for most gay men in the US. There may be a bit more pressure on us to work out (and as most of us don’t have kids many can actually find the time), but from what I’ve observed, your average gay American man is as chubby as the average straight American man.
So who exactly is excluding heavy set and chubby guys? Most of us ARE heavyset or chubby. Who is doing all this “fat shaming and negative body talk”? Thin people (that would be about 25% of the adult population in the US) who also happen to be mean? Or are we doing it to ourselves?
Desert Eagle
The reason fat people are hated so much is because of what that fat symbolizes – disease, disability and premature death – which is the outcome for the average fat person. The average American (regardless of sexual orientation) being overweight does not make being fat any healthier then when they were in the minority.