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Must-Read: A Dad Reacts To His Young Son’s Coming Out.

I don’t see how a father, or any parent, can look at their son, the one they’ve loved since before the child was even born, and upon hearing him say, “Dad, I’m gay,” turn their back on him. The comments from men much older than me telling stories just like that break my heart. My wife always wants to adopt the teenage kids who write to her; I want to adopt the 60-year-old men who cry when they read that I tell my son how awesome he is. I don’t care if they are as old as my father; they deserve love just as much as anyone else.”

—Blogger Dave, discussing his 7-year-old gay son, on Huffington Post. Photo by Mike Baird

By:           Dan Avery
On:           Mar 30, 2012
Tagged: , , ,

  • 83 Comments
    • jason
      jason

      I’m sorry but anyone under the age of sexual maturation is far too young to be adhering to sexual orientation notions. It should not be encouraged.

      I’m all for acceptance and discussion but it should wait until an age-appropriate time.

      Mar 30, 2012 at 10:10 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JJ
      JJ

      @Jason, I guarantee at the age of 7 you are well on your way of knowing what you like and what you don’t like! I can specifically remember at the age of 7 knowing I liked and looked at guys the way society was already telling me I was supposed to look at girls. Not you or anyone can tell another person when they can or can’t identify with something! We live in a world where sex is thrusted down our throats ( no pun intended) at a very young age! Hello, case and point toddlers and tiaras and all the other shows just like them! Trust me kids know about sex and know about attraction from the very beginning!

      Mar 30, 2012 at 10:30 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Seriously
      Seriously

      @jason: of course, an idiot made the first comment.

      And of course, said idiot assumes that, like driving or voting, being gay has an age restriction; it does not. I certainly was gay (although I did know the word for it at the time) when I was in kindergarten.

      I never understood why, when it comes to homosexuality, many in society focus on the sexuality part. But, when it comes to heterosexuality, they focus on the hetero part. That’s a huge mistake. My homosexuality is not just a reflection of who I want to have sex with, but also who I fall in love with, who I want to hold hands with, who I want to take a romantic walk with. It is not purely a sexual impulse. So it is possible for a prepubescent boy or girl can know they are gay without there being a ‘sexual’ component to it.

      Mar 30, 2012 at 10:33 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MikeE
      MikeE

      the point is not that the child might know he is gay – knowing what that means or not. The point being that the PARENTS technically cannot know their child is gay if the child cannot express exactly what that means for himself.

      I knew I was gay quite young as well. At least, I knew that when I watched a romantic scene in a film, I wanted to be in the man’s arms, rather than be the one holding the woman. But I could never have expressed that at so early an age. And I certainly did not have the concepts to express this to my parents or to any other adult when I was 7.

      So how can these parents “know” that their child is gay?

      Mar 30, 2012 at 10:53 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sheena
      sheena

      @jason: i know i dont like pussy since im 3 so shut up

      Mar 30, 2012 at 11:15 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sheena
      sheena

      @sheena: im a transsexual btw

      Mar 30, 2012 at 11:16 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Glenn
      Glenn

      @MikeE so, just because you didn’t have the capacity to express yourself at 7 means everyone is the same way? The story reads “A Dad Reacts to his Son’s Coming Out” which to me means that this kid did have the ability to do it.

      We live in a day where homosexuality is on TV shows and is a major topic of discussion, maybe if you grew up in that atmosphere as a 7 year old watching romantic films you would have the understanding what your attraction meant as well.

      Mar 30, 2012 at 11:17 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Scott
      Scott

      @MikeE: You also have to consider the times as well as the parents. When you were 7, how often were issues about gay marriage, etc. on the news? Did your parents discuss it with you? This is a 7 year old in the year 2012, where homosexuality is one of the biggest topics in North America (and the world) and is widely talked about. He also has the benefit of having informed parents.

      On a personal note, I can remember cutting out a shirtless picture of Dean Cain from a magazine, since I was obsessed with Lois & Clark. That show ended in 1997, around when I was 7 years old. I also remember hiding it, so clearly I was very aware of how my feelings would’ve been judged at that time… So yeah, I’d say this kid could safely say that he is gay and any criticism from gay men themselves have to do with the fact that they were unable to do so when they were 7 because of society’s stance on the subject.

      Mar 30, 2012 at 11:21 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Spike
      Spike

      @jason: So that would be your response to your 7 year old son if he was to tell you he was gay . . . ‘you are under the age of sexual maturation and far too young to be adhering to sexual orientation notions”???

      Wow, that’s compassionate, I’m sure a 7 year old would total embrace the concepts of sexual maturation and sexual orientation notions. And how is anything but listening and telling the boy it’s ok and he loves him no different ‘encouraging it?’ BTW, was exact age did all of us gays reach sexual maturation and begin adhering to sexual orientation notions? Do share.

      Mar 30, 2012 at 11:25 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Nathan91
      Nathan91

      I’m pretty sure that if homosexuality/bisexuality was explained to me as a kid that I would have known that I was bisexual then.

      Mar 30, 2012 at 12:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The Real Mike in Asheville
      The Real Mike in Asheville

      @jason: The dad is not suggesting any type of sex education talk, he is talking about honest and loving answers to a youngster’s questions. Age appropriateness is all about about taking into account age; that does not mean ignoring a youngster’s questions, concerns, wants, desires. And at 7, it is proper and appropriate to answer that “sometimes boys like boys and girls like girls, and sometimes, as you grow, what you like and want change. But, whatever happens, and whomever you grow to be and grow to love, I will always love who you are.”

      When I came out to my parents, my dad, like this dad, was crystal clear about 2 things: my wants and desires are as legitimate and valid as everyone else; and he loved me no matter whether my wants and desires were to fall in love with a man or a woman. I was 20 when I came out, and sex was not even an iota of the conversation.

      ***********

      At 7, I certainly remember that there was always something about Beaver Clever’s older brother Wally (Tony Dow), who was probably about 12 at the time. No I did not understand what it was, but that does not change that he sparked a special interest of desire, a desire that I related was “supposed” to be for girls.

      Mar 30, 2012 at 12:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brand
      Brand

      @MikeE: I totally know where you’re coming from. But, as usual, Queerty gets it wrong. The original article at the Huffington Post—and, more importantly, the series of articles by the mother—show that they are not at all sure that their son is gay, but perfectly comfortable with the likely possibility. The son hasn’t said a word about “being gay”, what he has said is that Blaine from “Glee” is “my boyfriend”. He has a crush on a boy. That could be a clear indication that he’s gay or it could be what is so lame to hear at 17 but is so true at 7, a phase.

      Really, anybody who wants to read something beautiful, go over and read not only the father’s article but the mother’s series of articles. I was so incredibly moved, tears streaming down my face for like four or five of them. There’s one about the kid seeing this anti-gay activist that will just melt your heart. I absolutely love this family and the love they have for each other. If they don’t literally win some sort of GLAAD award or something, it would blow me away.

      Frankly, the series of articles or posts or whatever you call them should win a Peabody. (Frankly, she should get a friend to proofread, but that’s a minor quibble when what she’s saying is this profound, enlightened, and beautiful.)

      Mar 30, 2012 at 1:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Rob
      Rob

      MikeE is correct, I knew that I was bisexual or not heterosexual when I was a kid but like Nathan I didn’t know how to express it. My mom picked up on it and was fine with it though.

      Mar 30, 2012 at 1:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • doug105
      doug105

      As far back as 3rd grade if you had asked me who I thought was cute it wouldn’t have been a girl I named. And it was a few years before I was to even hear the word gay.

      Mar 30, 2012 at 1:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DenverBarbie
      DenverBarbie

      My 8 y/o nephew started referring to himself as gay not too long ago. I first chuckled about it, thinking that he was just using words he hears from the adults he lives with, but then thought that maybe this kid is one of the lucky ones who has the language to express how he feels. The majority of us know how we are oriented since we were itty bitty, but many of us didn’t know what to call it until our teens (or later). I certainly think there is a chance that he’s labeling himself to “fit in” with the adults he spends time with. His mother and three of his aunts are something other than heterosexual. It’s possible. Though, it’s also possible that he’s just telling us the truth.

      After all, he is high functioning autistic. Fitting in with us isn’t much of a concern.

      Mar 30, 2012 at 2:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tommyz
      Tommyz

      At 7 i was in LOVE with Ben on the Waltond, drhanging out with girls playing mystery date, and being smacked around by ny dad for not being manly enough. I was pulled out of ballet at 9 because his son had to be a man. So yeah – your parents know your orientation early. Btw after years if therapy ( oh pardon – not me – my dad went to therapy) i can proudly state that he is finally man enough to embrace his gay son. Thank god this kids Dad doesnt need 17 years in a couch to be human.

      Tom

      Mar 30, 2012 at 2:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • LittIe,Kiwi
      LittIe,Kiwi

      wonderful and inspiring. to everyone with a similarly-supportive father, get him to visibly and vocally spread the same message.

      http://littlekiwilovesbauhaus.blogspot.ca/2011/04/fathers-message.html

      Mar 30, 2012 at 3:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tono
      tono

      @jason: I knew at six. My my sexual attraction to men is just one of many ways I express my queer identity.

      Mar 30, 2012 at 3:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • timncguy
      timncguy

      @Brand: Actually, the most recent article the the mother wrote was when the son did actually come out and say he was gay. And, after this, the mother made sure she spoke with his teachers and the family friends to make sure any of them would have the appropriate reactions if her son told any of them he is gay.

      Mar 30, 2012 at 4:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Schlukitz
      Schlukitz

      @jason:
      Jason, you are a prude. I knew at the age of 5. I had my first boy-crush in first grade. Just because I could not express it or tell anyone about it, did not mean that I did not know.

      Mar 30, 2012 at 5:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason

      Just because you like something, it doesn’t mean your sexual orientation is formed or fixed.

      My point is that sexual orientation discussions should wait until your teen years. Including them at an early age adds layers to a child’s life that don’t need to be there. There are so many elements to a developing child – under no circumstances should they be construed as orientation. If that upsets your political cart, so be it.

      Mar 30, 2012 at 5:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Pete n SFO
      Pete n SFO

      I knew I was different from as long as I can remember. I read books, etc and thought perhaps it would ‘go away.’ It didn’t.

      There probably is a balanced response that would make sense for parents, but if the kid feels confident enough to express it, he probably knows for certain. Power to him.

      Mar 30, 2012 at 5:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Xerxes
      Xerxes

      A seven year old certainly is incapable of having sexual attractions (as opposed to curiosities). The hormones just are not there. A seven year old may feel differently – but how does he know how to interpret what that different feeling means? Once puberty has begun, lots of kids who are heterosexual have their first sexual experiences doing a circle jerk with other kids. On some level they are turned on by this, although heterosexual, and the act appears to be homoerotic, but it is not homosexual. I think that verbal expressions by a seven year old are more likely feelings of affection that they may have for someone who is known to be gay, and who may be bullied or somehow scorned. The seven year old wants to feel supportive of this gay person, and thus concludes that he is gay himself. There are lots of possibilities. Remember,as a seven year old, this is an age when kids are just sorting out reality from fantasy.
      I think that many of us who “knew” that we were gay at age 5 or 7 or 8 felt somewhat as an outsider to some degree and could not account for it. I believe that it is only when we were much older, definitely beyond puberty, that we looked back and NOW claim that we knew that we were gay. It is how we explain this ‘difference”. But a seven year old knowing that he is gay? I say it ain’t possible.

      Mar 30, 2012 at 5:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Schlukitz
      Schlukitz

      @Xerxes:

      “A seven year old certainly is incapable of having sexual attractions (as opposed to curiosities). The hormones just are not there.

      Guess you haven’t heard about your brain, the other sex-organ.

      http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/exchange/node/374

      “I say it ain’t possible.”

      Just because you “say” it, doesn’t make it a fact. Your argument holds no more water than the religious right maintaining that homosexuality is a choice. And why should it matter to you what a seven-year old thinks or feels?

      Is it somehow taking something away from your life, in the same manner that NOM believes that same-sex marriage will take something away from opposite-sex marriage?

      You are entitled to believe whatever you want. After all, it is still a free country. But denying the thoughts, feeling and experiences of others, is a bit disingenuous of you and makes you sound like a fundamentalist.

      Mar 30, 2012 at 6:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Rey
      Rey

      @jason:

      I don’t know about you, Jason. But I knew that there was something different about me from my two brothers, who are straight, by the time I was 4. I was too young to know what to name what that difference was but it was already apparent that I did not see the world the same way that both of did. Also from 4 on up, I was fantasizing about men, never women. Male actors, male news anchors, good looking men in the neighborhood.

      I was gay but living in a relatively conservative environment I did not have the words to name my orientation. I can see how a kid at 7, who grew up with better educated parents and a less conservative environment, would be cognitively mature enough and compelled to identify his own orientation. He is reminded of that difference daily.

      Mar 30, 2012 at 6:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Schlukitz
      Schlukitz

      @jason:

      “Just because you like something, it doesn’t mean your sexual orientation is formed or fixed.”

      Going by that addled observation, then my liking Hagen Daz chocolate ice cream “could” mean that I really like oatmeal raisin cookies…but haven’t figured it out yet.

      Jason, like so many other people in this country of ours, you really are in sexual denial, especially as relates to homosexuality. There is a gathering of knowledge and an increasing body of scientific evidence that points in the direction that our sexual orientation is already decided at birth…perhaps even while we are being carried by our mothers.

      “My point is that sexual orientation discussions should wait until your teen years. Including them at an early age adds layers to a child’s life that don’t need to be there.”

      Most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. My guess is that you are are probably one of those folks who thinks that sex education in school will turn all kids queer. My folks didn’t believe in discussing sex under our roof either and like so many other kids who grew up in the 40s and 50s in a very sexually repressive society, I had to learn about sex in the gutter and go through tons of self-doubt and guilt before I became ok with being gay in a mostly straight world.

      The withholding of knowledge, whether it be sexual or otherwise, is the must painful, harmful and destructive thing that we can inflict on our children. It’s as insane as New York City’s banning of 50 words on test-exams that might just possibly upset or offend someone. We are not living in a vacuum and kids have a right to know what is going on inside their bodies, as well as their minds. We owe them honesty. Anything less than that, is definitely “layering a child’s life”, as you rather oddly put it.

      “If that upsets your political cart, so be it.”

      Judging by your negative comments and the desire to avoid the discussion of sexual issues, openly and honestly with your children, it would appear to me that it is your political cart that has been upset.

      Mar 30, 2012 at 6:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mark
      Mark

      @jason: I knew I liked boys when I was 7 as well though when I was 7 I had no idea the word homosexual even existed – I just knew what I liked so I call bullshit on your suggestion. You cannot lump your experience and say all people experiences something exactly like you did, or did not.

      Mar 30, 2012 at 6:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mark
      Mark

      @Xerxes: tell that to a little boy who’s having erections and yes, it does happen.

      Mar 30, 2012 at 6:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • BigBlowJob
      BigBlowJob

      I knew when I was 4 1/2 ~or~ 5 that I was “different”…BBJ

      Mar 30, 2012 at 6:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Hephaestion
      Hephaestion

      @jason: When I was 5 years old, all the other kids in my town were telling ME that I was gay. And they were right. I denied it… but they were right. And I would have had a childhood with some joy in it if I had just said “OK, you’re right. I am gay.”
      Unfortunately instead I spent my entire youth denying that I was gay, even though I knew I was, and desperately trying every second of every day to BE straight. It was an impossible mission, and I was miserable throughout my childhood because I never accepted my gayness. When I see a 7 year old come out, I think to myself: “Thank you, God, for letting some kids today ENJOY their childhood accepting who they are. It is a great, great blessing.”

      Mar 30, 2012 at 7:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sam
      Sam

      Little Kiwi, your coercion will not work, give it up already dude. Not everyone has to have a blog, site, or u-tube vids whatever. No one has to give into your demands. Always the same crap, different day, “…show your self, show me your site and videos or you’re not out and your dad hates you and won’t ever accept you as being LGBT, put up a pic, or you’re not masculine and hate effeminates…” Give it a rest. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, we got it…you’re here, you’re queer, good for you haha thankfully not everyone is exactly like you.

      Mar 30, 2012 at 7:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Codswallop
      Codswallop

      If you’d read the dad’s entire post and the posts by his wife, you’d know that they AREN’T “sure” their 7 year old son will be a gay adult. What they DO know is that he is now saying he’s gay and they love him no matter if he is gay or straight, “masculine” or “effeminate.”

      In fact the real point of the story isn’t that a 7 year old came out as gay but that when he tells them he is they respond with love and approval because they don’t really care if he’s gay or straight, they love him either way. They aren’t “pushing him into” being anything other than himself.

      Mar 30, 2012 at 8:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • J Stratford
      J Stratford

      Some kids are smarter than other kids
      Some kids are more aware than other kids
      Some kids are smarter than other adults
      Some kids are more aware than other adults

      So if you think one can not tell if one’s gay at age 7, you are one of those kids who werent smart enough or aware enough. Dont worry, you probably had other redeeming qualities.

      Mar 30, 2012 at 10:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Al
      Al

      I’m confused by this.

      Mar 31, 2012 at 12:44 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Howard
      Howard

      @jason: So you’re saying that if the 7 year old kid said, “Dad, I like girls” you would say well “Let’s just wait and see what happens when you’re 14 and we’ll talk about it then.”

      Don’t put the self-hating on homosexuality. You know when you know. It may have been later for you, but I had on my mom’s shoes, didn’t like girls but loved boys and wanted to kiss them when I was 6. Nothing changed…well other than growing out of my mom’s shoes.

      Mar 31, 2012 at 1:52 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Frasco
      Frasco

      @jason: I explicitly recall my time in kindergarten at the age of five. In my classroom in there was a kitchen play-set. Kids would act and play the roles of grown-ups just like their own mommies and daddies. In my case I played house with another boy. We treated each other like a husband and wife.(I use those terms because modern terminology was not in my vocabulary at that age, and both of our parents fit the old paradigm of the woman staying home while the man worked) We did pretend-chores such as cooking, cleaning, shopping etc. We even gave each other hugs and kisses on the cheek. There was nothing sexual about it. I wasn’t worried about societal constructs of traditional marriage. What I experienced was the joys and compassion of a mutually beneficial relationship through the eyes of a child.

      So what if the kid in the article recognizes his orientation from a young age? I wish my parents would have taught me to love who I choose instead of beating around the bush about it. Even if he was somehow mislead or changes his mind later down the road, it’s not like it’s written in stone.

      Starting in grade two my mom forced me to go to a catholic teachings class every Thursday night.(reason being I went to a public school instead of a catholic one) I was systematically brainwashed into believing someone else’s beliefs until the age of thirteen. Around that same time I started to feel sexual attractions towards other boys and began developing my own outlook on life. In hindsight those religious classes crippled my ability to express my true feelings to my friends and family. Mainly because I was taught to believe homosexuality is a sin punishable by a man in the sky.

      I agree with your poorly articulated comment to an extent. Ideally sexuality should not be taught until the child is old enough to experience feelings of attractions for themselves. In my experience I knew pretty much everything there was to know about sex before puberty. Kids have a way of gossiping about things their parents wouldn’t dare speak of. At the same time parents should teach their kids that they can love anyone they want to when they’re mature enough. They also need to know the difference between love and infatuation in order to prevent future heart-break.

      Mar 31, 2012 at 1:58 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Schlukitz
      Schlukitz

      @Howard:

      +1000 The first paragraph in your reply to Jason is a perfect analogy.

      Mar 31, 2012 at 2:02 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Schlukitz
      Schlukitz

      @Frasco:

      You were a late-bloomer. ;P

      By the age of 7 or 8, I was already experimenting with some of my male classmates and by the age of 10, I already knew how to masturbate and what an orgasm felt like.

      My grandparents on my mother’s side of the family came from Austria. Grandma was 13 and grandpa was 15 when they married.

      We Americans just hate to see our kids grow up and do everything in their power to shelter them and keep them from doing so with the end result being that it takes them the next ten or 15 years to figure out what the heck life is all about…if they ever do?

      The plain, unvarnished truth is, we are sexual beings from the moment that we are born and our sexuality does not turn-on like a light bulb at some mystical age. It’s an ongoing process that starts at birth and perhaps even before. Show me a baby who has not discovered his penis or clitoris and much to the embarrassment and consternation of the parents, wants to play with it.

      All of this sexual denial is just so much Christian brainwashing. And the most pitiful part of it, is that it totally trashes one of the most beautiful gifts and experiences that we can have in this all-too-short lifetime.

      I would prefer to see my 7 year old child embracing whomever they feel attracted or walking hand-in-hand with someone they feel close to, regardless of sex, to watching them sit at an X-Box all day long virtually destroying property and killing people.

      Some way to prepare a youngster for a world that is literally dying for a little love and compassion.

      Mar 31, 2012 at 2:21 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tommyz
      Tommyz

      What I find fascinating is commenters reactions that pidgeonhole the conversation about sex. I guess for some on here there is no value to their relationships outside of anonymous flings in a back room. For others their homosexuality has more to do with their feelings towards members of the same sex above the waist rather than below.

      http://izismile.com/2011/02/15/gay_kids_53_pics.html

      Mar 31, 2012 at 2:48 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason

      Look, I had the hots for my tonsils surgeon when I was 8. It didn’t mean that I was interested in identity politics. By all means, accept children in their formative years but stop imposing your highly politicized version of sexuality on them. Stay out of their lives and let children be children.

      Mar 31, 2012 at 9:32 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ptboat
      ptboat

      @jason: Well, Jason, I guess you haven’t seen a single children’s cartoon, nor read fairy tales, nor sat in a room full of parents talking about their children’s future or that little Johnny and Little Mary will someday get married. Both gender roles and future sexual roles are instilled in children from a very young age. Childhood is filled with examples of this, down to silly wedding cakes that have child brides and grooms on top.

      There are scores of gay people who report understanding that they are different and even that they are attracted to the same sex, in the same, innocent, way that their peers are attracted to the opposite sex. We all know the stories of how peers seem to figure out which kid is going to grow up gay and begin treating him or her differently disdainfully. Sexual orientation is not all about the act of sex and expresses itself rather early.

      So, by saying that this shouldn’t be encouraged, are you saying that it should be discouraged? This is the same notion that causes so many kids to feel shame about who they are. If the child is truly heterosexual, but just mis-expressing his feelings for his same sexed friends, he’ll grow out of it when he is old enough to understand the difference between his love of friendship and the deep emotional and sexual feelings of sexual orientation. He’ll be balanced in that he’ll know that his father would love him no matter what. If, conversely, he turns out to truly be gay, he’ll know that his father loves him no matter what; however, if his expression of his self perceived orientation is discouraged, he’ll attach shame to it. Whether he is gay or straight, this will be something that he worries about and will negatively impact his life.

      Mar 31, 2012 at 10:45 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Robert in NYC
      Robert in NYC

      @JJ: I agree, and the bulk of sex shoved down our throats is mostly heterosexual. I knew as young as 6 years of age that I liked boys.

      So Jason, you would discourage heterosexual boys and girls of similar age? No wonder this society is so fucked up about sex.

      Mar 31, 2012 at 11:21 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dave
      Dave

      Read my novel Butterfly Dream for a real story about a young boy, 5 years old, that realizes he is gay. Some here, may learn something.

      http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=butterfly+dream

      Dave

      Mar 31, 2012 at 12:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Schlukitz
      Schlukitz

      @jason:

      Now you are resorting to and engaging the same abhorrent tactics that the Christian right engage in when they cannot logically win a discussion or debate.

      They respond by telling other people what they can and cannot do and start issuing directives and orders as to how they should live their lives. They even go so far as to amend existing laws and make new ones to make sure that they have the last say-so. See Prop 8 in California and all of the disgusting actions of NOM.

      “Stay out of their lives”

      Hello? We are talking about human beings here who are growing and experiencing almost daily change in their bodies and minds. We are not talking about raising flowers in your petunia patch. These kids have feeling, needs and desires that they need to be able to express and talk about in an honest, open, caring and loving atmosphere. Shutting them down by telling them that “You’re not old enough to understand” or telling them “We can have this conversation when you are sixteen” doesn’t cut it. It’s a total cop-out. Why is that so difficult for you to understand, Jason?

      If a four year old came to you and said that he wanted to learn the multiplication tables, would you tell him that he’s not old enough for that? What if he came to you and said that he wanted to be a ballet dancer? Would you give him the same idiotic comment that Santurum made to a kid, one that he did not even know, about using a pink bowling ball being inappropriate with the clear implication that his using it is un-masculine?

      “let children be children.”

      That’s precisely what we are talking about here. Kind, caring, supportive and loving parents should be able to convey that to their kids, letting them be kids, without having to go through all of the painful BS about homosexuality being a sin, yada, yada, yada. If alternate information is not available to them until they are in their teens, the brainwashing by the religious right has already been done, producing a human being who is damaged and totally confused about his sexuality. Haven’t enough people on this planet already been tortured and made to suffer because they could not openly admit their sexuality? How many more of our children must die because of the stigma that has been placed on LGBT by the RC Church and a largely mindless society who blindly follow the hateful dogma emanating from their hallowed walls of the Vatican?

      This will be my last response to you, because it is clear to me and most of us on this thread that you are not open to honest debate. You are simply here to impose your own negative feeling and your own brand of morality on others.

      In short, you are being a psychological bully.

      Mar 31, 2012 at 1:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • drewa24
      drewa24

      Jesus H Christ, can we please just let this Jason freak wither and dye? Who the hell cares what this pursed lipped prudence thinks or says? Obviously his University of Phoenix doctoral degree in Child Psychology and development has served him well engaging others on a fucking BLOG! Jason is 54 yrs old, waiting for his first stolen touch from some pedophile in a Burger King mens room. Jason has the capacity and cognitive abilities of a 7 yr old and can’t quite understand how sexuality comes to human beings since he has never experienced it. Jason sucks his thumb wishing it were a cock.
      What’s important here is that these parents and this kid are beyond AWESOME! What a treat it will be for this young man to grow up knowing he is EXACTLY who he is supposed to be and his parents never did anything to suppress that because they understood there was NOTHING to suppress. Bravo, and I wish this kid a lifetime of hot man on man sex and deep unquestioning love and friendship for all of the people in his life.

      Mar 31, 2012 at 1:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Robert in NYC
      Robert in NYC

      @Schlukitz: Well said, I couldn’t have said it any better. Jason, I believe is coming from a religious based belief. When I was growing up in the 50s and early 60s, I would often hear that old addage no longer used that “children should be seen but not heard”. Is it no wonder that in the public education system in this day and age, there is still no sex education being taught, let alone any national standard to teach it? Not that many of the parents are that supportive of it. Meanwhile, underage teenagers are experimenting sexually without any information to protect them from STDs. No guidance or input from their parents who refuse to talk about it. Remember the public uproar over vaccinating teenage girls against the human papilloma virus? Parents were outraged.

      Mar 31, 2012 at 1:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Schlukitz
      Schlukitz

      @drewa24:

      “Jesus H Christ, can we please just let this Jason freak wither and dye?”

      Would that it were that simple, Drew. People like Jason are always lurking on the sidelines waiting for an opportunity to inject their twisted view points on others. We label them trolls for a reason.

      “Who the hell cares what this pursed lipped prudence thinks or says?”

      We all need to care what pursed-lip prudence types think and say. Think Maggie Gallagher, Brian Fischer, Tony Perkins, Peter La Barbara, etc., etc. Do you honestly think haters like this are simply going vanish if we ignore them and pretend that they do not exist? That would tantamount to sticking our heads in the sand.

      The LGBT community is California can tell us a thing or two about paying people like this no mind, I am sure. And the homophobic voters in California did not ignore us, did they? They turned out, in record numbers to impose their viewpoints on innocent people and families.

      No. I will never ignore the haters. I will call them, each and every time they raise their ugly heads, as we all need to do if we are ever to win this battle for our equality. It’s not an eight-hour day job, with two weeks off for vacation and 8 sick- days coming.

      Beyond that, I am in total agreement with the rest of your post. :-)

      Pax

      Mar 31, 2012 at 1:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Schlukitz
      Schlukitz

      @Robert in NYC:

      Hi Robert.

      What a pleasure it is to hear from you again. It’s been far too long since we exchanged dialogue. The fault, of course, is mine since I have become very active on the JMG blog and don’t visit Queerty as much as I once used to.

      I recall the oft-repeated mantra “Little children should be seen and not heard”. It was cause for me giving myself many a face-palm. As you so rightly said, no wonder our school system is in such a mess with regard to the teaching of sex-education in this country. So many different viewpoints on the topic…and all of them, coming from a religious point of view, just like Jason.

      I believe it was Werner Erhard, the creator of EST and later, The Forum, who said, “We teach our kids to become carpenters, plumbers, electricians, technicians, clerical workers, etc, but the one thing we do NOT teach our children, is how to effectively deal with and live their personal lives with zest, fulfillment and happiness”.

      That, sadly, is left to the shawmans, priests, Imans, pastors, Rabbis and other stuck-in-the middle-ages propagators of unworldly beings, miraculous births, and people who rise from the dead after walking on water, feeding a multitude with two fish and five loaves and turning the sea red and turning simple water into wine.

      When will this ever change, I wonder?

      Mar 31, 2012 at 2:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Xerxes
      Xerxes

      @Mark:

      An infant is capable of having an erection, and it has nothing to do with sex. I can not believe how smug people are here, who are not at all familiar with the science.

      Mar 31, 2012 at 2:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Xerxes
      Xerxes

      @Schlukitz:

      Judging from all the ignorance that you have displayed in your various posts and replies (not to mention hositlity), it sounds like right after your grandparents allegedly married at ages 13 and 15, as you claim, when” they settled here from Austria”, they must have landed in a trailer in West Virginia, with each successive generation of your family inbreeding and successfully blocking out any knowledge of science or medicine. Are you institutionalized in WV?

      Mar 31, 2012 at 2:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Robert in NYC
      Robert in NYC

      @Schlukitz: Hi Schlukitz, it was great to see you back on Queerty. I remember well our exchanges, almost always in sync with one another. Sadly, our society has allowed religious bigotry to take control of the political system. Nowadays, no candidate can run unless he or she professes a religious belief system as if that had anything to do with good governance. Imagine an atheist running for office. The ignorance of people when it comes to sexual issues is mind-boggling and I don’t see it getting any better for any forseeable time, not with religious mania in control.

      I used to post on JMG but for the past several weeks, it just doesn’t accept any comments when I click “submit”. It’s impossible trying to contact anyone about it. Meanwhile, you can find me here. I’ not hopeful the problem I’m having with JMG will ever be resolved.

      Mar 31, 2012 at 2:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Schlukitz
      Schlukitz

      @Xerxes:

      Your comment, no doubt, has something to do with something?

      Mar 31, 2012 at 2:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Robert in NYC
      Robert in NYC

      @Mark: I had the exact same experience at 7 too and discovered masturbation but I also knew I liked boys and not girls. At the age of 8, I began to feel attracted to boys older than me and had my first sexual contact with one when I was 13, the other boy was 16, bisexual and a neighbor. He initiated it but I was more than willing to accommodate him. I don’t regret one day of it nor did I have any guilt. We had contact many times until I was his age. He later married and is still married to the same woman, but we’ve not contacted one another in many years. All I can say is, they are pleasant memories to this day.

      Mar 31, 2012 at 2:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • drewa24
      drewa24

      @Schlukitz: You fight the good fight, and all the power in the world to you! I will always stand up for reason and decency and applaud those that are willing to do so over and over. I chose to send people like Jason(or Maggie, Brian, Tony, please don’t make me type anymore of their names) in to anonymity where they can only harm themselves and those who choose to accept what they say as some reasonabe response to a persons LIFE as truth. The important idea that we need to understand is that Gay people are NOT to be understood, tolerated, explained etc., because there is NO distinction that has to be made. We are EXACTLY like everyone else on this planet and nothing anyone says or does will EVER make that false. The conversation may not go your way but it’s not the last conversation we will ever have about this until we have the last conversation. It seems to me that if it never occurred to gay people to feel ashamed, remorseful,or frightened about who they were to begin with we wouldn’t find ourselves battling the likes of THESE people. So rest a little easier knowing that someday, I don’t know when, this will all just be a footnote in our history because we will have won the day, because of parents like the ones in this article, who made being gay the equivalent of asking what you want on your pizza; NO BIG FUCKING DEAL.

      Oh by the way, thanks to some very smart, very reasonable people in California, it is NOT illegal for Gay people to get married.

      Mar 31, 2012 at 2:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • KyleW
      KyleW

      I think that the responses here supporting the belief that the boy could know he was gay at 7, only go to support the nurture versus nature debate.

      All of those who suggest that they KNEW that they were gay before puberty, all express that knowing in terms of affectionate feelings towards males. There’s a difference between emotional and sexual attraction – that’s why it’s called homoSEXUAL not homoEMOTIONAL. That people develop emotional closeness to those that they are sexually attracted to to, or even that they create romantic ideations are by-products or additional benefits in my opinion.

      The fact is, I was very romantically attracted to a number of female school teachers before puberty, and I have virtually no heterosexual feelings in me.

      There are many reasons for emotional and romantic attraction that have nothing to do with sexuality. Early role models, perceptions of positive character traits, the way people treat you for better or worse.

      How can a child possibly say with any certainty that they have a sexual orientation when they are too young to experience sexuality? At most, they can say that they are emotionally attracted to the same gender, and that is most certainly NOT homosexuality.

      I think that parents in these cases should urge their kid to avoid labelling themselves, especially as the kids do not understand the true feelings that go with the labels. At the same time they should make it clear that they offer unconditional love.

      Mar 31, 2012 at 2:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Schlukitz
      Schlukitz

      @Xerxes:

      “Smug”, you say? Pot. Kettle. Black

      Perhaps it is you who needs to become “more familiar with the science” Try reading “Sexual Development Through the Life cycle”

      http://www.themediaproject.com/facts/development/lifecycle.htm

      And just for your edification, there is a wealth of information on human sexuality awaiting your exploration both in books and on the Internet. Look into it.

      Ignorance is inexcusable in this day and age.

      Mar 31, 2012 at 2:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • LittIe,Kiwi
      LittIe,Kiwi

      aint it amazing that the trolls on here who are still Closeted are insisting that they know better?

      come on, boys. you’ve reached adulthood and are still insecure about being gay. stop being angry that children are leagues ahead of where you are. Clearly your parent’s way of doing things didn’t work. at all.

      Mar 31, 2012 at 2:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Schlukitz
      Schlukitz

      @drewa24:

      Thank you for your kind words of support.

      We are both on the same page.

      Cheers

      Mar 31, 2012 at 2:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Schlukitz
      Schlukitz

      @Robert in NYC:

      I am so sorry to hear about the problems you are experiencing with your comments not being accepted when you click on the submit button.

      JS-kit seems to have some glitches in it that have been noticed by several other posters as well as myself.

      Have you tried contacting him directly to advise him of this problem?

      He can be reached at JoeMyGod@gmail.com

      Hope Joe can fix the problem for you.

      Mar 31, 2012 at 2:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Schlukitz
      Schlukitz

      @Dave:

      I just read the reviews on Amazon and it certainly sounds like a good read.

      I am ordering a copy of your novel, Butterfly Dream, from Amazon.

      Btw, and just a tad off-topic but in a similar vein, have you by any chance seen the excellent video entitled “Sarah’s Key”?

      It’s available as a “Play” movie on Netflix. As has been noted about your book, it is sad, but a good watch and not to be missed.

      Mar 31, 2012 at 3:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dave
      Dave

      @Schlukitz: I think you will find my novel interesting. And I have just added Sarah’s Key to my que. I thank you Schlukitz.

      Mar 31, 2012 at 4:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Schlukitz
      Schlukitz

      @Dave:

      You are exceedingly welcome, Sir.

      And think you for turning us onto to your book. I will be anxiously awaiting it’s arrival in my mailbox.

      Have a great day.

      Mar 31, 2012 at 5:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Schlukitz
      Schlukitz

      @Schlukitz

      err….that should have read “And thank you for…”

      I will make a point of digging out an old t-shirt of mine and wearing it tomorrow that reads:

      I FINALLY GOT IT ALL TOGETHER
      But I forgot where I put it

      Mar 31, 2012 at 5:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Aaron
      Aaron

      Schlukitz stop being such a hypocrite, you hate bisexual men and are a total bigot and no better than Rick Santorum, Maggie Galagaher, the Bachmanns, and Rev Fred Phelps and his klan.

      Mar 31, 2012 at 5:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dave
      Dave

      @Schlukitz: Schlukitz, I understood the “thank” you in your post. I believ you also have it Together just fine. See Aaron for an example of someone who is really not together. :>)

      Mar 31, 2012 at 6:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Oh OK
      Oh OK

      Schlukitz is nothing but a troll, professional victim, eldergay, and a straight up bigot as others have said. He’s one of queerty’s many trolls.

      Mar 31, 2012 at 6:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Nobody cares
      Nobody cares

      Schlukitz and Dave, nobody cares about the tripe you’re posting. It has fuck all to do with GLBT youth. Yes Schlukitz is a bigot and hates bisexual men has he’s shown in previous posts here on queerty and other sites when he talks out of his ass and shows how little he knows about human sexuality.

      Mar 31, 2012 at 6:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Spike
      Spike [Different person #1 using similar name]

      I knew when I was in first grade…but thats when I knew it was wrong to say it. Or actually, I didn’t say I was gay, I said who I liked and heard the word FAG yelled at me for the first time. Thats when I knew I wasn’t suppose to say the truth.
      People mistake saying you’re gay with saying you want to have gay sex as a kid. Kids..STRAIGHT KIDS, in first, second and Third grade don’t say they have a crush on someone and are also thinking they want to bone the person. They just know they like the person. They want to be around that person and maybe hold hands like everyone else.

      Mar 31, 2012 at 6:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Rob
      Rob

      I agree Spike. I also knew when I was a kid. I didn’t know what it meant or what to call myself but my parents would pick up that I crushed on both boys and girls, and that I’d want to kiss male and female friends and peers.

      Mar 31, 2012 at 7:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dave
      Dave

      @Schlukitz: Schlukitz, I just watched “Key”. In the end it tells why I wrote my novel Butterfly Dream. I too am an elder man, who has lived thru way too much. The young people on here tell us in so many words that we are irrelevant. I guess we are. But I will never judge you for your thoughts and beliefs. We lived through a lot, not as much as the character in my novel. But still. Our life was the most difficult life to live in the entire world at that time. They don’t understand that. Oh they may say, but this group had it worse. Or children starved in that country and surely they had it worse. But I still say, put a gay child in any of those places…trust me their life was worse.

      I am unable to tell my story because it would be too traumatic and a little too egotistical. But I will write at least two more novels. I want to put down on paper what the lives of gay people, children in particular, was like in the later part of the 20th Century. It needs to be told if for no other reason then to have the truth put down somewhere. The 50s and Viet Nam is my next story. Then I will do and AIDS years. I use first person stories from people I find and can convince to speak to me. Butterfly Dream is the true story of an old Jewish man I met in San Francisco. It’s dramatized, kicked up a bit and I took dramatic license. But the truths in it are true none the less.

      My e-mail is on the back cover of my novel. Please…let me know what you think.

      Mar 31, 2012 at 7:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • dsp
      dsp

      I knew when I was five or six and my parents told me I was gay when I was twelve. They sat me down and had the “talk”. they wanted to make sure that I felt comfortable and that I could always go to them to talk about everything. My father told me when I was 19 or 20 that he knew I was gay when I was like 4!

      Mar 31, 2012 at 8:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Robert in NYC
      Robert in NYC

      @Schlukitz: Hi Schlukitz, no I haven’t contacte Joe but I’d like to thank you for giving me his email address. I’ll ask him if there’s anything he can do. I thought maybe my firewall was blocking it or something, but doesn’t seem to be the case. I wonder if others have had the same problem? Thank you again, I’ll let you know if I hear from him and if the problem can be resolved. Have a great week.

      Apr 1, 2012 at 7:59 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Matt
      Matt

      Dave your book sounds like it was poorly written and as though it’s full of tiresome professional victimey BS with stereotypical AIDS and Holocaust references playing in the oppression olympics, being a drama queen and claiming that gay men or LGBT people somehow have it the worst in all of human existence and history.

      Apr 1, 2012 at 12:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • So true!
      So true!

      Finally some truth from Dave about old queens like himself and Schulkitz, who whine on and on about how things once were and OMG out of LGBT people gay men have had it the WORST!-which isn’t even true. Old queens like yourself have dementia and are professional complainers just like Miss Larry Kramer.

      “The young people on here tell us in so many words that we are irrelevant. I guess we are.”

      Apr 1, 2012 at 12:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dave
      Dave

      @So true!: Your right. I’ll be be quiet. Sorry bout that.

      Apr 1, 2012 at 2:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dave
      Dave

      @Matt: Ok. Thanks

      Apr 1, 2012 at 2:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Hunter
      Hunter

      @MikeE:

      If you read Dave’s wife Amelia’s post, it’s quite obvious the the boy understands what “gay” means, he is identifying himself that way, and they are supporting him in being who he decides he is.

      Amelia also notes quite clearly that this may not be the last word on his orientation — that things may change as he gets older. That doesn’t matter. The point is, his parents love him no matter what.

      Apr 1, 2012 at 5:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason

      You’re trying to impose a a fixed political paradigm – which is what “gay” is – on a child. It’s disgraceful. I don’t think many of you care about the child’s welfare. You’re faking your concern so that you can get a cheap shout-out for your political gay cause.

      I’m all for accepting the child. It’s great. But many of you are imposing an adult’s politics on him. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

      Apr 1, 2012 at 6:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Marcos
      Marcos

      I agree with you Jason. I’ve seen people do this way too much with kids who it’s unknown if they are LGBT or hetero, or even youth who do know or are out as being LGBT.

      Apr 2, 2012 at 11:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Honestly
      Honestly

      This kid has no clue if he’s actually gay or LGBT at all. I agree with others he’s way too young, and he could always wind up being bisexual, trans, or even hetero. Wait until he’s actually into puberty and has matured and then we’ll talk. It sounds as though these parents want their kid to be gay and many other people seem to want this as well when he’s just a kid and doesn’t know about his sexuality or sexual orientation whatever it is, like an adult or teenager does.

      Apr 3, 2012 at 12:32 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ben
      ben

      @jason: Please, when I was 8 I looked guys like The Face from the A-Team and Sully from Dr Quinn Medicine woman and I knew.

      Apr 3, 2012 at 4:25 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • mike
      mike

      @jason: so I guess u are saying you dont no u are gay untill later in life ……..

      Apr 3, 2012 at 9:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Michael W
      Michael W

      @jason: That’s just dumb. Little girls and boys get gender-oriented toys and no one complains about that – why? Gender orientation happens early and not at some ‘age of sexual maturation’ – perhaps you are referring to an age when the physical act of sex is appropriate. This is not the same thing as sexual orientation.

      May 18, 2012 at 12:33 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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