Last time we checked in on Dan Choi’s free speech case against the White House, the judge and Choi’s legal defense team both agreed that Obama had used “vindictive prosecution” against Choi—that is, the government singled Choi out and gave him a harsher punishment than usual just because he repeatedly chained himself to the White House fence in protest of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.” In response, government prosecutors said that “vindictive prosecution” defenses could not be used in this trial because such defenses have to be entered during pre-trial motions and not during the trial, as was done in this case.
They’re right actually, but perhaps sensing that the “vindictive prosecution” defense won’t fly, Choi’s lawyers have filed 59-page legal brief that basically compares what’s happening to Nixon’s Watergate scandal. The only problem—they’re nothing at all alike.
The Washington Blade explains why the comparison fails:
[According to the brief,] “the paper trail of this government persecution of Lt. Choi led – like the Watergate tapes snaked their way back to President Nixon – directly to President Obama himself, who was/is not only personally opposed to gay equality, but was, as the self-described legacy of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., deeply humiliated by being criticized by Lt. Choi and others for enforcing discriminatory laws (like “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell”) against gay Americans”…
[Choi’s lawyer] has argued that a chain of e-mails between former gay White House aide Brian Bond; the U.S. Park Police, who arrested Choi at the protest; and the Secret Service indicates that the White House may have been involved in orchestrating the prosecution. But no evidence has surfaced to show Obama was aware of the e-mails, and prosecutors say the charging decision was a legitimate, legal action made by Park Police.
Basically, Choi’s lawyers screwed up by not thinking of this defense earlier and now that the prosecution has filed a “writ of mandamus” asking a higher court to deny the tardy defense, they have resorted to a heretofore baseless comparison between Obama and Tricky Dick.
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
It ain’t gonna work, boys. And calling the President a 70s era crook ain’t gonna help things either.
Michael
I wonder how many more times Choi is gonna get in hot water. Chaining himself to things continuously is also going to the extremes it makes gays look insane.
Mark
I used to have SO much respect for Dan Choi, but every time he talks these days that respect goes down. Sad.
delurker
His lawyer is either incompetent or has absolutely no client control.
Kurt
I used to think someone should sit down with Choi and explain how his antics hurt more than help. Now I am convinced that the last thing we need is him “helping” Obama. PLEASE, Dan, stay right where you are — totally outside real lgbt activism.
FreddyMertz
@Michael & Mark. Totally agree!
MikeE
Seriously, if Dan really likes being handcuffed to things, maybe he should find himself a boyfriend?
mark
Choi may be a mic hog or whatever, but he is right about this being a vindictive prosecution.
Queerty does this story a disservice by not putting this prosecution alongside the Obama administration’s unprecedented war on whistleblowers.
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/02/25/whistleblowers
The reality is that Obama may be OK on gay rights but his record on civil liberties is appalling. He’s even worse than George W. Bush.
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-turley-civil-liberties-20110929,0,7542436.story
Over all, I’ll be forced to vote for Obama because he’s the lesser of two evils. But, the lesser of two evils is still not great. 🙁
Little Kiwi
I have frustrations with both Choi and Obama. I also respect them both. I don’t agree with either of them on their tactics, yet at the same time I can’t help by at least (to some degree) *understand* where each is coming from.
tis is a funny situation, eh?
PS
Whether we like his antics or not, I do believe that the numerous protests against Obama (like Choi’s and like ones at pro-Obama fundraisers or rallies) HAS had an impact. MLK didn’t just sit behind his laptop and write to his legislators or rant on various LGBT websites. He was a radical that motivated people to demand change from their government and from society. He spoke up and was hated by many. He was hated so much that eventually he was assassinated. But, a movement was seen. The discrimination what occurring became more public. If LGBT individuals want faster change, we need to speak up. Yes, it needs to be legal and mature. But, it still needs to be taking a public stand, not just silent and accepting the status quo of the lack of LGBT equality. When it comes to people standing up for LGBT rights, only a few names are nationally recognized by the LGBT community. Otherwise, we rely upon lawsuits by a few, for society to slowly change, rants, etc. Like I said, I think that these protestors DO bring these LGBT issues to the surface. These are the people taking RISKS for civil rights.
steve
There’s taking a stand… and then there’s obvious attention seeking.
I smell an upcoming book deal..
Spike
And now we all get to see Miss Choi’s true colors, and it’s not red, white and blue, nor pink. Wonder how long before Rachel stops having him on her show?
Cam
@Kurt: said…
“I used to think someone should sit down with Choi and explain how his antics hurt more than help.”
________________________
Gee, lets see, a few years ago there was no talk of getting DADT repealed. Obama’s White House said there would be NO repeal at the current time. Choi Starts chaining himself to things, and we get grass roots protests, sit in’s in Pelosi’s offices which make her force a repeal down the White House’s throat and funny enough, now We have a DADT repeal. Oh yes, he really hurt us.
This is the typical line from the HRC bots. Remember, they were the same people trying to tell people NOT to file lawsuits for gay rights because it might upset people, and not to protest or pressure our “Friends” in Congress. That we should all sit back and do nothing.
If we had done that DADT would still be in place.
oldgayvermonter
@Cam: Well said, Cam. I can’t figure out what all the dissing of Dan Choi is about. Been reading everything on his various protests and can’t see where all the hate comes from. Mention his name and the bots have a hissy fit every time. But that’s just my opinion…I loved most of what Act Up did too. HRC was prob hating on those guys big time! I’d love to see a platoon of Chois down on Wall Street…see if the brown (sorry, they wear white) shirts would dare throw him some peppa-spray love.
the crustybastard
MS. GEORGE: Okay. I just want to know if the Court is considering the issue of selective prosecution/vindictive prosecution as a theory of the defense or will the Court–
JUDGE FACCIOLA: I decline to answer that question on the ground that I have answered it innumerable times. I have explained to you — once again, the defendant during his testimony yesterday explained to us that he did engage in certain behavior in March. He engaged in similar behavior in April. He engaged in what he believed was similar behavior in November. In March and April he was treated in a certain way. In November, he was treated much more harshly in his view and he insists that that was done vindictively. It was done to single him out and to punish him for the exercise of his First Amendment rights.
That is not selective prosecution in the traditional way. But is articulated by reference to the Fifth and 14th Amendments where there is an issue whether there is a different treatment among people who fall within a protected class. So that all the people who are of a particular race are treated one way and all the people of a different race are treated another way is a more subtle application of the principles of equality of treatment guaranteed by the Fifth Amendment.
Under that principle, it is impermissible for the United States to differentiate among people and the manner in which it prosecutes them on the basis of the speech they have stated.
The defendant’s position is: I said something in March, I said something in April and I said something in November. The reason I was treated in November differently from the March and April is, by November, I began to offend the United States by what I was saying to the point that they treated me differently; and therefore, my rights under the First Amendment and the Fifth Amendment were violated.
Now whether you call that selective prosecution or vindictive prosecution or Bermuda onions is of little moment to me. What I’ve tried to do is articulate the constitutional basis that underlies the defense. And that constitutional basis is that it is impermissible for the Government of the United States to treat people differently on the basis of what they have said.
jeff4justice
Instead of bitching about Dan or any other visible activists all the time how about focus on how YOU can make things better for LGBT folk in your own way. Maybe we’d make progress faster if we bitched less at eachother and more at the real enemies of equality.
Michael
@jeff4justice:
That comment was so constructive considering how you are basically BITCHING at anyone that has a different opinion then you do about Dan.Hypocrite much?
tjr101
Ok, wait! Since when is the comparison of Dan Choi with the likes of Martin Luther King Jr became a legitimate one to make?
MLK was humble and had a lot more trials and tribulations in his time, he lost his life doing so. Dan Choi has served his country no doubt, but he comes off as an obnoxious media whore more than anything else.
Cam
@tjr101: said…
“Dan Choi has served his country no doubt, but he comes off as an obnoxious media whore more than anything else.”
_______________________
And that is basically what bigots were saying about MLK when he was marching.
Kev C
Actual testimony from the trial:
MR. KENT: May I reply, Your Honor?
THE COURT: No, you may not because I’d like to say, first of all, I am in this case wearing two hats that I always wear when I’m the finder of fact. I’m wearing the hat of the finder of fact, what happened here and have you established the defendant’s guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. I am also handling the legal hat on which I am compelled to rule on the issues of law that emerge.
—
Sounds like an ass hat to me.
the crustybastard
@Kev C:
The judge is annoyed, justifiably, by the government’s seeking of an extraordinary writ to “go over his head” to get an appellate court to agree that he’s abused his discretion.
The government has accused a citizen of a crime. That is a gravely serious matter. A criminal defendant should be allowed to make his case in the way he chooses by putting up any legal defense he feels is justified. The defense’s strategy should not be determined by the prosecution.
The government is trying to stack the deck here, and railroad a guy — that is wrong regardless of how you personally feel about Choi.
tjr101
@Cam: Ah wrong Cam, Dan Choi ain’t nothing like MLK no matter how you twist it. Dan Choi does cocktail parties and media events as well as the honchos at HRC.
Cam
@tjr101: said..
“Ah wrong Cam, Dan Choi ain’t nothing like MLK no matter how you twist it. Dan Choi does cocktail parties and media events as well as the honchos at HRC.”
__________________________________________________
Don’t try to change the conversation. I said that what you said about Choi is the same thing that people were saying to attack MLK. IF you don’t like the comparison that isn’t my problem. Fact of the matter is, he got attention, he had connections at CNN so that whenever some anti-gay bigot was saying something they brought him on for comment. He got arrested etc…
tjr101
@Cam: He got arrested and what? He gets out of jail and heads for a camera? Thousands of other activists get arrested everyday for a cause but never seek the publicity Choi desires and now that DADT is history his rants seem even more desperate. Getting arrested doesn’t make you noble and Dan Choi was not the driving force in getting DADT repealed.
Kurt
@Cam:
Check your datebook. At the time Choi was engaging in his little stunt (Nov 15, 2010), Obama had already delivered 1) House passage of repeal; 2) passage of repeal by the Senate Armed Services Committee, and; 3) Senate floor consideration of repeal. At time time of Choi’s juvenile actions, repeal was being fillibustered by the Senate Republicans. Far from doing nothing, Obama already had the ball on the 10 yard line while Choi was protesting him rather than the Senate GOP.
As for Dr. King, he went to jail because of his heroism. He didn’t do stunts and then cry like a baby when they actually arrested him. Choi is a clown.
Cam
@tjr101: said…
“@Cam: He got arrested and what? He gets out of jail and heads for a camera? Thousands of other activists get arrested everyday for a cause but never seek the publicity”
________________________________
We weren’t talking about OTHER activists, we were talking about MLK! And to claim that he never went on TV or got publicity is idiotic. That is how he got his message across. The march on Washington was a massive amount of publicity for the cause rained down on the American public that forced them to face what he was advocating.
Cam
@Kurt:
ONce again, the amount of anger you are spitting is out of proportion. The HRC bots see Choi stepping on their playground.
You are claiming that OBAMA moved the ball to the 5 yard line. THAT is how I know you’re an HRC bot. Everybody else knows that Obama was actually an impediment originally. The White House STATED that there would be no repeal that year. IT was grass roots pressure on Congress and THEN Pelosi that forced the repeal to be voted on in spite of White House objections.
Merely agreeing not to veto something doesn’t make Obama a hero and yet you want to give him much much more credit than any of the activists. Your agenda is showing.
Little Kiwi
you gotta love the legions of people who complain about Lt. Dan Choi from the cushy confines of their “never once did anything proactive for LGBT Equality” lives.
Jperon
Party before people! That’s the slogan isn’t it, Daniel? I’m personally sick of people who pander to the Democratic Party and Obama and give them passes where they don’t deserve them. There are plenty of people who follow the policy of putting the good of the Democratic Party ahead of gay people themselves. And I consider that shameful. Choi is right. The problem with the comparison is that the fraud and harm of Obama’s “stimulus” packages is much greater than Nixon’s harm. Nixon had the decency to resign, while Obama seeks a second term. The harm Nixon did was relatively short term, while Obama’s will have long term consequences. Nixon got us out of a war while Obama put us into a new one and continued two others that he promised he would end, and hasn’t. Nixon lied to American citizens. Obama just had one assassinated without a trial and with secret evidence that only the government knows about, but which was never seen by a judge. His administration has deported more people from the US than previous ones. His people said they would prosecute medical marijuana and yet they continue to ratchet up federal raids. He has repeatedly lied.
Obama needs to go. This doesn’t mean that the Republicans should win, they aren’t very good either, except Gary Johnson who is pretty decent. But Obama is a disaster and deserves one term status. I had hope he would be good in some areas but he’s been a disappointment. What we need is a middle-of-the-road party, one that is socially liberal and fiscally sound. Neither the Republicans represent the vast middle anymore.
Little Kiwi
can you then suggest specifically whom people should vote for in the next election, JPeron?
If you believe Obama should be a “one term President” then who will you be voting for? And if the reality comes down to it being Obama or a Republican, who will get your vote?
BobC562
Well, first the trial judge allowed the defense to be used. Second, writs of mandate are very rarely considered, let alone granted. Rather, the appellate court could simply deny the govenment’s writ and consider it on appeal. So the mere fact that a writ petion’s been filed isn’t so much of a big deal.
That said, court’s aren’t all that keen on hyperbole, and this reaches new heights. I really think Choi needs to just move on. He was effective when he spoke on an even keel. Now, however, it’s really kind of embarassing for him and for us. But mostly him.
BobC562
@the crustybastard:
thanks for posting the transcript. It makes a lot more sense now. I think the government’s got a big hill to climb via the writ process.
Michael
@Little Kiwi:
You really just need to stfu already.You make TRUE activists look like shit period especially with your hypocritical behavior and attitude mr high and mighty. Lets hope no activists are associated with you otherwise it will only make them look bad by association.
Zack
Thank you for your efforts Mr.Choi, but please go away, your embarrassing now.
Cam
@Michael: said…
“You really just need to stfu already.You make TRUE activists look like shit period especially with your hypocritical behavior and attitude mr high and mighty. Lets hope no activists are associated with you otherwise it will only make them look bad by association.”
__________________________
You’ve been on many different threads and you don’t seem to make statements about the subject, you just seem to continually attack Little Kiwi. Why are you bringing your personal issues onto the board?
Michael
@Cam:
First of all do you have any humility whatsoever? I didn’t think so.Not my fault though only yours.
Oh and as far as the thing that is Kiwitheblowhard is concerned he’s just like a majority of you here long winded arrogant always talking down to people as if they are beneath you so pardon me if I remind SOME very rare decent people here about that truth.
I do not seem to make statements about the subject? Apparently you were too busy trying to think up some witty snarky comment to notice that I have indeed posted on numerous subjects on this site with passion vigor and committment to what I believe in.But you can feel free to keep kissing up to someone who cares far more about words then they do about people.Yes Ive met Kiwis type for years I know all about his kind nothing remotely decent about people like him.That’s my story and I am sticking to it.
I call your attention to look above also and you will see that I did indeed post on this specific topic and it was all relating to Choi… in the beginning that is.
Kurt
@Cam:
I’m not angry a bit. I’m thrilled Choi is right where he is — outside of any serious policy or political work. He’s a twerp, but nothing to get angry over.
And I have no relation, membership, contribution history or other connection to HRC.
Give Pelosi and the congressional Democrats the credit if you wish. The point still remains that on the date Choi was protesting at the WH (Nov 15, 2010), the only thing obstructing repeal of DADT was the Senate Republican fillibuster. He picked his target at what would get him personal attention, not what was obstructing DADT repeal. Like I said, he’s a twerp.
Cam
@Kurt: said…
“Give Pelosi and the congressional Democrats the credit if you wish. The point still remains that on the date Choi was protesting at the WH (Nov 15, 2010), the only thing obstructing repeal of DADT was the Senate Republican fillibuster. He picked his target at what would get him personal attention, not what was obstructing DADT repeal. Like I said, he’s a twerp.”
______________________-
Obama merely agreeing to not veto the DADT repeal, AFTER fighting to not have it come up, forcing Rep Alcey Hastings to pull back the first incarnation of the bill AND inserting extra time delay hurdles to it, does not qualify him as a hero in this situation.
Cam
@Michael:
So to prove that my comment was wrong…where I said that you don’t post on topic, all you do is attack other people on here and name call….you wrote an entire post attacking and name calling me. Wow, completely un-self aware aren’t you.
As I said before, you probably shouldn’t bring all of your personal issues onto a posting board.
Michael
@Cam:
Uhh this also applies to your ego.You know nothing about me little boy no matter how many times you pitifully try to psychoanalyze me.I suggest you take a lesson in learning how to be a humble human being if you are even remotely capable of even accomplishing that task that is.
You’ve said enough and none of it was true.By all means continue though im not here to inflate people like you and that things ego though so kindly find someone else who will do that job for you.
Yawns.Once again I direct you to the very top where you LIED and claimed I dont stick to the subject of posts.The proof is in the pudding I do indeed stick to the topics at hand I just at times let er rip at people whose egos are the size of Texas.It gets tiring having to even put up with people like you in that regard god forbid anyone ever disagree with your kind otherwise they are made fun of mocked belittled and put down automatically.Theres that EGO thing I was referring to you are not better then me so please do not look at me as if I was beneath you.I know your type well enough to know this is a true fact and remains true.
Cam
@Michael:
And again, to argue against my point that you don’t spend all your time on here attacking and name calling, you have now responded with multiple posts attacking and name calling.
And a quick hint, typing “Yawn” actually doesn’t mean you’ve yawned. Pretending to be bored is silly when you’ve spewed that much venom and used that many insults in a post.
So again, you are completely un self aware.
Michael
@Cam:
Are you a psychologist ? Are you a rhodes scholar? You are neither so I suggest you stop while you are ahead and yes you are boring me thats exactly why I wrote I was yawning.I was realistically rolling my eyes at your delusions of grandeur actually but you are indeed boring me. Once again humility check into that word and understand its definition .
Cam
@Michael:
And again, to try to prove that you don’t do what I said…you did exactly what I said.
You keep claiming you are bored, but you keep posting replies regular like clock work. Sorry, but people that are bored don’t bother to keep posting.
Once again, you are completely un aware of yourself.
Michael
@Cam:
Get a grip already moron.It is a little something called a RESPONSE.Bored or not that is the only thing I have been doing here is RESPONDING TO YOU.Lose the ego already you do not know me nor how I think period.Ugh revolting person.
Kurt
@Cam:
While I might respectfully disagree with your description of President’s role, it seems you are not disputing my point that Choi’s November 15th stunt was closer to a child’s temper tantrum than serious political action. Again, at the time of the stunt, the action was with the GOP fillibuster.
Cam
@Michael: said..
All you are doing with your temper tantrums is showing me that not only aren’t you bored, but that I am so important in your world that you have no choice but to get angry and stamp your feet at every single word I say.
Cam
@Kurt:
No Kurt, actually you are inventing a conversation that did not happen. What I said was:
Obama merely agreeing to not veto the DADT repeal, AFTER fighting to not have it come up, forcing Rep Alcey Hastings to pull back the first incarnation of the bill AND inserting extra time delay hurdles to it, does not qualify him as a hero in this situation.
I made no comment about Choi. You are creating that in your own head.
Michael
@Cam:
LOL omg another one who thinks too highly of themselves.Seriously do hypocrites like yourself even KNOW what humility IS? Do I need to get you a dictionary little boy and point it out to you? Rolling eyes Anyways little boy do NOT ever speak to me as if I am a child .Nice lie btw arrogant one I have not had a temper tantrum here Im 30 years old Im an adult not a child.So I suggest you not only lose your ego I also suggest NOW you get over yourself and stop assuming that you have me pegged.Thank god you do not know me here much less in real life and if you think you know someone based on a few comments online then you are severely deluded beyond words.Run along now child I won’t have someone treat me with condescension and patronizing attitudes period.
Cam
@Michael:
And once again, I write a few words and you write long responses, another temper tantrum. Nice of you to let me know just how important I am to you. How sad and again, unself aware you are.
Kurt
@Cam:
Well, that’s close enough that we can be in concord and harmony. We respectfully disagree about the President and you are not taking issue with my observation that Choi’s stunt is one of a silly twerp.
Cam
@Kurt: said…
Hi Kurt,
I feel that the movement needs people out in front to get the attention. Remember, CNN, NOW calls Choi about gay rights, when they used to call MAggie Gallagher or Joe Solomnase.
Cam
@Michael:
And again, thank you for letting me know my importance in your life.
Michael
@Cam:
You are not important to me in anyway shape fashion or form loser.This is once again called a RESPONSE look the goddamn word up already and stop bothering already.I am not here to inflate your ego for the last damn time ugh.Get over yourself seriously.
Michael
@Cam:
stop bothering me already I mean.
Cam
@Michael:
Two responses to one sentence. Again, thank you for proving that I seem to be the center of your existence.
Michael
@Cam:
Uhh no you’re not you are just attempting to throw your superiority off on me like your kind always does.Im also on the phone at the minute so can you keep your haughty ego to a minimum and a get a life already? Thanks a bunch go away already im flagging your comments for harassment as well because that is exactly what you are doing now.
Cam
@Michael:
Another response, just to let me know that I am the most important thing in your world right now. Thanks.
Michael
@Cam:
Flagged again and reported you are harassing me now you loser.
Michael
@Cam:
My father was the most important thing in my world btw.He died in July.Flagged again.
Little Kiwi
Hey Cam! 😀
Cam
@Michael: said…
“Flagged again and reported you are harassing me now you loser.”
_____________________
You have name called and all I did was point it out. Flag me all you want. I have violated nothing, you on the other hand have been nothing but insulting and continually proving just how important I am apparently because you seem to think of nothing else.
Michael
@Cam:
What I think about is my father A LOT you arrogant sorry representation of the gay community.I suggest you get over yourself already.Just look at you you are treating me like a child as if I am your little experiment as if you are trying to prove something about ME when you only prove less and less about YOURSELF.Once again flagged you are indeed harassing me you moron because you will not leave me alone that IS harassment.Looks like you are the one OBSESSED with me this lowly little commoner is not obsessed with you in the least I dont even know you and DONT WANT TO KNOW YOU period.My final comment to you unless you would like to continually be flagged until you get kicked off this site permanently.Your decision hope you make the right one.Finally get some humility you definitely do not have a trace of that you’re like someone else here in that area gee wonder who that could possibly be? 😀
Cam
@Michael:
You’ve attacked Little Kiwi, you’ve called me moron and a host of other names, you keep claiming you are being harassed and yet continually talk and talk and talk to me. Just to put it in perspective for you….
If somebody files a restraining order against another person claiming that they are harassing them, it becomes void if THEY contact that person.
So you claim I’m harassing you and yet….you certainly keep on talking to me. If we go by word count, you’ve spoken to me probably about 5 times as much as I have spoken to you. You’re like the girl who claims she hates some boy and to prove it she talks about nothing else but him.
I just keep wondering how many times you can respond with insults and attacks over and over even though you claim to not care about what I say.
Michael
@Cam:
Let me guess YOU never do any wrong? I thought so.I will once again point out a word YOU know nothing about which is HUMILITY.
You are also one to talk you have been treating me this entire time as if I am stupid beneath you and your pathetic little experiment.Well Im not all I have been doing this entire is RESPONDING to you.You are the one pathetically trying to attempt to psychoanalyze me and I do not care one iota what you think to begin with.Ive said this plenty of times I despise your kind you make gay americans look horrible especially with your arrogant egotistical haughty behavior.You claim I have attacked people and you are full of shit because I know I havent.I accept responsibility for my actions but many of you NEVER do probably because in your ego filled minds NONE of you ever think you could possibly do any wrong.
How pathetic as I said thats the problem with your kind no humility no class no decency in any of you.Good luck with that hope you grow some of those things before you die.
Hilarious also that you are here attempting to defend someone who has mocked the death of my father my social anxiety disorder my boyfriend my long distance relationship my life in general and also has told people to go hang themselves here.You are just as hypocritical as he is.Look in a mirror you are the problem here not me and until you are capable of not trying to talk down to me and treat me with respect you will never get any from me period.Im not a girl either so dont even try that pathetic arrogant crap with me as if you have me pegged.No you don’t I definitely have YOU pegged though you’re transparent as it can possibly get.Flagged again.