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Did Our Threats Really Convince Democrats to Announce Their DADT Repeal Timeline?

USREPORT-US-USA-FED-AUDITS

“I don’t know whether it’s some desire on the part of some in the community to claim that they caused things to happen that were going to happen anyways so they can get credit for it.” That’s Rep. Barney Frank to reporter Kerry Eleveld, insisting all along that Democratic leadership always planned on repealing DADT next year, via the Defense Department budget reauthorization, and that news of such a plan didn’t bubble up this month because the gays were getting louder and angrier (and stingier) than usual. Meanwhile, that repeal deadline is far from “hard,” and for being an “open secret,” nobody is the gay press seems to have been talking about it. And HRC, the one organization you’d expect to be aware of (and/or promoting) this strategy, hasn’t told anyone about it. But Eleveld insists: “Quite honestly, this strategy has been sort of an open secret on the Hill for the past month or two — bandied about by activists, lobbyists, and Democratic aides alike. But until this week no Congress member had spoken of it on the record — or at least not that I was aware of.”

By:           editor editor
On:           Nov 17, 2009
Tagged: , , , , ,
  • 53 Comments
    • Cam
      Cam

      Oh give me a break, Frank just doesn’t want to admit that he isn’t in complete control. Every other timeline and plan is annouced, but supposedly they all kept THIS a secret? They may be figuring out that after left leaning voters in NJ and VA unfortunatly stayed home it may be time to shore up their base instead of people like Frank calling us whiney children and basically telling us to go fuck ourselves.

      Nov 17, 2009 at 11:17 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sam
      Sam

      I’m so over Barney Frank. He’s become a complete shill for corporations and politics-as-usual.

      Nov 17, 2009 at 11:25 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian
      Brian

      Today ENDA was postponed. Repealing DADT and DOMA are pipe dreams. Why is this so hard for the LGBT Community?

      THE VOTES ARE NOT THERE! THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN THERE!

      Nov 17, 2009 at 11:26 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Chuck
      Chuck

      I knew about the plan to end DADT next year; they did’t put it through now because the votes weren’t there, and we’d be in the same situation we’re in now because Clinton tried to pass something without the votes being there. Maybe you guys should watch some news shows? Rachel Maddow and Keith Olbermann are good and right on top of things!

      Nov 17, 2009 at 11:37 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      I figured the Democrats would throw us a DADT bone right prior to reelection time, suckering us in again, without really having to do away with something difficult, like DOMA.

      I still contend that the real power rests with the Supreme Court. Palin would likely appoint a twisted family member to the bench, Mitt would appoint a judge with magic underpants, and Huckabee would appoint a share holder of FOX NEWS. Yeah, we are over a barrel, with no wine to show for it.

      John Paul Stevens asked for fewer legal assistants this year (ominous) and Ruth Bader Ginsburg had pancreatic tumors removed from her gizzards, (also ominous and tragically sad as well), so abandoning the DNC now, just to prove we can, seems shortsighted.

      We’ll need to work with what we’ve got. I kept a Honda Accord for 22 years. Margie never passed her smog checks. The DNC won’t pass theirs either. Patch, patch. Money, money. and away we go.

      Nov 17, 2009 at 11:52 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Austin
      Austin

      Yesterday I was phoned by a Texas democratic solicitor working from past donation records, requesting I once again give to help elect Democrats in the upcoming election.
      I responded that yes, I gave to Obama, and I talked him up to friends, and wore his tee shirts, and was happy he won….
      and since, they have collectively ignored gay issues.
      I told them, we elected them to a majority in the House,
      a majority in the Senate, and gave them the White House,
      and in return they have done NOTHING on our issues,
      and until the democrats quit taking my votes and my money
      for granted, My Pocketbook Is CLOSED.

      Nov 17, 2009 at 12:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Rich
      Rich

      If Rep. Frank were actually on the House Armed Services Committee and had any influence whatsoever on the defense authorization bill that he claims will end DADT then I would give him an ounce of credibility on his announced “timeline.” The truth of the matter is that he holds no power over legislation forwarded out of the HASC, so his repeal plan holds no water until Rep. Ike Skelton, who chairs HASC, says that DADT will be included in next year’s defense bill.

      I would also be very skeptical of any plan that would involve a Congressional vote to repeal DADT within one month of the 2010 mid-term elections. For people that don’t follow the annual defense budget issues, it is common for the defense authorization to be approved in Sep/Oct of each year. Do we really think our cowardly representatives in Congress are going to cast a vote for gay rights before their critical elections, particularly if the economy remains shaky and voters seek to oust incumbents?

      I’ve also noted that the proposed Senate hearings on DADT for the “Fall” have yet to take place. I’m not surprised. The only Senator talking about them was Sen. Gillibrand of NY — a freshman senator with no power to set any sort of legislative agenda.

      It looks like we’re kicking the can further down the road on DADT. To keep our 65,000 gay and lesbian servicemembers in the business of telling lies to hide who they are is deplorable.

      Nov 17, 2009 at 12:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      No. 4 · Chuck said…
      I knew about the plan to end DADT next year; they did’t put it through now because the votes weren’t there, and we’d be in the same situation we’re in now because Clinton tried to pass something without the votes being there. Maybe you guys should watch some news shows? Rachel Maddow and Keith Olbermann are good and right on top of things!
      __________________________________

      Oh give me a break, If the votes aren’t there, then bring it up for a vote and LET US SEE WHO VOTES AGAINST REPEALING DADT. Congress isn’t like the Supreme Court, if a vote fails that doesn’t mean that it’s locked in stone. Keep bringing it up and let us see which Dems we need to run primary opponants against.

      Yeah, over 70% of the population supports getting rid of DADT and yet the votes aren’t there. Give me a break. The Dems have been the party of not doing anything for so long they can’t seem to take a stand on anything. Thank Goodness Lyndon Johnson didn’t worry about politicis when he signed the civil rights legislation, even though he knew it would kill the Dems in the South for decades. I’m sick of them protecting the bigots in the party by refusing to bring up votes. Oh, more likely, they are just too afraid that Glen Beck might say something about them and hurt their feelings if they bring up any gay rights issues.

      Nov 17, 2009 at 12:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • macca
      macca

      Frank needs to go

      Nov 17, 2009 at 1:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • edgyguy1426
      edgyguy1426

      Has he always been this crotchety? He reminds me of those two old muppet guys up in the balcony. He should start to practice sayin “Get off my lawn” for his impending retirement

      Nov 17, 2009 at 1:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ctprep
      ctprep

      It’s called the Democrats need gay money (campaign donations) to maintain their majority in both houses of Congress.

      Nov 17, 2009 at 2:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • plutarch
      plutarch

      I think he’s evil.

      Nov 17, 2009 at 3:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian NJ
      Brian NJ

      Did you see the administration is promising to the illegal immigration community that he will take care of their rights before the 2010 midterms? Senator Schumer told the NY Times that they will get it on his desk on whatever timeline the president desires. Non-citizens before vets. Nice.

      http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/14/us/politics/14immig.html?scp=2&sq=immigration%20reform&st=cse

      Nov 17, 2009 at 3:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Josh
      Josh

      The LGBT Community is delusional. There are not enough YES votes for LGBT issues. Just because you have a Democratic President it DOES NOT mean he can tell fellow democrats how to vote. They do not support LGBT issues because of religious beliefs. Obama can’t override “God.”

      Wake up.

      Nov 17, 2009 at 4:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • detournment
      detournment

      I’m under the impression, and I source history, that proceeding any hyper-liberal government comes fascism…So I wonder where this country will be soon…Didnt 2008 seem like a really great year to be Gay in the Media and Public? There is def a backlash going on. I’m not surprised really.

      Nov 17, 2009 at 4:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Austin
      Austin

      Can’t the president (Commander in Chief) order the Pentagon
      to cease all DADT Courts Martial with an Executive Order ?

      Nov 17, 2009 at 5:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      No. 14 · Josh said…
      The LGBT Community is delusional. There are not enough YES votes for LGBT issues. Just because you have a Democratic President it DOES NOT mean he can tell fellow democrats how to vote. They do not support LGBT issues because of religious beliefs. Obama can’t override “God.”

      Wake up.
      _________________________________________

      Josh, funny, I don’t see anybody saying that we can’t outlaw wife beating because the Koran allows it, or that we cannot give blacks full equality because the Book of Mormon deemed them to be unequal. So please knock off using the religeous excuse. The Dems need to call a vote, if it fails, well then at least we will have the names of every single Dem that voted against us and we can start donating to any primarly opponant they have etc…

      Nov 17, 2009 at 6:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • FakeName
      FakeName

      Yes, the President (through the Dept of Defense) can issue a stop-loss order to halt discharges. Papa Bush issued one during the first Gulf War. Several lesbian servicemembers were retained through the conflict only to be discharged when it ended.

      Nov 17, 2009 at 6:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Steve
      Steve

      I find it interesting that each protest has been followed by politicians throwing us a bone. And, in each case, it is pretty obvious that it was hastily arranged. So far there has been no meat on any of those bones. And, so far, each of those bones has been followed quickly by a kick in the face. The score is still zero.

      I do not believe Mr. Franks assertion that the DADT repeal was already planned to be in the Defense Appropriations bill next year. I think they came up with that line after the “Dont Ask Dont Give” protests started. But here’s the important part: It is still just a promise. They have not yet actually repealed DADT. My promise remains: No more money until after that happens.

      We have been giving money to Mr. Frank for a lot of years. He has not yet produced anything for us. Nothing but promises.

      I used to support politicians who made promises on gay issues. Now, I support incumbents who actually vote for our issues.
      And, I support challengers of incumbents who fail to actually vote for our issues.

      Nov 17, 2009 at 6:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      Is Barney Frank starting to look more and more like Larry Bud Melman?

      http://www.spencersundell.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/larry_bud_melman.jpg

      Nov 17, 2009 at 7:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Attmay
      Attmay

      I never gave one dime to this fat yammering political hack, and I still consider myself overcharged.

      Make 2010 the year of ABD: Anybody But Democrats.

      Nov 17, 2009 at 7:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Josh
      Josh

      @ Cam:

      You said: “The Dems need to call a vote, if it fails, well then at least we will have the names of every single Dem that voted against us and we can start donating to any primarly opponant they have etc…”

      We already know. There are only 54 Senators in favor of DADT Repeal. Less for DOMA repeal. ENDA can’t pass the Senate either. The Hate Crimes Bill didn’t “pass,” it was attached to the Defense Budget. There has never been an LGBT Bill that has passed the US Congress. Never.

      Stop denying that it is the religious beliefs of the elected officials OR the number of their constituents that make religion important. That is exactly what it is.

      If you have another explanation for the NO-to-LGBT votes – please share.

      Nov 17, 2009 at 10:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • dontblamemeivotedforhillary
      dontblamemeivotedforhillary

      Barney Frank is the new Roy Cohn! Advocate magazine is a leaflet insert in crappy Out magazine so is hardly omnipresent. This is a worker’s equal rights issue, also!

      Nov 17, 2009 at 11:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Josh
      Josh

      For Cam and the other apologists for religion:

      Religion & LGBT Issues – Members of the 111th US Congress:

      Mormon (13) 100% Anti-LGBT
      Seventh Day Adventist (2) 100% Anti-LGBT
      Presbyterian (48) 75% Anti-LGBT
      Protestant (45) 75% Anti-LGBT
      Baptists(73) 74% Anti-LGBT
      Methodist (53) 74% Anti-LGBT
      Christian Scientist (3) 67% Anti-LGBT
      Lutheran (23) 61% Anti-LGBT
      United Church of Christ (5) 60% Anti-LGBT
      Episcopalian (40) 56% Anti-LGBT
      – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
      Eastern Orthodox (8) 50% Anti-LGBT
      Catholics (161) 43% Anti-LGBT
      Unitarian Universalist (3) 33% Anti-LGBT
      Jewish (44) 14% Anti-LGBT
      Unaffiliated (9) 0% Anti-LGBT
      Buddhist (2) 0% Anti-LGBT
      Quaker (1) 0% Anti-LGBT

      The entire Congress is 57% Anti-LGBT,
      but the Senate is 65% Anti-LGBT (the big problem).

      For those of you that believe Democrats are ALL on our side, the truth is 28% of Democrats are Anti-LGBT (88 of the 317 Democrats in the 111th Congress).

      Most of the Democrats that are Anti-LGBT are from States where at least 60% of their constituencies make religion “important.”

      Most of the Democrats that are Pro-LGBT are from States where less than 60% of their constituencies make religion “important.”

      If either the politician makes religion important, or the constituents (+60%) make religion important, they will be Anti-LGBT.

      Sen. Kennedy was very Pro-LGBT. In the State of Massachusetts only 48% make religion important. He was one of many Catholic Pro-LGBT politicians from States in New England and the Northeast that DO NOT make religion important.

      In places where religion is important – we’re screwed./i> It’s that simple.

      Nov 17, 2009 at 11:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Rainfish
      Rainfish

      The GLBT community should focus on a massive, nationally organized, effort to put GLBT money into a truly LIBERAL third party. Just look how that asshole Lieberman (who ran as an Independent) has Harry Reid’s balls in his pocket and how Lieberman is controlling everything in the Senate with his Insurance Lobbyist Campaign Contribution driven “I’m just voting my conscience” bullshit song and dance routine on Capital Hill.

      Just a ten percent makeup of liberal Independents in the House, as well as a few well-placed liberal Independent Senators here and there, could act as very influential powerbrokers in order to get GLBT legislation passed.

      As Independents they could caucus with either Republicans or Democrats while turning one rat against the other rat seeking control of Congress. And, in a closely divided congress, they could shift control back and forth, at will, if their asses aren’t properly kissed in the fawning manner Sen. Lieberman demands today in the Senate from his limp dick Democratic colleagues.

      Break the strangle-hold of the fucking two party system. Outside of the remote possibility of an all encompassing pro-GLBT U.S. Supreme Court ruling unambiguously applying each of the principles of the 14th Amendment to all of our freedoms, then a third party is the only way we are going to advance our civil rights in these un-United States.

      The Battered Wife Syndrome relationship that the GLBT community has with the self-serving DNC is getting really, really old. If you truly want the DNC attention, then stop voting for the douche-bags in the party who do not fully support our civil rights nor represent our interests.

      Unless you’re into a lifetime of humiliation, bondage and bootlicking, then please just stop the fucking madness at the ballot box and break free of the HRC/DNC Pied Piper’s song which has had too many of us slow march, like pliant little Lemmings, off the cliffs of our own disillusionment.

      Nov 17, 2009 at 11:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • dontblamemeivotedforhillary
      dontblamemeivotedforhillary

      Barney Frank is the new Roy Cohn! Advocate magazine is just a leaflet insert in crappier Out magazine so how can they remain omnipresent?

      Nov 18, 2009 at 12:00 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Josh
      Josh

      RainFish Said: “Just a ten percent makeup of liberal Independents in the House, as well as a few well-placed liberal Independent Senators here and there, could act as very influential powerbrokers in order to get GLBT legislation passed.”

      How could you influence or broker anything LGBT-related, when it is religion that defines their positions on LGBT issues? What do you have you can trade with their “gods?”

      Religious beliefs are non-negotiable.

      Nov 18, 2009 at 12:03 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • WillBFair
      WillBFair

      The votes aren’t there for many of our issues. But they are there for others, like domestic partnership. That was a huge concession by the public. We should have been dancing in the streets.
      Instead, why did we demand marraige in hick California? Why didn’t we go for domestic partnership when the polls showed we could win? Why couldn’t we have built momentum after the public was used to domestic partnership law? And why did we waste mountains of cash on a party in DC?
      The answer to all these questions is that our strategy is still controlled by self righteous halucinators and victim complex people.
      We need serious strategizing to outflank the bigots and overcome our weakness in numbers. The victim complex crowd aren’t up to the task.

      Nov 18, 2009 at 12:17 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Rainfish
      Rainfish

      NO. 26 JOSH wrote: “How could you influence or broker anything LGBT-related, when it is religion that defines their positions on LGBT issues? What do you have you can trade with their “gods?”

      ———————————————————–

      Rainfish responds:

      …uh, maybe because we offer VOTES…MONEY…ACTIVISM? In some large metropolitan areas Gays make up to 16% of the Democratic Party electorate. Just like Blacks are only 13% of the population but in many urban areas they comprise a 30% or more voting block. And in a close election, which can be decided by three or four percentage points, I’d say our votes count…and count BIG — especially in national elections.

      Why else would lying politicians in the DNC whore themselves to the GLBT community; holding out HOPE like candy to a hungry child while later, after elections, offering us striped rattle-snakes painted like candy canes for us to hopelessly grab onto in payment for our deluded loyalty and for our misguided votes? Would they even bother to lie to us if our votes weren’t important and necessary for them in the first place, eh?

      The ONLY power most of us have (besides running for public office ourselves) is in withholding our support for those politicians who betray us or to vote “en masse” for a third party alternative. That’s it!

      And a lot of liberals (Gay and Straight) are fed up with the DEMS. A third party option is essential to getting things moving forward. The two party system is like having both wheels stuck in the mud. We’ll never get out of this rut unless we have another wheel in motion.

      PS: By the way…fuck religion, most of politicians are “Christians of convenience” and not by conviction.

      Nov 18, 2009 at 12:59 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Rainfish
      Rainfish

      I guess it’s just that ol’ uppity fag in me that sure enuff wont go sit at that there separate lunch-counter with them other house homos.

      ————————————————————–
      In response to No. 27 • WillBFair comment: “Why didn’t we go for domestic partnership when the polls showed we could win?”

      —————————————————————

      Damn, why didn’t Martin Luther King just ask for prettier separate drinking fountains (Hmmmmm…water taste the same doesn’t it) and cleaner segregated restrooms for Black folk (good enough if the crapper works) …so why not, eh? Could pride…self-respect…and a refusal to submit to injustice have anything to do with it? Maybe just a wee little bit?

      Rather inconvenient isn’t it that so many in the GLBT community are refusing to be a “reasonable” little oppressed minority by not throwing in the towel and waving the banner of surrender to the bigots and just admit: YOU’RE RIGHT, WE AINT GOOD ENOUGH TO BE TREATED EQUAL! … now, praise the Lord and kick us in the ass for Jesus one mo’ time.

      Yep…let’s just make it official!

      BTW, you can always move to a state that has a DP if you really want one. Personally, I am legally married and I’m not about to trade that in for a piece of shit-paper which says that I am “officially inferior” to those homo-hating, sub-human troglodytes who all need to stop polluting the gene pool with their putrefaction.

      Bottom Line: They can try to pry my marriage license out of my cold (carefully manicured) dead hands before I capitulate to these miscreants and Bible-Nazis.

      Nov 18, 2009 at 1:51 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Rich
      Rich

      It’s telling that we see the shift in discussion to gay marriage rights in a thread originally about DADT.

      The gay community will continue to throw resources and lobbying effort down the drain in losing state-by-state referendums on gay marriage. It’s a strategy that is destined to fail and the end result will be a handful of states that allow gay marriage, a handful that allow civil unions, and a majority of states that allow no equality at all.

      The strategists that lead our gay political activists need to get their act together and realize the need for wins on the federal level that provide immediate 50-state recognition for gay rights. A repeal of DADT is an immediate win for LGBT rights in all 50 states. Ending DADT will accelerate acceptance of gays and lesbians in broader society and assist in the achievement of other goals, including marriage rights. Many gay and lesbian activists I talk with believe DADT only impacts a handful of the LGBT community and isn’t deserving of the bulk of their lobbying effort. They’ll continue to chase the gay marriage rabbit down the hole for the next 50 years — and politicians will only be too happy to use the marriage issue as a wedge to generate campaign interest and divide the electorate. Meanwhile, Rep. Frank knows he can continue to kick the DADT can further and further down the road because there will generally be no backlash from the bulk of the gay community that sees the issue as not applicable to their own personal rights. These short-sighted activists couldn’t be more wrong.

      Nov 18, 2009 at 6:52 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Rainfish
      Rainfish

      Yes, by all means repeal DADT first (ENDA, DOMA, Federal Workers Partnership Rights and all that “other” stuff can wait). After all, we know that Congress can’t walk and chew gum at the same time. We all know that there is just ONE single congressional committee and that ONE super committee handles everything…every bill that eventually comes before congress. …Yep…uh huh…sure.

      At last count, Congress divides its legislative, oversight, and internal administrative tasks among approximately 200 committees and subcommittees. You think that there might be room for our legislative considerations and proposals in one or two or…dare I say…three of those committees, eh?

      Yes, Congress can handle and work on more than just one civil rights bill at a time. So next we demand that the people we put into office then vote on those bills. No support for us, then no support from us next election day. Simple as that. No excuses.

      Although, actually it would make more sense (and accomplish the same task as multiple bills) if they just amended the 1964 Civil Right Act and added GLBT Americans to it.

      ————————————————————-

      In response to #30 Rich who wrote: “The gay community will continue to throw resources and lobbying effort down the drain in losing state-by-state referendums on gay marriage. It’s a strategy that is destined to fail and the end result will be a handful of states that allow gay marriage, a handful that allow civil unions, and a majority of states that allow no equality at all.”

      —————————————————————

      Yes, we will end up with a patchwork quilt of laws relating to same-sex marriage equality until the US Supreme Court inevitably hands us our own version of Loving -versus- Virginia which,in 1967,finally struck down bans on interracial marriage. Our day will come too.

      The worse the Supremes could do would be to uphold this nutty unequal status quo — which I doubt. The Supremes already ruled in Romer -vs- Evans, in striking down Amendment Two in Colorado, that animus alone against a disfavored minority cannot justify unequal treatment under the law nor a disenfranchisement of that minority’s constitutional protections.

      So, whatever they milk for legal precedence (or setting precedence) in order to finally assert that homos too have a birthright of equality as American citizens, I’d say history still weighs heavily on our side.

      The rest of the evil Morlocks in America can then go back to devouring each other and leave the GLBT community alone to bring that special magic to the world…which is us.

      Nov 18, 2009 at 9:03 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Republican
      Republican

      Despite public opposition to it, I don’t think that DADT will be repealed near an election, so if it’s going to be repealed at all next year, it’ll be very early in the year, but I just don’t see that happening. My prediction is 2011 at the earliest.

      Nov 18, 2009 at 9:14 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Rainfish
      Rainfish

      Mmmmmm…I think maybe it passes next year. That is, if Congress really does attach it to another military spending or re-authorization bill just like they did with the Hate Crimes bill this year. It makes sense. After all, it puts the Republicans again in the untenable position of voting against US Military appropriations and it will make great campaign ads as well as excellent talking points to use against them in election 2010.

      I can hear it now: “Congressman Whomever voted against sending much needed arms to our brave young soldiers serving overseas because he loves discrimination against other patriotic young men and women in uniform more than protecting our nation, and our children, from terrorists who are still plotting to destroy our great country.”

      …”snap” …”snap” …take that beeeeatch.!

      …hehehehe. I’d love to see that ad.

      ============================================================
      In response to #32 Republican who wrote: “Despite public opposition to it, I don’t think that DADT will be repealed near an election, so if it’s going to be repealed at all next year, it’ll be very early in the year, but I just don’t see that happening. My prediction is 2011 at the earliest.”
      =========================================================

      Nov 18, 2009 at 9:58 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Josh
      Josh

      RainFish said: “The ONLY power most of us have (besides running for public office ourselves) is in withholding our support for those politicians who betray us or to vote “en masse” for a third party alternative. That’s it!”

      Maybe that’s your view of the world, but not for most of us. We are not at the mercy of “politics” we can actually get off our asses and do something.

      If you want to change something, you have to do it yourself. That goes for all of us. For 50 years we’ve been changing politicians, instead of changing our minds. If all we ever do to create equality is try to pick the “correct” politician – we’re fu*ked for another 50 years.

      The LGBT Community needs a strategy to create our equality. We haven’t accomplished much is 50 years. We need some new ideas and new leadership.

      Nov 18, 2009 at 10:09 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Republican
      Republican

      “The LGBT Community needs a strategy to create our equality. We haven’t accomplished much is 50 years. We need some new ideas and new leadership.”

      OK, hold the fucking phone. I agree that many LGBT leaders suck, but what is this about accomplishments in the past 50 years?

      I wasn’t alive 50 years ago, but I know enough history to know that this is pure BS. A little over 50 years ago, you had Alan Turing. Today you have gay marriage legal in several states and countries. No, we haven’t accomplished much.

      Nov 18, 2009 at 10:28 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TimNCGuy
      TimNCGuy

      @JOsh,

      If we already know there are 54 senators in favor of repealing DADT, that’s ALL WE NEED.

      We need 60 votes to stop a filibuster, not to win the final vote. And, we need a president to do what he said and be the “fierce advocate” and use the “bully pulpit” to knock some heads in the senate to get the 60 votes to stop a filibuster. Then the 54 who support repeal of DADT can vote for the repeal.

      How have we gotten into the mode of EVERY bill in the senate needing a 60 vote majority to get past a filibuster? The dems ought to be much more effective in using the repugs constant filibuster threats against them. As I recall it was the repugs who were always screaming about wanting “up or down” votes….

      Nov 18, 2009 at 11:16 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian NJ
      Brian NJ

      Obama bots love to swallow Rahm’s full load: we don’t have the votes! Be patient! Rome wasn’t built in a day! Obama only signs the bills, he doesn’t write them! On and on, excuse after excuse. BULLSHIT. When O’Fuck-n-blab-orama wants a bill on his desk, he gets it. He uses MUSCLE and sets TIME LINES.

      LOOK — WATCH — as he is promising to get immigration reform done BEFORE THE MIDTERMS! Civil rights for non-citizens, before civil rights for veterans! No. We are not drinking the fucking kool-aid about his powerlessness any more. He gets the bills when he wants them, period. Proof? Make a list of all the grand, expensive, controversial and enormous bills he has signed or is about to sign, and just ask yourself how come two simple repeals are not on his desk.

      Nov 18, 2009 at 11:29 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      No. 24 · Josh said…
      For Cam and the other apologists for religion:
      _______________

      Are you psycho? I said that we need to have them vote so we can find out who the hell is against us and get them voted out. I also said “Josh, funny, I don’t see anybody saying that we can’t outlaw wife beating because the Koran allows it, or that we cannot give blacks full equality because the Book of Mormon deemed them to be unequal. So please knock off using the religeous excuse. The Dems need to call a vote, if it fails, well then at least we will have the names of every single Dem that voted against us and we can start donating to any primarly opponant they have etc…”
      …Which basically says that there are a lot of cracy beliefs out there, and I don’t hear ANY member of congress saying “hey lets legalize wifebeating because the Koran says it!” As I pointed out, Gay issues are one of the few issues that everybody is giving them a pass on due to their religeon, my response was to say fuck that, they need to stop using their religeon as an excuse and get off their sorry asses and vote. So just how was that being an apologist for religeon? You may want to read a post before you attack somebody for it.

      Nov 18, 2009 at 1:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • alan brickman
      alan brickman

      saying “the votes aren’t there” is the politically correct excuse to hide the bigots names who would vote against equal right for gays on any issue….

      Nov 18, 2009 at 4:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • alan brickman
      alan brickman

      the votes are there for the ones who threw us under the bus either…

      Nov 18, 2009 at 4:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Rainfish
      Rainfish

      Earlier I wrote: “The ONLY power most of us have (besides running for public office ourselves) is in withholding our support for those politicians who betray us or to vote “en masse” for a third party alternative. That’s it!”

      ———————————————-

      In response Josh wrote: “Maybe that’s your view of the world, but not for most of us. We are not at the mercy of “politics” we can actually get off our asses and do something.”

      ———————————————–

      Uh huh….

      ….And then Josh goes on and gives us no idea what this mysterious “other” ability is that we have that takes us “off our asses” and into a new realm of influence over American hillbilly lawmaking.

      Do tell, Josh, what is this panacea that you have in mind? Who are the “most of us” in this majority of “us” who are not subject to the whims of politics and to the machinations of politicians who control and regulates every legal facet of our lives — as well as the legal rights and protections regarding our relationships?

      Oh, Josh, please share. Outside of the judiciary (which we have little influence over), what magic forces can we tap into which gets us “off our asses” and into a position where we can “actually do something”.

      Sorry, all we hear is empty rhetoric from you. If you have no real plan to offer then don’t criticize the more pragmatic among us who know that when it comes to law-making it’s not like bread which you can bake at home on your own.

      Nov 18, 2009 at 5:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • WillBFair
      WillBFair

      I think we also have the votes for rights in the military, or at least a majority of public opinion. It figures. They’ll certainly let us fight and maybe die for the country.
      The point is, since the public support this, and we should ponce on it as well. Wins on domestic partnership and military service would give us momentum, change the public perception of us as responsible members of society, and make it harder to deny us other rights.
      Just a thought.

      Nov 18, 2009 at 6:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • WillBFair
      WillBFair

      Oops. That’s pounce, as in, ‘For three cents I would pounce on Aaron Ekhart.’

      Nov 18, 2009 at 6:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Joe
      Joe

      honestly, barney frank means nothing anymore…. he’s just another politician which means he has more loyalty to himself than the gay community at large…. we need gay politicians who are actually going to do something besides patronizing us

      Nov 18, 2009 at 10:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Josh
      Josh

      @ Rainfish:

      Do your homework. Two-thirds of Americans believe in equality. See if you can figure out what that means.

      Nov 18, 2009 at 11:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Rob Moore
      Rob Moore

      The votes might not be there at the moment, but I see no evidence that anyone including Barney Frank is working to get more votes. If Congress repeals DADT it will be due to some political advantage for the politicians including Frank. It won’t be due to any empathy for fags like us.

      I might have to change my stance and agree that there is no real difference between the elephants and donkeys. The difference is the same as the difference between incompetence and ineptitude.

      Nov 19, 2009 at 2:29 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Rainfish
      Rainfish

      @ Josh, you really need to start using common sense for a change.

      ————————————————————-
      In response to #46 Josh wrote to Rainfish: “Do your homework. Two-thirds of Americans believe in equality. See if you can figure out what that means.”

      ===========================================================

      @ Josh…

      OK…so, why don’t you get off your butt then Josh and drive those “Two-thirds of Americans (who) believe in equality” to the polls on election day? Just like the Republicans who troll for votes in nursing homes, maybe you can go around to colleges and load your “Two-thirds of Americans (who) believe in equality” up on rented buses and then head for the nearest ballot boxes.

      Or get those “Two-thirds of Americans (who) believe in equality” to start a massive letter writing campaign to their local congress person(s) in support of us. Now, after you learn to do your own homework, and stop lecturing other people to do theirs, you can start to get busy on that.

      By the way, giving what seems to be the politically correct answer on surveys and then actually doing something about it, when you (meaning the heteros) don’t really have a dog in that civil rights fight, are two different things. Again, do your own “homework”, Josh.

      See if you can figure out what that means — or maybe you don’t believe in anything beyond the candy canes and sugar plums Santa Pollster puts in your head. The Gallop Poll doesn’t mean a fucking thing if those “Two-thirds of Americans (who) believe in equality” don’t actually get out and vote for you with their uh… heartfelt… “convictions”.

      Perhaps then you might understand why we lose every state referendum on same-sex marriage equality after you claim so very many heteros really and truly support us.

      Now, quit bitchin’ and warm up that bus!

      ….Round them up …get ‘em out…rawhide!!! eeeeha!

      Nov 19, 2009 at 4:17 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • AxelDC
      AxelDC

      Money talks; Dems glimpsed 2010 without gay cash and began to realize that maybe DADT really was a priority after all.

      Nov 20, 2009 at 7:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian
      Brian

      @ Republican:

      You said: “I agree that many LGBT leaders suck, but what is this about accomplishments in the past 50 years? Today you have gay marriage legal in several states.”

      Wow, 5 States have marriage equality – after 50 years and billions of dollars.

      Tell Jorge Steven López Mercado how much progress we’ve made.

      Nov 23, 2009 at 7:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Josh
      Josh

      @ RainFish:

      Buses, huh? That’s the best you can do?

      I’ll give you a D- and encourage you to take your homework more seriously (and your Blog, too).

      Nov 23, 2009 at 7:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian
      Brian

      We don’t have enough votes to pass anything, including ENDA.

      DADT and DOMA Repeals are no longer even a consideration.

      Nov 23, 2009 at 11:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bunny Snuggles
      Bunny Snuggles

      Regarding No. 51 and that ‘tard, JOSH,

      Rainfish is brilliant, and so is his blog. On the other hand, you, Josh, are a moron and a bore. Although, I’ll be more generous to you than you were to dear Rainfish, and I’ll give you an A+ for flatulence of the brain.

      Dec 7, 2009 at 7:17 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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