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Did This Trans Woman Break Texas Law By Not Using A Men’s Restroom?

Last Wednesday Houston police arrested a transgender woman — identified by ABC13 by her biological name Nathanial Tyrone Moore — on charges of “knowingly entering a restroom of the opposite sex” at a public library. Jesus. Arrested and forced to spend two nights in jail for going the loo.

Time for Texas Attorney General Gregg Abbott to decide whether Houston’s expanded anti-discrimination executive order, signed by lesbian Mayor Annise Parker, is compatible with existing state law. Which should be just wonderful news for you queers, given Mr. Abbott’s not-so-exemplary history upholding attempts to end discrimination.

Moore plead guilty to the charges, likely to avoid the costly (and embarrassing) legal challenge.

By:           JD
On:           Nov 24, 2010
Tagged: , , , ,

  • 57 Comments
    • Dino
      Dino

      What the fuck is a biological name?? Also, the title of this article should be “Did This Trans Woman Break Texas Law By Using A WOMEN’s Restroom?” because that’s what the story… is.

      Nov 24, 2010 at 1:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kev C
      Kev C

      If she went into the Men’s bathroom, would she also have been arrested? Or just harrassed?

      Nov 24, 2010 at 1:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Pitou
      Pitou

      Jesus H. Queerty…

      DO YOU EVER PROOF READ YOUR FUCKING POSTS??

      She was arrested for using a Womans restroom… Not a Mens restroom. Do YOUR damn job, and report the facts.. Dumbasses.

      Nov 24, 2010 at 2:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • gina
      gina

      Yet another Queerty trans FAIL. Incorrect headline and referring to a trans woman by her birth name.

      “JD”, whoever you are, do us a favor and don’t presume to report trans-related stories in future. Better yet, how about actually putting your name on this garbage and taking responsibility for it.

      Nov 24, 2010 at 3:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DC Steve
      DC Steve

      Echoing what everyone else has said, this is shamefully bad reporting. These types of stories (and trans politics in general) are important, they are often literally a matter of life and death for the trans people involved.

      Please, Queerty, put in that extra effort to get this stuff right. It’s important.

      Nov 24, 2010 at 4:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • j
      j

      Just wanted to added my voice to the chorus of queerty fail. I really didn’t understand this story until I read the comments. In trans stories a pronoun can make all the difference and also, just because non gay news outlets use her biological(??) name, doesn’t mean we have to. We should know better. This really isn’t acceptable and I hope the author reads these comments.

      Nov 24, 2010 at 6:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Benjamin
      Benjamin

      Well someone clearly messed up the headline. But I’m not convinced this is some kind of intentional plot to to devalue the humanity of the trans community. It looks more like a simple editorial error. Cut these guys some slack. They put out an impressive and heavily updated web site with what has to be a pretty small staff. Though they should probably fix the mistake. It is confusing.

      Nov 24, 2010 at 7:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • kyals84
      kyals84

      Here’s a thought, actually do some work and try Googling this incident. THE VERY FIRST result has her REAL NAME. See journalist usually try to find the real facts. The other LGBT sites found her real name for reporting on it, *maybe* you should too?

      You have no right to apply a different name to her. Her name is not legally the name you used in the story. She doesn’t use it. No one does. Don’t. A ‘birth name’ has no purpose. It’s arbitrarily given to a baby by parents. It serves only as a label and if someone -changes- it then their new name is THEIR NAME, and that old one?- it is now garbage. How dare you use it. Pathetic >.>

      Oh if you care, her name is Tyjanae Moore..

      Nov 24, 2010 at 8:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dave
      Dave

      Since when did this site become so “Bilerico” You can’t swing a dead cat round here without offending some trans person.

      Nov 25, 2010 at 2:58 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cristan
      Cristan

      I’m personally working with Ms. Moore through the transgender center in Houston, TX.

      Even if the executive order was non-existent, this was never an arrestable offence. She should never have been booked into the jail system. Texas law states that a member of one sex can’t enter the restroom of another sex without *permission*. The Mayor of Houston gave trans folk explicit permission.

      HPD and the Houston library system have launched their own investigations into how this illegal arrest and detention took place.

      Ms. Moore plead guilty to the false charge based on legal advise given by a jailhouse guard who told her that she could get out of the male-jail by pleading guilty. The TG Center has already set up Ms. Moore with a free lawyer to deal with this injustice.

      David Wlech is a moron and the briefing he sent to the Texas AG is a joke. He didn’t cite one case law to support his argument; it’s nothing more than biblically-based circular reasoning and the same old arguments that all hate groups make about queer people.

      Nov 25, 2010 at 10:43 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sweetbrandigirl2004
      sweetbrandigirl2004

      @Cristan: @ Christan I think you are incorrect the mayors change in the non discrimination policy ONLY covers cities workers not individual citizens. This person is guilty for breaking Texas law concerning bathrooms…oh and I find it completing amazing that Texas even has a law addressing public bathroom use…only in Texas

      Nov 25, 2010 at 11:04 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Samuel
      Samuel

      My goodness, look at all the deranged tranny thugs so upset over the use of this tranny’s real name. I thought we were supposed to transcend the gender binary, or whatever bullshit gibberish you people preach in order to justify your GID. But when Queerty refers to this tranny as Tyrone, suddenly you are all up in arms. You all are clearly “gendering” the name Tyrone, forgetting that there are no male names and no female names, just as there is no such thing as male and female. Shame on all of you for not adhering to the bullshit that you push on the rest of the world.

      Nov 25, 2010 at 12:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tori
      Tori

      @Samuel: Your a joke dude.

      Nov 25, 2010 at 1:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Zoe Brain
      Zoe Brain

      @Dave: I dunno… maybe about the time it stopped being acceptable to call people n1ggers and w3tbacks… Stop being offensive, and people stop being offended.

      Nov 25, 2010 at 3:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Russell
      Russell

      @Zoe Brain: Dave is right. What we have here is not a group of people who object to a well-known epithet that is being used with the intent to offend. We have a group of people whose objective is to be offended as often as possible by as many words, phrases, and acts as possible. Being offended gives their lives meaning and it gives them power, because so long as they are offended, they are in the position of making demands, presenting grievances, and casting judgments.

      I think Dave’s reference to Bilerico stems from an outrageous incident last year. A gay guest columnist, a well-spoken older gentleman who was writing in from Asia, dared write about a “trans” issue. He made clear that he respected trans people, supported full civil rights for trans people. He went on to question whether surgical change was wise or necessary, if one believes that gender is a social construct.

      The man was berated, slandered, and abused for weeks. He was compared to a murderer. His column was compared to the Holocaust. Eventually, Bilerico censored the column, cutting it out of the site, but leaving the bizarre and unhinged attacks on the author. The author was made an unperson and banished from the site.

      This is the true face of trans activists. Nasty, unstable, vindictive and lacking in civility and a sense of proportion. Gays and lesbians made a terrible mistake when we tied our name and our identity to such people, 90 percent of whom probably qualify for involuntary commitment to a mental institution.

      Nov 25, 2010 at 9:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tori
      Tori

      @Russell: Those are huge generalizations, but hey, as long as you can look down on someone.

      Nov 25, 2010 at 10:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • kyals84
      kyals84

      I’ll just follow up…

      @Russell

      We get angry about improper name usage and similar acts since it happens All The Time. Why should we stand by while others do not respect our identities in the least? Anyone calling a trans person by a different name or gender is not an ally. Kinda simple.

      When we get upset we are told we are unreasonable? People should not use false names for others. That’s simple. If you think it is unreasonable for me to be upset that someone would refuse to use the actual current social & legal name of a trans person, then I really don’t know how to talk to you. This is not a unreasonable thing to expect of others, nor is it unreasonable to be upset when people choose to not do it.

      @Samuel Well you are clearly trolling but I will respond to you..

      Ok first I’ll be fair and equal to your comments.. you called us tranny.. so should I just call you fag I guess since *apparently* this is now ok to do? Lets clarify something, she isn’t -transcending- a gender binary or using a name name.. she is VERY clearly living as a woman. Her name isn’t the so called ‘real name’ you said.. that isn’t her real name since her real name is the name she uses legally, socially, etc. There is only one name tied to her in any official or personal sense and it is Tyjanae Moore. Using any other is a clear act to be disrespectful and to erase her identity / paint her as being “really a man”. Go back to your hole and be hateful outside of our thread on trans news if you got nothing nice to say.

      /signed a queer trans woman who is tired of people’s identities being treated like a big game

      Nov 25, 2010 at 10:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sweetbrandigirl2004
      sweetbrandigirl2004

      ou people need to pay more attention to what was said the reporter told you this person GOES by the name Tyjanae Moore that’s NOT their legal name and that why when he/she was booked into jail they were booked under their real or legal name Nathanial Tyrone Moore as such he/she is a male. It doesn’t matter what he wants to pretend to be or what he choices to live his life as. I also would have you know that just because he/she choices to live as a women doesn’t mean I you or society as to accept him/her as a women. This person has ZERO medical evidents that they have any kind of condition that would necessitate them living as female. They have given NO reason why they should be allowed to break Texas law and enter a female restroom….other then the same old Tran gender cry we always hear “I feel like a women inside” well hells bells if I decide I feel like a pilot inside is the Air Force going to let me fly an F15. Sorry but I’m not one to accommodate this person delusions. They can pretend to be whomever they want but in doing so they must accept the troubles that comes with it.

      Nov 26, 2010 at 10:11 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kev C
      Kev C

      @sweetbrandigirl2004: The problem with your diatribe is that society doesn’t have a legal right to know what gender or sexual orientation she is. The right to privacy is an innate human right.

      Her legal name is just the name registered at birth with the government. Society doesn’t need to know her legal name any more than they need to know her social security number or her medical indentifical numbers, which are personal.

      Nov 26, 2010 at 10:55 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sweetbrandigirl2004
      sweetbrandigirl2004

      @Kev C: Why do you wish to compare apples to oranges ? SSN# and medical ID # aren’t gender specific as a name is in our society names carry sexual and gender overtones and therefore what ones legal name is or what one choose to call ones self is very much in to public interest if one wishes to live in and interact with society. WE are a gendered society meaning we have very different ways of treatment for each gender and thus which gender one is WILL determine how they are to be treated as well as what is expected of them for them to be a functioning part of society. Thus your diatribe that is is none of societies busy what his/her gender Identity or legal name is is false. While I agree this persons as well as any other persons sexual orientation is a private matter and has no bearing on their ability to function in society and therefore should be kept pvt.

      Nov 26, 2010 at 11:17 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kev C
      Kev C

      @sweetbrandigirl2004: Do you like the music of Brian Warner or Vincent Furnier? Most people don’t recognize those names for Marilyn and Alice. Because WE are also a transgendered society. So yeah, cram it.

      Also, a diatribe is a long bitter rant, something I rarely do.

      Nov 26, 2010 at 11:54 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sweetbrandigirl2004
      sweetbrandigirl2004

      @Kev C: WOW ! Thats a deep come back “Cram it” lol if thats the best argument you can come up with then you’d better give up…oh and weren’t not also a transgender society as much as you and those like you would like to cramp your third gender down our throats weren’t not buying it…there are two genders and your junk determines which one you are that’s life and no amount of whining or bitching is going to chance that….if you want to be accepted as the other gender then have a sex change you’ll find a lot less resistant from society.

      Nov 26, 2010 at 12:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kev C
      Kev C

      @sweetbrandigirl2004: Whatever, but since when is it YOUR business what type of privates people have? Who made you Privates Inspector? Organ monkey.

      Nov 26, 2010 at 1:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • counterpoll
      counterpoll

      Poor Sweetbrandigirl: the great state of Texas failed to teach her spelling, grammar, or thinking skills. Her church failed to teach her the Golden Rule. Her parents failed to teach her about manners.

      Every time Brandigirl gives an opinion, Baby Jesus weeps.

      Nov 26, 2010 at 3:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tori
      Tori

      @sweetbrandigirl2004: Have you ever heard of intersex people? Gender isn’t just something as simple as you try to make it. Why not learn a little something about the subject your arguing against before you make yourself look like an ignorant bigot.

      Nov 26, 2010 at 5:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • missanthrope
      missanthrope

      “I think Dave’s reference to Bilerico stems from an outrageous incident last year. A gay guest columnist, a well-spoken older gentleman who was writing in from Asia, dared write about a “trans” issue. He made clear that he respected trans people, supported full civil rights for trans people. He went on to question whether surgical change was wise or necessary, if one believes that gender is a social construct.

      The man was berated, slandered, and abused for weeks. He was compared to a murderer. His column was compared to the Holocaust. Eventually, Bilerico censored the column, cutting it out of the site, but leaving the bizarre and unhinged attacks on the author. The author was made an unperson and banished from the site.”

      You’re talking about Ronald Gold, and yes he basically slandered trnas people in every way that you describe and more. Guess what? He deserved every little bit of it. What occured would be just like Tony Perkins or any other arch-homophobe going on any popular gay blog and saying that gays molest childern, screw dogs, or have black masses with the devil. It was that inflamitory where he said that trans people are hyper-sexual, delusional and sick people. It wasn’t a “difference of opinion”, it was a slanderous piece of hate speech and Ron Gold (who was not Asian, but an experience gay activist) got exactly what he deserved. Fuck him and fuck whoever supports his hate speech.

      Nov 26, 2010 at 11:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sweetbrandigirl2004
      sweetbrandigirl2004

      @Tori: Inter sexed people have nothing in common with transgender people……..and even inter sexed people have a male or female sex designation. Gender has been simple for over 2000 years their males and theirs females and that’s it period end of story….You can pretend or play make believe of create anything you like but at the end of the day their still going to be only males and females.

      Nov 27, 2010 at 12:03 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dave
      Dave

      I don’t care if he is a trans person or not…CD, TV, TF…whatver…he is ugly as hell. Sorry, but she should have used a little common sense and held it cause Ms. Thang ain’t fooling no one. Somebody that looked like that using the Ladies room would cause alarm. Sorry trans people, but many of you born male who “feel” like a lady. You just can’t pass, but if that floats your boat more power to you, but people will stare and gawk. That’s your burden to bare. I don’t feel like you should be part of the the LGB community because I have nothing in common with you trans people.

      Nov 27, 2010 at 3:17 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Zoe Brain
      Zoe Brain

      @sweetbrandigirl2004:
      Obviously you haven’t met many IS people.

      The majority identify as male or female; a significant minority identify as neither.

      Nov 27, 2010 at 9:25 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Zoe Brain
      Zoe Brain

      @Dave:
      How soon the transphobes forget….

      http://www.queerty.com/butch-lesbian-files-white-hot-discrimination-suit-20071009/

      I agree that you have nothing in common with trans people. Your stereotyped swishy-gay white male petty spite is something only a minority of Gay “Men” exhibit – but enough to give the rest a wholly unfair bad name for vapid shallow malice.

      Nov 27, 2010 at 9:31 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Zoe Brain
      Zoe Brain

      @missanthrope:

      I have a commitment to free speech, and don’t think Ron Gold should have been censored – just engaged in dialogue.

      Hence our 7-part conversation on-line at my blog, starting at http://aebrain.blogspot.com/2009/12/ron-gold-on-transgendered-dialogue.html

      Some of the words of his post were straight out of the Family Research Council playbook:

      I would, however, get after the doctors – the psychiatrists who use a phony medical model to invent a disease that doesn’t exist, and the surgeons who use such spurious diagnoses to mutilate the bodies of the deluded.

      Hence the pitchfork-and-torch routine. I instead attempted to show not only that he was wrong, but why. Evidence. Facts. Logic.

      It’s rather long, but you may find it worthwhile to read it.

      Nov 27, 2010 at 9:45 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Zoe Brain
      Zoe Brain

      @Russell:
      This is the true face of trans activists. Nasty, unstable, vindictive and lacking in civility and a sense of proportion. Gays and lesbians made a terrible mistake when we tied our name and our identity to such people, 90 percent of whom probably qualify for involuntary commitment to a mental institution.Are you sure you’re not a member of Focus on the Family?

      See my previous post – where I engaged with Mr Gold in a civil debate on the issues. The mere existence of those articles doesn’t just undermine your thesis – it explodes it.

      such people, 90 percent of whom probably qualify for involuntary commitment to a mental institution.

      Nothing Nasty, unstable, vindictive and lacking in civility and a sense of proportion there is there? Ever hear of the psychological term “projection”?

      Nov 27, 2010 at 10:05 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sweetbrandigirl2004
      sweetbrandigirl2004

      @Zoe Brain: Well I would hope that the vast majority of intersexed people would identify as either male or female since the vast majority of the world either identifies as male or female. as for the significant minority that identify as neither like so often happens in our world they get overlooked same thing happens in the medical field. Patients who have some unheard of sickness often don’t get the treatment they need as no one has bothered to work on a cure for their rare decease. Also Intersexed people have a medically diagnosis condition that can be proven it isn’t a something that is taken at face value like the transgender people would have everyone to believe. They say the “Feel” like a women inside and were simple suppose to believe them that they are or were mean to be women…pleaseeee like most people I’m a realist and as such require proof.

      Nov 27, 2010 at 1:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Steve
      Steve

      Hey, I only “feel” gay, but I can’t really be gay, because it’s not something that makes sense biologically!

      Nov 27, 2010 at 8:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Zoe Brain
      Zoe Brain

      @sweetbrandigirl2004:

      They say the “Feel” like a women inside and were simple suppose to believe them that they are or were mean to be women…pleaseeee like most people I’m a realist and as such require proof.

      MRIs good enough? Autopsy results perhaps?

      Male-to-female transsexuals show sex-atypical hypothalamus activation when smelling odorous steroids by Berglund et al Cerebral Cortex 2008 18(8):1900-1908;

      Male–to–female transsexuals have female neuron numbers in a limbic nucleus. Kruiver et al J Clin Endocrinol Metab (2000) 85:2034–2041

      Sexual differentiation of the human brain: relevance for gender identity, transsexualism and sexual orientation. Swaab Gynecol Endocrinol (2004) 19:301–312.

      A sex difference in the human brain and its relation to transsexuality. by Zhou et al Nature (1995) 378:68–70.

      A sex difference in the hypothalamic uncinate nucleus: relationship to gender identity by Garcia-Falgueras et al Brain. 2008 Dec;131(Pt 12):3132-46.

      Etc etc. That good enough for you?

      Here’s a good summary of what we know from diagnostic imaging, autopsies, animal experimentation and observation of Intersexed people. From
      Sexual Hormones and the Brain: An Essential Alliance for Sexual Identity and Sexual Orientation Garcia-Falgueras A, Swaab DF Endocr Dev. 2010;17:22-35

      The fetal brain develops during the intrauterine period in the male direction through a direct action of testosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hormone surge. In this way, our gender identity (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and sexual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. However, since sexual differentiation of the genitals takes place in the first two months of pregnancy and sexual differentiation of the brain starts in the second half of pregnancy, these two processes can be influenced independently, which may result in extreme cases in trans-sexuality. This also means that in the event of ambiguous sex at birth, the degree of masculinization of the genitals may not reflect the degree of masculinization of the brain. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender identity or sexual orientation.

      Nov 27, 2010 at 9:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sweetbrandigirl2004
      sweetbrandigirl2004

      @Zoe Brain: Transsexuals and transgender are two entirely different groups of individuals….most “TRUE” trnssexuals follow the soc and have a diagnosis for their condition …were as most transgender do not they self diagnosis and then self transtition never having seen a doctor or a counselor for anything.

      Nov 27, 2010 at 11:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ewe
      ewe

      @gina: If your feelings are hurt then just say so.

      Nov 28, 2010 at 12:37 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • kyals84
      kyals84

      @sweetbrandigirl2004:

      Most transsexual go through their doctors for hormones after spending months up to years proving through therapy (and tons of money spent) they are trans. Many therapist deny people access to hormones entirely after long periods of time. This is not a system that easily facilitates access to the hormones.. in fact most people do not want trans people to get medical support and it is a uphill battle in general. However the majority of transsexuals are diagnosed since doctors will not prescribe hormones / watch blood work / give the necessary medical care unless they are. I am not clear what point you are trying to make?

      There is no “transsexual vs true transsexual” split. People are simply either transsexuals (living as the gender opposing from assigned at birth possibly with the use of hormones and/or surgeries), or people are not trans (usually referred to cis in trans discussions for lack of a better term) and living as their gender assigned at birth.

      Further, Transgender is usually meant as a all encompassing term to include all gender stuff such as cross dressers, drag queens, transsexuals etc but they have no unifying reasons, life, approaches, goals, etc. They are all separate groups and you cannot talk of it as having one way of living or goals.

      Since you used it as an other/opposing stance to transsexual I can only assume you meant it to bee focused on the crossdressers & drag queens:

      Neither group transitions at all. Nor do they “having seen a doctor or a counselor for anything.” unless you wish to imply someone should not be allowed to crossdress without seeing a therapist?

      Crossdressers by definition identify as the gender they were born. They crossdress since they wear for fun clothes of the opposing gender. They do not transition to live fully as that gender like you asserted.

      Drag queens do gender as a performance pushing it to extremes while putting on shows / often have various personalities they perform as. Usually they live as their assigned at birth gender when not performing.

      Neither is about living as the other gender and neither includes “self diagnosis”, or “transitioning” like you said. It is about living as their assigned at birth gender and doing some cross gender play with clothes, makeup, etc.

      Nov 28, 2010 at 1:33 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ewe
      ewe

      @kyals84: Gee i must be getting old because i was under the impression that transexuals were post op and transvestites were pre op. And that is from 20 years in San Francisco during the 80s and 90s. But then again, i was around before we all grasped queer as a good thing too so… thanks for the update.

      Nov 28, 2010 at 2:38 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • kyals84
      kyals84

      @ewe: Overlap occurs sometimes in that the odd transsexual may start as a cross dresser (note on terms.. I use ‘crossdresser’.. formerly it was of course ‘transvestite’ but the term is often considered derogatory due to common negative usage in the past but depending on region/locaiton & culture sometimes it is the reverse and ‘crossdresser’ is considered negative instead so hard to be consistent but I stick with CD in my discussions).

      The reasons for some trans people to try crossdressing first for a solution is usually since people want to avoid making a big life change and risking all the problems transsexuals experience with society, family, jobs, etc and avoid doing any long term permanent changes while not fully sure if they are making the right decisions (such as hormones). In this situation, after a while they find the clothes are.. just clothes.. and not helping with their feelings towards their body or who they are living as, etc.

      Due to this sometimes overlap happens.

      The problem with post op as making someone a transsexual are:

      – inaccessibility of sexual reassignment surgery due to things like financial problems mixed with common trans social situations (high education but very low pay / employment)

      – the fact that no minority group should *ever* be told they must spend 30000$ to sterilize themselves / have their genitals cosmetically reconfigured before they will be allowed legal recognition.

      – some trans people simply do not want to do major surgery on their genitals since they are comfortable -enough- with them and only their boyfriend / girlfriend would ever need to see them. For 99% of their life people always only gender them by everything other then their genitals as they are hidden in their pants and no one can no one way or another, if not for the legal barrier making ID cards inconsistent.

      Views are rapidly changing.. American citizens who are trans can get Passports with their lived as gender without surgery already. I am Canadian and half of my ID shows my correct gender (but some they won’t let me change yet). Usually hormones act as a identifier in these cases with a need for a note from the overseeing doctor to prove they are in use.

      Essentially a transsexual is a transsexual if they live as the gender differing from that at birth in all ways, people associate to them as the gender, etcs.. even if they haven’t had a surgery or not.

      Nov 28, 2010 at 3:01 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Laconic Coil
      Laconic Coil

      @Dave: You know, Dave, I sense this consistent theme with what you post under your multiple handles on here: you have a discomfort with trans women, since you assume they’re all going to be evident to you, and you further assume that they’re always evident to everyone else. Including that part where you ungendered my sister. That was really, really classy.

      But let’s leave that aside, because you’re going for the depersonalization act again. It’s important to note that in the early 70s, depersonalization was often used as an excuse for anti-queer violence. In fact, depersonalization towards gays was incontrovertibly part of Dan White’s decision to target Harvey Milk. So, um, have you considered working through your obsessive need to depersonalize trans people, especially trans women? Or is it just because you’ve finally found a group of women who you feel some social justification in hating and it’s just an outgrowth of your own gynophobia? It’s just troubling. You can get rid of the trans people you don’t like, but I know damn well once you throw them all off the bus, you’re going to turn to the other queers you want to get rid of, and loudmouthed punk lesbians are gonna be pretty high on that list.

      As for the initial post, the actions of the Houston PD are gross, inappropriate, and kind of disgusting.

      Nov 28, 2010 at 4:11 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sweetbrandigirl2004
      sweetbrandigirl2004

      @kyals84: Uh no but their is and has been for years a split between “Transgender & Transsexuals To begin with most “True ” Transsexuals have a very huge problem with being included under the umbrella term “Transgender” and continue to voice their opposition. True Transsexual are individuals who truly seek to deal with their gender issues. They seek counseling and follow the SOC to complete transition following it through completing grs if they have the funds or striving to until they can and then blending back into society. Many if not all Transgender people self diagnosis, self medicate with Internet hormones and 99% won’t have any surgery other then breast augmentation, in esscents they are still “Male” by all accounts and are only living “AS” female and that a whole lot different then being female.

      Most are living out as fantasy and don’t want gender changing surgery that’s because their brain gender is “Male” and as such they can’t give up their male genitalia. Most have doubts about whether they were meant to be female and they don’t want to give up their junk. That way when they get over playing dress up and get through this phase in life they can go back to living as men.

      Nov 28, 2010 at 9:48 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • kyals84
      kyals84

      @sweetbrandigirl2004: I already clarified the usage of the term Transgender so I will not repeat that here. As I said there is no Transsexuals vs “true” Transsexuals. Transsexual is distinct, and Transgender is Transgender.

      ‘Transsexuals have a very huge problem with being included under the umbrella term “Transgender”‘

      Add “Some” in front of that sentence. Ok now let’s clarify: these are terms for academic discussions, transsexuals do not identify as transsexual usually. They are simply men or woman on daily basis.. sometimes trans man or trans woman in some contexts of discussion if it clarifies a aspect that’s uniquely trans. Anyone who is bickering on the transgender term is a minority, and they usually are trying to kick cross dressers and drag queens under them to get higher on the totem pole of social worth which is stupid, pointless, and speaks volumes about them.

      “True Transsexual are individuals who truly seek to deal with their gender issues.”

      All transsexuals seek to deal with their gender problem in transition. Do you truly believe a man would be happy living as a women? Would you?

      “They seek counseling and follow the SOC to complete transition following it through completing grs if they have the funds or striving to until they can and then blending back into society.”

      Thank you for discounting all I wrote previous so you, someone who is not trans, an outsider, and speaking only on his receptions of our community can tell me the “truth” about us. I spend a lot of time in trans circles, communities, helping run social and support services, and being involved in the very real lives of the people you are trying to decry. Most transsexuals, as I previously stated, do counseling, and see a doctor after. The SOC is largely no longer in use. It is not a rule book but suggested guidelines that are now dated. Most doctors do not demand trans people live in the gender for a year before hormones are approved.

      “any if not all Transgender people self diagnosis, self medicate with Internet hormones and 99% won’t have any surgery other then breast augmentation, in esscents they are still “Male” by all accounts and are only living “AS” female and that a whole lot different then being female.”

      Thank you for making up statistics to argue your point, and telling me how you perceive our community. I would point out they are all wrong, and reiterate most transsexuals do not ‘self diagnose / self medicate. Most trans people never get breast augmentation I have no idea why you think most do. Hormones grow breasts, funny how that works.

      Ok and this last part..

      “Most are living out as fantasy and don’t want gender changing surgery that’s because their brain gender is “Male” and as such they can’t give up their male genitalia. Most have doubts about whether they were meant to be female and they don’t want to give up their junk. That way when they get over playing dress up and get through this phase in life they can go back to living as men.”

      I am replying to this as a trans women on trans women since these are the circles I am involved with the most… maybe you are unaware of this:

      – Trans people on average lose sexual function in transitioning due to hormones.

      – Trans people become sterile from transitioning due to hormones.

      – Trans people experience considerable less sexual urges due to hormones (think from how it was in my experience on Testosterone being daily to many times a day.. down to maybe once or twice monthly.) This is normal results.

      – Hormones make considerable changes to the body that are permanent including hip growth, larger rounded butt, breast growth, fat redistribution all over to feminize the body. Surgery isn’t the only big change to a body someone can do, and most, if not all, transsexuals use hormones. (some can’t due to medical reasons). Also to reiterate: hormones grow breasts. The majority of trans people never get breast augmentation surgery since they grow naturally from the hormones in their body. I understand you were trying to make your point strong by simplying our lives down to people getting surgery but.. sorry.. the breasts trans women have are quite real, sensitive, and functional. Hormones also make skin more sensitive as a whole.

      – Most trans women do not like their penis, have no desire to use it, and the large majority want surgery. I am one of those apparently “untrue” transsexuals you have lovingly termed us. I am not aiming to do the surgery at the moment. I am *ALWAYS* a part of a minuscule minority on forums with the large majority having completed surgery or aiming to do surgery. Do not pretend to know what trans people want or aim to do and claim most do not do surgery. I do not aim for surgery since 1) what I have I was born with and it is my business is I choose to change it, 2) the surgery requires constant upkeep after to maintain, 3) it is Major surgery with long recovery (think years) for full sensitivy, 4) sensitivity return is not guaranteed, 5) it is fucking expensive, 6) it doesn’t change 99% of my life. It would only change sex with my boyfriend. No one would know if I had the surgery or not, and it changes nothing how I feel about myself. I am sorry but sex is LOW PRIORITY in the whole of my life.

      – Genitals are in your pants, and you spend msot of your life associating with people and them not knowing what is in your pants. I could line up 100 trans women in front of you and you would be unable to tell me which had SRS and which had not. Private surgery does not make a trans person more authentic then others or change how their lives are lived, no matter how hard you wish to tell me that.

      I question why you want to simultaneously decry trans people as a whole but then try to police the internals of our community and instruct me that some trans people are more “true” then others? You really confuse me on this. I will say it plain and clear, all trans people are valid.

      A final big thank you for instructing me how my community -really- is. What would I do if I didn’t have awesome people like you who are not trans or involved in any trans communities, social circles, support services, trans activism, or connected at all to the lives of trans people to tell me how it -really- is from your vast knowledge of us. Please consider that you need to reevaluate your views and reconsider your beliefs and understandings about trans people and what ‘facts’ you have based them all on and from what sources.

      Nov 28, 2010 at 12:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ewe
      ewe

      @kyals84: Well i am surprised because it was always my understanding that crossdressers were predominately heterosexual men who wanted to remain male. I do not recall hearing transvestites and crossdressers ever being one and the same. I do see why people without financial resources for surgery or those who choose not to could be classified as transexual but then again i sort of doubt one would want to be. I would think most people want to feel and be considered one specific gender whatever that is for them. I admit though that i have not one transgendered person currently in my sphere so i have no idea how they all feel about themselves. I still think anyone should be able to use whatever restroom they feel like using and that includes me too. There should be privacy for everyone in public restrooms and people should be personally held responsible for their own behavior in coed public restrooms. We are forever avoiding the real topic which is heterosexual bigotry and entitlement. I don’t care if someone of the opposite gender is releiving themselves in the same place as me. It is more offensive that i have to urinate next to someone i do not know and that is what should be structurally modified.

      Nov 28, 2010 at 5:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • kyals84
      kyals84

      @sweetbrandigirl2004: I wrote you a lengthy reply this morning but it was seemingly flagged for moderation and seems to remain there now for some reason so here is a short & simple reply. Why are you telling me people being trans is wrong as a whole… but then telling me some trans people are more true then others? Why police the validity of the internals of the trans community you decry as a whole? I will say it plain and clear, -all trans people are valid-.

      Further, I could line up 100 trans women in front of you and you would be unable to tell me which had SRS and which had not. Private surgery does not make a trans person more authentic or people associate with them differently in their lives, no matter how hard you wish to tell me that.

      Hormones do many permanent changes to a body including breast growth, and have a effect of significantly reducing sex drive. SRS isn’t the only permanent change to happen in transition, and how someone chooses to have sex is a moot point in the whole of how they live their life and *who* they have sex with.

      Nov 28, 2010 at 6:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Russell
      Russell [Different person #1 using similar name]

      @Dave:

      Brother, you have hit the nail on the head here. Keep the faith, don’t be intimidated by these thugs and don’t cower when they call you all sorts of names. They don’t have any moral authority and their condemnation really means nothing. These are the same gangsters who have tried to turn the gay civil rights movement into a queer studies laboratory experiment known as LGBT. This experiment is turning out to be the greatest disaster since cold fusion.

      @Zoe Brain:
      I will read your posts on Mr. Gold, but no, their existence does not explode what I have said. I didn’t say that every trans person in the world was nasty, unstable, vindictive, and lacking in civility. I said that that was the face of trans activists. I’m sure there are a few exceptions, and maybe you are one of them. There are probably a couple of gentle souls among the ranks of the Christian right, but that wouldn’t mean that their movement as a whole is anything other than cruel and bigoted.

      The better question is why you needed to have a 7-part blog exchange as to whether to even engage in debate with a well-meaning gay writer. If someone came up to me and said that he liked and respected gay people, supported full equal rights for gay people, but that he had some questions and thoughts about gay life, I would listen to him with an open mind. If he said something stupid, I would use that as an opportunity to educate him. That is what we do here in America, where we have a marketplace of ideas.

      But the trans activist mindset is to feel threatened by disagreeable ideas. Lacking any sense of charity or gentility, the trans activist attacks and destroys heretics that dare question the orthodoxy. That is why it was not enough to rebut Mr. Gold. He had to be branded, stigmatized, and expelled from Bilerico. Even now, a year later, you can see the hate seeping through Dyssonance’s comments above. If you want a parallel to Tony Perkins and the FRC, look to your own.

      Nov 28, 2010 at 11:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ewe
      ewe

      @Dave: This topic is NOT about staring and gawking. It is about a criminal charge against a transgendered person using the restroom like any other human being needs to. You do not speak for anyone but yourself.

      Nov 29, 2010 at 12:58 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ewe
      ewe

      @Russell: Since when are people using the restroom thugs and gangsters? You are acting hysterical. And lastly, you are so wrong when you compare any oppressed group behaving from a place of defense to Tony Perkins who is a runt that attacks from the comfort of offense. There is a world of difference. PS: I still say tony perkins has a smelly crusty asshole.

      Nov 29, 2010 at 1:02 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Russell
      Russell

      @Ewe:

      I certainly won’t argue the point about Tony Perkins’ butthole, but I am concerned about how you know what it smells like. :-)

      I wasn’t referring to the person in the article. I don’t know that person. I was referring to trans activists who display their gangster-like behavior on a regular basis. And it is gangster-like. Declaring yourself “oppressed” doesn’t entitle you to a different set of rules. Of course, it may be that trans activists feel that they are entitled to act without regard to the rights of others precisely because they feel that their “oppression” gives them leave to do so.

      Whether it is spending endless time and energy arguing over where transsexuals should make poo, or debating the “gender binary” or whether it is losing our one opportunity to pass ENDA because we had to insist that no law be passed unless it covered the right of drag performers to be teachers, there are real costs to the “queer” activists’ attempt to change us from a civil rights movement to a movement dedicated to a war on gender. The shotgun marriage between GLB and T is a failure. It is time for an amicable divorce.

      Nov 29, 2010 at 4:44 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Zoe Brain
      Zoe Brain

      @Russell:

      The shotgun marriage between GLB and T is a failure. It is time for an amicable divorce.

      Fair enough. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out, since you want to leave GLBT and start up your own organisation.

      Declaring yourself “oppressed” doesn’t entitle you to a different set of rules.

      No, but being subject to a different set of rules, a highly discriminatory one, does lead one to the conclusion that one is oppressed. Or do you claim that GLBTs aren’t treated differently from straights?

      I’m not Trans. I’m part of the silent “i”. Intersexed. That’s led to some unusual medical issues, requiring that I travel overseas for medical care not available in my own country.

      I was originally issued a travel document good to leave… but not return. Not because I’m Trans, but because I was perceived to be Trans.

      The rules are different for us.

      When was the last time a Gay man was arrested for using a male restroom?

      Nov 29, 2010 at 6:30 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Zoe Brain
      Zoe Brain

      @Russell:

      If someone came up to me and said that he liked and respected gay people, supported full equal rights for gay people, but that he had some questions and thoughts about gay life, I would listen to him with an open mind.

      You mean something like Of course I support human rights for gays. I’d just make sure they were hospitalised until they were cured of their perversion and mental problems, this fantasy of a “gay sexual orientation”, things not their fault, but induced by a sick society and immoral parents.

      Just as he’d get after the doctors – the psychiatrists who use a phony medical model to invent a disease that doesn’t exist, and the surgeons who use such spurious diagnoses to mutilate the bodies of the deluded.

      Nov 29, 2010 at 6:38 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • kyals84
      kyals84

      If we didn’t stand for our own rights, for our identities, lives, if we didn’t push back when people say we are fake and deserve mistreatment, abuse, or etcs.. well then no one else would do it for us.

      I make no apologies for giving counter arguments and not sitting quietly.

      I find it intriguing you think that makes me or others like me a thug. Calling any trans person who gets upset a thug is a nice way to try to try to discredit us. It is a similar tactic to people calling a woman a bitch when she argues back against a topic.

      My opinion: I would consider a thug someone who attacks a minority with no goal to improve the lives of the people they are attacking or even really their own. Trans people are such a small percentage of the population they are have little to no effect on the lives of people acting like that. There is little to no reason for people to be trying to influence the lives of all trans people, especially in such profound ways such as pushing for us to lose medical support as the Bilerco poster in question did.

      I will never sit quiet when that happens and I will speak up.

      I care for the lives of other trans people. I also care for the lives of all LGB people too and invest considerably energy arguing against ignorance or hate against LGB people as well.

      You may choose to decide that personally you do not want the T on the LGBT, I don’t need your friendship I have plenty of great friends who are passionate and caring. We will be here, however, regardless of your decision… and we will continue pushing for things to be better and you criticizing us for wanting that and our lives will not make us go away.

      Nov 29, 2010 at 9:21 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Russell
      Russell [Different person #2 using similar name]

      @Zoe Brain:

      When has a gay man been arrested simply for using the mens’ bathroom? Absent any issue relating to alleged sexual activity, the answer is never. And when gay rights bills have come up over the past decades, bathrooms have never been an issue – until recently when we have insisted on cramming “gender identity” into the proposed bills. When that happens, our adversaries immediately focus on transgender poo issues, and we either lose civil rights for huge numbers of gays and lesbians (ENDA) or succeed by the skin of our teeth where we might have won a convincing and sustainable victory (Bowling Green).

      This only underscores my point: the gay movement has been coopted and drafted into a gender war that is hurting its civil rights objectives.

      On your point about Ron Gold, I think you are blatantly mischaracterizing what he said and your analogy is false. Gold was not saying that Ts are disordered or perverse. He was saying just the opposite. He wasn’t saying that Ts need to be fixed. He was proposing just the opposite, asking whether transsexuals who surgically transitioned might be bowing to a social construct of what a man or a woman needs to be. In other words, he recognized a trans woman as a woman, and inquired as to whether she really needed surgery to “become” a woman. And as I recall, he wasn’t making pronouncements, he was raising questions in good faith. He may have been incorrect in all of this, but he certainly did not warrant the branding and lynching that he received from the thugs that make up trans activist ranks.

      @Kyals84:

      “Calling any trans person who gets upset a thug is a nice way to try to try to discredit us.”

      Yes, it would be, but I said no such thing. A trans person who gets upset is not a thug. A permanently hostile and angry trans activist who uses smearing, name-calling, intimidation, harassment, censorship and/or violence is a thug.

      Nov 29, 2010 at 3:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dyssonance
      Dyssonance

      “Even now, a year later, you can see the hate seeping through Dyssonance’s comments above.

      Read more: http://www.queerty.com/did-this-trans-woman-break-texas-law-by-using-a-mens-restroom-20101124/#ixzz16kfSm2O2” — Russell, comment number 45.

      Hello, Russell.

      Just curious, if’n you don’t mind answering a simple question.

      Um, *what* comments of mine above? I get a notification when my name is taken in vain, and have just arrived here to find that apparently I’ve been involved in a conversation I am generally unaware of.

      So beg your pardon, but I’d like to know what comments are being attributed to me, and I truly hope you don’t mean to confuse me with Brandi. She likely has a worse opinion of me than you do.

      Oh, and, for the record, I was the first person to come to Ron’s defense. And have a record for such. He screwed himself later on when he basically came out and said that all trans people are deluded men. In the comments section.

      Fascinating that I still get the blame for his downfall.

      Nov 30, 2010 at 3:28 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dyssonance
      Dyssonance

      “The shotgun marriage between GLB and T is a failure. It is time for an amicable divorce.

      Read more: http://www.queerty.com/did-this-trans-woman-break-texas-law-by-using-a-mens-restroom-20101124/#ixzz16kinMrH6

      For a marriage that started in the mid 1800’s and didn’t start to split until the late 1970’s, that’s a mighty long time to be working on the paperwork, don’t you think?

      Betcha didn’t know that. Betcha you thought it was some sort of “modern” thing.

      Betcha you don’t know why you think it is a modern thing.

      Nov 30, 2010 at 3:36 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • rjp
      rjp

      Arresting him was the right thing to do.

      Nov 30, 2010 at 8:27 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • kyals84
      kyals84

      @rjp:

      ………..

      Arresting a trans woman for peeing is “the right thing to do”..

      *speechless*

      Nov 30, 2010 at 10:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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