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Discharge Of Trans Soldier Marks Beginning Of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” Part Deux

Two weeks before the repeal of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell,” Staff Sergeant Rebecca Grant got booted from the Army National Guard because a fellow soldier outed her as transgender. Despite the recent DADT repeal, the military still considers trans people as having “gender identity disorder” and being “administratively unfit to serve”; which is why they’re quite happy to discharge Sergeant Grant despite her over ten years of service and duty overseas in Bosnia and Iraq. Welcome to the new frontier in the military battle for equality.

Louisville Fairness Campaign Director Chris Hartman says that trans acceptance in the military will be a hard sell seeing as the general public and large segments of LGB community harbor prejudice against transgender people.

“It’s going to take straight, gay, lesbian and bisexual advocates to lead the charge for transgender folks to have the same and equal rights that gay, lesbian and bisexual people have. Stories like Ms. Grant’s oftentimes get shoved under the rug because the larger gay, lesbian and bisexual community sometimes feels they have to take an incremental approach. It hasn’t been that way in Louisville, we’ve never taken that approach. The movement in Louisville has always said fairness is fairness for all.”

Right now, eight U.S. allies including the Czech Republic, Great Britain, Israel, New Zealand, Norway, and Spain allow trans people to serve. But the trans rights movement will have to begin publicizing Grant’s and other trans discharge stories and mobilize public demonstrations in order to get movement on this issue.

Image via familymwr

By:           Daniel Villarreal
On:           Sep 29, 2011
Tagged: , , , , , ,

  • 66 Comments
    • Lucien Simpson
      Lucien Simpson

      While I believe this policy to be wrong, I cannot say that I am surprised. If a person who is transgender wants to serve, let them. The problem that I have always had is why these fine folks have aligned themselves with the gay community. They are not gay. The have gender/body issues. There is nothing gay about it. Instead of riding on the hard work and coat tails of the gay community they should have been spear heading their own agenda for equality. They didn’t. They sat back and have been basically undeard from in the marriage equality/gay rights war. I would support any movement from within the transgender community for equality, but they have to do the work too!

      Sep 29, 2011 at 9:43 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wies
      Wies

      @Lucien Simpson:

      Transgenders can also be gay. And they ARE doing their own work. And also LGB work. Transgenders can also be lesbians and bisexuals. In a way some have double the work.

      Sep 29, 2011 at 10:26 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wh1t
      Wh1t

      @Lucien Simpson:
      Excuse me for being a Trans(MtF)lesbian. I mean, I get what you’re trying to say, but we are more than just Trans(gender/sexual), we also have sexual orientations.

      Also, I’d suggest you take the time to read this article:
      Larry King is Why LGB and T are Together

      And you’re statement that we don’t try and “…spearhead [our] own agenda for equality.” is highly ignorant. Yes, the “Trans rights” movement has been lacking in the U.S., but that’s not to say we sit back and say “Yea, we want rights too!” and not do anything about it. I know quite a few people(including myself) who have gone out to be an activist for not only Gender Identity rights, but also marriage equality and Sexual Orientation rights.

      Overall, I half agree with you, but your sweeping statements are ignorant.

      Sep 29, 2011 at 10:29 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kate
      Kate

      @Lucien Simpson:

      If you want to play that card Lucien, then I hope you’ve never celebrated Stonewall.

      That was a Trans riot, at a Trans/Queer bar. Also if you’d even bothered to read history, you’d see that Transwomen and men have been engaged heavily in the entire LGBTIQ movement since before the 1960′s. It was primarily the 1980′s and 1990′s where T’s were wiped from LGBT history, by a few radical gays and lesbians with too much power.

      Also Daniel, Transpeople have been trying to get attention on this. I know for a fact that MSNBC and Rachel Maddow know, though they’ve done nothing with it so far.

      Sep 29, 2011 at 11:03 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Michael
      Michael

      Yet more hypocrisy from this community.Those who have issues with people who are trans who are gay are flat out hypocrites.Trans people know what it feels like to be discriminated against and so do gay americans bisexual americans and lesbians as well.Unbelievable.

      Let these people serve this is beyond unfair that now gay men and women can serve openly yet people who are transgender can’t? The hypocrisy continues to shine through on the militarys part as well as the gay communities.

      Sep 29, 2011 at 11:14 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • the crustybastard
      the crustybastard

      Somebody drops a note in the complaint box. This becomes the equivalent of a psychological diagnosis of unfitness for duty DESPITE ACTUAL EVIDENCE Sgt. Grant adequately performing her job for a decade?

      And this in the US military, an organization that prides itself on being a meritocracy?

      We’re not a slave or feudal state — we’re a nation founded on individual liberty. Employment contracts (explicit & implicit) shouldn’t grant an employer any rights to the employee beyond job supervision and protection of the employer’s assets.

      Thus, if X is not illegal and doesn’t interfere with one’s ability to perform one’s job, employers should be barred from treating X as professionally relevant and reasonable grounds for breeching the employment contract. If employers intend to claim X is indeed professionally relevant, they should be expected to bear the burden of proof demonstrating their claim is factually true.

      If employers want to fire people for being trans, all they have to do is prove trans people can’t do that job. If employers want to fire people for smoking at home, all they have to do is prove smokers can’t do that job. If employers want to fire people for being Evangelical Christians, all they have to do is prove is Evangelical Christians can’t do that job.

      Sadly, I suspect that frog has already been boiled by the corporations that regulate our government.

      Sep 29, 2011 at 11:16 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • No One
      No One

      Lucien: It’s a pretty common misconception that we’ve aligned ourselves with the gay community. We haven’t. Y’all put our letter on your name and started acting like you spoke for us in the late 80s/early 90s. Before that, we were passing laws that recognized a legal change of sex in most states and working on non-discrimination laws. Before Stonewall (where I’m pretty sure gender non-conforming folks kicked it off literally), we had Compton’s.

      It’s the radical feminists and cis gay activists who re-wrote history and community space to exclude us circa the 1970s through present. I can provide a specific list of academics and LGB/feminist political actions from the last 40 years if necessary to back up this historical fact. A half an hour on google could probably catch you up, if interested.

      I feel for the LGB/queer trans folks. It’s easy for a primarily het trans woman like myself to ignore exclusionary LGB/feminist activists, but for LGB or queer trans folks, that’s also their comunity, and I bet it’s doubly rough for them when that movement is still divided over whether or not to accept trans people. Even if you drop the “T” from LGBT, you can’t drop trans people from being queer–some of them are. Get used to it.

      Sep 29, 2011 at 11:26 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Little Kiwi
      Little Kiwi

      Do we have a specific number of people who were discharged for “Asking”?

      how about Outing? if nobody asked, and they didnt’ tell, adn they got Outed….knowwhatimean?

      Lucien, you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. AT ALL.

      You need to watch this: http://youtu.be/zJom6vyRtQc

      Sep 29, 2011 at 11:37 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Michael
      Michael

      @Lucien Simpson:

      Your kind of comments cause further dissension and intolerance within this community. This ridiculous I was so happy when DADT ended finally.But now feel disheartened knowing that it did not end for everyone.I hope this ends soon as well discrimination does not belong in this world in society in this COMMUNITY most of all nor in government or the military.

      There are gay dudes women and transgenders who are stronger then a lot of their straight counterparts in the military.They also are able to get the job done a hell of a lot better as well.

      Anyone who fights for our country should be valued respected and treated as any other human being with dignity and respect.

      Sep 29, 2011 at 11:47 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JayKay
      JayKay

      Gay people have their own issues to worry about. Trannies being banned from military service isn’t among them.

      Fight your own battles. Stop expecting gays to spend their time, effort, and money to do it for you when we have our own problems.

      Sep 29, 2011 at 12:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Little Kiwi
      Little Kiwi

      JayKay, with that attitude you will deserve every ounce of anti-gay bigotry and discrimination that you’re destined to face in life. What a selfish and cowardly attitude to have. This *is* out battle, too. If you think hating “trannies” will help endear you to the anti-gay bigots in your own life, you’re sorely mistaken. It makes you look incredibly weak.

      Everyone who has a compassionate heart and is capable of empathy should care about transphobia and equality for transpeople.

      If we, as gay men, can’t do it then how should we expect non-gay people to care about US?

      We need allies. Straight people for LGBT Equality. Straight People who are Out in support of rights for LGBT people.

      Your stance is the stance of a wimp.

      Sep 29, 2011 at 12:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Michael
      Michael

      @JayKay:

      Gee another snob snubbing their nose up to other human beings IN THIS COMMUNITY who are just as equally discriminated as people like yourself are.

      You sure do make the gay community look god for real dude I am seriously impressed.

      Sep 29, 2011 at 1:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Little Kiwi
      Little Kiwi

      JayKay, my sixtysomething parents are active advocates for the Equality of Transpeople.
      So, congrats. You’re less hip than a couple of white-haired sixtysomethings.

      the irony – you want straight people to help you, even though they’re straight and NOT gay, and yet your gay-ass won’t help Transpeople. We get it. You’re a coward.

      Like I said, you deserve every ounce of anti-gay discrimination you’re destined to experience in life.

      take a gander: http://littlekiwilovesbauhaus.blogspot.com/2010/11/gender-nonconformity.html

      Sep 29, 2011 at 1:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Michael
      Michael

      @JayKay:

      WTF? Did you even read what you just wrote before you posted it? Seriously are you fucking for real?

      Well im sure they want nothing to do with you either its not like you’re someone special to begin with.You’re just like any other gay american the only difference is your hypocritical attitude discriminating against people who have been discriminated harassed mocked belittled ridiculed devalued shitted on spit on murdered etc…How do you not see the similarities between the 2 gay and transgender? Yes they are not completely similar but who gives a rats ass thats whats unique about this community not all of us are the same the differences should be embraced not looked down on . I hope one day you let go of your hypocritical attitude you know damn well how badly it feels to be judged and discriminated against yet… here you are… doing that exact same thing that the bigots do to you to ANOTHER group of people.

      Sep 29, 2011 at 1:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Little Kiwi
      Little Kiwi

      my leftist-ass has a family, community and friends that utterly support the right and freedoms of LGBT people.

      clearly your right-leaning ass doesn’t. that aint my fault, sugar.

      don’t be mad at Buck Angel that the people in your life are anti-gay.

      we get it. you need to hate “trannies” to be tolerated by your community. congrats. my leftist ass? life is amazing.

      :D

      Sep 29, 2011 at 1:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Little Kiwi
      Little Kiwi

      there will always be gay people who are so insecure and cowardly in the face of their bigoted families that they will attack other marginalized groups in order to win “tolerance”

      it’s sad, as these people will never know the joys of an authentic life – they forever live each day looking over their shoulder, worrying what “The Straights” are saying about them.

      they’re cowards, to be sure, with capers for testes. but their lives are their own prisons.

      you gotta love when they try to insult “Lefitsts” – yeah, my leftist life populated by people that wholly embrace and support LGBT people. oh, poor me. ;-)

      Sep 29, 2011 at 1:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • nix
      nix

      good god jaykay you are one hell of a bigot pray to yer lucky stars ya never meet me cause i’d stomp your hateful ass

      Sep 29, 2011 at 1:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shannon1981
      Shannon1981

      @Lucien Simpson: You have no idea what you are talking about. Stonewall is what kicked off the modern gay rights movement, and guess who orchestrated that? You got it, the gender benders, butch lesbians, femme gay men, transfolk, drag queens…not the gays who have an easy time fitting into mainstream society if they so choose. Now, I am aware that some people take issue with the LGBT sentiment. That is yours to take issue with. As someone who grew up in the 80′s/90′s, LGBT is all I’ve ever known. However, precisely why do you take issue with it? We are all being discriminated against based upon the same kind of ignorance and bigotry, no matter our identification: we defy what heterosexual people believe to be normal and right as far as sexual, romantic, and gender expression goes. The bigots are disgusted by that, which leads to hatred, intolerance, institutionalized discrimination, and ultimately violence. We are all in this for the same reasons, no matter the semantics underneath. Get a clue, stop trying to divide us, and let’s fight for what is right for ALL of us.

      As for this discharge, and the fact that transgender people are seen as somehow “unfit” or “mentally ill?” Time for DADT are part deux, as the article says. Despicable and disgusting.

      Sep 29, 2011 at 2:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shannon1981
      Shannon1981

      @Lucien Simpson: You have no idea what you are talking about. Stonewall is what kicked off the modern gay rights movement, and guess who orchestrated that? You got it, the gender benders, butch lesbians, femme gay men, transfolk, drag queens…not the gays who have an easy time fitting into mainstream society if they so choose. Now, I am aware that some people take issue with the LGBT sentiment. That is yours to take issue with. As someone who grew up in the 80′s/90′s, LGBT is all I’ve ever known. However, precisely why do you take issue with it? We are all being discriminated against based upon the same kind of ignorance and bigotry, no matter our identification: we defy what heterosexual people believe to be normal and right as far as sexual, romantic, and gender expression goes. The bigots are disgusted by that, which leads to hatred, intolerance, institutionalized discrimination, and ultimately violence. We are all in this for the same reasons, no matter the semantics underneath. Get a clue, stop trying to divide us, and let’s fight for what is right for ALL of us.

      As for this discharge, and the fact that transgender people are seen as somehow “unfit” or “mentally ill?” Time for DADT war part deux, as the article says. Despicable and disgusting.

      Sep 29, 2011 at 2:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shannon1981
      Shannon1981

      @JayKay: Wow. “mental disorders?” “Mutilating their bodies?” Are you serious right now?

      Sep 29, 2011 at 2:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Michael
      Michael

      @Little Kiwi:

      Who the hell are you to talk about anyone mr self righteous?You mock and bully and put down people in your OWN community so you are no better then the people you speak of.

      I seriously think you need a mirror severely.Anyone who mocks peoples lives the death of someones father and tells people to go hang themselves as much as YOU do has no right to speak of anyone unless you are speaking about yourself.

      Hypocrite party for 1.

      Awaits the predictable obsessive garbage like every other time. Amazing how some of us here can admit when we are wrong or said something wrong.But no never YOU heaven forbid you ever admit your many faults.

      Sep 29, 2011 at 2:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Little Kiwi
      Little Kiwi

      shannon, GURRRRL, i love you.
      :-)

      Sep 29, 2011 at 2:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Michael
      Michael

      @JayKay:

      Even though I dont like what you are saying I must tell you to pay no mind to Kiwi.Giving merit to anything that hypocrite says is utterly laughable.He’s no better then people like you period.

      Sep 29, 2011 at 3:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shannon1981
      Shannon1981

      @Little Kiwi: I love you too, baby. :)

      Sep 29, 2011 at 3:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Little Kiwi
      Little Kiwi

      @Shannon1981:

      it’s always so stunning when people get angry and blame transpeople and drag queens for bigotry. historically, and even to this day, it’s those with the visible targets on their back that fight hardest.

      i for one am proud to stand in solidarity with my trans brothers and sisters.

      Sep 29, 2011 at 3:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wh1t
      Wh1t

      @JayKay:
      “Tranny” and “Trannies” are both offensive terms. Think of it like “Fag.”
      P.S. I see through your trolling ways.

      @Michael:
      “You mock and bully and put down people in your OWN community so you are no better then the people you speak of.”

      So maybe @Little Kiwi took it a bit too far (Meh, I don’t think so; and I’m not sure where

      “Anyone who mocks peoples lives the death of someones father and tells people to go hang themselves as much as YOU do has no right to speak of anyone unless you are speaking about yourself.”

      was said); however, there is a difference between @Little Kiwi and @JayKay:

      For one you can’t argue that @Little Kiwi is being transphobic or discriminating against a group of people.

      @Little Kiwi is targeting the ignorant, inept, transphobic @JayKay. @JayKay is targeting the greater Transgender and Transsexual community making sweeping stereotypical, ignorant and transphobic statements; Ze (Gender neutral) also plays on a bit of homophobia as well. Ze discriminats against transpeoples in a parallel way that some straight, cisgendered people discriminate against LGB’s (Granted they also discriminate at transpeoples).

      Your argument that @Little Kiwi is a hypocrit is feeble at best.

      Sep 29, 2011 at 3:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Michael
      Michael

      @Wh1t:

      Yes I can and do not dare try that talking down to me bullshit.I do not take it from anyone period.

      So you go pat someone on the back who has specifically told people to go hang themselves never apologized for it mocked the death of my father whom I lost back in July and claimed he was not proud of me and has mocked every other aspect of my life.Sorry where intelligent sane people come from we call that a pitiful little bully.Please do not ever tell me what my argument is either unlike you I actually know what I am talking about in regards to this thing so pardon me that it does not satisfy YOUR intellectual curiosity.

      I never said he was transphobic either so please do not attempt to put words into my mouth.My comment was based on the similarities of how Kiwi ALSO puts down mocks and discriminates against people in his own community sorry but facts are facts.You can try to lie flaunt your ego to kingdom come and try to twist it into something positive but Im afraid thats not how logic and rationality work. Ive seen his comments that are negative about bisexuals as well so this person is nowhere near as pristine as he makes himself out to be.

      Now please save your egotistical remarks for someone who actually gives a damn about them.

      Sep 29, 2011 at 5:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wh1t
      Wh1t

      “Yes I can.”
      >Sure you can, but you’re wrong. In calling him a hypocrit you’re arguing that he’s preaching something ze is not doing, or saying something that ze is doing. It’s not the case when ze is putting down a person for ignorant, transphobic, discriminating slurs against a group of people and ze is not committing those acts. Yes, I’m looking at the actions more specifically.

      “Sorry where intelligent sane people come from we…”
      >I’m sorry but where intelligent, sane people come from is the same place that uses proper grammar. So how can you claim “we”?

      “…call that a pitiful little bully.”
      >Standing up to a bully is bullying then?

      “Please do not ever tell me what my argument is either unlike you I actually know what I am talking about in regards to this thing so pardon me that it does not satisfy YOUR intellectual curiosity.”
      >So where’s the “or”? “Either” is usually followed by “or” as it designates a choice.
      (Yea, I’m making fun of your ability to punctuate.)
      >I’m not sure you actually do know what you’re talking about though.

      “I never said he was transphobic either so please do not attempt to put words into my mouth. My comment was based on the similarities of how Kiwi ALSO puts down mocks and discriminates against people in his own community sorry but facts are facts.”
      >Aye, but you were trying to say he was a hypocrit. So, are you saying that if someone called you a hypocrit for putting down a preacher spewing anti-gay remarks; you’d accept the person’s opinion that you are a hypocrit? If so, then I will accept your argument that Kiwi is a hypocrit.

      “You can try to lie flaunt your ego to kingdom come and try to twist it into something positive but Im afraid thats not how logic and rationality work.”
      >Look at your argument. It’s neither logical nor rational.

      “Ive seen his comments that are negative about bisexuals as well so this person is nowhere near as pristine as he makes himself out to be.”
      &
      “So you go pat someone on the back who has specifically told people to go hang themselves never apologized for it mocked the death of my father whom I lost back in July and claimed he was not proud of me and has mocked every other aspect of my life.”
      >Did I not mention that I had not seen such comments by Kiwi? Did I not make that clear with, “I’m not sure where [Insert quote here] was said.”?

      “Now please save your egotistical remarks for someone who actually gives a damn about them.”
      >You appear to, at least you’re responding to them with a long reply that it took time to think and type.

      “…do not dare try that talking down to me bullshit.I do not take it from anyone period.”
      >But you’ll sure hand it out. If we want a true example of a hypocrit, we have one now.

      Sep 29, 2011 at 5:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wh1t
      Wh1t

      Sorry, found a typo: “…or saying not to do something that ze is doing.”

      Sep 29, 2011 at 5:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Michael
      Michael

      @Wh1t:

      Nope that would be you dumbfuck.Look at you pathetically trying to CORRECT the way I write.No thanks egomaniac I learned how to properly write in elementary school.Im glad you find this so amusing though no surprise with your kind. Now run along and inflate your ego hypocrite that is what people like you never stop doing to begin with.

      Look at your response its neither humble or any trace or sign of a decent human being.Gee once again no shocker there.

      Please know what you are talking about from here on out.If you need to someone to inflate your ego or kiss your ass.Then look somewhere else .Oh and brainiac it’s called a response in response to your stupid statement :

      You appear to, at least you’re responding to them with a long reply that it took time to think and type.

      Yes us commoners know how to type your majesty now kindly get over yourself and lose the ego already.

      Sep 29, 2011 at 5:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Michael
      Michael

      @Wh1t:

      Aww and you have proven yourself to be a hypocrite stupidly jumping on me kissing Kiwis ass like you tagalong dogs always do.Yet you said not one word about the vile shit he writes.Typical you’d rather blame someone who never said stuff like Kiwi said then face the problem and confront THEM.How hypocritical of you and please since you are foolish enough to correct the way I write please stop writing ze with everything it looks utterly stupid.

      You’re welcome.No need to thank me.

      Sep 29, 2011 at 5:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wh1t
      Wh1t

      @Michael:
      “Nope that would be you dumbfuck.”
      >Are you… Are you putting down people in your own community? For shame! Oh how thee showeth signs of thine hypocrisy!

      “Look at you pathetically trying to CORRECT the way I write.”
      >Actually I think I do it quite well, thank you.

      “No thanks egomaniac I learned how to properly write in elementary school.”
      >You picked up name-calling in elementary school as well, it seems; unfortunately you didn’t leave that there like you did with your ability to write.

      “Im glad you find this so amusing though no surprise with your kind.”
      >What is my kind? I’m tempted to think it’s trans-people, but it could be “intelligent, wise people” (To quote you), or any number of other groups.

      “Now run along and inflate your ego hypocrite that is what people like you never stop doing to begin with.”
      >How am I a hypocrite now? I wastrying to keep you on your toes by trying to get you to defend your statement, and now I’m being attacked out of spite.

      “Look at your response its neither humble or any trace or sign of a decent human being.Gee once again no shocker there.”
      >Says the one name-calling, finger-pointing, and attacking.

      “Please know what you are talking about from here on out.”
      >Just in general or in this argument? If it’s in general, I sincerely thank you for your concern; if it’s in regards to this argument, I hope to do my best.

      “If you need to someone to inflate your ego or kiss your ass.Then look somewhere else .Oh and brainiac it’s called a response in response to your stupid statement :
      You appear to, at least you’re responding to them with a long reply that it took time to think and type.”
      >”Response in Response” I’m sorry, but I’ve never heard of this phrase.

      “Yes us commoners know how to type your majesty now kindly get over yourself and lose the ego already.”
      >Excuse me, I’ll ‘kindly’ do that then. Now if you would stop putting yourself down, as I did not do that. I’m sorry if you got the sense of it, but you would be mistaken then. But seriously, I don’t know who you are referring to with your “…us…” and use of “…we…” earlier.

      Sep 29, 2011 at 5:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wh1t
      Wh1t

      @Michael:
      “Aww and you have proven yourself to be a hypocrite stupidly jumping on me kissing Kiwis ass like you tagalong dogs always do.”
      >Yea… no. See, what’s happening is you decided to, in my opinion, wrongly go after Kiwi. I understand that “stupidly” is quite subjective, but it’s not “stupid” from my perspective.

      “Yet you said not one word about the vile shit he writes.”
      &
      “Typical you’d rather blame someone who never said stuff like Kiwi said”
      >Are you still talking about the things that I have not seen? I thought we established this already…

      “…then face the problem and confront THEM.”
      >I’ve not seen it, so how can I?

      “How hypocritical of you”
      >How is that hypocritical?

      “…and please since you are foolish enough to correct the way I write please stop writing ze with everything it looks utterly stupid.”
      >I’m covering my ass as to not look “utterly stupid” by using the wrong pronouns. And it’s due to the fact that there are more than just the two genders.

      “You’re welcome.No need to thank me.”
      >Oh, but I want to. Thank you so much!

      Sep 29, 2011 at 6:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Michael
      Michael

      @Wh1t:

      Yes and you call your way of being a condescending arrogant and patronizing blowhard NOT talking down to me? Please get real already people like you always look at others as if they are beneath you.Sorry I continue to speak from personal experience and REAL life people who act the way I constantly describe here as well.

      I have no reason to respond to any of the other gibberish you wrote.If you wanted to prove my point of how arrogant gay americans treat people if they disagree with them then you just proved my point in that area.

      Nah dumbfuck wasn’t putting you down it was just brutal honesty and well deserving considering YOUR response to ME in the first place.Nice try hypocrite I dont speak down to much less look down on anyone.My parents raised me with a little something called humility.Sorry yours did not not my problem though.

      Hmm oh and gee once again no shocker you still have said NOTHING against what Kiwi said about my father.For anyone months after someone has lost someone in their family whom they loved like I did my dad to claim that that very person was not proud of them is a slap in the face.Heartless cold and unfeeling period.

      Your kind has nothing to do with transgenders I have friends of all kinds gay bisexual lesbian transgender etc…. My comment referring to YOUR kind are the ones who care more about words then they do about people.Just look at the way YOU respond to people its obvious you look down on people patronize them and treat them in a condescending way as if they are beneath you.So yes I despise your kind always have always will won’t wish harm on you not my style but thankfully I don’t have to ever associate with people like you in real life much less here.

      Sep 29, 2011 at 6:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Michael
      Michael

      @Wh1t:

      Go away dude ive responded enough to people like you as it is.But ty ever so much for your self aggrandizing arrogant condescending smart ass retorts.I truly value them seriously I’ll just throw them away where they belong if thats quite alright with you. :)

      Sep 29, 2011 at 6:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wh1t
      Wh1t

      “Yes and you call your way of being a condescending arrogant and patronizing blowhard NOT talking down to me?”
      >Condescending, how?
      >Arrogant, how?
      >Patronizing, how?

      “Please get real already people like you always look at others as if they are beneath you.”
      >Yea, no.

      “Sorry I continue to speak from personal experience and REAL life people who act the way I constantly describe here as well.”
      >Personal experience? I’m not seeing it…

      “I have no reason to respond to any of the other gibberish you wrote.”
      >But I’ll respond to yours! And… you do. ;)

      “If you wanted to prove my point of how arrogant gay americans treat people if they disagree with them then you just proved my point in that area.”
      >Because accusation of being arrogant means I automatically am guilty of it, and name-calling isn’t as bad.

      “Nah dumbfuck wasn’t putting you down it was just brutal honesty and well deserving considering YOUR response to ME in the first place.”
      >Brutal honesty negates putting down, just like “just saying” removes any spite or pain from an insult.

      “Nice try hypocrite I dont speak down to much less look down on anyone.”
      >Bullshit, take a neutral look at what you’re saying.

      “My parents raised me with a little something called humility.”
      >I’m not going to comment on their parenting style, as I wasn’t there; however if this was the case, from what I’m reading you didn’t learn that lesson.

      “Sorry yours did not not my problem though.”
      >Of course it’s not, thank you.

      “Hmm oh and gee once again no shocker you still have said NOTHING against what Kiwi said about my father.”
      >Don’t feel I need to. I’m not going to accuse anyone of anything without seeing evidence.

      “For anyone months after someone has lost someone in their family whom they loved like I did my dad to claim that that very person was not proud of them is a slap in the face.”
      >Okay.

      “Heartless cold and unfeeling period.”
      >Okay.

      “Your kind has nothing to do with transgenders I have friends of all kinds gay bisexual lesbian transgender etc….”
      >All that comes to my head is Lewis Black talking about Dr. Oz and the incident with arsenic in apples: “I love apples, my best friends are apples…”

      “My comment referring to YOUR kind are the ones who care more about words then they do about people.”
      >That’s a statement you do not have enough evidence to make; however, I do put a lot of weight on words and grammar as they are a highly important means of communication, especially on the internet.

      “Just look at the way YOU respond to people its obvious you look down on people patronize them and treat them in a condescending way as if they are beneath you.”
      >You’ve had one example of this, and you’re at the receiving end of it. You view is biased.

      “So yes I despise your kind always have always will”
      >But you don’t look down upon me at all. Mmm-mmm.

      “…won’t wish harm on you not my style but thankfully I don’t have to ever associate with people like you in real life much less here.”
      >And I don’t have to associate with you. Because I’m not going to stereotype a group and put you in it. Also I don’t wish harm upon you, but I do wish you’d get an education.

      Sep 29, 2011 at 6:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Michael
      Michael

      @Wh1t:

      I wish you’d shut the hell up too but arrogant idiots like you never do.You have proven nothing about me btw only more about yourself.Or should I say even LESS about yourself.Quit telling me that I need an education also you pompous moron god people like you are pathetic.I feel for your friends having to put up with someone who acts like they are always right and above everyone.YOU have MY pity. Yes your parents did fail you in that regard you continue to prove with that with your hypocritical bullshit about ME looking down on anyone.

      You suck at this you keep trying to distort and twist my words.I never said you were beneath me I just said I despise people like you period.Has nothing to do with looking down on you making some sick and looking down on them are 2 completely different things mr egomaniac.

      I do not care about your education your I.Q. none of it its obvious you are an asshole who is not capable of being humble much less respectful. Thanks again for the lesson on how to be a patronizing and condescending buffoon go with what you know.You are an expert in that area so I thank you kindly.

      Sep 29, 2011 at 6:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wh1t
      Wh1t

      @Michael:
      “Go away dude”
      >’Cause I’m totally a dude. (Hint: MtF translesbian)

      “Ive responded enough to people like you as it is.”
      >People like me. Generalizations lead to stereotypes, stereotypes lead to hate, hate leads to…

      “But ty ever so much for your self aggrandizing arrogant condescending smart ass retorts.”
      >You’re welcome.

      “I truly value them seriously I’ll just throw them away where they belong if thats quite alright with you.”
      >Do with them what you wish. I’ve no power over you.

      Sep 29, 2011 at 6:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wh1t
      Wh1t

      @Michael:

      At this point I know you’re trolling.

      10/10

      You got me.

      But let’s go what the judges think. Did @Michael win? Or did @Wh1t? It’s time for you to be the judge and decide!

      Sep 29, 2011 at 6:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Michael
      Michael

      @Wh1t:

      Shrugs Could care less what you are who you are what your I.Q. is where you come from etc… None of that has ever made a difference to me in the least.

      If you are not capable of humility and respecting another persons opinion especially a DIFFERENCE of opinion then I don’t give a shit what you have to say to begin with.

      You’re the one that apparently can not comprehend this simple fact you had the gall to jump on me just because you were annoyed by what I said to Kiwi.Ive known this fool longer then you have therefore I understand a hell of a lot more about him then you do.

      But feel free to rip apart everything I say as if that makes you something special.You’re not dear and you are definitely no rhodes scholar so you even mocking the way I write is utterly laughable to begin with. :)

      Sep 29, 2011 at 6:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Michael
      Michael

      @Wh1t:

      You are a moron Im not trolling at all.But feel free to carry on arrogant one you only do the gay community a disservice by the way you act towards people from the same community.

      No surprise.

      Sep 29, 2011 at 6:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shannon1981
      Shannon1981

      @Michael: At least @Wh1t: speaks correct English.

      Sep 30, 2011 at 7:58 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shannon1981
      Shannon1981

      @Little Kiwi: They(we) have to fight the hardest. We do not have the luxury of fitting in, of being assumed to be the “norm”(whatever the hell that is)until proven otherwise. Not that most of us want to be that at all, but it’s true. We have huge targets on our backs the second we walk out the front door.

      Sep 30, 2011 at 8:13 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Doug
      Doug

      Based on the level of ignorance and (to be honest) bigotry displayed, me thinks Lucien and JayKay were raised on some backwater farm in Arkansas. Calling transpeople “freaks”, funny FAR too many straight people (including JayKay’s and Lucien’s own parents, I suspect) tend to use that term towards homosexuals, just sayin’.

      Sep 30, 2011 at 8:51 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shannon1981
      Shannon1981

      Also, JayKay and Lucien…plenty of people still refer to gay people-homosexuals- as freaks, just as you did here to our trans brothers and sisters. You might want to rethink your tone here. Amazing that you cannot see the parallels.

      Sep 30, 2011 at 8:56 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bart
      Bart

      I don’t think that the regs regarding trans servicemembers has anything to do with DADT. DADT barred servicemembers who were mentally and physically fit and who were otherwise adhering to all rules of conduct and were fulfilling their duties. The trans ban arises out of the fact that trans people suffer from Gender Identity Disorder, per the DSM IV. The military can exclude people with psychological disorders, period. Also, to the extent that the trans servicemembers seek to crossdress, that is a conduct violation. So, sorry, no equivalence. That having been said, I do think that if a trans servicemember is functioning well and is not violating any rules of conduct, then he or she should be allowed to continue to serve.

      The better question is why gay people are constantly forced to think of themselves as being in the same category as transsexuals and crossdressers. We aren’t. Gay is not the same as transvestitism or transsexuality and we are hurting ourselves by falsely identifying with them.

      Sep 30, 2011 at 9:40 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Michael
      Michael

      @Shannon1981:

      Don’t give a shit about your arrogant opinion little girl.Quite frankly sick and tired of people like you.But ty for trying to correct the way I write yet another person with no shred of decency or humility.Feel free to continue to look down on me though no surprise after all birds of a feather flock together and you and Kiwi are friends .Enough said.Explains it all.

      Sep 30, 2011 at 9:48 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dee
      Dee

      Haven’t you wondered why the gay groups took the position on ENDA that it had to be “trans inclusive” or they would not support it, but on DADT they pushed for repeal that did not include trans? Here’s some inside info on why the DADT repeal did not include trans soldiers.

      The truth is that the decision to lose civil rights protections for millions of gay and lesbian workers in order to show “solidarity” over where transitioning transsexuals go to the bathroom created a huge, if unreported, backlash. These groups knew that demanding a “trans inclusive” repeal would mean defeat just as it mean defeat on ENDA, and they were scared shitless of the reaction of their members if they sacrificed a second major goal on the altar of “LGBT” idiocy. They basically told the trans activists that they had better back off on this or it would be the beginning of the end of the “LGBT” arrangement that was invented 15 years ago. Although the trans activists are by nature loud, obnoxious, divisive and largely mentally unbalanced, they are also extraordinarily selfish and so had a good sense of what best served their selfish interests. So they agreed to shut up about DADT to preserve the LGBT scam that benefits them at the expense of gays and lesbians.

      Sep 30, 2011 at 11:37 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Zoe Brain
      Zoe Brain

      @JayKay:

      I only need straight people to support GAY equality. That would be a hell of a lot easier to accomplish if trannies, and all the other freaks, didn’t insist on clinging to the gay rights movement like fucking ticks.

      So why should Straights support you? What’s in it for us? There’s lots of important stuff that needs accomplishing and this GLB thing dilutes the message and makes things harder. Ticks? GLBs are more like leeches.

      I thought it was about justice, but since you’ve rejected that concept, there’s no reason why we should give you the time of day. If justice doesn’t concern you, then fight your own battles, don’t expect straights to expend any effort to help. You’ve persuaded us that we shouldn’t.

      Sep 30, 2011 at 1:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Little Kiwi
      Little Kiwi

      Wh1t, you’ll have to ignore Michael. He gets angry and says that everyone “talks down” to him and act “arrogant” whenever they use calm ration logic and reason. Just ignore.

      Sep 30, 2011 at 1:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Little Kiwi
      Little Kiwi

      ZOE, well said homegirl!

      for a gay man to claim to want the respect and allegiance of Straight People makes no sense when in the same breath he refuses to stand in solidarity with his Trans brothers and sisters.

      well done, you!

      Sep 30, 2011 at 1:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daniel Villarreal
      Daniel Villarreal

      Dear all, I have deleted the comments made by JayKay and issue this as a warning to him and other future commenters. We will not tolerate transphobic hate speech which degrades other members of our community as “self-mutilating tranny freaks with mental disorders” and such.

      If JayKay had bothered framing his comments within a constructive discussion of the issue at hand or made the comments as an example of the mainstream and LGB animus against trans people, that would have been one thing. But instead he voiced his transphobia as a troll with no point beyond sharing his disgust of trans people. As such, it served no function in the conversation but to inflame others.

      While we have not banned JayKay from Queerty, if he repeats this behavior, he will be and so will any other commenters who do the same. Hate speech violates Queerty’s comment policy. If you see any commenters spreading hate speech on any thread, please alert us at holla@queerty.com

      Thanks!

      Sep 30, 2011 at 1:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Michael
      Michael

      @Little Kiwi:

      The truth hurts little boy and you continue to lie and act as if you know everything about anyone.Must suck having an ego the size of texas and acting like a hypocritical pathetic little bully boy all your life.YOUR parents must be so proud didnt raise you with one ounce of humility . :) Carry on lying im on the phone with a friend at the moment but as usual your idiotic ass had to spew verbal diarrhea as you always do.Inflate your ego a bit more and you can be one of the floats in the Macys Thanksgiving parade yay you! :) Moron.

      Sep 30, 2011 at 1:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wh1t
      Wh1t

      @Bart:
      “DADT barred servicemembers who were mentally and physically fit and who were otherwise adhering to all rules of conduct and were fulfilling their duties. The trans ban arises out of the fact that trans people suffer from Gender Identity Disorder, per the DSM IV.
      >Homosexuality was also apart of an earlier version of the Diagnostic and Statistics Manual. (I-III, I believe?) Just because it’s in the DSM does not actually mean it’s a disorder. Gender Identity Disorder, as it’s called is merely thought of as a disorder since it deals with the gender of a person not being the same as their sex. Trans people are just as capable in mental and physical capacity as any other straight, gay, lesbian, or asexual soldier out there.

      Also the European Parliament is calling for the end of classifying it as a disorder ( http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2011/09/european-parliament-calls-for-end-of-classifying-gender-dysphoria-as-mental-disorder/). I hope that changes your outlook on it. And if it doesn’t, and you still think that transgender people have a mental disorder after it has been taken off the books as a disorder, well then homosexuality should still be a disorder in your mind.

      “Also, to the extent that the trans servicemembers seek to crossdress, that is a conduct violation.”
      >Actually they seek to dress appropriately, according to their gender.

      “The better question is why gay people are constantly forced to think of themselves as being in the same category as transsexuals and crossdressers. We aren’t. Gay is not the same as transvestitism or transsexuality and we are hurting ourselves by falsely identifying with them.”
      >No, just no. First off yes, being gay is not the same as being transgender or a transvestite. That being said, being transgender is not the same as being a transvestite or vice versa. And how is it hurting by identifying with us? LGBT stands (for the most part) as a unified group of people for the betterment of our society. Sure, being gay falls under sexual orientation and being trans is not a sexual orientation; but trans people can be gay. Simply put, together as LGBTQQIAA we are a strong and driving force for better change and equal rights.

      —————–
      @Dee:

      “The truth is that the decision to lose civil rights protections for millions of gay and lesbian workers in order to show “solidarity” over where transitioning transsexuals go to the bathroom created a huge, if unreported, backlash.”
      >I think I agree with you if you’re talking about dropping the rights for Trans people, so that they could pass rights for gays without a larger backlash. Which is unfortunate, but understandable as people are freaked out as hell about bathrooms.

      “These groups knew that demanding a “trans inclusive” repeal would mean defeat just as it mean defeat on ENDA, and they were scared shitless of the reaction of their members if they sacrificed a second major goal on the altar of “LGBT” idiocy.
      >Because fighting for universal equal rights is idiotic, right? Unfortunately though, I agree with you on the fact that it would most likely have not gotten it passed if it would have included trans-rights because so many people are ignorant enough to think that we’re mentally handicapped since of this “disorder” we have. I don’t agree with not trying to pass trans-rights, but I understand why they did it as such and I’m trying to look the situation with a positive outlook and think of it as baby steps, with one day having equal rights for everyone.

      “They basically told the trans activists that they had better back off on this or it would be the beginning of the end of the “LGBT” arrangement that was invented 15 years ago.”
      >Doubt it. The four letters “L,” “G,” “B,” and “T” are so synonymous now that something like that wouldn’t break it.

      “Although the trans activists are by nature loud, obnoxious, divisive and largely mentally unbalanced, they are also extraordinarily selfish and so had a good sense of what best served their selfish interests.”
      >Thank you. Thank you for your stereotypical look at trans activists. Lets go on discriminating part of the community so we can still point the finger at someone. Some whites did it to minorities, some racial minorities are doing it the people of LGBTQQIAA backgrounds, and now some of the LGBs are doing it to the trans community. Because if “we” get discriminated against, we should only make it fair to others by discriminating and stereotyping them.

      “So they agreed to shut up about DADT to preserve the LGBT scam that benefits them at the expense of gays and lesbians.”
      >Expense? What expense?

      Sep 30, 2011 at 1:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Michael
      Michael

      @Daniel Villarreal:

      You erase those comments yet do not punish Kiwi someone who insults bullies mocks and puts down people here on a daily basis? Someone who mocked my father and claimed he was not proud of me when my father is DEAD and has also told numerous people here to go hang themselves?Boy your priorities are all screwed up don’t just hold one person accountable hold EVERYONE accountable.

      Sep 30, 2011 at 1:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wh1t
      Wh1t

      @Michael:
      You’re such a troll! I love it!

      You do know, that if @Daniel Villarreal were to hold everyone accountable you’d be in that group as well? Name-calling, putting people down, mocking; y’know.

      Just wanted you to be aware of that.

      Sep 30, 2011 at 1:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Little Kiwi
      Little Kiwi

      Michael, you can’t just lie about people because you’ve chosen to dislike them. Right here in this thread you yourself have insulted the parents of other posters. How do you know that Wh1t’s parents are both alive? You insulted Wh1t’s parents, and called Wh1t a “pathetic dumbfuck” and have been incredibly rude.

      You’re basically acting like a child on a school yard who runs to a teacher and says “this whole fight started when _____ hit me back!”

      You cannot just lie about other people because you’re angry that you’ve made foolish posts. This is the last time I’m ever addressing you because I don’t believe in feeding trolls.

      Look at how you conducted yourself on this thread and learn from it.

      Sep 30, 2011 at 1:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Michael
      Michael

      @Wh1t:

      Hence why I said everyone.I could give a fuck if im held accountable unlike any of you I actually admit when I make mistakes.Once again this commoner does not care for your smartass egotistical remarks so kindly get lost. I dont mean leave I mean leave me the hell alone already you pompous blowhard. I mean this with all due sincerity. :)

      Sep 30, 2011 at 1:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Michael
      Michael

      @Little Kiwi:

      Yes and mr hypocrite continues his asinine arrogant bullshit.Never tell me what to learn little boy you may think you are oh so brilliant but you are not in so many ways.

      So listen here little boy how do you call the way YOU act and the way you call people inferior and pathetic as ADULT behavior? How do you call mocking someones dead father as you did mine by claiming my father was not proud of me ADULT behavior? How do you sit there on your pathetic pedestal and tell people they should go hang themselves then claim you are oh so smart?You are the epitomy of a hypocrite you continue to point your pitiful little nub at me when you should be pointing it at yourself.Im no troll either you idiot I just call out bullshitters like and could care less if thats a problem for you.You have utter gall to speak of conduct to begin with.Im sure your parents would be so fucking proud of you the way you tell people to kill themselves and the way you mock peoples parents especially ones that are DEAD.You can go to hell as far as Im concerned you’re a pompous windbag that never thinks he is wrong just like the rest of your kind.Good riddance dont ever speak to me again that makes me very happy thank god.

      Sep 30, 2011 at 1:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Michael
      Michael

      @Little Kiwi:

      You cannot just lie about other people because you’re angry that you’ve made foolish posts.

      Just look at yourself you pathetic twit.You have the utter audacity to claim my posts are foolish.Who the hell deemed you superior based on the arrogant bs you CONSTANTLY write here?

      Enough people here kiss up to you as it is they have no dignity or self respect thats their problem not mine.

      This all stems from you being a pitiful little asshole towards me for claiming Obama was a Muslim and assholes like you just keep picking and prodding and you did it intentionally.Do not even sit there and LIE and claim you did it just to better understand my point of view.You did it intentionally to BAIT me into responding to you so YOU could start some dumbass argument about it. Ever since then juvenile twit YOU are you keep bringing that up constantly you have mocked the death of my father you have mocked my long distance relationship you have mocked my life my social anxiety disorder you have mocked EVERYTHING about me and you loved every minute of it.But I ty because people like you are the ones I despise and never associate with to begin with…. ty for giving me even more proof and reason as to why people like you and people like me will NEVER get along much less will I ever think of you as someone that represents this community. So take your egotistical bs and shove it where the sun does not shine.YOUR parents are the failures not mine kid.

      Sep 30, 2011 at 1:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daniel Villarreal
      Daniel Villarreal

      @Michael: With such a small staff, we cannot possibly monitor every forum and comment that gets posted on Queerty which is why we encourage every member of our community to report any violations of our comment policy to holla@queerty.com so that we may respond accordingly. Thanks.

      Sep 30, 2011 at 3:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sally jessie
      sally jessie

      I know this man.. the Military knew that he dressed like a woman in 2005. Not somthing that was just discovered last year. While out doing training for the Military, he would go out dressed like a woman, I do not understand how he “claims”, other people outed him. That is a lie, sounds to me like this is somehting he has been planning for a while. I know him pretty well to know he has that kind of mindset.

      Sep 30, 2011 at 4:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wh1t
      Wh1t

      @sally jessie:
      “Man… he… him…”
      >Would you be kind enough to use proper pronouns?

      Sep 30, 2011 at 4:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Michael
      Michael

      @Daniel Villarreal:

      I just assumed the staff here was pretty big my bad.I understand what you are saying though… I have tried exactly what you just said though.Never received a single response nor was anything done about the ” problem”. Still do not understand but its fine.

      Sep 30, 2011 at 4:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • David
      David

      @Daniel Villarreal: I want to report a serious instance of hate speech. Someone posted on Queerty that gay people want to indoctrinate children and were dishonestly refusing to admit their true agenda. This statement was so vicious and vile, it has been picked up by anti-gay groups around the world.

      Dan, please look into this and ban the perpetrator from posting anything on Queerty again.

      Sep 30, 2011 at 8:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jeff4justice
      jeff4justice

      Here’s a great interview about transgender youth:

      Sep 30, 2011 at 10:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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