… what’s wrong with having a preference? Don’t tell me I can’t have a preference! I don’t want to have sex with women. No hard feelings. Does that make me a misogynist?… What makes someone an authority on how to delineate when and where something stops being a “preference” and starts being racist? The hell?…
You want to fight racism? Start by getting off Grindr and going out into the real world, where actual racism actually exists. Because there’s a difference between “I’m not sexually attracted to black guys” and “I’m not going to hire this black guy because he’s black.”
… If someone is truly racist, I’d like to know right off the bat… Isn’t it better to know–from the beginning–that someone is a racist, or at least an idiot?”
—The Sword (NSFW) editor Zachary Sire, responding to Alex Rowlson’s Fab magazine article “Not Just A Preference: The Troubling Terminology Of Our Desires,” which discussed use of phrases like “no fats,” “no femmes,” “no Asians,” or “no blacks” on hookup sites and apps.
CBRad
It’s okay to have a preference, but maybe it would be better, if you aren’t attracted to certain races, to leave “no blacks, no Asians” out of your public statement, and if you do get such a person answering your ad- just don’t pursue it. It’s more polite that way, and no feelings are hurt.
JSmith
It may not make you a racist, but indicate you at least have hang ups about stereotypes. Often times it isn’t phrases like “I like guys with blonde hair, or guys with guys with green eyes that people state, those would be preferences. Instead it’s “I’m not into black guys” or “I’m just not attracted to asians” disregarding that no one in either category looks exactly the same. My theory is that said “preferences” are actually just manifestations of a hierarchal standard of beauty that absolutely can be overcome.
Ricky
Preferring a specific race for anything is by its very definition racist. You’re purposefully excluding someone from being sexually intimate with you purely on account of their race. Unlike differences based on age (all 25-year olds are 25) or differences based on gender (all women have a vagina), there is no unifying characteristic of, say, an Asian. By saying “No Asians,” you’re ignoring the vast diversity of what constitutes an “Asian.” Not all Asians are alike. In other words, stop trying to justify your racism by hiding it under the label of it being a “preference.” The best way to truly stop racism is by changing your own biases first.
Jon Tom
No sport bras!
LukeM
If you don’t want to be called a racist, don’t make your body a publicly available commodity that excludes based on race, dipshit. The guy who hasn’t fucked every homo he knows doesn’t have to come up with totally-not-racist explanations for why his sexual partners are monochromatic.
mike
I disagree, Ricky. They way I tend to put it is that, all of the guys who turn me on happen to be young, white, and in good shape. Therefore, I just say that that’s what I’m looking for.
I think it’s fair to say that there are certain set of features associated with people who have predominately African ancestry (in addition to skin tone) … and even if someone is “light skinned” or whatever, they’re still perceived by society as being black. (As Obama explains it.. even though he’s half white, he appears to people as black, and so therefore he asserts a “black” identity)
So if it’s ok to say “I only hook up with blond guys” based on a visual cue .. blond hair… then it’s ok for me to say “I only hook up with white guys” .. or more accurately, people of European ancestry, because those are the features that turn me on.
Me
I am not attracted to mtf or ftm trannies, does that make me transphobic? Not all of them are the same, but I still won’t sleep with.one. I want someone that looks like a dude whilst having a genuine dick.
boom
Well, he makes one good point in his last sentence there: at least if you see “no fats, no femmes, no blacks, no asians, no mexicans” on someone’s profile, you’ll know right away they’re a jerk. And I prefer not to sleep with jerks, so it’s a useful indicator.
Cam
You can have a strong preference one way or the other. Attraction is attraction.
You can’t do much about it. It is like those Psychologists that tried to give little boys female oriented toys and vice versa and were upset when the girls were putting dresses on the guns and the boys were shooting each other with Barbies.
So nobody can be attacked for a “Preference”. NOW, that said, if they refuse to sleep with a certain race because they say that “Every Asian is….” or “All Blacks are” etc… then yeah they’re a racist.
Julian
Can we all check in with science before spouting out opinions?
Attraction (or lack of it) based on race has been proven to be the product of social conditioning.
So even if guys aren’t trying to be racist they’re still not exempt from the influence of that train of ideology.
Shannon1981
The very definition of racism is discounting someone based soley on race. Think about it for a moment. When someone says “No Blacks,” or, if they are being really racist, “No Fried Chicken” or “No Chocolate,” this means that they have decided anyone listing their race as Black or African American is unattractive and unworthy. Doesn’t matter if the person is fat, skinny, short, tall, light, medium, or dark skinned, ripped and cut or simply toned…on and on and on. You cannot possibly know that, no matter their vastly varying traits, due to just one – their race- they will be unattractive to you. And I honestly thin the litany of food analogies being used to convey these “preferences” is very telling to the racist undertones. This is racism, no matter how you spin it.
tookietookie
This guy is trolling.
JayKay
@Me:
According to the leftist sex fascists, yes, you’re a bigot.
JayKay
This guy is absolutely right.
@tookietookie:
“Someone has an opinion I don’t like?! Must be a troll.”
mike
actually… Shannon.. the “very definition of racism” is the belief that there are inherent differences between various races, and that certain races are therefore better than others, and should be treated differently because of those differences.
I don’t think I’m better than black guys… I just don’t find myself attracted to black guys. Or to be more exact, I haven’t popped a woody because of a black dude, ever. Them’s the facts.
gregory
I have not nor will ever find any black or asian even remotely sexually attractive. Same with women and trans folk. By specifying white men only, I save myself and others a lot of wasted time.
Stace
Instead of getting offended you might be racist, examine what it means when you group a whole cross section of the population by one topology and decide that they are less than by whatever criteria, in your mind, is acceptable. How is that not racist? What am I missing?
jon
Boy Mike, sure sounds like a very limiting monotone experience to be you. Those may be the facts, but maybe you should ask yourself WHY you have never been turned on by a black man “ever”. I’m not looking for a debate here or even for a response but you might find your reasons don’t hold a lot of water. Self examination is always a good thing.
Interesting
@Shannon1981: Yes, it is the definition. The key problem is that gay white men do not want to be accused of having an issue with race so we are suppose to pretend that there is an actual debate here.
christopher di spirito
People are attracted to who they are attracted to — period.
As long as Asians, African Americans, Hispanics, and Arabs aren’t excluded posting on Grindr then the site isn’t racist. A lot of queens have too much time on their hands assigning all these “ists” and “isms” to life. Get over it.
Interesting
As I said before, if the issue were only “Who do i want to date” I would be more inclined to believe its bias rather than racism, but I see quite a bit of “I don’t want to be friends with people of color” too. There is no way on earth you can explain how friendships are supposed to be biological unless you resort to claiming certain behaviors, ways of acting, etc. are black and that, for example, a black person can not be interested in comic books like a white person (this actually happened to me once over a guy who claimed he wanted to meet to discuss comic books with other comic book fans. It was understood to be meeting over comic books. He still managed to take something as platonic as discussing comic books to turn it into sex). In short, I am not buying its just about dating.
Jakey
‘Because there’s a difference between ‘I’m not sexually attracted to black guys’ and ‘I’m not going to hire this black guy because he’s black.'”
Yeah, there’s a difference but they’re both racist. Racism, alas, is not just a lot of mean-minded people who deliberately set out to ruin the day of someone of another race; it’s also a lot of unconscious attitudes that shape everyday decisions and opinions in ways you wouldn’t even notice unless you sat down and really thought about why, for instance, you tell people you’re not attracted to black guys. Unless you’ve seen with your own eyes every black guy in the frigging world, you have no way of knowing you are not attracted to any of them. Everyone has their types, but few people would say “nobody with green eyes” as easily as they do “no Asians.” It’s racism, sorry.
And what a gross thing to say, honestly. The implication is that if you don’t hire the black guy, your racism is negatively affecting another person and is therefore bad, but if you say “I’m not attracted to black guys” you’re not affecting anyone and it’s just fine. Maybe he should try being a black guy looking at ad after ad saying “no black guys” and see if he still feels the same way about that theory.
Interesting
One other thing: This needs repeating. Jim Crow was also based on social preferences. People really did believe what they were saying about the races.That they should not intermingle. We are not far removed from that. The study that was done in fact is very similar to what was done in Brown v. Board. Indeed, this study has been repeated today to show that black children still think of white as superior due to social pressures. For white people here and their igorant allies- to claim that they are somehow immune to these social forces that determine racial attraction is the height of insult. Its not enough for you be racist. No, it is some kind of impulse you can not control. In other words, anyone with your same preference- say in hiring me- they too can’t control their impulses and can’t be aware enough to deal with their issues. That in a nutshell makes this whole conversation very fucked up. Frankly, I am lucky. I am attracted to all races, including some that I had to work through issues with because I was honest with myself about why I felt the way I did and came to a point where I was able to get rid of it because I understand it as something bad rather than a virtue. Gay or straight- its interesting how powerful race distorts how people see what they are doing.
Rawrzellers
It’s online hook ups for sex… are we really treating this as something that should be taken seriously? I doubt anyone goes looking for online hook ups and goes “oh god how racist of this person” like really where are people even getting this whole racist thing from? Again it’s online hook ups, it is not that serious to begin with.
Interesting
@Jakey: They will never admit that the same thing that leads to not hiring a black person – social attitudes- is the same force that leads to attraction. To admit that one require them to admit to being racist. As I said above, all of this talk of “not attracted” sure as hell does not explain the segregation in the gay white community from other races in non-dating context.
Interesting
@Rawrzellers: Its being treated as an example of a wider problem, that each time its brought up, is being described as not important or not representative or not an issue. Whether its online hookups to, oh, I don’t know- the gay rights movement and who gets included in the leadership of it- race is never an issue except for those who are being excluded- which surprisingly isn’t White gays.
tookietookie
@JayKay: Or, for instance, your need to keep feeding the flames.
Ray
It comes down to this, I don’t have to fuck you if I don’t want to and you should have the dignity to take a polite no and move on instead to trying to guilty trip someone into a fuck. If you don’t have that dignity that’s your issue, not mine.
Interesting
@Ray:Actually it comes down to the fact that no one is asking you to fuck them, but they are pointing out the reason why you feel that way, and you don’t like how that reason makes you feel less than you want to feel. But hey, nice attempt to flip the switch. Your racism is clear. That’s the discussion you don’t want to have. Much like the racist white of the past, you try to pass off your bigotry as the problem of the people you wish to be racist against. In short, stop blaming other people for noticing your hang ups. Its not our job to protect ouf fragile ego from the fact you are a bigot.
A
Since it is a profile and you are trying to attract someone, why not put what your interests are including the type of person that attracts you,rather than put a long laundry list of all of your dislikes, which is distasteful.
Michael
OR how about people go out and actually speak to someone and HEAR their voice. You know, be social.
CBRad
@Interesting: That’s like saying Ray is a misogynist because he’s not sexually interested in women.
WillBFair
I support pc; it’s helped us to show more respect for others.
But sometimes pc goes off the rails, and I think this is one of those times. Calling someone racist because he’s not turned on by black guys? Please. That doesn’t compare to a real racist, who actually works to harm people of color.
But I think this issue is meant to distract attention from the real problem: that many queers treat the less attractive among us with contempt. That to me is real bigotry. It also prevents us from recognizing people with character, and we need them in this community. So long as we obssess on looks and bodies over brains and character, we have no right to complain about our incompetent leadership.
Ray
@Interesting: No sad attempt on your part to flip the switch. I’ve had this happen several times in real life where people of a different race seem to think they can badger others into sex using race. I’m sure that little guilt trip might work on some white people low self esteem but it doesn’t on me. But hey if being so pathetic that the only way you can get it is through forcing some into sex then you go for it.
Ray
Oh I forgot to mention, I’ve notices the people that try to pull that bull shit don’t ever want guys of their own race themselves.
Interesting
@CBRad: Unless you are claiming not being attracted to a whole race or several races is somehow biological, your point of view is sophistry. There is also a reason why I expanded this conversation to non-sexual forms of contact based on friendship and social circles- and that’s because I want to cast a light on just how deep the racism runs. To pretend it’s just about attraction- is just that- pretend. These guys re likely not just out there looking for “No blacks” but exclude blacks in other circumstances as well because the attitude comes from the same underlying social attitudes that they get from the society around them.
Going back to the sophistry in your argument: You are using one category that superficially looks like another until one thinks about the premise that underlies the two. Here being gay is not a societal norm pushed on you while being attracted to a race is. It is that social construct that we are discussing. It is the source of the sophistry you are committing here. The discussion is about the specific premise- not just the attraction, yet you use the superficial comparison to pretend that we are discussing the same things. Social attitudes defines attraction. They do not define sexual orientation. So, in effect, you are engaged in a fallacy.
One may look at it either as a straw man:
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html
Or a red herring (depending on how you look at your argument):
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/red-herring.html
You argue well “this is about attraction” and implicit in your statement, for your “argument” to be true, is the idea that attraction is attraction, and there are no underlying differences that define how one comes to be attracted- that being attracted to same gender is exactly the same as not being attracted to a particular race.
Your argument is a false one if the reason for the difference is that the attraction in the one case is intrinsic (sex orientation) and the other is a social attitude that has been internalized (racial exclusion). And the sociological data indicates the differences between the two. One is inherited regardless of culture. The other is specific to cultural norms. Even those norms- of what is attractive amongst Whites have changed over time.
I don’t expect any of this to get through the fog of bigotry that causes one to write what you wrote. Bigots always rationalize what they do. That’s almost law at this point in terms of how it works out.
Aiden
@mike: My cousins biracial daughters are blonde, and have African features.
Interesting
@Ray: (a) You sound narcissistic. I am also assuming at this point you are lying to win an online argument. Are we supposed seriously believe you are so “attractive” that when you say no that many people of color have fallen all over themselves for you? Or, is it likely how you behaved? Nah, couldn’t be that you were probably rude about the way you said you weren’t interested? No, it has to be that rather than because you probably said something that came across as bigoted that they were responding to that.
(b) You follow up with a racist generalization- I am a Black guy who dates all races- including my own. Still do. That does not fit your racist description. It sure as hell does not explain what I am going to assume is your social circle- no people of color, and if so, the damaged kinds who like yourself have not thought much about how racism affects their self image.
Aiden
Fleshbot had a much better response.
http://gay.fleshbot.com/5851036/which-of-these-horny-hunks-do-you-prefer-is-that-okay
This isn’t about forcing people to be attracted to everyone, it’s about being careful about how you phrase things. I couldn’t give two fucks about whether white guys are into me, but is absolutely necessary to say so in the rudest way possible. Say what you want instead of what you don’t want.
joe c
Exactly right. People should stop focusing on the preference itself and more on HOW it’s said. If the only way you know how to say “looking for fellow athletic types who enjoy staying in shape” is to say “stop wasting my time fatty — go inhale another cheeseburger” then you are one rude little shit with no regard for the feeling of others.
kylew
@Rawrzellers: Hear hear. People don’t use grindr because they want philosophical or political debate. It’s all about libido, and call it what you will, but but most people tend to socialise, even when it’s only sexually, with people that they feel culturally comfortable with.
I don’t dislike black males, but I am uncomfortable with black male culture as I perceive it. Perhaps if I knew more urbane, well educated, intellectual black males, I would feel differently, but for now, IF I was to use a device whose primary function is to facillitate sexual liasons, I would be damned sure to limit my parameters to people with whom I feel comfortable.
RLS
You know what I hate about these conversations? It’s that it turns gay people of color into pathetic little wimps whining about the white guys who don’t want to fuck them, and I’m black. I also find it curious that the only minorities the white guys here are exposed to are the ones who don’t date one another. I know PLENTY of black and Latino men who are exclusively into other black and Latino men. (I’m gonna leave Asians out of this because I’ve met only one in my life who was dating another Asian. And I’m curious to see if those who are whining about this alleged racism would even consider dating a black man)
There is definitely some social conditioning involved in attraction, especially in gay world where whiteness, maleness, and masculinity are worshipped above all else, but I’m not inclined to throw the racist label out there just because someone chooses not to sleep with a certain race.
I’ve been with all races. I happen to have stronger sexual chemistry with black guys and white guys. It just is.
Kev C
@Aiden: So if someone doesn’t want a smoker or drug addict, how would they indicate this in an advert? How about vegans who don’t date carnivores? These are reasonable requests. Should we only show “sensitivity” to black and asians? How about fat and bald people?
Saying what you don’t want spares people from personal rejection and prevents wasting time.
mark
It displays an intense ignorance when a young man can say that, without any exception, every single Asian/Black/Latino/etc guy that he could meet is not going to be attractive to him.
The decision to write off an entire race of guys can’t be based in anything but assumptions and stereotypes about that race. To talk of “preference” presupposes that you somehow know about all of these races already, and it’s not worth the time to look.
For some of the posters here to defend their right to be closed-minded in the name of “preference” shows a real lack of insight into their own blatant racist prejudices.
lemon-lime
@CBRad: Your first post is spot on. You can have preferences. They should be expressed using inclusive terms, not exclusive. IE: “I prefer lighter skin tones, muscular build, cut and masculine” still drips with some racist undertones, but it far less bigoted and rude than saying “No fried chicken, no chopsticks.”
A number of other posts have also hit the nail on the head here: If you are discounting an entire class of people because you perceive them all to share the same undesirable traits, you are, by definition, being racist. Racism doesn’t mean you want all X race to die or be hurt, it means you are prejudiced. Everyone is somewhat prejudiced, but to deny ones prejudices is a failure to know oneself.
If you don’t know yourself, how can you expect to know someone else in a truly intimate way?
@mike: If no “black” man has never made you pop a boner, that makes you racist, yes. I would suggest you take a long thought about what makes someone a “black” person in your mind. Is half black too black to give you a boner? How about if they have western looking features but come from 100% African ancestry? You paint with a brush so fucking wide that it betrays your obvious racism and lack of ability to discern the vast diversity within each race label.
Even if this weren’t true, internalized racism is still racism. It just means you can’t change it easily.
Shannon1981
@mike: You obviously believe there to be inherent differences based upon race and race alone. Perhaps you are afraid to examine why that is?
Parevenu
Dictionary queens please do your homework: “Preferring a specific race for anything is by its very definition racist.” That is not true. Racism generally implies a superiority of one race over another. This guy is no doubt a jerk, but this is to be seen everyday, everywhere. The fact is, the Internet has allowed us to narrowly define our pleasures in such a way that one might think it is a candy store. Asians, especially in Asia, love to say “Asians Only”…imagine someone saying white only. The horror!!! If you are of a certain age, beware, you will not be getting laid anytime soon. The Democratic Black caucus does not allow, you guessed it, white people. Racists? This is one of those words that gets tossed into the mix all too easily and dilutes the fact that real racism does exist. My advice to the so-called stud is, tell us what you want, not what you don’t want, otherwise, we might be inclined to want an old, thin-lipped haggard white man.
Lets Boil This Down
If you put such limitations in your profile you are: racist, evil, unworthy to breath air (and likely white)
If you think putting this in a profile is bad: you are right, just, better than everyone else, have the ability to walk on water and are in general a more evolved life form who has attained such a god-like status as to have the power to dictate the actions of others or admonish transgressions with a Zeusian wrath.
We beg of you: smite us not! We will learn not to have preferences. In fact, I am currently jabbing my eyes out as we speak so that I will have to feel my way through any given sexual landscape like a poorly lit bath house, fucking whomever and whatever I might encounter based solely upon their “essence” or “being” or “creative spirit”.
Refreshments to be served.
lemon-lime
@Parevenu: I’m pretty sure that “no blacks, no asians” pretty much says exactly what you’re saying. They think asians and blacks are “less than”. Comparing a caucus which seeks to promote equality to sexual partner physical attribute preferences is about the most egregious example of a false analogy I can think of. Also, I know plenty of gay men who are quite old and get plenty of action- from people roughly their own age. The horror!
Interesting
@RLS: Assuming you are black, you sound damaged. I’ve met enough damaged black men to recognize the signs.
Can you not see the point is to discuss social attitudes and how racism occurs in that context rather than us wanting White guys? If the truth be known, at the moment, while I am attracted to all races, I have been into one particular black guy. So my interest in this discussion certainly is not as you describe, but its interesting that you think it is.
The reason you sound damaged is that you go first to the idea that discussing racism and how it forms is a sign of the weakness of the minority discussing it rather than their recognition that social attitudes about race causes racism, and that it must be confronted in all its forms, just like homophobia should be, rather than allowed to fester.
That you perceive such a discussion as you do is a really fucked up view of life. If someone is kicking you (regardless of whether you want something from them or not), it is extremely damaged to respond to that kicking by saying its the guy being kicked who is at fault for having ever wanted something and then spoke up about the kicking. I don’t care if any of these guys want me. I do- however- care that their racism is a part of the greater society around me. I don’t want my kids to grow up in this mess.
I would say seek help, but I know you want.
Matt Jones
@gregory: Ha, I don’t think they are exactly missing out on something. Keep dreaming.
CBRad
This is all ridiculous : Some guys are only attracted to their own race, some ONLY to other races. Some guys like their own race and…maybe…one other race. Just like some guys like only men, and not women. Nobody is obliged to reflect on why that is, unless he wants to…as a fun exercise. My only objection is that specifying it in a “no this, no that” way in an ad can sound hurtful and offensive and….probably unecessary…because you can just deal with it afterwards if such a person even reponds.
RomanHans
Let’s change the discussion to age. If you don’t fuck 60-year-olds, are you ageist? I don’t think so. You know what you like, and you go for it. No explanation needed. And personally, if somebody turns me down, I like to know the reason, and I can attach the “asshole” label to them as required. Like, there’s a straight guy in my building who just likes Asian women, and the white women here think he’s rejecting them. Obviously the kind thing to do is tell them that it’s got nothing to do with them.
Interesting
@Parevenu: 50 some years of sociological research demonstrates that its racism. Its interesting to me how many people keep posting, some of them claiming to be black, that this is not a fact, and yet, there is all these readily available evidence online that it would take you a few minutes to Google.
Here are some
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1963768,00.html
Here’s a more thorough one:
http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2011/03/03/race-racism-and-online-dating/
I found all of this in under 5 minutes on the front page just because I am tired of reading the excuses over the years, and, I have to think you all for that- it made me look it up to further validated research that I had already seen on the subject.
Magnet
Gosh, how did RLS’ entry qualify him for counseling? He’s absolutely right. Seems to be the healthiest of attitudes.
jeff4justice
There’s an expression: hurt people hurt people.
The problem is not attraction. The issue is how people write offensively in their profiles. Instead of singling out a race in a profile as unwelcome, why not write what one is seeking instead? How many gay profiles do you see that read “No woman, no anti-gays, no people from Mars.”?
It’s a shame how much we LGBTs go on about “It Gets Better” and all the anti-bullying stuff when LGBTs cut each other down so much.
Whenever I see these profiles I initiate conversation asking guys why they write offensively as if they were anti-gay.
Instead of writing “no fats, no fems, no old people, no Asians” why not instead write “I am looking for in-shape, masculine, young, white (or whatever race) guys?”
Also, when I see profiles with “no fems” (or things like that) in profiles, I hit the guy up and tell him “Thanks! More fems for me!”
Interesting
@Magnet: Okay, now i know the other post and yours is a fake. It certainly does not indicate any mental issues if someone claiming to be a member of a group is saying “its your fault” to the group facing racism for pointing out that racism exists. That’s the height of mental height.
Interesting
not sure why these links aren’t showing up
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1963768,00.html#0_undefined,0_
http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2011/03/03/race-racism-and-online-dating/
CBRad
@jeff4justice: Yes, that’s what lemon-lime said up there. I agree. Make the ads in more inclusive terms (what you ARE looking for) rather than “no this, no that”. Much nicer.
Doug
@Interesting you are awesome! I want to be your friend, how can we make this happen?
fairly_short
It’s racism. It implies that all black people or all Asians or all [insert demographic here] are not attractive to you. That’s either because of who they are or because you hold unrealistic prejudiced stereotypes about a demographic.
CBRad
@fairly_short: Then insisting I’m not attracted to any woman is my own misogyny.
Shannon1981
To those saying that racism implies superiority- you are right. And to those who have wiped entire races from their dating pools obviously believe some races to be superior to others.
Aiden
@Kev C: If you say your only into white guys how can anyone be confused about that? If you don’t like fat guys. Then say you only like thins ones, you don’t bald ones you like hair. I’m not sure how anybody could possibly be confused by this.
Kev C
@Aiden: So you’re arguing for pragmatics? I’d like to see your personal ad: MUST USE PROPER SEMANTICS!
Talk about being prissy and selective.
Red Meat
@CBRad: or a parrot?
jeff4justice
This Grindr profile says it all:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=189228921151401&set=a.113204032087224.19100.100001928836946&type=1&theater
CBRad
@Red Meat: Yes, if I’m not sexually attracted to parrots it must be my own parrotophobia.
Jeremy
“If we all could just admit that we are racist a little bit. Even though we all know,That it’s wrong. Maybe it would help us get along” Q Avenue said it best. Look, Everyone has their preference. And let’s face it, that preference base on race. You think this racial beauty is more superior than the others. Now, isn’t that racist?? Maybe not at the extreme level like refusing to get to know someone because of their skin color. What I CANNOT stand from people is that they pretend to be this “oh, I don’t believe in race” but don’t have the gut to admit that they still make some racist personal decision. Confessing you are racist actually makes you look less than a dick that you already are.
Cinesnatch
By comparing sexual attraction to certain genders to sexual attraction to certain races is suggesting that sexual attraction to certain gender is socially conditioned.
Sexual attraction, for a huge chunk of the population is genetic.
Sexual attraction as a matter of race preference is largely socially conditioned. If you’re a white boy brought up in an Asian culture with Asian media sexualizing the gender you’re attracted to, chances are, you’re going to be sexually attracted to Asians.
It’s not rocket science.
jeff thompson
I agree with not stating certain races are turn off in your profile; it’s kinda rude. Nothing wrong with having preferences though. 🙂 It is humorous that different races may state ‘no white guys’ and no one complains.
CBRad
@Cinesnatch: So we have to insist that particular white boy start being attracted to other whites and blacks and Indians or else….he’s racist (in the negative sense) is what a lot of these posters are espousing.
Cinesnatch
The second paragraph should read “sexual orientation.”
fairly_short
@CBRad: How can you even equate the two? All women have a vagina, whereas all black people have what in common? There is a difference between sexuality and excluding people from your dating pool because of race, and if you can’t see that, you are a racist. Seems pretty cut and dry to me.
robco
People need to find a way to express what they are or aren’t looking for without being pricks about it.
Doug
@Interesting you are awesome! I want to be your friend, how can we make this happen? I think what people are missing is that race is a social construct i.e. we decide or have decided what we see as a different race. A good example of this that I’ve heard before is that there are 56 different ethnic groups in China and it is common for the Chinese to see groups they are not in as a different race. To us (Americans), though we see them all as Chinese and even more so we see the Chinese as part of a larger “race” that we call Asian. This group of Asians (that we see as one distinct “race”) includes people who’s heritage could have come from a huge geographic area, not limited to China, Japan, Korea, and India. Each of these places have a distinct and different ethnic culture as well as different genetic pools. How and why is it we consider these groups to be the same “race” when a Chinese person who’s family originated in China might see their neighbor, who’s family also originated in China, as a completely different “race” then them self. The answer is that “race” is a made up construct. When we as a society make up a construct we put labels and ideas on that construct and then reinforce those ideas back on to society. Those ideas influence how we see the world and what we like and don’t like. This is why the idea of physical human beauty has changed over time. We all have inherent bigotry especially racism and I think the only way to deal with it is to acknowledge it try to understand it and change it.
CBRad
@fairly_short: So what if women have a vagina ?? That’s just one difference. They also have breasts and eyes and arms and legs (like men do). Maybe gay men should seriously examine themselves about why they’re not attracted to women, if we’re going to insist they examine themselves about not being attracted to certain races.
CBRad
@robco: Very well put.
CBRad
What about those attracted to others because they have an inferiority complex? Like wealthy Jews from George Cukor to Calvin Klein who considered gentile boys the real romantic treasure to find. The real status-symbol as well. The “shiksa-god.” (There are all kinds of variations with this stuff, guys).
fairly_short
@CBRad: I see you have completely ignored my argument in favor of irrationality. You can’t compare the two. Well I suppose you could but it’s not relevant to the general discussion. It’s simply a red-herring, a logical fallacy so people get caught up in your sensationalism and ignore your ridiculous argument.
Saying “No Asians!” is racist. Saying, “I’m only sexually attracted to men.” is not sexist. The first implies there is no Asian anywhere in the world you would find attractive for whatever reason. It is an irrational prejudicial statement, fueled by some sort of narrow-minded superiority complex. It is bigotry. If you can’t see that, you are racist. Am I being clear? Are you getting this? Are you picking up what I’m laying down?
The second however is simple brain wiring. People are gay, or straight or bi or asexual or whatever they are. It cannot be helped, and it doesn’t need to be.
Interesting
@CBRad: No, you have to stop pretending that this is the conversation in order to justify your own bigotry. Its clear what you are doing. That is namely changing the subject. The subject isn’t at the end of the day about who you fuck personally as much as what your exclusions tells us about your social attitudes. We are interested in that. Since, this has been explained now multiple times, by multiple people, its obvious your attempt to deflect is guilt and/or the acts of someone who wants to manipulate. Once again- its about social attitudes. That’s our interest in this topic no matter how many times you try to pretend its sour grapes. Your comment indicates you are narcissistic.
dougdoug
@CBRad the sex of a person is not a social construct. Although the gender of a person is, so if ones dislike of a female is based on gender and not sex then I guess you are correct and people should give it a second thought, but I highly doubt that’s the case.
Interesting
@fairly_short: I have explained to him as well that he’s throwing out logical fallacies, and he keeps repeating it. At this point he’s either a troll or an idiot. I am going to go for it by saying he’s likely both.
Cinesnatch
@CBRad: I suppose it is a strain of racism. I can’t justify or dispute it, though. As a white guy, I am generally attracted to white guys, but not always. I recognize that is due in large part to the media presentation I’ve willingly or otherwise bought into and succumbed to.
In general, on dating profiles, I specify Caucasian/Hispanics as preferences, but I don’t go out of my way to say “No asian, no blacks, no indians.” And, if I receive a deluge of offers from a race that doesn’t fall into my preference, I’m also not driven to specify “No .” It doesn’t matter who hits on you. You accept it as flattery and move on if they’re not your cup of tea. Someone who has to decline and/or delete sexual advances from people they’re not interested in is probably leading a pretty privileged life. Although iIt can be depressing and or discouraging when we’re not hit on by the object of desire, there is no reason to act out of anger preemptively. I pity the guy pictured in the above post. He has a sense of entitlement I find revolting. But that’s just me.
I don’t specify “no grandpas,” either. One of these days, I’m going to be a grandpa. I don’t want to contribute to a culture that actively promotes ageism now or ever. I also hope I will be settled by that age and not looking for anything outside the partnership I have. God help me.
Cinesnatch
Damn me and my lack of understanding of html.
After I quote “No .” in the second paragraph, there should have been brackets saying
[insert race here]
RLS
God, these conversations are boring.
POC Gays: “Waaaaah!! White guys don’t like me because I’m obviously worthless without White attention!”
White Gays: “Waaaah! I’m not Racist it’s just how I AM! THEY are the REAL racists for trying to force me to be attracted to them!”
It’s all so very dreary. If you’re a gay POC who obsesses over what white men do with their dicks, get a life. If you’re a white guy who’s so dreadfully boring you’d never sleep with someone who isn’t practically your twin, live a little.
I’ve always thought the real issue is the lack of diversity in our media images (which coincidentally has been proven to influence perceptions of which groups are or aren’t seen as sexually desirable).
That is an interesting conversation which can be held up with cold hard facts.
This is bullshit.
MKe
It is crass and it does make you an asshole. Aside from race everyone discriminates over looks, but you don’t have to verbalize that. Also it’s disrepecting people that are on the sites to make friends and date(as well as hookup) because it’s just another thing that makes it so cheap and disgusting!!
Ray
@Interesting: Ugh no you are expected to believe some guys of color are so hung up on white guys they can’t take no for an answer without making it a racial issue. And as I said, I’ve never meet one of those guys that were into their own race. Those guys are few and far in between but they make a lot of noise and are the ones that have created this issue. Most guys of color actually do have the dignity to take a polite no as it was meant to be. You obviously aren’t one of those guys.
fairly_short
@Interesting: I’m in agreement with your assessment that he is in fact both.
fairly_short
We’re all just people aren’t we? Do we have to get so caught up in social constructs like race and looks and other such bullshit? Can’t we all just get along and fuck?
CBRad
@Cinesnatch: That all sounds fine to me.
CBRad
@fairly_short: That’s your opinion. I say if “no asians” = racism then “no women”= misogyny. You can decide they’re different, I see them as greatly the same thing. We have more than one sex, we have more than one race. People are attracted to others through biology, conditioning, something else, who knows? So leave people alone and let them like whichever sex or race they like without criticism.
ryanthehulk
I am all in favor of guys putting “no blacks” etc. on their profiles, makes it that much easier for me to put them on MY do-not-fuck list.
Interesting
@Ray: The Census data says, as I remember, that the highest number of most gay couples in the South are Black gay couples or people of color couples. In the NYC area, there’s data that indicates that the couples that are most numerous occurs in places like the Bronx, which are primarily Latino and Black couples. In my own life, half of my friends are black gay couples. This is how I know you are are a liar and full of shit.
Again, seek therapy. You clearly need it. The truth is that the conversation is wider than gays. It is a topic that has been researched for decades. What you are saying is the equivalent of saying that the sociological studies that show that black children preferred white dolls. Guess what- that’s about the same social attitudes that is pushed by the main stream. You are both lying about the prevalence of blacks search for whites and do not even understand what the hell the info you are providing means. Its yet another example even when true of how our society indoctrinates.
it makes people believe that white is better than any other race. The fact that whites also believe that is the subject matter at hand.
I honestly again do not expect this to get through the fog of your crazy posts, but the data is out there on many of these issues if any one cares to google it. I tried posting but the site keeps telling me the links are spam.
kawneekwa
Honey when it come to Asian men, I am all in. Lordy Jeezuz they is cute, handsome and whatevah!
Interesting
@RLS: Serious questions: (a) are you retarded? Do you not get racism is a subject that affects everyone, and that this is just a subset of a wider discussion that is out there about race in America? (b) If you are so bored, why are you here lecturing people you are bored by. Don’t you have better things to do with your time than whine that others aren’t talking about things you want to talk about? Grow up.
CBRad
@Cinesnatch: Some of it might be media-presentation on what is or what is not attractive, but don’t you think a lot of it comes down to real life experiences. Say a black kid is growing up, relatively segregated, in a black neighborhood. He’s realizing certain “types” of other guys in the neighborhood are turning him on. It becomes very deep within his head, early, as to what types of guys “push his buttons.” White men, when he encounters them, just don’t push those buttons. He sees them as non-sexual. Who is he to be criticized by placing an ad looking only for other black guys? (As long as he phrases it in a nice way, not like “…no whites!!”)
fairly_short
@CBRad: Fine, you are entitled to your idiocy. But please, realize this, it is idiocy. You are an idiot, and a racist. Great chatting with. Glad to see with such certainty that you are a horrible person.
Interesting
@CBRad: No, logic is not “opinion.” You are what’s wrong with the world today. fucking idiots who can’t even get when they are being shown logically how they are wrong saying its opinion. Its no opinion whether one’s attraction to same sex is intrinsic. Its not opinion that our norms of attractiveness of culturally specific. Things are things backed up (a) by data and (b) by lived experience. Even if you wanted to ignore (b), you can not, without becoming a nut job ranting, ignore (a). (a) forms the basis of reason in that it tells us whether arguments are just pure opinion or not. Your argument is pure opinion. Its also sophistry in the form of logical fallacies. You can not prove what you are saying. The reverse is not true of the arguments regarding same sex attraction versus racial attractiveness. There is not too much data for you to do that. So like most online idiots you tell everyone that its all just opinion. Its a cop out because you got nothing else better to say at this point considering several people have called you on your logical fallacies.
CBRad
@Interesting: No, there was no logic, mathematically, or scientifically, or anythingly that disproved, or even challenged, my idea that sexual-attraction and racial-preference are coming from the same sources (in many cases, anyway).
CBRad
Sadly, I’ve also read that a lot of white and Asian men won’t consider blacks as sex partners because they think, rightly or wrongly, there’s a greater chance of catching HIV. But, even if that’s the case with some Grindr ads, that’s still no excuse to phrase it so nastily with “no this no that”.
lika
COUNTERPOINT: This thread proves it does *NOT get better. Thanks racist, exclusionary gays!
CBRad
And I also hate the way these conversations reduce white gay men to only being white. Like they think of the world as White, Yellow, Black, and Brown. Within the varied NYC Caucasian world I know guys who say they’d never do it with someone of Italian descent, Protestants who won’t do it with a Catholic, some guys who’d never do it with a Jew and LOTS of guys who say they’d never touch a Russian.
WillBFair
Way, fu—– stupid.
missanthrope
It’s racist as fuck. Get over yourself and deal with it.
Ray
@Interesting: There you go right there. Proof you are the one with racial issues. All your black friends have black boyfriends and by your own data so do most other black guys. Yet you’re bitching about white people on grinder who you don’t know and will never meet because they are only interested in their own race just like your friends. So tell me how offended are you by your own friends?
lika
@missanthrope:
and how do you propose these kids get over it and deal with it? with pills or a gun to their heads?
talk about bullying *WITHIN the gay community.
Interesting
@Ray: No, you don’t need help. Not you.
Aiden
@Kev C: Now your just being willfully ignorant for the sake of it. And my profile says just what I suggested,my likes, not my dislikes.
Rod Black
@ryanthehulk: thats cute considering a black would fuck with you in the first place.Someone should put no douchebags in their profile then they wouldnt get any hit ups from ppl like you.
Kev C
@Aiden: The fact remains that you are arguing for semantics. And you want to impose your social values upon gay men in their personal lives.
And yet, you dare not impose those values onto straight people or minorities and their insensitive use of language. So while you’re nagging and beating up gays for blunt language, straights and minorities are still calling them fags and laughing at them because of nonsense like this.
Ray
@Interesting: And you just keep on thinking Martin Luther King marched and fought so you could get all the white dick you want and if you don’t get it you’re being oppressed.
Allen D.
So I have to have sex with everybody (including those I’m not attracted to) to prove that I’m not racist?
The thing that turns me off the MOST is redheads. So, what does that make me? Although I did date one for a little while… but he had the common decency to keep his head shaved.
steve
Okay so I’m not attracted to Indian, Asians and Black guys and not afraid to upfront and honest about it??
If that makes me racist then so be it.
Just to add to the confusion … some Arab guys are really hot and would love to bend over for
JM
@fairly_short: “How can you even equate the two? All women have a vagina, whereas all black people have what in common? There is a difference between sexuality and excluding people from your dating pool because of race, and if you can’t see that, you are a racist. Seems pretty cut and dry to me.”
All black people have dark skin in common. Dumbass.
For the thread in general…
Look, a good-hearted person should just phrase their ads in nicer ways. And, if they don’t, that’s a great indicator to potential partners that someone is an ass (in the bad sense). And if its racist to not enjoy fucking a big brown ass or a skinny white one (or whatever lurid combination of sexual act and skin colour you wish to insert), then it is… but it is also one’s preference, however racist. You can’t tell someone they should fuck more of group X. There is no affirmative action in dating. It doesn’t work that way.
The question I think is more pertinent is: should we be attaching a label as loaded as ‘racist’ to people who have a sexual preference (however culturally derived, and unfair, it may be) when the same label is applied to the KKK? Is not wanting to fuck an Asian akin to burning crosses? Or is it more likely that *everyone* has biases about *every* aspect of *everyone* else (hence all the *-ists) – and that a mild dose of that is not necessarily poison? I think it is the specter of the more horrific, systematic, and extreme judgment of others based on race that has us all so spooked.
And to put things in context… it’s not just us white dudes who can be pretty insensitive. Last month I was told by a black man (who, fwiw, was both attractive to me, and a complete jerk) that I had “one of them skinny white butts.” Stones, glass houses, etc.
Moral of the story: statistics mean nothing with respect to the individual. But when you’re trolling the ‘net for ass, then you must play the odds, and that involves stating your preferences as carefully as you would a Google search. Just try not to be too much of a jerk about it.
Lefty
@Allen D.: But redheads are human too, y’know? :'(
Little Kiwi
the best part about Zach’s “rebuttal” is that he completely and utterly ignored the point, and indeed main argument, of the article in Fab Magazine.
the article is about the language people use in online profiles, and its effect of perpetuating the feelings of racial prejudice and inequality that exist in culture. about the revealing nature of the words we use, and our “defense” of using them.
Zach, from thesword.com, chooses instead to flippantly scream about “freedom of speech!” and “don’t censor me!”
too bad nobody was trying to censor his “freedom of speech”, eh? nope. it was asking him to think about what he says. but he’d rather not think. about anything. he’d rather just ramble.
so many people on here just revealed what complete idiots they are.
*”I say if “no asians” = racism then “no women”= misogyny.”*
Too bad orientations and concepts of attraction are to wholly separate things. Orientations are innate, concepts of attraction and beauty are societal. Fact. too have a “different opinion” is to have an uninformed opinion that can only survive if one chooses to ignore factual sociological reality.
it’s amazing the willful ignorance on display on this thread, and in other threads dealing with this topic. a whole lot of white boys insisting that they’re somehow immune the greater culture of White Straight Male Worship that we’ve all been born into.
and worse, you ignore the main theses of these discussions – the language people use. instead, we get a bunch of losers saying “you can’t tell me who i’m allowed to fuck!” No, numbnuts. A whitestraightmale-worshipping culture has already made your choice for you. They dictated it, you followed suit. All the idiots defending this nonsense are likely the same boys still sucking up for the Conditional Tolerance of too many people in their lives. I pit you.
to my non-white brothers and sisters, you’ll have to forgive these assholes. Being white is apparently all they have left.
by all means, be proud of your stunted inability to see
Kitkat
@Allen D.:
No, Allen, you don’t have to sleep with everybody to prove that you aren’t a racist. You prove it by being polite. I guess you haven’t been following any of the discussions, so I guess that proves that you are ignorant.
Little Kiwi
Zachary Sire is SOOOOO right.
there’s noting remotely resembling learned societal racial prejudice about this guy:
http://littlekiwilovesbauhaus.blogspot.com/2011/08/thats-just-racism.html
and this guy TOTALLY isn’t the victim of internalized homophobia due to insecurity for being gay in an anti-gay world:
http://littlekiwilovesbauhaus.blogspot.com/2011/09/carrying-self-hatred-into-adulthood.html
right. yeah. nothing remotely prejudiced by saying “no fats fems asians or blacks” – yeah. totally.
Lefty
@Little Kiwi: “to my non-white brothers and sisters”
Do you have any idea how offensive that is?
Someone isn’t black, according to you. No, they’re “non-white”. You’re categorising them by what they’re not, as though there are white people and everyone else is just “non-white”.
It’s like saying we’re not “gay”, we’re “non-heterosexual”.
Ever heard of black power? “Black and proud”? It wasn’t “Non-white power” or “non-white and proud” — can you understand why that was the case? Take your time now…
(or you could just say ‘you’ve proved my point for me, lefty! you are so ignorant and RACIST douchebag numbnuts, grow some orbs – down with patriarchy — now, read my blog…. pleeeaaasseeeee?’)
Lefty
I has red about this topix for five minutes on wikipedia and am now be expert on wite privlige
will now tell you all truth about you are be racists
Jonathonz
I don’t use online hookup services anymore just because the scene brings out the worst in people including myself. I left it behind and am glad I did.
SluttyNutty
Geez, gay men are so sad and predictable. I think I’ll become a lesbian.
BubbasBack
It’s all Obama’s fault! Burp.
delurker
@steve: It doesn’t make you a racist, but it makes you a fucking asshole to be so proud about it. I sincerely hope this helps. 🙂
Ian
So… hypothetically: a black guy (whether of African or other descent) is genuinely attracted to other black guys. He’s always found other black guys attractive and has relationships mostly with other black guys. According to a lot of the comments here, this hypothetical guy is a racist IF he states that he’s attracted to black guys and wants to be in relationship with other black guys. Absurd.
Little Kiwi
hey Lefty, you proved me right. yet again.
this topic really brings out people’s true colours. pun intended.
you apparently don’t realize that there are other ethnicities out there besides black and white. typical.
enjoy feeling brave from the anonymity of your nameless/faceless/URL-free online posting. no wonder daddy was ashamed of you. wimp.
Mike in Asheville
Certainly it is acceptable for everyone to announce their personal preferences when meeting another for personal relations. We all have our quirks, preferences and desires.
What it not acceptable and is most certainly racist, is when one denounces those for whom they have no desires.
Saying who you would like to meet, fine by me. But I detest and have always found it racist, to say NO BLACKS, NO ASIANS, NO JEWS instead saying into white guys with bubble butts.
And to those who view desire through racial lenses, including Asians only into Asians, blacks only into blacks or whites only into white, I always have enjoyed variety and variety has been oh so spicy hot fun. You guys are missing out on a lot of fun; but if that’s not truly your thing, well make sure you enjoy what you enjoy. Just don’y be an asshole to others.
Little Kiwi
Well said, Mike in Asheville.
what’s amazing is the pathetic number of doomed-for-life white guys on here who keep saying “you cant’ tell me what to fuck!”
*yawn*
nobody’s said that, you half-wits. we’re asking you to interrogate yourselves, your beliefs – why you like what you like. it’s not “just because” – when it comes to what you find attractive you are wholly influenced by society and culture and how you did, or did not, fit in. symbols of status, rank, and desirability as dictated by a world that values Whiteness, Maleness, and Heterosexuality above all else.
It seems, alas, that some of you are utterly incapable of any form of introspection. that’s ok. it’ll be your downfall in life.
Isaiah
@gregory: OMG. Are you that funny or that stupid? How could you possibly know what you might find attractive about people you have not met, seen or heard? You are entitled to your “preferences” in life, but damn, your statement is just plain dumb.
Little Kiwi
someone said, of this topic, “why can’t you just accept that the guy isn’t into you”?
that’s the point the idiots are missing. it’s not that he’s “not into you” – it that’s he doesn’t even SEE you.
it’s a case of “He’s just not into your entire ethnic group. Because you all look the same, apparently”
he’s not “not into you” – he’s not into your skin colour. your ethnicity. the turn-off is you ethnicity.
right. there’s nothing remotely racially charged about that. yeah. right….
anon
There are differences among racism, racial bigotry and racially based sexual preferences:
Example of racism: “White people should rule the world; members of non-white racial backgrounds shouldn’t be able to vote; certain racial groups should be deported, exterminated, etc”
Example of racial bigotry: “Black people are dirty; I don’t like Mexican people because of _____; I wouldn’t trust an Asian cab driver.”
Example of racially based sexual preferences: “I only like to have sex with other white people.”
Racism is the worst of the three; it implies beliefs about the distribution of power, civil rights and resources. Not hiring someone because they are black is racist because it implies the use of power to deny benefits based on race.
Bigotry isn’t as bad as racism, but can fuel racism. Bigotry consists of unfounded beliefs, stereotypes and judgements about others but without the additional attachment of power to those beliefs, which is necessary for racism. Thus your grandfather can ramble about how dirty he thinks Mexican people are, but as long as he’s not preaching that Mexican people should be forcibly removed (or voting for proposals that would do this/supporting candidates who advocate this/etc) then we couldn’t accuse your grandfather of racism.
Racially based sexual preferences may be rooted in bigotry and even racism, but don’t imply it. Sexual preferences are a constellation of our individual socialization, which may indeed include bigotry or racism, but also includes a multitude of non-racial factors, or factors that may have a racial component but aren’t the product of actual beliefs held by the individual (example: a person is only attracted to other white people because he/she grew up among only white people; its not that he/she likes whites because he/she has beliefs about non-whites).
Thus it isn’t fair to accuse a person who expresses racially based sexual preferences of bigotry or racism. Indeed, if we continue to work on REDUCING racism and bigotry in our society, then we’ll likely observe less racially-based sexual preferences out there to the extent that these concepts overlap. But overlap doesn’t imply both or all.
Little Kiwi
fine they’re not “racist” – they’re just “Sexually Stunted by Ethnicity Issues”
what’s amazing is how people defend their right to be stunted. way to pick the wrong battle for the wrong reasons, chumps.
Tommy Shepherd
I don’t want to have sex with Zachary Sire. Does that make me a racist? Or just discerning and tasteful?
Little Kiwi
@Tommy Shepherd: AMEN!
I have racist preferences, too. As in, I prefer to not hook up with racists.
😀
i can’t help it. it’s my preference. i’m not into guys with ethnic preferences. 😀
Ian
@Little Kiwi: So, let’s make sure we’ve got this: According to you, a) anyone who has a preference of any sort is “sexually stunted by ethnicity issues,” and, b) anyone who finds others of one race/ethnicity or another sexually attractive is a racist. Great. Thank god we have that cleared up.
Jigae
It’s hard to believe Queerty’s not just trolling for comments with this post. Did it really add anything to the discussion that hadn’t already appeared in the comment section?
Little Kiwi
@Ian: actually, none of this is “according to me” – it’s according to sociological reality.
“According to you, a) anyone who has a preference of any sort is “sexually stunted by ethnicity issues,”
I never once said that. try again.
” b) anyone who finds others of one race/ethnicity or another sexually attractive is a racist.”
i never said that, either. try again.
if you can’t see the PERSON and can only see THE ETHNICITY then you have an issue with that ethnicity. you can’t say “i’m not into blacks” and then claim to have no issue with the ethnicity. your issue IS the ethnicity. you’re saying that all black poeple are collectively unappealing because all black people are, to you, the same.
they’re not people. they’re blacks. they’re asians. they’re not a collection of individuals.
keep proving me right, boys.
Kyle
All of these apps give the user about 100 characters to describe who they are and what they are looking for. Sensational! That’s like 2 whole sentences. Perfect for getting to know if a person will or will not give you anal warts!
If you use that brief area to say “No fats, asians, whites, blacks, etc” that is acceptable. It’s a (mostly) free country and that is how you choose to present yourself to all the gays within several feet of you. There is nothing wrong with that. Just know that there may be consequences besides having a “D” as dry as the Atacama.
We as gay men have brains. Big ones. Even though at times our vocabulary is about as extensive as “s’up?” and still have trouble taking self pictures on an IPhone with a camera on both sides(Who needs a face when you have a “V”?), we realize that most likely you are only looking for something about as deep as about 5-12 inches on average and as exciting as a bucket of wallpaper paste and that is fine! It’s Grindr, not The Economist. Let your pretentious flag fly! But know that people who read your profile may internalize it. Over think it. Make that moment a bigger part of their reality than it should. The reader may even begin to feel varying levels of worthlessness based on what you and others have said on a hookup app. Who knew stating your preferences in such a harsh way could cause such a harsh reaction? Goodness!
Folks the reality is this, it’s Grindr. Or Scruff. Or whatever website/app of the minute. It is not your entire family and friend base calling you and saying “We hate that you have brown skin, no body fat, and wear glasses” then cutting you out of their lives. It’s some guy online. Online! He isn’t even in person! He may not even be a person! Why are you letting the words of one guy (or several) that you will most likely never know beyond the world of 1’s and 0’s affect you so much?
Stop it. Move on and talk to the guy who will respect you – “flaws” and all.
Guys who state preferences in a harsh way: Think before you write. Find a way to get your point across about who you are physically attracted to without looking like a jackass.
Little Kiwi
thing is, Kyle, I’m white. I’m white and I’m one who calls out this bullshit for what it is. It doesn’t affect “me” – it affects others. I have empathy. “no fats fems asians or blacks” – yes. Seeing it in a profile is a great Asshole Indicator – you know to move on because the guy is a fucking idiot. However, doesn’t mean that seeing a great Sea of Idiots online doesn’t have its negative side-effects to people who already feel marginalized.
We still live in a white-worshipping culture. racial bias and prejudice and bigotry is as alive as ever, it’s just become a bit more subversive. “no blacks and asians” and talk like that keeps it alive.
“Guys who state preferences in a harsh way: Think before you write. Find a way to get your point across about who you are physically attracted to without looking like a jackass.”
Amen, brother.
I’m just stunned by the number of guys who show how little they think about others. They don’t see people, they don’t see individuals, they don’t see people of worth with feelings and lives. They only see them as “blacks”. or “an asian” – that in itself reeks of racism.
disco lives
Gays…grow up. Straight people aren’t even having discussions like this…they’re busy living in the real world.
americanfitch66
and shame on Queerty for spotlighting this JACKASS. Telling someone you’re not sexually attracted to them based on the skin color or weight or age or hair color or eye color or ice cream preference is purely judging someone before taking the time to actually get to know them. Being gay, people have always applauded us for being more open and accepting of others, but as a young biracial gay guy living in Texas…i quickly discovered this is not true. Sex seems to be one hang up that haunts and lingers the gay community. It’s the one thing that makes me ashamed to be gay sometimes. And i really think straight conservatives and liberals alike, pick up on. We are still judged on the fact that WE cant even get our own sexuality together.
Parevenu
There is always one person you love who becomes that definition. It usually happens retrospectively, but it happens eventually. This is the person who unknowingly sets the template for what you will always love about other people, even if some of these lovable qualities are self-destructive and unreasonable. The person who defines your understanding of love is not inherently different than anyone else, and they’re often just the person you happen to meet the first time you really, really, want to love someone. But that person still wins. They win, and you lose. Because for the rest of your life, they will control how you feel about everyone else.
john
Of course its racist. How is this even a discussion? You can’t possibly know every person of every race so clearly you’re making a generalization. Also if you say ur gay and you look at Taye Diggs or (insert multiple athletes here) and say nope just doesn’t do it for me any of them-Yes you are a racist- its the absolute terms… One other thing though I have a friend who is ONLY into black guys. I don’t think he’s racist against his own race but I do think he makes some assumptions about black men as a positive just as those who exclude make assumptions in the negative.
americanfitch66
But in the same capacity, would anyone ever actually date or even consider dating someone who has such ridiculous preferences? Anyone who says that rubbish, with lists and lists of all of the things they dont want or “just prefer” and relies on gay social networks and hook-up sites, will always be alone. I GUARANTEE, no matter how “hot” they are, not matter how “eligible” they are, they will always remain sad and alone because truth be told, no one will ever be perfect enough for them.
Little Kiwi
@americanfitch66: yup. and they’re always the ones who go around complaining about the “the lack of really great guys”
“Ugh, i just want a decent guy to date! why can’t i find one!?”
because you’re not one yourself and therefore don’t’ fucking deserve one.
americanfitch66
@john: I cant agree with you more! So strange because i have a friend who is the same way and i wonder where lies the line between fetishism and pure attraction. I think if you look back at your past relationships and you see one common trend in the last 3…more than likely its a fetish.
Jason
@steve: Well, this Arab guy finds you a total twit, and would bend you over only to throw you over my shoulder and throw you down the trash chute.
John
@americanfitch
Agreed and also a discussion of racial fetish would have been far more interesting than this drivel. I have been accused of having a black fetish before but I don’t I just don’t have any racial hangups whatsoever (well-educated, progressive, etc) Alas queerty has failed to push the conversation pass banal observation.
PS. I can’t even believe people are coming in and saying “Its not racist… you’re whining”
PissOf
Lot of high horses.
Bryan
@SluttyNutty: I know, I don’t base how I feel about being gays on the behavior of others, but the LGBT community especially the G can be really shallow and vain, it’s kinda disheartening.
I don’t really get the race preference and how you can exclude an entire race from your dating pool. Each race has a particular feature common to it, but it’s not like everyone in that race are one and alike. You could say I don’t like Black guys because of bla bla bla, but then not all Black guys have that feature, so to just exclude all of them is stupid.
fairly_short
@JM: Really? You really just said that? LMAO. I know a guy, both his parents darkest skinned people I’ve ever met, he’s albino. What up with that?
Aiden
@JM: No, all black people don’t have dark skin.
Little Kiwi
“high horses”? not at all. in only appears that way to those who are crawling on their bellies in the mud.
Gay Veteran
@Little Kiwi: Thank you. Unfortunately your knowledge is lost on these idiots. They have their blinders on and wouldn’t see the point, that you’re doing an amazing job of explaining, even if you smacked them in the damn face with it.
They’ll rather continue being racist and closed minded idiots.
And to the Kyle guy: The problem is that most of the gay community doesn’t see the ignorance of that “one guy” online. If I go on a racist rant and the majority of the people don’t flinch… instead they defend… isn’t it safe to say that they’re just as racist as I am. Failing to call out someone on their ignorance is just as bad as being the ignorant person yourself.
ScrewKiwi
Kiwi
you seem to have alot of time on your hands: start a blog, get a job, go to a protest, stop acting superior.
Bryan
@Aiden: Exactly! And that’s my issue with when people use a feature they don’t like that might be common to a particular race, let’s say big noses and then exclude that entire race. It’s no different from saying all Asians look alike, which is kinda racist.
Little Kiwi
i’m not acting “Superior” – I consider myself terribly average. It only seems “superior” to those of you who project your inferiority complexes onto others. And I have a blog, i attend protests and I have a job. Being a writer pays, you can work from home. You’re no big man at all making comments from the safety of online Anonymity. Grow a pair 😀
americanfitch66
@Little Kiwi: Uuuummmmmm you’re my hero! I could not agree more with everything you are saying and for those too ignorant or drunk off of the punch to realize or at least be open to that…I feel very sorry for them.
i’ve always thought, if you are so desperate to find someone awesome and perfect and amazing, than why don’t you pleeease first take a step back and take a look at yourself and ask “Am I a person that I would date?” Would you want to date a person who cant see past the way you were born? Would you want someone to have an assumed judgement in their head before even knowing your first name? I’m sorry, but if you have hangups (tag it as ‘preference’ all you want) that involve things like race and weight or age, you are not someone that I want to invite into my life. Simple as that.
Sheesh
How self-centered and manipulative is this? It doesn’t MATTER why someone isn’t attracted to you and they don’t have to be polite or explain shit to you. God, you people are so self-centered and simultaneously self-loathing. I don’t sniffle in my pillow at night because I’m really attracted to furry muscle gods but they almost always seem only attracted to their own. Hard for me to get a foot in there, but I do from time to time. I shake it, and keep mounting that horse (hung dude).
americanfitch66
@ScrewKiwi: I agree, he should start his own blog. I’d read every article.
Since when did having a voice and opinion mean you believed you are superior? Granted, I can understand why the ignorant would remain quite; but i’d hate to miss out on someone who actually stood up for what they believe in and could support their beliefs intelligently. Which he’s done, and you clearly have not.
Ian
@Little Kiwi: Kiwi, even when you make good points you come across as sanctimonious. Disagree with you and one becomes a “mud crawler”, etc. High horses indeed.
Chad
There’s a major difference between writing “I’m not attracted to (insert race(s) here)” and writing blatant racism like I saw one guy’s grindr profile that just said, “The rice pickers are taking over!”
Then you have non-black men saying how much they like black men but they write about how much they love “big black dick” and other horrible racist stereotypes.
The Kyle Guy
“And to the Kyle guy: The problem is that most of the gay community doesn’t see the ignorance of that “one guy” online. If I go on a racist rant and the majority of the people don’t flinch… instead they defend… isn’t it safe to say that they’re just as racist as I am.
Failing to call out someone on their ignorance is just as bad as being the ignorant person yourself.”
I see your point and will interject with this:
The gay community as a whole notices the problem and has for a long time. Racism is not new, gay, or American – it’s a part of the human condition. So to simply call out gays as not seeing the ignorance is not true. As a subset of the human culture, the fact that we are having this conversation shows that we are not blind to this issue and are determined to talk about it. Ad Nauseum. The fact remains, besides talk, what are many of us doing about it?
If some guy online/on a app has a profile that says something shitty like “no black guys” do I bother talking to him? No. Why waste my breath and time? Besides, while he may be human, he is not the kind of human I want to spend time with. Clearly other good people share my sentiment.
– If people hear a racist rant and defend it, they are probably racist as well. I agree.
But that is not the point.
No one here as far as I can tell is defending racism. Most people are defending their right to freely date who they want. In their brains they have an idealized vision of what they want out of their life. This vision is different from yours or mine so we can not say anything about it. If the guy sees himself with a Native American investment banker from Missouri with 2 kids, a white picket fence, and a black Range Rover then who am I to judge? That is what he wants for his life and is his dream. Hell he could even put that as his profile – who am I to tell you exactly what to say with your 100 character limit?
Also, I will know very clearly what you are looking for. It is not me.
However, when you say something like “no blacks, asians, or femmes you sound, look, and smell like an asshole because you are an asshole…on Grindr. It’s harsh, grating, and gets a lot of unwanted attention from hundreds of guys on Queerty.com.
This is the problem with apps like Grindr. People have the audacity to act in a harsh manner because the nature of the app is harsh. Grindr isn’t a cuddly and warm place of hot cocoa and kumbaya…
As a black man I have been on the receiving end of a lot of the stereotypes we are discussing here. My point was that we as a people need to look beyond these phone apps and websites for validation of attractiveness. So what some guy does not date black/native american/white/Latino/Asian/martian/blue/orange guys…That is his business and his life. Now, if he is causing you harm in some way (let’s say calling you out of your name, physically threatening you, whatever), then it is your business. Until that point though, keep it moving and let that person be.
SteveyC
“…how to delineate when and where something stops being a “preference” and starts being racist?”
The same way you delineate “anti-racism” from pushing white genocide i.e you can`t:
Africa for the Africans,Asia for the Asians,white countries for EVERYBODY!
Everybody says there is this RACE problem. Everybody says this RACE problem will be solved when the third world pours into EVERY white country and ONLY into white countries.
The Netherlands and Belgium are just as crowded as Japan or Taiwan, but nobody says Japan or Taiwan will solve this RACE problem by bringing in millions of third worlders and quote assimilating unquote with them.
Everybody says the final solution to this RACE problem is for EVERY white country and ONLY white countries to “assimilate,” i.e., intermarry, with all those non-whites.
What if I said there was this RACE problem and this RACE problem would be solved only if hundreds of millions of non-blacks were brought into EVERY black country and ONLY into black countries?
How long would it take anyone to realize I’m not talking about a RACE problem. I am talking about the final solution to the BLACK problem?
And how long would it take any sane black man to notice this and what kind of psycho black man wouldn’t object to this?
But if I tell that obvious truth about the ongoing program of genocide against my race, the white race, Liberals and respectable conservatives alike say I am a naziwhowantstokillsixmillionjews.
They say they are anti-racist. What they are is anti-white.
Anti-racist is a code word for anti-white.
tallest
@SteveyC: You’re full of it. Most ridiculous thing I’ve seen recently.
Chris
@SteveyC: I think your on wrong site. Here comes correct URL you were looking for: http://www.stormfront.org
Best of luck.
Dan
If you ask someone if they want to see a film, and they say no horror films – rather than listing every other genre of film they do want to see which would take a lot longer to list – that is simply expediency of language. Don’t be bitter that English has the words “No” and “Not” which makes listing things quicker and less verbose.
Also, no means no. If you are trying to guilt people into having a sexual relationship with anyone – for whatever reason – that puts you in the sex offender category. If you tell other people they “must be sexually attracted” to someone else for whatever reason otherwise they are screwed up – that is the same claims rapists make – that the other person is evil for not feeling the attraction. No means no. Stop trying to dictate other people’s attractions. Adults can make up their own mind.
Por Supuesto
@Me: using the word “trannies” in such a context kinda makes you sound transphobic
ewe
Yes I’m racist! It’s my business and my problem. So there! Take that!
Lefty
@The Kyle Guy: Excellent post x
PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS
As a guy that one of my most favorite flavors of Gay is Asian it puzzles me as to why one would exclude them from your hook preferences………….
However the last time I looked I kinda sorta remember there being a picture attached to a grinder profile……If ya don’t like what ya see don’t reply…….
MikeE
@PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS: you realize that a racial “preference” is a form of “discrimination” as well?
ie: the expression “discriminating taste”.
There are even those who might say that a “preference” for a particular racial characteristic is a form of racism (I think it’s silly, but I HAVE seen the argument made).
For myself, I’m not immediately attracted to any particular racial characteristics. If a man is handsome, it doesn’t matter whether he’s black, asian, caucasian, whatever. A cute guy is a cute guy… unless he’s a redhead. They don’t have souls. Cartman even said so.
Astro
Sexual Racism Sux
http://www.sexualracismsux.com
no one is telling people what or who to be attracted to, but maybe to (big effort) dig down and look at the language you use and see if its damaging to other people
and even bigger effort, ask why do you feel that way. So you don’t like Asians. What do you SPECIFICALLY don’t like about Asians?
it baffles me to think that people dont think society and media colors their perception of life. you are bombarded of images of beauty the second you get out of the womb. not only that but whats masculine whats feminine, what do men do, what do girls do, etc.
i think maybe people skipped their Soc and Psych 101 classes
Ian
@Astro: Honestly, I’ve been around a bunch of years and I’ve done a lot of soul-searching, self-reflection, etc. I’m also careful about language. And yes, I’ve taken psych and sociology 101 and more. So reflecting on the language we use is one thing, calling others racist because they have a preference is another. That’s the problem with many of the comments in this thread — they equate having a preference with being racist. Personally, I would never say “no Asians” or “no whites”, etc. But the fact that I am attracted to black guys or latin or Asian or white guys doesn’t make me a racist. (some in this thread make it sound as though anyone who has a preference in terms of attraction is either a racist or a rube in need self-reflection)
Continuum
Sexual attraction is a strange thing.
Am I racist if I write that I prefer mixed-race Asian men, or that I prefer blonde, blue-eyed muscleheads.
Tricky subject.
If your renting rooms in a hotel, it’s certainly racist.
But, if you offering space in your butt, I’m not so sure that it is.
Certain types of guys turn me on, and others don’t.
Little Kiwi
“Certain types of guys turn me on, and others don’t.”
And if those ‘types’ hinge on entire ethnicities then you need to ask yourself WHY, because it’s not innate.
if you can’t see An Individual, you can only see “a black” or “an asian” then you’ve already bought into societal racism.
we live in a world that worships straightness, maleness, and whiteness above all else. “no fats fems asians or blacks”
make the connection. you dont’ like what you like, “just because”, this is different from Orientation. You like what you like based on what culture has dictated to be beautiful. some people rise above and challenge it, some people fall in line.
Chitown Kev
I mean, sure have all the preferences that you wish but when you put your business out in the street like that with the “NO ____________” ads, don’t complain when folks walk over your feet.
There’s a way to do things without being obnoxious and offensive.
Dan
@Little Kiwi In the other post on this subject, you mentioned you are in a mixed-ethnic relationship. That makes you the worst racist of all – the do-gooder racist who thinks they aren’t racist themselves. A non-racist wouldn’t feel the need to ever describe their relationship in race terms at all yet you felt compelled to defend your purported non-racism by invoking race, revealing that you view yourself above others because of racial characteristics of your purported significant other. Sanctimonious do-gooder racists are the worst because they are hypocrites.
And you never actually provide any scientific basis for your assertions, merely your opinion presented as fact. You are also delusional when it comes to asserting “a world that worships straightness, maleness, and whiteness above all else”. Most of the planet is not white, so your assertion would mean that everyone who is not white is insane because that is the only way the “world” could “worship straightness, maleness, and whiteness above all else.” Which means you are dating a crazy person according to your own assertion. That is obnoxious. YOU might worship such things but don’t place that onto “the world” without acknowledging that only through the vast participation of people who are not white would that even be possible.
Little Kiwi
right. because the guy i’m dating now is mixed-race makes me a do-gooder racist. totally. pointing out that my boyfriend is of mixed-ethnicities makes me a do-gooder racist. yeahhhhh.
i don’t describe my relationship “in race terms” – yet mentioned in relation to this discussion, because in case you hadn’t noticed it’s been a discussion on race and ethnicity. 😉
You Dan, from the safe little confines of anonymity, are a coward and an idiot who has yet to make even one intellectually valid point. Keep it up – every comment you make only proves me right.
Ian
@Little Kiwi: “if you can’t see An Individual, you can only see “a black” or “an asian” then you’ve already bought into societal racism.”
That’s where your whole argument falls apart, Kiwi. You conflate a) having a sexual attraction/preference with b) an inability to “see an individual” as a human being, not just some abstract “white” or “black”, etc. So I think I get what you’re trying to say — that we should lead an “examined life” and understand the root of our preferences and behaviors. That’s great, but you then make a huge error/leap by saying that anyone who has a preference is either a racist or some naive rube who hasn’t considered the issue.
BTW, this is coming from a white guy who 1) is attracted to guys of a variety of races/ethnicities, 2) is in a long term relationship with someone of a different race/ethnicity of my own, 3) does self-reflection and cares about how we use language, and 4) works for civil rights and justice. I’ve taken time to examine my own repressed racism/classism. I care about the issue AND I happen to be attracted to a lot of black guys and latino guys. Whether that attraction is caused by society or culture, it does not, per se, make me a racist. Get it?
arlco
for all i know that white guys are into mostly white and latino/mexican guys even with white looks in the gay community….i haven’t gone to gay bar or club for 12 yrs because of that. it’s still the same plms ever since. to me, yes it’s still a racist and bullying…that’s how i see it!. white guys are like the angry men i’ve witnessed it, the same goes for latino/mexican guys who are also angry men too…hatred toward asians/pacific islanders and looks down on em’ too.
Little Kiwi
“. I’ve taken time to examine my own repressed racism/classism. I care about the issue AND I happen to be attracted to a lot of black guys and latino guys. Whether that attraction is caused by society or culture, it does not, per se, make me a racist. Get it?”
what makes one a racist is not what they like, but how they are about it. how it’s expressed. add on to that the complete unwillingness of many to interrogate themselves on their attractions and you get what i’m talking about.
you took the time to examine your own repressed racism and classism. as did i in my late teens and early twenties.
when one says “i’m not into blacks” what they’re saying is “i can’t see the individual, i can only see The Blackness”
there’s no way around it – if your preference is an exclusion of an entire ethnicity then you have an issue, perhaps subconscious, with that ethnicity. if the ethnicity is the specific turn-off, then it’s indicative of a greater issue. there’s no way around that.
SexyJamaican
@Little Kiwi: I like you, you tell it like it is and some of these preference whores don’t like to be called out.@ewe: Meth is a Muthafucka. A hardkore racist will ALWAYS see yo ass as a faggot no matter how racist you claim to be.
Dan
@Little Kiwi as other readers have no doubt noticed, you have also consistently called anyone who doesn’t bow to your idealogy a misguided white gay guy. That makes you a racist because you have no clue other people’s race when you make such statements. Such a hypocrite.
Foxy Loxy
Boy were my parents right when they said living a gay lifestyle was destructive and horrible. You people are the worst of the worst. Gay AND Racist. I’m white, and have cut-off several “friends” because of their racist attitudes. Here is the problem though. They are only racist in the gay community. They are completely afraid of people outside of the gayborhood. Why? Because other white men who are straight HATE THEIR GUTS.
Ian
@Foxy Loxy: Oh Foxy, you silly douchebag.
Jim
You’re correct.I’m an old coot, and in my time, I haven’t seen many black men or Asian men I have been attracted to. I think that’s just me and what I like. I don’t think it’s racist. But, I wouldn’t put up such an obnoxious, exclusive ad.
I do think, however, that everyone has hang ups with race and prejudice. We just have to deal with those feelings and do what’s right in life, the workplace, and the voting booth.
Wired
@Jim: As an old coot, how many WHITE MEN are attracted to YOU now? My guess in NONE. LOL. It’s funny because it’s true.
Z Zing
@mike: Oh lord, when I hear another ugly arsehole (in every sense of the word), tell me what his preferences are? Let me hold myself back from wanting to hurl!
It’s sick and twisted with these asininse twats posting these racial taunts because of their skewed version of themselves. Only arseholes sit there in their self-agrandisement of “no this, that or the other” when in reality – no-one wants you not even yourself.
So whilst everyone takes a walk down race relations … take a moment and start pointing that preferential at yourselves. I mean really, when the hell are gay men (ESPECIALLY Caucasian gay men) ever going to grow up?
ethon72
WHY some PEOPLE cant SIMPLY STATE WHAT YOU actually Looking for when you do have a specific preference !!!!! No need to be rude and ‘exclude’sive.
If u cant be decent about of language usage, cant help u being accused of being a racist.
Mike
@Julian:
How about posting a link to such a study. If I like dark haired buys more than blonds is that social conditioning?
You claim doesn’t pass the sniff test and without a link to the study then what you are saying is also nothing more than opinion.
Little Kiwi
mike: here’s a start
http://youtu.be/r2YniMB51Rw
and feel free to, you know, educate yourself instead of sitting there not doing your own homework. you can’t sit back and claim ignorance because someone else didn’t provide you with the information you’re too lazy to learn about yourself.
and Dan, i’ve been around enough to know the deluded insecurities of white boys when i hear them. For all the guys saying “you don’t know what race i am!” – well, you wimps proved me right but not stating what race you are. you’re white. we can all tell. keep up the prejudice. it only makes you look like dinosaurs.
http://youtu.be/r2YniMB51Rw
Interesting
@Mike: The research on social attitude affecting attraction stretches back over 60 years. The evidence is conclusive at this point. Brown v. Board of Education was, in part, decided on the doll test that show that black children preferred white dolls because they believed that the white dolls were more attractive and appealing. Moreover, recent research showed that Whites are more likely to prefer dating Whites than other groups are to prefer their own group. This is all social conditioning. Why? Because if the issue were attraction to one’s own group, you would not expect to see the results I am discussing. You wouldn’t expect more Whites to be attracted to more Whites than Blacks being attracted to Blacks, or Asians to Asian, or Latinos to Latinos. That kind of result only occurs because of social condition that says White is preferred regardless one’s own race. That’s what people mean here by the racist element of it. That the preference has repeatedly been shown to come from not just some personal internal dynamic, but societal ones. Indeed, as I have repeatedly said to you and others- you can not explain the social segregation that White gays engage in on average just by claiming its sexual attraction that’s the issue. I have attempted to join social groups for hobbies and been rebuffed for racial reasons although the group was not formed for those reasons. Nor does it explain the other racial assumptions that if you scratch below the surfaces that often comes up. For example, trying write the way the White ad writer thinks Black or Latino or Asian people sound.
Maressa
Hey guys!
Grindr throws some unbelievable parties! Check out this video of awesome new artist Meital Dohan and her new single, “Yummy Boyz.”
http://youtu.be/I6DuHCD_P6E
riot
I would like to birth ‘interesting’s’ children. Seriously.
Me
the only men i’ve ever come accross that do not think this is racist are white men. honestly, gay culture has managed to turn me into pretty committed disliker (if not flat out hater) of white men–i have no common cause and do not belong to a common community as white gay men–this has been a painfully learned lesson, but i’m glad i learned it in my twenties and not later. to repeatedly see yourself dismissed because of your ethnic origins takes a serious toll on a person’s psyche. i think gay culture is trapped some time in the 1950’s on the subject of race.
You are a racist
For those of you that have turned this issue into a joke…you probably aren’t from Asian. The irresponsible and racist comments that an editor of a respectable(questionable) magazine has made need to be addressed or it will only continue.
Take a few minutes and look up racism on Wikipidea or Merriam because we are talking about an entire RACE of people when you say Asian. For those of you that don’t know what RACE is I suggest some remedial elementary school classes. A twink is not a race of people its a poorly chosen name for younger adult males but it goes across the RACIAL spectrum. That goes the same for all the other malignant and viral words that are out there to label people. Thought that severely distorted backwater hole-in-the-wall mentality died two generations ago.
For those of you that up to this point never looked up the word here is Wiki defintion:
Racism is the belief that inherent different traits in human racial groups justify discrimination. In the modern English language, the term “racism” is used predominantly as a pejorative epithet. It is applied especially to the practice or advocacy of racial discrimination of a pernicious nature (i.e. which harms particular groups of people), and which is often justified by recourse to racial stereotyping or pseudo-science.
Racism is popularly associated with various activities that are illegal or commonly considered harmful, such as extremism, hatred, xenophobia, (malignant or forced) exploitation, separatism, racial supremacy, mass murder (for the purpose of genocide), genocide denial, vigilantism (hate crimes, terrorism), etc.
“Racism” and “racial discrimination” are often used to describe discrimination on an ethnic or cultural basis, independent of their somatic (i.e. “racial”) differences. According to the United Nations conventions, there is no distinction between the term racial discrimination and ethnicity discrimination[citation needed].
Now if that doesn’t make this guy a racist then I don’t know what does. I know its a its just a social website, all the more reason to be socially responsible…grow up!
gay
everyone here should read Tim Wise’s WHITE LIKE ME.
I'm sure it feels worse for me than most.
I’m a black, gay American. Living every day life in my (racist and homophobic) country and interacting with (nakedly racist) gay men has given me PTSD. It has honestly reached the point that interacting with gay white men, going to dating sites, etc. are kind of re-traumatizing experiences. I still do these things, but honestly it’s getting harder and harder to do them. And my life is getting smaller and smaller.
Stop Racism and Homophobia on Grindr
@Ian: I think this is where you are wrong, and just because you preface a statement with “I’ve studied sociology and more” doesn’t mean you aren’t getting it wrong!
Fact is, people are not equated sexual preference with racism at all. The point is not that people should have sex with Asians otherwise they are racist. They are not. The point is that to use the language of exclusion (illogically too, since there is less than 20% of profiles identyfying as Asian on Grindr in Australia and US) is causing people depression and anxiety and making them feel unattractive in their own country!
This language is unnecessarily, and in many cases when you drill down to what is motivating the language, you actually do discover racism and homophobia thinly disguised as “preference”.
No one has to have sex with anyone they don’t want to, but PLEASE start using inclusive, accepting language and stop making people feel like crap. There is simply no need to write NO ASIANS on you’re profile – all you have to do is say THANKS BUT NO THANKS to any profile you do not wish to speak to. It’s so simple, yet seems for some unknown reason so hard to get this through people’s heads, because their ego’s are bruised at being called out for language and behaviour which, for a minority, is simply unacceptable in 2012.
Aaron
Gregory- Read what you just said. “I have not nor will ever find any black or asian even remotely sexually attractive”. How can you say that? Why do you say that? The answer is not “Because I just don’t”. I’m almost certain you have some feeling that leads to deem these races unattractive. Why do you feel this way? What causes it? There is a vast variety of physical characteristic of blacks and asian and you’ve discounted all of them just on bases of race. That to seems racist to me. If you have racist views, by all means have them. I just don’t understand the constant justification of racism in the gay community. Just own up to it.
@gregory:
garl
I’m glad i’m not on grindr, if i was i’ll just hate all people no matter what race.
GregG
I am a bisexual, white male. I have not read all the comments towards the article, so I guess I am not here to respond to anyone other than state my beliefs.
I became interested in the sexual racism matter lately since the internet world opened up to me, and in my opinion, what is supposed to bring congregation (the internet) is actually causing more segregation. Since you’re now “shopping” for human relations, mostly in online dating websites.
Human behavior is mostly conditioned to environmental influences. It is not in our conscious level. It’s in our subconscious, our DNA. It’s hundreds and hundreds of years oh human existence right there on the genetic level.
So, in my mind when someone states certain sexual preferences towards race, it is most certainly, because that person has racist traits on them. Attraction is triggered by a number of chemical reactions in our bod. However what triggers those reactions in the first place.
Racism has a very negative meaning nowadays, but it’s hard to find a person who hasn’t got racist traits, i’d say it’s even impossible. It’s not up to us to decide, it’s the way our society raises us, it’s the influence from the media, from our parents, from our community. And any race can be racist.
In my opinion, when you state sexual preferences towards races, it’s like stating that members of a certain race do not deserve to have any sort of sexual interaction with you. In my opinion, when someone does that, they are lessening an specific human being, just because of their race. And for me, that is racism.
Saying it’s just a sexual preference, it’s just a way for yourself to justify your racism, without being labeled as a bad person.
When someone justifies it using the argument, “and what if a guy likes guys and not girls?”, well, anyone who has posted here, knows that you are born that way. You can’t change that. It is not an influence of the environment, since our environment mostly tells us that homosexuality is wrong. So being a homosexual is more like a sexual statement and not preference.
Sexual preference to me, is whether you like to rim, to fuck or get fucked and etc. A race preference would classify as racism, because you are excluding ALL members of an entire race, without even knowing all of them, so since you don’t really know them, you are lessening them as human beings (sexually speaking) because of their race. And that’s racism, you’re bringing on to yourself a superiority, that only exists in your mind.
Which leads us to prejudice. And prejudice is even worse, because it allows you to exclude
a human being from you sexual life, for various reasons (whether they are muscled or thin, or effeminate or “str8 acting”, etc)
So “racial sexual preference” to me, is portrayed as a way of justifying your racism, when it’s actually a consequence of it.
To me, the majority of the human beings, do not like getting out of their comfort zones. So it’s hard for them to question their own self. but that’s another topic matter, What i wanna say is that when you classify your inability to feel attraction to members of a certain race as “sexual preference”, it is just a way to make you feel better about yourself. You are running away from all the shit our society has been imposing on us for thousands of years.
The best quality of a human being, in my opinion, is the capacity for adaption. this a matter we can change if we want to. all you have to do is be aware of the fact that it is inside of you. Get out of your comfort zone and be more opened. Allow things to enchant you. Because, believe me, if you do that, maybe your acceptance in society will drop a littel(unfortunately), but you will be a lot happier. And more free too.
Oh, ok.
It’s good to know some morons are so obsessed with white skin that they think there are no attractive black, Asian, Hispanic, or Native American people. More for the intelligent people with fully functioning eyeballs.
The idea that only white people are attractive falls back to racism no matter how you word it. It is racist, it’s bigotry, and it’s rather disgusting. But at the end of the day if you’re racist like that then the person is much better off without you anyway. So feel free to keep listing it. Automatic Idiot Detector — Activated.
anon. #3105
Here’s the problem with your analogy of women and race, Daniel: you’re ultimately saying that preference for men of certain facial characteristics cannot change. Point of inquiry: are some humans, whites and asians alike, not attracted to asians? Surely then, natural selective “preferences” would have caused the American/Western-born asians to have died out a long time ago? (Then again, I guess if you’ve been limited in your own exposure to asians, I guess such a perception to this last statement, or a similiar one, would seem rather fitting to you)
You see where I’m going with this?
Exposure to different female faces by the sexual brain cannot alter natural neurological preference levels for females. Exposure to new facial physical and audio(?) characteristics of a race (perhaps in combination with “learned” facts of that specific sub-group) CAN alter such preference levels for the different races.
The driven home question, now, is, had you been exposed to enough (sexy) asians to learn them as sexual beings for reproduction like you have likely done for whites, would you be posting this article in the first place?
paul
I discriminate directly in my profile saying I would only go out with UNIVERSITY students or graduates which happens to exclude most of the blacks and latinos in my city. I really do care more about education, but sexually im just not attracted to blacks or latinos. I’m mostly attracted to white, asian, indian, and middle eastern men.
im also going to point out that there were very few black or latinos on grindr when it was iPhone only.
paul
Im also kind of afraid to date a black guy even if i was attracted to him just because the rate of HIV in my city among gay blacks is so much higher than for gay whites. do they not fucking use condoms? i want no part of that!
Sam
@gregory: Yeah that would be an effective filter for your profile, but it doesn’t make you come off that sensitive or… nice. Just don’t reply to people you aren’t attracted to, or politely tell them you aren’t interested. You don’t have to mention race or any specific reason, just say no thanks. Besides, if you write “no this, no that, etc,” people will read that as “I’m an insensitive jerk,” and a lot of people will simply skip over you because of it. You could miss out on somebody great for no good reason. Think about it.
JOHN SWAN
@Shannon1981: I don’t like to engage sexually with blacks or asians because I have never seen a black or asian that I’ve ever though was hot. My perspective is that they are not my type. So, when I say NO ASIAN and NO BLACKS, I mean->don’t wast my time with a million messages that, even if one of those messages from those races are appealing, I would rather not have to go through all those other freaking meaasges to see that ONE message because IT IS NOT WORTH MY TIME. FUCK… NO ASIANS and NO BLACKS. Thank you.
George
Everyone has a right to a preference. You have a preference not to date outside your race. I have a preference to call such people racists. So I will respect your preference if you respect mine!
Garfield
I’m Latino/Mexican and maybe because I appear more
European that I haven’t had much racism thrown at me….especially on grindr. Sure I have heard some gay people of all colors make incredibly racist remarks but it just
sucks to be them because they have self esteem issues. The bottom line is that you can’t make people be attracted to you and just move on.
nothing
not all asian guys are into white guys anymore. because they wrote on their profile that says, “no asians”, “please no asians” or, “please be white, black or latin ONLY”.
hissing
@ Garfield. HA!…LIARS!!!!!!
LATINO/MEXICAN ARE CONSIDERATION “BULLYING” PEOPLE.
ITS THE LATINO/MEXICAN WITH SELF-ESTEEM ISSUES BY THE WAY!
Court
I have a question for those that are just speaking from their “sexual preferences” when they say No Blacks or No Asians or No Latinos or No Whites — what does turn you on sexually? Is is strictly the skin color? How can one say that a particular race of people has never turned them on? If you were blind, wouldn’t you have to prefer sexually based on what you hear? What you smell? What you feel when that person is around?
For me, I don’t believe that skin color can determine what I’m attracted to physically or sexually, so to discount an entire race of people is kinda ridiculous. People are people!!! What isn’t sexually attractive is a closed mind, and if this is strictly about sex and not forcing one to have sex with those he doesn’t want to have sex with, I ask again, what turns you on? Is it purely based on what you can see? If so, revert to the questions above about being blind.
flashback
I learned that his profile is FAKE on adam4adam. He seems like a liar person and probably dangerous person.
his screen name: LATINOTOPVN.
Blake
The amount of idiocy is astounding here. To be technical not preferring a race is racist, so what? It isn’t harmful or anything. Being gay is also sexist by definition. Yes all woman have vaginas, but not all woman(vaginas) are the same. As this one person told me(i’m gay) all these people in the world and not one woman you like? And also people of the same race do typically look the same in a general sense.
IF someone doesn’t like me for my race i just consider that something else that anyone wouldn’t like me for.
@anon. #3105:
How is it that exposure to different looking women won’t change your preference yet exposure to different looking people of a certain race does?
selective proof much?
selective proof much?elective proof much?
@Little Kiwi: “when one says “i’m not into blacks” what they’re saying is “i can’t see the individual, i can only see The Blackness””
Well,because there black. When you make a first impression that is sexually based all you see is what you like or don’t like about them. Individuality is irrelevant at that point.
Overall, if someone doesn’t want to fuck you they just don’t, just like how many other people discriminate for a variety of reasons. Only difference is there is no name(as far as i know)for people who date based on hair color.Coming from a black gay guy who prefers white men, but won’t exclude a race.
@fairly_short: They are black maybe?
While not all black people look the same, i would think it is general enough to exclude it as such. Not all woman look the same. And why would you exclude someone just because of a body part they have?
Also to the idiots saying you are basically born gay so it’s ok stop it. The whole born gay thing is a moot and irrelevant, would you all suddenly be ok if there was proof that racial preferences is genetic?
Wtf1979
Okay, first off, I think people should have preferences, but some people take it too far. Me myself, I’m mixed race (half black/half white) and I’ve noticed on lots of gay sites, such as BBRT for example, there’s some profiles that say, “sorry, not into blacks, asians, ect.” or “white and latino only”. Now to these idiots who put this in their profiles, for starters, Latinos can be BLACK or WHITE and they’re not being specific about it when they put it in their profiles. Yes people, that is indeed racism, and it’s a shame some people hide it as a “preference” when it comes to the race of a person. It’s bad enough that us in the LGBT community is already at the bottom of society’s barrel, but for us to be this stupid towards each other is just too much. Like some people had previously said, if you’re not into certain ethnic groups, then just don’t respond to them if they contact you. Personally, if it were me and I owned the website, anyone who outright calls out a certain ethnic group like that would be banned immediately and will be labeled as a “faux pas gay” since those haters really don’t deserve to fly the rainbow flag at all. I’m thankful that I’m not such a bigot like some of those people who put that in their profiles, or else, I’d just rather put myself out of my misery.
Charles
@Little Kiwi: The thing is, does it really matter if they are socially or biologically based? and Isn’t oreitnation a concept of attraction? Why is something more or less wrong just because it is social?
I’d like to think that people with racial preferences can’t help what they are attracted to, unless you want them to forcibly change that?
Charles
@fairly_short:
Saying you’re gay = NO GIRLS… so yeah I don’t see what the issue is.
And it isn’t a red herring, it is a demand for consistency in logic. What you’re doing is special pleading, saying that one attraction can’t be argued against because it’s different from another.
Charles
@john: Well you’re just all types of ignorant. Then according to that logic no one should have a preference at all because you never know?
Saying you aren’t attracted to someone is purely physically based. You don’t need
Charles
@americanfitch66:
Really? And you don’t think being un attracted to women does the same thing?
You all are delusional. People of the same race tend to look similar(ignoring the over broad 3 race category). You aren’t going to confuse Mel Gibson for a Black guy. You can tell he’s white without anyone having to ever tell you.
Not dating a person for something physical they have isn’t new or uncommon, just that when it comes to race, it’s a little more general.
There is nothing wrong with dis attraction to a particular group, we don’t know all of them but we don’t have to be to have a practically general idea of what we like. If we can’t do that than gays shouldn’t identify as such, because they don’t know every women in the world.
@ Little Kiwi, Your logic is terrible. So when you are attracted to someone for certain traits is one still only seeing them for that trait? To take note of a certain feature isn’t a rejection of their individuality. It’s making a realistic observation.
Charles
I want to refer to the apparent distinguish between being gay and (for the sake of convenience) Anglo-sexual.
For the sake of argument I’m going to say that sexual orientation is indisputably innate, by definition it’s still sexist, just innate sexism. I mean even though all women have vaginas that’s half the planet buddy, are you really not attracted to half the planet despite all the varieties(facial structure,hair, color, cup size, figure, personality) of women(and with the apparent diversity between races their diversity their diversity is tripled if not more)
But I ask, why does being innate make something more or less immoral? Take the instance of pedophilia. I’m sure they don’t choose to be so. You all might think it’s a crazy comparison because pedos rapes kids. Good for you, you’ve managed to take things on it’s actual merit and not it’s social/natural source.
So my point is if something is wrong it is wrong regardless of if it is social or natural, if someone’s sexual orientation is social there is nothing wrong with that(humans are social creatures so why are we hating on it when it comes to racial preferences?.
The racism isn’t any less genuine weather or not it is social or not, so the fact that it is scoial doesn’t make it wrong.
What about the number of things people have an affinity for because of society? Why do we not condemn women who like pink? or guys who like big boobs? or people who like mainstream music?
Overall my point being no matter that cause, unless someone’s preference
Charles
@GregG:
Your argument is completely illogical. When you aren’t attracted to someone it is just that. You aren’t attracted to them. You are overgeneralizing and over reading into it by assuming that people by simply having a disinclination to certain things sexually demeans the object of un attraction.
You’re putting words in people’s mouths. Are you demeaning someone when you just don’t find them attractive for whatever reason? It isn’t saying “You don’t deserve to have sex with me” that would just be arrogant, it’s just that one isn’t interested. You’re creating a false pedestal to falsely put people on and accuse them of something they probably aren’t doing.
And to your point of being born gay, that is still largely a moot. But even so why do you not persecute people who like to rim?
While people with racial preferences haven’t met all of one race, gays haven’t met all women. So your point about not meeting all of one race is irrelevant.
It is a product of socialization… so what? That isn’t new. Some people are ass holes about their racial preferences, but many more are simply not interested.
@George, not really, You just need to get over youreslf
An0n
If you’re only attracted to your own race, fine. Simply say that then. But to specifically say “NO ASIANS” sounds rude at best. I mean, it implies that you’re attracted to whites, blacks, Latinos, Native Americans, Indians, Middle Easterners and any other ethnicity on Earth, but you find only Asians exceptionally unattractive for some reason. That’s not a preference; it’s a prejudice.
An0n
Instead of listing what you DON’T want, why not list specifically what you DO want? “I’m looking for a fit, masc white guy in his 20s” sounds much more inviting than “NO FATTIES, NO FEMMES, NO ASIANS, NO OLDIES.” The latter just makes you sound like an asshole whom no one wants to meet.