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Don’t Ask: Florida Student Kicked Out Of Navy ROTC For Doing Gay Porn

patrick hunter


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By:           Dan Avery
On:           Sep 12, 2012
Tagged: , , , , , ,
  • 33 Comments
    • Cam
      Cam

      If what his lawyer says ”
      the contract Koch signed with the corps was a civil contract with “specific terms and conditions that have not been breached.” IS true, then I will be interested in seeing the outcome.

      The problem for the military is that porn is legal, but seen as morally questionable and that is a hard case to make if it isn’t specified. If it isn’t specified, then that could be because specifically singling out Porn could get the whole contract tossed out by a court.

      AGain, I’m curious to see where this case goes.

      Sep 12, 2012 at 3:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Chris
      Chris

      So, on one hand: More hot gay military sex, please!

      On the other hand: the military (even ROTC and to some degree JROTC) is pretty clear that they expect you to be an “upstanding citizen” – they don’t want ANY bad press and want people to think you’re GI Joe – the all American hero who does no wrong. Did he break any laws? No. Did he make the Navy look bad? Maybe – depends on your point of view.

      Sep 12, 2012 at 4:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MarionPaige
      MarionPaige

      Not all porn is hardly Legal, as commenter #1 says. And, appearing in a pornographic vide essentially makes you a prostitute.

      While the sale and distribution of “some” adult content is lawful in most states, THE PRODUCTION OF PORN has only been formally decriminalized in California – which is why California is the epicenter for the Adult Industry in North America. Since prostitution is legal in some counties in Nevada, a number of adult producers are also based in Las Vegas.

      The bottom line is that, everywhere in the US, performing in porn amounts to “having sex for money”. Having sex for money is called PROSTITUTION. Prostitution is illegal everywhere in the US except in a couple of counties in Nevada. However,

      There is the case of performer MATT WOODS (who was based in Florida) doing porn WHILE ELISTED IN THE NAVY and Matt Woods (his professional name) got an honorable discharge. So, citing the Matt Woods Case may help, see http://www.bitchless.net/index.php?showtopic=1432 .

      Sep 12, 2012 at 5:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • mlbumiller
      mlbumiller

      Navy Reg require that non commission presonnel recieved approval for “moonlighting”. I am sure he did not get that approval.

      Also, member Chris is correct, being featured in pronographic material could be deemed conduct unbecoming. Also, a lot depends on what year of training MedShipmen is in or is the they are in Active Duty Training according to the NROTC Inst 1533.2A. When a senior or on active duty, they are subject to the UCMJ. NROTC students are expected to conduct themselves per the standards of socially acceptable behavior and display military officer bearing and demeanor at all times. These standards, when evaluated together, provide a measure of aptitude for commissioned.

      They also sign an oath form NSTC 1533/121 that includes this statement:
      Honor:”Iwillbeartruefaithandallegiance…“I will conduct myself in the highest ethical manner in all that I do. I will abide by an uncompromising code of integrity,taking full responsibility for my actions and my word.I am accountable for my behavior,both professional and personal…”

      Sep 12, 2012 at 5:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • balehead
      balehead

      Well we should pay them more to defends our freedoms….maybe this won’t happen as much…plus porn isn’t that bad..it just means your hawt enough to do it!!

      Sep 12, 2012 at 6:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • daybreaker
      daybreaker

      The question should not just be whether he engaged in “conduct unbecoming.”

      If he is not in the military yet, and signed the standard four year scholarship contract cadets are given, hey, his lawyer could be right, that the service is bound by the terms and conditions of that civil agreement, not some amorphous and undefined Navy standards.

      I would not bet against Pat, or this lawyer. He is the same guy that represented Dan Choi and people who smoke marijuana legally because of medical necessity. He wins lots of cases. Google him and you will see what i mean.

      What I think we have to argue as gay men or even straight men is that there is nothing unbecoming about consensual adult pornography. 100 million consumers can’t be wrong.

      Sep 12, 2012 at 7:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • PTBoat
      PTBoat

      He’s not an officer yet, but it’s pretty unbecoming conduct. Gay or straight, a service person has no business in that business.

      Sep 12, 2012 at 7:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MMDD
      MMDD

      Since the vast majority of gay porn performers are straight, I would love to start a brand of porn that actually employs and celebrates gay men and gay male sexuality…but sadly, I wouldn’t know what to call it.

      Sep 12, 2012 at 9:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Chris
      Chris

      @MMDD: The Real Househusbands of Palm Springs?

      Sep 12, 2012 at 9:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dakotahgeo
      Dakotahgeo

      Sadly, our military brass in charge of these decisions are in violation of most sexual laws the way it is. The kettles calling the pots black… as usual.

      Sep 12, 2012 at 9:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MMDD
      MMDD

      @Chris: LOL!

      Sep 12, 2012 at 10:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • daybreaker
      daybreaker

      But PT Boat guy, why is that business unbecoming?
      Why do we demean it and disgrace it and make it so nasty?
      It’s just sex, for christ’s sake, it is the freaking most universal thing in the world which appeals to everyone everywhere and we say because some kid does it to pay his tuition it is unbecoming?
      Why man why?????

      Sep 13, 2012 at 12:37 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Eric Auerbach
      Eric Auerbach

      Some dude got fired from his job for doing porn. Don’t even try to spin this into a gay rights issue.

      Sep 13, 2012 at 12:53 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • GeriHew
      GeriHew

      @MarionPaige: RE: ” And, appearing in a pornographic vide essentially makes you a prostitute.”

      You are wrong.

      It has been established in the US courts that porn actors and actresses are not prostitutes. Prostitution is when one person pays another person to have sex with him or her. Porn performers don’t (as a general rule) pay each other for sex. They are both paid by a third party(which in the USA has to be a registered company which has to by law meet a number of legally specified standards and requirements) to have sex with each other while being filmed. For this reason porn can be legally produced in places where prostitution is illegal.

      I am not splitting hairs. Porn performer and escort are both types of sex work but they are two entirely different occupations. The fact that some people do both types of sex work just means some sex workers have more than one job.

      Sep 13, 2012 at 3:28 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • GeriHew
      GeriHew

      @MMDD: There are plenty of gay porn sites and video producers who only feature gay and bisexual identified men.

      The “gay for pay” str8 dude in gay porn thing gets way to much attention because it’s so controversial.

      Sep 13, 2012 at 3:34 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • gaym50ish
      gaym50ish

      An ROTC student is a civilian — not subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice or military regulations. If the policy of the ROTC program at his school wasn’t spelled out pretty specifically, he probably has a pretty good case for getting reinstated.

      If the guy is straight he was probably doing “solo” porn (that’s what it looks like in the photo above), which would not in any way resemble prostitution, even if that question had not already been settled.

      Sep 13, 2012 at 4:59 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ruhlmann
      Ruhlmann

      @daybreaker: Standards? Guys in the military doing porn? This would be way up there with all the shit the military brass said would happen when you let gays in. Straight or gay this is a bad idea and I think he should man up and leave.

      Sep 13, 2012 at 5:03 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • GeriHew
      GeriHew

      @gaym50ish: He has done solo and one-on-one gay sex scenes. He doesn’t appear to have done any boy-girl or bisexual work – not as “Patrick Hunter” anyway. He might have done some straight porn using a different stage name and persona. That actually goes on quite a lot, which is a cause for concern within the Adult Entertainment industry.

      Anyone who is not convinced that porn performing is not the same thing as prostitution should consider this:
      http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/110/2257

      The US Government has in fact been heavily regulating pornography for a number of years. And it receives millions of dollars a year in tax revenues from the the Industry.

      Sep 13, 2012 at 7:13 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The Real Mike in Asheville
      The Real Mike in Asheville

      @MMDD: Men who have sex with men ARE NOT straight; at least while engaging in homosexual sex, they are homosexual. Per the picture, this Midshipman is very attractive and has a great youthful body. He could have decided to perform in straight porn, yet chose to perform in gay porn. Maybe not gay through=and-through; certainly not straight through-and-through.

      Sep 13, 2012 at 7:54 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MMDD
      MMDD

      @GeriHew: “Plenty,” eh? Care to name a few of these numerous sites that feature real gay men (and I mean GAY, not bisexual)? Controversies aside, surely you know that gay-for-pay is the industry standard and has been for a very long time.

      @The Real Mike in Asheville: A prostitute does not have to be sexually attracted to the person he or she is having sex with. Performing a sex act with a person because you’re getting paid for it does not equate with a person’s sexual orientation. Attraction isn’t the main factor; it’s just doing a job for a paycheck.

      Sep 13, 2012 at 8:13 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • GeriHew
      GeriHew

      @MMDD: RE: ““Plenty,” eh? Care to name a few of these numerous sites that feature real gay men (and I mean GAY, not bisexual)? Controversies aside, surely you know that gay-for-pay is the industry standard and has been for a very long time.”

      Sure. Men At Play, Lavender Lounge, Alphamales – the vast majority of the models on those sites are gay identified men. They do have a few bisexual guys & Men At Play has some straight guys too – but they mostly only do solo masturbation scenes. The point is those sites are not chasing the str8 trade niche.

      And what precisely would be the point of excluding bisexual men from gay porn? Bisexual men, both in gay and straight porn, are often the best performers. Bisexual women are often the best porn performers as well. Porn producers need performers who can deliver. Most men, be they gay, straight, whatever, really haven’t got what it takes to do porn professionally.

      As for gay-for-pay being the industry standard – as I say it gets a lot of attention because it’s so controversial. And a lot of the time it’s totally exaggerated. Men who quite definitely ID as bisexual often get mislabeled as “gay-for-pay” just because they do scenes with women as well as men, or it’s known that they’re married to a woman &/or they’ve done some trade type scenes. And trade type scenes are often done with straight acting gay men as well as bisexual guys and men who say they’re just gay-for-pay.

      Sep 13, 2012 at 9:51 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tidalpool
      tidalpool

      As a former military member, and having a partner who is also prior military, the UCMJ is more then specific with its morals clause. If this man fell under this phase of his training, he can look forward to a discharge.
      Prior to the UCMJ taking effect, members of ROTC sign a contract abjuring any acts of ‘moral turpitude’ which just means anything found not to meet community standards of behavior. I suspect this charge as they are looking for their money back. The loaning of college funds is entirely dependant upon the ROTC member fulfilling their military committment. This guy chose to make decsions that reflected badly on himself, his ROTC membership and the military, his choice, his consequences.

      Sep 13, 2012 at 1:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • alterego1980
      alterego1980

      I wonder who found him and turned him in? Or maybe he has a big mouth and was talking about it with “friends” (sorry if this is addressed above, I didn’t read all the other comments)

      Sep 13, 2012 at 1:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Niall
      Niall

      @Chris: Haha, makes me wish for a ‘like’ feature

      Sep 13, 2012 at 2:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • FairyQing
      FairyQing

      bottoming to men is not immoral
      bottoming to government is
      toping men is not immoral
      torturing men is
      fucking men is not immoral
      killing men is
      blowing men is not immoral
      blowing bombs is

      STOP FOLLOWING THEIR MORAL! BE PROUD & FUCK ENEMIES TO QUEERGASM!

      Sep 13, 2012 at 2:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MMDD
      MMDD

      @GeriHew: I’m not in any way talking about excluding bisexual men from gay porn, or even straight men for that matter. My point is that a very small number of men in the business are actually gay. As for those sites you mention, they may have guys who identify as gay as part of their image, but it’s pretty unlikely they are actually gay in their personal lives. Just to be blunt, I’ve never known of a performer in the business who didn’t like p*ssy…and I’ve been following gay porn for over 20 years. Not trying to be argumentative here, just making an observation. The business has never been “gay” focused in the first place, and in the eyes of most viewers and most companies, gay men simply aren’t as appealing as non-gay (i.e., straight and bisexual) men.

      Also, it should be mentioned that because of the backlash the gay-for-pay issue causes, more and more of these guys are identifying as “bisexual” just to avoid the controversy that goes with admitting they are gay-for-pay. It’s also not uncommon for performers who initially identified as gay to “switch sides” and start dating women.

      The whole purpose of gay porn in the first place is to present the FANTASY of two guys enjoying sex with each other, not the REALITY of guys who actually enjoy it. That’s why they call it a “performance.” If I’m going to watch two guys have sex with each other and expect to see any kind of genuine passion, I will avoid gay porn at all costs.

      Anyway, that’s just my two cents.

      Sep 13, 2012 at 10:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Burlington
      Burlington

      Don’t fool yourself and don’t try to make things different that they are. Porn isn’t in any way the best example of sexual behavior. No one videoed in a porn set was there to do the dishes or clean the carpet. Porn performers are prostitutes because, like prostitutes they are hired to make sex with people that they hardly know and get payed for it. Receiving money for something supposed to be given for free isn’t the best moral standard to be followed. All gay man needs to start to see porn as porn is : A debased form to present sex. Gays, as a minority will never be accepted if we try to shove this lack of morals presented in porn as something good for us and for the whole society. No one will get respect and consideration defending an attitude like this: Yes, it’s filth,vile and depraved but if you pay me I’ll do… It’s unconsivable a human relationship based in this terms. Our society rejects porn and prostitution and those who are involved in it are seeing as people who are in the edge, in the lower limit of the society: marginals.

      Sep 14, 2012 at 2:05 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • GeriHew
      GeriHew

      @MMDD: So you’ve: “been following gay porn for over 20 years” but If you’re “going to watch two guys have sex with each other and expect to see any kind of genuine passion,” you will avoid gay porn at all costs?

      So, do you actually watch porn or not?

      I’ve worked in the porn business for nearly 10 years and I have observed that many of its harshest critics hardly ever actually watch the stuff. More often than not it seems they looked at a few scenes which confirmed their pre-concieved prejudices and then they spend years making sweeping statements and generalizations about porn and stereotyping porn performers and what “porn is” – when there’s actually all sorts of porn out there. I’m not saying you’re one of those people, but what you wrote makes me wonder.

      For Valentine’s Day this year Queerty ran an item on real couples in gay porn
      http://www.queerty.com/eight-gay-porn-couples-who-found-true-love-off-screen-and-a-few-who-didnt-20120213/

      It’s hardly an “in-depth” study – what article on Queerty ever is? – but you might want to take a look anyway.

      I much prefer sex positive porn myself. I like to see some real sexual chemistry going on. I don’t actually care if it’s 2 guys, 2 girls, a guy & a girl or they’re transgender whatever. Seeing the people enjoying the sex with each other is important to me. And I believe I have a pretty good sense of what’s fake and what’s real in that sense.

      You say your: “point is that a very small number of men in the business are actually gay.” I know other people who think, and have heard others say that most of the men in straight porn are gay. And if you question that with obvious they’ll say something like: “OK not actually gay, but bisexual anyway.”

      So yes, a lot of the performers in porn, both male & female, are bisexual to at least some degree. But does that make them “fake”?

      Some people might think the opposite. That their sexuality is actually more open, realistic and honest than that of the majority of people in our society.

      Have you seen “Damon and Hunter: Doing It Together” Comstock Films?

      Tony Comstock and his wife Peggy only make real-life couple type porn. To date Damon and Hunter is their only same-sex male couple film. Most of the couples in their movies aren’t porn performers and have never been filmed having sex before. Damon and Hunter on the other hand are actually both, or at least were, gay pornstars.

      There’s definitely a market for real-life couples only porn. There are whole websites dedicated to it for straight and lesbian couples. Maybe you should try considering making real-life couple gay porn yourself.

      Some of the most successful adult content producers started out looking for a kind of porn that they wanted to watch, couldn’t find it, or much of it, and so they just started making it themselves.

      Sep 14, 2012 at 6:36 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ridpathos
      Ridpathos

      “Should member of the Armed Forces—even ROTC—have the same freedoms in their personal life as civilians?”

      Uh. Very few civilians have the freedom to do porn and not get fired. I know I would be fired from my job immediately if I were caught doing porn. It’s a matter of professionalism, and this is not professional. (in the sense of… you know what I mean. D:< )

      Sep 15, 2012 at 12:35 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • D9W
      D9W

      Our Boys would not be doing this if they were paid right for protecting our freedoms.

      Instead we have a bunch of cowards in the house of Congress who can’t get off their buts and do their jobs.

      I am not worried about some ROTC kid showing his junk, what I am worried about is a house leader and a momon presidential candidate who are willing to throw the GLBTQ community and our nation under the bus for their political gain.

      What get’s me even more sick is the Uncle Toms in the Gay community who are willing to Vote for the House Majority leader and the Senate Minority leadership and their ilk. These Uncle Toms will be the judas cows that will send our right back to the 50’s. So Stop picking on thise kids, and Stop Voting for people who would have no problems seeing you dead for their poitical gain.

      Sep 15, 2012 at 2:58 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • mlbumiller
      mlbumiller

      @Ridpathos:
      Military personnel fall under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Participating in pronography is a violation of several articles of the UCMJ. When you enlist, you do not give up your personal freedoms, but some of those freedoms are frought with serious consiquences.

      Sep 24, 2012 at 2:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • mlbumiller
      mlbumiller

      @gaym50ish:

      Navy Reg require that non commission presonnel recieved approval for “moonlighting”. I am sure he did not get that approval.

      Also, member Chris is correct, being featured in pronographic material could be deemed conduct unbecoming. Also, a lot depends on what year of training MedShipmen is in or is the they are in Active Duty Training according to the NROTC Inst 1533.2A. When a senior or on active duty, they are subject to the UCMJ. NROTC students are expected to conduct themselves per the standards of socially acceptable behavior and display military officer bearing and demeanor at all times. These standards, when evaluated together, provide a measure of aptitude for commissioned.

      They also sign an oath form NSTC 1533/121 that includes this statement:
      Honor:”Iwillbeartruefaithandallegiance…“I will conduct myself in the highest ethical manner in all that I do. I will abide by an uncompromising code of integrity,taking full responsibility for my actions and my word.I am accountable for my behavior,both professional and personal…”

      Sep 24, 2012 at 2:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • mlbumiller
      mlbumiller

      @PTBoat:

      “officer” can be defined as both commissioned officer and non-comissioned officer (i.e. petty officer).

      Sep 24, 2012 at 2:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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