Dr. Zucker resides in Canada. Therefore the case would be in Canadian jurisdiction. That’s what the Canadian case law bit is about, since he’s the one filing the lawsuit.

On a side note (my personal feelings of the matter), Dr. Zucker needs to be stripped of the title of “Doctor” and tossed in jail for all the children he’s damaged the minds of over the years. What he’s done is no different from any other child abuser out there.

I am not trolling and i consider this subject more important than you can imagine.

You pull the APA card out and are trying to compare it to his treatment but the fact is we do not know how simular his treatment is and il not accept speculation as proof. And not only that but they only specify homosexuality and it is from 1999.

But in 2007 the same APA chose Zucker to be a member of the American Psychological Association Task Force on Gender Identity, Gender Variance, and Intersex Conditions.

And in 2008 was named chair of the APA workgroup on “Sexual and Gender Identity Disorders” for the 2012 edition of the DSM-5.

So the way i see it is that if his methods were the same or had been causing harm why would he be getting these promotions to the top of the professional hierarcy?.

Reparative therapy is proven destructive. It makes no difference whether the purpose of the therapy is to change gender orientation or to change sexual orientation. The damage is caused by what is inflicted on the victim, not by the cures that the psychologist claims. And it does not matter that the APA did not specifically call out the types reparative therapy (shaming effeminacy etc.) used by Zucker, it condemned all reparative therapy.

Rubbish that quote is in regards to sexual orientation not gender and does not even mention Zucker or his methods.

Here,
http://www.psychiatricnews.org.....erapy.html
…
APA President Rodrigo Muñoz, M.D., “that this position opposing reparative therapy has been adopted on the 25th anniversary of the removal of homosexuality as a mental disorder from the DSM. There is no scientific evidence that reparative or conversion therapy is effective in changing a person’s sexual orientation.” He added that “THERE IS HOWEVER EVIDENCE THAT THIS TYPE OF THERAPY CAN BE DESTRUCTIVE.” …
[emphasis was ADDED]

There you have it, there may or may not be evidence that Zucker’s therapy is beneficial to transkids, but there most certainly is evidence that Zucker’s therapy is harmful to everyone it is inflicted on.

REPARATIVE THERAPY:
STATEMENTS BY PROFESSIONAL ASSOCIATIONS AND THEIR LEADERS: http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_expr.htm

Drop the Barbie:
Ken Zucker’s reparatist treatment of gender-variant children: http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/peopl.....Barbie.htm

Zucker and Bradley believe that reparative treatments (encouraging the child to accept their natal sex and associated gender) can be therapeutic for several reasons. They believe that treatment can reduce social ostracism by helping gender non-conforming children mix more readily with same sex peers and prevent long-term psychopathological development (i.e., it is easier to change a child than a society intolerant of gender diversity). Reparative therapy is believed to reduce the chances of adult GID (i.e., transsexualism) which Zucker and Bradley characterize as undesirable.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Zucker

Dr. Zucker Fights Back, and the APA’s Special Exemption on Reparative Therapy Remains
Q: When is reparative therapy not reparative therapy?
A: When the patients are gender variant children.
http://dentedbluemercedes.word.....y-remains/

You know those reparative therapy “experts” who influenced the homophobic death penalty legislation in Uganda? For sex and gender minorities, that movement is not led by religious zealots, but by a handful of Toronto psychologists like Kenneth Zucker who still get taken seriously in their field.: http://www.boingboing.net/2010.....epice.html

For those who are concerned about the establishment of an adherent to reparative therapy (Dr. Kenneth Zucker) and another seeking to entrench “autogynephilia” (a pathologization of treatment of non- “homosexual transgender” transfolk) in the DSM-V, there have been some new happenings.: http://www.transadvocate.com/u.....he-dsm.htm

Ken Zucker is a psychologist (not a psychiatrist) at the Clarke Institute in Toronto. He promotes his so-called “reparative therapy” which is little more than torture for gender variant(GV) children and trans identified adolescents. It is suggested by research that around 75% of born male bodied children who manifest GV behaviour (sissy boys) do not become trans adults, but it is worth noting that this research has never considered born female bodied GV children (tomboys). Yet he promotes his ‘therapy’ for all GV children and trans identified adolescents.: http://biodiverseresistance.bl.....er-in.html

“At this point, I cannot make any statement about how therapy affects later sexual orientation,” Zucker says, clearly choosing his words carefully. “But certainly many parents bring their children to me because they would prefer that they not grow up to be gay.”…He pauses. “My job is to help them accept their gender. The success of treatment is subjective”: http://www.brainchildmag.com/e.....kinson.htm

The thing to remember about the DSM is that the standards and procedures are virtually nonexistent. Just to provide an example for another area, have a look at the “assessment” for personality disorders (the most severe and stigmatising diagnosis in the DSM, because personality disorders are considered untreatable):

http://www.dsm5.org/ProposedRe.....rmats.aspx

This thing is entirely subjective, and doesn’t reach the intellectual rigour of most Cosmo quizzes, and yet it’s being proposed as a diagnostic assessment for personality disorders. One should not be surprised about anything coming out of the DSM revision process.

The APA also ignored years of their own research to keep homosexuality in the DSM as long as they did, even though the few studies that were used to justify keeping homosexuality as a diagnosis had serious methodological flaws (like comparing a gay patient population to a straight non-patient population to arrive at the conclusion that gays are more prone to mental illness – you’d get an F for that study design in first-year research methods).

http://www.gires.org.uk/Web_Pa.....signed.htm
A discussion of the current findings on the causes of transsexuality by the leading researchers and clinicians in the field, pointing out that the available data support a very different model from the BBL model.

http://www.tsroadmap.com/info/bailey-critique.html
(Open letter of British psychologists condemning Bailey – who regurgitates Blanchard’s views in his book)”).

http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/peopl.....garden.htm
Critique by Dr Joan Roughgarden, noting that:

“Blanchard’s studies suffer a flawed design because he projects onto his subjects his own presumption that cross-gender expression is about sex and only sex. Blanchard is only interested in finding out what turns people on. Blanchard’s research, like Bailey’s and that of the Clarke Institute generally, suffers from failure to disclose the conflict of interest between the Institute’s staff and their clients who depend on them for letters authorizing surgery, and even in some cases for financial support.”

http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/peopl.....Bailey.htm

Can you please post a link where the APA have said Zuckers treatment is ineffective and harmful. As well as one to where Zucker, Blanchard, Bailey, and Lawrence are engaged in academic fraud.

And if it is so why did the APA selection board ignore the petition against him and make him chair in regards to the next DSM regarding GIDIC amoung other related things?.

I do respect the fact that everybody is entitled to a opinion i must say that after reading some of the things this person has been deliberatly and falsely accused of on here just to discredit him (like pedophilia and torturing innocent babies) i think it does no favors to the more rational individuals.

Zucker’s method for treating gender variant children is to use reparative therapy on them, the same type of therapy that the APA has stated is ineffective and harmful. The reason why most of his patients don’t “grow up to be trans” is that most of them aren’t. Many gay, lesbian, bi, queer, and even straight children will display atypical gender behavior at some time during their development. To treat non-trans children with reparitive therapy and then to claim that they have been “cured” of being trans is the same as treating healthy children with chemotherapy and claiming to have cured them of cancer.

Being trans is not a psycholigical condition that can be cured, just as homosexuality isn’t a psychological condition that can be “cured”. Being trans is a medical condition that can be cured, usually with hormones and surgery.

While you obviously have strong opinions on this issue it is far too important to me to take someones word for these claims, perhaps this is the wrong place to ask questions regarding the subject.

To show that Zucker is a fraud, one need go no farther than to point out that he performs so-called “reparative therapy” and receives money for it, even though “reparative therapy” has long been known to be – at best – useless, and at worst a major suicide promoter.

The reports are about him and his methods and results so i cannot find any that do not involve him in some way and i have seen that the other two doctors you mentioned are connected to his work in most cases one way or another.

Are you claiming that Zucker and the other two Doctors you mention are part of fraudulent report on his studies?.

From the times and dates of his reports i would say that the 50 patients in one report would be between 30-40 years old by now but i can find no complaints from these or others that he treated.

This is extremely important to me so if you have any material that proves this man is a fraud.

Would you care to share any of your references?

Every report i have seen on this mans work (from non hate groups who accuse him of falsifying his results…a claim the APA found SO absurd they totally ignored it) shows he cures around 80 to 90% of the children he treats that then go on to lead happy lives, now considering the high suicide rate of transgenders and the suffering they can go through i think this guy is doing a lot of good.

1735: John Peter Zenger
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Peter Zenger (October 26, 1697 – July 28, 1746) was a German-born American printer, publisher, editor and journalist in New York City.

He owned the second newspaper in the city, ‘The New York Weekly Journal’. He printed another man’s document that criticized William Cosby, Governor of New York, who had him arrested on a charge of seditious libel. Zenger claimed in his “apology” for missing an issue, that even though he was in jail without supplies, he could still publish by speaking through a hole in the door with the help of his wife and servants. It is unclear just how seriously Zenger personally took the material published in the Weekly Journal. -snip-

Zenger was most likely a convenient target to use in an attempt to end criticism. His defense attorney, Andrew Hamilton, was from Philadelphia, and won a case most local attorneys were confident would be unwinnable, and over which prior attorneys had been disbarred. His success may have resulted in the addition of the expression “Philadelphia lawyer” to the language

A notable aspect of the case is that Hamilton challenged the legality of the crimes for which his client was being prosecuted. It was one of the first times in American history in which a lawyer challenged the laws rather than the innocence of his clients. The jurors were stunned and didn’t know how to, or even if they were allowed to, address whether the law itself was “legal.” See also Jury nullification.

At the end of the trial on August 5, 1735, the twelve New York jurors returned a verdict of “not guilty” on the charge of publishing “seditious libels,” despite the Governor’s hand-picked judges presiding. Hamilton had successfully argued that Zenger’s articles were not libelous because they were based on fact. Zenger published a verbatim account of the trial as A Brief Narrative of the Case and Trial of John Peter Zenger (1736). “No nation, ancient or modern, ever lost the liberty of speaking freely, writing, or publishing their sentiments, but forthwith lost their liberty in general and became slaves” stated Zenger.

Hamilton had served for free. In gratitude for what he had done, the Common Council of New York City awarded him the freedom of that city, and a group of prominent residents contributed to the production of a 5½-ounce gold box that was presented to him as a lasting mark of their gratitude. On the lid of the box the city’s arms were engraved, encircled with the words “Demersae leges — timefacta libertas — haec tandem emergunt” (extracted from Cicero’s “Quamvis enim sint demersae leges alicuius opibus, quamvis timefacta libertas, emergunt tamen haec aliquando,” “For let the laws be never so much overborne by some one individual’s power, let the spirit of freedom be never so intimidated, still sooner or later they assert themselves” [De officiis 2.24]); on the inside were the inscriptions “Non nummis, virtute paratur” (“Acquired not by money but by virtue”) and “Ita cuique eveniat ut de republica meruit” (“Thus let each receive what he has deserved of the republic,” an altered quote from Cicero’s Second Philippic, where it reads “…ut de republica quisque mereatur”).[3] The box was preserved as a family heirloom for many years and is now in the custody of the Atwater Kent Museum near Independence Hall, Philadelphia. Each year the Philadelphia Bar Association presents a replica of the box to the outgoing Chancellor of the Association.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Peter_Zenger

That’s actually been raised as a legitimate objection. (Another similar objection is that transgendered people might be covered under anti-discrimination laws that ban discrimination based on medical conditions.) Unfortunately, since insurance usually doesn’t cover the cost of transition anyway, it’s generally a moot point.

I think that was a particularly outrageous case though, in a particular place (British Columbia); even back then (1978) I saw much more scathing editorializing than that.

Technically, it would be possible for Zucker to sue in Canada, where he would have a much better chance of not being immediately laughed out of court. There is Commonwealth case law (e.g. the Dow Jones.com case in Australia, the citation of which doesn’t come to mind just now) stating that a “publication” for defamation/libel purposes occurs anywhere where the claimant has a reputation, so even if the complained-of claim is posted by a US citizen and resident on a server located in the US, Canadian courts could assert jurisdiction. (It should be noted that just about every country in the world has a provision in its laws allowing for the assertion of jurisdiction over some crimes and torts committed abroad by foreign citizens, the US included).

However, the US authorities would have to be involved in order to enforce any judgement obtained in Canada, and that is why Zucker’s threatened lawsuit, whether filed in the US OR Canada, is utterly pointless. In the US, a public figure such as Zucker can’t even get into court unless he proves that the complained-of statements are not only untrue but either made in the knowledge that they were untrue or made with “reckless disregard” for the truth. People with much better cases than Zucker (i.e. people who are suing for claims that are actually false) have been laughed out of court in the U.S. Since NY Times v. Sullivan in the 1960s, it is all but impossible for a public figure to win a defamation or libel case in US courts except in the most egregious cases.

@peet: I wouldn’t use as strong language as you have, but I can understand your anger. If Canadians had interfered in U.S. healthcare, justice, business and foreign policy the same way they regularly do in our country Bush would have invaded by now. You should hear some of the ignorant shit your ambassadors have said in recent years.

FWIW, I believe there is ample evidence to show that transsexuality has a biological basis and is a medical condition that can be treated with hormone therapy and surgery. I do think that GID is a valid psychological condition caused when a person is coerced into presenting to the world a gender expression that is inconsistent with their innate gender. A person can be trans and not have GID.

I agree peaceful relations between our countries is a good thing; Canada is your biggest trading partner too, and we provide more of your oil and electricity than any other country.

This Canadian idiot threatening to sue someone down there is not the stuff of international incidents. People pull stupid shit like this every day; the only reason why you may not see it so often is because your country is 10 times our size, and not as aware of what is going on outside your borders.

You should check out what the Westboro Baptist Church “God Hates Fags” hate group has to say about gay rights in Canada. They tried to come picket the funeral of a poor fellow who was decapitated on a bus this summer. He wasn’t even gay, and they claimed it was God’s vengance for Canada allowing same-sex pmarriage and other “evils”. People were outraged, but nobody blamed the U.S. as a nation for these wackos

I don’t think anyone here blames your government for Charles Kopp’s shooting of an Ontario abortion doctor in the 90s.

Pat Buchanan called us “Soviet Canuckistan” a few years back. Nobody threatened to turn off the gas taps and cut the powerlines to the states.

So I agree what this Zucker fellow is doing is outrageous and an invasion, but it has no relation to our country or the rest of our people. It’s just as bad as people blaming all Americans for the stupid things your government sometimes does.

I agree with you!

I hate abuse of the legal system.

However, Canada isn’t helping its case against those sorts of things by entertaining the idea of claiming sovereignty over a non-citizen blogging outside Canada about a truthful item on a web site hosted outside Canada.

Additionally, it’s a dumb strategy. Let’s be honest — the power relationship between the USA and Canada is not one of parity. Canada is dependent on US consumption for about 2/3 of its economic activity — it shouldn’t do things to piss off its biggest customer… especially to protect an idiot like this guy.

Yes. I am always in favor of torturing innocent babies whatever the circumstances. Babies just piss me right off.

Very few have sex reassignment surgery covered by insurance as many insurers see it as a pre-existing condition which is appropriate since it is something one is born.

GID is a vicious pathologicalization just as having homosexuality in the DSM was. It is no more or less than the writing of a Biblical passage in pseudo scientific terminology.

For what it is worth many of us who were treated for transsexualism such as Lynn Conway and myself were treated many years before these bigots invented GID.

Also many of us shun the term transgender in its various permutations. When we describe ourselves in terms of having been treated for transsexualism some of us used WBT for women born transsexual while others use women of transsexual history.

Oh yes? Now given that in the ICD-10, F64.2 falls under the general classification of “Disorders of adult personality and behaviour (F60-F69)”, then please tells me, how are psychiatrists able to keep a straight face when claiming, as they do, that the ADULT personality of a CHILD is mentally disordered?! GO AHEAD, tell me.

Who would ever have thought that CHILDREN even have ADULT personalities to become disordered? And what is goddess’s name is a young child’s “adult personality” in the first place?

Of course the real answer is that the mental illness section of the ICD is just as much stuff and nonsense as the sexual and gender sections of the DSM. Psychiatry related to sex is, at best, a waste of time and money, and at worse toxic in the extreme. It is outrageous that in some places public money is thrown away on sex psychiatry aka hocus-pocus.

Joelle Ruby Ryan’s workshop at IFGE this week was a tremendous success. Lynn Conway, Joelle’s Point Foundation Mentor, Video’d the presentation and will be reporting on the workshop soon.

The ICD also does a much better job defining GID in CHildren that the DSM does:
“F64.2 Gender identity disorder of childhood
A disorder, usually first manifest during early childhood (and always well before puberty), characterized by a persistent and intense distress about assigned sex, together with a desire to be (or insistence that one is) of the other sex. There is a persistent preoccupation with the dress and activities of the opposite sex and repudiation of the individual’s own sex. The diagnosis requires a profound disturbance of the normal gender identity; mere tomboyishness in girls or girlish behaviour in boys is not sufficient.”

@Kim:
Thanks for the info on Friedemann Pfäfflin. I had no idea he had similar beliefs to the BBLZ Axis of Evil.

(BBLZ = Bailey, Blanchard, Lawrence, and Zucker)

…Kathryn

Actually, Americans can be sued in other countries’ courts. If the Americans fail to appear to defend themselves, the foreign courts can pass judgement (or in a criminal case pass sentence).

And the US government has in the past, and should in the future, pursue sanctions against countries that abuse the legal process by trying other countries’ residents for “crimes” not committed in that country.

It’s hilarious to watch the EU courts bitch about Gitmo when so many of them are willing to charge a California resident who runs a California company for a business decision made in California that they don’t like in Lickballs, Belgium.

Either Dr. Zucker has instructed his lawyer to tell porkies on his behalf or we will soon see Dr. Zucker step down from DSM-V activity. After all, neither Dr. Zucker nor anyone else would want to see the revision of the DSM-V clouded and tarnished by being, in significant part, directed by someone whose professional and personal reputation has been harmed in a way that cannot be repaired.

We will soon see, either attorney Jacobsen is telling the truth or he is not.