http://www.caivp.org/article/p.....osure-laws

It is very exciting to expeirence the Pride of the Gay community. Not only in California, but all over the country.

We own much to the majority for giving us the reason to unite in a way I have not known in my 40 years of being Gay.

This will be our greatest battle and when it comes to your State, California will be there to support your cause. Make not mistake that national is the goal in a long range view.

Read.

That’s already been addressed, repeatedly.

The Mormon churches are being targeted because they were very instrumental in raising funds + getting their members to volunteer to help pass Prop 8.

If that was a thinly-veiled attempt at calling me a pedo…failed.

I’m attracted to men, not children.

Which is why you’re not my type.

We’ll see what the Court does. Just about every opinion I’ve read and heard from legal minds say that this is not the same as the Prop. 22 issue back in May.

Cub scout?

I’m sure you’d like that.

Yeah, rationality, right.

At least we know of one animal that’s definitely on your “farm”, Ted.

An ass.

As for the democratic argument, it’s called a constitutional republic for a reason. The Cali Supreme Court ruled it unconstitutional to deny gays the same legal marriage rights afforded to hets. Hence, their overturning of Prop 22.

If you think these “spoiled children” won’t eventually get their way in Cali (as we already have in other states here + countries elsewhere) you are sadly, sadly mistaken.

Peace out, cub scout.

Don’t bother. You’re much too rational. The queers are “inflamed” and totally out of sorts. The estrogen just floods out of their pores.

They’ll stick to harassing polite Mormons, who they know won’t retaliate in any way. What they won’t do is go into the heart of East Oakland, or Richmond’s Iron Triangle, or Watts, or East LA to throw their petulant little fits in the faces of the people who attend Hispanic and Black churches that also supported Prop 8.

This will all backfire on them. I’ve heard from some people who were more-or-less ambivalent towards gays and who voted no on 8. But now they’re pissed because they don’t like seeing people complain about a democratic vote…and because a few of them have got stuck in traffic due to these idiots.

Most Americans can appreciate a good protest now and again. But not when it’s done in protest of something those same Americans cherish: their vote. And particularly when it’s carried out by people who engage in a “lifestyle” that most Americans do not condone, and when the manner of protest is akin to spoiled children who can’t have their way.

MLK supported boycotts, ever hear of Rosa Parks?
MLK also had a close friend who organised the Poor People’s March on Washington, he was a gay quaker Bayard Rustin, who sacrificed his human rights so that his being gay wouldn’t distract from racial equality. Coretta King recognised LGBTs struggle for equality, and was a valued ally.

see that RELIGION, that means you can’t be sued for your religious beliefs…so no minister is going to forced to do anything against their religious beliefs….PERIOD

LGBTs should have OUR church MCC sue the federal government that we believe in same sex marriage and DOMA violates OUR religious beliefs. Hey, if Navajos can get a pass on peyote, we should have a 50 50 chance.

Personally, I am ambivalent about gay marriage, or straight marriage or polygamist marriage, What I am not ambivalent about is rights. What the state grants one, the state must grant all. Not too long ago it was illeagal in certain parts of the south for a black man to marry a white woman… was this wrong? What if the Majority says that a black man should not marry a white woman… What if the Majority says that owning another human being is okay… provided his skin color is black?

By my reckoning the Majority has been on the wrong side more often than not. For those who say marriage is a tradition that has only been between a man and woman for thousands of years, I say look at some other cultures, you might find that statement to be a little inacurate. For those that say we are a christian nation with christian values. I would advise you to read the Bill of Rights (pay close attention the the first amendment)

This isn’t a matter of religion or belief, its a matter of right, and to take away rights of any group because of a something they cannot change is wrong.

The whole lawsuit against churches argument is flimsy as all hell.

We’re not fighting for church marriages, but civil ones that can be sanctioned by the individual churches at their own discretion. Frankly, I don’t see how it’s any of yours or your church’s business whether gays can call their unions “marriages” by law or not, seeing as there are places where gays are getting married within the U.S. + it hasn’t adversely affected your own marriage, assuming that you’re even married.

Btw, if religious types who oppose gay marriage on the grounds that it destroys the “sanctity of marriage”, why not spend their monies + effort on making marriage (for anyone) or divorce more difficult to attain? Hmmm

Guess you still don’t see, do you? Hey, I am not a Nobel lauriet for my papers, so keep in mind there’s probably 100 better ways to say what I’ve said, but the point is the same. You and I disagree, and who’s to say YOUR right and I’M wrong? Not you. The people spoke, and I think they spoke in line with what I said. You can deal with it, let it motivate you for some change (hint: look at what MLK did, the man was brilliant!) or you can add fuel to the fire and set yourself and your peers back a decade or so. Looks like you have made your choice.

And who said anything about spending your money? I certainly didn’t. I’m (a fiscal) conservative, that means I’m for ME spending MY money however I like, and yes YOU spending YOUR money however you like, gay related or otherwise. Guess you ran out of rational debates.

If you took the time to read what I took the time to write, you would see that I am not opposed to civil unions for gays. I am, as a Christian man, opposed to marriages for gays. The reasons are many, but the least not of which involves a lawsuit that might force my church to perform gay wedding ceremonies as they do for straight. My church represents my beliefs, and long before a gay wedding happens in there hell will freeze over.

MLK knew how to change the world. You just know how to throw fuel on the fire and make it harder for your gay and lesbian brethren. Guess that’s fine for me, as it only helps my cause!

Sincerely,

Joe

Stupid argument. It’s already been proven + stated repeatedly that children in same-sex parent households are no mentally worse off than those in opposite-sex parent households. It’d be like arguing that only gay parents make gay kids, when we know that isn’t true.

As for the handicapping thing, any kid growing up in your household is at a distinct disadvantage + will hopefully get lots of therapy + exposure to a more progressive viewpoint in the future.

NOTHING in Prop 8 keeps gay content off your nightly prime time veiwing pleasure. OBVIOUSLY there is a market for gay content since it shows up on some of the highest rated shows, Ugly Betty, Brothers and Sisters, Desperate Housewives, Ellen, Oprah, the View, Rachel Maddow, Starter Wives, Cold Case, Daily Show, Colbert, Keith Olbermann…etc,etc,etc

My p*ssing you off is part of the blowback, and I’d say it’s WORKING.
LGBTs have at our disposal funds to help out many of the LGBT businesses which might be hurt in UT, we did the same thing in Colorado. If you are concerned with the straight folks in UT hurt by LGBTs not buying their products or traveling to UT, then YOU FUND those straight business people, and YOU travel to UT.
Don’t tell me or any queer where we HAVE to spend our money. WE are already funding your G*D DAMN 1000 “special Rights” heterosexual couples qualify for, that my partner is denied.
When I die my partner doesn’t get a portion of my Social Security as a straight spouse receives. My children wouldn’t have Social Security pay for their schooling, after my death.
WHERE the f*ck do you get off denying US the SAME benefits we fund for YOU?

All I’m saying is be gay but don’t make a kids life more dificult because you want something.

The cardinal rule: find happiness without negatively effecting others.

Do you really think a kid will have a well rounded view being raised by two same sex parents? I don’t care what anyone does to themselves but I do care about what people do when kids are involved.

Yes some parents are single, some are sluts, some on drugs and some gay. At least try not to project this confusion onto a kid. They need a chance to have a happy life. It’s only fair for them.

There are over 600,000 Mormons in California…I think they did just fine by themselves.

Thank you…we love having more room on our slopes. You honestly think Utah is going to miss you?? ha!

As for a democratic society, we live in a constitutional republic + the Cali Supreme Court already ruled it unconstitutional to deny gays marriage rights, which is why we had said rights in the first place until Prop 8 removed them. Also, the majority should never, ever, ever get to vote on what rights we deny the majority, particularly not based on their own chosen religious beliefs.

Uncle Fatlips
http://unclefatlips.com/?p=935
Gays Bypass Man In Mirror: Blames Prop 8 Passage On Blacks Hispanics And Mormons

Jess
http://www.anolite.echoz.com

In a nutshell, I respectfully disagree that it is bigoted to think homosexuality isn’t “okay” and the norm. Acceptable and tolerable, sure, to each their own, I too should have the same level of acceptance from you as you expect from me. That level of acceptance to not be called a bigot because I disagree or you called a name of hatred because of your sexual orientation.

And lastly, yes I see plenty of outright bigots, especially around election time holding signs, but I think those are the vocal minority, not the voting majority. At least from my circles.

- Joe

So at what point does my point of view become second to yours? In all of this “Gay rights, Gay pride” you seem to think the rest of us condone your behavior and want this to be the norm that shows up on TV during prime time, taught to our children in schools and forced upon them in their own personal beliefs. You would call someone who disagrees with your sexual orientation as biggoted. I see it as my right to choose what I do and do not condone. I for one do not condone homosexuality. I do not. It’s your opinion and what you do behind closed doors is your business, but if you’re going to ask me to vote for laws to form the basis for our national identity and “acceptable practices” for media, et.al., gay pride isn’t high on my list.

And further, those lame comments you made re:shutting down the state. Do you really feel you are that powerful? Really, you are going to bring down a state? I don’t live there, but if I did I would make this a cause de celeb and pronounce my stand and I bet my business would thrive! Too often if someone doesn’t like what YOU (the gay/lesbian crowd) want to do, they are suddenly bigoted. It is you who are closed minded to the fact that others do not agree with that behavior and by no means what that to be considered “norm” or acceptable for our children. Your comment re: “And you call yourself a Christian” — YES, YES I DO. Christianity does not condone homosexuality. Then again as a homosexual I bet you feel disenfranchised so I’m sure you’re not up on your Christian theology.

Instead of pushing your views on me, push for equality in law, not reform of my beliefs. By no means do I think harm or prejudice needs to be accepted by someone choosing your lifestyle, but too many times the gay and lesbian crowd is “in your face” and to be honest I want none of it. I personally am tired of this being a “big issue”. There’s other things that matter to me more, and whether you agree or not it’s the fact of life just deal with it. Maybe then you can move on with your hatred.

- Joe

Go, gays, lesbians and anyone and everyone who believes in an equal society.

There is no way in hell they are going to get away with this…

01) Being gay is not natural. Real Americans always reject unnatural things like eyeglasses, polyester, and air conditioning.

02) Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.

03) Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.

04) Straight marriage has been around a long time and hasn’t changed at all; women are still property, blacks still can’t marry whites, and divorce is still illegal.

05) Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage were allowed; the sanctity of Britany Spears’ 55-hour just-for-fun marriage would be destroyed.

06) Straight marriages are valid because they produce children. Gay couples, infertile couples, and old people shouldn’t be allowed to marry because our orphanages aren’t full yet, and the world needs more children.

07) Obviously gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.

08) Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That’s why we have only one religion in America.

09) Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. That’s why we as a society expressly forbid single parents to raise children.

10) Gay marriage will change the foundation of society; we could never adapt to new social norms. Just like we haven’t adapted to cars, the service-sector economy, or longer life spans.

Just know there are many of us who are not gay but we stand with you and will fight for your rights side-by-side.

Mormons are an organized religion. They are being targetted because they have a leadership structure that promoted this. You are playing lets play pretend here, and no one is buying your online surrogacy.

As for Utah, since the state is run by the Mormon Church, an open secret, that’s why it also is being targetted. Again, no one is buying the “we were not involved’ act. The numbers regarding the Mormom church are a matter of public record.