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max mutchnick

“Dykes On Bikes, Tarzana Trannies … should no longer be representing ‘the pride'”

SOUNDBITES — “Dykes on bikes, Tarzana Trannies, Jewish Leather Daddies and Kathy Griffin’s mom. Don’t get me wrong. I love these people. Let’s call them the ‘Usual Suspects.’ They fought for my rights and taught me how to dance. But they should no longer be representing “the pride.” It’s a different time. For god’s sake, Larry Craig is a life-long homosexual. What I’m trying to say is that “unremarkable” mainstream people are gay, too. So I cringe when a local newsperson shoves a microphone in the face of some young 95-pound twink (Straight Translation: a twink is a skinny homosexual with a lot of moxie). The twink looks into the camera and screams into the reporter’s microphone: ‘Get down here now. The drinks are big. But you know what’s bigger…’ He laughs in a high-pitched cackle and his “girlfriends” join in. I wish they’d read more and drink less. I’m depressed. Why is this the voice speaking for me?” —Will & Grace creator Max Mutchnick on the state of gay pride [HP]

By:           editor editor
On:           Jun 19, 2009
Tagged: , ,
  • 83 Comments
    • what
      what

      +1 for Max. Exactly my perspective too.

      Felt that should be commented before the trolls wake up with the ridiculous “assimilation” and “internalized-homophobia” statements that seem to be their only justification for living their idea of what “gay culture” is today.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 10:29 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Nickadoo
      Nickadoo

      “I’m depressed. Why is this the voice speaking for me?”

      Hmmm… Maybe because you’re not there, speaking for yourself?

      Jun 19, 2009 at 10:32 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Orpheus_lost
      Orpheus_lost

      Pure internalized homophobia. Mutchnick doesn’t want equal rights for the GLBT community, he wants equal rights for gays who act like he does. There will always be a few of this crowd but they are definitely the minority.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 10:39 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mike
      Mike

      Nickadoo for the win.

      While I understand this sort of feeling (and even sympathize, to a degree), why don’t the “unremarkable” gays make it a point to force their way in front of the camera? Or bring their own cameras? It’s silly to villainize effeminate drunks at Pride Parade! It’s ridiculous.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 10:41 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • RobS
      RobS

      @Nickadoo: HA! Good one.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 10:43 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • galefan2004
      galefan2004

      Here I was thinking this movement and this country was about diversity. You know what, lets all fight each other and stop fighting for our rights. Then the religious right who sees all people that take (or give) a dick up the ass (or in the mouth) as fagots can sit back and laugh as we crucify each other much better than they ever could.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 10:50 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Nick
      Nick

      It’s like he never created the character of Jack

      Jun 19, 2009 at 10:55 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Puck
      Puck

      Its up to everyone from all walks of life, from every culture and community to come forward and say “Here I am, I am human and deserve the same treatment as everyone else. To deny me equal treatment is to deny my humanity. Am I less than human?”

      Jun 19, 2009 at 11:04 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • strumpetwindsock
      strumpetwindsock

      I don’t let straights tell me what to do.
      Why should I let queers do it?

      I don’t represent you. I represent me.

      If you want to show how “normal” you are then cough up the five bucks and get your own damn float in the parade.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 11:16 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • A Hapless Orphan
      A Hapless Orphan

      Well, this is what happens when we embrace marriage as the only avenue for agitation in the gay movement. I completely agree with many of the commenters here that what Mutchnick wants is not equality for all gay people, but just for those who act “normal” and “proper,” those who play the good faggot that heterosexuals can appreciate, the good faggot who doesn’t make them question the inherent morality of their own social relationships and who doesn’t offer them scary alternative modes of living. Mutchnick doesn’t want to be confronted with those faggots that make his haute bourgeois values seem somehow less special. And notice, of course, how sex-phobic he is, so scared of a “twink” reference to genitalia that he can’t even bring himself to write “cock,” “dick,” or the medical “penis.” This is, of course, ridiculous, and not what the gay movement stood for at its inception.

      What we need is equal rights for EVERYONE, and to celebrate the sexual and social diversity that is inherent to the queer public. That is what we’re fighting for, and that’s the real battle that those assimilationist goons at the HRC, etc. are trying to brush under the violet carpet. It’s not equality if you throw everyone who’s not like you under the bus Mary!

      Jun 19, 2009 at 11:17 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Art
      Art

      I have been hearing this argument for than 20 years – the more outrageous among us are ruining our reputation and making us look evil to straight America.

      I was just at LA Gay Pride last weekend and my awe and pride of the diversity of our community was reinforced.

      I say bring on the cleancut gay doctors AND the Bull Dykes into leather!

      God Bless Us Everyone

      Isn’t that the whole fucking point?!?

      Jun 19, 2009 at 11:28 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • strumpetwindsock
      strumpetwindsock

      Actually come to think of it last time I was at Pride in Vancouver the parade was led by the gay police and firefighters.

      The parade I was at in Winnipeg last week didn’t just have floats from the clubs, but also unions, churches, faculty and student associations, political parties, sports groups, family support groups, parents of GLBTs, and lots of those “normal” people that buddy is talking about.

      If he’s feeling ashamed because there aren’t any normal people representing him them he’s probably not looking hard enough, or too busy focusing on people who offend him.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 11:32 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Glynn
      Glynn

      What we need is one of the special days where you take something to work with you – how about “Take a Screaming Nellie Twink to Work Day” – that should sort out the bigots from the no guts. and realllllllly boring.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 11:38 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Miss Understood
      Miss Understood

      What exactly is a Tarzana Trannie and why does he think he’s better than them? Why does a lesbian on a motorcycle have less rights to just be herself than an accountant in a T-shirt?

      I can see why a person might complain about a spokesperson from the HRC “representing them” but to pick on people who are being themselves and doing their own thing is just fascist. What does he suggest, we walk up and down the line and kick out people he doesn’t like? Are shorter trannies allowed? Lesbians on scooters? What’s his opinion on fat people? Doe he like black people? His casting people never seemed to fond of them.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 11:45 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bob
      Bob

      We are a diverse family made up of all types of men and women. We should not have to live-up to the standards of the straight acting person. We are who we are, straight acting, butch, fem, tranny, queer….etc. They are all our family and we should be proud to match together!!! So I say, be yourselves twinks and dykes on bikes. You are loved by all but a few in our community. Don’t listen to narrow minded self-hating bigots like this.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 11:54 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Gary
      Gary

      I have a hard time understanding the sincerity of this coming from the man who brought us “Jack McFarland & Karen Walker”.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 12:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • edgyguy1426
      edgyguy1426

      @what: So, umm, were the above explanations ridiculous enough for you?

      Jun 19, 2009 at 12:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • troy
      troy

      I am gay, married, upper income, have 37 pairs of Prada shoes in the closet. Have a beautiful home that any upper middle class straight person would kill for. Drive a black 4 door Benz, have an English Pointer, don’t go to bars much, don’t do drugs, practice spirituality (not religion). I am not extremely effeminate, (and I don’t say that because I am proud of it) My point is not to be pretentious, nobody here knows me anyway, but to point out that other than my sexual orientation I am what most straight people would find perfectly acceptable if they had to live next door to a gay person.

      But I envy and admire any LGBTQ person who has the courage to express who they are fully and completely. I recently went to a fund raising event that featured the late 80’s Vogue theme. Here we were with all these wonderful Drag Queens, beautiful young and some not so young folks who were dressed in fabulous gender bender clothing, dancing there assess off in the competitions and “modeling” displays. My partner and I had a blast and I felt such pride for these unique, creative expressions of our own kind. Though I like and appreciate who I am and what I have I will say it does not take all that much courage to achieve what my husband and I have achieved. But to allow ones self to totally express the parts of themselves that do not align with the general population and enjoy it takes great courage and my hats off to all who put themselves out there fully during our Pride festivities for those of us who appreciate them to enjoy, for those who long to broaden themselves by seeing these expressions and to make those who would have us otherwise (including many of our own kind) uncomfortable. As human beings we are many things and Pride gives us a chance to show the full rainbow of who we are.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 12:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ChicagoJimmy
      ChicagoJimmy

      WHAT A BUNCH OF CRAP! Every June we hear from the same bunch of folks with a big stick up their ass who constantly complain that these “usual suspects” don’t speak for them. I want to know if these folks have been to a gay pride parade recently. Sure there are drag queens and twinky boys, muscle daddies and diesel dykes, but there are also cute couples with little kids (gay and straight), PFLAG is always well-represented, politicians looking for votes, and every other type and color of person imaginable. Doesn’t the rainbow flag represent our diversity? Isn’t the idea that everyone should be proud of who they are.

      Big shout out @Nickadoo: You nailed it on the head!

      Jun 19, 2009 at 12:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • rainboltart
      rainboltart

      While we strive for people to embrace our diversity, we cringe at the diversity within. The argument us so 1980’s. I’m as tired of it as I was with Will&Grace when it finally ended.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 12:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • troy
      troy

      and by the way, though I enjoyed Will & Grace there was a certain degree of homophobia evident in the show. Will was always portrayed as conservative and together but the character “Jack” though he was funny was the character who displayed effeminate characteristics that they lumped together with acute narcissistic, insensitive, vapid and shallow character traits. The entire show displayed the split that obviously, from his above comments, lives in Match Mutchnicks soul.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 12:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • troy
      troy

      I meant to say “that lives in Match Mutchnicks soul.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 12:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Qjersey
      Qjersey

      @Nick:

      ‘Get down here now. The drinks are big. But you know what’s bigger…’ Right on, this is something Jack would have said

      And he should be bitching that the reporters always target “these types” for the camera.

      In a sea of “normal” looking LGBTer’s the news always focuses in on the drag queens, leather daddies and bulldykes.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 12:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • troy
      troy

      @Qjersey: And so does the gay community, cause they are fun and we are a bore, the price we pay for self repression.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 12:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Gary
      Gary

      @troy: That was my point (above). How can the man who created these characters be sincere with this drivel. . .He’s profited from the exact stereotypes on a weekly network series that he now thinks is bad for homos because once a year that’s what the MSM focuses on?

      Hypocrite.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 12:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • stephan
      stephan

      DYKES ON BIKES, TARZAN TRANNIES, TRANSGENDERED PEOPLE ARE THE NEW GAY

      Jun 19, 2009 at 12:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dennis
      Dennis

      Wow, think how much FUN would pride be with thousands of boring ass corporate professionals marching down the street in khakis and button downs chanting “We’re here, we’re normal, we’re just as boring as anyone”…I can’t wait.

      Lighten the “F” up, Max…and free your mind, we’re supposed to challenge the status quo, to shine a little brighter, to be fabulous, and creative and yes, fucking flamboyant if that’s what we WANT to do…or be as “normal” as you choose. It’s called freedom of expression, and it’s actually important “work” on some level. There are FAR TOO MANY places on the planet where people have no such freedom.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 12:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • michael
      michael

      @troy: Troy you sound a lot like me. I look and act really normal and acceptable to most average people out there, the kinda gay guy that you might let babysit for you or invite to a dinner party to show how worldly and progressive you are.

      But this post has brought something up for me. Something I try to keep hidden in the dark corners of my mind. When I was really young 6 and under I loved to dance, I loved dress to in my moms & grandmothers high heels and dresses. I was always copying the flamboyant people I saw on TV (It was the late 60’s & such a cool period). When my grandparents, my aunts and uncles would come over I would dress up and dance. One of my aunts even bought me full hula costume. But my pain began when I would hear my grandfather say to my mom things like “you better get Michael out of those clothes before his father gets home cause he will hit the roof if he sees him like this”. I got the message that it was only okay and safe around certain people to express myself this way. Then one day, a day I will never forget happened, my Dad came home unexpected and there I was in moms dress and shoes and jewelry, I was 5 almost 6 and what I always heard the relatives say came true. He beat me mercilessly called my a sissy and names I don’t remember, cursed at my mother while she screamed at him to stop hitting me. That little boy died that day, who knows what he might have been had he been nurtured and loved instead of abused like that.

      So fuck any of you who criticize those who have overcome the world and found away to let the little gay boy, or little gay girl live in the light, even if its just for one parade. One thing I remember about the little boy who lives still lives in my soul. He’s not vapid or shallow or cruel or mean, he is sensitive and loves deeply, he’s no Jack and he’s no Will. Pride is a Holy day, week, month, how ever long you celebrate it, but it is holy, its our Easter, where we get to arise and show who we really are, scars and all.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 1:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • osocubano
      osocubano

      If everyone marched down the avenue looking loke Log Cabin girls, who would notice?

      Jun 19, 2009 at 1:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kieren
      Kieren

      What the #@*(&!

      He thanks them for marching for him, but they can now toddle off to their closets because, well, he’s done with them?

      Don’t march in my parade, max, ‘cuz you don’t speak for me. Give me the Leather Daddies AND Dykes on Bikes AND PFLAG AND everyone else who wants to celebrate diversity in this amazing community.

      Do us all a favor, Max, and stay home.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 1:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • scott ny'er
      scott ny'er

      Now I understand how Max Mutchnick made it in Republican ruled Hollywood.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 1:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • InExile
      InExile

      Love Dykes On Bikes and the Leather Daddys! No gay pride parade is complete without them. Anyway in all the parades there are plenty of boring “normal” people, so everyone should be happy.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 2:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tom
      Tom

      Go fuck yourself, Mutchnick.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 2:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Gary
      Gary

      @michael: GO MICHAEL.

      Your post says a lot about many of us who grew up in that era, unfortunately the attitude prevails today in society.

      Boys playing dress-up doesn’t mean they’ll grow up to be gay, but the societal pressure to conform to masculine or feminine roles most certainly has damaged an overwhelming percentage of the LGBT population.

      It has also damaged an overwhelming percentage of straight people who grow up overcompensating for the gender roles beaten into them.

      I know the point that Mutchnick is trying to make, but his argument has been going on forever. The parades are always covered by the media using the extreme, and yes . .shame on them, because there are many and plenty other things to create a news story around. . .but . . .here we go again. . .the annual “assless chaps! women on motorcycles! naked men in wigs! 110lb boy/man talks funny!” media coverage.

      The news gets a rating boost? . . . hard to say.

      I will say that many of us supposed “normal” gay and lesbian families will be out in bigger numbers showing our pride this year . . .AND showing our support for every color on the flag without reservation about what Mutchnick thinks.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 2:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • edgyguy1426
      edgyguy1426

      @Dennis: Right? That’s like having to wear suits and ties to protest before Stinewall because we wanted to appear ‘normal.’ (yawn)

      Jun 19, 2009 at 2:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • osocubano
      osocubano

      RuPaul once said something to the effect of:

      “We’re born naked, and anything we put on is drag”

      It’s so brilliant, I doubt he actually said it.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 3:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • mds
      mds

      As long as we label things as “normal” “extreme”, out there we are in trouble. All of those terms are judgments and who gets to decide what fits into those boxes? Mutchnick seems to suffer from what a lot of people suffer from and that is that he derives his self esteem by what he thinks others think of him. Yes the media picks up on what they pick up on and they do it for whatever reasons they do it for. That their stuff and why do I care. I know who I am and isn’t not needing everyone to see you the way you need to be seen the ultimate salvation? Being loved is nice, but loving yourself is much, much, nicer.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 3:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • michael
      michael

      Max just does not like the mirror. I have a feeling he is a lot more Jack and a lot less Jill, I mean Will!

      Jun 19, 2009 at 3:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • M Shane
      M Shane

      “Unremarkable MAINSTREAM people” don’t belong in priide especially. Just because they have managed to establish a closet , and appeal to straight people pretty much means that they have little to be proud of. The fact that we are indeed remarkable is what pride is about.

      Anyone with a pimples worth of cultural knowledge knows that the “mainstreaming ” of gay people is the dreath of gay liberation: assimilation.

      Tell them to tuck themselves amid the suburban houswives in their curlers.

      BTW, a “Twink” to my knowledge is just gay slang for a young inexperienced person.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 3:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      This guy created will and grace? LMAO! The nerve–the absolute hypocrisy of this statement is hilarious. Will and grace featured every horrendously negative stereotype about gay men imaignable save, perhaps, drug abuse (though that, too). It was a stagnant show bereft of any semblance of humor…the characters were these two dimensional stick figures who you didn’t care about. I couldn’t see through more than three episodes without cringing at how backward it was. I was convinced a straight person who despised gays wrote it.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 3:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      The only reason it was a success is because straight america wanted to laugh at this self loathing pig’s (and theirs) “perception” of gays. He made his money berating gay people for laughs.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 3:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Martha
      Martha

      Max lives a privileged life in a mansion from his “SWISH & FETCHIT” sitcom ‘Will & Grace’ and he has the NERVE to criticize PRIDE parades ?

      Who the hell is HE for us to care about his opinion?

      He probably has his head so far up Obama’s ass it is scary. All he knows how to be is a card-carrying Jewish Liberal Democrat who writes checks.

      Sadly, he is still a 3rd class citizen in California.

      An angry activist who demands FULL EQUALITY he aint.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 3:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jeff
      Jeff

      What a load of shit. He’s the same person that got up at the Meet in the Middle march in Fresno going on about how he’s not a gay activist but…blah blah blah.

      This criticism is so played. Get over yourself. Remember, not everyone leads the privileged, fabulous A Gay lifestyle like you and your hubby. We can’t all live in the hills and hire women to have our children. Some of us live in the real world and lead normal lives and don’t have the money or means to fight the discrimination we experience every day.

      So do us a favor: pipe down, continue to keep cutting those checks (to make yourself feel better) and let us real queens do your dirty work. That way everyone’s happy.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 3:59 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • strumpetwindsock
      strumpetwindsock

      @Martha:
      LOL

      I was wondering how long it would take before this became Obama’s fault.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 4:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • john
      john

      Back the truck up…did he just talk about a twink that doesn’t speak for him? And Jack was the queeniest, stereotype of a gay character the tv has had since Paul Lind played Uncle Arthur on Bewitched?
      I actually agree with Max, I’m sad that pride has been taken over by alcohol corporations who gather muscle-meth boys and put them in jockstraps and have them dance for all the world to see while the rest of us scream “we are just like you, we want equal right too”.. Why can’t these floats be community leaders and writers and artists and teachers, etc? why is our pride all about men in drag or men in their underwear and then some tough looking lesbians?
      I haven’t been to a pride parade or festival since the mid-90’s because it just got too depressing. I will definitely go when the parades catch up to what being gay is in 2009. It just doesn’t speak to the 22 year old twink in me anymore who wanted to go cruise hot guys, take some Ecstacy and dance all night in the dance tent..
      Max is right, but he’s the wrong person to say it.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 4:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bertie
      Bertie

      Max, you are a fucking schmendrick.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 4:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • galefan2004
      galefan2004

      @Qjersey: The fact that the news always focuses in on the more queer (daddies, twinks, go-go boys, queens) among the crowd is simply to sell the story. Lets face it, if we all looked exactly like straight people in tuxedos there would be nothing to cover.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 4:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bertie
      Bertie

      @john:

      haven’t been to Pride prade since the 90s — and it shows.

      You would be aurprised at all the (somewhat) marriedgays with kids now.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 4:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Gary
      Gary

      @mds: The terms “normal and extreme” aren’t mine and when I use them they are meant to be a parody of the terms because they are both irrational.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 4:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • RainaWeather
      RainaWeather

      Well to quote my favorite character from his show, “I’d rather be a fag than afraid”

      Jun 19, 2009 at 4:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • strumpetwindsock
      strumpetwindsock

      @john:

      Not to be presumptious, but if you aren’t involved organizing your pride celebrations perhaps you should be… or organize float or a non-club group to march.

      The Pride Celebrations I have been to (four cities) DO include community groups, teachers, children, professionals, unions, churches and many other groups. Sure the clubs and societies are there with all the feathers and balloons, but they are obviously not the only people there. The RCMP (the mounties) even had a recruiting booth at Winnipeg Pride two weekends ago.

      If there’s something you see missing, the solution is to be the solution and make it happen.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 4:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lesbionic
      Lesbionic

      Max is the same enlightened soul who called his kid’s surrogate mother: “an oven.”

      Yes, Maxie boy is a real class act. HA!

      While the rest of us are screaming for equality – you just worry about the kids matching the drapes, okay?

      Jun 19, 2009 at 4:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Aaron
      Aaron

      Card carrying homo democrat with his head up Obama’s ass.

      And rich for creating a SWISH and FETCHIT character on a sitcom

      Who CARES what this smendrick thinks?

      Jun 19, 2009 at 4:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • galefan2004
      galefan2004

      @john: This is a gay site. Please go be a self-hating homo assimilationist asshole on another site. I recommend any of those sites that have oxymoron ideas like gay republican.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 4:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Rick Heintz
      Rick Heintz

      WTF?!? Hey Max… You don’t want skinny, queens speaking for you but you created and made a shit load of money off Jack McFarland! Give me a break dude! Are you going to be excluding the bears next? How about the muscle heads?

      You should try being a part of the diverse LGBT Community rather than excluding people you don’t deem fit. Kind of like how the right wing treats us…ya think?

      Jun 19, 2009 at 4:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kid A
      Kid A

      I’m not going to get into whether he’s right, wrong, or somewhere in between, but I’d like to pose a thought (this may have been discussed already; if so I apologize):

      It seems to me that we get people like Larry Craig, Ted Haggard, et al. because average Joe gay men don’t feel like they have a place at the table. Many middle-aged “late bloomers” with graying hair and retirement to think of can’t identify with the youth-driven popular image of “gayness.” So they say “that’s not me” and keep trying to half-mast their wives and vent their desires in inappropriate venues.

      I know that when i was coming to terms and growing into my queerness that it was almost like a paradigm shift: I have the same feelings and ideas as the people TV portrays, but I’m not like them. But I am one of them… It’s an odd feeling that I know some of us have had. Not all, of course, but some.

      What if we don’t specifically tame the fun, youthful, party image that some love, but keep that and INCLUDE the older, less-obvious queers that are underrepresented. Instead of taking a place away from the total queens, how about inviting gramps? No one feels restricted, and our image benefits by showing that many queer people are fairly nondescript. The family just gets bigger.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 5:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • galefan2004
      galefan2004

      @Kid A: Gramps was never uninvited. He just never decided to RSVP. Seriously, you can’t blame the community that shows up for the community that doesn’t. In my experience, the majority of the gay community has a lot of respect for its elders. Maybe that is just my experience however. Hell, one of the dudes that used to design my outfits was old enough to be my father and we had a very close non-sexual relationship. My very first images, when I was growing up and coming to terms, were from Police Academy and the scene where they send the one dude to the gay leather bar. That was enough to scare the hell out of me. However, I’m not coming out and saying that all gay men should stop being leather queens.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 6:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DeAnimator
      DeAnimator

      This guy is the same idiot who brought us tons of degrading shows. Why is Will & Grace representing a big chunk of the gay community? Oh that’s right. Because you created it- to capitalize off your own. He needs to shut the hell up and take his own advice.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 6:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JK
      JK

      Nickadoo and Orpheus_Lost have it right. As the aforementioned embarrassment to the absentee portion of the community, I highly encourage more participation from the wealthy “average joe” types, especially when the average joe is a hyperwealthy gay man who is really proud of having cast a load of straight people in vainly superficial imitations of Pop Gay Life. You’re not my representative, Mutchnick. Shut up and hit the streets, like we’ve been doing all of our limited adult lives.

      I get so tired of hearing this shit. It’s this outlook that let HRC get so big. Hooray! Another overpriced fundraiser social! Sorry for the velvet rope, guys, we can’t let EVERYBODY in to this fierce party for equality.

      Go fuck yourself. I’m wearing my heels out at Pride because I’m proud of myself. I’m not ashamed for you.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 7:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Gary
      Gary

      @galefan2004: Many of us “Gramps” do feel uninvited. We show up with our kids & grandkids. . .I was reminded a couple days ago that I’ve been with my partner for 23 years . .I was that twink on a float who evolved into “gramps” over the years.

      I layed down on the streets and watched my friends die. . .There are a few of us left who lived that experience and you are wrong to say that the gay community has a lot of respect for its elders. . .we are shunned not respected.

      And yet . . .we still get up out of our beds to support you every single day. . .it’s what we fought for.

      Just don’t give up the fight please. . .every stripe on that damned rainbow deserves equality. . .if assless chaps and drag queen nuns are all we get on the nightly news, so be it.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 7:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • mikeincleveland
      mikeincleveland

      no i think the point ultimately is the difference between those that still like to go cruise and have sex in public parks and those from the new generation that realize there’s something new that was created…the APARTMENT

      Jun 19, 2009 at 7:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Gary
      Gary

      @mikeincleveland: I would hope that our new generation knows better, but sex in public parks isn’t just a gay phenom even if the MSM would like to portray it that way.

      There’s also something not so new that was created along with the apartment. . .being OUT and PROUD and developing relationships and families. . .

      “Out and Proud” doesn’t have to mean “freak out the neighbors”. Hell .. our neighbors just this past week ran off the door to door fundies & their pettition . . .

      Nothing shameful about that until some religious zealot decides that his 3rd wife/2nd divorce is more worthy and threatens your Family. . .Granpa’s gloves are off.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 8:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      Many of us “Gramps” do feel uninvited.

      Well maybe if you weren’t so old and stuff…and grumpy and fat…and fat…and old…fold (fat/old). It’s a shame, really. I like old people when they’re…completely out of sight and mind. Old is the new the spice.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 8:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Republican
      Republican

      I see galefan has changed his mind on gay republicans.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 8:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Marius
      Marius

      “… you are wrong to say that the gay community has a lot of respect for its elders…we are shunned not respected.”

      Where would you get an idea like that?

      Jun 19, 2009 at 8:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Gary
      Gary

      @Marius: I didn’t get that idea, I live it.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 9:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Gary
      Gary

      @TANK: Old I’ll embrace, but trust me nobody can or will ever use the term “fat” in my obit.

      I know it’s snark, but some days snark looses it’s humor. . .today is one of those days.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 9:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • typeractive
      typeractive

      It’s a bloody PARADE! All other parades have folks who dress up and act crazy and work the crowd, what does he want? Us all to wear suits and act “proper.”

      Assimilationists been saying this since the first Pride Parade. “I’m proud, just, you know,erase anything that looks, well, too “gay” from the parade will you?”

      I swear, every year, EVERY year, folks say this, since the very first parade started. Get over it already. It’s a PARADE not a bloody funeral.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 10:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Gary
      Gary

      “It’s a PARADE not a bloody funeral.”@typeractive:

      exactly.

      Jun 19, 2009 at 11:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Nickadoo
      Nickadoo

      Of course, the grandest of all ironies in Max’s little diatribe is that the aforementioned “Dykes on Bikes,” “Tarzana Trannies,” “Jewish Leather Daddies,” the “young 95-pound twinks” he’s railing out against, nor most the so-called “unremarkable” mainstream gays he’s attempting to stick up for, don’t have a soapbox as wide, tall and loud as the goddamned Huffington Post.

      What’s the matter, Max? Did you think you’d get bumped for time cos Billy Masters needed to tell the same tired joke seven more times on stage?

      Jun 19, 2009 at 11:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Julian Morrison
      Julian Morrison

      There’s two kinds of rights being fought for here. The right to be gay, which is being won at a good pace now and is close to assured in most parts of the world – and the right to act in ways that breaks gender taboos, which is NOT won to any significant degree, which will still get you bashed, which is still often treated as a dirty kink. When you see it as two fights, not one, then you can see that “let’s only bother with the easy fight” is exactly the wrong answer.

      Jun 20, 2009 at 6:39 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • James Wm Ball III
      James Wm Ball III

      @strumpetwindsock: SOOOOO TRUE!!!

      Jun 20, 2009 at 7:27 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason

      Today’s young gays are incredibly devoid of knowledge about the early struggles towards gay rights. To them, gay rights is about “partying”. Give me a fucking break. Gay rights was about getting rid of sodomy laws and fighting for the right to be left alone.

      If I hear another twink say “get down here, the drinks are great”, I’ll fucking whack them across the ear-hole.

      Jun 20, 2009 at 10:58 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason

      Unfortunately, our beautiful gay rights movement has been taken over by the sleaze set in narcissism mode. The aim is to get a sixpack at the gym and then drink and take drugs before hitting the saunas for a few quick fucks. It’s sad beyond belief.

      It’s about time we gays started criticizing these sorts who really are hell-bent on destroying our movement.

      Jun 20, 2009 at 11:00 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • hephaestion
      hephaestion

      99% of people at gay pride parades ARE “normal folks.” But naturally the media hones in on the outrageous in order to get higher ratings.

      The solution? Get other fun & outrageous stuff in the parade for the media to hone in on, like Sydney has done with its Gay Mardi Gras, full of fantastic floats and outfits and entertainment.

      Here in DC our gay pride parade is flat-out BORING.

      Jun 20, 2009 at 11:06 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • BUTCH
      BUTCH

      Normal Gays and Lesbians are at the Pride Events but it seems the media wants the bare ass crazies.

      Jun 20, 2009 at 11:32 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • michael
      michael

      First of all we live in an era of acute narcissism. Look at the reality shows like “the hills”. People twitter when they are about to take a shit as if everyone cares. The talentless people like Paris Hilton make a career out of just being seen. Unremarkable people post video’s on facebook ranting about how bad their day was working at Starbucks. Gay folks do not hold an exclusive on this stuff. But while stupid twinks who say stupid things while fucked up on the drug of the moment annoy me I am not gonna classify people like Dykes on bikes and other groups that I find really fun, entertaining and a part of our culture, even if its just pop culture, as not belonging, Just look at old films of pardes in San Fran. guys and gals dancing in the streets wearing their Daisy Dukes. Drag Queens on floats performing their hearts out. This is all part of our history and I hope we always have whatever todays version of these things with us. You can be as subdued as you want, nobodies making you be anything but. But you don’t have to shame and belittle those parts of our history that have brought us so much joy and fun.

      Jun 20, 2009 at 1:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tony
      Tony

      Yeah, those damn drag queens, you know the ones who had the balls to stand up and fight at Stonewall, the ones who started the modern day LGBT movement, yeah, those ones, who spoke so that I could have a voice, how dare they march at Pride.

      WTF????

      And um, twinks are young gay men, individuals I hope will face a better life due to the efforts of the above mentioned drag queens, they too should “grow up and man up” right, stop acting like girls, god forbid.

      What a douche. I respect all those who stand proudly for our rights. I am tired of pandering to those who see anything “queer” as less than anyone else.

      Jun 21, 2009 at 7:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Fitz
      Fitz

      All I can say is that we will be at pride, but we will be 90 minutes late. Though we support our sisters, watching 90 minutes of Dikes on Bikes is very boring, and the exhaust is terrible.

      Jun 21, 2009 at 7:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andrew
      Andrew

      I for one and sick and tired of getting pushed out of the way by all the strollers and Gap Khaki wearing accountants!

      Jun 22, 2009 at 2:32 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andrew
      Andrew [Different person #1 using similar name]

      Interesting. In a way, his comment “explains” his characters on Will & Grace. (Jack and Will, in particular) Not dissing the whole show, but I was always put off by some of the recurring themes of the Will character: relationships didn’t work, he’d rather hang out with/sleep with his girlfriend from high school, etc. He always seemed uncomfortable with his own identity. (Not that that doesn’t happen in real life, but interesting that Mutchnick created his character in that way). Jack, well, is pure stereotype. Sean Hayes was great, the character was often funny, but it’s still stereotype. So, Mutchnick creates characters and now laments that people similar to his characters are out there in the real world? It’s OK when Jack “cackles” and is fey, but not when young gay guys “cackle” at a pride festival?

      Dykes on Bikes and a lot of other queers don’t “represent” me, or Mutchnick, or anyone else but themselves. Don’t blame them for being open, courageous, and free enough to have fun at a pride festival and “let it all hang out.” If Mutchnick feels uncomfortable and depressed because of t.v. coverage, he should turn off the t.v. and march in the parade as he is. If you don’t show up, you can’t complain when those who do show up get things going.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 9:12 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kay Fierce
      Kay Fierce

      This coming from the guy, who created a show where gay men were portrayed as superficial and neurotic queens. If Max Mutchnick wants to complain, then he needs to look at himself in the mirror, before blasting others he regard as shameful.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 9:40 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • strumpetwindsock
      strumpetwindsock

      There was a good panel discussion this morning on CBC’s The Current about Toronto’s Pride, which is coming up next weekend.

      It touched on politics in the parade (a queer anti-Israeli occupation group wanted to enter a float) and on separate Lesbian and Trans Parades, which are also happening.

      An interesting interview. You can find the piece in the third part of the show on this page:
      http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/2009/200906/20090622.html

      Jun 22, 2009 at 12:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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