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Even California’s Supreme Court Chief Hates How Prop 8 Got Passed

ronaldgeorge

Rest assured, you’re not the only one who finds it appalling that a some well organized fundraising by the Mormon Church can strip California’s gays of their marriage rights. Supreme Court Chief Justice Ronald M. George — who ruled to uphold Proposition 8 — thinks so too.

By allowing voters to decide almost anything by referendum, the populous has “rendered our state government dysfunctional,” George said during a speech at the American Academy of Arts and Sciences in Massachusetts on Saturday. If you’re unfamiliar with how things work in the Golden State, it goes like this: voters have the final say on just about everything. That’s good for democracy, right? Not always, like in this example, which proves voters with the best intentions act like idiots. (Lawmakers also like to blame voters for the current unfixable budget deficit; voters won’t approve new taxes to increase spending, meaning services get cut, state employees get furloughs, and voters owed income tax returns get IOUs.) LAT:

George, a moderate Republican, has been critical of the initiative process in the past, but his remarks to the national group signaled a sense of urgency and willingness to push for reforms.

George noted that in November, voters passed initiatives to regulate the confinement of fowl in coops and passed Proposition 8, which overturned part of a California Supreme Court ruling that gave gays and lesbians the right to marry.

“Chickens gained valuable rights in California on the same day that gay men and lesbians lost them,” George said.

George was the swing vote in the historic May 2008 decision to end a ban on same-sex marriage. Legal scholars said the 4-3 ruling he wrote would define his legacy.

And it’s not just that California’s way of doing things makes being gay in the state a terrible thing. It makes his job harder, too.

“The court over which I preside frequently is called upon to resolve legal challenges to voter initiatives,” George said in his speech. “Needless to say, we incur the displeasure of the voting public when, in the course of performing our constitutional duties as judges, we are compelled to invalidate such a measure.”

By:           editor editor
On:           Oct 12, 2009
Tagged: , , ,
  • 30 Comments
    • Fitz
      Fitz

      I took a shower next to Jerry Brown once. (club one). He is… wonderful…

      Oct 12, 2009 at 9:03 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • terrwill
      terrwill

      Ok now Jer, how about going about revoking the Moron Churchs tax-exempt status in California now? They clearly violated the statue of separation of state and church which entitles them to the tax-exempt status…………………….

      Oct 12, 2009 at 10:05 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • rodney
      rodney

      Terrwill, More stupid comments like that won’t get you anywhere. Have you even read the tax exception laws for Churches? The Mormon Church can’t be blamed for passing prop 8.

      They make up only 2% of the California population (many of them are not even voters)

      The LDS Church in Salt Lake did not fund prop 8. The individual LDS members across the Nation did directly. They believe in preserving traditional marriage (52% of Californians agree)

      The Prop 8 backers were outspent by several million dollars and still lost. What does that tell you? California isn’t buying what your selling. Not even gay Hollywood could devise a PR campaign to sell your destruction of traditional marriage to voters.

      Bottom line is this: If you want to keep blaming the Mormons..so be it. You’re missing the point and your efforts are futile. For ever Mormon dollar spent there were 3 gay dollars spent….and you lost! Maybe the Mormons are on to something.

      The homosexual agenda is at war with itself. Some of you are still hammering against Mormons while others are trying to make calculated moves for 2010 votes. A group that can’t mobilize can’t win. Mormons can mobilize…and trust me on this one. You wanted a battle, you’ll get one.

      Oct 12, 2009 at 12:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Peter
      Peter

      Rodney, Rodney Rodney…….You just backed up what Terrwill said: When the Mormon Church speaks, the mormons jump in with their cash and become mobilized. No rational thought is required. AND California is NOT even their state.

      Oct 12, 2009 at 12:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      No. 3 · rodney said
      Terrwill, More stupid comments like that won’t get you anywhere. Have you even read the tax exception laws for Churches? The Mormon Church can’t be blamed for passing prop 8.

      They make up only 2% of the California population (many of them are not even voters)
      The LDS Church in Salt Lake did not fund prop 8.
      ___________________________________

      That is a lie, here is a link to one of the many memo’s that have come out of the church headquarters in Salt Lake regarding working nationwide to defeat any pushes for gay marriage.

      http://www.calitics.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=7396

      Rodney, you obviously think that none of us here know anything about the LDS church and you can use the typical church line of “Gee, we didn’t do anything, we’re just gosh darned nice folks.” Sorry but individual churches don’t fundraise and go after political issues without direct communication from Salt Lake, if you are Mormon then you know this and are a liar, if you aren’t Mormon then stop getting all your information from the Salt Lake publicity outlet of the church.

      Oct 12, 2009 at 12:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      Rodney – I don’t have a source in front of me, but seldom if ever is the “pro -Gay” side funded to the tune of 300% more than “anti-Gay” and I don’t think it was in the Prop 8 debacle in Calif.

      And they weren’t necessarily “Gay dollars” spent opposing Prop 8 – some people believe in civil rights and separation of Church & State.

      Traditional marriage? According to who? Read some history – humanity is thousands of years old…..there all kinds of variations in marriage and child raising etc. Our own country, less than 300 years old, allowed same sex marriages in Indian tribes. Bet you didn’t know that. Mi-Wha, a berdache, actually visited the White House in the early 1900’s.

      And you might want to RE-READ the comments made by Peter, above, post #4.

      Oct 12, 2009 at 1:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • McShane
      McShane

      @No. 4 · Peter ; What is the Mormon state? In truth they are spreading all over. My brther told me that they had a higher population percentage in Idaho, 60% than in Utah, There are huge numbers who have moved into California. I just read an article, by a Calfornian about how they had literally taken over the company he works in without anyone knowing. They make a point of being inocuous, but are spreading all over. His thoughts are that they have plans, with that technique of taking over everything possible. So much that they do is secretive.

      As to the topic at hand, I firmly believe that the referendum renders our Republican(representative ) form of government nonfunctional. One of the fears of the Founders was that of mob rule. That is what is happening: Justice George is right.

      Oct 12, 2009 at 1:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • RM
      RM

      It’s pretty easy to blame the Mormons, actually.
      Blaming the Mormons doesn’t let the Yes on 8 voters off the hook.

      But the church, and everyone who chooses to be affiliated with it, is responsible for what happened.

      Oct 12, 2009 at 1:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • rodney
      rodney

      Well. We can agree to disagree. Keep fighting the Mormons though. People like you just make them stronger.

      Oct 12, 2009 at 1:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill
      Bill

      And what do people like YOU do, Rodney?

      Take up space and hog all the oxygen?

      You clearly have ZERO knowledge of that which you speak.

      Please remedy that, THEN make a statement.

      Until then, you are simply another tool who is uneducated in the matter.

      Not that htere’s anything worng with that.

      Idiot.

      Oct 12, 2009 at 2:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • terrwill
      terrwill

      RODNEY: As to my “stupid comments” anyone with an sliver of brain matter saw how the Moron church manipulated their followers to contribute heavily to defeat prop 8. If you took your head out of your anal cavity you would have seen that dozens of the Morons from the Moron church admitted so. And we are not talking the blue-haired ladies putting $5.00 in the wicker basket on a Sunday. Many of these scumbag lemmings contributed $5,000.00 each. Yea our side was taken by suprise. No one figured that these hateful scumbags would part with so many of their personal dollars to enable the disgusting dogma spewing from the hateful minds of the Grand POObahs sitting in their temple in Iowa. And as too making them stronger, many of these scumbags forgot that we too as a Gay community have dollars to spend. And many of us have decided to spend our dollars elsewhere than to enrich these bastards with our dollars any more. The hotel owner who supported prop 8 with thousands of dollars lost a huge multiplyer of that in bookings as a result of information about his contribution being publicized.

      And the most ironic thing about the Moron church being so against OUR marrying. Brigham Young started the church so he could have a means to engage in pologymy, haveing MULTIPLE MARRIAGES. They can marry as many stepford wives as they want, let us be in our wanting to recieve the benefits and rights that straight couples are entitled to…………………..

      Oct 12, 2009 at 3:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JT
      JT

      As a tax attorney, I thought I would just clarify that the Mormon church, like any other religious or nonprofit organization, is well within its statutory rights to speak out on an issue and provide nominal funding. This type of activity is quite common for religious organizations and other non-profits. Under the Internal Revenue Code, they are not in any danger of losing their tax-exempt status with regard to this issue.

      As other prominent members of the LGBT community have mentioned, I’m not sure that blaming the Mormon church and or/its members really helps the cause very much. Caricatures and flippant comments do not help. Certainly, hateful comments on websites, vandalism, and blacklisting do not help.

      What will help is understanding. What makes the “enemy” tick? What is it they really want? Why? (Hint: It’s not “hate” or stupidity.) Try going out and meeting your Mormon, Catholic, or African American neighbors (or whatever other group had a high % of Yes voters) and really seek to understand them. Once you have that, you will be able to then connect with them, find common ground, and may even be able to craft an argument that actually speaks to them.

      Just a thought from a humble Minnesotan interested in the issue. Much respect. Cheers.

      Oct 12, 2009 at 4:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      JT wrote, “As a tax attorney, I thought I would just clarify that the Mormon church, like any other religious or nonprofit organization, is well within its statutory rights to speak out on an issue and provide nominal funding.” … which is why the Mormon church is (was?) being investigated:

      http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/61260.html

      http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles_of_faith/2008/11/mormons_facing_1.html

      http://cbs13.com/local/mormons.prop.8.2.873271.html

      Mostly, it is about not meeting reporting requirements, but who knows what else will come out once the actual numbers are known.

      Oct 12, 2009 at 5:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • terrwill
      terrwill

      JT: Why must we as you state: “Try going out and meeting your Mormon, Catholic, or African American neighbors (or whatever other group had a high % of Yes voters) and really seek to understand them. Once you have that, you will be able to then connect with them, find common ground, and may even be able to craft an argument that actually speaks to them.”

      A Gay couple getting married has ABSOLUTLY NO IMPACT ON THEIR LIVES. Why should we have to reach out as you have stated above? WHY CAN’T THEY MIND THEIR OWN BUSINESS AND LEAVE US TO MARRY AND BE WITH WHO WE WANT????

      Oct 12, 2009 at 5:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • bob
      bob

      people with wrong opinions should not be allowed to vote. their churches should be banned. merely living in California does not mean one should should have a vote in its laws.

      the state should be ruled by progressive, enlightened philospher-kings, who choose their own qualified sucessors, and who can tell us how to live so we will all be happy and content. they will have no need to bother the citizens in making their decisions how to govern us.

      Oct 12, 2009 at 5:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JT
      JT

      B (13) – Admittedly, some of the press botched the reports regarding donation reporting by the Mormon church. The church had submitted an earlier report six months earlier, and then made a final report (prior to the deadline) to update the figures with amounts spent subsequent to the previous reporting date (all of which were “in-kind” donations). There isn’t much of note here. McClatchy’s headline of “Mormons Admit to Larger Role in Prop 8″ is very misleading.

      To my knowledge, the only reason the church was being investigated was because Fred Karger, the leader of Californians Against Hate, filed a complaint, which requires a mandatory investigation. I honestly haven’t heard anything since February when this was initially reported. I suspect nothing has nor will come of it.

      I only mention these because I think this, as well as other attempts to somehow punish the Mormon church and its adherents, is a self-defeating dead-end that will not help move the ball forward.

      Oct 12, 2009 at 5:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JT
      JT

      Terrwill (14) – The reason you would want to understand their view is because they are your opposition, and last time I checked, they won the vote. If you want to win the next one, best sway some voters from the other side (or get more people who didn’t vote). And the only way you are going to do the former is by understanding their view and the reasons for it so that you can make a reasonable attempt to reach them.

      That said, bullying people by attacking them through slurs, vandalism, and blacklisting could potentially help us get to the utopic state Bob describes in 15 ;).

      Oct 12, 2009 at 5:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • naghanenu
      naghanenu

      im sorry but im with Rodney..how does taking religious groups tax exemption help matters?????????? Don’t assume by attacking the church you are changing minds all you are doing is gaining powerful and dangerous enemies… don’t ever ever underestimate the power of religion..

      You dont seem to understand something…has anyone watched…i mean really watched…those antigay marriage ads. Do you people jsut surf queerty and think…awww gee gays are just like us too!! Well you are wrong!

      For every five people you meet 3 are unrelentingly homophobic…i dont mean beat u up homophobic…na thats too nice..i mean vote to bar your rights homophobic. Prop 8 passed thanks to those people. Gays are seen as abnormal perverts that want rights they dont deserve…and there are people that will rather kill you than give it to you…

      Do not underestimate that level of hate

      Oct 12, 2009 at 5:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • kf
      kf

      Obama is bi that is why you gays are getting fed support!

      Oct 12, 2009 at 6:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Legion
      Legion

      Democracy is great until people actually get out and vote against something you believe in, even if the majority believe its wrong. The Mormons supported Prop 8 because they are one of the last bastions of conservative belief systems with the ability to act on their beliefs….and they have the wealth to back up their faith. But they can’t take full responsibility and credit for passing prop 8. There had to be millions that stood together with them to say gay marriage is wrong. It is what it is, get over it. Rogue judges, just like rogue lifestyles are minoriities and can not force their will on the majority, no matter how loud they complain.

      Why haven’t we heard anything from the Karger investigations? Becuase the Mormon Church did nothing wrong. Your attack on their tax status is like a gay chihuahua yipping in the night.

      Oct 12, 2009 at 6:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • richard
      richard

      Let’s try banning religeon…wars would be less likely to happen and people wouldnt know who to use as an excuse to take away people’s rights.

      Oct 12, 2009 at 9:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      JT said:

      Try going out and meeting your Mormon, Catholic, or African American neighbors (or whatever other group had a high % of Yes voters) and really seek to understand them. Once you have that, you will be able to then connect with them, find common ground, and may even be able to craft an argument that actually speaks to them.

      OMG. What a perfectly marvelous idea. Now, why didn’t we do that with Herr Hitler, Emperor Hirohito and His Excellency Mussolini (Il Duce)? What could we have been thinking, I wonder, engaging them in a World War like we did.

      Oh wait. Silly me. The British tried that, didn’t they? Neville Chamberlain “found common ground and crafted an argument that actually spoke” to Herr Hitler.

      It was called the Munich Peace Agreement and was signed on September 29, 1938, and we all know how that turned out, don’t we?

      So much for ass-kissing. It stinks. *pun intended*

      Oct 12, 2009 at 11:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @ No. 16 JT:

      I only mention these because I think this, as well as other attempts to somehow punish the Mormon church and its adherents, is a self-defeating dead-end that will not help move the ball forward.

      Ah. So what you are basically saying then is, it’s ok for the Mormon Church to punish the LBGT community, but it NOT ok for us to seek to punish them in return? You are advocating that we should turn the other cheek…so they can slap that one too!

      And by that same line of thinking, I guess you also feel that a murderer should not go to jail or face execution for taking the life of another person. We should, instead, how did you put it, ah yes…”find common ground and craft an argument that actually speaks to the murderer so that he will never go out and do repeat that sort of horrible behavior again.

      I am surprised that you didn’t also admonish us to “show some respect to the Mormon Church” as well, while you were at it.

      Btw…do you attend Alice in Wonderland tea parties often?

      Oct 12, 2009 at 11:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @ No. 17 JT:

      That said, bullying people by attacking them through slurs, vandalism, and blacklisting could potentially help us get to the utopic state Bob describes in 15 ;)

      And of course, as we all know, the Mormon Church and the RC Church did not of those things. They were as pure as the white, driven show at Christmas.

      And how about the little detail that you seem to be overlooking here, which is, since when in our Democratic Republic, did citizens get the right to exercise mob rule by voting away the rights of minority groups, which was the very thing that the signers of our Constitution feared the most.

      Oct 12, 2009 at 11:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      Typo: …and the RC Church did not do any of those things.

      Oct 12, 2009 at 11:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      Well, as I continue reading here, it is becoming obvious that this thread has been hijacked by Mormon Church and religious shills once again.

      Sadly, that is becoming much too common.

      Oct 12, 2009 at 11:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • LEGION
      LEGION

      “it is becoming obvious that this thread has been hijacked by Mormon Church and religious shills once again.”

      SCHLUKITZ – You idiot. You have been the only one posting here for the last five hours. 5 out of the last 6 posts are YOURS.

      Oct 13, 2009 at 8:29 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • terrwill
      terrwill

      LEGION: Leave my surrogate Grandpa (Schlukitz) alone! I too sometimes view a post and add to it. When you have an open mind and not a narrow bigoted view like some of the posters here your brain is able to do that………………

      Oct 13, 2009 at 10:18 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Rocko
      Rocko

      Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and vote. That is the great thing about being an American! Not all Mormons voted that day, and the Mormons that did vote, didn’t all vote for one side. The votes are kept private. And just because someone thinks two people of the same sex should be able to be married, doesn’t mean that everyone has to follow along like a little puppy dog. People are entitled to their own opinion on the matter. Mormon is a collective term, but every member is entitled to their own opinions and actions. As individuals they are responsible for their own comments. America has something wonderful called Freedom of Religion and speech. Don’t turn this into something that we as Americans will all regret later!

      Oct 20, 2009 at 1:31 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ozymandias
      Ozymandias

      Rocko, opinions are fine… until rights are stripped from Americans by mob-mentality vote. And as for “something that we as Americans will all regret later” – we’ve already seen it. It’s called Proposition 8.

      Ultimately though, it won’t matter. The LGBT community will have equal rights and protections under the law, and the Mormons will simply rewrite history, just like they did when discriminating against the African-American community was no longer popular, and within a generation the Mormon sheeple will just nod their heads and say ‘We’ve always supported the gays!’ And that’s fine by me. :)

      Oct 21, 2009 at 12:25 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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