Queerty has obtained an exclusive firsthand account of the incident that rocked the gay world last week, when two men, Dennis Mayer and John Hart of Palm Springs (right), were arrested on board an Atlantis cruise ship in Dominica under threat of “buggery” charges, which could have carried up to a ten year prison sentence in the Caribbean island nation.
The men were eventually charged only with indecent exposure, to which they pled guilty, and were released after being taunted, scolded, and fined. But the episode has divided the gay community between those outraged at the cruise line for docking in such a gay-unfriendly port, and those outraged at the couple for their foolish behavior, which definitely included public nudity, and may or may not have also included public sex. Beyond the two men themselves, no detailed direct reports of the incident have surfaced. Until now.
Our witness, fellow cruise passenger Juan Claudio, tells it like this:
My boyfriend and I, and a busload of other guys, did see what was happening on the balcony of the Celebrity Summit as we waited for our excursion to depart.
At first, I wasn’t paying attention, until I noticed a few Dominican females near the security gate of the pier where the ship docked, waving their arms and hands towards the ship, and talking loudly about something on the ship. The others on board the bus also looked, and we noticed one, then two guys on the balcony walking around naked. My first thought was, ‘If we can see them, can they see us?’
The ruckus at the dock became more excited when it appeared, at first to me, that they were engaging in oral sex. The two guys in front of me then said, ‘No, they are fucking!’ As I leaned forward in my seat, I noticed that they were fucking, and in a standing position. It was very, very obvious that they were engaged in fucking. We were not that far away from the ship, maybe one half to three quarters the length of a football field. Again, did they know we could see them?
Claudio says some of the girls on the pier then grabbed a port police officer, who hadn’t been looking at the ship up until that point.
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When the girls pointed to the balcony for the police officer to see, he then, himself, noticed the guys fucking. The police officer started to walk towards the ship, as other police officers also started to observe the action on the balcony. The balcony was just above Deck 5, where the lifeboats are stored, and only two or three staterooms from the elevator banks, on the port side of the Celebrity Summit facing the town.
As the police officer walked, then stopped, then walked again toward the ship, the two guys on the balcony were still fucking. By this time, we could see many people on the pier and onshore taking photos of the action taking place on the balcony.
As the police officer was walking towards the ship, many of us were thinking that these two guys would soon be going home. It’s the notion of fucking in plain view of those on the ground that was the shocking thing. It doesn’t have to be a gay thing since straight couples shouldn’t be doing that as well.
Claudio says that at this point, the excursion tour guide, who hadn’t noticed the live show on the ship, boarded the bus and began the excursion into Dominica. By the time they returned, he says the two men were being driven to prison. And the mood on the dock had changed.
After we returned to the pier after the excursion, some of the locals were not as friendly to us as they were before the balcony scene. I got the sense that they didn’t want us there anymore.
On the bright side, Claudio says that the incident “added some flavor to the whole experience” of his holiday with his partner Eugene. “This was our second Atlantis cruise,” he says, “and we intend to do more.”
Another passenger, Hugh Hysell, agreed that the episode didn’t put a damper on things for the 2,000 or so cruisers who moved on from Dominica.
“The mood was gossipy and very light,” says Hysell. “Most everyone found out about it throughout the course of the day, and Rich Campbell addressed the incident in detail at each of shows later that evening. He said that he was working with the guys and an attorney — and, as was later reported by the cruise director, a congresswoman — and that the guys did something really stupid, and would likely be out of jail the next day.”
Houston Bill
I think the real point is why would Atlantis go to anti-Gay countries.
Hey..Atlantis Baltic Cruise passengers. Look at this. The Russian Orthodox Church has just issued the following call for vigilatism and “combat” against peaceful Gay rights protesters….
http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=9195
Sounds like a great choice to go to Russia this year..Atlantis. The Church is now blessing ‘combat’ against Gay persons. And endorsing vigilantism.
The Canadian Foreign Ministry has issued a public warning to Gay travellers to St Petersburg. The US, the EU, and the UK have condemned the authorities in St Petersburg.
And here is a video showing the Gay community in St Petersburg asking Gay tourists to stay away….
http://www.allout.org/en/stpetersburg-dont-go
Sweet video. Too bad Atlantis could apparently care less.
Spike
Well now, I wonder how all the apologist from previous posting on topic (you know who you are) are going to spin this away from these two idiots, one of which a former cop, doing something very stupid and being held accountable for their behavior no different then had they fucked on a hotel balcony here in the US, or on a ship docked in the US for that matter. They are damn lucky they were only charged with indecent exposure. Any port that has ‘gay’ issues (Egypt, Russia), passengers on Atlantis are repeatedly reminded before disembarking to be respectful of the culture and be smart. Clearly these guys knew about Dominica’s buggery laws and were not fucking on their balcony by accident, no doubt they wanted to come back and tell all their friends what they did in plain sight while docked in port. Turns out they have returned with a very different story to tell.
Houston Bill
I was not warned that it was illegal to be gay in St Lucia before we docked there last year on the Atlantis Cruise. While not defending these guys, I challenge anyone to produce any evidence that Atlantis warned anyone that Dominica criminalizes Gay persons.
Spike
@Houston Bill: So what you are suggesting is that Atlantis should discontinue its cruises that originate and conclude in the US as I’m sure the US appears no less anti-gay (Catholic Church, Mormon Church, Evangelicals, Republican Party, etc.) to someone outside of the US.
St. Petersburg is an amazing city to visit – Catherine’s Palace is not be be missed in particular, if you are capable of visiting without engaging in sex acts in a public, I highly suggest it, oh yea, and the Russians, are way more interested in our US dollars then they are in our sexual preference.
Christopher
@Spike: I am glad to see that you were able to analyze these guys and you now know their motivations and that they did it intentionally, as something to tell their friends.
I don’t think there were as many apologists as there were people who were surprised at the amount of venom spewed at these two by posters like you. You even went as far as to tell us what their motives were, and that it was done intentionally, when you actually have no way to know what was going on in their minds.
The more reliable stories from the beginning said that they could be seen through their windows having sex and then partially clothed on the balcony. And none of that is the point. Anyone who believes a straight couple on their honeymoon would have been put in jail overnight and threatened with buggery laws, is naive at best. We all know that a straight couple would have been warned.
The more important point people were making is that Atlantis shouldn’t be docking in counties with buggery laws. It is one thing to plan your own trip and research your destinations as a tourist. It is an entirely different thing to take a gay party cruise, where you are much more likely to except the destinations to be gay friendly.
Sam
I believe Houston was talking about legally anti gay , not just bigotry. The US does not have anti sodomy laws so gay sex is not illegal. It’s illegal in Dominca with a penalty of 10 years. Someone on another blog posted the exact law on the books.
Christopher
@Christopher: *expect
Eric
I was on an excursion with over 40 other guests on two buses. We had a great time, met locals and saw the beautiful nature and waterfalls on the island. We left around 9am and didn’t return until 1pm. My partner and I decide to eat lunch near the port. We were greeted with friends and laughed, drank and relaxed among the locals.
When we returned to the ship we had learned what happened. We didn’t see what happened but our two new friends from Alabama were the two in question’s direct neighbors and they heard and saw them having very loud sex on their balcony for over 30 minutes. They said they would stop for a couple of minutes, go back in their stateroom, then come back out completely naked again and keep having loud sex on the balcony. They neighbors called to Celebrity customer service to also report the noise.
There is photos and video of this they said and I cannot wait till the truth comes out on how they were inappropriate and now liars. It was an incredible trip now ruined by two people who are hiding behind gay bullying to save some face. Those are the simple facts.
pedro
The guy in light blue is my dad’s age…How fucking pathetic!
Bob Althon
Should we as gays and lesbians stop traveling because a place MIGHT be dangerous? Time to grow up kids, the world is a dangerous place. Gays are hated throughout the world.
Are we really infighting because two guys decided to F**K ON A BALCONY IN FULL VIEW OF THE PUBLIC. How many times does that have to be said?? Why are people defending them?
It sounds like insecurity with your own sexuality and your own uncomfortable feelings that the world isn’t all warm and fuzzy waiting for you to go and spend your gay dollars..
Guess what, the world doesn’t like you, you still can’t get employee rights in most US states let alone marry…
So yeah.. that makes sense, lets caniballize the one gay travel company because you’re scared of what ifs.. Let’s stop traveling and just stay home and move the gay rights movement back in the closet.
Sounds to me like everyone just wants to be a second class citizen.
Get the f**k over it. Stop destroying each other and our community, our businesses and our culture.
Kirk
I kind of just threw up in my mouth at the thought of these two doing it.
Mark
Oh! But here in San Francisco you could sail into the Bay and fuck undisturbed! You backwards idiot hillbillies who live in shitholes!
/
Bruce
For those of you who don’t think sodomy is illegal in the United States, it still is in 18 states, with penalties ranging from misdemeanor to felony, jail time ranging from 6 months to 20 years, and fines ranging from $500 to $50,000!
http://cloudfront.equalitymatters.org/static/images/eqm-20110808-sodomy.jpg
http://equalitymatters.org/blog/201108080012
J Ascher
Regardless of whether or not Atlantis cruises should go to homophobic countries, the passengers have the responsibility to behave appropriately for the country or territory they’re visiting.
There’s no use in being an Ugly American.
In any case, it’s very difficult to go on a cruise to solely gay-friendly countries – maybe a cruise to Norway, Sweden, Finland, Germany and Denmark or a trip to northern Mediterranean countries. Aside from a Canada cruise, the homophobic countries in the vicinity of the US outnumber the friendly ones by a wide margin. Even Mexico, which seems gay friendly, is mainly that way only in tourist areas but even that’s no guarantee.
Fitz
Did one Atlantis trip 15 or 16 years ago. It was a pathetic cluster of
doped out failed party boys. Thankfully I was with my husband, and we made
some friends with a few of the other normals. But the STAFF were as bad as anyone, and
it was like giant OD and seroconverting party for the sorta pretty. We even had to help one kid. yuck…. I love messing around too, but this wasn’t the fun adventurous kind, it was the sad past-it’s-shelf-date kind.
pedro
@Bruce: Do you not understand that the Supreme Court ruling supercedes all those shitty laws…It doesn’t matter if these laws are on the books…The ruling in Lawrence vs. Texas makes them unenforceable. If they tried to enforce those laws, they would be overturned in the courts…The highest court in the land spoke, and everyone has to listen.
D Muir
Having experienced one Atlantis cruise I find it hypocritical that Rich Campbell, president of Atlantis Events stated, “Two of our guests were seen engaging in a sexual act outdoors on their balcony in full public view of the port and town” when, in fact, Atlantis offers a “dick deck” where both oral and “buggery” sex acts are performed by random strangers in full view of any passenger who accidentally takes an evening stroll on the wrong deck of the ship. Moreover, shipboard complaints by Atlantic guests who object to the aforementioned “buggery” and public indecency are ignored and dismissed. Rich Campbell and Atlantis Events bear more than just some of the responsibility here. Indeed, Rich may try to blow-off (no pun intended) responsibility in shifting the blame to the passengers but it is Atlantis that creates the highly sexualized atmosphere by allocating entire decks for “buggery” and therefore encouraging and essentially promoting the aforementioned behavior. Atlantis Events explicitly sexual gay cruises (and you kid yourself to think of them as anything less than a huge circuit party on the high seas) recently include a huge drug-bust, “buggery” charges and the resulting indecent exposure convictions (that Rich equates to a “Ticket”), and even a suicide. These are all the result of a business model that puts the all-mighty dollar ahead of the welfare of ALL cruise passengers. There are standards of decency for everyone, gay or straight… unless you travel with Atlantis, that is.
Will L
You know, it sounded like the place wasn’t all that gay unfriendly before this happened. Having public sex is vulgar ANYWHERE. They would probably have been kicked out of a gay bar for doing the same thing, don’t you think? I don’t think it SHOULD be tolerated. It’s jack asses like this that give everyone a bad name.
i was on the cruise
@Houston Bill:
I’ll accept that challenge. I was on the St Lucia cruise, and we were made aware of the local laws. I was also on last week’s cruise. And, the night before Dominica, before each show, Malcolm, the cruise director, very explicitly told people to TAKE THE EXCURSIONS, three times!!
The real issue here is why are some so hell bent on trying to blame Atlantis for the gross stupidity of two idiots. What they did had nothing to do with being gay, or Dominica’s anti-gay laws. They had sex in plain view of the locals, to include CHILDREN. What part of stupid do you not understand?
i was on the cruise
@Christopher:
You said: The more reliable stories from the beginning said that they could be seen through their windows having sex and then partially clothed on the balcony.
And that is BS. They weren’t the more “reliable” stories. That story was made up out of whole cloth by someone who wasn’t even on the cruise. You chose to ignore accounts from passengers who WERE on the cruise in favor of that bogus story because it was your preferred narrative.
i was on the cruise
@pedro:
Eric, you’re absolutely right. After those two guys were deported, they went straight to the press with their “We were arrested for being gay” story. I don’t fault them whatsoever for lying. They sort of have to. The denied the charge in court, so they perjured themselves. The US has an extradition treaty with Dominica. If evidence comes to light (photos, first person accounts, etc., that they were indeed fucking on their balcony and that they subsequently lied in court, they could be extradited back to Dominica if Dominica chose to pursue it. My hunch is Dominica won’t and is glad to be rid of them. What they did on their balcony was stupid and going to the press with their bullshit story was just as stupid,
MEJ
Why are you all wasting your money traveling to anti-gay, backwards islands? Come to Canada, we have everything you want–and a lot of things you wish you had.
Spike
@i was on the cruise: And I was on the Med. cruise that stopped in Egypt and we were told specifically what not to wear and what not to do, by Malcolm. No issues in port. I was also on the Baltic where we were told, by Malcolm, to be mindful that we were in Russia. No issues in Port. Curious that Bill is the defender of two guys fucking on the balcony, who clearly wanted to punk Dominica by fucking on the balcony while in port. Curious, no issues with the rest of the passenger who were on shore excursions, just the two idiots fucking on the balcony of their stateroom.
Give it 4 months, these two clowns will be moving outta Palm Springs, those queens are conservative and its a small town, no one will want them showing up at their pool parties.
Spike
@Christopher: Nice spin, referencing str8t couples on honeymoon, reference my first post, you have confirmed my post. Spin, spin, spin. St8t couples, really? Seriously?
Last I checked, if you visit a country as a tourist that has laws against two guys fucking, and you don’t fuck while there, you are not in violation of the law. If you go there and fuck, then you are either making a political statement or just stupid. So yes, I am analyzing these two guys and have correctly identified their motivations and that they did it intentionally. Any more questions?
Kev C
I’m so glad the government of Dominica used their entire national defense force to stop this unlawful buggery. Starsky and Hutch High Five!
Timmmeeeyyy
@Kev C:
Dominica did the same thing countless other American cities have done involving public nudity and sex. You can search Queerty for “cruising” and find quite a few stories of men being busted in America for nudity/public sex. You can search google and find even more stories.
In fact, there was a recent bust in these guys’ home town of Palm Springs. As an ex-cop, surely at least one of them should know better.
http://www.queerty.com/11-warm-sands-public-sex-cruisers-take-plea-deals-to-avoid-sex-offender-registry-20110316/
Houston Bill
@Spike: Spike, I am from Alabama. I spent years in rural areas of Mississippi and Alabama. I knew (not well) Scotty Weaver, a Gay man who was lynched 45 miles outside of my hometown for being Gay. I’ve also been to Russia and have lived in Europe. I’m perfectly aware of the distinction between anti-Gay behavior in Alabama and in Russia. And the danger level involved in both places. Please go to the first post in the thread and click on both of the links and get back to me.
Please let me know if you’d like to discuss being openly Gay in Alabama or in Mississippi. And if you’d like to speak with some refugees from Russian anti-Gay violence and repression living in Western Europe. They can clue you in.
Houston Bill
@Spike: Malcolm didn’t tell me squat in St Lucia.
Houston Bill
@i was on the cruise: I’m not defending the two guys. I’m excoriating Atlantis for putting their clients at risk for going to Russia. And for showing a staggering lack of concern for the wishes of the local Gay community. And I repeat my challenge….Did anyone at Atlantis ever tell you that it is illegal to be Gay in St Lucia this year? Or in Barbados, Grenada, and Dominica this year? Not..there are some issues there so please take the excursions only…Not some countries are anti-Gay..but “in this country it is illegal to be Gay”.
Granted, I’ve never been with Atlantis to Russia or Egypt (and never will go there with them – I’m done with them) because of their staggering lack of concern for the plight of the LGBT communities in the nations they visit and hideously irresponsible practice of throwing tons of Gay dollars at hideous anti-Gay regimes.
Sam
@Timmmeeeyyy: I think arrests like these were what the other poster Bruce was talking about when he mentioned there are still 18 states with anti sodomy laws & uses loop holes to arrest these men for doing what any straight couple can do. An undercover cop solicited them for sex. So they got arrested for saying yes to consensual sex. See http://equalitymatters.org/blog/201108080012
Kev C
@Timmmeeeyyy: That’s true, but it’s still an over-reaction when applied to gays. I think we’ve all seen straight people getting it on in public. In parks and parked cars, around clubs and bars, on beaches, etc – same as gays do. If you come across it, 9 times out of 10 it’s a straight couple screwing. And yet, it’s not a big issue. Undercover police forces aren’t trying to stop it. Neighbors and parents aren’t complaining about it. Crowds don’t gather to witness freakish crimes against nature. It doesn’t happen.
mk_ultra_again
Atlantis’ PR working over time here.
Houston Bill
@J Ascher: No. Its the responsibility (perhaps not legally, but certainly ethically) if one is selling a ‘Gay experience’ cruise, to clue their passengers in as to the laws in those nations. Especially one that is supposedly a proud part of the LGBT community.
I’ve been to four Atlantis Events (I’m going again) and we all know that there is always a sizeable percentage of really dumb, perhaps even drug addled, patrons that don’t even know what country they are in, much less what the implications of national sodomy criminalization laws. Some of the passengers are responsible enough to do the research. But I seriously doubt that many on those cruises are going to bother with their own research.
And I’m not talking about dumb asses who have sex on a balcony in Dominica. I’m talking about the potential for people getting arrested or worse, simply for wearing a “Legalize Gay” T-shirt or wearing rainbow colored clothing as could happen in Russia this year.
The law in Russia has changed since last year. And the situation on the ground is deterioriating rapidly. Its so dangerous that the Canadian Foreign Ministry has issued an official travel warning specifically regarding Gay travellers to St Petersburg. The US State Department has condemned the new law. And the Russian LGBT community has asked us to stay away! In spite of all of this, Atlantis is gonna plow straight ahead. They had better be right about it being safe for LGBT tourists to go there. I fear for the passengers. Today, the Russian Orthodox Church started blessing vigalantism against “Gay Promotion” (which in the Russian context means even holding a Gay Pride flag).
I’m appalled at the behavior of Atlantis. Not because of what happend in Dominica. But because they went there in the first place.
Houston Bill
Oops I meant (I’m not going again)
Spike
@Houston Bill: That’s you were in the steam room at the time.
i was on the cruise
@Houston Bill:
Hey, you challenged anyone who was on the cruise to demonstrate that Atlantis had warned people about Dominica. I told you they did and they did it very clearly. I’m not sure why some of you have such an axe to grind with Atlantis while ignoring the damage these two idiots have done to the whole gay community. They’ve really set us back. Imagine how this has affected gay people in Dominica? They were left to clean up the mess and cope with the residual angst and anger from the whole event. No sympathy for them though!
On the same cruise you were on last year, Curacao was also on the itinerary. We were told we had to wear shirts walking around town. All of us did, except 3 idiots who decided to be defiant. They got cited by the local police and they then screamed gay discrimination. Ya, Curacao is soooo anti-gay. In fact, they’re so anti-gay that when the ship was leaving that evening, they gave us a send-off with a huge fireworks display.
Frankly, I have little patience for people like you who can’t discern when something is clearly wrong. I’ll stand on the side of saying that having sex for 30 minutes, 75 yards from a huge crowd of people, to include CHILDREN, is WRONG.
Sam
A year ago in Atlantis Cruise news–drug bust : http://www.queerty.com/is-this-the-on-board-drug-dealer-to-atlantis-biggest-ever-gay-cruise-20110213/
Last Month: man overboard/suicide : http://www.queerty.com/breaking-passenger-falls-overboard-on-atlantis-gay-cruise-20120203/
This month: Couple arrests for as one of the guys said in one of their many interviews or on the Atlantis facebook: for doing what even the CEO of Atlantis was doing. Maybe there’s a video of that one too.
They may need some good PR.
Sam
RE PR: I was talking about Atlantis
i was on the cruise
@Sam:
Your point???? I’ve been on 15 cruises, 13 straight / 2 gay.
On one straight cruise, 4 people arrested trying to reboard the ship in Jamaica with a shopping bag full of pot.
On another straight cruise, a woman found dead with her head smashed in.
On another straight cruise, 8 frat boys ejected from the ship in Trinidad for sexual harassment of a crew member.
It happens.
And, I know you really want to believe the two idiots were arrested simply for being gay. That fits your preferred narrative. But the truth of many of the passengers, the crew, the locals at the end of the pier, is that they were having sex for an extended period of time in plain sight on their balcony. Wrap your head around that.
Houston Bill
@Bob Althon: Bob, Thanks for ignoring the concerns of LGBT communities in Russia and elsewhere. But then again, you’re probably a well off Gay man from a Western country (as am I) so the laws aren’t enforced against you. Big difference – I actually give a sh*t about the impact of our dollars and how other nations treat their own LGBT community. Fun fact: Grenada (an Atlantis stop before the went to Dominica) just jailed two local LGBT men for the ‘crime’ of consensual sex in private between two unrelated adults.
The Russian LGBT community has asked you to stay the f*ck away. They don’t want you to go there http://www.allout.org/en/stpetersburg-dont-go . The Canadian government has warned its’ Gay citizens about travelling to Russia. The US State Department has condemned Russia. They did say that they are monitoring the situtation.
Thats not ‘community’. Unless its the circuit community.
I get it. Boycotts usually fail. But I’m not going to fill my car up with Exxon Gas, before I lunch at Chick-Fil-A before I hand Rich Campbell a fistfull of dollars to hand to the government in Russia, Dominica, Grenada, Barbados, and St Lucia. Because the impact of all of those decisions are one and the same. Feeding dollars to people who treat Gays poorly.
Houston Bill
@Spike: LOL. Yea, yea, yea.. And you were buying from Krumholtz at the time…or his replacement.
i was on the cruise
@Wilmer:
Some refuse to accept the reality that they were fucking in plain sight. The ship was docked in the MIDDLE of Rosseau, the capital city. The half wall of the balcony is clear glass. They were not 50 yards from hundreds of people. Passengers saw them, crew members saw them, locals including children saw them. And it wasn’t just for a a minute or two. They were out there quite awhile doing their thing.
Sam
I have no preferred narrative about these guys, not yet anyways. If I come up with one, I’ll be sure to write about it. In the meantime, you can see my posts were about Atlantis & their string of bad luck that some of the posters under those stories, have said is somewhat self inflicted.
Houston Bill
Spike/I was on the cruise. Look you guys just don’t get it. There are actually people who think that countries that JAIL their own LGBT citizens for being Gay are not worthy of support from the Gay community. Atlantis agrees with you. I disagree.
And there’s a difference between saying “there’s been a few problems so please take the excursions if you go ashore” and….”its illegal to be gay here”
Wilmer, I’m not defending the two arrestees. I’m asking what the blank Atlantis is doing when they go there in the first place. “Hey Russia…have a hundred thousand in port fees and tourism dollars”…is not an appropriate response from my community. Perhaps in the circuit community, one might think different.
i was on the cruise
@Houston Bill:
The “circuit community”? You show your ass when you try to disparage all of us who are Atlantis patrons. I’m far from a circuity party queen. In fact, I don’t like them. And, I don’t see Atlantis cruises as “circuit parties”. My partner and I have a great time on their cruises. We don’t drink, do drugs, or do sex parties. I understand your point of view. Feel free to boycott Atlantis. However, I have a different point of view. When we are on those cruises, we are changing minds, showing people who wouldn’t otherwise even know a gay person, what gay people are really like. Think about the 1000 crew members who come from every third world country on the planet. They go home and tell stories about how gay people really aren’t monsters and are worthy of respect. Because I have a different opinion than you, does not make me part of the “circuit crowd”.
Scott
@MEJ: ….. except for palm trees and balmy weather…. though I do love Canada!
JT
@Scott: or hot men or culture….
jj
Its funny cause when i saw the photos i new that they were from palm springs before i even read it!
Appalled
None of you live in Dominica so don’t assume that because straight public sex goes unpunished in your country that it does in Dominica too
2ndly the purpose of arrest has nothing to do with gay or straight but for breaking the law
3rdly gays do not have more rights than straight folk .. if its wrong for straight its wrong for gay (well at least in Dominica)
4thly If a Dominican comes to America or anywhere else he/she has to observe and respect the laws …. same way people coming here should respect the law
Dominica is a lovely country full of nature and beauty unparalleled to any other Caribbean country and any country in the world even. The people have been named as some of the happiest and nicest in the world BUT law is law whether it is agreed to or not it is law so I think the country and its people should be respected. Quite frankly I’m a bit sick of the gay community flaunting their gayness in the faces of everyone as if we owe them something. WE DON’T! All we owe which is what we owe to all humans alike is respect!
Jean
Try a Hawaiian cruise, either around the islands, or from Los Angeles.
B
No. 2 · Spike wrote, “Well now, I wonder how all the apologist from previous posting on topic (you know who you are) are going to spin this away from these two idiots.”
What “appologists”? There were conflicting reports. Some claimed these two had sex. Other reports were that they were simply standing on a balcony naked.
I checked my first comment on it and it basically said there was something wrong or missing about the story – with no picture of the ship, it wasn’t clear how you would
tell that two guys on a balcony were naked when viewed from a distance close enough to not need binoculars. Once a link and picture were found, it turned out that the balcony was transparent. With the reports as to what they did changing, it isn’t surprising that people would comment based on the assumption of the day.
If just naked and fully visible, they should either have been ignored (as they would be in San Francisco) or given a nominal fine – basically a parking ticket – if nudity was illegal there. If having sex in plain view of people in public spaces, then they should be arrested. Heard of one case of this happening in the Castro – two guys decided to go at in kind of a small plaza near ATM machines for the bank on the corner of 18th and Castro and got arrested by the police. I’d imagine they were drunk, but there was no community outrage at the arrest. There were a few comments afterwards given how unusual it was, mostly along the lines of “two guys were going at it over there last night and ended up getting arrested.” “They what? Why didn’t they walk over to Eros [the local “safe” sex club]? It’s only a 10 to 15 minute walk, and at least they wouldn’t have been arrested.”
B
No. 53 · Kev C wrote, “@Appalled: Buggery? Try living in the 21rst century …” Hint – Dominica was formerly a British colony, now part of the Commonwealth of Nations (which consists mostly of former British colonies). In British English, “buggery” is still in use. Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buggery :
‘Etymology
‘The word bugger and buggery are still commonly used in modern English as a mild exclamation, and “buggery” is also synonymous with anal sex.
‘The word “bugger” was derived, via the French “bougre”, from “Bulgar”, that is, “Bulgarian”, meaning the medieval Bulgarian heretical sect of the Bogomils, which spread into Western Europe and was claimed by the established church to be devoted to the practice of sodomy.’
So, in a sense you can blame the Pope (rather, his predecessors) for the word.
And here is a relatively recent usage (even if the story was made up) –
http://foxylibrarians.blogspot.com/2006_11_01_archive.html ”
‘This is rather apocryphal, but I love it. Here Churchill is responding to accusations that he has not given the Royal Navy its due.
‘Addressing the Sea Lords: “You say that I am ignoring the time-honored traditions of the Royal Navy? And what might they be? I shall tell you in three words: rum, buggery, and the lash! Good morning, sirs.”
‘If I ever get a boat, I am so naming it “Rum, Buggery and the Lash.”‘
Kev C
Buggery is an antique british law. Buggery and Sodomy are the same crime, and can include a variety of acts performed by straight or gay men. Yet both terms are derived from anti-gay history and most often applied to homosexuals. Dominica is a homophobic country with antique laws and backwards people.
B
No. 53 · Kev C wrote, “Buggery is an antique british law.” Not true. Buggery refers to a specific sexual activity, which in the past was illegal under British law, alleged naval practices notwithstanding. Today the term “buggery” can be used in British English as a one-word replacement for “anal sex”.
evt
with all that evidence in your face you are still in denial.. you are surreal
Auntie Mame
Self respecting gay people don’t take gay cruises.
Just being real
Agreed Houston Bill, well said.
Auntie Mame
@i was on the cruise: Those gay cruises don’t change anybody’s mind. They only confirm that those things are floating sex clubs.
Kev C
@B: It was first used in british common law and was any unnatural sex act, open to interpretation, later becoming anal sex and beastiality only. The punishment was hanging or life imprisonment. Britain abolished the law while many Caribbean commonwealth countries kept the law. It makes gay sex a crime, which is to say, it makes gays criminals.
Lily
@Christopher: you said that “We all know that a straight couple would have been warned.” I think you are referring to the US and not the Caribbean with a different culture. Countries like Dominica do not entertain public displays of affection like what these guys were doing – having sex in public. Heterosexual or gay it does not matter, and to say that public heterosexual sex is not condemned in the US is not entirely true, here are a few examples of persons arrested for engaging in heterosexual sexual relations in public. So stop making this a gay thing and dictating what Dominica would/should do when the US prosecutes its own for hetero sex in public.
Here are the links with the stories (just a few, in the second case she was also charged with adultery): http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2071195/Elementary-school-teachers-caught-having-sex-stadium-restroom-Buffalo-Bills-game.html
another link:
http://www.buffalonews.com/city/article54474.ece
Christopher Banks
Doesn’t change the central question about whether gay cruises should travel to places where being gay is illegal. These guys – allegedly – crossed the line, severely. But who’s to say an unwitting couple being affectionate or kissing in public might have been bashed or killed? What then?
Joseph
@pedro: @pedro: Pedro, one day if you are lucky you too will be your father’s age. Stop being an agist little prick.
Randy
Just for the record, the Atlantis cruises are NOT gay floating bath houses. This was my 6th and it is anything but what people are thinking and saying!
Mike in Asheville
@pedro: So I guess when you age another 20 years or so, you will already know just how pathetic you are.
Sly
All I can say is that we all have to behave accordingly as civilians inside and outside your country. Don’t blame it on being a gay cruise that promotes public sex, on the organizers for not having the right message or taking the right action, on the host country, on human rights… you are responsible for your own action. And if you think that those cruises are the devil’s home.. well.. don’t go!.. let them be responsible for their own action.
Spike
@B: “If just naked and fully visible, they should either have been ignored (as they would be in San Francisco) or given a nominal fine – basically a parking ticket”
Oh really? Do you understand when going on such a cruise you are visiting countries outside the US? Foreign countries? Countries that have their own set of laws? Oh, and there are A LOT of countries out there besides the US. Seriously, that is your response, they should have been ignored as they would have in SF or given a nominal fine? And you wonder why US tourists have such a bad reputation.
Oh and btw, the so called conflicting reports, no there were, there were apologist like you who were making up the facts and screaming gay discrimination contrary to the original reports.
Neal
Image if you will “Identical scene” … ship docked at the Port of any U.S. city.
A. Passengers using poor judgement?
B. Blame local laws on indecent exposure … (disregarding buggery, etc.)
Lest we forget this was a public dock. Children could have been present.
dominican
@MEJ: @MEJ:
shut your face im from dominica and this place is not backward have u been that to see that natural greenry waterfalls rivers beaches and other natural sights???u dumb fuck!!!…dont u ever put down my country like that
Dorian
Lawrence v. Texas struck down sodomy laws as applied to consensual gay sex between adults. The charge still exists on the books in several states and is usually tacked on to other things. If you are propositioned for sex with another adult with no money changing hands and then arrested by them, then the charge would be thrown out when it went to court under obvious entrapment grounds, if your lawyer remembered anything from law school sodomy wouldn’t even enter into the discussion even though it would not be held against you. Even though gay sex is legal in the United States, in most places you can not have sex in public. Call me crazy, but I’m fine with that.
Curios
@MEJ:
Can people hav sex in plain view of the public in Canada?
lotusmoon
i was on the cruise – i can’t believe you just used the phrase, “not to mention the CHILDREN!” snorted my cereal milk there, thanks for that.
happy
@Bob Althon: as you heard from many who where on this ship that they had a great time in Dominica. the two guys who choose to have sex infront of the whole town adults an children likewise was wrong. sure they couldnt do that in the state of california
flyguybos
@Sam: stupidity is not a defense, to write judge judy. Do your homework before traveling or of the us.three works is bigger than the us.
Brady
I was on the cruise, and I’m anything but a circuit boy. And, this cruise was anything but a floating bath house. Sure there are some people on the boat that treat it like that, but that’s certainly not what the cruise was about. It’s unfortunate some of you are so willing to demean something you haven’t experienced yourself. My experience on the ship was one of the most freeing of my life. I’d do it again in a heartbeat, and I didn’t have any sex (other than with my husband, in our room) while on board.
C.B
dominica is not discriminating gays. some of you are talking through your arses honestly…..dominica is against any form of sexual activities in the public…there are many gay men in dominica .they never have nor ever had any problem with the law because they have sex in private or rather behind close doors.do you all who supports sex activities have sex in the public where people children or your own children,strangers friends and family can see? i do not think so . they are even quite lucky because if they were saudi arabia they would be dead by now…..do not forget that i have gay friends and i will never accpet they to have sex in my presence.
linc52
@pedro: why is it pathetic im a 52 year old gay man who still loves having sex im not over the hill yet good luck to them
Sam
@flyguybos: HUh? What are you talking about? . Not sure how I got into this conversation since I haven’t written anything defending the guys. Also with the typos I don’t even understand the last sentence.
DcA
It isn’t illegal to be gay in Dominica. If it was so the openly gay islanders would be arrested. It is illegal to engage in anal sex, be it straight couples or gay couples and the law has primarily been used in rape cases. No matter how you spin it the guys were wrong and behaved in a disrespectful manner. Not because of their orientation, but their lack of decency and not confining sexual acts away from the public eye like any decent human being would. From the moment I heard about the incident I already predicted how far out of proportion things will be blown and predicted it would be spun as the guys being arrested because they were gay.
@ Dominica being a backwards place. What makes it so? Because it has kept a buggery law on the books? What about some of the asinine law within some of the us states?
Anthony Luke
Dominica does not discriminate gays, anyone behaving in like manner would have been arrested, gay or straight. Indecent exposure is against the law in all countries of the world much less to go as far as f***** in public.
Houston Bill
@Anthony Luke: How many times do we have to go through with it. The Law in Dominica criminalizes being Gay….
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Dominica
You are free to opine about the reality for LGBT Persons in Dominica,but please don’t pretend that it is legal to be Gay in Dominica.
the crustybastard
FTFA “But the episode has divided the gay community between those outraged at the cruise line for docking in such a gay-unfriendly port, and those outraged at the couple for their foolish behavior, which definitely included public nudity, and may or may not have also included public sex.”
That’s ridiculous.
I loathe exhibitionists because they deliberately impose sex on third-parties without their consent. It demonstrates objectively poor judgment, it’s vile in every case, and I think what the couple did was inexcusable.
Likewise, I loathe Dominica for prosecuting a gay couple for something the country has never prosecuted a straight couple for doing — and it cannot seriously be maintained that no straight couple has ever had sex on a cabin balcony in that port. Moreover, Dominica turned the episode into a homophobic shaming circus, meaning their law enforcement and magistrate’s behavior is scarcely more dignified or respectable that the exhibitionists. The motivation for prosecuting them was not merely that they had sex in public — it was that they had GAY sex in public. That means they were ACTUALLY prosecuted for being gay. That’s unacceptable.
Also, I loathe Atlantis cruises for delivering a ship full of gay people to a country that would selectively criminally prosecute gays WHO DIDN’T EVEN LEAVE THE SHIP. Maybe next time an overzealous prosecutor or cop in homophobic destination country will choose to arrest gays on flimsier evidence, or merely on the basis of gay identity? That would hardly be unprecedented.
For this reason, a gay cruise should never deliver gay people to homophobic jurisdictions where gay people’s rights, safety, due process and human dignity are not guaranteed. Period.
There are plenty of other very nice places to go, and as a matter of principle, we shouldn’t be giving our money to homophobes anyway.
Vanessa
@ Huston Bill
It is NOT illegal to be gay in Dominica – that’s the misconception. If it were, then many openly gay people would be arrested and jailed.
What it is illegal to do, according to your Wiki link, is “Both male and female same-sex sexual activity…According to Article 14 of the Sexual Offences Act from 1998, anyone caught perpetrating an act of gross indecency can be punished with imprisonment of up to 5 years. Article 15 punishes anal sex (regardless of whether with men or women) with a prison sentence of up to 10 years, or in some cases can lead to internment in a mental asylum. Article 16 states the punishment for attempted anal sex is imprisonment of up to 4 years.”
Everything relates to the sexual act itself.
If one were to argure that simply being GAY is illegal in Dominica then that would beg the question why are the openely gay persons walking around the island?
If one is supposedly “born gay” then that would be an issue is being gay is illegal.
It’s one thing to have sex with a same sex person in private, it’s totally another to have it in public – that is ILLEGAL – TO BE CAUGHT HAVING SEX WITH THE SAME SEX PERSON.
I personally do not agree with that – too each his own, and so to, do many other Dominicans do nto agree. Although we are not accepting of the gay lifestyle, we tolerate it and we live with it. We do not go around harming gay persons, enslaving them or doing them any injustic. There is no persecution from being gay in Dominica.
If such were the case, then the 2000 = other passengers should have been arrested and then the contribution to our economy which so many of you talk about would have been better worth it.
the culprits were wrong and because of that, they have soured many a Caribbean Islands’ view about gay people…..
their actions I’m sure created more angst than any action a local could have taken.
Gays should respect straight people just as they expect to be respected.
da to the bone
@dominican:
Hey Don’t entertain this ridiculous excuse for a human being. I am from Dominica now a
US citizen who like countless of my relatives and friends are proud members of the Armed Forces.. Possess Doctoral degrees. I commend the people who, irrespective of sexual preference have seen this act for what it is. Breaking the law. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT THEY WERE GAY! Learn to respect another country’s sovereignty…
Kev C
@DcA: “Dominica being a backwards place. What makes it so?”
Buggery laws, unprofessional government and law enforcement, public hostility towards gays. Dominica should be avoided by gay tourists as well as gay-friendly straight tourists. Domimica is not gay friendly.
cdubois
It’s not pathetic that he is old and having sex. It’s pathetic that he thinks its okay to be representing the US as a gay man and behaving like a jackass in a foreign country then lying about it. I doubt Pedro was saying sex at an older age is wrong, I believe he is saying someone at that age has no excuse and should know better. I’m in my 20’s and would NEVER dream of behaving in such a matter in the US let alone in a different county. It is the epitome of pathetic in my opinion…
Kev C
Jason Russell, a straight christian man (allegedly) was never arrested for public nudity, masturbation and vandalism. He was detained but not arrested. Public condemnation of this gay couple seems hypocritical to me.
Sam
Not even excusing this but it’s hard to say what motivates someone–is it drugs/alcohol or just plain old exhibitionism. According to some of their interview, they’ve been together for 17 years. Maybe they were trying to spice up their relationship. I mean I read an entire blog of straight cruisers where one man was considering having sex with his wife on their balcony during their anniversary cruise. People were giving them advice (mostly no & ewww). I’m pretty sure sex on balcony has been done before–these guys just happen to get caught.
Here’s a story last year of a straight couple having public sex in Australia with by the way, no arrests. http://www.news.com.au/national/city-stops-for-free-naked-balcony-sex-show-at-darwins-la-grande-apartments/story-e6frfkvr-1226151011351
Sam
You’ll notice one of the comments after that Australian news story was if it was two men they’d have been arrested.
Merlyn
@Houston Bill:
Wow. If I had’t already left Russian Orthodoxy, this would be enough to do it. I am sad to say, you are going to see gay blood shed in the name of a Christian sect. Very sad. Goddess bless the poor GLBT souls in Russia who have to live under such oppression.
dominican
all countries / islands have their laws and rules.We do not have any thing against gay men or women, god knows we have our fair share,however you have to respect the laws of a mans country.public nudity is againts the law plain and simple,having sex in public is againts the law,driving without a seat belt is againts the law,talking on your phone while driving is against the law,etc etc if they were fucking in the privacy of their staterooms their 2400 would still be sitting in their bank accounts.
Hyhybt
From the article: “…it appeared, at first to me, that they were engaging in oral sex. The two guys in front of me then said, ‘No, they are fucking!’”
All right… I’m sorry, and perhaps this just demonstrates my lack of imagination, but I have to ask: how can one look like the other, even at a distance?
From MEJ: “Why are you all wasting your money traveling to anti-gay, backwards islands? Come to Canada, we have everything you want…”
Really? I had no idea Canada was known for its tropical climate.
from Houston Bill: “Not..there are some issues there so please take the excursions only…Not some countries are anti-Gay..but “in this country it is illegal to be Gay”.”
They shouldn’t tell people that BECAUSE IT IS NOT TRUE. It is not illegal to be gay. Certain *acts* are illegal. The difference is little more than semantics if you live there, but when you’ll only be there a few hours, it’s an important distinction. Surely you can find something else worthwhile to do for an afternoon or whatever in a different country than have sex… and if you can’t, go indoors and close the curtains and no one will be the wiser.
from I was on the cruise: “We were told we had to wear shirts walking around town. …All of us did, except 3 idiots…they then screamed gay discrimination.”
OK, I’ll bite: what does being gay have to do with not wearing a shirt?
Sassy Babe -(Dominican National)
We have no problem about the sexual preference of the persons above, but they had no right to do what they did in public for everyone to see, and The gay guys should be honest about things, because they can’t say one thing in the country and as they touch their nation soil to change their story and say something else. they should stick to the truth and tell it like it is stop assuming what isn’t facts about Dominica and its people. What if there were young children on the port at the time? would you subject them to something like that? would you subject your teenage children to something like that? what would you tell your children if they decided to ask mom, or dad what are these to guys doing? can we try it out now in public? What happens in the bed room between you and your partner is not the concern of the population of Dominica, so don’t be bringing it in public for the nation to see. And Dominica has had a lot of Gay people visit it in the past so i do not get where people (you all know yourselves) can say the country do not accept Gay’s, we have nothing against gay people. We don’t go judging people (even if there might be a few that will hate the preference those people chose) we are not God, God hates the sin NOT the sinner!!!
PJ
Whether they knew it was gay unfriendly or not, they had sex IN FULL VIEW OF THE PUBLIC. The blame lies with THEM.
Appalled
@KEV C & all those who think that —— If Dominica is backward because it has a law that citizens of another country don’t subscribe too then every country in the world is backward. There will always be laws we find as ludicrous and even you kev c would have laws in your own land you don’t like! If the gay community wants Dominica to change its laws with regard to homosexuality then bashing the country, calling it poor and stupid and backwards and degrading its citizens is not the way to do so.
Dominicans don’t bash your country for your laws so get off your high horse and stop bashing other peoples home. You never know where you may end up in life or who your partner in life may be & kev c if I knew a gay man interested in you from Dominica I’d tell him run for his life because you are extremely ignorant
Mrs Royer
@Houston Bill: Dominica does not criminalize Gays as straight as I am if I am caught fucking in public my ass would be arrested as well. Dominica has gays and though some hide it as do many countries, there are those open and proud of it, some are even my friends. People hardly pay gays no mind they are human beings like the rest of us. No one makes it a point of duty to criminalize them, what happened shocked everyone and what angered them more is that if any Dominican had gone to the US and there do such a thing straight they would be arrested as well and I get they themselves would not have chanced that shit in the US
Sassy Babe (Dominican National)
@Houston Bill: Did we Dominican’s say we Hate Gays? Did we say we do not have GAYS in our country?? What do you know about Dominica and Dominican’s? Every where, Every country around the world got it different sex perfence. And we abide by the laws from other countries that why most of us ain’t caught in this shit, They’re wrong and they should accept and face that. What they expected to just brake laws and get away with it???
Kev C
@Appalled: Harrassed in jail. Paraded before the public like animals. Called rogues and vagabonds by a magistrate. This is shameful treatment and Dominica should apologize to this couple and to the gay community for such unprofessional treatment. Americans have never abused dominicans but maybe we should treat you like animals.
Sassy Babe (Dominican National)
Dominica will appologise when they stop lying…cause u can’t say u knew about the laws and about accepting that you were wrong and when you exit the country and return to your country come crying foul and start discriminating the country and lying on the people. when they appologise they’ll get an appology. what they wanted a GOD-DAMN 3 STAR BEDROOM??? after they DISRESPECTED THE COUNTRY AND ITS LAWS?????
PJ
@Kev C: They had sex in public. I’d wager it has less to do with their orientation than their idiocy.
Also, “Americans have never abused dominicans” You’ve seen EVERY interaction EVER between Americans and Dominicans?
Didn’t think so.
PJ
@Sassy Babe (Dominican National): I know some of my countrymen are being jerks here, but I do hope you won’t judge us all based on their behavior (or that of the two men in the article). Some of us have the decency and sense to know this was wrong, and not because they’re gay.
Samuel
@pedro: Pedro, I am assuming that your comment is coming from the stand point that this person is well old enough to know better than to have had public sex and/or sex in view of the public if even on their own room balcony which I whole heartedly agree with. Both of these men, even if caught up on the “passion and/or heat” of the moment should have known better. Especially since one of them is a police officer and/or retired police officer.
Kev C
@Sassy Babe (Dominican National): Lying? I saw the photos of the military police arrest and the public parading. You better not come to my country and act disrespectful towards gays.
B
No. 59 · Kev C: “@B: It was first used in british common law and was any unnatural sex act.” Nope – the word “buggery” was in use for 200 years before that particular sex act was outlawed.
According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buggery#Etymology
‘The word “bugger” was derived, via the French “bougre”, from “Bulgar”, that is, “Bulgarian”, meaning the medieval Bulgarian heretical sect of the Bogomils, which spread into Western Europe and was claimed by the established church to be devoted to the practice of sodomy.[13] “Buggery” first appears in English in 1330, though “bugger” in a sexual sense is not recorded until 1555.’
Meanwhile, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buggery#In_law points out that ‘In English law, “buggery” was first used in the Buggery Act 1533,’ so we have the first law referring to buggery in 1533 and the first recorded use of it in English in 1330, just over 200 years earlier.
dominican
@Kev C:
pay lang patat mamaw “kev.c”
Houston Bill
@Sassy Babe (Dominican National): I operate under the assumption that if a nation continues to criminalize being Gay in Dominica, and yes it does….that the nation is anti-Gay. Especially if that nation continues to refuse to repeal its’ criminalization of any consensual sex in PRIVATE between two non-related consenting adults.
Are you as bad as Grenada (where the same anti-Gay law that Dominica cherishes was invoked THIS year to arrest two LGBT locals for the crime of private sexual relations between two non-related adult persons? No. You aren’t Jamaica. But your government is anti-Gay.
Why continue to keep the law on the books Dominica?
Other than to point out the hypocrisy of Atlantis throwing hundreds of thousands of dollars at countries such as your while claiming to be a responsible member of the Gay community, this ultimately isn’t about Atlantis so much as it is about the anti-Gay laws on the books in countries such as yours.
And they are enforced. Since 1990, 25 people have been arrested under the law in Dominica.
B
No. 66 · Spike
@B: “If just naked and fully visible, they should either have been ignored (as they would be in San Francisco) or given a nominal fine – basically a parking ticket”
Oh really? Do you understand when going on such a cruise you are visiting countries outside the US? Foreign countries? Countries that have their own set of laws?”
Yes really – what I actually wrote was, “If just naked and fully visible, they should either have been ignored (as they would be in San Francisco) or given a nominal fine – basically a parking ticket – if nudity was illegal there. If having sex in plain view of people in public spaces, then they should be arrested.”
Those are more or less the standards in many civilized countries. If you go to Munich or Vienna, for example, you’ll find lots of naked people in some areas (e.g., along the banks of a river). Nobody gets arrested. It’s no big deal – if there is a local ordinance against it, then a small fine (comparable to a parking ticket) is all that is required.
Then Spike says, ‘O”h and btw, the so called conflicting reports, no there were, there were apologist like you who were making up the facts and screaming gay discrimination contrary to the original reports.”‘
Spike is a liar – I never “made up facts” nor said anything about “anti-gay discrimination”. Rather, I pointed out inconsistencies in the stories, suggesting the need for more information to see what was going on. I did point out that, if you want gay tourists to show up, you do have to treat them well – no arrests for harmless things like walking down the street holding hands. Some of the early reports that Queerty quoted or linked to had differing accounts of what went on.
Kev Seasick (typical Queerty poster)
Why don’t these uppity Caribbean blacks learn their place? … which is, serving drinks to white American tourists! … plus, maybe looking quaint, and being entertaining, playing their calypso music and so on.
And how dare they put those poor gay guys in jail for a whole entire night, and call them “rogues” and “vagabonds”? Those are such horrible insults I’m feeling a little faint. Bring me a gin & tonic, boy.
Tyriq
Wow! I worked on a cruise that went to a few Caribbean islands and we never had problems such as this. If these guys had a modicum of decency and respect for themselves then why would they act out in this manner? It just makes no sense.
and Yes! I met some wonderful guys while on these cruises (tho not this particular cruise line) and even on shore.
Houston Bill
@Merlyn: Thank you for clicking on the link in the first post in the thread. That is a scandal. A very prominent Priest (who is so famous that he’s been featured in ABC News articles in the USA) directly blessing vigalantism and ‘combat’ against peaceful Gay protesters and doing so on the National News Wire of Russia. Extrodinary.
And if this is the same Father Sergy (Rybko) that I think it is, these threats should be considered more credible than coming from some unknown parish priest. Father Sergy appears to be VERY active in nationalist Orthodox youth organizations.
Merlyn
@Houston Bill:
After having been Orthodox for 16 years, I would put nothing past these people. I am really worried for the GLBT protestors over there. Disgusting that so-called “men of God” would sink to that level.
Merlyn
@Tyriq:
I don’t get that myself. My husband and I always take care to conduct ourselves as gentlemen in public. Homohaters don’t need a reason to start in on gay people. Why give them ammunition.
WillBFair
These guys are dingbats. But it’s another example of the conflict between gay and straight culture. Gay people just have a more casual attitude about sex.
It makes sense if these guys are from Palm Springs, surrounded all day by a bunch of rauchy queens. They probably mistook the world for Castro Street. It was stupid, and it’s bad pr for us.
i was on the cruise
@Kev C:
Frankly, if you’re in plain view, just yards from hundreds of people to include children, and you’re having sex for an extended period of time (30 minutes), and you’re fully aware of what you’re doing and that you’re doing so publicly, then you are indeed a rogue and a vagabond. Its not about being gay.
i was on the cruise
@Sassy Babe (Dominican National):
Sassy, I was on the cruise. It was my first trip to Dominica. The views of your country from my balcony were amazing and truly beautiful. I regret that as a result of the actions of these two jackasses, we were denied the privilege of visiting your country and appreciating its beauty. I wish we had had the opportunity to meet and interact with the locals as we did in Grenada and Barbados; two places very similar to Dominica and we were greeted warmly and with much kindness. We will return to Dominica some day, hopefully under better circumstances.
i was on the cruise
@Auntie Mame:
“Those gay cruises don’t change anybody’s mind. They only confirm that those things are floating sex clubs.”
Obviously, you’re misinformed. The Atlantis experience is nowhere near a floating sex club. You shouldn’t slander something you know nothing about. And, they certainly do change people’s minds. They dispel ignorance. Much of the progress we’ve made as a people is a result of ordinary people getting know gay people and realizing they are human beings just like they are.
m
if it would of bin a man and woman or 2 woman it would be no big deal……….so what they was having some fun on vacation…….
lorenzo
check out here where you should spend your gay money and where eyou should not
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory#Caribbean_islands
Siddney1
@Spike:
I agree with you they wanted an extra thrill.
Siddney1
@Houston Bill:
Look the authorities are not saying that you cannot be gay, I mean gay people are everywhere, but how does someone know if you are gay unless you make it blatantly evident , but doing something like this, or oral or something.
GamePro
Should have Been an Arab State and You all Idle Scum Mouths that feel like brushing your teeth using Dominica would really have something to talk about.
It’s nothing short of toilet bowl material to be trying to justify the behaviour of these two clowns seeking their minute of fame. They sure received it. They should have waited and come do that act in the middle of the city right in traffic. Sure some of you would sill have justified that too knowing well that regardless of sex, age or race this is unacceptable behaviour almost anywhere in the world.
Yet you all feel justified in supporting that behaviour. Even to the point of insulting our people. Well hear this forget the police feel free to try it in the public where “Bottles and Stones” are in sight. The police would have arrested someone alright.
You would have all reason to refer to me in what ever terms you please. Call me “Evil Dog” or what ever else. I would have ring out a Carib, Heineken, Guinness of KUBULI Beer bottle at those vagabons or any other of you.
RESPECT our LAWS…
Now for my 15 minuted of fame. Bring on your responses Biatches…
Siddney1
@i was on the cruise:
Tell them, you need to respect the law and others where ever you go.
Siddney1
@GamePro:
The authorities in Dominica tried to get these guy to be back in America as soon as possible and to treat them with respect, had it been somewhere else they would have been stones or injured. The things people are saying about Dominica are very disrespectful. You cannot anticipate a nice response from the Dominican public after these two switch heads ruined it for everyone else. The should apologize to the people who had to see their despicable behavior, and those other on the ship who may as a result get a negative response from people in future. These switch head are not victims, the should had been prosecuted to the full extent of the law for the damage their stupid actions hold for other gay people and the image of Dominica, and the Caribbean
Kev C
@GamePro: Go back to churning butter, rasta-barbarian. The only reason you have a computer is because of a gay man named Alan Turing .. who also was charged with indecency by primitive laws.
@i was on the cruise: straight up trolling like you aint an industry employee.
JohnAGJ
@B: @Kev C: If that is how you wish to live in San Francisco, good for you. Have a blast. I don’t and neither does most of the rest of humanity, including many of those who are gay-friendly or gay themselves. Gay, straight or whatever, have all the sex you want in your own place and not out in public.
Fromda
So now that have heard the account of an eyewitness and the story is completely different from the couples story, I wonder what does the American public have to say now.
B
No. 124 · JohnAGJ wrote, “@B: @Kev C: If that is how you wish to live in San Francisco, good for you.”
Looks like JohnAGJ is another idiot who can’t read – all I stated was that nudity is not illegal in San Francisco. That’s simply a fact. At no point did I suggest any preference for being naked in public, but I’m not going to have a fit if someone else is.
And nobody said anything about wanting to have sex in public, JohnAGJ hallucinations notwithstanding.
Now, I happen to think it is reasonable for gay tourists to boycott Dominica over its sodomy law. Why should people on a gay cruise, some of whom are married to each other, have to keep track of the location of the boat to know when it is OK for them to have
sex? Would you want an announcement over a PA system saying, “refrain from sexual activity for the next 15 minutes as we’ll be within Dominica’s territorial waters for that time”?
I might add that the UN Human Rights Council has pushed for an end to sodomy laws. You can read one example at http://www.starobserver.com.au/news/2011/10/26/regional-push-to-end-sodomy-laws/64045 and another at http://books.google.com/books?id=iuPkQyaHQGYC&pg=PA327&lpg=PA327&dq=U.N.+Sodomy+laws&source=bl&ots=umQLAWNPC2&sig=PZRvWvKvxQoGiT_3I7HMvwVm4B8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=-LlzT6C3NKvYiQKYttSkCw&ved=0CGUQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=U.N.%20Sodomy%20laws&f=false
If Dominica keeps its sodomy laws, it is in violation of international standards for human rights.
Identities of the "witnesses" confirmed?
Given the elaborate PR stunts to date, plus the fact that the “exclusive statements” fawn over Atlantis management, I’d like some independent confirmation of the identity of the individuals in question:
1) Are they real?
2) Are they willing to issue a sworn statement under the rules of perjury?
3) What connection, if any, do they have to the Atlantis Events Corp.?
ROFL
@Spike: “our sexual preference”
Wow, you really *ARE* from SoCal, aren’t you?
“Sexual preference?”
Man oh man. I’m going to go put on some sunglasses to keep the red on your neck from blinding me.
NYC Hugh
@Identities of the “witnesses” confirmed?: Hi#127. I am the Hugh that is quoted in the article. 1) Yes I am real. 2) I am willing to sign something to confirm that I am reporting the truth, 3) I can guarantee you that I am not in any way associated with the management of Atlantis or of the cruise line. The writer of this article found me due to a comment I made in reply to another article about the incident. The writer asked me if I could give him any names of people who saw the incident, so I passed him onto someone who had reported to me that he saw everything (the person who was also quoted in the article). This article was not provided by Atlantis, nor did they put words in my mouth.
puhleaze
Next time I come to the US I shall be sure to have sex on the balcony of my hotel and test your claims that one only back water states prosecute and secondly that straight couples can get away with it! I’ll carry some bail money just incase you’re all are wrong.
I worked in the hospitality industry for over 20 years and one thing is fact, there was no one more loud, obnoxious and self-entitled than the Americans. Every single legal problem I dealt with on behalf of guests (destruction of property, public disorder, drug possession, indecent public behaviour) involved an American. I LOATHE them. Stay in your fucking country if you cant summon a modicum of respect for your host country. Really! We dont want you here and also theres far more money with European travellers who thankfully comport themselves with humility and respect.
Dan Allen
@NYC Hugh: Thanks for that, Hugh. Emotions have run high on all sides of this story, obviously. I nearly left out your mention of Rich Campbell for that very reason — that anti-Atlantis conspiracy theorists could conceivably latch onto it — but I thought readers might like to know how the incident was treated on board the ship after it happened. Thanks again for your help.
GamePro
Hey Kev C, KFC or whatever you call yourself. “Rasta Babarian” I actually like that one nice try but you could just try and Call me “Gay” instead and Maybe that will offend me but Rasta Babarian… I Like…
So wipe the shit you just licked of an ass of your tonge, dick and finger tips and try again.
Don’t know your story bout the only reason I have Computer… I actually have more than one cause I build them too.
But what I do know is the ONLY REASON that you are alive is because Your FATHER inserted his Dick into Your MOTHER’s PUSSY (Not an Asshole), deposited some sperm and bout some nine months there after… KFC…
Fight Your cause but don’t try and dis those who don’t… You can’t win…
Why don’t you try and get yourself a junior through an “Asshole”
“Rasta Babarian”
GamePro
@Kev C:
Hey Kev C, KFC or whatever you call yourself. “Rasta Babarian” I actually like that one nice try but you could just try and Call me “Gay” instead and Maybe that will offend me but Rasta Babarian… I Like…
So wipe the shit you just licked of an ass of your tonge, dick and finger tips and try again.
Don’t know your story bout the only reason I have Computer… I actually have more than one cause I build them too.
But what I do know is the ONLY REASON that you are alive is because Your FATHER inserted his Dick into Your MOTHER’s PUSSY (Not an Asshole), deposited some sperm and bout some nine months there after… KFC…
Fight Your cause but don’t try and dis those who don’t… You can’t win…
Why don’t you try and get yourself a junior through an “Asshole”
“Rasta Babarian”
Full story here: http://www.queerty.com/exclusive-very-very-obvious-that-atlantis-cruise-duo-in-dominica-were-having-sex-says-witness-20120327/#ixzz1qVXJo4Iw
GamePro
@Mark: Funny How You reference People living in “Shit Holes” as a degrading Reference when Perhaps you are one of those who is fighting for the right to freely and even in PUBLIC stick your dick into a “SHIT HOLE”…
Now that’s ridiculous in a not so funny way… But I’ll still laught… LoL…
Appalled
Kev C is actually pretty funny. Way to go Kev C… I like people like you. So stupid it’s funny. Churning butter? LOL Reason for having a computer? LOL WOWWWW I’m cracking up over here.
Anyone caught having sex in public is a mischievous person and someone who is following the whim of the moment (bearing in mind they said it was so beautiful and they had a few cocktails)
And on the treating people like animals part etc … since when do locals and visitors have to have different laws and jail cells? So because they are tourists and gay they should get the prison suite? LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLL Talking nonsense bout Americans never abuse Dominicans …. NONSENSE! & Lies won’t help your already retarded rebuttal here. Unless you are the eyes and ears of all America and know all?!
Get off it Kev C LOL it’s good no one knows who you are exactly at least you can save face!
sam
These two idiots got a break, only being charged with indecent exposure.
All countries, states, counties, cities and the same with all businesses want the money of all customers.
But, there is no profit ,,, only LOSS,, with this kind of customer.
Because, they damage the property.
And, they drive the cost up for all the good customers to pay.
Exactly the same as thieft in a store.
Requiring more $$ for police, security, locks, insurance,,,, on and on ..
It is amazing how much of the price we pay for each item we purchase goes to try to avoid the bad customer.
I have been in business for many years,,,, I could have made so much more money and could have sold every item for a much lower price if I could have avoided bad customers.
So, now I DESCERMINATE AND PROFILE in an attempt to avoid bad customers.
I do not like doing that,,,, but it is necessary to look at trends/dangers,, to try to stay alive.
This reminds me of a story, years ago,
as a young gay couple in the San Francisco Bay Area.
We along with our dog, we were looking to rent.
We were refused, the landloard said, “I do not rent to your type.”
Not a good feeling, to be refused.
I am happy for all the changes.
These two idiots should be ashamed for the damage they have done to our group.
I am sad that all the nice guys on this cruise,,, were not in the news.
I am especially conserned and sad for the damages this caused to the local gays on this Island.
Final thought,
gays and all other groups will always be judged by the craziest idiot of the group.
sam
@puhleaze: puhleaze
My friend ,,, I am sad to say, you are 100% correct.
(I am a gay American.)
“THE UGLY AMERICA” is the title of a book I remember reading in the 1960’s.
I seen all the things you have described first hand while living in other countries and traveling around the world as an aviator for many years.
Now, I have owned a hotel property for 27 years and the same problem continues.
It is small here at my property because I profile and descriminate in an attempt to avoid the losses due to the idiots.
Kev C
@GamePro: @GamePro:
Blow it out your ass.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-mpgArJN9Q
B
No. 130 · puhleaze wrote, “Next time I come to the US I shall be sure to have sex on the balcony of my hotel and test your claims that one only back water states prosecute and secondly that straight couples can get away with it! I’ll carry some bail money just incase you’re all are wrong.”
Oh please do try that. But if you get arrested, which is not likely since you probably wouldn’t be noticed, don’t blame anyone posting here – nobody said that having sex in public was legal anywhere. Some (including me) pointed out that nudity is legal in San Francisco, and one moron got upset at me for simply providing the facts. Here’s some articles (with pictures) if anyone has any doubts:
http://pjmedia.com/zombie/2011/09/26/san-francisco%E2%80%99s-naked-protest-and-the-ethics-of-public-nudity/
http://blog.sfgate.com/culture/2011/09/07/two-eggs-sunnyside-up-nudity-in-san-francisco/
Nudity of course is pretty rare in San Francisco: one reason – fog.
beff boy
d whole point is being gay is nasty according to vybes kartel if a go lay down with another man how d f… d baby born
Siddney1
Hi this is my last comment on this topic, it is getting way out of hand. As educated individuals it is very ill disciplined to insult each other because the do not support what you are doing.
Firstly it is important to understand due to the history of Dominica and its culture that there are laws which prohibit certain sexual activities. When accommodations are made to be tolerant towards gays, they do stuff like have sex in public, or suck each other in public, which the rest of us do not want to see.
Secondly in the US may be more tolerant to gay individuals due to its culture, however not everyone is in agreement with this.
As a result gays do not want to be insulted and disrespected, but propagate these negative feeling toward themselves by thinking and expecting everyone to think like they do. Get this straight, everyone will NEVER accept gays, that does not make them anti gay, that makes them socialized differently, and you since you don’t want to be called “homo” why call people names?
Siddney1
Why cant gay people travel on a normal cruise like the rest of us? Aren’t gay people just people too. WHat’s the deal with promoting being gay, just be normal, and accept yourself and move one, stop looking for acceptance from other people. Others have the right to their own opinion.
Hyhybt
@Siddney1: A lot of straight people go on cruises to hook up. If gay people want to do the same… well, it wouldn’t work so well if almost everyone else on board were straight, would it?
B
No. 141 · Siddney1 wrote, “Why cant gay people travel on a normal cruise like the rest of us?”
Of course gays can go on a “normal” cruise, but some may prefer a gay cruise for any number of reasons, including being able to hold hands or go dancing without running
into some guy like the rube from Arkansas who showed up in the Castro one day and loudly said, “Is that a man or a woman? Now Ah’ve seen everything.”
Jaack
@Spike: If a straight couple were pointed out I DOUBT if they would be arrested. Cops would probably say they were in love or some such trash. Gays are always singled out for everything wrong in the world etc. Did they think they were safe on the ship? Probably, not realizing that the busybodies were looking for something to cause trouble for Gays again.
Listen to the judge verbally chastising the men, like they were children and making the 2 plead for mercy of the court. know that not 1 dime of my money will go there
Juan Claudio
@NYC Hugh: I am the witness mentioned by Hugh and reported by Dan Allen. I do not work for Atlantis, but I do enjoy cruising with them. The sex that happened on the balcony of the ship in Dominica was real, as many other people who were on the excursion bus could also state. What we saw was both real, and unreal. How could the two guys NOT know they were being seen from the shore.
Domi
Jaack; straight couple would have been arrested too. Trust! Even straight couples who are locals have been mocked when caught, see couple in 2010. Also the lied about where they were held, they spent 20 minutes in a cell and were moved to an old office. Their case was rushed, pushed ahead of others. Will your country do the same for me when I visit and fuck someone at the airport next to the passport control counter?
Jana
@Appalled: I see your point and I am from the Caribbean as well. I would somewhat agree with you up to a point. I don’t know how things are in Dominica, but in Barbados, gay persons are disrespected constantly. I’ve never seen a straight person/couple shouted at, cursed at, laughed at as a would be gay person/couple. I say ‘would be’ because anyone gay person/couple in Barbados, who knows what’s best for them, wouldn’t dare hold hands, smooch in public, or ‘act gay’ – that’s social suicide, and probable public assault.
I believe that until persons can find a way in the Caribbean to see past their ignorance and see another human being as just that, then there is a need to protect the vulnerable – gay rights is a must.
Saying that though, in this particular case, as much as I am an advocate for gay rights, it does appear that these guys may have crossed the line. Public sex acts are a no-go in most conservative societies, especially those in the Caribbean. I agree too with the person who says that the event planner should have been very clear about what’s not acceptable in the ports where the ship docks. Then if persons decide to throw caution to the wind, they shouldn’t be surprised by the consequences they may find themselves in.
S Dominican
I am surprised at all this. Dominica is a backward country? Caribbean blacks need to learn their place? Dominica is anti gay? What would have been said if nothing had been done? Can i come to your country and break the law then just walk out like nothing happened? i resent my country being called backward because it doesn’t operate like the US. Why don’t a few of you, who insist that it is the fault of my “backward” country, go out and have sex in plain view of the public in your own cities. See what happens. After that we will continue this conversation.
KEV SEASICK: “why don’t these uppity caribbean blacks learn there place? Which is serving drinks to white American tourists.” We also get black american tourists on our shores. Should we seve them too or just the white ones? Is my place beneath or above you, seeing as I am a Caribbean black, and that you may consider me uppity for saying what these men did was wrong? i would really like to know where my place is. You better be careful about your answer to that particular question.
I love gay men. they make wonderful friends, but i will not stand for HAVING SEX IN PLAIN VIEW OF THE PUBLIC; not from anyone regardless of sexual orientation, race, creed, age nor religion. Sex is a private act.
Leanna 15
@Kev C: fellow illiterate…. but wait i’m just proving myself more illeterate by responding to your fuckery… i would oh so LOVE for you to come to Dominica and say that out loud
Siddney1
KEV SEASICK: “why don’t these uppity caribbean blacks learn there place?
Full story here: http://www.queerty.com/exclusive-very-very-obvious-that-atlantis-cruise-duo-in-dominica-were-having-sex-says-witness-20120327/#ixzz1qig9fbeR
Let us take it there if that’s what you want to do. As an educated individual, be you gay, straight, crooked, or white you should be able to make you point without insulting, people who have the right to defend their sovereignty. It is offensive for people to come to the US and disrespect you, or you opinion. Likewise behave in a dignified manor, and respect peoples opinion.
The BLACK PEOPLE in the CARIBBEAN will take their place as, Health Professionals, Lawyers, Professors, Technicians, and respectable people in society. I have been on Holidays to the US, I currently live and work in the US and white, maybe gay people get my drinks all the time, and mop the floor or any mess I make, my trash collector is a white guy, someone has to do it.
Stop spreading venom, in a closed and shut case. Don’t go to other countries and break the law, and expect people to smile at you. Don’t comment on things online if you have no constructive, informed comments. And Don’t bring RACE into this, if a gay man does something wrong he should be punished, not because he is gay but because he did something wrong.
proof
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=sd6kr_mD4v4
Here’s the photo evidence
Spanky
@Houston Bill:
Why are people still sticking up for these two guys and blaming it on the cruise line? Maybe if people would do their own research about the places that they are traveling to before hand, then maybe this wouldn’t have happened. Claiming that the cruise line didn’t give them enough of a warning is just ignorant.
Besides, why go on these cruises if they take you to ports where you are not wanted? Again, just because they are a ‘Gay Cruise’ doesn’t mean you are protected.
Wake up and see that these two lied about what they did and then turned around and blamed it on them being gay. It wasn’t the fact they were gay, it was the fact they broke the law and disrespected the port they were in.
These two owe a huge apology to the gay community.
Xana
@Houston Bill: And your point is? THEY WERE FUCKING IN PUBLIC AND WE’RE ARRESTED. HOW IS THAT ANTI-GAY?
LMAO
These are two queens I wouldn’t WANT to have f&@cking in Lauderdale. Nice tank tops in your mug shots. Maybe if you stopped doing g in public you’d keep your dicks in your pants.
LMAO
@pedro: Haha… But wait, is your Dad a circuit queen?
Small islander
Its not illegal to be gay in St.Lucia or Dominica .What’s illegal is the act of buggery and it is very difficult to prove if you are in the confines of your home.There is no record of anyone being arrested for being gay. The facts need to be straight.
Xana
@Auntie Mame: LOL! Auntie! YOU ROCK!!!
Me
They were arrested for being stupid. You expose your self in most places you at least get arrested. Idiots.
Kasnar
@pedro: Uh…What’s pathetic? That the guy in the blue tank might be your dad’s age? And what age is that? I’m confused….(???)
Marko
Sorry but all the apologists trying to argue that Dominica is an open and accepting country are splitting hairs – being gay may not be illegal in Dominica but sexual acts between people of the same sex (ie. gay people), even in private, most certainly are illegal. If a country makes it illegal for same-sex attracted people to have sex with each other then it’s an anti-gay nation in my book. These guys did a stupid thing and certainly ought to have received an indecent exposure citation for it, but to be the subject of this much outrage, and to be paraded around and publicly vilified is an excessive and, yes, homophobic reaction. As for those delicate children everyone’s worried about, as a father I’ve found kids are actually fairly resilient – I wouldn’t take my son to a sex show or anything but I don’t think he’d be traumatised by the sight of two adults having sexual relations. There are far greater threats out there to a child’s wellbeing than something we all do. People are way too uptight about sex and nudity – olde time puritan values in the 21st century.
true
Dominica is not a dangerous place for any one. thousands of guy people have already came to the island and will tell you that they enjoyed their stay in the country and the people there are very loving. The problem we have is this and i challenge any one who disagree to put their self in our place. how would you feel to be walking on the streets with your child of six or seven years old and to see two people have sex? you would be outrage.
true
one man is a x-police he should know better rather than to lie. they should have been placed in prison for ten years.
Jeff
I have certainly been on several Atlantis cruises and can attest to the highly sexualized atmosphere. So what? We’re gay, and many of us spend our days working in straight, repressive environments. Yes people have sex on the ship late at night and in various places. So what? You have problems with that? Don’t go on a gay cruise!
That being said, having sex on a balcony in plain view of people in port is simply ridiculous. I’m not saying the punishment should have been worse but I am (quite frankly) happy that these guys had to sweat it out a bit – in jail and in court. Now you know – boys – that Dominica does not equal Palm Springs (where you apparently live). DUH!!!
One has a lot of freedom on a Gay cruise but you have to realize that there is a world out there beyond the ship.
george saint-george
The issue is not about being gay. The police let 2000+ gay passengers sail away on the ship. They only arrested the 2 gay passengers for engaging in illegal public sex acts in front of the island villagers (many of whom are women and children selling trinkets and souvenirs port-side) Imagine you are a poor villager selling souvenirs to passengers of a floating white palace to put food on the table. You look up and see two Americans humping in public near your peaceful island. As a gay American I am ashamed people like this couple exist.