Queerty is better as a member

Log in | Register
  sad people

Exodus’ Alan Chambers Wrote a Book About How He’ll Never Really Be Straight

07-24-091

As the president of Exodus International, Alan Chambers is the most repressed homosexual we’ve ever come across. (That is, unless we can confirm one of those Vatican fellas is in the closet.) Which makes him perfectly suited to write, unconvincingly, about the subject of how he learned to reject his same-sex attractions over twenty years. Which sounds like the worst use of time spent on earth, well, ever.

Chambers’ new book is Leaving Homosexuality, a feel good book about learning to hate yourself and reject nature. But what we can appreciate from Chambers is he’s not claiming himself to be a heterosexual — just a devout non-gay. He tells Citizen Link:

The key thought here is the opposite of homosexuality isn’t heterosexuality. It’s holiness. There are people who are conflicted with their sexuality, involved with homosexuality, and there is a way out for those who want it. But it doesn’t say that they’re going into heterosexuality, because that’s not the point. The point is that people can leave whatever it is that God calls less than His best and move into something that is His best, becoming more like He is.

[...] For so long I’ve heard gay activists say to me, “You’re just in denial. You’re not grasping the reality of the situation. You’re just denying who you really are.” The truth is, I am in denial, but it is self-denial. I’m not in denial of who I used to be. I’m not in denial of the temptations that I could still experience. I am denying the power that sin has over me.

Sin does not have any power that we don’t give it, and what I’ve found is that my freedom – and the freedom of others I’ve known who’ve left homosexuality — was centered around denying what might come naturally to us regardless of how it got there. And once you deny sin’s power, you can live a free life.

The most authentic part of my life is first and foremost my relationship with Christ, but sitting here where I’m doing this interview in my back yard — with my kids and with my wife — this is who I am. This is who I want to be. This is the truth of my life. This is who I was created to be. And this is what brings me happiness.

Bless the woman (Leslie) who married him, in sickness and, uh, mental “health.”

But here’s the rub: It’s not that we’ve got anything wrong with Chambers decision to deny himself the pleasure of being gay. That’s his call, and however ridiculous we find it, it’s a personal decision we wouldn’t want anyone telling us we don’t have the right to make.

Where we fault Chambers, though, is through his work with Exodus: Advocating adults and young people (and their families) disavow the way their creator made them for a life of hating yourself so a man on a cross won’t send you to hell. This man does not teach love and prosperity; he prescribes dangerous advice for malleable minds.

By:           editor editor
On:           Jul 27, 2009
Tagged: , ,

  • 303 Comments
    • Jack
      Jack

      So he’s admitting there’s so such thing as “ex-gay”. He hasn’t “left homosexuality” at all. He’s a gay man who’s chosen, for religious reasons, to remain celibate.

      Maaaajor difference!

      Lovely oil-painting, btw. Is it supposed to be a person?

      Jul 27, 2009 at 2:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Chris
      Chris

      Okay, either this man has been Photoshopped to within an inch of his life, or he’s really one of those puppets from Team America: World Police.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 2:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill
      Bill

      This man should have consulted his ex-gay manual before taking that photo. He may be ‘slipping’ back to the gayness by the looks of things. I mean, didn’t Bruno wear that same suit in the movie?

      Jokes aside, what a sad, sad, hurt, broken man he must be. Can you imagine being the poster boy for EX-GAY?

      I wonder if he prays to Jeebus while jacking off to porn?

      I wonder if he will ever learn to love himself?

      I wonder if he will ever stop lying to himself and the world in exchange for a fleeting moment of ‘acceptance’ he feels from those that actually wish him dead.

      I wonder how this can happen in 2009.

      I wonder if it will ever change.

      But mostly, I feel sad for this lost, lost soul.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 3:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • matt
      matt

      It’s as if Pierre & Giles had their way with him.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 3:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ThatguyFromBoston
      ThatguyFromBoston

      He looks like someone I saw tied up in a bath house once.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 3:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      How cruel of you homosexuals to mock someone who genuinely wants to rehabilitate.

      Do you stand outside of AA meetings and make fun of people trying to get sober?

      Jul 27, 2009 at 3:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @Chris:

      FUCK YEAH!

      Jul 27, 2009 at 3:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ThatguyFromBoston
      ThatguyFromBoston

      @ Youcanthandlethetruth – We mock the self-delusion, we mock the self-hatred, we are saddened at a life lost to self-inflicted misery.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 3:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andrew
      Andrew

      @TANK:
      Here’s a newsflash: When pretending to take a principled stand on something — let’s say, the ethics of “mocking” someone — it helps if you don’t do the thing you stand against. Unless, of course, you are comfortable being a hypocrite.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 3:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @ThatguyFromBoston: That’s how most people feel about homosexuals who DON’T try to rehabilitate.

      Why not learn a little tolerance and respect for a guy who wants to revert to heterosexuality and normality, instead of the usual hateful homosexual bigotry?

      Jul 27, 2009 at 3:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andrew
      Andrew

      Sorry Tank, that was meant for YouCan’tHandleTheTruth.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 3:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @Andrew:

      Okay. I won’t join exodus.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 3:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @Andrew: SO how do you feel about pedophiles or drug addicts who try to rehabilitate?

      Are they wasting their time because “God made them that way”?

      Jul 27, 2009 at 3:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andrew
      Andrew

      @youcanthandlethetruth:
      Here’s a newsflash: When pretending to take a principled stand on something — let’s say, the ethics of “mocking” someone — it helps if you don’t do the thing you stand against. Unless, of course, you are comfortable being a hypocrite.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 3:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dick Mills
      Dick Mills

      His BFF Stephen Bennett is pissed about Chamber’s revelation. He’s mad as hell that Chambers lifted the veil to expose the seamy underbelly of the ex-gay movement in all it’s fraudulent glory. I guess Bennett doesn’t have a book deal to fall back on, and needs the continued revenue stream from the self loathing deluded souls that he swindles.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 3:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andrew
      Andrew

      @youcanthandlethetruth:
      What’s the matter, can’t reply to my comment? Have to deflect to something not originally posted?

      Jul 27, 2009 at 3:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @youcanthandlethetruth:

      You’re retarded. No one cares about this guy’s choice to delude himself marry another delusional christotard and abuse kids by having them and indoctrinating them in this thought poison. What matters is that he’s advocating it for others, and doesn’t just think it’s right for him, but right for all. That affects other people, and specifically, their ability to attain happiness (it precludes them from attaining it), and that’s why people criticize him. It’s justifiable. …douchenozzle.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 3:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      Who said celibate on this post? Didn’t he say he is with his wife & kids in his backyard doing the interview?

      And he definitely has a Gay look in the photo to me too.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 3:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      SO how do you feel about mormons, pedophiles or drug addicts who try to rehabilitate?

      Are they wasting their time because “God made them that way”?

      Jul 27, 2009 at 3:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @Andrew: Pity you don’t have the moral fortitude and strength of mind to try and reform.

      Many alcoholics and drug addicts never lose the yearning for booze or drugs. Ditto smokers who give up.

      Would you make fun of them for that?

      Pity you don’t have the strength of character to at least try.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 3:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dick Mills
      Dick Mills

      @youcanthandlethetruth: I, personally, am of the opinion that pedophiles should be shot, or hanged until dead. And that includes all of those kid-fucking priests.

      But, I didn’t know that Chambers was a drug-addict. I know that Bennett was addicted to everything under the sun, bit Chambers was just a cock-sucker.. right? And, still is, but only in his mind. But if you want to discuss drug addicts, you are probably on the wrong site.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 3:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • anonymous
      anonymous

      @Andrew: I´m probably wasting my time replying to someone using phrases like “homosexual bigotry”, but I just wanted to point out that’s not the same thing.

      Being gay = Loving people of the same sex, not hurting anyone
      Being a pedophile = Enjoying sex with minors who cannot give their consent, hurting people
      Being a drug addict = damaging your own body, hurting people

      Jul 27, 2009 at 3:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @youcanthandlethetruth:

      That’s not an argument.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 3:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @TANK: Tank – now you’ve resorted to the usual hateful, homosexual, christiophobic bigotry.

      There’s nothing wrong with him wanting to help other homosexuals rehabilitate, no more so than a former alcoholic who works with AA.

      Why are you so negative?

      You guys will never “get it”.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 3:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @youcanthandlethetruth:

      rehabilitate from what?

      Jul 27, 2009 at 3:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @anonymous: All three are examples of abnormal behavioural patterns.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 3:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • anonymous
      anonymous

      @youcanthandlethetruth: So? Something being abnormal doesn’t make it wrong. (Though of course pedophilia and drug addictions are, for different reasons.)

      Jul 27, 2009 at 3:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andrew
      Andrew

      @youcanthandlethetruth:
      Still can’t reply to the actual comment, can ya? Oh, don’t you worry. We’re a tolerant people here at Qty. You just write whatever comes to mind — doesn’t matter if it’s on-point or not. There there. It’ll be ok.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 3:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @anonymous: The vast majority of people consider homosexuality to be wrong, including this guy Alan Chambers and millions of other rehabilitated homosexuals.

      As with the AA 12-step plan, the first step is to acknowledge the problem.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 3:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @Andrew: Andrew I replied to your comment but you probably didn’t like the answer.

      So try re-stating your question

      Jul 27, 2009 at 3:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jim
      Jim

      Why are you guys feeding that troll?

      Jul 27, 2009 at 3:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @youcanthandlethetruth:

      Why do gay people need to be “rehabilitated”? From what?

      Jul 27, 2009 at 3:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @Jim:

      Because it’s fun and effortless.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 3:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @TANK: From homosexual behaviour of course.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 3:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • anonymous
      anonymous

      Something being the majority’s opinion doesn’t make it right. The majority of people used to believe slavery was the way to go. There are no arguments why loving people of the same sex, which is the defenition of homosexuality, is in and of itself wrong. (And not all people are Christians, so we’re talking actual reasons that go for everyone, not “some entity said so”.)

      Jul 27, 2009 at 3:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @youcanthandlethetruth:

      But why?

      Jul 27, 2009 at 3:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dick Mills
      Dick Mills

      @youwouldn’tknowthetruth: The majority of people in the recent polls think that same sex marriage should be allowed. And every day more of the decrepitly aged who claim to be christians and who hate us the most virulently are croaking, and that just makes out numbers continue to grow.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 3:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andrew
      Andrew

      @youcanthandlethetruth:
      I simply pointed out that you admonished people for “mocking” and that you mock people all the time in your comments. You replied by suggesting I mock alcoholics and drug addicts.

      Again. You just write away and don’t worry for a second whether anything you post is ever on-point. It doesn’t matter if you make sense, ok? Just don’t you worry now. We understand.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 3:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @Dick Mills: Thanks for your tolerant attitude towards elderly people.

      The fact is most people mature as they grow older so don’t bet that immature youngsters will always support the redefinition of marriage for homosexuals.

      And remember the American people have voted against homosexual marriage every single chance they have had. Your polls don’t really matter.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 3:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @Andrew: Andrew you don’t make much sense.

      You are the one going off-topic.

      I repeat my earlier point – why are you so hateful and negative towards a guy who wants to rehabilitate from homosexuality?

      You demand tolerance from others- how about a little tolerance from you?

      Jul 27, 2009 at 3:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @youcanthandlethetruth:

      WHy don’t polls matter? And why do homosexuals need to be rehabilitated?

      Jul 27, 2009 at 3:59 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • M Shane
      M Shane

      No. 29 · youcanthandlethetruth ;I guess I was mistaken with you ; It sure seems as if you wandered in from an odd planet. You are worse than some of the bigots here. And dangerous. You’re crazy. REcovering alcoholics have something dysfunctional in thier lives. Gay people don’t except that some of them wan to be nuits like you.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 4:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dick Mills
      Dick Mills

      @youwouldn’tknowthetruth: That tolerant people age doesn’t turn them into hatemongers. And, every year our numbers do continue to rise, because of exactly the reason that I gave you. As many as 2% to 3% of those over 65 croak every year. And that only benefits us. And I have no (none/zero/zilch/zip/nada) tolerance for the hatemongers how despise me. PERIOD. Those who leave me alone, I have the utmost respect for, and would happily never think about another christian who loves to spew hate and lies about me.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 4:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill
      Bill

      Dear youcanthandlethetruth,

      After much consideration, we have collectively decided that you should be cancelled.

      From life.

      There. Done. You’re cancelled from life.

      Now, in the name of the Holy Spirit, we rebuke you!!!!!

      Please go away. You are ruining our day. And you are pissing off the baby Jesus. And we all know what happens when you piss of the baby Jesus, don’t we. That’s right, youcanthandlethetruth, a puppy dies. When you piss off the baby Jesus, a puppy fucking dies.

      Live with THAT you MONSTER!

      (You also have the wrong approach to life, I might add.)

      Jul 27, 2009 at 4:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      I’m going to write a book about my struggle with red hair. No one can understand but me…the daily ordeal, and my wish to change that.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 4:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Peter
      Peter

      The guy never said that he was able to rehabilitate himself. He only made the decision to deny he was Gay, and live the life of a Jesus loving heterosexual, even though he is not one.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 4:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dale
      Dale

      This christ-o-freak that’s posting here is in dire need of an education in biology.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 4:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dick Mills
      Dick Mills

      @youwouldn’tknowthetruth: Stephen Bennett, another “ex-gay” is more hateful toward Chambers than any of us have been. We just think he is a sad excuse for an existence. He is ready to excommunicate him.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 4:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jason_M
      Jason_M

      Heck, I learned to hate myself all on my own when I was growing up, so long ago. I don’t need no book to tell me how.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 4:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • anon
      anon

      @youcanthandlethetruth: I agree with not mocking him for his own decision. I think the hatred comes more from his decision to drag other impressionable young people into this self-hatred by convincing them their perfectly natural, not in-and-of-itself unhealthy orientation, their true selves and their love of people who happen to be of the same sex as them should be damned and resisted forever in favor of a life of self-torture.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 4:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • M Shane
      M Shane

      The sad , very unchristian fact about this sorry money grabber is that he is profiting off of the misery of gay children whose parents will be throwing that deranged book in their faces and expecting them to deny their natures and be miserable. People will even torture children-the most vulnerable people- to make money. What a dangerous crackkpot.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 4:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jason_M
      Jason_M

      @Jack: “lovely oil painting” Very funny; very apt.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 4:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @Dick Mills: The hippies of 40 years ago who preached drugs and free sex are now the CPAs PTA Mums and retirees who vote against redefining marriage for homosexuals.

      Most people mature as they grow older and take on more responsibilities.

      What seemed like a good idea when you were a hapless, irresponsible teenager looks different when you have a career, a mortgage and your kids student loans to worry about.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 4:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mountainword
      Mountainword

      Nice jacket – who shot the couch??

      I’m not sure the gay community needs this guy. Let the straighties have him.

      My god, did you see that makeup job?

      Jul 27, 2009 at 4:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @TANK: Tank polls don’t matter because legislation isn’t made and Constitutions are not amended based on polls.

      I repeat, Americans have voted against homosexual marriage every single chance they have had.

      And this November 4 more states will be voting to amend their Constitutions to protect marriage

      Jul 27, 2009 at 4:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @anon: You are entitled to your opinion but he is entitled to his.

      Now you know how it feels to be called an intolerant bigot

      Jul 27, 2009 at 4:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dick Mills
      Dick Mills

      @youhavetofabricate”truth”: That is simply a lie. Of those over 65, about 40% of them vote for us, and they are the less hate riddled, more compassionate among them. And that more than likely includes all of those hippies.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 4:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • hardmannyc
      hardmannyc

      I could definitely hate-fuck that.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 4:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @Dick Mills: @Dick Mills: You are the one who described them as “the decrepitly aged who claim to be christians and who hate us the most virulently are croaking”.

      Seems like you are the one who is “hate-riddled” and intolerant to anyone who chooses to disagree with you and who takes a principled stand against homosexuality and the redefinition of marriage for homosexuals.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 4:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • anon
      anon

      @youcanthandlethetruth: What? No one called me a bigot. That’s ridiculous.

      And again he DOES have a right to his opinion, he doesn’t have a right to get impressionable young teenagers suicidal by telling them something unharmful and (as Chambers now himself admids) unchangable is going to get them into hell unless they choose to never experience romance or a true first kiss, soulmates or good things like that.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 4:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dick Mills
      Dick Mills

      @blindtothetruth: I am intolerant of those who actively hate me. I will never apologize for that. But, like I said, I would happily never ever think about another hatemongering christian again, if they would simply stop spreading hateful lies about me. And, the entire world would then be a much better place.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 4:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @anon: Again, that is your opinion.

      The fact is there are countless teenagers who thought they were homosexual but it turns out they were not.

      Why on earth shouldn’t he try to save these young people from a lifetime of stigma and abnormality?

      Jul 27, 2009 at 4:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jason_M
      Jason_M

      Chambers seems to say here that if you consider homosexual behavior sinful and if you believe in a direct relationship with Christ and that relationship requires an effort to abjure sin, then one can deny one’s sexual longings as part of building a Christ-centered, holy life. The religious life (Catholics, other cloistered folk) base their quest on denial of the worldly, the low, the sinful. I don’t see any real difference between what he is doing or saying he is doing and what other’s on a spiritual quest of a certain kind do. Except here, of course, it becomes a prosletyzing crusade.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 4:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CJKC
      CJKC

      @youcanthandlethetruth: Comparing being gay to having an addiction is like comparing metal to plastic, they are completely different things and make you appear extremely illogical. Homosexuality was taken out of the American Psychiatric Association’s DSM decades ago and all accredited schools of psychology and psychiatry stand firm that it is extremely psychologically damaging to try and “change” someone’s sexual orientation, or “choose” to repress it.

      “What seemed like a good idea when you were a hapless, irresponsible teenager looks different when you have a career, a mortgage and your kids student loans to worry about.” -Again, your argument simply does not make sense, my friend. Having a career, a mortgage, and kids’ student loans logically have absolutely nothing to do with one’s personal views on same-sex relationships. If anything, it would make someone epathetic to the fact that millions of same sex couples who have the same burdens of having a job, a mortgage, and student loans are at an economic disatvantage because they are denied the privileges and economic benefits that people like you have, so their plight is even more difficult.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 4:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @Dick Mills: So it’s ok for you to be selectively intolerant because you believe strongly in what you believe?

      But you criticise Christians and others for doing the same thing??

      Are you getting it yet?

      Jul 27, 2009 at 4:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • anon
      anon

      @youcanthandlethetruth: The fact is there are countless teenagers who thought they were homosexual but it turns out they were not.

      Which is absolutely fine too! But if they are gay, it’s just going to hurt them. Abnormal does not equal wrong, and instead of trying to “save” them from stigma, sometimes even against their own will, he could just, i dunno, stop heaping on the stigma?

      Jul 27, 2009 at 4:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • anon
      anon

      “all accredited schools of psychology and psychiatry stand firm that it is extremely psychologically damaging to try and “change” someone’s sexual orientation, or “choose” to repress it.”

      and that’s another reason, of course.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 4:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CJKC
      CJKC

      @CJKC: *empathetic

      Jul 27, 2009 at 4:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jason_M
      Jason_M

      @youcanthandlethetruth: The fact is there are countless teenagers who thought they were homosexual but it turns out they were not.

      What is the source of the “fact” that there are “countless teenagers” in this category? Don’t let this kind of assertion just sit there, folks.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 4:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dick Mills
      Dick Mills

      @truthsoworthlessyouwon’tevenuseyourrealname: As long as hate filled christians are intolerant of me, I will be intolerant of them. There are a lot, probably soon to be a majority, of Christians who are tolerant of me. I have absolutely no problem with them. The lying liar hate filled ones who simply keep their vile emissions to themselves or there cadre of associates, I have no problem with them. The ones who actively lie about me, I have no tolerance for. They are the vilest of the vile. They cannot win against us with out spreading hate filled lies, and I have zero respect for hateful liars.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 4:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andrew
      Andrew

      EVERYONE: YouCan’tHandleTheTruth has some very serious and obvious cognitive deficits. He/she tries, but it’s just too hard for him/her to make a real point or actually respond to another’s post. So, please please, let’s all show some sympathy and completely ignore him/her from now on. It’s just better that way. Really.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 4:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dick Mills
      Dick Mills

      @Andrew: But I was having so much fun.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 4:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andrew
      Andrew

      EVERYONE: Please ignore YouCan’tHandleTheTruth. Just ignore him/her. Don’t respond. Lurkers like him/her take everybody’s time and energy on sites like this. It’s a waste of time to engage him/her. Please ignore his/her comments.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 4:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • anon
      anon

      @Andrew: Awww…

      Jul 27, 2009 at 4:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      #71 I’ve said that a number of times Andrew, but it doesn’t work! Another question – WHY are these people here? There are thousands upon thousands of churches to go to and probably zillions of websites. We Gay people have so little and we have to monkey around with them here too on our own turf?

      Jul 27, 2009 at 4:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andrew
      Andrew

      @Dick Mills:
      I know, I know. It’s fun to play with the simpleton. But sometimes I need to step in and say “Now Dick, don’t you think you’ve had enough for today?” ;)

      Jul 27, 2009 at 4:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andrew
      Andrew

      @Jaroslaw:
      I’m with ya. The snarky side of me loves to mess with them. But in truth, it’s such a waste of time with people like him/her. And… the ONLY way we can get rid of his/her annoying comments is to IGNORE them.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 4:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andrew
      Andrew

      PROPOSAL: From this day forward… Everyone is to completely ignore YouCan’tHandleTheTruth and the like. Likewise, if some other lurker laboring under the weight of his/her religious beliefs posts obnoxious comments……. just ignore them. Don’t respond at all. We’ll never change their mind, never win an argument, and they will always succeed in wasting our time. Let’s ignore the idiots of the world from this day forward!!!!

      Jul 27, 2009 at 4:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • anon
      anon

      @Andrew: I hate that you asked so nice and politely, it makes it so much more difficult to ignore!

      I think they’re gone, anyway.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 4:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • hardmannyc
      hardmannyc

      “The fact is there are countless teenagers who thought they were homosexual but it turns out they were not.”

      I don’t think there’s a teenager on the planet who thinks he’s gay who’s not. Not in this world.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 4:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Z reveals
      Z reveals

      What a freak!!!

      Jul 27, 2009 at 5:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tarxien
      tarxien

      @youcanthandlethetruth:

      People mature as they get older??

      Well my parents, now in their 80s, had to come to terms with having a gay son and forming a relationship with his partner. They have done so brilliantly and the whole extended family will be celebrating my brother’s marriage to his partner next year. This is the healthy response.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 5:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dick Mills
      Dick Mills

      @Andrew: I try so diligently to ignore them, but the voices in my head can be unrelenting in their entreaty to scream back at the loonies. But I will try.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 5:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jason_M
      Jason_M

      Anybody with actual info on teens who think they’re gay but are not?

      Jul 27, 2009 at 5:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • galefan2004
      galefan2004

      In all fairness, that man on the cross said that all you ever had to do was believe on him and you would be saved from sin. He never told you that you had to brain wash yourself to stay away from “sin”. That is what the church has turned religion into over the years. The reason for that is that you can’t sell Jesus the way you can sell “turn or burn”. As world conditions get worse you can’t tell “turn or burn” to people that can’t imagine it worse than they already have it, so you have to start selling Jesus, but its still second best. Churches are multi-million (sometimes multi-billion like with the catholic church) dollar business, and they make their money by selling what sells best (false hope and lies versus punishment for being yourself).

      Jul 27, 2009 at 5:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • galefan2004
      galefan2004

      @youcanthandlethetruth: Alcoholism is a disease. Homosexuality is not. HUGE DIFFERENCE!

      Jul 27, 2009 at 5:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • galefan2004
      galefan2004

      @youcanthandlethetruth: I’m sorry, but sky daddy doesn’t decide the norm. Science does. Unless you want to stop going to the doctor’s when you are sick and just hope that your prayer will fix any illness that will kill any member of your family or yourself then you have no right to put religion before science. We are perfectly normal according to science.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 5:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • galefan2004
      galefan2004

      @youcanthandlethetruth: Homosexuality is NOT an abnormal behavioral pattern. It is normal for those that were destined to be homosexual. It would be abnormal for homosexuals to try to be heterosexual just as it would be abnormal for heterosexuals to try to be homosexual. When you can convince me that you would have no problem banging and falling in love with a dude because its just that fucking easy then I’ll consider being with a chick (who the fuck am I kidding…no I wont). Maybe you should base your stupidity on something other than your faith. Every main stream scientific study proves just how stupid you really are in your limited understanding of the topic at hand.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 5:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • galefan2004
      galefan2004

      @youcanthandlethetruth: Where the fuck to do you get you statistics? Fred Phelps and the “holy” trinity? The vast majority of people consider homosexuality to be perfectly acceptable. More people are accepting of good honest people regardless of their homosexuality than are accepting of people that want to lie and spread bigoted propaganda simply for the desire of trying to make themselves look better than everyone else. In short, more people love me than love you, deal with it.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 5:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @galefan2004: Wrong.

      “Science” has never said homosexuality is perfectly normal. The APA removed homosexuality from the DSM saying it was no longer to be considered a mental illness. But that doesn’t make you perfectly normal either.

      They did so based on a vote, no scientific evidence was ever offered. And many eminent psychologists disagreed with the decision.

      But the fact that so many homosexuals want to give up homosexuality, and so many succeed in doing so, undermines all the negative doomsayers on here.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 5:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @galefan2004: “destined to be homosexual”?

      Are pedophiles destined to be pedophiles?

      Jul 27, 2009 at 5:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • galefan2004
      galefan2004

      @youcanthandlethetruth: REALLY? I think someone is lying out their ass here. The only two times that American people had a chance to vote against homosexual marriage were when GW tried to pass two amendments and they both failed. They both failed huge. Hell, the second done didn’t even need Democrats involvement to make it fail because the Republicans voted it down. I already knew you didn’t know anything about science, but I am not learning you don’t know shit about politics or history either. I guess you just use your faith to guide you like some kind of moron beacon of light.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 5:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @galefan2004: galefan – You sound like yet another angry, hateful, intolerant, christiophobic homosexual bigot!

      Why is it you homosexuals demand tolerance from others but are so intolerant yourselves??

      Jul 27, 2009 at 5:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @galefan2004: galefan in your anger and ignorance you are overlooking all the states that have voted to amend their Constitutions to protect marriage against violation by homosexuals.

      I repeat, Americans have voted against homosexual marriage every single change they have had.

      No exceptions.

      Now wipe that egg off your face.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 5:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • galefan2004
      galefan2004

      @youcanthandlethetruth: Please don’t talk about shit you have no fucking clue about. Just admit that you don’t know shit about history and be done with it. Those hippies grew up to be liberal Democrats. They never changed their stances on pretty much anything. Many of them are still involved with trying to make this world a better place. Unfortunately, the hippie movement was not very wide spread but the christer movement was dominate. Its those christers that grew up to be hate mongers such as as yourself.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 5:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • galefan2004
      galefan2004

      @youcanthandlethetruth: Do you have data to back that up or do you pull it out of your own ass like all your other warped views on every subject but religious intolerance? Oh, and don’t try to use Exodus international literature as a selling point here because not only have those studies been debunked over and over but the “scientist” that come up with those figures aren’t even recognized by the true scientists in the field.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 6:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @galefan2004: So do you deny that Americans have voted against homosexual marriage every chance they have had?

      If so give me just one example of Americans voting FOR homosexual marriage.

      And if you’re so tolerant why do you describe Christians as “christers”?

      Do you think homosexuals have a monopoly on being offended?

      Jul 27, 2009 at 6:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • galefan2004
      galefan2004

      @Jaroslaw: They are here to provide comic relief. Seriously, if you don’t know how to fight a bigot on the internet you probably won’t be able to fight one in real life either. We need to embrace the opportunity to fight bigots where ever and when ever we possibly can.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 6:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • galefan2004
      galefan2004

      @youcanthandlethetruth: You are making the claim “that so many homosexuals want to give it up and succeed in doing so” with absolutely NO evidence. You are making a false claim. The majority of the science community (you know those that haven’t lost their license) have documented that reparative therapy DOES NOT work. You should really do some research on the subject instead of spouting out what you are told by organizations that have no fucking clue what a scientific method even is or what a qualified researcher even does.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 6:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • galefan2004
      galefan2004

      @youcanthandlethetruth: Pedophilia is not a sexual orientation. It is an illness. It occurs for completely different reasons than homosexuality. You look like a moron when you try to compare the two. There is NO comparison.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 6:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ted C.
      Ted C.

      The difference between alcoholism and homosexuality is that alcoholism makes you miserable and homosexuality does not.

      Also, people in AA have their lives changed for the better. People in Exodus are miserable, whether they admit it or not.

      (Seriously, look at that guy. His glassy-eyed expression isn’t fooling anyone.)

      Jul 27, 2009 at 6:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • galefan2004
      galefan2004

      @youcanthandlethetruth: I give what I get bitch boy. If you want to spew off hate then I will deal with you by hate. If you want to spew off hate in person I’ll deal with you by blowing your fucking head off. Oh yeah, some of us are tired of being nice, and some of us are not the person to fuck with in public. I would gladly go to jail for killing a christer hatemonger.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 6:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • galefan2004
      galefan2004

      @youcanthandlethetruth: You said AMERICANS. That means Americans. Just because some states have amendments doesn’t mean that it was an American effort. You should amend yourself to say that certain states have voted against gay marriage. However, what you fail to realize is that the political climate in most of those states has changed so much that Ohio is actually making leaps and bounds in gay rights and will have a non-discrimination act before the end of next year.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 6:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • galefan2004
      galefan2004

      @youcanthandlethetruth: I describe anyone that would allow their faith (the inability to think for themselves) justify judging an entire group of people. That intolerance is earned by the christers. I don’t give out intolerance that isn’t earned. I’m not you.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 6:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SM
      SM

      @youcanthandlethetruth:

      Can you show me the campaigns were LGBT people are spending millions of dollars trying to strip Church goers their rights and discriminate against them?

      Didn’t think so.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 6:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @galefan2004: I meant what I said.

      Americans have voted against homosexual marriage every single chance they had.

      NO EXCEPTIONS!

      I wasn’t talking about employment discrimination where I agree homosexuals should not suffer any more than anyone else.

      At the same time it’s easy to see situations where hiring a homosexual may not serve to represent the employer in the manner they wish to be represented.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 6:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @galefan2004: Hey tough guy, calm down, don’t get yer knickers in a knot.

      You already look hateful, intolerant and bigoted enough without issuing any death threats.

      If I was homosexual I could probably sue you under hate crime laws, but us normal people don’t have those “special protections”.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 6:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • BobP
      BobP

      @youcanthandlethetruth: You: Why are you on this website? Clearly, you are antagonizing the readers to further your agenda. Gay men have been dealing with lying religious types all our lives. We are amazed when a gay man falls for this type of “fix” , because we know that we are born with our sexuality and it’s not up for grabs.
      Take you ridiculous statements to a right wing web site where they (more christians, no doubt)will be happy to share your hatred of gays.
      The new right wing mantra “why aren’t gays tolerant of our hatred” is utter nonsense. It was old last year. Find something substantial to say or just shut up. We are done being tolerant of other people hatred of us. Get used to it.
      Your statement abouts teen agers is completely fabricated, as are all the other ex-gays.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 6:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SM
      SM

      @youcanthandlethetruth:

      See…here is where you all lost your pathetic fight LONG ago. You AGREED LGBT should get some rights…just not all the freedoms everyone else has.

      You were finished the day you agreed to that in the United States.

      Civil rights issues always win…always. :)

      Jul 27, 2009 at 6:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @SM: You already have all the same rights as normal people, and a lot of additional privileges due to being considered a “protected class”.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 6:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @BobP: Bob why are you so afradi of listening to counter arguments?

      Do you just want to hang out with a load of homosexuals and agree with each other all day?

      That will only keep you further from the truth and help perpetuate the delusion of homosexuality.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 6:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jim
      Jim

      @youcanthandlethetruth:

      >>You already look hateful, intolerant and bigoted enough without issuing any death threats.

      Check the mirror a-hole – your bigotry and hatered are shining through clear as a bell.

      >>If I was homosexual I could probably sue you under hate crime laws, but us normal people don’t have those “special protections”.

      You are so far from “Normal” you can’t even see normal from where you are.

      Go crawl back under the rock you oozed out of before someone squishes you like the errant cockroach you are.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 6:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @BobP: Bob why are you so resistant to accepting the truth, that many former homosexuals have now rehabilitated, particularly teenagers.

      There is not a single shred of scientific evidence that homosexuals are ‘born that way”.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 6:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @Jim: Jim you need to take one of your pills. You’re not helping your cause.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 6:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill S
      Bill S

      I reserve the right to call anyone who equates me with a pedophile a complete asshole. Is that “intolerant” of me, not to put up with an obvious insult?
      And there is no hate crimes law in this country that would allow you to sue someone for saying mean things to you on the internet, dumbass.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 6:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • galefan2004
      galefan2004

      @youcanthandlethetruth: What is your honest opinion of homosexuals? Do you seriously think we are all overly promiscuous flaming queens? You know what, I’m willing to bet that my employer benefits greatly from me because I do my job to the best of my ability (which thankfully is much higher than most people) and I don’t even discuss my homosexuality at work. It never comes up. You can’t look at me at work and just think I’m gay. It just doesn’t work that way. Your statement about employers not being represented in the manner they wish to be represented is bogus unless you are worried about employers not being represented as bigots. Its all well and fine to me if an employer wants to be represented as a bigot. Just don’t market to the gay community while you want that representation though.

      @youcanthandlethetruth: I didn’t issue any death threats. Come on my property just one time with your hate mongering attitude and see what the fuck happens. Its not a threat. Its a promise. You walk on my property talking about how you hate gays I’m going to blow your fucking head off and not think twice. That is how I deal with scum like you.

      You know nothing about politics. Hate crimes law applies to criminal action. Threats of violence are protected under freedom of speech. I have the right to tell you I’m going to blow your fucking head off as long as I don’t act on it. Now, if I acted on it or made any action to actually act on it it would be assault. I have given up on you. You know nothing and it shows.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 6:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • galefan2004
      galefan2004

      @youcanthandlethetruth: You keep making this claim that so many homosexuals have rehabilitated yet their is not a single shred of evidence that this is actually the case. Maybe you just know what rehabilitation is. Rehabilitation is to make whole. Show me proof (outside of the stupidity that is Exodus ministries that real mental health professionals have to work years to undo the damage that they are capable of) that homosexuals can be rehabilitated. It simply is not the case. Its been proven time and time again that it is not the case. You can’t prove that it is the case. Its funny you bring up proof in the same post you spout off about a totally flawed argument.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 6:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SM
      SM

      @youcanthandlethetruth:

      The Bible specifically says Thou Shall Not Kill.

      Nothing has caused more wars, death, and discrimination on this planet than Organized Reigion.

      25,000 children die each day of starvation and you are worried about gay marriage on a chat board? I bet God is proud of you!

      God will judge you and how you treat people too. good luck with that~

      Jul 27, 2009 at 6:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • galefan2004
      galefan2004

      @Bill S: Besides, I never said anything mean. I just told you how I handle christer assholes that come on my property and insult me for being who I am. Of course, in Ohio, you have the right to remove anyone from your property by force.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 6:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tavdy79
      tavdy79

      Alan Chambers is repressed? He’s a bigger flamer than Bruno!

      Jul 27, 2009 at 6:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • dontblamemeivotedforhillary
      dontblamemeivotedforhillary

      Are all these comments about how Gay Photoshop is? I never read others’ opinions…

      Jul 27, 2009 at 6:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • alan
      alan

      @youcanthandlethetruth:

      yes, entering a minority group with limited rights and experiencing all that hatred sounds like a great choice!

      Jul 27, 2009 at 6:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      Chrissakes, it’s fun to argue with cranks like youcan because his “reasoning” is simple a child can refute it.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 6:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • BobP
      BobP

      @youcanthandlethetruth: There are NO former homosexuals. There are only liars. You cannot change who you are attracted to. You can ACT like your are heterosexual to appease your religious community, but it is a lie. It will always be a lie. If you have fallen into that trap, that is your problem. Face up to who you really are. When you are honest, all the bullshit falls away. Give it a try. You certainly don’t sound like a well adjusted. happy person. You sound like a hateful person who is trying to get us to agree with some horrible mistake YOU HAVE MADE. I feel sorry for you and all the others like you. You will realize one day, that the people you try to please don’t care about you at all. Unfortunately, it will be too late. And if you’re bitter now…
      Gay people certainly are born that way. I happen to be an expert.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 6:59 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • BobP
      BobP

      @youcanthandlethetruth: Let’s see some proof. You are nothing but empty statements. You have nothing to back up one word you say. Typical right wing liar.
      If you have no proof, don’t bother to respond.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 7:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Marquis
      Marquis

      @TANK: Could it be anymore obvious that you’re a single, lonely, bitter old queen.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 8:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @BobP: You have absolutely no way of substantiating that assertion.

      Don’t judge other people by your own weak-will and lack of moral fortitude.

      You are just a homosexual bigot, completely intolerant towards people you are afraid to believe.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 8:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @Marquis:

      That’s just terrible…especially coming from a blowup doll.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 8:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @alan: How are you rrights “limited”?

      Au contraire you have all the same rights as normal people and a stack of “special protections” on top

      Jul 27, 2009 at 8:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @Marquis: Ya got that right. That poor old queen is burned out.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 8:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Marquis
      Marquis

      @TANK: Now that’s rich coming from someone named Tank! You also sound oddly familiar with blowup dolls? Hmmm…

      Jul 27, 2009 at 8:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @Marquis:

      Oh snapz! LOL! Oy gevalt. You and your friend youcan recycle the same old stupid rhetoric ad nauseam. Same retarded memes and invalid and unsound arguments people that can be easily done away with.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 8:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @youcanthandlethetruth:

      For example. No, most gay and lesbian americans don’t have the potential to marry someone whom they love and are sexually attracted to, whereas heterosexuals do have that potential, and if acted upon, get all of the benefits that we’re excluded from. That’s a civil right, at least according to the opinion in loving v. virginia (that marriage is a civil right).

      Jul 27, 2009 at 8:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Marquis
      Marquis

      @TANK: You just confirmed how biter you are, poor thing.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 8:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Marquis
      Marquis

      @TANK: Go ahead, make fun of the typo.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 8:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      Loving v Virginia ruled marriage – between one man and one woman -is a right. It said nothing about redefining marriage for homosexuals.

      And nobody has the automatic right to marry someone they love, even if they feel sexually attracted to them.

      That’s true of siblings, parent/child relationships, adult/minor relationships or me and my neighbour’s wife.

      You recycle the same old disingenuous and stupid rhetoric ad nauseam.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 8:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shawn
      Shawn

      @TANK: You’re retarded.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 8:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @Shawn:

      ANd you’re antigay bigot, asshole. LOL!

      Jul 27, 2009 at 8:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Paul
      Paul

      @Shawn: Well, he’s (Tank) socially retarded anyway.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 8:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @youcanthandlethetruth:

      No, stupid. It affirmed that marriage is a civil right. Read the majority opinion. It’s clearly stated. According to the SC, marriage is a RIGHT, not a privilege.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 8:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @Marquis:

      Yeah, bigoted puddles of snot like you tend to make for hostile conversations.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 8:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason

      Alan Chambers is possibly bisexual in orientation. Through religious influences, he has conditioned himself to reject the homosexual act. This is nothing new nor is it particularly earth-shattering.

      History is littered with men who are bisexual in orientation but who have rejected the homosexual portion of their orientation for reasons of religion, peer pressure etc etc. Nothing new here, guys.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 8:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • BobP
      BobP

      @youcanthandlethetruth: You didn’t read my post carefully. I said if you have no proof regarding your teenage statement, do not reply. Once again, your statements are empty lies. You have nothing to back it up. You are nothing more than a liar, like all right wingers.
      I think it’s time you go jerk off to gay porn while your wife prepares dinner for you and the kids.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 8:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • strictmachine
      strictmachine

      omg. why do trolls spend hours and hours on this site? do they think we are going to come round to their way of thinking. i have no beef with moderate people of any religion but wtf

      Jul 27, 2009 at 9:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @Andrew:

      What’s the matter, can’t reply to my comment? Have to deflect to something not originally posted?

      That his MO, Andrew. If you’ve noticed, he never replies to anyone’s comment. He always deflects to something else.

      He’s a fraud and disingenuous liar.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 9:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @youcanthandlethetruth:

      Sweet Jesus. You have a martyr complex too.

      When can we look forward to your crucifixion?

      Jul 27, 2009 at 9:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andrew
      Andrew

      @schlukitz:
      Precisely why we should completely ignore him — he is wasting everyone’s time and energy.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 10:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JSP
      JSP

      Um, there is no such thing as a creator.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 10:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • billyboy
      billyboy

      HA. Now he’s Jesus’ sub. Good ol’ S&M.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 10:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • cricket
      cricket

      I attempted to read through all the comments, as to be caught up.. but as i got to #40 I realized there wasn’t much of a conversation going on. Alan Chambers is clearly not an EX-Gay, nor is he currently a heterosexual. This is obviously a delicate subject for many people and it’d be quite the miracle if we solved it here on queerty. Alan Chambers is a bi-sexual. Unfortunately bisexuality is not taken as a serious sexual identity or orientation. Neither the gay community or the straight community can really wrap their heads around this.. but I can assure you, It happens. The man says he is happy living with his wife and kids. It’s possible he truly is. It’s also possible that he was just as happy sucking dick, but felt too guilty about the “sin”.. in any event, he has made a choice to pursue his life in this way…. with his wife. maybe he fell in love with his wife and at the same time will be craving men forever? I am in agreement that his choice to spread his decision in a way that minimizes the gay experience is inappropriate. I support exploration and happiness.

      Jul 27, 2009 at 11:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dale
      Dale

      “And this November 4 more states will be voting to amend their Constitutions to protect marriage…”

      Against christian adulterers Vitter, Craig, Ensign, Bakker, Bauer, Bunn, Burkama, oh hell, here’s the list of “good, loving christians…”

      http://www.theopalinism.com/blog/2009/06/27/grand-ol-party-i-dont-think-this-is-what-they-meant/#comment-289

      We absolutely have to protect marriage, don’t we?

      Jul 28, 2009 at 12:42 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B.
      B.

      youcanthandlethetruth wrote, “The fact is there are countless teenagers who thought they were homosexual but it turns out they were not. Why on earth shouldn’t he try to save these young people from a lifetime of stigma and abnormality?”

      Mostly this troll should be ignored, but this statement perhaps deserves an answer. They shouldn’t try to “save” these young people for the same reason that you have to do the problem sets to learn certain subject (e.g., mathematics, physics, or chemistry). Some things are not really learned unless you gain experience.

      A young straight teen (e.g., 13 years old) may think he is gay because he isn’t attracted to women like his peers are, not realizing that he is the youngest kid in the class and it will take six months before he catches up physiologically. Sometimes the best thing to do is to let them learn on their own – you just want to make sure they don’t seriously hurt themselves in the process.

      Finally, there is the obvious point – the way to eliminate a “lifetime of stigma” is to eliminate stigmas that are merely in the mind of the beholder by helping people to get over their prejudices.

      Jul 28, 2009 at 2:15 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daniel
      Daniel

      The interesting thing is… if Alan gets amnesia from an accident, he will return to being gay because his true nature, who he is really meant to be, will resurface.

      It is ridiculous that people don’t believe in Zeus, or Odin, or Athena, or Ra, or Horace, or any of a thousand gods, goddesses, demi-goddesses, and demi-gods created throughout history. But they completely buy into one or two. Seriously?! You can grasp the fictional nature of Santa Claus but not Jesus? You can grasp that the Tooth Fairy and the Boogeyman are fictional, but not Allah and the Christian-version of God? It doesn’t seem just a little strange that the bible contains no human traits about Jesus (no eye color, height, favorite song, favorite food, favorite time of day, hair color, pets, favorite outfit, etc.) – it is what is NOT found in the bible that shows it is a fictionalized account. It was after all allegedly written and compiled 60 years after the supposed death of the lead character. And you do realize that no ancient scrolls exist about the bible/koran/torah. The oldest “old” testament scrolls in existence date only to 800 AD.

      The stories of the bible were written by gay haters – very human gay haters – religious leaders who wanted their tribes to breed to add to the political and financial power of religious leaders. Women have always been considered breeding stock by a patriachal system – even Jesus called followers sheep. It was the writers inside joke about the entire thing.

      Jul 28, 2009 at 2:30 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @Daniel:

      It’s a lot like this…

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0A4_bwCaX0&feature=player_embedded

      and this

      Jul 28, 2009 at 3:06 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Marcus
      Marcus

      Lame, uninteresting, Christian troll is lame and uninteresting.

      Jul 28, 2009 at 4:41 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daniel
      Daniel

      @TANK: Those videos are hilarious and insightful.

      Jul 28, 2009 at 6:34 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jwbcubed
      jwbcubed

      Seriously,
      I read all the comments and the people that hate us are gonna hate us. youcanthandlethetruth is what is left of the puritanical society our country started with. If you subtract the crazy beginning of our country, 86 it in every form, you get a person without any preconceived notions of what everyone ELSE should be doing. Puritanical rubble exists in our culture every where you step from the moment you start school until the final eulogy. Intolerant people will always be a part of our culture. Have you ever checked out how intolerant any of those societies were? It was nothing nice. Being gay, I knew I was never going to win any popularity contests, so polls and people’s attitudes mean little to me. I think I should have the same rights as every other American, simply because I’m an American. It’s not a matter of wrong or right, or even a matter of what society’s “norms” are, I deserve to have the same rights as everyone else. Period. I am not less than my neighbor, I follow the laws of the land and fulfill my contract as a citizen of this country, so I deserve the same rights as everyone else.

      Jul 28, 2009 at 7:25 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      Galefan2004 – yes, I know how to fight bigots – I’ve gotten into debates at work, a place fraught with peril, since it is my livelihood, I put up a Gay history bulletin board (the first ever)and I’ve written articles which have been published.

      And for all the back & forths, it doesn’t look like you’ve convinced “youcanthandle the truth” at all. Which is why Andrew & I suggested just ignoring them.

      And they may provide comic relief & occasional sparring may be interesting but HOW did they find their way here in the first place and why (from their point of view) are they here?

      As Bob P said, 25,000 children die of starvation every day and so many are worried about behavior between consenting adults? While we’re at it, Jesus said nary a word about homosexuality, the Bible prohibits the charging of interest, gossip is a huge sin, as to the mental illness thing in 1973 – there is a huge history there that YCHTT isn’t telling – see I DO know how to engage & fight but again…… WHY bother? They don’t listen and don’t think. You haven’t gotten anywhere.

      Jul 28, 2009 at 8:44 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • kevin57
      kevin57

      I love the claim of folks like youcanthandlethetruth that there are “millions” of “rehabilitated” homosexuals. They cannot point to a single peer-reviewed study that bears this out.

      Jul 28, 2009 at 8:45 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      Daniel – I didn’t notice your Bible column – yes, there is a lot of superstition and hate in there. But just to debunk one of your ideas – life was a very fragile thing in the ancient world (and even now in some places many children don’t live past 4 or 5) It was very commone for women to die in childbirth. So, Absolutely reproduction was encouraged and especially so in the Jewish world as they were a minority everywhere they went. So that is not a big mystery or conspiracy or whatever (false) negative connotation you choose to give it.

      As to the human traits of Jesus – we are talking about God in the flesh, his height or eye color would seem minor points wouldn’t they? However, there is a verse that says his hair was like wool (meaning he probably didn’t look European with blue eyes like so many of those paintings from the 1940’s still found in fundamentalist churches.

      Jul 28, 2009 at 8:52 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      #159 this is why I gave up debating with these people. It is obvious on its face that anyone can try to control BEHAVIOR not their feelings. (which was already said, I know). And yet YCHTT keeps on blathering.

      For those who don’t know, there is a fascinating pheromone study from Sweden where Gay men’s brains respond like straight women’s to the pheromones in male sweat. Fresh sweat has no smell, (it smells AFTER bacteria have had a chance to work on it – I point this out so the argument can’t be made into a “choice” thing) – and the brain scans revealed activity (responses). I have mentioned this to my relgious co-workers and every single one said they would get back to me and of course none of them have.

      Jul 28, 2009 at 8:56 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andrew
      Andrew

      @Jaroslaw:
      Like you say, no sense debating folks like YCHTT — they have no interest in actual debate of issues. I really believe that they do what they do — lurk sites like this — simply to distract and disrupt. In the end, one person like YCHTT has the ability to distract ten or twenty Qty readers for hours simply by injecting his inane comments and watching us spin and recoil.

      We naturally want to confront and challenge him, but it’s truly a waste of time and energy. HE KNOWS THIS and GETS OFF on the fact that he wastes our time. Worse than that, he knows that his comments inject really bad energy into this site and the people who visit for valid reasons. Every time we see/hear/read bullshit like his, we take a bit of it away with us — regardless of how strong or informed or self-confident we are. It’s the daily drumbeat of anti-gay bullshit that wears people down — you just don’t notice it because the effect is somewhat subtle and you think you’ve “won” the argument. Truth is, you’ve not “won” anything — you’ve just wasted a few minutes or an hour of your life processing/challenging very negative energy from someone who wouldn’t pull you from a burning building.

      Don’t mean to sound all “new agey” here. But I’ve spent a lot of time fighting these idiots, trying to teach/enlighten, even trying to “turn the other cheek.” It doesn’t work. They know they can’t win “on the merits” so they resort to distraction and evasion. And, importantly, they succeed in sucking a little joy out of everyones’ lives. Ignoring them is the only way to “win.”

      Jul 28, 2009 at 9:34 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      #162 Andrew – love your post above! So true…you missed one thing though- perhaps it is a small fraction of our religious opponents, (very vocal and noticeable thought) but nonetheless it still amazes me when they LIE about us in the name of Jesus!

      IE- it isn’t just evasion & distraction but often outright lies. Look up some of the stuff the Anita Bryant led campaign said about Gay people when they repealed the Dade County human rights ordinance. Or my favorite “no special rights.” For the life of me, I can’t figure out how equal rights become special rights……

      Jul 28, 2009 at 9:41 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • douglas in canada
      douglas in canada

      Abnormal = not normal, not matching the standard norms. In my family, everyone is over 6’0 – except me. At 5’7, I’m abnormal. I guess I should go out and shoot myself, so the family won’t have the stigma of an abnormal child.

      Natural = according to the way you’re born. By nature, I am gay. The Bible’s command is to refrain from unnatural acts, so I refrain from sleeping with women.

      I know gay people who have spent hours, no, YEARS, trying to “turn straight” – years and, in one case, even thousands of dollars. At the end, their discovery was that they can’t be changed. The one thing that is different is: they don’t take their sexuality for granted anymore. They are sad for the time they spent trying to deny their true identities, when they could have been living more productive and happy lives.

      A lot of organized religions are against SEXUALITY – PERIOD. Whether it’s homo- or hetero-. Catholic celibacy is one of the most visible examples. Even in my evangelical upbringing, being single meant you had more time to “live your life for God.” In the end, it was the fear that if we didn’t live good enough lives, we would burn in hell.

      Just take a look – these religions won’t even discuss the healthy aspects of hetero sex. That’s because they’re so afraid that pleasure will take them away from God. And that’s odd, because although they TALK as if this God is merciful, their behaviour tells me that they are really afraid off his anger and judgment and ultimate punishment – mercy be damned.

      I find it odd that in the debate about who should get married, the hetero-conservatives haven’t fought againt the rights of people who don’t live according to their own lifestyle – people who listen to “Evil Rock Music,” who do drugs, who sleep around, who beat their children, who lie, cheat, and steal, who live in the wrong part of town, who marry outside their own race or ethnic group. Remember when getting a divorce meant you were cut off from your community?

      Sometimes, hateful actions are a result of a group seeing that it and it’s culture are dying. In an attempt to keep it alive, they struggle, and end up damaging so much of what is around them.

      Let PEACE and LOVE guide us all.

      Jul 28, 2009 at 9:48 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      Douglas – good points all – but how about the (now majority or very close to it) straight people who don’t marry at all? The fact this is so seldom mentioned amazes me.

      I watched a really cool DVD about Gavin Newsom & the SF marriage equality struggle – at least three times the crazy religious opponents mentioned “it takes a man and woman to make a baby.” (AS IF ANYONE PAST THIRD GRADE doesn’t know this!)

      OK, so if that is so important, then there should be a law requiring proof of fertility before a marriage license is granted AND these religious nuts that are so concerned about “saving” society should also ban divorce and/or remarriage. The fact they DON’T do either of those things is proof beyond dispute the motive is purely anti-Gay bigotry.

      Jul 28, 2009 at 9:58 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • douglas in canada
      douglas in canada

      JAROSLAW – thanks for the addition. I forgot all about that.

      I also like to point out occasionally that every single person in prison and every single murderer is the product of heterosexual sex.

      Jul 28, 2009 at 10:18 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andrew
      Andrew

      [img]http://www.mikhaela.net/weblog/uploaded_images/bp070215_haggard-704649.gif[/img]

      Jul 28, 2009 at 10:27 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      Douglas – elaborate on your “every person in prison & every single murderer” is a product of hetero sex. Not sure I get the point of saying that.

      Jul 28, 2009 at 10:33 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andrew
      Andrew

      @Jaroslaw:
      Re #163: Agreed. The lies are extremely frustrating too. Every fiber of my being moves me to challenge them, yet I know they will never budge.

      There’s a parallel to present-day politics: Regardless of the truth, say what you want over and over and over again and, with time, it becomes background. See, e.g., John Kerry is not a war hero but a liar who faked his injuries… Or, “gay rights are special rights”… Or, “the U.S. is a Christian nation”… etc. It’s sad really that we’ve (broadly speaking) lost much of our anchor to integrity and community. What’s emerged is a warped semi-fascist pseudo-Christian right-wing evangelical neo-Puritan faux-populism. And people are eating it up. God save us.

      [do I sound bitter? lol I'm not, really, just a tad worn down by the bullshit]

      Jul 28, 2009 at 10:54 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ron
      Ron

      @TANK: Tank wrote: “Yeah, bigoted puddles of snot like you tend to make for hostile conversations.”

      Pot meet kettle…

      Reading your posts “Tank” really shows you have an ugly soul. You must enjoy your miserable life. Have fun with that!

      Jul 28, 2009 at 10:56 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      #169 well, it depends on the forum. If it is just you and a christee crazee, don’t argue. But if others are listening, there may be a chance you can give THEM something to think about.

      You reminded me of a great one – “christian nation” – George Washington or his administration wrote a letter to an African country in 1780’s “that in no way are we a christian nation”. HOW my christee crazee coworkers can twist that to suit their religious beliefs and still insist we ARE a christian nation, I don’t know. Jesus is NOT in the Constitution. We have Jefferson’s letter to the Danbury Baptists. and on and on.

      This is not to belittle anyone’s religion (except those that just refuse to even SEE there is another side, not forcing them to agree with it…) but this country was founded on religious freedom. Europe was torn apart by religious sectarianism and insitutionalism and the Founding Fathers did not want that here. All of their writings reflect this.

      Jul 28, 2009 at 11:25 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @kevin57:

      Well, that is the way it it is with people like youcanthandlethetruth. They don’t need no stinkin’ proof! LOL

      They take everything on faith, so they expect everyone else to take everything on faith too.

      Jul 28, 2009 at 11:57 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andrew
      Andrew

      @Jaroslaw:
      True true. By expounding on the “Christian nation” myth, you’ve pointed to one of the elements of American society I find most frustrating: Over the past two decades or so, a distorted populism has developed having a strong anti-intellectual component. We see and hear it in cable t.v., radio, websites, and everyday conversation. Being educated and pursuing excellence has become “elitist.” Having a poor knowledge of history is something to almost boast about. Forget pursuing language, the arts, philosophy… those are merely games for the “liberal elite.” And gods forbid one should travel the world! As a result, most people have close to zero understanding of our country’s history, constitution, political philosophy, etc. We are the “Christian nation” because enough talking-heads say it on t.v. and radio and in dreadfully written, but widely read, books by the likes of Anne Coulter and Sean Hannity. So… it’s become all about “winning” at any cost. Being poorly informed matters less and less… Why bother being informed when what you say is trumped by how you say it. Why bother with context when sound-bites rule the day.

      I’ve had (and will continue) to have great conversations and debates with people of good will but opposing views. And that includes many “people of faith.” But I no longer engage people who come to the table with nothing other than talking-points to shout and mistakes of history to spout. (hey, that rhymes) :o

      Jul 28, 2009 at 12:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • nikko
      nikko

      YOUCANTSTANTTHETRUTH, it’s you who can’t stand the truth that homosexuality cannot be changed, Jesus or not. We all know this. You spew your arrogant, brainwashed lies because you think we’re having fun being rebellious, but you know thats a pile of BS. I am offended that you lump homosexuality,alcoholism and pedophilia in the same group. Truly your mad and obnoxious. Lying christian liar.

      Jul 28, 2009 at 12:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      OK Andrew, lets have the last laugh! You sound like a great guy – Let’s go to Iowa and get married!

      Jul 28, 2009 at 12:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • UGH
      UGH

      @Ron: You’re right! lol
      I know Tank and he is a miserable person. It would help if he lost some weight.

      Jul 28, 2009 at 1:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andrew
      Andrew

      @Jaroslaw:
      I say “yes”! Plus, I was starting to depress even myself… ;)

      Jul 28, 2009 at 1:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      #176 – UGH since you say you know him: what happened with TANK? I occasionally get replies on old posts and I re-read some of them – when he first starting posting here he wasn’t all nasty all the time. Which is not to say I don’t agree with him a lot because I do, just curious.

      Jul 28, 2009 at 2:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      Andrew – so what about children, the honeymoon etc? Long or short engagement?

      Jul 28, 2009 at 2:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      PS – so glad you said “YES”

      Jul 28, 2009 at 2:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @UGH:

      LOL! No, you don’t know me. Trust.

      Jul 28, 2009 at 2:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @Ron:

      Whatever. I’m not defending antigay crackpots like the person I was responding to. See, I don’t agree with them.

      Jul 28, 2009 at 2:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      As to the whole “soul” deal, there’s no such thing. If you think I have an “ugly” personality or am bitter…I don’t take myself seriously enough for those things.

      Jul 28, 2009 at 2:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @Jaroslaw:

      Jesus, if jesus existed (which I strongly doubt–there were a bunch of jesus-like individuals walking around preaching salvation, etc…and these were pieced together in a composite) he was a jew. He was a jew advocating reform judaism.

      Secondly, the theory that anything that interfered with reproduction was stigmatized (like homosexual sex) doesn’t hold water. As plenty of things that did not lead to reproduction in the ancient world weren’t stigmatized by many societies (including homosexual sex). The jews are one very big reason why christians have a hangup about sex and sexuality–in fact, why muslims do, too. Christianity is an offshoot of judaism and borrows a lot from the torah. But if you want the truth, the misogyny found in that document did NOT come from wanting more kids (which would and did happen without it), but from religion insinuating itself into one of the bedroom to make itself NEEDED.

      Jul 28, 2009 at 2:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      Tank – read your second paragraph- you start off saying my theory doesn’t hold water and then you prove it yourself that it did. The OT is the story of the Jews and reproduction and male behavior was a big deal. Notice nothing about lesbianism at all. in the OT.

      Jul 28, 2009 at 3:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @Jaroslaw:

      How did I prove your point that anything that interfered with reproduction was stigmatized in my second paragraph where I stated that throughout the ancient world sexual practices which did not weren’t? How about non-jewish cultures in the ancient world where life was equally hard, and yet sex simply for pleasure was (and still is to this day) the norm?

      Jul 28, 2009 at 3:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @Jaroslaw:

      It is simply religion trying to control people’s lives by interfering with one of the most valued activities, and has nothing to do, really, with reproductive success. And yes, in judaism, tradition and ritual is far more important than the miracles–and, in fact, belief in the truth of judaism. Also, judaism is an extremely male centered culture and religion–just look at its humor (very crude, very crass, and yet very funny). Jewish law itself was invented to control people who, it is now popular to insist, were feral before it was implemented (that’s not true). That the talmudic law was required to keep people for fucking anything that moved (the veritable gunshot in the air).

      But do not for one moment try to justify the attitudes toward homosexuality in the ancient world with interest in reproduction–this, itself, is an ancient meme that was created to hide the real purpose behind the superstitious laws dealing with sex and sexuality–being control of people.

      Jul 28, 2009 at 3:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      Tank – I was responding to Daniel in my post #160 – nowhere do I say that anything that interfered with reproduction was stigmatized. I said reproduction was encouraged in the Jewish religion (it was and still is) and male behavior was the subject of many laws. It has been very thoroughly discussed in many books that I’ve read that Jews were concerned with maleness and since the normal act of a male is to penetrate a female, lesbianism wasn’t considered sex hence none of the Old Testament is concerned with it. It was the male person taking on the female role in being receptive that was the “problem” – many cultures in the ancient world felt the same way – even ones that tolerated and/or encouraged certain forms of homosexual activities.

      Bottom line, pun intended I guess; I have read many many books of hundreds of pages and I haven’t said anything near what you claim that I have. Religion no doubt has aspects of controlling people’s lives, just like our modern day governments, just like all the laws that are passed every day, just like adherents to various dietary, philosophical and spiritual disciplines subject themselves to various rules and laws.

      Byrne Fone wrote a book called Homophobia – 700 or so pages. You might want to read it. Christianity was not always obsessed with homosexuality, even encouraged it. And in this book, Mr. Fone can’t even say what turned the tide with his exhaustive research so I’m glad to know we have a resident expert in you to tell us all the answers.

      Jul 28, 2009 at 3:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @Jaroslaw:

      Anyway, your contention was that homosexuality was discouraged because it didn’t lead to reproduction (in jewish society–which yes, is very male centered and sexist, though not because of a need for reproduction), and life was hard so reproduction was necessary to survival of a group…that’s what you basically stated. I disagree with this for many reasons–not the least of which are the historical counterexamples.

      Jul 28, 2009 at 3:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      People have tried to explain sexism (evo psychologists) through the same mechanisms. Life hard, people died younger, therefore…women property! Idiotic.

      Jul 28, 2009 at 3:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      Tank – at least on this subject, you seem incapable of an intelligent discussion on what I have actually said – you keep saying things I didn’t say. So I will comment no further until you can actually address the points I’ve tried to make.

      Jul 28, 2009 at 4:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      Daniel – I didn’t notice your Bible column – yes, there is a lot of superstition and hate in there. But just to debunk one of your ideas – life was a very fragile thing in the ancient world (and even now in some places many children don’t live past 4 or 5) It was very commone for women to die in childbirth. So, Absolutely reproduction was encouraged and especially so in the Jewish world as they were a minority everywhere they went. So that is not a big mystery or conspiracy or whatever (false) negative connotation you choose to give it.

      what other conclusions can one draw from this, huh?

      Jul 28, 2009 at 4:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andrew
      Andrew

      @Jaroslaw:
      #179: Yes, Marseille first and then sail to Corsica, Long. ;)

      Jul 28, 2009 at 4:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      Goodness Tank – glad to see you can copy and paste. Yes, I said reproduction was encouraged. This does not mean, NOR did I say that homosexuality was stigmatized DUE TO it actions did not result in reproduction. Stigmatized for other reasons, yes, see #188.

      Like I said, read Byrne Fone’s book then get back to me or any other book longer than 20 pages and get back to me.

      Jul 28, 2009 at 4:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      Andrew – is there any way to trade e-mails on here?

      Jul 28, 2009 at 4:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @Jaroslaw:

      Then what exactly was it you were debunking?

      Jul 28, 2009 at 5:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      Um, no. I am not reading byrne fone’s book. I don’t like queer theory. It’s often sloppy jargon laden pseudo scientific. Thanks for the recommend–I checked it out.

      Jul 28, 2009 at 5:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B.
      B.

      Daniel wrote, “The stories of the bible were written by gay haters – very human gay haters – religious leaders who wanted their tribes to breed to add to the political and financial power of religious leaders.”

      This is probably an exaggeration. The prohibition in Leviticus, or example, seems to refer specifically to anal sex, but the wording is a little vague in the original Hebrew: look at http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibh4.htm for a discussion of the difficulties of translating it.

      One complication is that the neighboring pagans had a god named Molech whose temples were staffed with male prostitutes – having sex with them was supposed to increase fertility, crop yields, etc. Some people think the prohibition is really about that (i.e., anal sex between men was associated with pagan religious practices). There’s an explanation of this viewpoint in http://www.ehow.com/how_4511803_properly-translate-leviticus-not-gays.html with some of the historical context. Curiously, lesbians aren’t mentioned at all.

      The bottom line: don’t assume people living 2000 to 4000 years ago share our hangups. They had their own hangups and their own agendas. In particular, the taboos of the tribe were not the same then as today.

      Jul 28, 2009 at 6:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jarvisbearcub
      jarvisbearcub

      Does he realize the contradiction in claiming that self-denial leads to his authentic self?

      Jul 29, 2009 at 7:48 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • douglas in canada
      douglas in canada

      @Jaroslaw: Hi Jaroslaw. What I meant was… When I hear people slam homosexuality, they say it in a way that implies that nothing wrong can come of hetero-sex. So I just point out that all of history’s worst criminals are the product of hetero-sex. I know, it’s a lame point, but that’s it.

      Re: Old Testament ban on man2man sex. My understanding is that God is seen as being at the top of the ladder, then men, then women and animals. For a man to assume the role of the woman was to degrade himself, to make himself less than what God intended. This might explain why a man could own many wives, (or cattle, or sheep, or camels) but a woman could only have one husband. The ownership idea also comes into play in the matter of adultery, because adultery is when someone else steals or violates MY property, i.e. my wife. I don’t have figures, but I wonder if it is only (or at least “mostly”) the woman who is charged with adultery.

      I don’t know if this means that masturbation would be exempt, but in that case, there was also a prohibition that a man’s ‘seed’ couldn’t be spilled on the ground. Again, the understanding of the time was that the man had the seed, and the woman was just a garden plot of sorts, into which the seed must be planted. There was no thought that she contributed anything more than a vacant space.

      Jul 29, 2009 at 10:34 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • douglas in canada
      douglas in canada

      @Andrew and @Jaroslaw — Do you need a flower girl?? You both sound like such nice guys. It would be fun to be at the wedding.

      Jul 29, 2009 at 10:35 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • douglas in canada
      douglas in canada

      Although raised a fundamentalist Christian, I see more and more flaws with it and with religion in general, and I’m trying to explore beyond that. Although I find myself still using Christian language to describe things [mostly because of habit - and that's what is most familiar to me] I have made a conscious decision to limit it, and to not use god-references in non-religioius contexts.

      Therefore, I’ve stopped saying:
      “Oh my God!”
      “For God’s sake!” or “For Christ’s sake!”
      “There, but for the grace of God, go I.” [I never liked that one anyone; sounds way too arrogant.]
      “God willing” or “The Lord willing”
      “Lord Almighty”

      I’m not trying to quit because I don’t want to take “the Lord’s name in vain.” Hell, NO! [Oops, need to delete references to heaven and hell, too - secretary, please take note. lol] But we need to get superstitious religion out of our day-to-day lives. Funny how people talk about being non-religious, then go using all the religious-based vocabulary.

      Jul 29, 2009 at 10:47 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mark
      Mark

      If youcanthandlethetruth is in such opposition to all things homosexual…Why is he reading a primarily gay news blog?

      Just curious.

      Jul 29, 2009 at 10:48 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • strictmachine
      strictmachine

      @Mark: i have no idea? and on so many threads. he must be on here for hours and hours

      Jul 29, 2009 at 11:36 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      #201 & 202- Douglas – maybe give up on religion but don’t give up on God! That is my opinion anyhow. And I agree with what you wrote – fyi masturbation was violating the commandment to be fruitful and multiply AND I think it was violating that commandment to “take” (both matrimonially & sexually) your deceased brother’s wife?

      Thanks for the offer of flower girl too – ! :) I think I’m a pretty nice guy most of the time but that doesn’t seem to count for much past a certain age. Also, As I’ve lamented in the past, Michigan is not a great place to be Gay. I would really like to live in California.

      Jul 29, 2009 at 11:39 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      Okay class, you see for yourself #197 Tank is unwilling to read HISTORY. Byrne Fone’s book is not queer theory. Case closed.

      Jul 29, 2009 at 11:40 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • chris pell
      chris pell

      Alan is a truly sad and pathetic person – how sad he just can’t be the way his/our God made him – homosexual.

      Jul 29, 2009 at 12:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @Mark:
      @strictmachine:

      Probably because he is a latent homosexual in denial.

      He follows the model of people like Rev. Haggard, Senator Craig, et al, perfectly.

      They too were beating the anti-homosexual war drums incessantly to divert any suspicion about their sexuality away from them.

      And, we all know what Shakespeare had to say about that! LOL

      Jul 29, 2009 at 1:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @Jaroslaw:

      It’s queer theory. It’s informed by it. I read the description on amazon.

      Jul 29, 2009 at 2:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @Mark: Just to give you an alternative point of view.

      I know you ultra-tolerant homos would hate to sit here all day wallowing in victimhood and agreeing with each other without considering the views of normal people.

      Jul 29, 2009 at 2:59 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @youcanthandlethetruth:

      You can’t honestly believe that you’re a “normal” person, can you?

      Jul 29, 2009 at 3:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      You’re subpar…below average…mediocre and milque toast…you know, stupid.

      Jul 29, 2009 at 3:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @TANK:

      You are giving youcanthandlethetruth far more credit than he is entitled to. ;o)

      Jul 29, 2009 at 3:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      #209 but you DID NOT READ THE BOOK. I did.

      My offer also included to read ANY OTHER Gay related book longer than 20 pages.

      Jul 29, 2009 at 4:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      I think it’s a riot that you homosexuals are always screaming for tolerance from others yet are so bitter and hateful towards anyone who disagrees with you or takes a principled stand against homosexuality.

      It’s also sad that you stand around pouting and trying to deny the truth about successfully rehabilitated homosexuals who have succeeded where you have failed.

      Jul 29, 2009 at 4:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @Jaroslaw:

      So what? The description from the publisher indicates that it emphasizes strains of queer theory in interpreting history. I have no interest in that.

      Jul 29, 2009 at 4:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      You don’t understand. When I read an artless piece of contemporary literary criticism, or anything that deals with social theories in what has become the repository for all the world’s bad philosophy (cultural anthropology, political science, queer studies, gender studies and english departments)…it hurts my brain. It is so senseless that it doesn’t immediately call forth that description in the reader.

      Jul 29, 2009 at 4:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @youcanthandlethetruth:

      I think it’s a riot that you homosexuals are always screaming for tolerance from others yet are so bitter and hateful towards anyone who disagrees with you or takes a principled stand against homosexuality.

      And I think it is absolutely amazing that you can find so many ways to say essentially the same boring thing, over and over and over…ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzz

      Obviously, originality is not one of your finer points, kiddo! Have you ever tried cracking a book to get some pointers on how to compose really interesting sentences and paragraphs…which all put together, in proper sequence, make for articulate, sensible and informed postings?

      No. The bible does not count!

      Jul 29, 2009 at 4:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @schlukitz: When you homosexuals stop making the same old boring, burned-out, disingenuous whines

      Then I won’t need to repeat the same old corrections.

      BTW that was not a very clever way to avoid answering my point about you homosexuals’ lack of tolerance.

      Jul 29, 2009 at 4:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Adam
      Adam

      I have decided to take a principled stand against thumbtacks. In general, I find staples to be a far better form of fastening, and I’d be willing to bet many people would agree with me. Thumbtacks are just strange, and abnormal. I say we put it to a vote whether or not anyone can ever use thumbtacks again.

      All you thumbtack users, don’t worry. We can teach you our ways. You may miss thumbtacks–their elegant curves and festive colors–but there’s no reason you can’t just stare at your staples and hope they suffice.

      Jul 29, 2009 at 11:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Hollah
      Hollah

      This is sincere. I actually feel sorry for his wife. She knows that he is not truly attracted to her as a woman. Must be tough knowing you are an alternate, and a distant one, at that. Self hate and an unwillingness to accept and embrace who you are results in more than one victim. I hope she overcomes this man’s selfishness and self hatred.

      Jul 30, 2009 at 3:09 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Hollah
      Hollah

      youcanthandlethetruth? I feel sorry for you too. Your rants have proven that you are closeted yourself, clinging to a belief system that you think will help you, even though it won’t, which is proven in your argumentative behavior. Please do not make more victims. If you hate your sexuality so much, go off and live in a cave in the mountains and spare the rest (not us on this site, but your loved ones) any more of your abuse. If you have a wife, she would probably be relieved and have a new found sense of freedom. god bless and hope you find what you are looking for, on your own, with no collateral damage.

      Jul 30, 2009 at 3:17 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      #216 and the synopses of movies on Netflix are from the studio (in other words, they are not written by Netflix reviewers) and may or may not accurately describe the movie in question.

      So? You are passing judgement on a book you haven’t read and you prove my point. 98% of the book is plain old history. I read it, I should know. The point here, in case you forgot, it you act like you know it all, so did this knowledge come to you in a psychic trance or did you actually read something, and if you did read anything what was it? Do you never read anything you disagree with to challenge your world view or do you just like to argue on blog sites?

      Jul 30, 2009 at 8:02 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mark
      Mark

      @youcanthandlethetruth:

      Ah. Good for you!

      @TANK:

      Who wants to be “normal?” Normal is boring and expected! I’d rather be unique!

      ****

      Everyone knows you aren’t going to change youcanthandlethetruth’s opinion or view? Nothing you say or do on this site will change his/her point of view anymore than he can change your’s. So, ummm, why are you arguing with him?

      Jul 30, 2009 at 8:52 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @Hollah: No need to feel sorry for me, I have a wonderful life, wife and family.

      I’m not closeted and don’t hate my sexuality – why do you homosexuals always assume that about people who take a principled stand against your lifestyle choices?

      No need to invent garbage about me just to maintain your own sense of delusion. Remember, you’re the one who’s queer, not me.

      Jul 30, 2009 at 4:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @Mark:

      Can’t that be said of any enterprise, though? My goal is not to change his opinion. It’s to humiliate him.

      Jul 30, 2009 at 4:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @youcanthandlethetruth:

      That’s highly doubtful. A wonderful life? How good can that be? I’m sure your wife will one day be filing that protection from abuse order against you.

      There’s no principle behind your “stand”. You’re trolling a gay blog for no other purpose than to voice bigotry. That doesn’t really speak volumes about how happy you are when you spend large amounts of your time concerned with others. You’re consumed by gay sex and gay relationships. It has no real impact on your life–so it’s a psychological compulsion…like people that flash others in public.

      Jul 30, 2009 at 4:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @TANK: Quite the amateur shrink arncha?

      But as usual you are wrong on all counts.

      I’m not “trolling” anything, just expressing a different opinion based on a principled stand against the homosexual lifestyle.

      I’m not a bigot, unless you consider anyone with strong views to be a bigot. In which case that makes you a bigot too, and most other people.

      And why would you want to spend time on a blog with a bunch of like-minded people just to agree all the time and facilitate each other’s sense of victimhood?

      Jul 30, 2009 at 4:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      YCHTT if you have a wonderful life, wife and kids, well let’s say most people I know in that situation say they don’t have a lot of time. But you find plenty of time to be a blow hard and waste other people’s time.

      It is interesting to note that you approximately say it would be “boring” if you weren’t here and that the rest of us would just be whining about our victimhood.

      A) what an exaggerated sense of importance you have about yourself

      and B) You and your kind are always saying there is no victimhood and when articles like this clearly show there is you refute them, don’t believe them or whatever. Just like Black people said forever in the south how bad it was. And until the documented lynchings, bombings etc. during civil rights era of the 60’s most White americans didn’t think there was a race problem.

      I’ll ask you again – you think Gays have it so good, find a male buddy and walk down the street a few times holding hands and let me know what happens to you. I mean it is a free country, and since you are so fond of point out what religions in other countries don’t approve of homosexuality, you must know that Arab and most other Muslim countries, men hold hands all the time.

      so put up OR SHUT UP

      Jul 30, 2009 at 4:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @Jaroslaw: So extrapolating your perverse logic, as you seem to spend a lot of time on here does that mean you don’t have a very wonderful life?

      Yes it is odd that men often hold hands in public in Muslim countries but here it’s looked down upon.

      Still people have a right to take a principled stand against homosexuality and you don’t need to be too afraid of being shot or bombed just for holding hands. That’s just you playing the victim card again and looking for sympathy.

      Jul 30, 2009 at 5:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B.
      B.

      Youcanthandlethetruth wrote “I’m not ‘trolling’ anything, just expressing a different opinion based on a principled stand against the homosexual lifestyle.”

      Hint – you’d look less like a troll if you actually espoused the principles on which your “stand” is allegedly based. Remember that “I don’t like it because I think it is icky” is not a principle. Neither is, “I think it is icky because my fundamentalist minister says it is icky.” And neither is, “I have to say this stuff so my redneck peers won’t think I’m gay when I have my arm around them in a marginal attempt to stay upright after having one too many shots of whiskey.” A “principle” is not
      a personal preference, an excuse, or a rationale for believing what someone told you to believe.

      Jul 30, 2009 at 6:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @youcanthandlethetruth:

      You are a bigot–you irrationally condemn gay people with false beliefs and invalid arguments and false parallels. But it’s a compulsion. LIke guys that jerk off in public–they can’t help themselves. THat’s who you are. BDSM spanking?

      Jul 30, 2009 at 6:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @B.: Nice of you to tell me what to believe and you consider to be acceptable principles.

      And predictable that you should indulge in bigoted, hate-filled stereotyping like so many of your homosexual brethren.

      Jul 30, 2009 at 7:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @TANK:

      Oxford English Dictionary

      bigot • noun a person who is prejudiced in their views and intolerant of the opinions of others.

      That sounds a lot like you. To be fair it sounds like almost anyone who has a strong view about anything.

      Try not to write too much like an errant pre-adolescent or your boyfriends might accuse you of “trolling”.

      Jul 30, 2009 at 7:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @youcanthandlethetruth:

      And you are prejudiced–though you’re worse…you’re not just bigoted toward the opinions of others–you’re bigoted toward others because of a trait they possess; like being a racist. You’re a homophobe.

      Jul 30, 2009 at 7:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @TANK: Do you consider yourself bigoted towards Christians? Pedophiles?

      Or do you take a principled stand against them?

      BTW homosexuality is not a “trait” it’s a behaviour. The ability to delude yourself is a trait.

      Jul 30, 2009 at 7:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @youcanthandlethetruth:

      So you’re saying, basically, that if one were to believe that murder is wrong, they’re a bigot…or that rape causes unnecessary suffering and is thereby wrong…is a bigot toward rapists? Similarly, if one is opposed to racism and racists, they’re bigots…and if I’m opposed to your homophobia and your behavior, I’m therefore a bigot.

      I think you’ve just provided your own reductio ad absurdem. We are done.

      Now you don’t have a principled stand against gays anymore than a racist has a principled stand against blacks. You say lordy says, and they basically say the same thing–different dogma. You’re a bag of wind, and are compelled here to argue…like the pervert in the park is compelled to masturbate in public. It’s your problem, not anyone else’s.

      Jul 30, 2009 at 7:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      absurdum

      Jul 30, 2009 at 7:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      And no, sexual orientation is a trait. It’s medieval and prescientific to suggest that it’s simply behavior, and that orientation doesn’t exist.

      Jul 30, 2009 at 7:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B.
      B.

      youcanthandlethetruth wrote, “@B.: Nice of you to tell me what to believe and you consider to be acceptable principles. And predictable that you should indulge in bigoted, hate-filled stereotyping like so many of your homosexual brethren.”

      What I wrote was, “A ‘principle’ is not a personal preference, an excuse, or a rationale for believing what someone told you to believe,” preceded by some hypothetical examples to make sure the point got across. Claiming that I had told you what to believe is a lie on your part: I had merely suggested that you actually explain what your alleged principles actually are. Your refusal is a pretty good indication that you don’t have any.

      And calling such a request “bigoted, hate-filled stereotyping” just makes you look like a liar who is obviously covering up. Now, why don’t you surprise us and actually answer the question?

      Jul 30, 2009 at 9:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andrew
      Andrew

      For the love of God, all things good, puppies, grandmoms, lollipops, rainbows, sleeping late… PLEASE PLEASE STOP feeding the IGNORANT!! e.g., YouCantHandleTheTruth. So so sick of having this site clogged up with his bullshit and the (understandable) responses of good people. Please… don’t engage him. He thrives on it. GIVE HIM NOTHING TO LIVE FOR — ignore him. He has nothing else in his pathetic existence.

      Jul 30, 2009 at 9:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bri
      Bri

      I just don’t get it. How does Exodus International still exist? You’d think it would be sued into oblivion.

      Jul 30, 2009 at 10:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @TANK:

      I think you’ve just provided your own reductio ad absurdum. We are done.

      Bravissimo. Excellently stated.

      Jul 31, 2009 at 12:39 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B.
      B.

      Bri wrote, “I just don’t get it. How does Exodus International still exist? You’d think it would be sued into oblivion.”

      See http://www.exodus.to/files/EPC%20Application.pdf for the application for to become an Exodus International Councilor. If you look closely, you’ll see the answer to your question. They mantain a network of councilors who have a professional license, so any liability would be the responsibility of the councilor.

      Exodus International bills itself as “a nonprofit, Interdenominational Christian organization promoting the message of Freedom from homosexuality through the power of Jesus Christ.”
      I.e., it is claiming to be a religious organization that will
      provide “Ministry Referrals”. As such, they are not actually claiming any medical expertise. In fact, the organization claims, “Exodus International is not a clinical facility and does not conduct clinical treatment of any kind.”

      http://www.exodus.to/files/EPC%20Standards.pdf has a description of the standards to be a “councilor” in Exodus’ “network”. Basically, you have to be accredited, have malpractice insurance, and be able to prove (weakly) that you are sufficiently religious.

      What also protects them from lawsuits is that their “customers” are religious people who will figure that, if the “treatment” failed, they did not pray hard enough.

      Exodus may claim credit for successes, but any failures are the responsibility of the “councilors” people are referred to. It’s a nice racket. You claim credit when it seems to work and pass the buck when it doesn’t.

      Jul 31, 2009 at 12:40 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @B.: Your premise is fallacious.

      Of course a principled opposition to a behavioural abnormality can be based on a personal preference, which in turn is based on personal moral values and set of beliefs.

      And asserting that a principle is not “a rationale for believing what someone told you to believe” is also nonsense. Somebody told you that it’s ok to be gay and you believed them.

      You’re trying, in a very clumsy way, to try and frame a closed question such that it can only be answered in a way that suits your personal preference.

      You tried and you failed.

      And homosexuals are certainly not immune from “bigoted, hate-filled stereotyping”. Just look at most of the responses to my comments on here.

      Jul 31, 2009 at 1:24 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @Andrew: For the love of God, all things good, puppies, grandmoms, lollipops, rainbows, sleeping late… PLEASE PLEASE STOP feeding the IGNORANT!! e.g., YouCantHandleTheTruth. So so sick of having this site clogged up with his bullshit and the (understandable) responses of good people. Please… don’t engage him. He thrives on it. GIVE HIM NOTHING TO LIVE FOR — ignore him. He has nothing else in his pathetic existence.
      _______________________________________________

      See what I mean about “bigoted, hate-filled stereotyping”!

      Jul 31, 2009 at 1:26 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @youcanthandlethetruth:

      Just look at most of the responses to my comments on here.

      Now whose playing the victim card?

      Jul 31, 2009 at 1:41 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • petted
      petted

      The troll is probably some flunky that works for Exodus @ minimum wage if he’s still loitering here on friday that’ll just make it clear that he’s as unwanted by the female sex as he is here.

      Jul 31, 2009 at 5:05 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      #230 you just won’t answer the questions, and YOU answering every post with “you’re just playing the victim card” proves nothing. Why do you have a principled stand against homosexuality? And of course, you may but our system of government is not supposed to let the will of the majority overide equal rights. Studies that show any problems homosexuals have are based on the hateful culture we live in, not anything instrinsic to homosexuality.

      Reciting FACTS is not playing the victim card. You know perfectly well people as a group oppress and hate – minorities such as Blacks & Gays, immigrants etc.

      Well, whatever, you’re losing. Every public opininon poll shows that support for Gays increasing, so you’re flailing against the tide. Things change. Get used to it. After centuries of opression, in western countries, women have the right to vote, slavery and child labor no longer exist here…..We have the right to marry in Vermont, Iowa, Massachussetts…..

      No, I don’t have a wonderful life, I have an OK life, so yeah, I spend a lot of time here. I’m being honest, which is something you have a problem with.

      Jul 31, 2009 at 8:40 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mark
      Mark [Different person #1 using similar name]

      Don’t pet the troll!

      Jul 31, 2009 at 8:58 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B.
      B.

      Youcanthandlethetruth wrote, “Your premise is fallacious.
      Of course a principled opposition to a behavioural abnormality can be based on a personal preference, which in turn is based on personal moral values and set of beliefs.”

      Rather, you are showing your ignorance of the English language.
      A “principle” is not a “preference”, which is what I stated,
      and your “personal moral values and set of beliefs” apparently do not prevent you from putting out one false statement after another, which is what you are doing to avoid answering the question. If you have a “principled opposition” of some sort, you should be able to explain what those principles are. You can’t or you won’t.

      You added, “And asserting that a principle is not ‘a rationale for believing what someone told you to believe’ is also nonsense. Somebody told you that it’s ok to be gay and you believed them.”

      In fact, what I wrote is completely true and what you wrote is completely false. If you said, “My Calvinist minister told me it is all the work of the devil,” some rationale for believing that (e.g., he has a big, booming voice) is not a principle.

      Finally, why would you assume I’m gay, much less that someone told me it is OK, when I hadn’t said one way or the other? Is it the only thing you can think of to avoid answering the question?

      What are your so-called principles? Your lack of a response indicates that you do not have any.

      Jul 31, 2009 at 10:58 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SuperCat
      SuperCat

      @youcanthandlethetruth: “The ability to delude yourself is a trait.”

      …the irony is killing me… so… funny…

      Jul 31, 2009 at 2:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @B.: In fact, what I wrote is completely true and what you wrote is completely false. If you said, “My Calvinist minister told me it is all the work of the devil,” some rationale for believing that (e.g., he has a big, booming voice) is not a principle.

      ______________________________________________

      So what you seem to be saying, in your own condescending, pseudo-intellectual way, is that

      -what you wrote is true because you believe it

      -what I wrote is NOT true because I’m not allowed to hold pirncipled beliefs that differ from yours

      -what Christian ministers say doesn’t count, because you are not a Christian

      -when someone says “it’s ok to be gay” you believe him because it aligns with your chosen lifestyle

      Finally, after all that “bigoted, hate-filled stereotyping” you accuse me of the same!

      You are full of hot air.

      Jul 31, 2009 at 2:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B.
      B.

      Sigh. Here’s the latest misstatement from “yuocanthandlethetruth”
      ________________________________________________

      @B.: In fact, what I wrote is completely true and what you wrote is completely false. If you said, “My Calvinist minister told me it is all the work of the devil,” some rationale for believing that (e.g., he has a big, booming voice) is not a principle.

      _____

      So what you seem to be saying, in your own condescending, pseudo-intellectual way, is that

      -what you wrote is true because you believe it

      -what I wrote is NOT true because I’m not allowed to hold pirncipled beliefs that differ from yours

      -what Christian ministers say doesn’t count, because you are not a Christian
      _______________________________________________

      The idiocy of your remarks is clear to everyone. Now, why don’t you be a good little boy and try to state clearly and precisely what principles make up your “principled stand” against homosexuality? If you have any principles, which I doubt, you should be able to state what they are.

      Jul 31, 2009 at 6:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bri
      Bri

      @B.: That makes sense. Thanks. That is really…frustrating.

      Jul 31, 2009 at 7:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @B.: I already explained in #245.

      Jul 31, 2009 at 7:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B.
      B.

      youcanthandlethetruth wrote, “@B.: I already explained in #245.”

      In fact, in that comment, he explained nothing but simply made some unsubstantiated and silly assumptions.

      Now, as I said, if youcanthandlethetruth has some “principled” anything, let him clearly state what those alleged principles are.

      Jul 31, 2009 at 7:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DeAnimator
      DeAnimator

      Normally, I hate “lols” and such. But in the face of stupidity such as this and Exodus International…I honestly think only “lol srsly?” can sum up the ridiculousness of it all.

      Aug 1, 2009 at 4:22 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • crimson
      crimson

      @youcanthandlethetruth: Marriage need ‘protecting’ from homosexuals? why? does two men getting married prevent a man and a woman from marrying if they so choose?

      Aug 1, 2009 at 8:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      #259 YCHTT won’t answer you. I’ve asked him any number of times on this and other posts. He doesn’t have an answer. I’m not going to stoop to insults as some have here, but it sure makes me wonder what he has against Same Sex Marriage. NO, I don’t want to hear the Bible is supposedly against it. We live in a secular society that allows freedom of religion within limits.

      Why is it your business, YCHTT who I marry?

      Aug 3, 2009 at 2:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @Jaroslaw: Because marriage is for one man and one woman, to legitimise children and as a foundation to raise a family.

      Homosexual marriage is an oxymoron, like bestial marriage. Polygamy would make more sense than homosexual marriage.

      If you want some kind of formal contractual relationship then get a civil union or talk to your attorney about forming an LLC or ‘S’ Corporation. I hear Nevada is the best place to incorporate.

      Fact it, homosexual marriage is really just another plea for normality from people who are obsessed with abnormal behaviour.

      Aug 3, 2009 at 3:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      #261 – marriage is between one man & woman – because you say so? I don’t think!!!!

      Legitimize children? You better get a grip – I already have addressed this many times – what about the 10’s of thousands of children born to unwed parents, who likely will never marry?

      You will note I’ve never said you can’t have an opinion different from mine, what I am saying is your hypocritical to have it IF you are voting for constitutional amendments to ban SSM IF you are also not working to ban unwed parenting, divorce and everything else the Bible prohibits.

      If you’re not planning to outlaw divorce etc., why not?

      Aug 3, 2009 at 4:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @Jaroslaw: All good ideas but sadly the horse has already bolted in the case of divorce.

      The demise of marriage since relaxation of divorce laws makes us extra wary about making a similar mistake again.

      Just because the moral fabric of society is rapidly unraveling doesn’t mean we should hasten the process by redefining marriage for homosexuals.

      Aug 3, 2009 at 4:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      Hmmm, the horse of homosexuality has already bolted too, but YOU just didn’t know it.

      Read some history – there were homosexual balls (dances) in NYC and New Orleans over a century ago, hidden bars and clubs all kinds of things, it just was hidden from YOU.

      So again, unless you prepared to pull all rights from people who don’t think exactly the way you do, you’re on very shaky ground, legally.

      Again I say, you’re flailing against the tide. How much better the world would be if the energy used fighting homosexuality would be used to stop wars etc.

      And you never did answer the pheromone question (Brain scan studies done in Sweden – DUDE – being Gay is NOT a choice). Behavior yes, I can be a celibate Gay guy, but my feelings are not up for discussion.

      Aug 3, 2009 at 4:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @Jaroslaw:

      Asking YCHTT to answer any question concerning same-sex marriage is merely presenting him with yet another opportunity to verbally pistol-whip you with his tired argument that homosexual marriage is really just another plea for normality from people who are obsessed with abnormal behaviour.

      How can you logically and intellectually argue with someone who constantly invokes Godwin’s Law to shut down the conversation?

      Arguing with insanity is a complete waste of time.

      Aug 3, 2009 at 4:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • nicky
      nicky

      @youcanthandlethetruth..
      can you handle it?
      I bet you are not a happy person. and all around you is fake including your friends, even your family. because you are HYPOCRITE freak.

      Aug 3, 2009 at 5:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @nicky: Sorry to disappoint you nicky but you’re wrong on all counts

      Aug 3, 2009 at 5:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      #265 Yes, it is mostly a waste of time, but anyone who is on the fence or undecided can now clearly see he won’t answer the questions or only selectively answers….

      Whereas I always address his every point. But I’m done now.

      THANKS

      Aug 3, 2009 at 5:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @Jaroslaw:
      The American Psychological Association’s prestigious journal Professional Psychology: Research and Practice has just published a comprehensive research paper on sexual-orientation change.

      Clients have the right to pursue change, the author says, because “sexual orientation, once thought to be an unchanging trait, is actually quite flexible for some people.”

      How much better the world would be if the energy used fighting by homosexuals would be used to stop wars etc.

      Aug 3, 2009 at 5:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      Plus I’ve done a lot of Bible reading and study too – Jews of old never read and especially never interpreted it for themselves, that is what the Rabbi was for and on and on –

      Anyone can grab a sign and claim they have the true knowledge, this is nothing new, but huge ever increasing numbers of Christian sects breaking away from each to form a new sect does seem to be an incredible phenomenon in America.

      Keeping this in mind, simply mindlessly quoting the Bible doesn’t shake my foundation at all. Timothy says women aren’t supposed to talk in Church at all AND keep their heads covered. Hardly anybody does this anymore!!!

      Aug 3, 2009 at 5:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @nicky: You would lose that bet nicky

      Aug 3, 2009 at 5:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      #269 – I’ve not had time to research that, but I can say unlike you, I allow others to follow their wishes. And there is hardly any subject in which everyone agrees, so the idea of some or a few psychologists signing on to this notion is not surprising at all.

      In case you didn’t know a research paper is quite probably ONE person’s opinion/research. It is hardly POLICY. Who did the research? How was it funded? These questions may be important too.

      Answer the question about the pheromone study in Sweden……..

      Aug 3, 2009 at 5:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      Answer the question about the pheromone study in Sweden

      Aug 3, 2009 at 5:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      Give me your thoughts on the pheromone study in Sweden

      Aug 3, 2009 at 5:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • nicky
      nicky

      @youcanthandlethetruth..
      you just defending yourself..
      from how you speak and criticize it is obviously people don’t like you, or at least you living a lie to make people around you loves you which is make yourself not happy =P

      Aug 3, 2009 at 5:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @nicky: Sorry nicky you couldn’t be more wrong.

      I love many people and am loved by many in return, that’s who it tends to work.

      I lead a mostly happy life and have been blessed to achieve most of the goals I have set, for which I thank God every night.

      Aug 3, 2009 at 5:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @Jaroslaw:

      YCHTT is not interest in rational debate. How could he be?

      Religion itself is not rational, nor is anyone coming from religion rational.

      Debate means being willing to hear out, perhaps even accept a viewpoint that is different from theirs and allow it change their entire way of thinking. Has YCHTT ever indicated any willingness to accept any of our viewpoint as perhaps being valid besides his church dogma?

      Noooooooooooooo. And hell will freeze over before he does. He has been brainwashed by his Christianity to NEVER, EVER, allow anyone else’s viewpoint to sway him from his conditioning and the belief system that has been instilled into his head.

      Debate means being able to use one’s mind to sift through information and come to a logical decision about various issues.
      It’s the scientific way to draw conclusions about reality. Why do you think the church works so hard at trying to tear down and debunk down science and evolution?

      As a believer, you do not debate the Pope. You do not debate the Bishops. And you do not debate the Priests.

      You do what you are told like a good little boy/girl, or you will be excommunicated by the church to spend the rest of your life in isolation like a leper and when you reach the end of that miserable, lonely life, your soul will be tossed into a lake of fire to suffer for an eternity.

      Compared to that, what do any of us have to present YCHTT with that is powerful enough to make him change his mind or make him reject the brainwashing his captors have subjected him to?

      They are not believers. They are just stupid little gnomes who are terrified at the idea of going to hell. And the idea that there is no more meaning to life than simply living it and enjoying it and that there is no heaven, no heavenly father, no angles and no harps to “give meaning and purpose” to their sad and lonely lives” is more than they can deal with.

      Unless YCHTT has an epiphany, he will remain their slave robotron, condemned to a lifetime of selling Jesus, God, heaven and hell to the dumb fucks who can’t think for themselves and need a bull-ring in their noses to be led around with.

      Aug 3, 2009 at 5:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @Jaroslaw: What were the findings of this “phermone study”?

      And why should we use it to reverse millenia of human wisdom and instinct?

      Aug 3, 2009 at 5:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @schlukitz: How rational and open-minded of you to dismiss the faith of billions of people down the centuries.

      Just so you can try to rationalise your abnormal sexual yearnings and get your rocks off with some other guy.

      Aug 3, 2009 at 5:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @youcanthandlethetruth:

      Millenia of human wisdom? LIke that witches exist and need to be burned, and that the earth is the center of the solar system–that it’s flat and that women were created from adam’s rib? LMAO! That’s wisdom for ya.

      Aug 3, 2009 at 5:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @youcanthandlethetruth:

      Now you dare talk of the scientific research into human sexuality after admitting that you have nothing but contempt for science, and prefer mythology over it? I think you could at least be consistent. If you get cancer (god willing), see a faith healer not an oncologist.

      Aug 3, 2009 at 5:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • nicky
      nicky

      @youcanthandlethetruth..
      If I wrong on all counts, why did you replied me twice for one question?
      It’s proving that I’m right and you are feel not secure, so you respond it twice.. =)

      (psychology view)

      Aug 3, 2009 at 5:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @nicky: Nicky did you over medicate today?

      I can’t wait for tank to give you his little lecture on being “rational”.

      Aug 3, 2009 at 5:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @TANK: Tank I’ve had close relatives die from cancer and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone, including you.

      Aug 3, 2009 at 5:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @youcanthandlethetruth:

      I’m saying that for someone who despies science and enlightenement values as much as you do, you should eschew medical treatments borne of the scientific method and research if you are afflicted with an illness. Anything less is pure hypocrisy…rendering your faith meaningless.

      Aug 3, 2009 at 5:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      #278 & 279 – Okay, YCHTT – you are being absolutely stupid now.

      1. You can find pheromone & brain scan study + Sweden with google search – start with NewScientist.com – which I already told you. However, they have become a pay site now, so you won’t get all the goods. Basically, I already told you that Gay male brains responded to the hormones in male sweat, which has no smell. How can one fake this?

      2. Millions of eons of human existance shows many forms of sexual expression were acceptable in various societies.

      For you to say otherwise, is to show your profound ignorance and anyone with a more than 3 particles of intelligence should stop reading ANYTHING you post NOW.

      #277 Schlukitz- well, I certainly agree religion has been a negative force in many ways, but it has been positive too. And I think before you were here, I posited the idea that if religion were not the reasons for division of groups of people other things would be.

      It took me a long time to realize I can still believe in God without all the relgious trappings, and you’re right YCHTT probably will never even acknowledge that is possible. Sorry for him and so many others – that his brain is so warped. I had a Great uncle the same way. He just wouldn’t acknowledge that there was any legitimacy of a certain very large church, and when I gave him a book about it, he read it, returned it to me (lest it contaminate his house apparently! supersitious?) and the first thing he wrote in his response was “The Christian Missionary Alliance church states the Bible is the sole rule of faith.”

      Interesting, since the Bible itself doesn’t say this. We argued for years and I couldn’t get him to see the illogicalness of this. He was a great man, very tolerant, much more so than YCHTT, but I still couldn’t get but so far with him. Steeped like tea is a great description of his mindset. Sad.

      Aug 3, 2009 at 5:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • nicky
      nicky

      @youcanthandlethetruth..
      nope.. i never use drugs even smoke..
      I also live in rationally thoughts,
      besides I’m major in human psychology to interpret your writing,
      and human psychology also tells being gay is not any of sickness or deviation =) some cases it’s already there when men still an embryo (based on doctor’s learning book)

      Aug 3, 2009 at 5:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      I can still believe in God without all the relgious trappings

      As Don King would say, “only in america” [would you find this much self delusion be expressed with a straight face]

      Aug 3, 2009 at 5:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @TANK: I don’t despise science and nor did Jesus.

      I don’t believe Jesus said we shouldn’t use physicians to help us get better.

      Science is man’s attempt to explain God’s work. Even though you deride the Bible and every major world religion you have no scientific explanation for Creation and all its wonders.

      Aug 3, 2009 at 5:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      #288 why did you need to make that comment? Stick to fighting with YCHTT.

      Aug 3, 2009 at 5:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @youcanthandlethetruth:

      OH, I think you despise science. It aggravates you. YOu were slandering it in another comments section, talking about how love can’t be explained as a series of neurochemical reactions in another post, and talking about “creation” (opposing evolution)…you’re very hostile toward science.

      Aug 3, 2009 at 5:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      science is man’s “attempt” to explain god’s creation? LOL! You’re very hostile toward sense.

      Aug 3, 2009 at 5:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      sense and reason, that is.

      Aug 3, 2009 at 5:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @youcanthandlethetruth:

      Just so you can try to rationalise your abnormal sexual yearnings and get your rocks off with some other guy.

      Your responses become more assinine and deluded with each passing day.

      Such a typical response from a straight homophobe like you. You can’t come up with a rational argument to any of the questions that have been put to you, so now you flatter yourself by thinking that any of us would want to get our rocks off with the likes of you.

      I’d fuck DuttyBarb between her fat tits before I would even think of getting my rocks off with the likes of creep like you.

      And while we’re at it, we didn’t come looking for you.

      YOU came looking for us, closet-fag. And I use the expression fag in the same manner that a black man would call one of his own the “N” word; deprecatingly, demeaningly and with a total lack of respect for you as a human being because you have done and said nothing on these threads to earn any respect from any of us. You’re just a total POS!

      Forget the tolerence, because I could never learn to “tolerate” the likes of you!

      Hell, if it existed, would freeze-over first.

      Aug 3, 2009 at 6:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @youcanthandlethetruth:

      Science is man’s attempt to explain God’s work.

      Bullshit! Another bold-faced lie. What empirical evidence do you have to back that assertion up with?

      Next, you’ll be telling us that god put homosexuals here to wipe your shitty ass, because that is exactly what you are trying to do with us!

      Aug 3, 2009 at 6:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @schlukitz:

      It’s an unfalsifiable religious claim that just further backs up his contempt for science.

      Aug 3, 2009 at 6:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @Jaroslaw:

      Thank you for the interesting comments you sent my way in your post no. 286. I get that you are an open-minded, reasonable man who is open to discussion and debate, not shutting people down as is the custom of YCHTT, SM and DuttyBarb.

      I grew up in a Catholic home where the concept of God was a part of our reality. And, I guess that for a long time, I truly did believe the notion that God actually does exist, long after I dumped all of the religious trappings.

      As I have grown older, however, I have come to question that notion more and more and I have to confess that I seriously question the concept that there is a loving, caring God that looks over and after each of us. The more I read and explore, the more I realize that there are just too many unexplained questions for me to support the belief in a higher power.

      And, truth be known, who really knows? I cannot prove the non-existence of God, any more than YCHTT can prove that God does exist. Only when we die, will we get to know, and that would be contingent upon whether consciousness exists after our physical demise occurs. No one knows for certain.

      That said, however, I hasten to say that I would never deny anyone the right to believe in the concept of a higher diety. If it give one personal comfort and strength and doesn’t interfere with my beliefs and rights, then I see it as being relatively benign and harmless.

      Only when people like DuttyBarb & YCHTT come along, do I feel the need to say “Hey stop right there. I defend your right to believe as you will, but I will not defend your perceived notion that you have a right to tell me how I must live.”

      If I choose to be a non-believer, that is my right and I still live in a country where I was given assurances by the Bill of Rights and the Constitution that my rights will not be abridged in any way, regardless of my personal beliefs, no more than the rights of Christians and people of other religious beliefs should be abridged. We are all equal under the law and we should be treated as such instead of being under constant attack from the “believers”.

      From what I have seen of your postings, I get that both you and I are on the very same page. I respect your right to believe as you wish and I also get that you respect my right to believe as I wish as well.

      And that respect is far superior to that horrible word the bible-thumpers like to use…tolerence, which to me, sounds like I am being “put-up with”. I hate it when people just put with me and would really rather just blow me off. LOL

      It’s a pleasure exchanging dialogue with you, Sir. I look forward to your continuing commentaries.

      Aug 3, 2009 at 6:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @TANK:

      OH, I think you despise science. It aggravates you.

      Apparently, YCHTT’s teleprompter is busted! LOL

      Aug 3, 2009 at 7:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      #297 Schlukitz – thanks for the kind words, yes, we are on the same page. I understand your feelings about doubting God, but I like to think about God per the Christophers’ philosophy – better to light a single candle than to curse the darkness. In fact, I haven’t gotten their newsletter for years and I think I’ll sign back up! (they are a monastery in NYC I think that publishes a positive thought kind of newsletter).

      Obviously we don’t have time or space to discuss everything here (you’re welcome to e-mail me at home Cazgreat@yahoo.com)and thanks again. My head is as big as a room (maybe both of them :) heart heart…..

      It is truly sad that people like Duttybarb and YCHTT just repeat endlessly what they hear without thinking but there is a long human history for that too.

      I truly enjoyed your comment about “we didn’t come looking for you, you came here.” I don’t know if you saw his post, but he FINALLY answered “why are you here” and his reply was “why not.”

      Anyway, it is a beautiful day – enjoy it!

      Aug 4, 2009 at 8:40 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ricky
      ricky

      @youcanthandlethetruth: troll.

      Sep 9, 2009 at 7:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jay
      Jay

      I came to this site looking to get some info on Alan Chambers. I’ve never visited a gay website before and I’m ashamed to even read some of the comments and your article on him. Isn’t there any way you can just be happy that a man has found the happiness he has found for himself? Your comments and those of your readers show me that YOU are the ones that are unhappy with your lives. You may be having “the time of your life” but I see very sad people behind the words I’ve just read. If you have to put people down, then there’s something missing in your outlook on life. Live your life the way you want to, but allow others to be happy with the life they’ve chosen for themselves. You gays talk about intolerance toward your lifestyle, but in YOU I see the most base intolerance! I won’t be visiting again, so don’t bother responding!

      May 12, 2010 at 11:02 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Joani Walton
      Joani Walton

      I came here for the same reason as no. 301 and I totally agree with what he said, and so I won’t have to repeat the things he wrote. In addition to that, I wanted to say that Jesus loves us no matter what we have found to be our “bent” and what is the particular problem in our deceitful heart. As it says in Hebrews 12:4 , “In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.” I have things I struggle with, and I need Jesus to help me stop doing them. He has helped me stop some things, and I know that as I hang with Him, He will give me the strength to help me with the rest. As we grow closer to Jesus in our walk, more deceit in our hearts may be revealed. Have I died trying to stop doing these things? No. But Jesus DID die…for these things. Being God, and Our Creator, He knows how to help me stop the sin. Jesus—who made you and me—will help us resist any temptation, no matter what it is, no matter how strong, by living inside of you. There IS AN ABSOLUTE TRUTH. The Creator wins.

      Mar 1, 2012 at 6:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mr. Robertson
      Mr. Robertson

      @Joani Walton: “Jesus—who made you and me—will help us resist any temptation, no matter what it is, no matter how strong, by living inside of you.”

      So the solution to all our problems is to have a man inside us? I don’t know if that’s true, but I guess it doesn’t hurt to try ;-)

      Mar 1, 2012 at 6:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

    Add your Comment

    Please log in to add your comment

    Need an account? Register It's free and easy.



  • POPULAR ON QUEERTY

    FOLLOW US
     



    GET QUEERTY'S DAILY NEWSLETTER


    FROM AROUND THE WEB

    !-- Sailthru Horizon -->
    Copyright 2014 Queerty, Inc.
    Follow Queerty at Queerty.com, twitter.com/queerty and facebook.com/queerty.