Alex Rowlson’s article in Fab magazine about using racist, ageist, and body-fascist phrases like “no fats,” “no femmes” or “no Asians” on Grindr hasn’t just sparked discussion here at Queerty—it’s also started a battle between gay-porn bloggers.
It’s Zachary Sire at The Sword versus the pseudonymous Cedric DeWittison of Fleshbot. (Both sites are NSFW) Let’s join the fray!
Rowlson’s article asked men to question the basis of their racial and body-type preferences and suggested that such statements like “no blacks” may perpetuate hatred, bigotry and pettiness. The piece also indicated that gay men should open themselves up to new sexual experiences and choose partners based on an individual’s perceived sexual capacity rather than their outward appearance.
The Sword editor Zachary Sire called bullshit on Rowlson’s article, saying that statements like “no fats” or”no Asians” aren’t examples of prejudice—they merely express a personal preference.
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
But now Gawker’s porn site has joined the conversation. Cedric DeWittison calls The Sword’s response “whiny” and “clearly intolerant”:
[Sire’s] not wanting sex with women doesn’t make him a misogynist, because he’s a homosexual. Naturally he’s not attracted to women. That can hardly be compared to a gay man who refuses sex with a well-built dude and his penis because of the shape of his eyes or hue of his skin. There is no anglosexual or afrosexual terminology anywhere in the scientific tomes on human sexuality. What men consider “visually stimulating” isn’t “hard-wired into our brains,” as the writer at The Sword believes. What we find desirable is a result of years of societal and media conditioning, regardless of our sexuality, rather than something in our genes, as sexuality is…
Bottom line, men with preferences need to stop being so damn defensive about it, throwing tantrums of “goddammit, we are not racist because we like whites only. Waaaaaa!” As the Fab article mentions, guys can clearly state what they prefer instead of posting which men they don’t want to fuck with the blatant terminology of the Jim Crow era. Sure we can have black or Asian friends, and not want to fuck a black or Asian guy (or a white guy for that matter). It’s okay. That’s cool. No one really thinks you’re out flying the Confederate Flag while wearing a white sheet. You are not racist. We know. But let’s be tactful about it. Because no matter what the situation is, sexual or otherwise, posting “no blacks, no Asians,” even though a preference, is exclusionary, backwards, insensitive, ignorant and tacky.
So according to Fleshbot, it’s okay if you don’t respond to blacks, Asians or chubbies on Grindr— just don’t be obvious about it.
Or rather, focus on what you do want rather than what you don’t.
For example, a kinder Grindr profile might say, “I like white, hairy jocks in their 20s” as opposed to “No Latinos, no fatties, smooth only, no one over 30.”
Here’s a crazy thought: try just not responding to people you’re not personally attracted to.
Matthew Rettenmund
On the one hand, your erotic desires can not be controlled, largely; you want what you want. (Though you don’t have to indulge all the time.) Certain traits are going to turn you on, period. Certain acts are going to turn you on, period.
However, I really do think it’s racist when guys say “no Asians, no blacks,” etc., because Asian people and black people are extremely different from one another, just like white folks are. It’s crazy to think you can’t find a single black person with a drop of black blood who you would consider dating or dicking. And if you can’t then the only common denominator is “black”—and that’s racist. To call it anything else is bullshit.
I think having preferences toward is much more realistic anyway.
redmont
So internalize it? That’s the answer? Great…cuz that always works out.
stoopid louie
What a dumb argument.
Listen, it’s not me who’s a racist, it’s my dick. I’ll carry on conversations all day long with people of all colors, shapes and sizes, but when it comes to sexual congress, it’s Little Louie who has the final say, and Little Louie don’t like no dark meat. Can’t change that fact any more than I can change the fact that I’m into dudes.
redmont
@Matthew Rettenmund: I’ve used that language, but it’s all a game of statistics, at least in my head. I’m pretty sure everyone has their exceptions just like I do, but if I ever say no this or no that, it means they don’t fall within my scope of PREFERENCE. That is, one is preferred over another. That doesn’t mean ALL of this or ALL of that. I don’t think I could ever say ALL black guys or asian guys don’t do it for me. To use your example,if a vast majority of the black/asian guys I see don’t do it for me, that’s my reality. If people are coming to me for sex, I’d prefer the conversation to end up with sex. If I see a black or asian guy I find attractive, I will go out of my way to contact them.
To be sure, everything I’m saying is with complete disregard for other people’s feelings and emotions…but then again when it comes to just having sex, I don’t think that should really come into play. It’s just sex, nothing personal.
LukeM
No femmes could equal = I like guys who are a little rough around the edges!
While I essentially agree with the point (and add that it wouldn’t be an issue if you weren’t such a whore anyway), I can’t see the value of all this talking about it.
We gays are exerts at turning sexual taboo into boner-aid! Can’t you see that all this academic talking about challenging societal hierarchies is just encouraging me to view every white guy I take home as a transgressive, dirty little secret!
My boy friend’s white ass used to just be his white ass. Now it’s a fucking totem to the erotic power of doing what I shouldn’t.
Gay Country Wes
I actually just deleted Grinder because of the massive congregation of douchebags that have shown their faces…or better yet, some totally weird picture of their car…on the app, thinking that people really want to deal with more drama and petty bullshit. It’s not worth anyone’s time to have to shovel shit to find a decent person to talk to or whatever else arises.
TomMc
I’m not on that Grindr thing but maybe something like this would help?…
1 – User’s indicate their Stats when signing up (e.g. weight, age, skin tone);
2 – Change the “Search” function so that user’s can search not only by Location but also by Stats (e.g., as above);
3 – Allow users to Block and/or Hide other users who don’t match their search criteria.
jason
Why on Earth are we using porn sleazeballs to make judgements on our sexuality? Porn is about voyeurism and prostitution. I don’t want any of these porn types making comments about the sexuality of males.
Way2Go
Well here we are in the middle of an economic depression, a political primary, an American Spring and then there’s Queerty, continuing this senseless debate, probably because they are actually getting hits. It it senseless? Yes. No one is going to change anyone’s mind about the subject. This isn’t a new subject so the fact that its back in the public eye…maybe Queerty has stock with Grindr? Why is no one upset with Craiglist’s where this sort of sexual preference announcement goes on every second, or gay.com, wherever gay men are angling for sex, there is preference. Tom Mc has the best ideas and should really shut down this conversation, but it won’t. Everyone is a racist, a bigot, a pig, blah blah blah. Its hard to believe this is really topic one for gay men and women.
Mike in Asheville
Lack of tact simply exposes one to be the asshole they are. And hey, that is probably attractive to other assholes.
Instead of the “NO BLACKS, ASIANS, HISPANICS” why not try the “Skinhead 4 skinhead”?
BTW, my vast experience with all sorts of men of race: blacks do have bigger cocks but, more importantly, I have found they are very sensual kissers; Asian guys totally dig rubbing themselves into my hairy chest; American Indians have the most beautifully smooth skin and a deep spiritual ease; Jewish and similarly Catholics are hot to trot, perhaps its the guilt complexes; Hispanic guys and their larger sized uncut cock just wanna lay back and enjoy the ride; French boys want to be all romantic; Italians are full of wham-bam-thank-you-man; or, more importantly, there is so much variety out there offering so many kinds of fun.
Too many guys limit themselves when there is a world of opportunity.
pierre
@Mike in Asheville: You sure sound like you’ve been around the proverbial block a few thousand times! Good for you!
Politically Incorrect Thug
@Mike in Asheville: How very noble and PC of you.
Kev C
Read Grindr message
Be offended by blunt language
Ask God to punish them for being dicks
But not a whiny lowlife
kylew
This whole debate is hilarious. People use grindr simply to find sex partners and people are discussing whether expressing racial preference makes people more shallow?! Participation in grindr period seems to be say something about its users, and that some are worse than others. I think the whole community are little better than a bunch of leg humping dogs, and that’s just fine, so long as no-one is under any illusions.
IMHO
Many of you are missing the point. It’s not about not liking certain races, but asking ourselves WHY. The original article had a very good point stating that many people’s preferences are based upon the mainstream construct of what the ideal male is supposed to be: white, muscular, masculine, and many things that many of us will never be. What the article is suggesting is NOT that we don’t like white, muscular, masculine guys anymore, but to question why we only find this attractive and why we don’t find physical traits of other races as such. It is also suggesting that we step out of this box, this comfort zone and start opening to other traits that can also be attractive, like, hmmm… PERSONALITY?(you may hook up with your ideal sex partner, but if his personality sucks the sex will suck too).
This issue is not resolved by saying “it’s just my preference”. Admitting that we like and don’t like these aspects is the start of what could be something enlightening, but to get there you have to take the next step and ask yourself WHY.
Pete n SFO
I’m down with the brown…
In real-life it comes down to chemistry, but when you’re shoppin’ on-line, is there really something wrong with being able to identify what floats your boat?
I get turned-on by uncut dick. I don’t perceive cut guys as less than. There’s a big difference happening there & the same probably goes for asian vs latin vs US-born vs Euro.
Did anyone really ever judge a straight-guy for being attracted to blondes, redheads, etc?
The no-fat, no-fems, IS offensive… but it’s entirely possible fat guys & fems aren’t really into muscle-heads & butch-queens… doesn’t it all work out in the end? (pun, absolutely intended)
ait10101
@Mike in Asheville:
Actually, statistically whites from Western Europe have the largest cocks, except perhaps for some regions in Southern Sudan and northern Uganda and a few others. On average, Blacks do not have the longest cocks. As for countries, I think the prize goes to Holland, though I have also heard Finland.
Chipsy
Some people just want to feel superior to others – and dissing people who state exactly what they want on Grindr is just another way of doing this. Pompous c***ts.
Libertarian Larry
@Chipsy: You got that right.
Deb Ree
I can understand grey hair, wrinkles and fat not being so attractive. A biological need for fit breeding partners, even though it’s more of an appendix than a biological drive in gay men. But race, how do you develop such an exclusive desire that only one race satisfies you? Do you go through puberty with only people looking exactly like you? Did you go to school with kids from Village of the Damned? My puberty was spent with Whites Blacks and Puerto Ricans and race would be the last thing I and my dick consider when looking for sex.
Red Meat
I never met any gay guy who doesn’t like Hispanic guys, those idiots are probably implying Aztec decent Mexicans and such as the target of their “dislike”
Sarko
@ait10101: Incorrect, blacks on average have longer dicks (not much tough compared to whites). Global condom companies which manufactures specifically for African market would also disagree.
jeff4justice
The problem is not attraction. The issue is how people write offensively in their profiles. Instead of singling out a race in a profile as unwelcome, why not write what one is seeking instead? How many gay profiles do you see that read “No woman, no anti-gays, no people from Mars.”?
It’s a shame how much we LGBTs go on about “It Gets Better” and all the anti-bullying stuff when LGBTs cut each other down so much.
Whenever I see these profiles I initiate conversation asking guys why they write offensively as if they were anti-gay.
Instead of writing “no fats, no fems, no old people, no Asians” why not instead write “I am looking for in-shape, masculine, young, white (or whatever race) guys?”
Also, when I see profiles with “no fems” (or things like that) in profiles, I hit the guy up and tell him “Thanks! More fems for me!”
jeff4justice
Here’s a great Grindr profile: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=189228921151401&set=a.113204032087224.19100.100001928836946&type=1&theater
Anonymous
Gays are inherently racist which will unfortunately lead to the ultimate demise of the gay. We are self destructive as individuals and as a community. We don’t deserve to get married or serve in the military or to have equal rights because we build walls rooted in racism and call it “preferences”. Just call it what it is. RACISM.
James
I just don’t understand why not say what you like?If you only like white guys just say that don’t put “no black”no asians”.Its just rude and make you seem like a asshole.I just wish all my black brothers would stop chasing after white guys.I guess I’m lucky I live in the ATL there is a large black gay community here and don’t worship white gays.
JayKay
“That being said, is there any kind way to express that you want a non-feminine guy? And does that get into self-loathing homophobia and gender issues or is it OK to prefer guys with certain affectations?”
Jesus Christ, of course it’s “ok.”
I’m gay. I want a man, not a Kurt Hummel.
Timmmeeeyyy!!!
Two things:
1. Hispanic is not a race. It encompasses everything from blonde Europeans to black Carribeans.
2. Why is it you never see “no whites” in these ads?
Miss Understood
First of all please send ME all the hot black, Latino, and Asian guys! I’ll take them all on at once. You fuckers don’t know what you’re missing!
Secondly those Grindr profiles are pathetic. You have one line, ONE LINE to say something about yourself, any you us that one line to say something negative. It says a lot about you in general.
Geez, if I had a profile and got a response from someone I wasn’t at all interested in I probably just would move on. It’s not a big deal. Apart from the blatant racism these “face pic or I will block you!” guys really have issues.
Kev C
@Anonymous: Listen. Blacks are famously homophobic yet that never stopped them from winning Grammy Awards and NBA games. Gay racists are destined to be rich and famous. They may even become President.
And frankly, everyone knows that calling gays “racist” is just more black homophobia.
Mike in Asheville
@pierre: Around the block a few very fun times! Thanks.
@Politically Incorrect Thug: Not being PC, just slutty fun!
@ait10101: Didn’t say “biggest” said bigger, and importantly, at least with me, great kissers. Have heard of the “curse of the Irish” but size doesn’t trump fun, and have had many fun times with Irish boys too.
Interesting
Once again, it is easy to discuss the sex part, but what explains the social segregation amongst gays in which Whites do not want to hang out with non-Whites, even if it is not for sex? The better way to see the racism is where someone puts up an ad for “friendship” but when they realize you aren’t White, they lose interest even when they said i was to find people with the same hobbies. The excuse makes can rationalize it “ain’t” racism until the cows come home about sexual desire, but they sure as hell can not explain those who don’t want to socialize, even when sharing a hobby with each other, with blacks at all and even when the group supposedly was just searching for anyone interested in the hobby.
Interesting
@IMHO: I think understand that’s the point, but do not want to discuss it. If one is repeating the same argument in different ways over and over again, and the audience continues to pretend not to get it, then the problem isn’t that they don’t get it. It is that they don’t want to get it. Making it about fucking rather than social attitudes is the easy way to cop out of a much more difficult conversation about race in the gay community. Look, every time, and I do mean, every time this conversation about race comes up, the White gays claim “what us, racist? You are homophobic to call us racist.” Or the other one I love, “You are being racist to point out that I am racist.” How do I know this is just sham? Because it comes up even when the subject is inclusion of people of color in political groups for gay rights. In other words, its to limited to fucking. But, it is easier to ignore all that under the circumstances because they can use the thing that they think is sure to shut down debate- a red herring about sex rather than social attitudes.
Interesting
@kylew: Actually people use various sites for different reasons. As I said, your comment is one of those “its fucking so whatever id done is okay.” When someone like you comes up, I always point out that its not just fucking. The exclusion occurs in social context such as political action and in social hanging out too. Moreover, it also is something that I find to easy to use to cover up racism. I was dating, or at least I thought I was since we were becoming progressively intimate, this guy for about a month. We finally had sex. He told me the next day that he doesn’t date black guys. He just wanted to know what it was like sexually. He was being a dick. But more than that he was being a racist. I have yet to see a gay White guy say to me “You know that was racist.” They all, to the person say, “well it was just sex.”
Jigae
@Interesting: That’s really screwed up. I’ve had similar things happen to me and never gotten satisfactory answers for the sudden loss of interest and it really messes with your head. Even though he said “he doesn’t date black guys” there are a million other reasons that could have happened. Maybe he had a secret boyfriend, maybe he didn’t feel like the chemistry was there, maybe he’s scared of things getting serious, or maybe he does have an issue with dating black guys. Regardless of the reasons for why he did what he did, he was still being racist when he gave you that for an answer.
I’m shocked that your white gay friends aren’t acknowledging this. But this doesn’t mean all white gays are like that. Maybe the people you’re talking to aren’t very sensitive. Maybe they don’t take sex or relationships that seriously. Maybe that’s their misguided way of trying to make you feel better. Maybe you need better friends or you need to tell these guys how they made you feel. This limited sample shouldn’t inform your perspective of “white gays” anymore than someone should let bad sex with one black/asian/hispanic/white/indian/native american/etc. guy convince them they’re not attracted to that ethnic group.
I feel like a lot of this ongoing Queerty argument has to do with miscommunication from all sides and people working through bad past experiences. I think it’s hard to have a debate where one (white/privileged) person is talking in hypotheticals and another is dealing with their daily, lived experience. It makes for a very charged and somewhat unproductive debate.
Interesting
@Jigae: (a) I don’t care what motivated him to say it. It was bigoted. That’s all I needed to know about him. (b) I don’t talk about it with my present friends who met many years later. I dumped most of the circle of White guys I knew back then. I think back on myself back then and I was damaged for haging out with those guys, but I dealt with my own issues over my own race. that’s why I am able to spot others who still have these issues. The only White guy in my 20s that I would still be friends with was one that I did not even understand, and I lost touch with. Very authentic. We were at a White gay bar. The bartender and the staff were ignoring me, and he basically told them that if they didn’t stop he would never come back to the bar. Another time, he his partner kicked out some Log Cabin Republican types who refused to speak to me and the other people of color at his party. He was high maintenance, but I have since realized that some people are worth putting a bit more effort into if they are that good hearted.The White guys I know now aren’t racist. I know this because we are able to talk about racial issues, and they don’t make me, as is the case here, feel like there is something wrong with having the discussion. If anything, they talked about it more than I did in the past. More importantly, if I do have something to say, they don’t dismiss it.
Let me make something clear: I don’t think all Whites are racist. No more than I think there are Blacks without prejudice. My issue with this discussion is that whenever racism in the gay White community comes up, their a quick denial,”you are crazy to even suggests such problems exist,” and then it turns into a fight just to not be denied the basic truth.
If this were just Grindr, which I don’t frequent, I wouldn’t give a shit. That site seems like a cesspool , racist or not, and its not because of the hook up, but because of the dehumanization. Sex should be fun and connecting, not dehumanizing. I think a lot of people here are getting at the dehumanization. racial attitudes should be understood in that context. Its not about who people want to fuck.
I am a guy attracted at this point to all races. Although i tend towards Black, Latinos, Middle Easterners and White guys, for example, I have dated and am attracted also to Asians (although they have not traditionally been attracted to me as a Black guy). That didn’t used to be the case. I had a lot of baggage to work out. I simply don’t believe people when they say they don’t have racial baggage. That its just preference and nothing more. Quite often what I sense is a lack of willingness to confront racial attitudes. A guy will say “I am not attracted to Blacks” but what they really mean is all that baggage about what they have been told by society to like or worse yet their assumptions about what all Blacks are like. Not everyone needs to be attracted to everyone. But when this sort of things occurs at the frequency it does- not just between blacks and whites, but other races, then race is an issue in our society , and we need to explore racial attitudes.
Jigae
@Interesting: I think this
makes a lot of sense. Thanks — you gave me a lot to think about.
ewe
Why should I give a fuck! Hispanic, black, Asian, Arib. They won’t fuck me anyway.
kylew
@IMHO: No, respectfully, YOU’RE missing the point. You can have all the philosophical debates about the nature of preference and the subtlety of racism and social conditioning, but these are not issues that the average grindr users is willing to consider when they are horny and looking. People don’t use grindr because they want to challenge racial stereotypes. I’m not even sure if it’s medium used by deep thinkers at all. People who want to stimulate their minds might perhaps be more likely to establish relationships the traditional way, where yu get to know someone’s mind and personality before their face. grindr is by its nature vacuous. It is what it is, and expecting philosophical musings from a guy with his dick out and his radar scanning is crazy.
kylew
@Interesting: I certainly don’t think that just because something is do with fucking that makes all ills acceptable. But what I am saying, is if you willingly join a community where everyone agrees to be part of a meat market, you can’t complain if you are all dehumanised and reduced to the component parts that appeal to the “buyers'” libido.
You know I don’t know exactly what racism is any more. I know if I say I hate black people because they are different, that’s racism. But what if I say I dislike black people because they are aggressive or have cultural values that I hate? What if I say I hate south african males because they are blase about aids? What if I say I hate black people because they are the largest causers of gang violence?
I don’t know if any of the hates I stated are real, and I don’t feel that way. But I am culturally ill at ease around black people.
To look at your example of the guy who slept with you as an experiment, I agree, he was simply being a dick. I don’t know why he doesn’t date black guys or if that makes him a racist, but I get as sick of black people screaming “racism” all the time as you do about white guys denying it.
I’m absolutely certain that racism exists in the gay community. My experience of black people in general has not been tremendously positive, and that makes me leary, but I will always try to give every person of any race a fair chance. Perhaps I am a little more cautious with black people, whom I DO find to be aggressive, defensive and culturally alien. I don’t even consider that unreasonable – just a sensible response to past experience.
Political correctness can be really crippling. Even in this post, I was going to go through it and substitute a variety of races so that it doesn’t look like I’m talking exclusively about blacks, even though I am.
GuS
I LIKE BLACKS AND ASIANS. I SCREW THEM THEN I EAT THEM.
Johnson
@GuS: Are you Jeffrey Dahmer’s reincarnate?
Stephen
I am of mixed race heritage. I am black and white but grew up in a black culture and consider myself to be a black man. Although many mistake me for being white a lot of the times. I remember going on dates with white guys and black guys too who say flat out that they are only attracted to white guys and then when I tell them that I am part black they start getting weird and I usually never hear from them again.
I think it really points out how racist this whole ´preference´ thing is because everything was cool when the person thought I was white but then when they find out that I am black, they start getting weird?! They are not only rejecting a person because of their skin color but a perception of what blackness is. Because I am black I do x, y and z, which means there couldn´t possibly be a connection. Black culture and blackness is a whole range of things. But I think a lot of people who have these false preferences have a very narrow idea of what it is to be fem, fat, asian, black or whatever. While the same rules don´t apply for white people. These people are only limiting themselves with a possibility of love. Love is random and uncontrollable and isn´t fixed on narrow preferences of another human being. I feel sorry for people like that.
Astro
people are generally too lazy to dig down deep and ask themselves questions about how cultural/society/media norms dictate there preferences in things, in yes including sex. You are bombarded the second you get out of the womb by images, and in the digital age even more than ever. people seriously think this doesn’t color how they think about things?
Por Supuesto
@Mike in Asheville: LOL
Katt
I Katt, am the black person sitting uncomfortably while you non-black folk make racist and insesitive comments in hopes of reaching some consensus on how to make us minorities feel more comfortable in/out of your beds.
I’VE LISTENED TO THIS CONVERSATION FOR DAYS NOW. PLEASE SHUT THE F*CK UP!!!!
kylew
@Katt: You don’t have to read it Katt – this is an opt in thread. That’s exactly the aggression that I’m talking about…
Little Kiwi
the crux of the argument, beginning with our article in Fab, has been INTENT and MOTIVATION.
one may not be into ______, but the moment they say “no _____s” or apply one of their food analogies (“No Fried Chicken or Rice”, anyone?) their true colours get shown. it’s not just a preference – it’s an outright prejudice.
our article has sparked a LOT of talk – the most interesting, albeit sad, aspect is how sincerely out of touch far too many gay men are, especially white ones. people are saying “hey, this culture of ‘no fats fems asians or blacks’ is a negative thing.” and instead we get whiny boys saying “you can’t tell me what to fuck! this is free speech!”
well, nobody at any point has told you “whom you have to fuck” and it has nothing to do with freedom of speech. it’s asking you to first think more carefully about the speech you use, and if at all possible think more carefully about why you like what you like.
of course this is lost on nearly all the “dissenting voices” who would rather do no thoughtful work at all and instead scream loudly about their right to prove to everyone how stupid they are. so keep it up, boys.
intent and motivation.
http://littlekiwilovesbauhaus.blogspot.com/2011/08/thats-just-racism.html
could anyone here say this guy isn’t clearly perpetuating a learned racial prejudice???
http://littlekiwilovesbauhaus.blogspot.com/2011/09/carrying-self-hatred-into-adulthood.html
could anyone here say this guy isn’t clearly perpetuating the insecure self-loathing homophobia that’s kept him being ashamed of being gay his whole life??
http://littlekiwilovesbauhaus.blogspot.com/2011/09/carrying-self-hatred-into-adulthood.html
Green Guys Are Hot
@Interesting: Your thoughts and your story are extremely interesting. May I ask you a question? Do you wish that you would have developed your current sense of self earlier in your life? I only ask because I think a lot of black gay men finally realize truth later in life (and in gay life, later sometimes makes you too old to do anything about it; like it’s too late as it concerns the gay community).
Regardless, your comments are right on the money.
Chad
I agree with Zachary Sire, we all have our own preferences and just because you’re not attracted to someone of a certain race that does not mean that you are racist or somehow a “douchebag”.
I’m personally not attracted to Black or Asian men, or twinks at all, would it be better than to somehow lie and pretend that I am when I know fully well that I’m not and that it would be a waste of my time and their time?
I have friends who are black who refuse to date or get involved with men who are not black because they’re sick and tired of being treated as an object of said non-black person’s race fetishism or if they’re a bisexual or gay man who is black they’re sick of the non-black men who want them only for their “big black dick” yet nobody is saying that black gay and bisexual men who refuse to get involved with white men or men who are not black are somehow “racist” or “douchebags”.
Art
Grindr it’s what it is…. But this open a conversation about race that we need to have….. As multiracial person I find it fascinating. Sorry to say, the level of superiority coming from a lot white men is hard to stomach…. As well as the level of inferiority coming from minorities ( I hate the word). Tire of seeing this young black Asian Latino guys with ugly old white guys… You know what I’m talking about …. Sorry to be so brutal, but I hate that so many white guy think that you are just sexually available to them because u are a minority or that they are doing you a favor by fraking you! …. And even if they like you would never consider being in a relationship with you.
I use to stupidly think that gay men would be less racist because as a minority they would understand what exclusion does to people…. Sadly, I was wrong. But, the biggest problem I find is that we are a small part of the population… you take out lesbians, age appropriate gay men, geography, ect. you are not left with a lot of choices.
What white guys don’t fundamentaly get is that race exclusion is not an option for many of us! It’s very frustrating to find someone around your age with a comparable education Level, that lives near you, that you find funny, and most importantly that can stand your level of crazy…… you add to that race,….. I would die alone!!!
Art
Grindr it’s what it is…. But this open a conversation about race that we need to have….. As multiracial person I find it fascinating. Sorry to say, the level of superiority coming from a lot white men is hard to stomach…. As well as the level of inferiority coming from minorities ( I hate the word). Tired of seeing this young black, Asian, Latino guys with ugly old white guys… You know what I’m talking about …. Sorry to be so brutal, but I hate that so many white guys think that you are sexually available to them because you’re a minority or that they are doing you a favor by fraking you! …. And even if they like you, they would never consider being in a relationship with you because of race. And sadly this experience is not uncommon.
I use to stupidly think that gay men would be less racist because as a minority they would understand what exclusion does to people…. Sadly, I was wrong. But, the biggest problem I find is that we are a small part of the population… you take out lesbians, age appropriate gay men, geography, ect. you are not left with a lot of choices.
What white guys don’t fundamentaly get is that race exclusion is not an option for many of us! It’s very frustrating to find someone around your age with a comparable education Level, that lives near you, that you find funny, and most importantly that can stand your level of crazy…… you add to that race,….. A lot of us would die alone!
Little Kiwi
“I agree with Zachary Sire, we all have our own preferences and just because you’re not attracted to someone of a certain race that does not mean that you are racist or somehow a “douchebag””
You prove the rest of us right, and yourself wrong Chad.
it’s not that you’re not “attracted to SOMEONE of a certain race” – it’s that you’re not attracted to ANYONE from a certain race. their being from that “certain race” is the factor that turns you off. you’re conditioned to not find their entire ethnic group appealing or attractive or in your concept of beauty.
and the point that you, and that idiot Zachary Sire, ignore is that the Fab article is about THE LANGUAGE PEOPLE USE. Their refusal to first check themselves and ask themselves if what they’re saying really should be said, and its possibly negative side-effects, and second question themselves on their ‘preferences’ – how can you say, for sure, that you will never find an Asian or Black guy attractive? You know, in advance, that every single asian or black person will be unattractive to you? Yeah. That doesn’t sound like racism at all. Suuuuuure.
“I’m personally not attracted to Black or Asian men, or twinks at all, would it be better than to somehow lie and pretend that I am when I know fully well that I’m not and that it would be a waste of my time and their time?”
No. It would be better that you keep your prejudiced preferences to yourself. And maybe when a black or asian guy “wastes your time” by messaging you, you can simply and polititely say “thanks, but not looking” or “thanks dude, very nice, but not really my type.” You boys, instead, keep defending your ‘right’ to act like douchebags about your preferences. Your preferences don’t make you the asshole, how you ARE about your preferences make you an asshole.
But the fact that you claim that you know, before meeting the individual, and before having seen every Asian or black guy, that you will not be attracted to them speaks volumes about your actual prejudices deep down. you have an issue with their ethnicities – there’s no way around it. the turn-off IS their ethnicity. you don’t see people, you see Blacks and Asians. That proves the rest of us right.
this ‘debate’ is like when you get stupid white people who say “Why is there B.E.T.? That’s like racist, there’s no ‘White Enterainment Television’ network….”
yeah. that’s because the “white entertainment networks” are called ABC, FOX, NBC, CBS, LOGO, Etc…
Aiden
@Kev C: Even when the black person is gay?
Mike
Yeah, “no fats, no fems, no blacks, under 30” or whatever can be obnoxious. However, I’d rather offend someone I’m never going to meet (because I offended them) then use wussy, non-offensive, politically-correct, touchy-feely descriptors and then have to deal with this shit in person. And that’s not a matter of being a coward. That’s the difference of pissing someone off without meeting them or humiliating them (and wasting both our time) in person. I choose the former.
And I think what’s forgotten in the argument here is that the one using the offensive language isn’t always the biggest asshole in the equation. We’ve likely all met the guy who just isn’t our type and is extremely aggressive and / or turns into a real douche bag when you say you’re not interested, no matter how delicately it’s put. Let’s say I’m not into heavy guys. If there’s someone who’s not morbidly obese but reasonably overweight and only reads in my posting that I’m into guys who are “in good shape,” this guy may either be fooling himself into thinking he’s not as fat as he is, or that in person, I’ll just figure “oh fuck it, I’m horny” and reluctantly be okay with it. However, if I write “NO fatties!” he might think “What an asshole” and move on. Either way, he’s not going to be sucking my cock, so let’s waste each other’s time.
As for ethnic preferences, don’t call me racist because I’m not into white guys, or I’m only into Asian guys, or I’m looking specifically for a black guy with an Irish brogue and long blonde hair. Blame my dick. Call it racist, it doesn’t give a fuck. Seems a huge part of the argument here is “It doesn’t matter what gets YOUR dick hard; if someone else finds you attractive, you’re obligated to have sex with them because no one’s feelings should ever be hurt. We want everyone to have a positive self-image even if you’ve got someone who completely skeeves you crawling all over you.” Yeah, have fun with that, boys. I’ll stick to being the asshole who fucks the men he’s attracted to.
Kev C
@Aiden: It should be obvious that I’m being somewhat facetious. However, if a person is raised in a homophobic society, and they value that society, ie, that want the respect of their peers, or because it’s a provides them with a structure, a power base to build upon, they will emulate the homophobia of that society in order to gain the respect and acceptance of their peers.
So, yeah.
Little Kiwi
@Mike: “Yeah, have fun with that, boys. I’ll stick to being the asshole who fucks the men he’s attracted to.”
I love how you dunces seem to be intentionally missing the point of the articles. nobody is telling you whom to fuck – we’re saying you don’t need to be such a fucking douchebag asshole about how you word it in your profiles.
i’ve been hit on by guys whom i was attracted to. i said “thanks but no thanks”.
you, apparently, seem to think your time on Grindr is just oh-so-precious that you can’t POSSIBLY spare a moment to be polite, or to even use the block button which would save you even more time. No. You feel a need to blatantly be rude right up front. And then defend it. THAT is why you’re a douchebag asshole. Not because of your preferences, but your arrogance about them.
And it’s not your dick that’s racist, it’s your brain.
Jigae
Once things cross over into accusations of being sizeist, I start to wonder where we draw the line. Is it ok to indicate a preference for the smart, funny, well-traveled, or well-read? Or is that also an unacceptable form of snobbery/classism? I know this is a slippery slope argument, but why is it wrong to indicate that we’d like someone with similar interests and passions as ourselves? For some (often boring) dudes, working out really is their main passion — why shouldn’t they look for someone similar?
I think ‘no fems, fatties, etc. etc.’ sounds stupid and offensice as does ‘musc./musc. ub2.” but trying to guilt trip people who’ve made a huge investments in their bodies to ‘interrogate the erotic potential of the other’ is a big waste of time. Numerous studies suggest a biological drive to seek a ‘healthy’ partner. This is an instinct that goes deeper than culture.
Rebuttal from the peanut gallery with no scientific support but randomly capitalized words in 5,4, 3, 2, 1…
Mike
@Little Kiwi:
“you, apparently, seem to think your time on Grindr is just oh-so-precious that you can’t POSSIBLY spare a moment to be polite, or to even use the block button which would save you even more time. No. You feel a need to blatantly be rude right up front. And then defend it. THAT is why you’re a douchebag asshole. Not because of your preferences, but your arrogance about them.
And it’s not your dick that’s racist, it’s your brain.”
Yeah – my time is precious when I’m fucking horny. So is the other guy’s. I absolutely defend being honest if it’s going to save everyone time and trouble. Maybe I am usually not turned on by Amish Eskimos. Maybe 99.9% of Amish Eskimos do nothing for me. So I put “NO Amish Eskimos” in the post. I’ve pissed off the entire gay Amish Eskimo community on Grindr, but no one’s time is wasted. Then next week I’m at a handcrafted totem pole bazaar and meet this wonderful Amish Eskimo and we fall in love and move to his farm in Alaska, ride off into the sunset on his black laquered dog sled and live happily ever after, spending the weekends churning whale blubber and attending igloo-raisings. So how am I racist when I fucking end up marrying Nanook Zebediah? I’m not talking about hating different ethnicities. I’m talking about getting laid with someone who I’m into, and vice-versa, and hopefully quickly.
Little Kiwi
Yes. You just proved me right. You care more about your “right to say something” rather than being intellectually honest and questioning yourself to wonder if, in fact, it’s really the right thing to say.
Thank you. You proved my point for me. You don’t care about those who talk about the harmful feelings of racial prejudice that it perpetuates. you’re too busy thinking about your white cock getting sucked. You refuse to question your use of language because you don’t care how it affects others.
thanks. like i said, you just proved our point for us.
Mike
@Jigae:
“Randomly capitalized words.” Heh heh.
“I think ‘no fems, fatties, etc. etc.’ sounds stupid and offensice as does ‘musc./musc. ub2.” but trying to guilt trip people who’ve made a huge investments in their bodies to ‘interrogate the erotic potential of the other’ is a big waste of time.”
I agree. It sounds stupid and offensive but it works. I’ve been the fatty. And when I was the fatty, I still wasn’t into other fatties, but that was largely who I was limited to. I was into guys who were in good shape. It’d be nice to hook up with someone in good shape if they were into me (and some were), but I didn’t feel there was any obligation on their part to hook up with me simply because I found THEM (random capitalization) attractive. I would not want to have sex with someone who wasn’t enjoying it, I don’t care how hot their body is.
So I worked my ass off and got back in shape. And, sorry guys, no one seriously overweight is getting a pity fuck from me just because I was there. Get off your ass and get back in shape and you can be one of us anonymous and obnoxious douche bags having sex with the people we’re attracted to. Meet me outside of a hookup situation and I automatically look past the visuals and we’ll charm each other with our fucking wit.
I still think the other side to this argument is weak, especially when you bring porn into the equation. If you’re into a certain look or type, you’re going to watch that type of porn. If I’m not into white / daddy / bear types, does it make my racist and ageist and hair…ist if I choose not to click on that type of video online? And if not, why not? Whoops, there goes the other side’s argument.
Little Kiwi
@Jigae:
right. because with all the “huge investments” they’ve put into their bodies heaven forbid they do any intellectual investments to find out who they are and why they are that way.
guys, they can’t take the time for intellectual self-reflection because they’re too busy with the Huge Investment they need to make on their bodies.
that sounds like a fabulously rich experience in life.
😉
http://youtu.be/hnw1sEZ_sus
Alfonzo
@redmont:
Nobody’s telling you to internalize it, they’re just stating there is a much more constructive way of getting what you want. While its easier to say what you don’t like, it benefits both yourself and the kind of person you’re looking for to say what you ARE looking for.
Then again, it does make it much easier for people like me to weed out this kind of person who speaks in negatives.
Little Kiwi
@Mike:
“If you’re into a certain look or type, you’re going to watch that type of porn. If I’m not into white / daddy / bear types, does it make my racist and ageist and hair…ist if I choose not to click on that type of video online? And if not, why not? Whoops, there goes the other side’s argument.”
not really. if you’re not intelligent enough to understand the underlying racial prejudices in culture and how they do indeed manifest as “preferences” then you’re just proving that there’s a lot that you don’t.
we live in a world that worships whiteness, maleness and heterosexuality above all else.
“no fats fems asians or blacks”
the more you guys choose to ignore this, the more you prove us right and prove yourselves to be intellectually-stunted dolts.
Mike
@Little Kiwi: “Thank you. You proved my point for me. You don’t care about those who talk about the harmful feelings of racial prejudice that it perpetuates. you’re too busy thinking about your white cock getting sucked.”
You imply I’m racist and then automatically presume I’m white? My goodness, that’s the pot calling the kettle – oh dear, I really can’t finish that statement without “proving your point” further, can I?
Little Kiwi, you’re a complete hypocrite and are just as racist as those you rail against.
Michael
I do not care in all honesty as long as they are humble and have a good heart thats really all that matters.To each their own though.
Little Kiwi
are you white, Mike? 😀
Little Kiwi
i can put a face to my comments. can you put a face to yours, Mike? 😀
jeremy
so i guess im a bigoted racist cunt because i am 24 and dont want a 40+ 300lb “daddy” type. i work hard to stay in shape and i it makes me feel good to see my hardwork show off in my general health…we are attracted to what we are attracted to it doesnt mean we are racist people. this article is waht promotes the internal fighting in our community. lets be honest we all have a “type” and when someone tells me im wrong because i have self set standards then who the fuck are they? sorry but both sides are wrong. i am partial to white and latino men, am i a racist? hell the fuck no and if anyone ever called me a racist in person id beat thier ass. i know what i like plain and simple. i live in the DEEEEEEEEEEP south where tbh i was first exposed to racism in america, i have seen it in other countries but never here until i moved to south carolina. i have tons of black friends and fucking adore them to bits, ive even slept with black men before. so fuck both sides, use your fucking head, and stop with the goddamn labels people. as far as im fucking concerned if ur american ur fucking american and the color of your skin is meaningless, but if u dont find a person attractive fuck anyone who thinks they can cast judgement on you for it.
Little Kiwi
yeah. it’s so unfair ehwn people cast judgement on you boys who cast judgment on entire ethnic groups. right?
yeah. how dare those people judge you for pre-judging all asians and black guys in the same way.
” hell the fuck no and if anyone ever called me a racist in person id beat thier ass.”
unlikely. guys like you are all talk.
Chad
Kiwi clearly you did not read my post.
We all have our own preferences and there’s nothing wrong with writing your own personal preferences in a profile on Grindr, other hook up apps, or on a hook up site. I’m sexually attracted to white men and Latino men but I’m not sexually attracted to black men or Asian men.
I’m not sexually attracted to women or Transmen either but nobody is claiming that I’m somehow a misogynist because I’m not attracted to women or women who have had cosmetic surgery and still will be biologically and genetically female, and have a vagina.
I’m not into obese men either does that somehow make me “Fat phobic”? I agree with Jeremy we all have a type or types and it does not make someone racist because someone of a certain race is someone that they’re not sexually attracted to at all.
Get over yourself Kiwi. I’ve had black men fetishize me because of my race and yeah it was very creepy and annoying.
Franco
I believe anytime you write “no fats, femmes, or Asians,” you’re discriminating. Sure, some people have a preference, but I often find that’s code for “I’m shallow.” If every gay youth would realize that one day they too will be old, fat and ugly (like many of them write on their Grindr profiles) they would be a hell of a lot happier. We should be more open to diversity not only in our friendships, but our sexual partners. Variety is indeed the spice of life.
Jigae
@Mike: I relate to everything you said in your post @61. And it’s good to hear from someone who’s been through the same thing. I don’t know anything about some of the other people posting about this topic, but I would guess that we’ve both “interrogated” our feelings about shape and size and our bodies more than some of the louder voices here have. If I met someone clever and awesome in real life, the body becomes a lot less important, but on an app like Grindr it’s a different story. Maybe we need a text-based version for people who don’t want to take appearance into consideration when meeting new people for one-night “friendship.”
As for the increasingly shrill voice of Little Kiwi: I find it problematic when a skinny, young, photogenic, white dude takes it upon himself to start a pogrom against people who are “oppressing” the “fat,” “old,” or “less attractive” other. Want to discuss the offensive nature of the white man’s burden? Postcolonialist discourse about exploiting the exotic other while telling yourself you’re using your privilege to help? You need to interrogate your sh-t before you shout at us about our unexplored issues.
I’m done with this.
NickadooLA
For the most part, I’m not attracted to black men. However, there’s been many exceptions to that rule. For the most part, I’m not attracted to older men. Again, there’s been many exceptions to that rule. I can’t say with any certainty that my personal preferences haven’t been shaped by the culture, and I can hardly deny that our culture is both racist and ageist.
My lack of physical desire for certain groups or types isn’t exactly something I’m particularly proud of, and feel it has no place on a dating/hookup profile. Stating who you are and what you want is far more appealing than yammering on about who you’re not and what you don’t want. Hell, I don’t respond to people who have “no blacks, no Asians,” in their profile as I find it distasteful and assume I’d be dealing with someone with a negative personality.
Being able to articulate what you want is not only a far more positive way to portray yourself, it’s also a hell of a lot sexier.
…and if I happen to meet a fine older black man who rocks my world, I don’t need to risk insulting him with borderline-racist language.
Franco
People need to learn to not take themselves so seriously. Why eliminate an entire group of people from your list? Makes no sense.
Foxy Loxy
@ No. 69 jeremy: You sound so screwed up. You are partial to white/latinos, but you have “even slept with black men before.” What the crap does that prove, you racist little cunt. So you’ve slept with black men before. What do you want, a cookie? And, I hope I meet you someday. I will call you a racist to your face and if you think you’re gonna kick my ass…you’re as stupid as your parents claim you are.
Pdub
Wow, I wonder what young kids who are just coming out must think of the gay world?
I love that sites like “Douchebags of Grindr” call out the growing breed of gay/bi/closeted douchbags. You know, the ones that don’t have any connection between being gay/bi and being a decent human being.
We hear a lot about youth suicides and almost all of us know, first hand, about experiencing bullying. Yet, some folks, in our god-given right to pursue getting laid, see no problem in shitting on other people. Like what you like. Freedom of choice is a right. Just stop shitting on other people, shut up and fuck who you want.
Young kids are killing themselves because people are cruel and mean; constantly barraged with messages of hate – and it’s not just people like the Bachmanns or closeted jocks in high school, it includes gay men when they communicate their desires.
I don’t think you’re automatically a racist if you’re not “into” folks of color but racism has certainly played a part in what we artificially define as ideal beauty. (Think of the porn you were first exposed to or what faces you see in any fitness mag or beauty ad campaign.) I’d argue you might be a racist if you’re looking for friendship and state “no Latinos, Asians, or Blacks”. (Sure you can have your preferences, we all do, but “preferences” don’t magically make racist actions go away.) If you live in a multicultural place and find that you only have friends of the same race, I’d say check yourself.
Imagine a young Asian, Black or Latino kid is freaking out about being gay. He’s being verbally and physically harassed at school for being different. He goes into the gay world hoping for support and for a place he could find acceptance to deal with his thoughts of suicide. And then, in the real-time and online gay worlds, he’s constantly told that he’s not worth talking to or worth being treated as a person – simply pre-judged for his race – similar to the way folks pre-judged all of us for being gay. Would you tell him to just suck it up? Get over it? Don’t be so sensitive? Really?
Look at all the polite (and not so polite) generalizations of the different races in the comments above. Black are all this way…Asians are all that way…Um, that’s racism. If you have a problem with that take it up with Websters.
Online we all get hit on by guys that we don’t find attractive – regardless of race. Most of us simply ignore the messages. Some of us might go so far in sending a simple “No thanks, not a match”-type message back. But for some reason, a few folks think that, in the 150 characters that you have to you have to express yourself, that singling out a race is the best way they can express yourself. That’s kinda fucked up. Nothing about sexual position preference, personality, perspective on life, just “No (RACE)” And that has a strong likelihood of fucking up young people. You’re basically or literally telling someone they are sub-human and not worthy of common decency. Hmm, sound familiar?
Let’s admit it, racism is normalized in pop gay culture (think who is on the cover of most gay rags or who is on the masthead of a publication). I don’t say that to make anyone feel guilty or defensive. But we need to acknowledge it and let that affect our interactions with each other. Real gay kids are really killing themselves. The homophobia, racism, transphobia, sexism, etc that they feel is real. Why are gay/bi men adding to the problem?
It is possible to get laid and not be a douchebag.
No Douchebags – sorry, just my preference. (Yup, that’s as stupid as it sounds.)
You’d think a group of people that have experienced oppression would think to treat other people with a little more care and thoughtfulness.
Thank you, Alex for a thoughtful article.
PS – Fear of a Femme Planet: Are there that many femme guys that we need to warn the President of this impending doom? Judging from the amount of “No Femme” ads online you’d think so. Or maybe its posts by guys that are so scared of being labeled a “sissy fag” because they can’t stop thinking of sticking a big dick up their “straight-acting” asses. Wow, that’s new: picking on other people to feel better about yourself – it’s like a bad Glee episode. Own your shit boys – and keep your shit to yourself.
Interesting
@Green Guys Are Hot: Yes, actually, I do, but, life is too short for regrets. At the end of the day, I am a creative person, and I would not have the rich view of life that I did if things hadn’t happened as they did. If I hadn’t been forced to be introspective. to deal with my own baggage and those of others. On that level, I am happy things didn’t come so easy because I am in the last few years truly developing a creative voice that I think is unique, and that is something that makes me very happy.
Interesting
@Art: Agree. I have an advanced degree. Finding any guy- black, white or whatever has always been hard a black guy who happens to be smart and kind of a geek. I have a good set of friends right now. My mentor- a black older gay man with several PhDs- and I talk about this particular issue a lot. He’s been lucky to be in many long term relationships. He has a strong sense of self worth. He says that the problem is that society tells gay men they aren’t suppose to have self worth, and that issue is compounded for black gay men, and compounded even further if you are a smart person (regardless of race, class or whatever other description). There’s not easy solution to any of this other than searching around to find people who are cool and will give of themselves.
Randall
Guys think its their right to turn down each other for a variety of reasons, ranging from hair color to STD status. Why race-and especially mannerisms-should occupy such a privileged place in the hierarchy of gay life is what really floors me. The genderfreaks shouldn’t be entitled to any sort of special privilege.
Ted C.
If you hang out with a wide variety of guys, you end up attracted to a wide variety of guys.
If you say you’re not attracted to Blacks or Asians… well, I can’t hold your preferences against you. But I think it’s a sign that something greater is wrong with your life.
Interesting
@Ted C.: One of the reasons I am suspicious of any one stating, “I have many friends who are [insert the color], but I only date White guys” is exactly because of what you wrote. Everyone of my White friends, several of whom ended up in relationships with other White guys, have dated people of other color. They are comfortable around people of color, and dating was an offshoot from that comfort.
Ray
The gay dating world is a jungle. Many gays are just plain clones or into very specific types. People are rejected all of the time for not having enough muscles, for being bottoms, versatiles, tops, for not dressing in leather, or in western styles, or preppy clothing, for not being hairy enough, for not being smooth enough, for not having pot bellies, for not being skinny enough, for being to fem or to butch, etc.
As unpleasant as it may be to see someone include in their profile, I don’t want men of this race or ethnicity, etc., I think that it’s better to see that off the top. Face it, if you are of a certain ethnicity and you see right away that someone doesn’t want you, because of your group, then you will not contact that person [unless you’re a masochist] and that way avoid rejection down-the-line.
I mean, chances are that if someone doesn’t like me because of my group, I won’t want to be with them anyway.
Interesting
@Ray: No one gives a fuck, once again, who you screw. That’s not the conversation. Its interesting you go on and on about the “gay community” but you up just being another non-thinker who talks only about himself.
water for elephants
@Ray: Picture me at my computer hoping that you contract AIDS and that someone white or latino straight guy beats the warm blood right out of your body. I also hope that your dad will have absolutely nothing to do with your gayness. If this is all true, it’s the only explanation I will accept for why you are such a racist pig. That was a poor “reverse psych” explanation for why white guys won’t date others.
Chitown kev
@NickadooLA:
OK.
Now I can deal with that. Not a problem.
Sexy
This is hilarious, fucking hilarious. i’ve hooked up with plenty of international gay dudes and they don’t seem to have a long list of “preferences” like MANY American gays and to be frank american gays are some of the ugliest but think they are every gay man’s fantasy fuck. NO ASIANS,NO BLACKS,NO FATS, NO FEMMES. Hilarious, silly americans, silly, silly americans
Little Kiwi
what i love most about this whole firestorm of dialogue that’s been opened is that there has yet to be a single intelligent, rational, fact-based and reasoned “rebuttal” from those who defend racist preferences.
the original article was about THE LANGUAGE being used in this profiles. a lot of people clearly didn’t understand that.
the secondary issue of the societal base of attraction and concepts of beauty came from the ignorant retorts of “no! i’m allowed to not like what i like! it’s just a preference! you can’t tell me whom to fuck! am i anti-woman for being gay?!?”
No. But you are an idiot, clearly.
it’s also worth noting that only you white boys are getting all angrily defensive about this. truth hurts, eh chumps?
http://littlekiwilovesbauhaus.blogspot.com/2011/10/work.html
Little Kiwi
@Chad: And Chad, I did read your post. It’s not my fault that I’m smarter than you.
You don’t like blacks or Asians. Conrgats. You’re as sexually hip and with-it as my grandmother who is in her late 90s.
You don’t see black guys or asian guys as individuals – you see them as “asians” and “blacks”
Congrats.
I don’t need to “get over myself” – you need to get over YOURself – you’re the one whose head is so far up his own ass that he refuses to do the intellectual work to interrogate your own perceptions, attractions and find out WHY you like what you like.
Comparing innate orientations to societal concepts of attraction only proves me right. You don’t get it. And I wont apologize for being smarter than you.
http://littlekiwilovesbauhaus.blogspot.com/2011/10/work.html
DB
@Timmmeeeyyy!!!: Thank you. It is annoying that some people do not understand that Hispanics (like Anglos) can be of any race. Most Uruguayans and Spaniards are white, most Dominicans and Cubans are black, most Bolivians and Guatemalans are Indians, and most Mexicans are mestizo.
Little Kiwi
my boyfriend is of mixed-ethnicity. over the years when guys with “no blacks and asians” in their profile would hit him up he’d reply with “too bad i’m part black and part asian, huh?”
then they’d get angry. as the white boys on here are getting angry. it’s so fucking funny.
you’re allowed to judge all “Blacks and Asians” in the same way, and disregard them as individuals because all you see is THE ETHNICITY, and yet you get all butt-hurt and angry when people “judge you” for judging them.
Lefty
@Anonymous: “Gays are inherently racist which will unfortunately lead to the ultimate demise of the gay. We are self destructive as individuals and as a community. We don’t deserve to get married or serve in the military or to have equal rights because we build walls rooted in racism and call it “preferences”. Just call it what it is. RACISM.”
BZZT!
DB
Anyone who is such a pathetic loser that he cannot meet people in real life and has to use a cell phone smartphone application to try to meet someone, is definitely not worth touching.
Ray
@Interesting:
Where on earth did I discuss in my post who I screw? You clearly have reading comprehension problems. My point is that race is a choice no different than any of the myriad of choices that gays make in selecting mates/sex partners. Are people limiting themselves? Yes, they are. Are they keeping potentially wonderful men out of their lives by setting these limitations, yes, they are. But I don’t think that its any different than someone who likes blonds as opposed to brunettes, or someone who only likes Asians to the exclusion of blacks and Caucasians.
If you want to interpret it as racist, fine, go ahead. I’m not going to argue with you. Quite frankly, I don’t enjoy debating people who make ad hominem attacks.
Ray
@water for elephants: Take a chill pill dude. You have serious anger management problems bordering on psychopathy. For your information, I prefer so-called men-of-color. My boyfriend happens to be a mulatto. Think before you shoot from the hip and start calling anyone a racist.
Interesting
@Ray: You are discussing this topic with your penis for a brain regardless of how you phrase it. If you think racial atittudes like anything else then you don’t get the conversation.
Wired
@Ray: You are indeed a retarded racist. Who uses the word “Mulatto?” A bonafide racist, that’s who. And, that your “Mulatto” lets you refer to him that way speaks volumes about how mentally retarded he is as well. Go play in a lion’s cage. You deserve an old school death.
Ray
@Wired: “Water-for-elephant” now writing under the screen name “Wired” continues with his little titty attacks. Dude, as I mentioned before, you need to control you anger there. Oh well, to be expected, every forum has a flamer. Tsk, tsk.
Interesting
@Ray: Mulatto is considered to be an offensive term by many because of its root being that of a mule. I agree with the other person that your lack of knowledge of that, and, if you are with some guy who happened to be of mixed or biracial background, who does not know that- says a lot. Not everyone believes its racist, but most of the arguments are a long the lines of those in this article that includes the best argument:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/indepth/words/mulatto.html
Meaning we should ignore the history of how the word came about. Whatever is the case, its the equivalent of a gay person calling himself a “fag” versus straight people doing it.
Context:
“The etymology of the term is uncertain. It may derive from the Spanish and Portuguese word mulato, which is itself derived from mula (from old Galician-Portuguese, from Latin m?lus), meaning mule, the hybrid offspring of a horse and a donkey.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulatto
Ray
@Interesting: It’s funny that you use the analogy of thinking with one’s penis. That’s precisely what most people on social forums like Grindr do, in fact, that’s why the gay bar scene has often been referred to as a meat market. Welcome to the world of gay dating.
If someone likes/is sexually attracted to the physiognomy of a certain ethnic group and puts down, I don’t want this or that other group, because he is focused on what he is looking for, I don’t think that’s racist. That’s just whom he prefers to sleep with. I know that you don’t see it that way, oh well, we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
I for instance know many white men who only sleep with black men and who are in committed loving relationships [not exploitative ones] with black men, would you label them racist against there own race, because that’s what they are sexually attracted to?
I think that the gay community is very focused. That’s why there are so many different types of bars out there. I know that the tendency is to look at it as racist, and I know that there are probably people who write I don’t want this or that group because they are genuinely racist, but my point is that not every one is that way.
Besides, if someone doesn’t like X race and he puts it down in his Grindr profile, unpleasant as it is, its better to know for the start. The more information one knows about the other person, the better. If you don’t want to sleep with me [OH WELL!], I’ll happily avoid you.
Ray
@Interesting: Spare us the lame etymology lessons and stick to the topic. First you use ad hominems and when you’re called on that, you try to smear me because of the use of one word which in your politically correct view is offensive to some.
You have very poor communication skills.
Interesting
@Ray: When I say “YOU” are thinking with your penis its because your entire presentation is all surface and obvious statements along the lines of “water is wet.” The point of this discussion, if you have not guessed, is to dig behind why people do what they do rather than simply say they do it. You really need to be more thoughtful- I am guessing that’s why you used the term mulatto. Living in a bubble of unchallenged views.
Interesting
@Ray: @Ray: I am guessing your mulatto does not challenge you that much if you think disagreeing with you is a logical fallacy.
Kev C
If people are arguing for better etiquette and nicer language, maybe they should start using it themselves. Wishing death upon people is not good etiquette.
Jay Pat
@jeff4justice: ..marry me? lol 😛
As I always say, it so gets better, as long as you’re white and “masc.” If not, well it kinda sort of gets better.
Having racial preferences IS racist. Its even worse when its a person of color saying they only date white boys.
Ever heard of those doll experiments where most of the kids say the white doll is the pretty one? Its just sad.
Btw, as a person of color it makes dating difficult. Not because I necessarily get rejected, but rather when guys say things like “Oh I’m not usually attracted to South Asians, but you’re hott”..go fuck yourself. <3
Ernst
Thought experiment: A white woman on Blendr (the straight counterpart to Grindr) writes on her profile, “Blacks & Asians, don’t even bother.” Is there anyone in their right mind who would think this woman is NOT racist?
Little Kiwi
look online for interracial porn. what will you find?
straight: black men gangbanging white girls. asian girls being dominated by white guys. very few videos of black women with white men.
try as hard as you can to find videos of white women with asian men. yeah. keep looking.
gay: black guys are dom thug tops and asians are ‘passive’
oh, and apparently Indians don’t exist as a culture/ethnicity. just blacks, white, latinos, asians, and the occasional “arabs”
Interesting
@Ernst: In fact, research shows that they are the most racist as far as who they will date. Again demonstrating that social attitudes are a powerful motivator of what people believe. I tried linking an article here about racial issues in dating online, but the 2 times I tried to link it, I was told it was spam, which was weird because it was a Newsweek article. The point being you are right to notice the double standard. Unfortunately this often happens within minority groups. ‘I have been personally oppressed so I have a right to oppress others” is just historical fact. The Jews coming from the Holocaust hating on blacks in NYC. Blacks hating on gays despite the discrimination that blacks receive. Women looking down on certain racial groups for dating despite their treatment as women. Empathy and recognition of ourselves in others apparently is not easy for us humans despite our literature and pop culture claims to the contrary.
Little Kiwi
the irish and polish immigrants being looked down on in the USA, until the new “enemy” were the Chinese with the Chinese Exclusion Act. The Poles and Irish then could rally in hating the Chinese to get the targets off their own backs. Then the Chinese found new standing during WWII when the Japanese became the new enemy, and many previously-persecuted Chinese found a way to avoid discrimination by helping discriminate against Japanese citizens in the US.
and on and on and on and on. ever notice how most gay republicans are racist and most non-white republicans are anti-gay? these minority groups suck up to the Bigots because they (drumroll please) hate each other. it’s both hilarious and pathetic.
siding with the bully in order to save one’s own ass by attacking another. of course it’s societal.
look at this complete coward right here. he’s swallowed and accepted anti-gay bigotry in society and his only way to feel safe and secure as a gay man is to boast of “how not gay he is” in hopes he wins the approval of bigoted straight people. and his ideas of “things that look gay” are just freakin’ stupid. it’s pathetic beyond words.
http://littlekiwilovesbauhaus.blogspot.com/2011/09/carrying-self-hatred-into-adulthood.html
Interesting
@Little Kiwi: It takes a lot of work to undo social conditioning, and that work, when one is being oppressed, is even harder because one has even less time for introspection.
I checked out your site. My only additional element is that class also plays a big part in this.
Z Zing
Oh lord, when I hear another ugly arsehole (in every sense of the word), tell me what his preferences are? Let me hold myself back from wanting to hurl!
It’s sick and twisted with these asininse twats posting these racial taunts because of their skewed version of themselves. Only arseholes sit there in their self-agrandisement of “no this, that or the other” when in reality – no-one wants you not even yourself.
So whilst everyone takes a walk down race relations … take a moment and start pointing that preferential at yourselves. I mean really, when the hell are gay men (ESPECIALLY Caucasian gay men) ever going to grow up?
Chad
Kiwi-Blah blah blah keep talking out of your ass about me. I’m a total stranger and you don’t know shit about me.
I never said that I don’t see Asian people or black people as individuals, that’s something you’re claiming that I never said. I’m also not racist against black people or asian people I just am not sexually attracted to them.
Too bad for your boyfriend that nobody wants to have sex with him but that’s not my problem.
I have gay black friends and gay asian friends and we have talked about our own personal preferences when it comes to sex, dating, and relationships and no they’re not offended when I have told them how I’m personally not attracted to black men or asian men. My gay Asian friend has told me how he is not sexually attracted to white men yet I doubt you’d claim that he’s somehow “racist” because he refuses to date, sleep with, or have a relationship with a white man, black man, or anyone who is NOT an Asian man since he’s only attracted to other asian men like himself. Get over yourself, you’re not the gatekeeper for sexual attraction for all bisexual, gay, non-hetero men, and your post about porn was a joke yeah you can find porn where Asian men have sex with white women and where white men have sex with black women.
I don’t care if you think that you’re somehow more intelligent than I am. We’re not discussing intelligence at all and you’re resorting to ad-hominem attacks. You’re a troll and a rather tiresome one at that.
There’s no reason why I highly prefer and only have sexual attraction to white men and Latino men but I’m not sexually attracted to Asian men or Black men at all. Nobody has a choice in who they are sexually attracted to, and who they’re not sexually attracted to.
Aussie Bloke
wow you faggots are a bunch of racists faggots. You deserves to be despised and violently assaulted for being fags. ha!
s parker
Please just go back to posting pictures of shirtless white men. This kind of stuff is out of your league.