Four Michigan men are facing felony charges after hooking up with a teen boy they met at church on Grindr.
And before you jump to the same scenario that we initially did, that it was a wild group scene gone wrong that we initially did, the four accused met the boy independently.
The teen was 15 at the time, and absent from the story are a few key details. Did he lie about his age? Does he look older than his (admittedly very few) years?
While the law says it’s ultimately up to you to make sure you aren’t committing any child sex crimes when you get between the sheets, these seem like valid questions to us. We’ve seen some 25-year-olds who look 17, and vice versa.
How about we take this to the next level?
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One of the accused, Cody Hunter Swatling, is only 18 himself. He’s pictured to the right, and could easily pass for 28.
The other three are 24, 20 and 27.
Two of the men are being held on $500,000 bond.
They face charges ranging from accosting a child for immoral purposes, using a computer to commit the crime, possession of child sexuality abusive material and assault with intent to commit sexual penetration.
The alleged encounters were reported by a family member of the teen, who is now 16.
If you’re in a situation where you suspect a hookup might be underage, it’s not a bad idea to ask to see I.D. It sounds awkward, but it’s a hell of a lot less awkward than defending child sex crime accusations in court.
Christopher Schapker
It’s the Kid’s fault
Joe Payer
This is why I only like older men
BigG
Just ask for I.D. how hard is that?
sportsguy1983
Statutory rape is usually a “strict liability” crime, meaning that the intent or state of mind of the offender is irrelevant. So long as he or she had sex with someone under the statutory age of consent, he or she has committed the crime. So, what the offender thought, including what he or she thought was the victim’s true age, does not matter and will not be the basis of a defense to the crime. Even if an ID is shown, you are liable in most states if the “victim” is under legal age.
Skyler Weston Mays
When you sign up it asks you to confirm that you are at least 17 years of age. So this teen is definitely at fault here
Joe Eugene
I’ve had a few “18yos” suddenly become unavailable when I told them I’d be asking to see their ID. And probably more than one was an undercover cop sting thing, just on the odds. 18 is a ridiculous age of consent these days; it’s 16 in a lot of the world, including many developed nations.
natriley
This law is evil and it should be disputed. Why aren’t we talking about raising bail and developing a defense for these guys. Shouldn’t we be looking at the DA who appears to be a scoundrel. Is it a set up? Rather than protecting ourselves we should fight back. Where are the people of courage in Michigan?
Will Gore
And see, if they would have never used Grindr….none of this would have ever happened. Pitty
tusgold
i am just outraged over this arrest
Merv
DAs love to make names for themselves over crap like this. Instead, they should be using prosecutorial discretion. Just because they can prosecute doesn’t mean they should. If it’s clear that the adults didn’t know or suspect the kid was underage, and the kid lied, then they shouldn’t be prosecuted. Period. Also, the law should be changed to require criminal intent.
notevenwrong
So how many 18-year old boys are prosecuted for dating 15-year old girls?
notevenwrong
…and why, of the four, did Queerty decide to make things worse for the 18-year old, practically and in several respects legally a child, by publishing his picture?
DuMaurier
@Merv:
Right before your comment popped up I was about to ask the posters outraged by the law what specifically outraged them about it, and what they would replace it with. I hope your answer is the one they would give (in fact, in at least some jurisdictions a “reasonable belief” that the sexual partner was of age IS a defense); I was kind of afraid they were talking about ending all age of consent laws, or perhaps not applying them where the child is an “initiator” or “willing participant” in sex.
Augusto Kortright
Grindr ask your age before you creat a profile. If your under 17 you not suppose to creat a profile. This kid knew what he was doing.
Captain proton
some more sordid details – http://whmi.com/news/article/23666
Roland S. Burritt
15 is old enough to give consent when there has been no abuse of authority by an authority figure. A 15 year old arranging his own hookups with guys 10 yrs older on grindr is not authority abuse. Clearly the kid has control over his sexual agency. It’s time to update the laws so they are based more on logic, not superstition. Other countries have done that and the world hasn’t ended.
Tobi
Just lower the age of consent to 15, it works for Sweden and dozens of other countries.
Jim Wise
It is against the law for reasons that some find sound but, as a former fifteen year old, teens can and do choose. I don’t know all the circumstances here but, at face value, I find criminal charges against consensual desire offensive.
Glücklich
@Captain proton:
Oh my god, as if the one alleged perp’s life wasn’t bad enough, living in Flint and all.
Doughosier
Outrageous that people can go to jail because of this outdated, intrusive law.
enfilmigult
…does Grindr not have any kind of age verification for its users? Because if The Simpsons: Tapped Out at least makes you enter your age to play it, I’d be boggled if a hookup app didn’t bother.
Giancarlo85
Grindr needs much better age verification.
As far as some complaining about this “outdated” law, funny that most the guys complaining here are probably middle age. Creepy fucking shit if I have anything to say about it. I’m sure some posting in here want it to be legal.
This is the law. Grindr needs better age verification and if some of these guys were “tricked”, they should have expressed better judgment.
Peter McKinney
Pretty disgusted by all the gay men justifying having sex with 15 year old boys.
Arcamenel
I only have sympathy for the 18 year old, even if he knew the kid was 15 I don’t think he should be charged. There should also be a law on the books that if someone underage is found to have lied they should face some kind of charge. I’m not suggesting jail but at least it might make these horny teenagers think twice before lying about their age.
On the other hand I feel for these kids. I was a horny gay 15 year old once who had to listen to how all my straight friends were hooking up. I wasn’t out and didn’t have any interest with fooling around with girls so I did turn to online stuff but never hooked up with anyone until I was legal myself.
edwardnvirginia
STOP saying its ‘the kids’ fault. OBVIOUSLY, there is NO FAULT in being an age. THERE IS GREAT FAULT, however, in transgressing sexual coercion laws! The alleged perpetrators can hire attorney’s to make up some sort of defense; but it is unlikely that they will escape without penalties, and plea bargains to lesser offenses AND NO BEING PUT on sexual offender lists may be the best outcome. AND STOP blaming GRINDR. WHO owns GRINDR? WHO profits from GRINDR? … You can bet these ‘WHOs’ are more interested in profit than in protecting their customers from harm.
Tommy O'Brien
They thought he was 18 not 15 and noone is defending seeking out and having sex with a 15yr old. He committed fraud. Wonder if they can sue him and his parents
edwardnvirginia
OH, and you guys/gals/thems who complain that customers of GRINDR would TELL THE TRUTH about their age …
don’t make us laugh so hard! … LYING about your age is one of the favorite past times of the gays! … because the gays are among the worst age-bigots of all time!
Preston Larson
One I can’t believe this would happen one the app request age so one this 15 year old should have known what he getting into two the guys should have asked to see id kinda stupid
Giancarlo85
I’m 30 and I wouldn’t hook up with a 15 year old because I have proper judgment skills and guys my age are more compatible with me. Duh.
@edwardnvirginia: I’m sure you’ve lied about your age too.
edwardnvirginia
@Joe Eugene:
the contemporary psychological and developmental research – examining the complexity of brain development and emotional development – affirms that 16 may not be old enough – for most young people – to make full informed, rationally based consent to sexual relationships
in fact, in research with COLLEGE AGE young adults high percentages were found to be actually victims of sexual coercion or sexual assault despite their considering it to be ‘miscommunication’ or a ‘bad date’; in other words, the human brain and complex emotional responses achieve full development in the young to mid 20s! …
so there is – from the science – significant reason to RAISE the legal age of consent
Giancarlo85
@edwardnvirginia: No, the age of consent is fine at 18. There is no reason to raise it.
SportGuy
Maybe they should stop being pedophiles. Odds are they knew how old the kid was when they met, but they didn’t care. They should have asked for id if they insisted on hooking up with a twink kid.
Brian Cherry
One of the guys facing felony charges is only 18.
Cole Steele
That’s sad. A couple of the guys are not that much older than the teen.
Dakotahgeo
I tire of reading all of the comments so I’ll just assume that all of you college grads know how easy it is to obtain a valid ID (although illegal) for $20 or less.
Blackceo
I’m so glad Im boo’d up and there weren’t these apps during my slutacious days because I didn’t have to worry about these issues. You had to meet people socially, either in the club or randomly out in public and didnt have to worry about nonsense like this. The only thing available back in the days was AOL but there weren’t these sting operations going on because it was still such a new thing. Yes the sex apps work for those who want to cut through the BS and just get off without doing much chasing but be careful y’all.
Billy Budd
@Roland S. Burritt: I agree with you. Here in Brazil the age of consent is 14. Fourteen I say.
L Daniel E Kaufman
Meh. You have to be at least 16 to drive. I remember being 15 but his parents should have watched his phone better. Gay or straight thats just stupid.
Giancarlo85
@Billy Budd: Well, all the while you called Priests a bunch of perverts in the other thread. Many of who molested kids around that age. You can’t seem to make up your mind. Your country should adjust that law.
Giancarlo85
@Giancarlo85: Correction: Actually I meant to say Brazil should adjust that law, as I don’t believe Billy Budd is actually from Brazil.
Brian
I’m sorry but you shouldn’t be on Grindr if you are not an adult. Grindr is for perverts and sleazeballs, and should be considered an adult site.
If you are on Grindr and not of adult age, you should be charged and jailed.
Giancarlo85
@Brian: “If you are on Grindr and not of adult age, you should be charged and jailed.”
Jeez you want yourself charged and jailed, jason smeds?
Edwn Szto
always wondered, what if the proof of age is fake, like a fake id intended to look authentic. Common sense says the “perp” will still be on the hook even despite the best of evidence (e.g. having the physical id and recording of the showing of id?, for argument’s sake)
Jason Sanders
Why was a 15 year old on Grinder?
Louis Goodrich
When I was 15 I was smarter than more than 95% of the people I met. Not as mature, but certainly smarter. If they’d had grindr in my day, many many 18 to 30yos would have been at risk. >.>
Richard Tgramps Bower
Well they were surely stupid to get caught on such a public forum Thaa being said….. I was 12 when my barber and I started together.. he was 26…. I pursued him… knew I was gay as a toddler….. we knew he could go to prison….. My Dad told us all the issues… so we hung out alot… went to drive in movies… alot…. didn’t really have full on sex til I was 16…. but still had be careful…. we broke up when I was 19 cause I was moving to Denver…. fucker still has my high school classring….
M J Martinez Crogan
When I was 16 I was sucking all my friends dick..
that-one-kid
Damn. I understand that the age of consent is put in place for a reason but it seems like more and more of these cases are popping uo instead of actual violent sexual crime. Hes 15 he knew what he was doing but nobody but authority figures who impose laws that dictate someone elses sex life would throw 4 peoples lives away for something like this. Its just fucked up. All these studies on the brain and shit yet nobody’s taking into account that anyone can hook up with anyone with consent at anytime and theres not much that can be done, im not advocating sex with minors, but come on this isnt as big a deal as theyre making it
Brian Johnson-Frazier
Good. Anyone and everyone on that app needs arrested.
QJ201
I”ve made young looking guys whip out their ID before anything else more than once
tusgold
@Joe Eugene: @Arcamenel: Be careful, those 3 guys never thought it would hsppen to them. I know you will feel likr sn sdd but dude this is serious shit
moldisdelicious
Well, it’s unfortunate but these are the risks that comes with using an app with anonymous people on it. You can’t be too trusting of people on these sites. Way too many gay guys are getting comfortable, not even the possible traps that are at these same places that their livelihood depends on. If it’s not this, it’s someone lying about something else just as serious like their hiv status.
Stache99
@Skyler Weston Mays: “this teen is definitely at fault here”
Not according to the law though.
Stache99
@Giancarlo85: I thought Jason smeds was going by bisexual- transgender now. Damn. I can’t keep up with his trolling.
Stache99
I guess this is a risk for those that like the barely legals just like some guys get off in parks with risk of being arrested. No my problem or my care. By felicia’s. Enjoy the sex offender stats.
Stache99
@Billy Budd: “Here in Brazil the age of consent is 14. Fourteen I say.”
I don’t care how you defend yourself. You are a true blue pediphile by all of your statements.
Dakotahgeo
@Billy Budd: Hi Billy! I’m currently in Bauru, Brazil with my fiancee, filling out the Fiancee Visa forms with him. He thinks it might be 15 years old (the age of consent) but he’s not entirely sure. I can’t see anyone being interested in a person that young, but I suppose stranger things have happened! You have a fantastic country! We are going to be in Sao Paulo with friends one day before I leave on the 12th of October! Boa Sorte!
DonW
@notevenwrong: Actually, many teenage boys have been prosecuted for having sex with teenage girls. One 19-year-old faced a lifetime on the sex offender registry for having sex with a 14-year-old who told him she was 17. He was banned from ever using a computer (ending his college career) and couldn’t live in a house with children (even his own siblings). His life was ruined. Fortunately a public outcry has resulted in this sentence being revisited. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/05/us/teenagers-jailing-brings-a-call-to-fix-sex-offender-registries.html
DonW
@Will Gore: “…if they would have never used Grindr….none of this would have ever happened.”
Grindr was launched in 2009. Do you really think statutory rape never happened before then?
To all the Grindr-shamers: people use these apps for a lot of reasons, not just anonymous hookups. Yes, they enable people to connect for sleazy purposes. So do bars. They also help young, isolated people find each other in rural areas where there is no identifiable gay community.
People will find ways to meet and have sex in every era, with whatever technology. Historians even tell how pearl-clutchers like you guys had a fit when the telephone was invented — because they feared people would use it to arrange extramarital liaisons.
dick_pumper
I use Grindr, and have run across a few younger guys who have not been truthful about their age. One who told me his real age after we had fooled around, and another that sticks out in my head as a definite sting. The “sting” had a profile claiming to be 19. I generally don’t look for guys under 21, but he contacted me and we chatted and he wanted to meet, so I said ok, then he tells me he is only 16 but so horny. He wanted me to send some nudes and to know if we would meet at my place, so I said a motel. I had no intention of doing either. Then he kept insisting on knowing the name of the motel and when I would meet him and what did I drive. It smelled really bad lol So I gave him the name of a motel and a car and he said he could get a ride there. I don’t know if anything happened, since I blocked him and reported his profile as underage lol
Calebspapi
I have had an issue with cases like this since my first year of law school. Most of the time, it is a straight guy and some girl he met in a bar. What is he to think when she says she’s 23, looks at least 25 and had to show ID to get in? If it happens to them, it can and will happen to many gay males, on or off line.
But, just like bars and clubs have never been held accountable, neither will hook up sites. Just like the girls are always considered victims, so will be these younger guys. But a few words about terminology. These guys are not pedophiles as the age of the alleged victim was 15. Also, there is nothing wrong with liking younger guys but you must be very vigilante. The age of consent is only relevant as to when an individual can legally consent to sex with another person. It is the age of this other person that will determain if it is a crime or not. So basically, it is a moot point to debate the age of consent and if it should be raised (take, for example a 40yr school teacher and a 16 year old student. Statutory rape if there is at least a 3 year age difference) Most likely his homophobic parents dropped the dime because this victim had sex with at least 3 older men, that we know of. Obviously he liked what he got, and kept going back to the well.
Finally, there is no issue with showing the 18yr’s picture, as he is neither a child nor minor. This issue happens with straight guys every day but most people never hear about it unless there is something controversial, like a younger white girl and an older male of color. And older could be by 3 years. Think, a senior having sex with a high school freshman. We wanted equality, and now we have it.
Bisexual-Transwoman
@Tobi: No it does not.
Travis
The underage kid who was using Grindr should be the one in trouble! By using the app, and many many others like it, you have to accept the terms of use and it includes a minimum age! False impersonation and misleading actions. Where’s the law for this?
goofyjoemoore
@Joe Eugene: An interesting note, it’s 16 in Hawaii…and I’m sure other states as well.
DavidIntl
These laws seriously need to be changed, and until such a time as they are, juries need to be applying common sense and actively nullifying them through a refusal to convict. So, an 18-year-old meets a guy on Grindr. By being on Grindr in the first place, the other guy has already declared himself to be 18 years old. They meet up. Under some versions of these laws, even if the 18-year-old asks for ID (and honestly, how awkward would that be?!) showing that the guy is 18 or whatever the age of consent may be, but it turns out that the ID was fake (and lots of young guys have fake IDs which are indistinguishable from the real thing) he STILL can be charged with statutory rape for wholly consensual sex, even though he has done everything possible to ensure he had complied with the law, and clearly has been defrauded? How can that possibly be considered a just and enforceable law?
Ronnyboy
@Dakotahgeo: I’ve had sex with guys who I’m sure were below the legal limit but were fun and hot as hell. Nothing wrong with it if it’s consensual. These laws are BS and need to be gone. I think I’ll move to Brazil.
spemat
my goodness… I got trashed at my boyfriend’s frat party when I was 12 and after he passed out sucked off 4 of his brothers. I pursued him… when I went goth, I slept my way through all the guys and girls at two colleges in my area… for 3 years.