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Friday Forum: Can Gay Porn Ever Be Legit?

It’s that time of the week, when Queerty takes a break from the opinion-making and puts you, the readers, in charge. Each Friday, we invite you to be the pundit on a hot-button question facing the LGBT community and its allies. As always, we expect people to be respectful and considerate of others by refraining from personal attacks. We present the information, you make the decision.

04_lucas_lglIt’s been your favorite topic all week. As soon as Michael Lucas got on stage at the GayVN’s last week, demanding the porn industry be more responsible (or being a drama queen by singling out former underage porn star Brent Corrigan), the proverbial shit hit the fan. First, Lucas called the cops on Corrigan’s boyfriend, claiming he had been arrested and then, once that was disproved, Lucas spent the week railing against the porn press and claiming he wasn’t jealous of Corrigan at all.

Lucas’ grandstanding is interminably boring, but his original point is worth paying attention to. The gay porn industry has gone to great lengths recently to try to act more responsibly, or at least in some quarters it has. Porn impresario Chi Chi LaRue has made it her mission to make sure porn models are treated like something more than a piece of meat within the industry, crafting PSA’s demanding that porn companies refuse to market and film bareback sex videos and calling on industry leaders to take better care of the flesh they put to film. The Gay VN’s were all about the artistry and sex positive message that porn brings to the community.

Yet, the porn community, as we saw this week, is hardly a shining beacon of responsibility. Gay porn site Fleshbot has its own police blotter (link NSFW) and Lucas’ being threatened (allegedly threatened, whatever) is the least of the industry’s problems; just look at the recent murder trial of Bryan Kochis.

We want to know– are porn and crime inexorably linked? We would like to say, “No”– there’s nothing inherently criminal about consenting adults filming themselves getting it on for our benefit, yet the facts keep lining up against the idea that the porn industry can keep itself away from scandal. Underage sex, rampant drug use, barebacking, the list just goes on and on. Furthermore, the mainstream gay media turns a blind eye to the travails of the adult entertainment industry as if it’s a dirty secret that could only harm the causes of gay marriage, civil rights and winning over the hearts and minds of Americans when it comes to thinking gays and lesbians are just like straight folks.

Should we simply assume that porn and crime are like peanut butter & jelly, or do we, the beneficiaries of so much photographed sex, hold some responsibility for ensuring the safety of gay porn models and the responsibility of the adult entertainment industry? Is the gay porn industry capable of policing itself? What sort of pressure, if any, should the wider gay community put on gay porn producers to clean up their act?

We put it to you: Can gay porn ever be legit?

By:           Japhy Grant
On:           Apr 3, 2009
Tagged: , , ,

  • 88 Comments
    • ggreen
      ggreen

      The major gay porn studios control the entire industry. Just a few owners setting the rules and prices for the whole niche market. Top price for heterosexual porn DVD: $29.99 usually a two disc set with many extras and features shot with Hi Def Cameras with very professional editing and mastering quality. Top price for gay porn $79.99 sometimes two discs but usually one. Some features (usually out takes that couldn’t be used in the film) clumsy editing and slip shod production values (even in Hi-Def).

      The sex in gay porn is robotic at best. If it appears the models are into each other it’s completely by accident. Couples and groups are matched up based on things like hair color, height, build and Dick size. Not on any kind of chemistry they might have with each other. Tops are sometimes bottoms but usually bottoms are tops (viva Viagra).

      Gay porn is like sausage you should never see it being made.

      When ever a model asks for more money or god forbid participation in the profits, he gets labeled “too old” or difficult” and is black balled by the entire gay porn cartel.

      As long as people by crap that’s all that will be made3. “Fallen Angel 57” is in development right now!

      Can gay porn ever be legit? No.

      Apr 3, 2009 at 9:47 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Anthony in Nashville
      Anthony in Nashville

      There’s no way gay porn can be considered legit as a business or cultural model.

      Porn, like many branches of entertainment, is a shady industry that tends to prey on vulnerable people who come to the studios with visions of stardom. In my opinion, if you have legitimate options for employment you won’t enter porn. I think many of the “actors” have substance abuse issues, abusive home situations/relationships, something wrong that draws them to porn.

      I’m also wondering how many of these studios are gay-owned, and what the true orientation is of the actors? I see more “str8″ and gay-for-pay men in the magazines and websites than self-identitifed gay men.

      I have some porn vids like everyone else. But I can’t help but think that if gay men put in as much effort into fighting for equality as we do keeping up with porn than the community would be much better off. Judging from the comments on recent threads, it’s obvious what we are more interested in.

      Apr 3, 2009 at 10:00 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • John Smith
      John Smith

      No, gay porn can’t be legit, and who wants it to be? Something is most appealing if it is most forbidden, disapproved, condemned, or unattainable. If we could have whatever we wanted, there would be no fantasy. Would that be any fun?

      Apr 3, 2009 at 10:11 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lex
      Lex

      … the facts keep lining up against the idea that the porn industry can keep itself away from scandal. Underage sex, rampant drug use, barebacking, the list just goes on and on.

      What industry or agency is absent of scandal? Look at the worlds of politics, religion, education — look at businesses large and small. I still don’t know what a credit-default swap is, but I know a hell of a lot more people are suffering because of greedy business executives than are suffering because of gay porn.

      Folks single out the world of porn because they can’t shake their shame-associations with sex. Sex is dirty and wrong, so anything to do with sex is automatically shady. But, every endeavor involving humans is imperfect by default, because human beings are inherently imperfect. And that’s across the board, friends.

      Apr 3, 2009 at 10:46 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jake
      jake

      No, porn is not legit by any argument. It’s actually a product of sexual repression.

      Apr 3, 2009 at 10:51 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ousslander
      Ousslander

      Would you want it legit? I would not want my kids or gay kids thinking porn is a legitimate career path. There is a lot more safe n “respectable” careers. Once u do porn a lot of options r permanently lost.
      I watch porn n its being somewhat outlaw makes it that more appealing.

      Apr 3, 2009 at 11:15 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Victor McSpluge
      Victor McSpluge

      Let’s expand the question. Can straight or gay porn ever be legit? And define “legit.” I can go stay at a major hotel in most major cities right now and buy porn to watch in my room. Gay & Straight. I can go to the national bookstore chain near my house and buy porn mags — straight & gay. I can fire up the Comcast and watch porn on-demand in my home. Gay or straight. I can swing by Amazon.com and but adult DVD’s, gay & straight. Its already “legit” by the definition of legit as business sees it: Is it a sanctioned product for sale that can be purchased alongside any other sanctioned product for sale at major retail venues. You have your answer already. What was the question again? Define “legit.”

      Apr 3, 2009 at 11:39 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Victor McSpluge
      Victor McSpluge

      The US Justice Department just release updated regulations for the record keeping requirements of porn producers. That is because it is regulated commerce. The manufacturers participated in the writing of those laws in order to make them effective and not too onerous. If the question is: will porn ever become mainstream like, say, you could rent it at Blockbuster… now that is an interesting question. Because all people still largely prefer to keep their sex lives relatively private. So in a sense the industry didn’t have to move toward an answer because the answer came to the industry in the form of the internet. DVD’s are fading as the platform for watching filmed entertainment faster than it is worth pursuing in terms of a market. The action is in on-demand, and eventually on-demand will happen over the internet for wide delivery to whatever viewing device you like.

      Apr 3, 2009 at 11:46 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Alec
      Alec

      @Victor McSpluge: Agreed. I’m not really certain what “legitimate” means in this context; socially acceptable?

      You might as well ask if science fiction, comic books and other male dominated fantasy venues will ever be “legitimate.” I mean, it is what it is. Althouh I do have to say it is pretty revealing tha people look down on pornography as much as they seem to, judging by comments here. I mean, I assume they don’t consume it if that is the case…

      Apr 3, 2009 at 11:48 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Victor McSpluge
      Victor McSpluge

      Ah, @ Alec, and that leads to the question the industry faces: One of market penetration (a deliciously apropos term in this case). I have it on good authority –mine — that there are approximately 600,000 current paying consumers of gay adult product in the US. The Maginot line in the heads and wallets of the other roughly 10,000,000 potential consumers is a hard one for the adult industry to breach, because the transaction-focused businesses that sell the product are in upheaval. And the vastness of the internet affords ample means for those 10,000,000 to never cross that line from their side — they can get their porn for free, and all the while feign indifferent ignorance a la Captain Renault in Casablanca — “I’m shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!”

      Apr 3, 2009 at 12:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Austin
      Austin

      Poor porn is trash. Great porn can reach the level of art.
      I have seen a few porn films reach the standard
      where scene, lighting, actors, action, flow of movement,
      music…reach the level where I felt I was watching art.

      My biggest problem with porn lately is the trend toward
      abusive or abduction scenarios, where a victim is
      captured, bound, debased and raped till “he likes it”.
      These films sicken me and I can’t watch them, even though,
      if you removed the rape, the actors and the action are Hot!
      Falcon has been doing this a lot lately.

      I really wish the porn industry would get back to films
      of two hot guys finding and mutually pleasuring each other,
      that were the norm in the ’80s-90’s without the
      spitting, slaping, degrading they deem in-vogue now.

      Apr 3, 2009 at 12:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mike
      Mike

      Any argument that can be made against the porn industry should be extended to the entertainment industry at large. The endless parade of disgraces on the E! True Hollywood Story(Anna Nicole, Lindsey Lohan, the Kardashians, Biggie and Tupac) are not notably different than their porn cousins. What IS different is that when covering porn, the outside media takes the sensational stories and makes them representative of the whole. When covering mainstream media, it represents those people as outliers, as bad apples in an otherwise honorable system.

      MIke
      Editor, TheSword.com

      Apr 3, 2009 at 12:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Victor McSpluge
      Victor McSpluge

      @Austin, I have a theory about that, but only a theory. I believe that the “safe sex” generation (which is ironically also the “its ok to be gay” generation) is tres kinky compared to their forbearers for whom gay scenarios of a tamer sort were most popular. My younger friends don’t blink at stuff that I was never into. I wonder if its because within the confines of “safe” there was a lot more emphasis on other stuff. With bareback widely available online, the only way for the big studios to compete (since they are largely, and honorably, against the bareback ethos) is to be ever kinkier. I think they are making a mistake, by marginalizing their product at a time when the most universal and flexible delivery platforms is soon to be upon them.

      Apr 3, 2009 at 12:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • stuey
      stuey

      Japhy,

      You’re a fucking toolbag. Good luck winning over the hearts and minds of straight Americans. I’m going to go masturbate.

      Apr 3, 2009 at 12:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Victor McSpluge
      Victor McSpluge

      @Mike, in the words of Michael Lucas (who I am convinced is in fact a fictional character invented by Sacha Baron Cohen): All publicity is good publicity. A theory your own naughty, naughty online antics often bear out. ;-)

      Apr 3, 2009 at 12:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Stuff Queer People Need To Know
      Stuff Queer People Need To Know

      @Mike:

      Valid. Most people go into these industries for the entirely wrong reasons.

      http://www.queerty.com/breaking-iowa-says-yes-to-gay-marriage-20090403/

      Apr 3, 2009 at 12:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • afrolito
      afrolito

      Porn is and has always been a barometer and mirror of society, so of course it’s legit…. it exists. The question and moralistic reasoning behind the question is idiotic.

      Of course certain gay men who feel compelled and obsessed by aping heterosexual conventions of “normalcy”, feel threatened by gay men expressing their sexuality in porn. These people feel our true road to salvation lies in getting married, having children, and joining the military.

      Btw, barebacking, underage sex, and drug use exist in every community in and outside of porn.

      Apr 3, 2009 at 3:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • afrolito
      afrolito

      @Stuff Queer People Need To Know:

      There are all types of reasons people go into porn. Just like there are many reasons people go into the financial industry, play sports, or decide politics is their true calling.

      I think the world might have been better off if George W. Bush or Bernie Madoff had went into porn.

      Apr 3, 2009 at 3:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • traffick
      traffick

      Who cares? Why do we want it to become legit. Part of the reason why porn gets a rise out of people, is the fact that in some way it is taboo. We usually view it by ourselves or during sex with our partner(s).

      I don’t know anyone who has keep their porn flicks with the rest of the their DVD collections.

      Also the adult industry is feeling hard times in the economy just like other companies. And the reason for this is the creation of site x-tube and others, where the general public can post their own porn, or post pirated porn from other studios

      Apr 3, 2009 at 4:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Victor McSpluge
      Victor McSpluge

      Good lord. These comments have taken a turn toward the shallowly malevolent. In other words, “hello operator, we have an ultra-faux-gressive ‘gay-shamer’ on line 1.” If “aping heterosexual conventions of ‘normalcy’ ” were in fact the definition of ‘bad gay’ versus your purported “good gay,” Afrolito mon cheri, then I suppose anal sex is bad, too, as it culd be viewed as an aping of heterosexual conventions of normal fucking? Good grief Charlie Horse. Even the birds & bees pair up, though to my knowledge they don’t watch porn.

      Apr 3, 2009 at 4:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Alec
      Alec

      @Victor McSpluge: I guess you missed the memorandum: Being gay is now all about anonymous hookup culture. I guess more than a few heterosexual couples are aping gay “conventions.”

      @afrolito: Nah; there are plenty of gay men (and lesbians) who have no intention of getting hitched, reproducing/child rearing or fighting US imperialist wars of aggression in the Middle East. But, for those who want to, well…more power to them. So far the suburban queers haven’t impacted your ability to get a bathhouse membership and buy Falcon videos.

      Apr 3, 2009 at 5:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      I’ve noticed that people who feel uncomfortable by certain questions turn into little etymologists and concept analysts when the question is asked without, I dunno, going so far as to provide an answer.

      Apr 3, 2009 at 5:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Alec
      Alec

      @TANK: How can this question be answered without some sense of what the term “legitimate” means?

      Apr 3, 2009 at 6:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      Well, we can try to reconstruct what the intended meaning is given, I dunno…the context in which the word is located. Jizzus christ.

      Apr 3, 2009 at 6:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @TANK:

      It just seems that the inherent vagueness of natural language is played up to evade answering a question that makes people feel uncomfortable for some reason…

      Apr 3, 2009 at 6:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      In most of our everday communication, it’s taken for granted that the meaning is understood…like a lot of commenters here did, who didn’t need to play up the significance of any intricate word games in evaluating the question.

      Apr 3, 2009 at 6:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Alec
      Alec

      @TANK: I’m not uncomfortable with porn. I’m a little more uncomfortable with the term “legitimate.” But since you’ve pointed us down the road, and since the author of this post makes some assumptions (maybe unfounded, maybe not), I’ll give it a try.

      In the context, the contours of “legitimate” seem to be guided by these questions:

      Should we simply assume that porn and crime are like peanut butter & jelly, or do we, the beneficiaries of so much photographed sex, hold some responsibility for ensuring the safety of gay porn models and the responsibility of the adult entertainment industry? Is the gay porn industry capable of policing itself? What sort of pressure, if any, should the wider gay community put on gay porn producers to clean up their act?

      We put it to you: Can gay porn ever be legit?

      This isn’t really the first time the gay community has been “asked” by (self-appointed?) moralists to address these questions. I guess a good historical example is bathhouse regulation post-AIDS.

      As with many business transactions, the porn market is largely anonymous. Apart from the reporting here I don’t really hear much news, unless there’s a scandal that breaks into the mainstream press (i.e., the HIV infection that broke out in heterosexual pornography circles a few years ago).

      Implicit in these questions, however, is an assumption that the gay pornography market is policing itself. It isn’t; there are federal regulations in place to make sure that age restrictions are enforced, for starters. Drug use is prohibited for everyone. Adult oriented businesses are zoned by communities to keep “adults only” areas truly adult.

      So with self-policing, there’s really a limited area for that, subject, as with any business, to consumer demand. Take bareback pornography. It is already discouraged by many industry outlets. Is the argument that we should discourage others from purchasing it? And how do we do that, without a legislative response? Social stigma? Again, we’re talking about impersonal, anonymous transactions, often over the internet. We can all agree that bareback pornography shouldn’t be produced, should be discouraged and shouldn’t be purchased, but in the privacy of their own homes people are going to purchase it. In an age of xtube, they’ll probably make it for themselves.

      When it became clear that AOL and gay.com and other realtime internet forums were facilitating the spread of STIs, including HIV, a lot of AIDS activists became frustrated because, as one of them put it, “gay.com allows every gay man to turn his apartment into a bathhouse.” Their conventional intervention programs (targeting bathhouses, bars, ven known cruising areas) didn’t work. And so they developed new methods.

      I guess you can look at this in a similar light, but really, I don’t know what kind of intervention would be called for. THere are laws prohibiting drug use, there are laws prohibiting underage sex. People still take drugs, people still produce child pornography. And there are criminal sanctions available for those that do. With unprotected sex there’s an added barrier since tha is not, strictly speaking, subject to our penal codes (I think that it would be possible for the government to step in and require protection in the commercial context, but probably not across the board), but what interventions do people have in mind to “legitimize” the market in the way the author seems to suggest?

      Apr 3, 2009 at 6:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      Thank you, Alec. That was refreshingly thoughtful, and I appreciate it. I will have to assess the validity and soundness later, however.

      Apr 3, 2009 at 7:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MikeDonner
      MikeDonner

      Whew! I recently wrote a book about getting into the gay porn business. I believe a good deal of these young men go into the “blue movies” for the wrong reasons. They need to be interviewed, screened and talked to about what the realities are. Telling someone the truth shouldn’t be that hard.
      The days of super stardom are a thing of the past. One has to have not only a healthy body but more importantly, a healthy attitude and mind. I do care about these guys and try to give them the best advice I can. Don’t spend your porn pay on stupid stuff, go to school, start a business (which now a days is not such a good thing) at times it’s like being a big brother, but what’s the harm in being honest with these guys?
      As for the gay porn biz ever being legit. Well, one has to remember what it is. To get guys off and turned on and enjoy being with themselves. (or sometimes, others)
      But making it more than what it is won’t happen. And it should be enjoyed in a healthly manner.
      God, I’m going now, I’m sounding like someone’s mother.
      Keep it hard!
      Mike Donner

      Apr 3, 2009 at 7:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Adam
      Adam

      Gay pornography is no more of a bellwether of the gay community than straight pornography is a bellwether of the straight community. As such, we should not chastise the adult industry for misrepresenting our ‘community’.

      Rather than representing gay life, market demands are what will dictate the production of gay pornography, just as they dictate the production of straight pornography. Just as straight porn is rife with such practices as ATM, so too our porn will increasingly be dominated by ‘barely legal’ young boys appearing in bareback flicks.

      Personally, I prefer films that have passion between the actors. I find that some, though not all, bareback films have much passion between the actors. This is an element that is missing from many Chi Chi la Rue films. So for her to criticize the bareback porn producers, in my mind, is for her to miss the entire point.

      To reduce bareback porn, pornography producers must be able to capture both the riskiness of sex and its passion. It is by no accident that x-tube has stolen much of the business away from the pornography industry. For all of its faults, x-tube at least is free of the many artificialities of the pornography industry.

      Apr 3, 2009 at 10:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Phoenix (Say Hallo To My Leetle Friend!)
      Phoenix (Say Hallo To My Leetle Friend!)

      Define “pornography”. Do you mean just film/photos of real, live people doing erotic naughty stuff or do you mean all erotic art? I like most porno manga/anime as much as I do video of live people. No real, live person was demeaned in the making of it and I assure you, plenty is graphic and original.

      What do you think of Deviant ART, all digital art? Do you think it is legitimate? Illegitimate? There are photos of real people, but most of the art is computer generated.

      Apr 4, 2009 at 12:15 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • McSpluge is Reawakened
      McSpluge is Reawakened

      Whoa, Adam. I had given up on this string until your beautiful mind showed up. You are delving into the toughest heart of the core of the apple here. I am impressed. You are right on — that ultimately, we all, in our ideal world, want to return to sex without limits. I have to cogitate on that little gem of insight for a few hours. See you in the morning. But do me a favor, play safe between now and then. Mother nature is not necessarily on our side in this discussion.

      Apr 4, 2009 at 12:28 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • michael
      michael

      Some of your larger markets for porn, gay or straight are actually
      places where people claim to be highly religious and moral, (Hello Utah?). So I do believe that sexual repression is the porn industries greatest friend. So as long as sexuality is seen as shameful by so many, porn will be around, and get kinkier and kinkier cause you have to up the ante.

      Now, what about something more erotic and well done for those of us that don’t suffer from shame based sexuality? Now I am not implying an absence of kink here. Just something with some class
      to it. Or maybe its difficult to find actors of that caliber that are willing to do porn. But then maybe what I am wanting would not be considered porn if the acting, directing and screenplays were well done.

      Personally I say watch what you want and do whatever you want, its your life. If its a neurosis that is driving you then thats between you and your shrink, not my problem. But I do draw the line at underage actors. If you have a neurosis that needs that shit to fulfill itself then your problem becomes my problem. And let me tell you, if I had a son or daughter and if they were underage and approached to do porn I would fuck that person up like they never dreamed of.

      Apr 4, 2009 at 12:49 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • denton
      denton

      Interesting discussion. Gay porn is already legit as an industry. It’s legal, unlike drugs. However, I think the “legit” question implies, “can gay porn be a socially accepted way to make a living?” I think the answer has to be no, considering the double standard surrounding sex of most of the population. When confronted with an actor who does porn, most are probably likely to say, “How could you do that?” followed by, “Where can I rent it?”

      I’ve watched as many porn movies as anyone, and enjoyed them for what they are – wanking material. But I’ve met several people who were involved in the industry, and they all told me that it destroys lives in one way or another. The people involved in porn don’t exactly seem to be paragons of morality, so when they start moralizing, you have to just laugh at the hypocrisy. But at least LaRue is speaking out against barebacking.

      A porn actor is looked down on as an immoral and unworthy of legitimacy by the general population. Most of them, on “Oprah” or wherever, have had to denounce their past and beg for forgiveness. None that I know of have gone public and said, “Yeah, I did it, I do it, and it’s great.” If they do, they’re condemned, often by the same people who would buy their product.

      But the porn industry, like the entertainment industry in general, uses and spits out performers until they are no longer of use, without regard to their lives. The performers, the backbone of the industry, don’t exactly get a pension, health insurance, or a gold watch for service.

      Apr 4, 2009 at 9:47 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason

      Face it – many porn moguls are ripping us off. They are creeps, pure and simple. They’ve got a cornered market of hyper-sexualized gay male sleazeballs who will bow before any man with a good body and big dick. It never ceases to amaze how similar to straight guys we are in terms of our sex- obsessiveness.

      I think it’s time we gave a collective thumbs down to the gay male porn moguls and their sleazy trade which involves ripping us off.

      Apr 4, 2009 at 10:08 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason

      Porn will never be legit – never. The straight side of the industry has a bisexual double standard. It portrays female bisexuality – but not male bisexuality – as being “normal”, thus integrating female bisexuality into almost all straight porn movies. This difference in treatment immediately tells you that porn does not reflect human sexuality in a democratic way but more in a way which panders to male-directed homophobia.

      Porn is extremely homophobic towards the male-male interaction, and should be held responsible for distorting sexuality and pandering to male-directed homophobia.

      Apr 4, 2009 at 10:12 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • forreal
      forreal

      The porn industry is legit for the PEOPLE THAT ARE RAKING IN THE CASH. Definitely. The owners of the big studios make a shit load of money while they leave the models in the dust.

      A good example of how little they care about us is this: The Friday before GayVN awards I attended a meeting at one of the big studios in San Francisco with the other award nominees from that studio and the “President” of the studio made it very clear to us that models were “not to bother him” with any “problems” over the weekend because he will be “busy mingling with other studio heads” and such. Seriously? Go to hell, dude. You’re a pathetic, self obsessed, money hungry pimp.

      The porn industry can only become legit for everyone when the studio owners start caring about the models…barely anyone in this industry cares about the models, but they are out there. I’ll refrain from making a list, but OH it’s so tempting…

      Apr 4, 2009 at 1:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @Alec:

      This failed to distill the relevant sense of legitimate in the question. It was a bit misleading. I assume the question was about the pornography industry, and not any other. Defining legitimate as legal, and asking whether or not there will always been incentives and errors that will contribute to breaking the laws that regulate the porno trade doesn’t distinguish it from any other regulated or unregulated and illegal industry, alec. Nor does bringing up the self policing to make sure that healthy practices are acknowledged. Others have tried, using this very line or reasoning, to suggest that all regulated industries have players who engage in illegal behavior, and thus deflect the question away from the pornography trade by reaffirming that tired platitude “it’s just like any other industry,” in a desperate attempt for some measure of…legitimacy. No, it’s not, and most other industries aren’t like each other, either.

      Instead, I offer that the question is more about the type of crime that occurs given the particulars of the porn industry. I’m talking about violent murder, rampant substance abuse, and child exploitation and kiddie porn. Why are so many people who are psychologically damaged, drug addicted, and willing to engage in criminal behavior attracted to the pornography industry? No one hooks unless they have to. Few do pornography unless they have to (drug use or, say, debts), or don’t have any other talent that can pay the bills. And those that are waiting to produce and distribute it depend upon that kind of desperation for their livelihood. These are relevant in answering that question…

      Further, given that pornography’s intersection with prostitution, and prostitution being largely illegal, that attracts another type of scene which is replete with drugs and criminals. Look at where porno came from, and who controlled it in these united states. It was closely linked to dirty money and organized crime.

      There are a lot of other factors that detailing would be a waste of time to do, because it’s not going to change. But the answer is obviously NO. Even if these factors were removed, including america’s public problem with pornography (which isn’t what it was…another dodge, I think…porno ain’t sex, and it ain’t all that healthy…not unhealthy to consume, either). There’s yet another problem. Know what that is?

      Who’s to blame? Well, as someone mentioned, gay porno’s relation to the gay community isn’t what it is to the straight “community”. The straight “community” is not a community because not a political minority that’s discriminated against…and the gay community is based upon sexuality. I’m bored. It irritates me how prominent a role porno plays in gay culture. It really says a lot about the viability of a rights movement.

      Apr 4, 2009 at 4:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MikeDonner
      MikeDonner

      In the “almost” twenty years I’ve been a director/writer, I always believed that the models (I call them actors) get the short end of the stick.
      I was shocked by one of the bloggers on here saying he went to a party the night before the awards and heard a produced talking down the actors. Without them, what would he have?
      I wrote my book for two reasons; One, safe sex. I hate barebacking and I believe it is the responsablity of the company, producer and director to have some common idea of the STD’s that are going on out in the world. And HIV is far, far from going away.
      A lot of the directors, producers and studio owners do not- as they do not educate themselves. And…a lot do not care. Two: As a older gay man (shut up about “how” old) I believe that I need have to educate about safer sex practices. I’ve lost way too many friends over the years. And we grown ups need to take care of the younger men who believe that they will live forever.
      That being said, I can only speak about my own shoots and the models that I have worked with.
      I have worked with Brent Corrigan-twice. The producers cast him. I have been out of the loop with gossip and all that goes on with the blogs for “gay porn” as I needed to step away. I go do my job, say goodbye to the crew and cast and go back to my private life. (so I felt stupid when, after the fact, I got an email telling me about all the going ons in Brent’s life.) I found myself being put off by him without even getting to know him. I jumped to my own judgement when I didn’t have the facts. I asked him about all the “stuff” I was told regarding him. He was honest, told me he was young, stupid and that he had put a lot of people at risk for getting into serious trouble. I thanked him for his honesty. He turned out to be one of the most professiona actors I have worked with. That being said, he did somthing very wrong and he has to live with it. I believe we all have made mistakes one time or another.
      The award show was silly. Just because one young man got up and had to say something left the whole evening with a cloud. I felt badly for Ragging Stallion. It was their night and he took it away from them.
      And…that’s why I try not to go to these events and functions. Someone always has to behave badly and ruin it.
      Bye!
      Mike

      Apr 4, 2009 at 8:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • mikeandrewsdantescove
      mikeandrewsdantescove

      Well working at Falcon Studios for a summer in customer service. All is not what it seems. Why is Michael Brandon still on the http://www.tweaker.org posters promoting no drugs when he was arrested for this. He wants to return after rehab. Isn’t porn the root of his drug addiction?

      I think that Brent Corrigan is talented but there are studios that will not work with him again because of this age scandal.

      Mike
      http://cdbaby.com/cd/mikeandrews2

      Apr 4, 2009 at 9:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Irish Sinner
      Irish Sinner

      Wouldn’t it be wonderful though if he really did die! There would be no stupid fag porn queen constantly making a NYC rucus! The guy is fucked-up! BTW, has anyone ever seen him sober? Has anyone seen the real date of birth on his real ID — I have and the motherfucker is OLD!

      Apr 4, 2009 at 11:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Helga Von Ornstein
      Helga Von Ornstein

      I had considered making my own porn films when I saw the popularity of the thug porn dvd’s explode but after interviewing six possible actors I could not go through with it. My conscious could not allow me to exploit people whom had no other choice in two cases but to do porn. No one would hire them because of felony convictions and their mental state was not one that prepared them for the workforce, though they all were cute and well endowed and versetile. Three had proof the had already done it before.

      During this Sean Lockhard/Michael Lucas b/s on this site this week I discovered that one of my favorite porn actors from earlier this decade, Stonie, was now a strung out transvestite calling “herself” Brittany Coxxx and starring in outright TRASH. I could not believe it and the more I think about just how young (I did not say innocent, I said young) he was when he started and where he is now saddens me and makes me all the happier I left that pipe dream about directing porn where it was.

      There is always going to be a market for young naked boys having sex on film. It only takes a $150 camcorder, the internet and one or more people willing to be filmed having sex and there you have it, instant porn studio.

      What is sad is the aftermath of what happens to some of the actors within a relatively short period of time. Most are “old” after the fourth or fifth video scene and told to move on.

      Apr 5, 2009 at 12:38 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      LISTEN! This place is awash in racism, heterosexism, transphobia, and homophobia. This “stonie” person isn’t a tranvestite! Transvestites aren’t trasngender people. She is transgender. It’s embarrassing! One of my best friends is transgender, and it just sounds like FOLKS are poorly educated. You have no problems getting it STRAIGHT in any of your other posts (clueless people), so get it straight here, too.

      Apr 5, 2009 at 12:53 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DavidW
      DavidW

      Porn is already legal, so the question is moot. Could it ever be accepted as totally OK in the eyes of the church, which rules people’s genitals in this country? I think that is what you are trying to ask. God loves it but those priests and nuns that can’t touch themselves, (so they would make you think) ain’t about to endorse any kind of fun sex. We’re controlled babies in this country, don’t look for emotional equality about porn in America anytime soon, give it 20 years, then lets talk.

      Apr 5, 2009 at 7:08 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DavidW
      DavidW

      PS If you don’t have the hootspa of Jenna Jamison, don’t go into the industry. You probably won’t survive well.

      Apr 5, 2009 at 7:17 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • scott
      scott

      @Victor McSpluge: Thanks Victor. That was my first question, what the hell does defines “Legit“? And my second was, Is Hetero porn “Legit”? As usual, I find the “reporting” or writing here suspect. If Queerty is going to be controversial or create thing topics they need to define the circumstances a little further.

      I dig what you and Adam had to say. Nicely done.

      Apr 5, 2009 at 8:32 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bob Lablah
      Bob Lablah

      @TANK: You are correct about many of us having it wrong and I admit I must still have it wrong. I always associated a transgender as one who no longer has the penis/testicles attached. I always thought those who do have their genitals still attached but have tits amount to drag queens with breasts and nothing more. He clearly held the line in regards to the “chop” and now looks like a drugged out crack/meth freak (that I would still fuck if given the chance).

      In his very trashy/cheap amatuer movies I saw on the net he (Stonisha/Brittany or whatever the hell you want to call it/him/her) can still get a hard on at will and it dangles there while soft. As spread out as his ass has gotten he obvious is taking harmone pills. I do not see that as “transgender” but according to you it is. I saw the breast but shots can easily make that mirage come and go. I just saw what is now a drugged out man who clearly knows he has nothing to look back on but how he fucked up opportunity after opportunity where he could have made it big in that business if he had just left the drugs and fast life alone. But being that young when he started this comes as no surprise. I do hope Lockhart is taking note though on how drugs/sex/ and violent hanger on’s (boyfriends and friends who aren’t about shit but a good time and sex) can quickly bring you down as well as themselves to boot if you are not careful and don’t know how to tell them to fuck off.

      During the trial it was reported the Harlow and his lover Kerekes offered Lockhart $50k per scene. Not only is that a lot of money but on pay-per-view sites this kid Lockhart does draw that type of audience where now those types of paydays might become the standard. Porn is growing. Not shrinking.

      I have noticed how thug/minority porn is evolving into better quality and story lines as well. Enrique Cruz will clearly not work with the average trash (criminal behavior being filmed as sexually stimulating) that appears in most of the minority/thug porn movies. He seems to take the time and effort to find people who are more interested in what is actually taking place there than the (“just suck my dick and give me the $100, faggot”) types that appear in a lot of the other minority productions that are out there.

      I just think it sad where he/she has fallen to but I am getting down off my soapbox now (becasuse who really gives a fuck except people who would never have done it in the first place but thanks to blogs like this can quarterback from their desktops) and wish Stonisha/Brittany Coxxx well because after all, she is getting paid and it is a business that does produce millionaires.

      A perfect example of success from actor to producer is Tiger Tyson. Like his productions or not he is making money and not depending on controversy to promote his sites nor movies. You go boy.

      Apr 5, 2009 at 12:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
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      @DavidW:

      LOL! You know you’re a goy when you can’t spell chutzpah.

      Apr 5, 2009 at 1:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
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    • Luis Montalvo
      Luis Montalvo

      The 5 Most Unintentionally Gay Horror Movies:

      At some point, possibly in the 80s, Hollywood decided that a good horror movie needed to be built on a strong foundation of homoerotic subtext. We’re not saying it’s a bad thing, this is 2009, after all.

      What we are saying is that their strenuous efforts to both cram in as much homoeroticism as possible, while avoiding actual gay characters or storylines, is the stuff unintentional comedy is made of. For example…

      #5.The Lost Boys (1987)

      A handsome young man is targeted by vampires. Everyone is dressed like members of WHAM!

      After moving to the flamboyant new town of Santa Carla, Michael falls in with a crowd of bad dudes after being attracted by the gang’s sole female member, Star. Strangely, none of the fellas in the gang seems to be showing any interest in her, forcing Michael to conclude that they’re all in serious relationships with other female vampires.

      Michael follows Star back to the vampires’ lair, where the leader of the pack, David, tricks Michael into swallowing some of his bodily fluids. Or maybe it’s not a trick, and Michael is just so impressed at having been invited over to Jack Bauer’s house that he does it voluntarily.

      Pretty soon, Star is nowhere to be seen, and Michael demonstrates his loyalty to vampire-Jack Bauer by jumping off a bridge. He then lets his family know about his new lifestyle by coming home sporting the international sign of vampire-gang membership: a single ear piercing. Even his younger brother, Sam, who prides himself on his flamboyant “young Elton John” wardrobe, seems shocked by this.

      Later, there’s a rushed sex scene with Star which is obviously added to draw attention away from the flaming sexual tension between Michael and pale-Jack Bauer. However, it’s not enough to distract us from the moment that propelled this movie onto the list. A moment that makes the gleaming man with his saxophone and studded codpiece seem as hetero as Brett Favre.

      The moment to which we refer comes when Sam opens his not-at-all-metaphorical closet, resulting in a shot which has led to years of speculation by experts.

      That’s Rob Lowe, folks.

      Best Quote:

      “My blood is in your veins!”
      Wait, Are You Sure This is “Unintentional”?

      Look, it was a different time. And that different time was the 80s.

      It was an era of men with waxed chests, in towels. Of moussed hair and pastel shirts. The whole world was flamboyant and nobody felt threatened by it. The Lost Boys seems to have been filmed purely as a time capsule for the era that gave us Top Gun. Show the film to an amnesiac or somebody born in 1991, and they’ll say “Oh, that’s what you mean by ‘ambient gay.'”

      So what if Corey had Rob Lowe in his closet. Lowe starred in St. Elmo’s Fire, director Joel Schumacher’s last film before he directed The Lost Boys. The picture on Sam’s closet was probably more a jokey director shout-out than anything else.

      On the other hand, Schumacher is openly gay and was responsible for putting the nipples and enormous dong on the batsuit.

      Okay so maybe it was a little bit intentional.

      #4.The Covenant (2006)

      Summary:

      Caleb is the leader of a gang of “undercover” male witches who spend a lot of time showering together. He is obsessively targeted by a mysterious stranger, Chase, the new kid at their exclusive private school.

      We don’t want to read too much into the fact that the school’s female students are featured mostly as blurry, indistinct figures in the background. Why read anything at all when we have an all-male naked locker room fight scene to watch?

      “I’m gonna cast a magic spell. A magic ass spell. On your ass.”

      Yes, it’s the classic story of male friendship: One man defends another in a naked brawl, sparked when one of the men is called gay. Our memory is a little hazy, but we’re fairly certain that’s how Mel Gibson met Danny Glover in the first Lethal Weapon.

      After their bond if forged through butt-naked combat, Chase and Caleb hit some bars together and engage in extended male swimming competitions while wearing tiny, tiny shorts. Their relationship reaches its climax when Caleb discovers the secret that Chase hides away from the world in the clos … cupboard deep within his soul. We’re of course talking about the fact that Chase is also an undercover witch.

      Chase becomes desperate to consume Caleb’s magic, when he learns that Caleb has a special magic that will only fully develop once he turns 18. Chase stalks him, threatens his friends and eventually holds him down and kisses him.

      “This is how we steal magic, right?”

      This brings us to the final conflict, and the point at which the film pretty much whips the audience in the face with the homoerotic symbolism: In the climactic scene, the two men hurl magic translucent white globs of power at each other as Chase begs for Caleb’s consent.

      Best Line:

      “How about I make you my wi-atch?”
      Wait, Are You Sure This is “Unintentional”?

      “Be careful, my magic is very sticky and if it gets in your hair, you’ll never get it out.”

      In this case, at least, all of the homoerotic subtext lurking just beneath the surface (and sometimes prominently above it) seems to be a strange, misguided attempt to appeal to the young women who this film was plainly aimed at. The filmmakers must have spent some time in some chat rooms, and decided that homoerotic fanservice is all that is needed to sell tickets in these modern times.

      To be fair, the obligatory girl-girl make-out scenes in modern slasher flicks demonstrates that producers don’t have a much higher opinion of male horror fans.

      #3.The Forsaken (2001)

      Summary:

      Young man befriends vampire, ignores attractive woman for 90 minutes.

      Don’t let the scantily-clad female on the cover fool you into renting this movie for your men’s beach volleyball after party. Actress Izabella Miko appears in approximately 10 minutes of footage, and the rest is devoted to a lengthy bromance between Sean and half-vampire Nick. The naked women, gratuitous violence and vampire car chases thrown in throughout the film just make the homoeroticism stand out more, the same way that Al Pacino’s presence in The Devil’s Advocate made Keanu Reeves look even dumber.

      The plot kicks off when Sean is asked to transport a car cross country, and given a specific no-hitchhiker rule by his employer. And he’s able to follow it until a young blond hitcher, named Nick, catches his eye and asks, “Use some company?” Oh, we know the answer to that one.

      Sean keeps Nick around even as he gets him fined by the cops, steals his food and money and randomly strips an unconscious girl naked in his hotel room. Unfortunately, this loyalty doesn’t pay off because both the girl and Nick turn out to be vampires, and Sean gets his ass bitten (not literally).

      Nick then explains that Sean has been infected with a blood disorder that can only be slowed with a cocktail of drugs.

      “Also you have to let me stick my finger in your mouth. To cure your blood disorder, you see.”

      The two young men team up to attract and kill the head vampire, a Frenchman who also seems to have a thing for Sean. The head vampire, though, is no match for the most powerful force in the universe: white hot, masculine love. The film ends as the two men stare meaningfully into each other’s eyes, and ride off into the sunset together.

      Best Quote:

      “I need all the muscle I can get!”

      Wait, Are You Sure This is “Unintentional”?

      It hardly seems possible; after all, the subtext is so obvious the guy who played Sean was asked about it (before this film, he was best known for playing an openly gay man on Dawson’s Creek).

      This certainly doesn’t look like a vampire movie.

      But, he did deny it. So, hell, maybe it was just a case where the chemistry of the two male actors combined to create a flash of spontaneous homoerotic combustion. It happens. If you’ve ever hung around a college fraternity, you know what we’re talking about.

      Apr 6, 2009 at 1:05 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Helga von Ornstein
      Helga von Ornstein

      @Luis Montalvo: Impressive list. However you forgot one of the worst gay twink themed (though supposedly unintentional) movie ever made.

      Mario Lopez’ The Journey: Absolution. was made in 1997, back when Mario was so desperate for attention (because no one was interested in a gay boy trying to pass himself off as a tough little mexican whom everyone suspected was gay anyway) he did all but come out of the closet on a jet-ski. This movies has the late teen, early twenty somethings walking around in skin-tight white briefs (all except Lopez, of course) and is good as long as Lopez is not in the scene. It is so awful it is never on cable, not even on late night. That is one I am sure Lopez had taken off the market. You can read more of the reviews on this piece of human waste of a movie at http://www.imdb.com.

      Apr 6, 2009 at 8:46 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JimmyHarper
      JimmyHarper

      @Victor McSpluge: Ummm… that comment just made my day. Thank you.

      Apr 6, 2009 at 5:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MikeDonner
      MikeDonner

      Crap…I would OF loved to film Mario Lopez!
      Is he gay? I get confused with the gossip rags and stupid stuff.
      Even if he’s not, I still think he’s one hot cutie!
      M
      P.S. It is a shame to be wasteful with film and let any one see it…after all-Someone, some where will want to see it….and pay money. I would, but I’m an ol’ queen who likes to watch really bad stuff. (and please, no comment about some of my movies, I still cringe)

      Apr 6, 2009 at 11:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bob Lablah
      Bob Lablah [Different person #1 using similar name]

      @MikeDonner: I don’t know if you have seen it yet but go to http://www.youtube.com and put in Mario Lopez ass and a movie with him showing it in a shower with another guy comes up.

      You actually see it but it is not as sexy as I had hoped. He is totally overrated. He even bitched about another cast member who had bigger biceps than his to cover them when he was in the play All that Jazz. What a little asshole.

      But I would still love to put him on all fours and pee in his hole though.

      Apr 7, 2009 at 12:10 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      You’re such a pig, bob.

      Apr 7, 2009 at 1:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bob Lablah
      Bob Lablah

      @TANK: And clearly you like relating to pigs so WTF, huh?

      Apr 7, 2009 at 5:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
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      Apr 8, 2009 at 4:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • He is a worthless piece of shit
      He is a worthless piece of shit

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      Apr 15, 2009 at 4:33 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
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      Nov 20, 2009 at 7:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason [Different person #1 using similar name]

      Porn does not deserve respect. It’s an industry which makes money off voyeurism. Voyeurism is not a good basis on which to live one’s life. Experience is better. Go out and experience life.

      Nov 20, 2009 at 8:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • andrew
      andrew

      As for the GayVN Awards, I think they’re homophobic. The mere fact that the male-male sexual interaction is segregated into a separate awards show called “gay” speaks volumes. Contrast this with the way the female-female sexual interaction is treated; it’s called “straight” and included in the mainstream awards show put on by AVN.

      AVN is basically propping up homophobic attitudes towards the male-male interaction. AVN’s “acceptance” of us reeks of phoniness – it’s a phony acceptance based on segregating us away from the mainstream.

      Nov 20, 2009 at 8:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • andrew
      andrew

      Porn, with its bisexual double standard, contributes to the notion that we gay men are “peculiar” and should be segregated away from the mainstream. It’s an extremely homophobic industry when it comes to the male-male interaction.

      The women in porn contribute to the bisexual double standard as well. They’re vulgar hypocrites.

      Nov 20, 2009 at 8:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • NaxEmanda
      NaxEmanda

      Cipro Sinus Infection Other Post:
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      Nov 20, 2009 at 10:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • AabidaJamshut
      AabidaJamshut

      hello
      Sorry – i’m newbie. Im from Sirya!

      I need help about Antiaging and HGH!
      I know that HGH injection is very good for antiaging, but I dont have enough money for it…

      Is there any good and effective HGH or Anti-Aging supplement that works good and is not too expensive?
      I need to look beautiful and young for my Husband, please!

      Nov 28, 2009 at 12:44 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • romeo
      romeo

      @Aabida: Try Resveratrol and Protandim, they’re clinically proven super-antioxidants and reasonably priced. HGH is unproven and possibly has long term side effects.

      Also, you better be staying off gay American websites or your Syrian husband is going to all up in you ass I fear. LOL

      Good luck, honey.

      Nov 28, 2009 at 2:40 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sweattirepher
      Sweattirepher

      [b]Moral dilemna![/b]

      What’s up? Been lurking for a while and decided to sign up and post.

      Well, tbh I had this experience recently. Here’s what happened After classes I took the bus, I was hungry so I stopped in at this restaurant and ordered a sandwitch and then went off to eat it in a corner when I was done I remembered I didn’t pay!

      Yeah evidently they were super busy and distracted because there was this manager/investor type looking around everywhere and talking to them. So I was just about to go up to the counter and say I hadn’t paid but then I realized if I did that the owner guy might get mad at the employees. So I just left. What should I have done do you think?

      Jan 2, 2010 at 2:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • trogsantase
      trogsantase

      Not sure where to post this but I wanted to ask if anyone has heard of National Clicks?

      Can someone help me find it?

      Overheard some co-workers talking about it all week but didn’t have time to ask so I thought I would post it here to see if someone could help me out.

      Seems to be getting alot of buzz right now.

      Thanks

      Mar 31, 2010 at 4:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • smodonfourn
      smodonfourn

      hello

      how are you?
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      my name is Andreyka i from africa

      Apr 12, 2010 at 10:20 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • stooxZolf
      stooxZolf

      http://www.333eur.com/

      Jun 16, 2010 at 12:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 68alex
      68alex

      I’m really sure lot’s of you are like jokes.

      Why not share here your favorite jokes so others can know about it :)

      Below is my favorite joke which is Needles Are Not Nice

      Bill and Bob, two children, were sitting outside a clinic. Bill happened to be crying very loudly.
      “Why are you crying?” Bob asked.
      “I came here for a blood test,” sobbed Bill.
      “So? Are you afraid?”
      “No. For the blood test, they cut my finger.
      As Bob heard this, he immediately began crying profusely.
      Astonished, Bill stopped his tears and asked Bob, “Why are you crying now?”
      To which Bob replied, “I came for a urine test!”

      Bob was very stupid, thinking his vital will be cut for a urine test

      Jul 19, 2010 at 8:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Thereh44
      Thereh44

      Hellu I feelt like doing this topic so hi

      Aug 18, 2010 at 7:31 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • EFFESSYCIND
      EFFESSYCIND

      Watch ALLFREESEX.NET 1000 000 ACCESSIBLE Porn Videos !!!

      Apr 6, 2011 at 8:55 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sexmengyrl
      sexmengyrl

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    • PitersGriffing
      PitersGriffing

      I found the answer in google, remove the topic pls.

      Dec 25, 2011 at 3:51 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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