Friday Forum: Can Gay Rights Save the Economy?
It’s that time of the week, when Queerty takes a break from the opinion-making and puts you, the readers, in charge. Each Friday, we invite you to be the pundit on a hot-button question facing the LGBT community and its allies. As always, we expect people to be respectful and considerate of others by refraining from personal attacks. We present the information, you make the decision.
It’s the new line from Republicans across the country: “How can we possibly move on gay rights when the economy is in trouble?” Conservative groups have now latched onto the economy as a reason why lawmakers should not act on gay marriage bills across the states. A National Organization for Marriage Rhode Island radio ad tells listeners:
“These are the same legislatures who don’t have time to balance our budget, to restrain out-of-control spending, or come to some kind of agreement on immigration, but they have time to mess with gay marriage?”
And a Focus on the Family spokesperson has been quoted as saying:
“Our country is in a period of economic uncertainty, and people should contact their state legislators and urge them to promote family and societal stability.”
Yet a number of studies have shown that gay marriage would boost the economy. The Congressional General Accounting Office suggests that if gay marriage were enacted in all 50 states, it would be a billion dollar industry and a new report out from the Williams Institute at the UCLA School of Law, titled The Economic Impact of Extending Marriage to Same-Sex Couples in Maine, finds that in three years, gay marriage would bring $60 million to the economy of the state and another $3.1 million in local funds and tax revenues.
Perhaps the question to ask this week is not if gay rights should take a backseat to the economy (though feel free to debate that issue), but rather, is there an opportunity to make an economic argument for gay marriage? If you can’t win them through their conscience, why not woo their wallet?
We submit to you? Should we make the economic case for gay marriage? And if so, how?
Simple short answer YES. Of course gay marriage is not going to turn the whole economy around, but it will help a lot of businesses (especially small businesses). My other argument is in regards to all the money being spent on both sides fighting and supporting this. This is money that could otherwise be in the economy supporting business and buying goods.
Most important possibly is the fact that once this culture war is over and all rights are covered federally, that everyone will be able to step back a bit and enjoy more of their life. Although I fear that gay marriage is destined to go the way of abortion and even after it is settled, will still be an issue for several following decades.
**disclaimer – I know a couple people in Massachusetts and Connecticut who work in this industry and they have done considerable well as these are the only two places to legal get married and out of state gays are allowed to married. Of course summer is the busy season. Who wants to get married on the Vineyard, the Cape or Nantucket in the winter.
And on a lighter note, as the Daily Show taught us last night, Utah Republicans have time to argue against “The Monkey Bite Bill” on the floor of the house, so it’s not like they can really claim any high ground on time management on the economic crisis.
More importantly the failed ideas of Reagan that we’ve lived with for 30 years are dead!!!
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02.....=2&hp
Having lived during the days of when it was fun to be gay and you did not have to wear a raincoat to have sex I find this gay marriage argument a bit tiring. Why one absolutely must walk down an aisle and show the world you are gay is not going to stop the bigots. It will only make more of them and actually strengthen/resurrect the religious right. Stay tuned.
I have yet to hear a believable argument as to how it will improve the economy. To each his own beliefs.
We can not let our guard down. If you look at the amount of anti-gay legislation that is being debated at the state level it becomes clear that the economic crisis will not hamstring our enemies, it is actually emboldening them.
On the federal level, it is almost laughable to me that the US House and Senate claim they can’t spend time on LGBT civil rights yet they spent hours debating a bill banning pet chimps, and it passed the House of Reps last week.
Remember last session we were told the iraq war was more important. For those too spineless to stand up and do the right thing there will always be a chicken shit excuse they can lean on. I don’t think that anyone would have accepted the excuse that the country had the Vietnam war to deal with instead of passing civil rights legislation. And if they did, people would have not stood for it.
“It’s that time of the week, when Queerty takes a break from the opinion-making and puts you, the readers, in charge. ”
I like this, but I’m still not sure how this is any different from any other article that allows comments.
@Sebbe: How very true! Btw, did you see my favorite SMOKIN’ HOT economist opine on the budget?
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02.....ef=opinion
Overall, I agree with Paul Krugman that it’s a good start. Still, Japhy makes a good point that we can create even more stimulus by repealing DOMA and allowing more of us to have our dream weddings! (Except mine, as I don’t think Paul Krugman’s single. Sigh.) ;-)
@adtleft – I saw Paul’s piece as well! Yeah your right he is married, I think she is at Princeton, not sure? Did you seem him at the Nobel ceremonies. He was adorable. LOL
@gurlene:
Obviously, you haven’t been listening.
Tying economics to our civil rights strikes me as loathsome. Whether or not there’s money in it for the straights shouldn’t be the impetus for making the decision.
That said, it’s nice to know there’s even less basis in rational thought to take the bigot position. Not that there ever was any.
@Tim in SF:
I hear what you are saying, Tim.
Why does the expression “All’s fair in love and in war” keep running around inside my head, however? LOL
@Tim in SF:
But, but…but LIFE is about economics!!??
What??
Come on dude…..
Do I like it? No.
Did I HAVE to understand it? Yes.
@Tim in SF – I hear what you are saying, but how often does the American government act on anything that is not in its economic interest.
What is all that crap about “creating wealth” or whatever the hell they ramble about non-stop?
@Sebbe: “I hear what you are saying, but how often does the American government act on anything that is not in its economic interest.”
I would think a casual observance of the California corrections system would disabuse you of that notion. Or the War on Drugs, for that matter. Or anything military-related.
@Tim in SF – I didn’t mean to imply its “best” economic interest.
I agree with what you are saying mostly especially your ethical argument. I’m just wondering if that is the case of the government.
I do not know, nor care to know much about the California (well anything really) Correction System- but it surely is a huge economic engine that someone is profiting off of (although surely not the people of your state).
War on Drugs – Again we probably agree, but huge money in it for someone.
Military – Again, I’m pretty sure our opinions are the same, and while the American tax payer is not reaping the rewards, their certainly are some (many) that have (and are making) a fortune off of the American military.
I’m just saying that their is usually an economic competent to almost everything. If we can use that to our advantage, we should, even if it is only a small point, a part of many reasons. There are many right wingers who hate us, but wouldn’t give it a second thought to take our dollars.
If there’s an economic argument to be made for gay rights, it would need to be far stronger than to benefit wedding planners, event venues, florists, etc, not that wedding-related businesses shouldn’t and wouldn’t benefit.
I think the argument would have to be along the lines of empowerment and entrepreneurship (is that a word?). When gay citizens aren’t worried about getting smashed up in the streets, or being fired, or having their kids taken away from them, they will be more productive. When our jobs and families are stable, we earn more, spend more, pay more taxes, gentrify more neighborhoods.
Smarter people than I can think it through and do the math on all this, but it seems to me that fairness and equality absolutely would benefit the nation’s economic health.
The only downside would be for the religious bigots who raise gazillions on our backs. They might suffer some income loss, but that doesn’t make me especially sad. Snark.
RichardR – good points
Well heck…just look at all the money the lawyers would make on divorces and property settlements that they are not now getting. HeeHee
I totally think we can save the economy, but with all the hate that’s been bestowed up us lately, I say fuck ‘em, let ‘em rot!
yes most of us are responsible in our economy.We don’t need to freakout ourselves.WE can solve a problem/s.
I am with MB00: I am not over the bitter sting of prop 8. I am THRILLED to see these ‘family values’ people suffer. Thrilled that teachers are being fired. (I aint got kids). We are DINKS, doing ok- thanks. Screw em’(working class families) hard. You want my love? Show a hint of respect.
@ Mark,
What about the gay folks with kids? Fuck them too? California, Colorado, Connecticut, District of Columbia, New York, New Jersey, New Mexico, Oregon, and Vermont all allow Gay couples to adopt and accept that gay families are “real” families. Should we punish them along with the assholes?
And that doesn’t even include the LGBT with biological children. Should we tell them to “fuck off” too?
@Phoenix – I think Massachusetts and Illinois do as well.
Good point you brought up as well, thank you.
gay marriage means an influx of two income home buyers into the housing market. an inrease in the sale of goods and services (just for the weddings alone). being able to be on a partners medical means more cash in pocket for spending. seems win win for me and i wrote as much to my local paper.
just think what this could do to the depressed toaster oven market!
@RichardR: read my post it is more than just money for wedding planners.
oh, besides the weddings there will be other spending. got to furnish taht new house! it is a win win for the economy and gays.
just think of all the money saved with no fights about rights or don’t ask don’t tell. the only people making money are the antu rights groups and none of the money they are spending is going anywhere near the economy. this is money better served buying consumer goods.
@Phoenix (Wants to Move to Canada Because Saying Saskatoon Saskatchewan is Fun):
Saskatoon IS fun, (and beautiful) actually. And it’s probably the only place on the planet right now that’s NOT in recession.
The whole notion that you can’t move on a social rights issue (GLBT, women, multiculturalism, labour, environmental) because the economy is in the toilet is just an excuse for government to not act because they don’t want to.
They would prefer us to think the key to turning everything around is to prop up the dirty car companies and have everything else trickle down on the rest of us.
It’s a lie, because it’s the big business pirate capitalism model that put everyone into this shit in the first place.
Most of the mechanism for economic turnaround is stuff we have a lot of control over with the voting power of our dollars. You want to help your local economy – that means buying fair and local whenever possible, and that goes double for queer-friendly business.
And you know, I think people coming up here to Canada for wedding tours can’t be too bad for the economy either (ironically, I remember some friends of ours went Hawaii for their ceremony before it was legal in Canada).
@Phoenix (Wants to Move to Canada Because Saying Saskatoon Saskatchewan is Fun):
p.s. there are a lot of other Canadian place names that are fun to say, from the traditional, like Pukatawagan, Kapuskasing, and Waywayseekappo to the truly bizarre like Dildo, Climax and Big Beaver.
But then you Americans have Kentucky and Tennessee. Reading those place names is better than watching TV, IMHO.
Hi everyone. I’m new here so I just wanted to say hi