There is nothing that your body needs from red meat that you cannot get from another plant protein source. As far as fish, I am not a vegan, because I still eat seafood (mostly Salmon), against my doctors orders, but… as far as the red meat, it is probably the worst thing you can eat, besides all the processed food that is sold everywhere in the US.

Like I said I am not an expert so I will let someone else address your other issues/questions/concerns. I just wanted to reiterate that part, it is not a simple as cutting meat/fish out of your diet, you need to replace what you do get from them from another source that is usually healthier all around for you (and less fat).

on the contrary, there is a (girl) friend that is all about PETA. she has heart problems. she has chest pains. her blood is out of wack completely (she won’t give me the details). her doctor told her to eat more fish and to have red meat at least twice a month or so. she refuses and her body is deteriorating and she is in constant turmoil… and i’m here to watch her suffer.

i don’t know a doctor (a real doctor) on the planet who would not promote a balance diet… someone who takes into consideration a person’s body and ancestry and says “hey… go vegan”. please provide a name. please give me examples of vegetarian body builders. say something other than my researched doctor and dietitian is a quack just because you think so.

otherwise, this is all pointless. i feel like i’m arguing for condoms to barebackers who think there is no such thing as HIV or mormons who think the american indians are descendants of the apostles. i can’t argue against people without common sense or with people who’s scientific knowledge is handed to them from a biased platform.

i can say nothing more.

You can also check here: http://www.activistcash.com/or.....cfm/oid/21

They lay out a lot more issues than I did.

I’m not saying the cause isn’t worthwhile; I am saying that PETA may not be the most trustworthy proponents of it.

See post no. 48.

You either had such a hideous diet before that eating anything with nutritive value would have helped you (if you lost 110 pounds in a year, you were morbidly obese, which proves my point); or you are delusional. Morbidly obese people almost always are. It’s a disease.

As others have said on various blogs, for only one example, Gay organizations pleaded for tolerance and understanding for years, but the White Night riots in California changed police attitudes towards Gays overnight. Ditto with the race riots & march on Washington in the sixties. How about the Civil War? Correct me if I’m wrong, but major changes don’t come by nice talk.

Probably ALL organizations have extremist members on both fringes with the majority of the members in the middle and to point to the extremes and say “takes the wind out of their sails” really doesn’t prove much. Most everyone agrees or at least says “what a shame about the suffering of food animals” and “what a shame women feel the need for so many abortions” but what do most of us really do about it?

What I’m trying to say here is it is easy to sit back and criticize organizations that try to do something. Does PETA exist for its own sake? Are the sincere members simply misled? I don’t know. I do know that ALL organizations have to do some self promotion, fund raising etc. or they cease to exist.

We will agree 100% on one thing – if a million rats needed to be sacrificed to cure AIDS I wouldn’t have a problem with that!

but… you’re proving my point – just because YOUR body accepts a certain dietary habit, doesn’t mean everyone else can. and because mine can’t… i get labeled and judged… ON A GAY WEBSITE. the lack of realism in the face of reality is staggering – if someone said PETA was started by Scientology, i would say “oh, that figures”. i don’t need a pompous, self-inflated organization to tell me “hey, if you’re going to eat chicken, don’t eat at a fast food joint – buy organic free-range and cook at home.”

guess what? that’s what i do.

respect over consumption. give over greed. understanding over selfishness. these are the things i stand for and NONE of them are what PETA represents.

There was a time in our early development, when we too were a part of the food chain. Only with the application of our intellect and only with our learning how to make and use tools, were we able to remove ourselves from the food chain and move to the top of it.

Rationalizing over the eating of other animal forms, is about as redundant, as arguing over whether a lion or a tiger is violating God’s laws (or our own) by hunting down and eating a Zebra. Obviously, some animals seem to have evolved as herbivores and others have evolved as carnivores. Others, like humans, seem to have evolved to be both and while I would be the first to agree that excessive eating of red meat causes a host of medical problems, there is no reason to suspect that a healthy balance of vegetables, fruits, nuts and berries and lean meats is detrimental to anyone. Ill health can be brought on by a variety of causes that have absolutely nothing to do with diet.

Smoking. Consuming alcohol. Doing drugs. Breathing polluted air. Indulging in risky sex. Excessive exposure to sunlight and not getting enough sleep are but a few of the things that contribute to sickness and even death.

It should also be pointed out that organizations like PETA, however well intentioned (can we also say HRA) exist for their own celebration. Are they really committed to the cause for which they stand? if the “problem” disappears, so might they. And we all know the old adage “A bureaucracy, once created, continues to exist long after the need for it has disappeared.” They would simply find another “worthy cause” and jump on that bandwagon.

Organizations like these see (and acknowledge) only their point of view and what they consider to be the “truth”. No one else’s opinion, especially when it differs from theirs, is worthy of consideration or discussion.

Anti-abortionist’s are a good example in point. While I will not get into a debate about this also very controversial topic, we are all too familiar with some of the radical extremists who have defaced property, slurred and profaned physicians good names and in some instances, even killed them…all in the name of “preserving life”.

Kind of takes the wind out of their sails, doesn’t it?

My only problem is with PETA’s hypocrisy and anti-human stances. I’m sorry, but if it would cure AIDS or cancer or any heinous disease, I’d willingly sacrifice a million rats. As far as arson, bombings, and vandalism, which are all things PETA has directly or indirectly offered their endorsement of, I cannot rationalize that activity for this particular cause. I think they would do better to distance themselves from extremist fringe groups. It would certainly make them appear more reasonable.

And have you heard about the PETA folks who are facing charges for lying to people, telling them they intended to find homes for animals they gave them, only to euthanize them right in the van and dump the bodies in a dumpster? Doesn’t sound like people who love animals to me.

And the fact that in 2003 alone they euthanized over 90% of the animals entrusted to their care? They said these animals were hopeless causes, unable to be rehabilitated, and they were putting them out of their suffering. Funny then that the shelter a few miles down the road was able to place somewhere around 70% of their animals in adoptive homes.

I honestly don’t believe PETA is interested in helping animals as much as it is interested in garnering publicity for itself. Their tactics don’t show me that they even make an honest effort at communicating with their fellow humans on a reasonable, rational level. Instead, they prefer to enrage and condescend, and as a result, they turn off more people than they talk into supporting them. They’re little more than arrogant publicity-whores.

And Vernon – yeah, some of that stuff sounds a bit extremist but not all of it or even most of it. Like another poster said if you can’t even get people’s attention, you can’t change their minds.

What I’m going to say is not necessarily things you’re unaware of but I want to be clear and for the other reader’s info.

However, I will also concede that if it is so extreme or tasteless that you immediately turn people off, you can’t get anywhere either. OK, you got quite a list there, and a couple things really look bad. Let’s take your first one – our entire lives we’re fed contradictions – we watch cartoons about Bambi and Bugs Bunny but then our parents lie to us about what is at the dinner table. Most obviously by calling something hamburger or steak or “nuggets” instead of dead ground up cow flesh or chicken flesh, which is what it is.

The second example about smashing windows – I wouldn’t do it, and I don’t think Bruce Friedrich was advocating it as something everyone should or must do to be a PETA member. But it speaks to the constant stream of lies we were fed since we were children about how animal research is conducted, how meat is made. Meat companies themselves show the red barn, sunny skies and white fences and the animals are out in a beautiful meadow. The truth couldn’t be further away – and so some people acknowledge animals have feelings and they aren’t just meat machines. Imagine how upset you would be if someone dissected your pet cat or dog ALIVE? This actually happens in the butcheries to cows etc. The stun guns don’t always work, or work all the way. I have seen a dog get its feelings hurt by an owner, I know my cat is happy to see me when I get home.

How can one ignore the fact a sheep can recognize over 100 faces? So, I can see how someone like Friedrich can make a remark like that and not be a complete lunatic.

And I’ve said this before, I wonder if (some not all here) people would be so casually advocating such callous positions about animals if they actually visited a factory farm or a rescue farm and saw the remains of brutalized animals left for dead or rejected for meat production because they were too sickly, tossed in a heap with living and dead animals alike.

THAT is extreme too!

“Even if animal research resulted in a cure for AIDS, we would be against it.”

Who said that? Oh, the president of PETA said that.

“Blowing stuff up and smashing windows” is “a great way to bring about animal liberation. Hallelujah to the people who are willing to do it.”

Who said that? Oh, that was PETA vegetarian campaign coordinator Bruce Friedrich.

Which activist group has murdered nearly 20,000 dogs, cats, and other “companion animals” since 1998? Yeah, that was PETA.

Who has handled the press for the Animal Liberation Front (ALF), a group of fanatics who plant firebombs in restaurants, destroy butcher shops, and torch research labs? Yup, PETA.

Who announced with a 2001 billboard that a shark attack on a little boy was “revenge” against humans who had it coming anyway? Of course.

Who, when called out for a tasteless ad campaign comparing chickens to Holocaust victims, responded by saying “Six million people died in concentration camps, but six billion broiler chickens will die this year in slaughterhouses?” Well, that was PETA president Ingrid Newkirk.

Who distributed a pamphlet to school children entitled “Your Mommy Kills Animals!” that featured a demented cartoon “mommy” about to stab a bunny? Mmm hmm.

Sounds pretty extremist to me. If you don’t think it does, then maybe you should get counseling or something.

I’ll tell you what to do: Find another doctor. The one you have is a quack.

they are a group of people with no morals or balanced thinking. the ends ALWAYS justifies the means no matter who they have to harm, blow up, degrade, or lie to – and all for animals they end up killing anyway. their “our way or no way” mentality is tantamount to a religious cult where common sense is trumped by mission each and every time.

what is worst, is there is no allowance for individuality. we are all human beings AND WE ARE ALL DIFFERENT. one person needs for survival will kill another. i HAVE to have some meat. there is no choice. this is the doctor’s orders (small amounts of red meat every once in a while – mostly poultry). i have to have some fish. there is no choice. whether i order a salmon or drink fish oil from a bottle – i’m still killing a fish. so what do i do?

i make choices that are best to my environment, my community, and my health. i have chosen to bypass the commercialism enterprise forcing over-consumption. anyone who stops eating meat because of cruelty to animals is cutting off the nose to spite the face. i cannot do that and remain healthy.

yet PETA does not allow me to do that. it doesn’t take individual people into consideration. it doesn’t think about the glue, ink, mineral oils, vodka distilled through charred animal bones, etc. there are more animal byproducts in one PETA fundraiser than go through any McDonalds in the USA (maybe McDonalds was a bad example….). even Vegan.com says it’s impossible to be completely animal byproduct free.

that’s fine. we’re working in that direction. that’s cool. i still think vegetarians are hypocrites… i still think vegans are cool and trying.

so whereas the IDEA is fine… the holier-than-tho ‘if you eat meat you’ll get high blood pressure’ ‘anyone who is a carnivore is killing the planet’ ‘let’s rename fish to make them cute’ places PETA on a platform worthy of criticism. i get condemned for trying to maintain a lifestyle I NEED to survive. It reminds me of the religious cult that currently has my mother in it’s grips. there is no room for error, there is no room for individual healthy choices.

THAT is what PETA did to me.

As a gay PETA member, I find the sheer hatred directed at PETA to be unfortunate. What exactly did PETA ever do to you personally that was so horrible that you have to be so vehement and angry? If it’s just that you disagree with their message, so what? Don’t we still have a right to free speech in this country? If you don’t think so, you’re no different than those who try to shut us up when we advocate for equal rights for GLBT Americans, just because it makes them uncomfortable.

Please learn the truth before you speak and spread falsehoods. Visit PETA’s website — http://www.PETA.org — and read what they’re really about. PETA’s message is simply that we shouldn’t cause unnecessary harm to animals. That’s it, really.

People who throw around excessive terms like “extremists” or “terrorists” are clearly grasping for an excuse to ignore some uncomfortable truths. No, seriously. How is it any different from homophobic Utah legislator Chris Buttars calling gay people “mean,” “radical,” and “the greatest threat to America?”

Yes, PETA does attention-getting stunts. Again, so what? You can’t change people’s minds without getting their attention, and PETA learned long ago that, in effecting social change, being effective is more important than being liked or even respected. Our community’s organizations (and individuals) would do well to stop hating on PETA and start learning from them.

As to eating a load of spinach – have you heard of nuts and seeds? If you really want information on how to eat vegetarian, it is out there.

Another tidbit most people don’t know – The American Dairy Association was founded in the early 1900′s to push milk into the schools. It was the ONLY source of (biased) nutrition information until probably the 60′s. I used to hear their name invoked on the radio in an almost sacred way when in reality they are just a trade organization, like the National Snack Food Institute. Would you care what the NSFI said about eating healthy? For many years people listened to the ADA as if eating tons of ice cream, butter and cream was so healthy.

http://blog.peta.org/archives/.....a_drag.php

Their transphobic “fur is a drag” campaign equates the “ridiculous” act of wearing fur to the <> equally ridiculous act of dressing drag.

Our overly carnivorous diet is simply unsustainable. Not only are we killing off so many endgangered species and threatening the biodiversity of so many parts of the world, but we’re also worsening the climate crisis by creating so much demand for meat so allow the creation of all these “factory farms”.

Frankly, we need a rude awakening.

You’ve never met a bodybuilding vegeterian or vegan. There are many. Some would say I have some muscles and I am vegetarian (not, Jaroslaw, a vegan – sorry).

first off, animal protein is not the worst for you – synthetic supplements are. if you want long and lean – you go veggie. if you want strong and muscular, you need to incorporate meat. works for humans, works for the animal kingdom… it’s amazing.

try feeding a lion tofu for his entire life – then come back and talk about animal cruelty.

now, the conditions in which mass food is produced can be atrocious (not always – i have a friend that worked at a slaughterhouse). this says more about human consumption and fast food chains’s control over our appetites. it has nothing to do with vegetarian vs. carnivores. we can have a discussion about capitalistic commercialism and the exploitation of animals and i would totally agree with all points.

my solution is to not eat fast or easy food. i only eat at restaurants that serve local foods/animals/etc. and no chain restaurants at all. mostly 1 just cook at home based off what i buy (organic, free range, etc. etc. etc. but to abandon meat/fish/poultry all together is not a healthy answer.

plus, there is a hypocritical aspect to vegetarians. death is NOT the worst thing that can happen to an animal. pumping it full of hormones, sticking it’s head through a hold and poking it’s ass till an egg falls out day after day out is far worse than lopping it’s head off. injecting a cow with needles and sticking suctions on it’s tits for 24 hours a day is far worse then knocking it over the head and putting it out of it’s misery.

so i appreciate what vegans are trying to do. i get their point. it’s just not possible. everything from envelope glue to vodka can be made with animal parts. it’s noble, but not realistic.

PETA, on the other hand… are a bunch of freaks, and their moral character tends to be more animalistic then the very creatures they are trying to protect.