What wisdom does Pat Robertson have to share with the world this week?
Related: Pat Robertson Warns That “Love Affairs Between Men And Animals Absolutely Will Be Permitted”
A fan wrote in to the 700 Club concerned with all that devilish acceptance they’d witnessed in a house of God.
“I was visiting a church with a Christian friend of mine. I was shocked that the pastor was openly gay and talked about this with everyone. I asked my friend if he accepted this and he said he did because he did not think it was a sin. I left the church later and told my friend I would not be going back because I think this is a sin against Christianity. Was I right or wrong to leave?”
Related: Gay Atheists Should Be Treated Like Drug Addicts, Pat Robertson Says
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Robertson, visibly agitated that this issue hasn’t been firmly put to rest by now (God clearly said it’s an abomination, like, four thousand years ago), informed the viewer:
“To have a church saying [homosexuality] is not a sin, it’s okay, they’re leading people down the road to perdition…If I were you, I would stay far away from them.”
Watch below:
h/t RightWingWatch
Jeff Rice
Strange how someone that preaches God’s love can be so full of hate. I pity the man.
William Meyer
See you there asshole!
David Sutton
What would our country do without Southern Baptist preachers! LOL. Deliver me!
AJ Sarabia
Why is it talking?
Gerald GeeLocke Panuthos
Only that debilitating old kook is going first!!! ð??¿
Damon Hatton
Heaven is going awfully empty then isn’t it ya douche nozzle!
Dwight Hart
Omg
He self righteousness preaching the word on tv
Beware of false prophets like pat Robertson
Aragon Draco
He has an unnatural obsession with gay sex. One would think he might be hiding something… Possibly?
William Perri
WHEN IS HE GOING TO DIE SO GOD CAN TELL HIM HOW WRONG HE WAS , BEFORE HE SENDS HIM TO HELL !!!!!!!
Joseph Puleo
So says the one who if there really IS s hell will be right at the front of the line
Tara Jill Brucilla Emerson
Oh Pat! Gay people don’t think about gayness and gay sex as much as Pat does.
Wayde Gordon Manning
lol
Maxxwell Mcguire
Glad to have the company.
Troy Geary
Whatever Pat.
Rick Wetzler
ASS HOLE, its not 4000 years ago it’s 2015.
Ivan Alberto Lugo
Wow so much hatred is amazing how one person can be so mentally disturb!!! He needs to retired like NOW!!!!
Chance Petersen
this is what we are supposed to do and he may never get it? ð???
Doug Lia
It’s going to be crowded down there—and he is going to miss all the fun!!!
Pita Jim
hell is for haters pat
Marshall R. Krug
why do you people still give this relic of the past, any press at all.
Kris McCleery
I’ll go wherever he isn’t …
Robert Cuthbertson
You have to buy into the fairy tales, fables and myths of your religion to believe this BS. Seriously, hate is learned so well but ignorance is a choice.
Chris Dexter
You old bastard I wish you would just die already. Using the bible as a tool to segregate humanity… May you burn in hell
Jim Roots
Fucking idiot
George McSwain Jr
Old men that spew hate will be there first.
William Bryant Jacobs
At his age, he’ll be dead soon.
Terry Navarro
Is anyone still listening to this person
Sam Azteca
Ask your god for brains old fart…you REALLY need them!!!
Lancome Counter
Matthew chapter 7. 1â??Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
Joshua Erich Huffman
Well I guess Jesus will be in hell too then lol
Phranc Azzhee
Ha! Not much $ for this dude so all he has are hateful words!
Dominic Mancuso
Douglas Schlitz
Hey Pat. F.O. , and that doesn’t stand for far out !
Etta Saunders
Ignorance
Guido Habets
cosy
Charles Winston
Pat go to hell. You talk about homosexuality but straights are any better when they commit adultery.
Bobby French
If hell exists, Pat Roberson might be very surprised who he is going to see when he gets there!
aliengod
Enough with this geriatric douchebag already! Stop giving him any publicity.
Mark Jenkins
Pat’s the one going to Hell- On SKATES!
Joseph Pasquino
Why does he go away. No one cares about him any more
itsmyhusbandandme
I’d stay away from, him, if I were you.
Jean-Paul
itsmyhusbandandme.wordpress.com
Derek Perron
Stop paying this guy any attention. It’s over.
Ai-Quoc N. Heller
Duh!
Paul John Vozzella
Asswhole
Gary Allen
Who knew this shriveled knob was still alive? I thought by now he would have met his Maker and be chewing hair in Hell alongside Oral Roberts.
Jane Cain
Pat, you’re already in Hell. Sounds like your lonely and want to excite hate so more haters will join you there. We have no place for your kind here.
Cam
What a shock, an old man who lives off the money he can scare out of people is screaming bigotry.
Sam Molloy
Albert Ho
He is the false prophet
Scott Deer
So is he for passing judgment
Richard Goodnight
It will be quite a party!!
Nate Valriz
Ugh when it’s this guy going to die? He sure looks half way there.
Brian Crim
So we’re going to hell for LOVING who we love but you’re not going for HATING millions of people you DON’T EVEN KNOW? Yeah ok buddy keep on dreaming
M J Martinez Crogan
Brainwashed for believing such nonsense
Chance Petersen
Just letting you all know something but this is my own words, nothing against what the Bible says or Jesus’s words were told in the holy book… But I’ve read a lot of books to which they do come with different perspectives and a couple bible as well as some of Torah. People in this world is ignoring one most important commandment, and it was spoke by Jesus himself, Love thy neighbours as I’ve loved you. All people with hate like that is not being received by Jesus himself. I believe that’s why the road to heaven is VERY narrow… And when the time comes believers would end up with gnashing of teeth because they used hate toward others. Even those of believers (including pastors) will be left behind. Jesus will tell them “away from me I don’t know you, evildoers” says so in the book of revelation! Wake up people!
Allan Koeditz
Praying for him!
Cam
One thing for the Website to notice. Actual stories get way more comments than the multiple posts with some random shirtless guy on them.
Octavio Roca
Hell is sounding better and better.
Nathaniel McManus
No, Hell is for children!
Oops, wrong Pat,
Chance Petersen
So the question is… what’s wrong with love? It’s beautiful. I’ve felt it a lot of times. It’s awesome feeling. Nay nay nay, pick pick pick, kill kill kill, hurt hurt hurt torment torment torment blah blah blah… Is not love. It’s ugly! Now why Jesus don’t want anything ugly. And LOVE is not ugly at all.
Elon L Bugyi
Pat, please, please, please get some professional help. You are psychologically unbalanced and need immediate counseling.
Selene Miranda Drake-David
…”in the Old Testament”… Get your theology, uh, “straight” … Christ came to change the Old Testament and the only commandment he endorsed when asked was “Love one another.”
Ezequiel Golden
Only God can decide.He is no body to say who will or will not go to hell.God is love and loves everyone I’m gay my self and I’ve learned that as long as you are a good person and do no harm to others you will be good in gods eyes.
Jerry Turner
If PR really believes that, he is not a born-again Christian. And thus he will be the one who goes to hell. Enough said.
Scott Groves
Please go meet Jesus already!!!
William Holahan
Poor old Pat, when he dies and goes to Heaven he will be eternally unhappy, racking his brain trying to understand what he did wrong on Earth. All this because he saw gay people and thinks he is in Hell.
Rick Holtz
OMG! This man is nothing but a hypocrite, is NOT a christian but IS a total douchebag! Rot in Hell, Patty Boy!
Belinda Merriman
Imbecile
Corey Walker
Seriously! This guy needs to be taken off the air
Atrius
He wishes. There is no fucking hell, moron.
Rick Collier
Yeah, I thought maybe God had the final judgment but here is the immortal words of Pat Robertson!
Morten Jensen
Sounds like the basis for a good party down under. …. I guess since it is said to be quite warm there that clothing is optional!?
jwtraveler
So what else is new?
Maggie Shields Sullivan
This man is certifiably crazy. Lock him up!!!!!!
Jeremy Coburn
Will somebody give grampa some jello? He’s s little crank again.
AxelDC
People who so gleefully condemn others to Hell have no place in Heaven.
Monica DeGottardi
Well once again we can vacation is a warm climate.
Morgan S. Trouillet
so, not much left will get to heaven, right?
msc1208
He also said that pregnant women who post pictures of their sonograms on Facebook run the risk of witches casting evil spells on their unborn child. He must believe in witchcraft. That’s not very Christian, now is it?
Hank Trout
Nothing to see here, folks — just the Crypt-Keeper spewing more of his hateful nonsensical bile all over everyone.
GayEGO
Oh, but Pat Robertson justifies husbands cheating on wives? What a looney-tunes! :>)
tjport1980
If Pat Robertson is going to this ” Heaven ” I don’t want to go !
David Garcia
He is a closeted power bottom. Bottom’s up!
gskorich
i’m not sure why the woman would of written the letter in the first place. as for never going back to THAT church, why is she still talking to her friend? isn’t he living a pagan life as well. the fact you hate gays can not be the only reason you are a christian, there has to be to christianity
John Wadsworth
He doth speak too much.
Scott Haltom
Leading a lot of people to violate God’s word.
billeetee
Though I don’t really believe in Heaven OR Hell, I would certainly, if given the choice, prefer Hell just to not have to put up Robertson and His Kind!
James Dauria
why doesn’t this guy just go away-does he not read the bible, does he not understand God professed love for all-what the HELL is wrong with him
Michael Crowell
Die Pat.. Die.
mcflyer54
Robertson is a senile wack-job who has to pay television stations to carry his program (with a disclaimer disassociating themselves from the crap he spreads). If all of the other media outlets did the same (charged Robertson to promote his ignorance and bigotry) the man would have packed up his tent and left long ago. As long as Pat continues to get free press he’s gonna be around.
David Edman
“Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fullness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.” Ezekiel 16:49 KJV. Now Mr Robertson… tell me again why I’m going to Hell and you aren’t?
charlieeod74
If anyone is going to hell it will be Pat Robertson and his 700 Club zealots.
gaym50ish
What about the sin of deceiving people in order to get money from impoverished senior citizens to pay for your tax-free ministry? Can’t you go to Hell for that?
How about the sin of making gay people’s lives a living Hell by pretending you have a direct line to God? Can’t you go to Hell for saying that God told you gays caused Hurricane Katrina, when in fact the gayest neighborhood in New Orleans was spared?
What about the time in 1988, Pat, when God told you that Hurricane Bonnie was headed for Florida because Walt Disney World sponsored “gay days” at the theme park. How do you explain why the hurricane took a turn, missed Florida altogether and slammed your “700 Club” headquarters in Virginia?
Mark H. Brown
Save us a seat Pat!!!!!!
Lee Arboreen
And this coming from “Howdy Doody”??!! sheesh!
Will Glitzern
He is truly evil…senility is not an excuse.
Faye Ray Goudreau
oh Pat look at your own sins.
Erik Browne
So, when is it his turn? By the way this guy is the funniest man on the planet!
Miriam Macdonald
The place will be PACKED- standing room only
Jonathon Popphan
Quite frankly, I’d rather be in Hell than in Heaven with Pat Robertson. The truth, of course, is that Robertson will most likely find his place in the Inferno and not Paradise when he leaves this world. I pray that when he does die, Robertson meets the deity he’s been worshipping. His deity is mean, nasty, cruel and evil. May he rot in Hell.
Transiteer
Thought this relic was dead. Preach hate, Pat, preach hate – it’s what Jesus would want. F**king old troll. He doesn’t want charity to get in the way of people sending him money – its all about him and money eh. And you need an “enemy” to get stupid people to send you money. One can hope his tv audience will dry up after cluing into this fraud, and he can spend his final days watching his ‘ministry’ collapse, and his money disappear. As there is no god, therefore no hell, it’s only a heartwarming thought to think that this would be this old troll’s hell. Fingers crossed!
DutchGay
And why is Queerty giving this demented grandpa all this attention ? Geriatric patients should be treated, not publicated.
Jonathan Isaac Valentine
“Old people’s skin sags because it’s being pulled toward the underworld.”
Sameer Nurani
I think there is no place for you even in hell.
Thomas Villarreal
Why doesn’t that rock he’s living under just fall on top of him?
Steven Wayne Greer
Mark David
Another splurt of drivel from a demented old fussbudget. Can someone show him how to crochet?
Larry J Alarid
Just die already you hateful bag of hot air. Anyone who believes the crap that spews from your mouth is just as big of a douch as you are.
Steve Proo
He is a modern “Hitler”
Clinton Rainwater
no its Pat going to Hell cause he is judging and what did God say about that
Carly-Maria Ely
Does anyone else get the feeling that Pat is gay? That quote, ‘we hate about others what we most hate about ourselves’ comes to mind.
Not to mention, he is a senile old fool who gets trotted out on stage and hasn’t said anything profound about Christ’s love, ever. I can’t think of a single time when I was an actively worshipping Christian that I found something of his that was not contrary to the gospel and Jesus’ message of love, understanding, and tolerance.
ElwenBogar
@Kris McCleery: If heaven is filled with only people of his mindset, I bet hell is a much more pleasant alternative.
Linford J Gayle
glad he don’t have a heaven or a hell to put anybody in!
Derek Blanchard
There’s not much room down there anymore.
Tony Bautista
We are all going to hell including you Mr.Pat Robertson.
Alan Todd Keown Jr
So is he for preaching hate!!!
Steven Germann
Shouldn’t he be dead by now?!
Roy Langridge
Crawl into a hole and bury yourself
Marcus Antonius
Can someone pull the plug on this man?! Jeez looeeezzzz
Terri Ross
If gays were sending him boat laods of money, he wouldn’t say those things. Thief.
kb7rky
It’s sad to see how quickly dementia has addled the Reverend’s brain. At this stage, I’d be willing to bet he doesn’t even know who he is anymore.
He’s already got one foot in the grave.
mcflyer54
@kb7rky: if the reason for Robertson’s hate filled rhetoric is truly dementia you can rest assured it didn’t come on quickly. Old Pat has been spewing his hate for over 50 years and it’s always sounded lousy like it does now. So if it’s dementia then it’s po probably the longest case in history.
Kathukid
If all the gay people and their supporters are going to hell, then that’s where I was to be. I’d rather be in hell with good people than in heaven with evil ones. Maybe Christians have it all wrong. Maybe Heaven is just a completely boring mind-fuck filled with hypocrites and self-righteous assholes who read Bible verses all day, and Hell is where all the fun is really happening.
Charles R Morris
Hope I am here to see the day when the bowels of hell open up and swallow he and the Duggars up whole!
Kevin J Desmond
That old bastard loves sucking peter more than any gay man I know, it’s all he thinks about. Pat Robertson just swing them closest doors open already you bitter old mo and admit you like it up the tushy.
Frank House
Ka-ching…chuckle – chuckle as he laughs and waddles his way into the bank.
Paul Matwiow
Y-A-W-N-N-N-N.
Jery Tillotson
what would we faggot sinners do without dear ole patty! he knows the world like no one else and he knows so much about gay sex that we have to wonder if his profile name on pornhub isn’t: Open All Night.
Eric Gorham
1000 to 1 he’s a closet case and practices beastiality since he rants about both incessantly
youarekiddingme
First Pat, you mindless fuck, I don’t believe in your little “Floating Man In The Sky”!
Second, you spew sewage from your mouth. Do you eat from that nasty pie-hole too?
Finally, you have created your little world of HATE that surrounds you. All the money and all the 700 Club Members won’t put out that flame of hate that is burning in your gut. I hope you live for a long, long time! Let the fire burn you up for many years to come!
Jack Imbirowicz
So are haters
Daxton Norton
If there was a hell, that’s where all the interesting people would be.
Ives Meagher
Lindy-Lou Nicholson
Isn’t that pretty much what Westboro Baptist Church say, and why they picket the funerals of deceased Service Personell, as well as LGBT Allies?
The only difference is that he behaves in a more socially acceptable manner.
Victor Incerti
Satan waitng for him to arrive in Hell! Bon Voyage!
Mike Jasinski
While Pat is thinking about gay sex, gay people are wondering how to make a meatloaf in 45 minutes or less…
Gabriel Waldron
HOMOPHOBIA is a sin against God and humanity…. who is going to hell Pat Robertson???
Michael Kleinpeter
I’ll see you there queen!!
Robert Mulder
Hate is not a family value
Jamie Temple
Stephen McClintock
Hope he dies an awful long death very soon 🙂
Frank Neilsen
Wherever Pat Robinson is going, I don’t want to be there!
animatedgifman
Why do all these (so-called) Christian ‘experts’ consistently get it WRONG when stating that ALL LGBT persons are going to Hell when they die? Jesus Christ clearly stated differently. He said (in essence) that practicing (read: actively screwing) gays and lesbians have a 50/50 chance of getting into Heaven (just like everyone else):
In speaking presumably of the Rapture to come, Did Jesus condemn gays? No. Some scholars believe he did the opposite.
In Luke 17:34-35 Jesus said this:
“I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.”
He knew of and spoke directly about same-sex couples and one partner from each being taken at the appointed time. IOW, in and of itself, homosexual acts will NOT preclude one from entering Heaven.
The Bible-Thumping Liberal published an interesting background on this passage:
http://biblethumpingliberal.com/2011/05/22/harold-camping-the-rapture-and-good-news-for-gays-and-lesbians/
Once it becomes apparent that the word “grind” was used throughout the Old Testament to represent sexual activity, it’s pretty hard to deny that Jesus was talking
about two gay couples in this passage. This means that gays and lesbians, like everyone else on earth, have at least a fifty-fifty chance of getting into heaven.
In Matthew chapter 21, Jesus told the chief priests and the elders of the church:
“Truly I say to you that the tax collectors and prostitutes will get into the kingdom of God before you.”
Since Jesus himself said that prostitutes have a better chance of getting into heaven than certain church leaders and members, that tells us a lot about whether sexual sins are a priority in his book.
Barton Boehm
They’d rather be with us than him anyway.
Jim Sanchas
Wesley Foreman
Leigh Stewart
Just Maybe he is the Devil !!!!!
Korree Johnson
Save us a spot Pat!
Rimminit
The “revrand” Robertson is only polarizing the Christians . Maybe they’ll all kill each other and we will be rid of Christianity all together. Religion in the 21 st century is passé and only interfering in the process of salvaging our planet and society. Go away church goers! You are the problem – not the salvation!!!
Jason Shade Meow
….. I want him to play with matches….
James Moya
This is why the 700 club is not getting a renewal on their contracts after they expire, and why Joel Olsteen is stealing his viewership every sunday
Danny Driggers
He’s probably a closet gay
Amy Besnoy
It’s going to be one hell of a party!
Ron Russell
Jesus got it wrong then when He said the only unforgivable sin is denial of the Holy Spirit??? Or does this guy have it wrong? For me I follow Jesus and let him judge.
Kristen Mercer
Dan Pont
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r-e2NDSTuE
Erik Poortenga
They are indeed going to hell, and hell is going to be fabulous. 😉
Ken Overholt
How is this fossilized dinosaur turd still alive?
Norm Burns
Since when did JESUS GIVE UP THE JOB BEING GOD AND HAND HIS JOB TO PAT ROBINSON?
James Chesteen
He’s a douche bag!!! He’s the one going to hell before us!
Ra Hill
On Hillary & Bernie (borrowed )
“Itâ??s really okay that we donâ??t all agree on every single issue. But can we make an effort to not attack each other in the name of self-righteous indignation? Arenâ??t there enough right-wing trolls to raise our collective blood pressure? Do we really need to prey on our own?
Bernie wonâ??t get in Hillaryâ??s way if sheâ??s the ticket. Hillary wonâ??t get in Bernieâ??s way if heâ??s the ticket. If another Democratic rock star emerges, that person wonâ??t get in the way of whomever wins the Democratic primary. Only ONE of them will emerge the victor, and it is up to US to decide who that will be.” WE Must Support the Democratic ticket, And we Must VOTE!!!
Ricky Redick
who the hell made him god to pass judgement on anyone .
James Wall
Dumb Ass!!
Ricco Mashatt
He’s obsessed with gay life style. He can’t think straight (no pun) unless he’s talking about us! When we’re talked about we’re thought about. I say thank you! ð??ð?¾ð??ð?¾Even if it’s cra cra talk it’s fun comedy!! LOL
Jacques van Rooyen
Being Gay didn’t even make gods top 10, but adultery on the other hand……
Bellamy
The only bad thing here is that anyone actually believes that Pat Robertson speaks for the Lord. He is no different that the Pharisees that Jesus condemned.
Romans 10:2 says this about Robertson and people like him:
“I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge! For they, being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish THEIR OWN righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God!!”
1st Timothy 4:1-2 says,
“Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their conscience seared with a hot iron, FORBIDDING TO MARRY!”
-Rev. Jim Cunningham, D.D.
King James Bible Ministries International
GayChristianSurvivors.com
ranger1001
When is this old fool going to do us all a favor and die? Sorry, someone this miserable and so full of hate just doesn’t deserve to live. Dick
Gee Rosato
http://youtu.be/l14a4E0XiFc
Gale Fowler
Who keeps listening to him?
John Tweedy
Aren’t you dead yet!!
Maude
There is much evil, and much love to DEDUCE from the bible.
Taking the bible word for word, as one would a legal document, is as misguided as choosing a single definition of a word that has many definitions.
(‘to’-‘too’&’two’).
In every walk of life, applying Common Sense, must be paramount in all things that are open for discussion in our daily lives.
In the bible,there is much that does not make any sense at all, and Pat Robertson is preaching things to the faithful that he cannot know.
He can only be personally convinced of what he has chosen to believe.
To ‘know’ is to be able to provide proof…and he cannot.
Pat Robertson advises the faithful about what he is convinced is true, and uses the bible itself as proof of that which has never been, nor can ever be… proven.
If you do not believe what cannot be proven….where is the crime? There is only rejection of that which, for the most part, is unbelievable.
Finally, even the scientists have come to believe there was no ‘Big Bang’, and because of the fact that the universe exists, it proves nothing other than, well, that the universe does exist……. who or what created it, is an open question.
Ergo…Faith in A God, many Gods, or what?
To borrow a quote from Hamlet’s Soliloquy:
“To Be, Or Not To Be, That Is The Question”
youarekiddingme
You guys are giving this asshole wayyy too much attention! Share the love and spread your comments on their Facebook Page. Follow the link below:
https://www.facebook.com/700club?ref=ts&fref=ts
David Michael
who is he to judge? really who is he?
Joseph T Moran
Isn’t he dead yet?
Kalman Nagy Urr
He is a “good”, well mannered, aducated christian nazi,- isn’t he? In the name of ‘god’… ‘amen’!
Cajun Jay
God help you Pat Robinson. How dare you judge? Shame on you.
Harlan Snyder
They say “The Good Die Young”, that explains why this Old Mother Fucker is still around!
Tony Halterman
He need to go in to a n adult care hospital for insane.
Daggerman
..do we honestly have to put up with old cretins spouting rubbish like this? I cannot believe they still exist. Please anyone near to him just say–‘Get a Life’.
Michael Clifford
We’ll meet you down there, Pat!
Donna Kensick Trocano
This is why Christians leave the church. Because of self righteous, mean spirited, hate filled people like Pat Robertson.
NSB2244
And bigots like yourself will be leading the procession!
Tereasa
This idiot needs to retire. He so full of shit.
Edsel
@James Dauria: James, have you read the Bible? You’re right, Jesus did teach about love and forgiveness, but he also taught about the cost of sin, including sexual sin. From the New testamment.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Misty Bolling
Well that’s better than being with you
Louis
This man is an imbecile who has always given Christianity and Christians a bad name and I say that as an atheist.
He doesn’t deserve attention the only thing fools like this individual ever do is create more divisiveness hate and intolerance in this world then there already is.
He’s no Christian just an uneducated idiot.
1EqualityUSA
Edsel, Corintians was written by rabbinical Saul (Paul). The word homosexual wasn’t even in the Bible until 1940’s. Corinth was a bustling City with spice trades and all kinds of debauchery. Christ never said a word about it, perhaps because he knew something about orientation that Paul didn’t understand.
This next article if for you, Edsel, as I have posted this before (Sorry, Queertiers, for placing a long article, however it refutes Edsel so beautifully that I just have to repost this mother. I have to mobilize and don’t have time to write out for Biblically illiterate commenters why.
Dear Edsel,
Peter J. Gomes Professor of Christian Morals, Harvard University;Minister, American Baptist Church
Opposition to gays’ civil rights has become one of the most visible symbols of American civic conflict this year (1992), and religion has become the weapon of choice. The army of the discontented, eager for clear villains and simple solutions and ready for a crusade in which political self-interest and social anxiety can be cloaked in morality, has found hatred of homosexuality to be the last respectable prejudice of the century. Ballot initiatives in Oregon and Maine would deny homosexuals the protection of civil rights laws. The Pentagon has steadfastly refused to allow gays into the armed forces. Vice President Dan Quayle is crusading for “traditional family values.” And Pat Buchanan, who is scheduled to speak at the Republican National Convention this evening, regards homosexuality as a litmus test of moral purity.Nothing has illuminated this crusade more effectively than a work of fiction, “The Drowning of Stephen Jones,” by Bette Greene. Preparing for her novel, Ms. Greene interviewed more than 400 young men incarcerated for gay-bashing, and scrutinized their case studies. In an interview published in The Boston Globe this spring, she said she found that the gay-bashers generally saw nothing wrong in what they did, and, more often than not, said their religious leaders and traditions sanctioned their behavior. One convicted teen-age gay-basher told her that the pastor of his church had said, “Homosexuals represent the devil. Satan,” and that the Rev. Jerry Falwell had echoed that charge. Christians opposed to political and social equality for homosexuals nearly always appeal to the moral injunctions of the Bible, claiming that Scripture, is very clear on the matter and citing verses that support their opinion. They accuse others of perverting end distorting texts contrary to their “clear” meaning. They do not, however, necessarily see quite as clear a meaning to biblical passages on economic conduct, the burdens of wealth and the sin of greed. Nine biblical citations are customarily invoked as relating to homosexuality. Four (Deuteronomy 23:17, 1 Kings 14:24, I Kings 22:46 and II Kings 23:7) simply forbid prostitution by men and women. Two others (Leviticus 18:19-23 and Leviticus 20:10-16) are part of what biblical scholars call the Holiness Code. The code explicitly bans homosexual acts. But it also prohibits eating raw meat, planting two different kinds of seed in the same field and wearing garments with two different kinds of yarn. Tattoos, adultery and sexual intercourse during a woman’s menstrual period are similarly outlawed. There is no mention of homosexuality in the four Gospels of the New Testament. The moral teachings of Jesus are not concerned with the subject. Three references from St. Paul are frequently cited (Romans 1:26-2:1, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 and I Timothy 1:10). But St. Paul was concerned with homosexuality only because in Greco-Roman culture it represented a secular sensuality that was contrary to his Jewish- Christian spiritual idealism. He was against lust and sensuality in anyone, including heterosexuals. To say that homosexuality is bad because homosexuals are tempted to do morally doubtful things is to say that heterosexuality is bad because heterosexuals are likewise tempted. For St. Paul, anyone who puts his or her interest ahead of God’s is condemned, a verdict that falls equally upon everyone.
And lest we forget Sodom and Gomorrah, recall that the story is not about sexual perversion and homosexual practice. It is about inhospitality, according to Luke 10:10-13, and failure to care for the poor, according to Ezekiel 16:19·50: “Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fullness of bread and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.” To suggest that Sodom and Gomorrah is about homosexual sex is an analysts of about as much worth as suggesting that the story of Jonah and the whale is a treatise on fishing. Part of the problem is a question of interpretation. Fundamentalists and literalists, the storm troopers of the religious right, are terrified that Scripture, wrongly interpreted, may separate them from their values. That fear stems from their own recognition that their “values” are not derived from Scripture, as they publicly claim. Indeed, it is through the lens of their own prejudices and personal values that they “read” Scripture and cloak their own views in its authority. We all interpret Scripture: Make no mistake. And no one truly is a literalist, despite the pious temptation. The questions are, By what principle of interpretation do we proceed, and by what means do we reconcile “what it meant then” to what it means now?” These matters are far too important to be left to scholars and seminarians alone. Our ability to judge ourselves and others rests on our ability to interpret scripture intelligently. The right use of the Bible, an exercise as old as the church itself, means that we confront our prejudices rather than merely confirm them. For Christians, the principle by which Scripture is read is nothing less than an appreciation of the work and will of God as revealed in that of Jesus. To recover a liberating and inclusive Christ is to be freed from the semantic bondage that makes us curators of a dead culture rather than creatures of a new creation. Religious fundamentalism is dangerous because it cannot accept ambiguity and diversity and is therefore inherently intolerant. Such intolerance, in the name of virtue, is ruthless and uses political power to destroy what it cannot convert. It is dangerous, especially in America, because it is anti-democratic and is suspicious of “the other,” in whatever form that “other” might appear. To maintain itself, fundamentalism must always define “the other” as deviant. But the chief reason that fundamentalism is dangerous is that, at the hands of the Rev. Pat Robertson. the Rev. Jerry Falwell and hundreds of lesser-known but equally worrisome clerics, preachers and pundits, it uses Scripture and the Christian practice to encourage ordinarily good people to act upon their fears rather than their virtues.
Fortunately, those who speak for the religious right do not speak for all American Christians, and the Bible is not theirs alone to interpret. The same Bible that the advocates of slavery used to protect their wicked self-interests is the Bible that inspired slaves to revolt and their liberators to action. The same Bible that the predecessors of Mr. Falwell and Mr. Robertson used to keep white churches white is the source of the inspiration of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. and the social reformation of the 1960’s. The same Bible that anti-feminists use to keep women silent in the churches is the Bible that preaches liberation to captives and says that in Christ there is neither male nor female, slave nor free. And the same Bible that on the basis of an archaic social code of ancient Israel and a tortured reading of Paul is used to condemn all homosexuals and homosexual behavior includes metaphors of redemption, renewal, inclusion and love – principles that invite homosexuals to accept their freedom and responsibility in Christ and demands that their fellow Christians accept them as well. The political piety of the fundamentalist religious right must not be exercised at the expense of our precious freedoms. And in this summer of our discontent, one of the most precious freedoms for which we must all fight is freedom from this last prejudice.
Peter J. Gomes Professor of Christian Morals, Harvard University;Minister, American Baptist Church
Edsel
Dear 1EqualityUSA
Eloquently written, but full of smoke and mirrors about the true Christian position.
Do read the new testament yourself, starting with the gospels.
Jesus came to offer eternal life. He taught about love and forgiveness, ‘love one another as yourselves, ‘love your enemies’. Tough ask for anyone don’t you think?
He also taught about sin. He didn’t say one sin was worse than another, he simply asked us to believe and ask God to forgive our sins. When we specifically look at sexual sins, Jesus talk about only one path of sex without sin and that is in marriage, between a man and a woman. All else is sin. Sex outside of marriage, man to man sex, sex with your mother, father, sister, animals etc. No one sin any worse than the other. The new testament is crystal clear about this position.
The choice is ours. believe or don’t believe, but at the end of the day we all have to draw a line in the sand about what we believe to be right or wrong. Penny Wong, leading Australian lesbian activist in a debate recently, drew a line in the sand with polyamourous relationships, saying she wouldn’t support such relationships, but she would support homosexual marriage.
Jesus drew the line in the sand in a different place to Penny Wong.
Tom Nelissen
He’s so out of touch… What’s his beef with us gays anyway? There are real serious world problems he could be worrying/praying about, if he were a true Christian. I don’t even think or talk about gay people or gay actions as much as this idiot! Burn in hell you stupid old man!
Brian Richards
Love what you guys are saying this sonar bitch just needs to shut the hell up and leave people alone and let them live their lives nobody’s done anything wrong he needs to talk about all his two face that are killing around the world that are supposed to be such good Christians beheadings killing for no reason
1EqualityUSA
Edsel,
Christ specifically spoke against divorce, yet your fellow evangelists seem only to cloak their anti-gay bigotry in the authority of the Bible, turning a blind eye to divorce. They must think that Jesus, by staying so silent our community for three decades, dropped the ball somehow, so they’ve appointed themselves to be vehement pursuers of gays in His absence. I tell you truly, we are born this way.
When Christ does return, I would rather be holding the hand of a woman than holding a sign stating whom God hates.
Our marriage is rock solid. Most of the discussions of lust and adulterous liaisons are intended for both orientations. I believe that Christ would prefer that we don’t lie about ourselves. I read the Bible and disagree with your interpretation. You are making things up. Christ did not mention one word, not one word on this subject the entire 33 years He graced our planet. Do not bring polygamy into this discussion either, nor abortion. Those are different circumstances. Our union is not sinful. We love each other on a spiritual level that surpasses mere molecules. It is our spirit that has been joined. For you to focus only on atoms and molecules (flesh) indicates that you are still tangled in this world and in these bodies. Our union is a spiritual power house. You can tell what kind of spiritual soil one’s roots rest in by the fruit that they bear. If one is kind, merciful, able to unconditionally love your brothers and sisters, all the better. I’m so tired I’m dropping off to sleep. I must fade out. Good night.
Edsel
@1EqualityUSA: 1EqualityUSA My heart goes out to you, I understand the love you have for your partner. Remember the woman at the well? Jesus told her to ‘go and sin no more’. That is the point for all of us. As a Christian, I have sinned. I still sin, but I know that Jesus has died for my sins and that as a believer, I am saved by His grace. So how do we know we have sinned? For one we have our conscience, that little nagging voice on our shoulder, when we clearly know we have sinned. Sometimes we sin and somehow justify that sin to ourselves, perhaps even with selective Bible verses? Take for example the “prosperity gospel’ that some pentecostal churches teach. For example if you take Luke 6:38 in isolation, you might think some penetcostal teaching of ,’the more you give, the more you get,’ is valid.
“Give, and it will be given to you. They will pour into your lap a good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over. For by your standard of measure it will be measured to you in return.” However, once you read all the gospels, Paul’s teaching and the other NT books, you can see that the Christian message is quite the contrary. ie, No guarantee of monetary wealth, suffering and poverty may even be a blessing, yet our needs will be taken care of.
Much the same with say sexual sin. You only have to read Romans and 1 Corinthians to know what God is saying to all Christians. Not to believe is to call Paul either a liar or a deceiver. Yet here was a man who once persecuted and plotted to kill Christians! Have you ever known anyone to turn their life around like Paul?
Anyway, listen or don’t listen, but know that all this is said in brotherly love.
1EqualityUSA
I’m awake and ready to do today what I did yesterday, but know before making snide comments about “falling asleep” that I did more to help people in that 13 hour window of time (yesterday) than you have likely done in a month. Have a good day, Edsel.
Maude
@Tom Nelissen:
Get it straight before you comment.
Robertson isn’t thinking ‘homosexual’ 24/7.
Someone asked him a question about what the person should do about a friend who is a homosexual, and Robertson answered the question.
No surprise to anyone that he answered as he did.
That’s who he is, and that’s who is audience is,
IMO, he is as wrong, as wrong can possibly be wrong.
He has the longest running ‘show’ in the history of all of television, and his audience ‘begets, and begets, and begets’ more of the same again, and again, and again.
1EqualityUSA
Edsel, I believe you feel this with all of your heart. I will not lie about myself to make you or anyone else feel at ease, as this would be an artificial relationship. God loves me as I am, I was created and understand that we are to be judged for every word that leaves our mouths, as these words come from our hearts. My spouse chastised me fairly severely for the last post, saying that it was unpleasant and bragging about the work we do. I understand that it is God’s grace that allows me to do what I do and were it not for the supplementation given to me, I would be a disaster. Paul is a bit earth-bound at times and we are given discernment. I view the Bible as an incomplete story, a three dimensional structure, as a basket that is missing part of its weave, whole books have been omitted, human tinkering throughout the ages have altered it, and translation from Greek and Hebrew to English has tinted it. Jesus is my Lord and Savior. The woman at the well was told that she would have a spiritual spring inside of her, whereby, she would never thirst again. If Christ was righteous enough to share His time with a Samaritan, would not this be an example to Pat Robertson to stop the hate filled rhetoric towards us? Jews would have nothing to do with Samaritans, let alone, transforming her heart in such a way that when she returned to her village, people were so moved by her healing that they flocked out to the well to see who this “teacher” was. Christ always did His best work when He was exhausted. Clearly, this woman was so disliked, that she was forced to get her water in the heat of the day, rather than in the morning, when the others did the task in the cooler hours. This outcast was transformed. How dare any pastor close the door on anyone. Usurping. I would rather be me on the last day.
Edsel
Hey, you’re right about hate. Jesus even taught about hate as a sin, perhaps comparable to murder; see Mathew 5; 21“You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ 22But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment;”
We’ll have to agree to disagree about the Bible being tinkered with. My research has shown that the Bible is the most authenticated historical document ever, faithfully translated from the year dot. Sure, minor translation disputes exist in terms of some minor debatable Greek or Hebrew translations, but the essential message has remained unchanged. I am in awe at how the OT meshes in the with New, how over 300 prophecies in the OT point toward Jesus, how the apostles (including Paul) after the resurrection risked their lives every day to spread the word! I can only urge you to read the New Testament prayerfully and ask for God’s guidance in all things.
I’m curious, what work do you do?
PS I wouldn’t worry about hate filled rantings from anyone. Esp anyone claiming to be a Christian.
youarekiddingme
@Edsel: You right-wing religious nut case! What are you doing on a queer web site in the first place? Do you have repressed homosexual tendendencies that you need to express and feel this is a safe atmosphere to do so?
All your religious, Hate-Filled, bible thumping co-horts ever do is try to repress those of us who try to live our lives peacefully. We want nothing more than the same rights as every other human being. You tell us how “sinful” we are, yet you people are the most disgusting people on the face of the planet. Your hate permeats the very fiber of those who proclaim to be christians yet walk around and judge and condemn others. You know damn well that YOU have no place judging me or any other human being on this planet. Your (christians) sins are far more damnable than most gay men have.
1. You judge
2. You don’t hold your sabbath holy
3. You use your god’s name in vein
4. You covet your neighbor’s wife
5. You kill
6. You divorce
7. Greed
8. Lust
9. Gluttony
10. Sloth
11. Wrath
12. Envy
13. Pride
These are just a few that come from your bible (which I don’t believe in). Some of those in the list however I think are pretty disgusting but are practiced every day by christians. Your christians who go to church (seldom) or on the occasional Sunday are the most repulsive I have met (and the most abundant christians by the way). During the week these same christians raise hell and get drunk (beat their wives and kids) and talk shit about the fags. These same christians then want to claim “religious freedom” when they deny service to the queers!
Then there are the catholic priests raping the boys while the bishops and the pope are covering it up! There’s some christianity for you!!
So do us all a favor here and do the “christian” thing: “Love thy neighbor & judge not, less ye be judged.” If that doesn’t work, at least on this queer website…PUT A SOCK IN IT, WE DON’T WANT TO HEAR YOUR ANTI-GAY, ANTI-GAY MARRIAGE CRAP! (Btw, you have been flagged…good night).
So give it a break won’t you?
Edsel
HI ‘youarekiddingme’
Out of interest, did you know how many homosexual lobbyists are on Christian sites spreading anger and hatred? What amazes me is how much anger, hatred and vitriol come through these Queerty postings. I am intrigued, surprised and saddened.
1EqualityUSA
Edsel, Rape was comparable to murder. Christ saw no difference between the two. Lose the molecules, Edsel. It’s time to move beyond the flesh and interpret the Bible in light of the spirit. It has always been about the spirit, not the vessel.
youarekiddingme
@Edsel:
Funny you talk about “the most authenticated historical document ever…”. Most of the bible was written in Ancient Aramaic. Don’t know anyone who can DIRECTLY translate Ancient Aramaic…
Nothing in the bible can be proven…Nothing. Everything is faith. Everything. Was the ark real. 2 of every species? Flies, fleas, tics, spiders, crabs, roaches–4,000 species alone! You know how fast they reproduce?…The whole damn ark would have been over full with roaches in 40 days! What about the predators eating the prey? What about the 40 days and nights of just the excrement from all those species? I know, god provided for all of that…bullshit!
I thought as a christian the new testament replaced the new testament? If it didn’t…uh oh…more problems for christians…Here’s a list of things from your bible (old testament) that most of you christians conveniently don’t follow:
“So I thought it’d be a good time to find a bunch of stuff that the Bible bans… stuff that’s a lot LESS convenient. Don’t worry, though… just because I’m pointing it out, that doesn’t mean you now have to follow it. It’s a lot easier to keep discriminating against gay people for no particular reason than to stop eating bacon, after all.
Here are 11 things that are technically banned by the Bible. (All quotes are translations from the New American Standard Bible, but, because I’m actually trying to maintain serious journalistic integrity here, I cross-referenced several other translations to make sure I wasn’t missing the point.)
Round haircuts. See you in Hell, Beatles… and/or kids with bowl cuts, surfer cuts or (my favorite) butt cuts. Leviticus 19:27 reads “You shall not round off the side-growth of your heads nor harm the edges of your beard.”
Football. At least, the pure version of football, where you play with a pigskin. The modern synthetic footballs are ugly and slippery anyways. Leviticus 11:8, which is discussing pigs, reads “You shall not eat of their flesh nor touch their carcasses; they are unclean to you.”
And you’re doubly breaking that if you wake up, eat some sausage then go throw around the football. Or go to the county fair and enter a greased pig catching contest.
Fortune telling. Before you call a 900 number (do people still call 900 numbers, by the way?), read your horoscope or crack open a fortune cookie, realize you’re in huge trouble if you do.
Leviticus 19:31 reads “Do not turn to mediums or spiritists; do not seek them out to be defiled by them. I am the Lord your God.” The penalty for that? Check Leviticus 20:6: “As for the person who turns to mediums and to spiritists, to play the harlot after them, I will also set My face against that person and will cut him off from among his people.”
Seems like a lifetime of exile is a pretty harsh penalty for talking to Zoltar.
Pulling out. The Bible doesn’t get too much into birth control… it’s clearly pro-populating but, back when it was written, no one really anticipated the condom or the sponge, so those don’t get specific bans.
But… pulling out does. One of the most famous sexual-oriented Bible verses… the one that’s used as anti-masturbation rhetoric… is actually anti-pulling out.
It’s Genesis 38:9-10: “Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brother’s wife, he wasted his seed on the ground in order not to give offspring to his brother. But what he did was displeasing in the sight of the Lord; so He took his life also.”
Yep — pull out and get smote. That’s harsh.
Banned.
Tattoos. No tattoos. Leviticus 19:28 reads, “You shall not make any cuts in your body for the dead nor make any tattoo marks on yourselves: I am the Lord.”
Not even a little butterfly on your ankle. Or Thug Life across your abdomen. Or even, fittingly enough, a cross.
Polyester, or any other fabric blends. The Bible doesn’t want you to wear polyester. Not just because it looks cheap. It’s sinfully unnatural.
Leviticus 19:19 reads, “You are to keep My statutes. You shall not breed together two kinds of your cattle; you shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor wear a garment upon you of two kinds of material mixed together.”
Check the tag on your shirt right now. Didn’t realize you were mid-sin at this exact second, did you? (Unless you checked the tag by rolling off your neighbor’s wife while you two were having anal sex in the middle of robbing a blind guy. Then your Lycra-spandex blend is really the least of your problems.)
Divorce. The Bible is very clear on this one: No divorcing. You can’t do it. Because when you marry someone, according to Mark 10:8, you “are no longer two, but one flesh.” And, Mark 10:9 reads, “What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.”
Mark gets even more hardcore about it a few verses later, in Mark 10:11-12, “And He said to them, ‘Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her; and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery.'”
Letting people without testicles into church. Whether you’ve been castrated or lost one or two balls to cancer isn’t important. The Bible doesn’t get that specific. It just says you can’t pray.
Deuteronomy 23:1 reads (this is the God’s Word translation, which spells it out better), “A man whose testicles are crushed or whose penis is cut off may never join the assembly of the Lord.”
Oh, and the next verse says that if you’re a bastard, the child of a bastard… or even have a great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandchild of a bastard, you can’t come to church or synagogue either. Deuteronomy 23:2 reads, “No one of illegitimate birth shall enter the assembly of the Lord; none of his descendants, even to the tenth generation, shall enter the assembly of the Lord.”
Wearing gold. 1 Timothy 2:9 doesn’t like your gold necklace at all. Or your pearl necklace. Or any clothes you’re wearing that you didn’t get from Forever 21, Old Navy or H&M.
“Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments.”
Lobster, shrimp and clam chowder: All banned.
Shellfish. Leviticus 11:10 reads, “But whatever is in the seas and in the rivers that does not have fins and scales among all the teeming life of the water, and among all the living creatures that are in the water, they are detestable things to you.” And shellfish is right in that wheelhouse.
Leviticus 11 bans a TON of animals from being eaten (it’s THE basis for Kosher law); beyond shellfish and pig, it also says you can’t eat camel, rock badger, rabbit, eagle, vulture, buzzard, falcon, raven, crow, ostrich, owl, seagull, hawk, pelican, stork, heron, bat, winged insects that walk on four legs unless they have joints to jump with like grasshoppers (?), bear, mole, mouse, lizard, gecko, crocodile, chameleon and snail.
Sorry if that totally ruins your plans to go to a rock badger eat-off this weekend.
Your wife defending your life in a fight by grabbing your attacker’s genitals. No joke. Deuteronomy actually devotes two verses to this exact scenario: Deuteronomy 25:11-12.
“If two men, a man and his countryman, are struggling together, and the wife of one comes near to deliver her husband from the hand of the one who is striking him, and puts out her hand and seizes his genitals, then you shall cut off her hand; you shall not show pity.”
That’s impossible to misinterpret. Ladies, if your husband is getting mugged, make sure to kick the mugger in the pills. Do not do the grip and squeeze (no matter what “Miss Congeniality” might advise). Or your hand needs to be cut off.
As a final note, I know that nine of these 11 cite the Old Testament, which Christianity doesn’t necessarily adhere to as law.”
**From Sam Greenspan
All of your stories in the bible are the same way. All based on belief. That’s fine. Have your belief. Don’t try to tell everyone else that it’s the most authenticated historical document ever….it’s the biggest crock ever! Stories told over, and over and over and over until they were finally written down in some convoluted form.
youarekiddingme
@youarekiddingme: I meant, new testament replaced old testament…
youarekiddingme
@Edsel:
Lunatic,
Funny, we’re not on your right-wing religious website now are we? We’re not spreading anger and hatred on YOUR WEBSITES are we? YOU are HERE! Judging US!
LEAVE US ALONE!! Maybe the reason we (the minority, the persecuted) have anger is because of the billion christians in the world who would rather see us DEAD!
So stick your vitriol up your ass! I think we have good reason to be upset with you sticking your nose into this website, refusing us service, treating us like second class citizens and treating the US Constitution as a joke!