Gay Mormon group Affirmation extended an invitation to new Ladder-Day Saints president Thomas S. Monson this week. They write:
Although there are many areas of hurt and disagreement that have separated us, there are many more areas on which we can find agreement, and in doing so, become a blessing in the lives of many of the Saints, both straight and gay.
Assistant executive director David W. Melson says that in the wake of former President Gordon B. Hinkley’s death this month, “it seemed like the appropriate time”.
W wonder if Monson’s ready for a change of pace. The new President did, after all, have a significant role to play in the Values Institute, an “unofficial” LDS group aimed at demonizing – and attempting to cure – the gays. And their unholy crusade left a few bodies in its wake.
From a 2007 speech by Affirmation member Connell O’Donovan:
…At Brigham Young University in 1976, Dr. D. Eugene Thorne, head of BYU’s Psychology Department, oversaw Ph.D. student Max Ford McBride in his PhD dissertation that involved experiments on Gay men using Gay and Straight pornography with electric-shock therapy. They started out with 16 Gay male BYU students and staff, but two committed suicide during the experiment, so the study only ended up with 14 subjects.
Those suicides became fuel for the formation of Affirmation. Are they burning a whole in Monson’s conscience? Probably not.
How about we take this to the next level?
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Current LDS leader Dallin H. Oaks, whose one of the church’s policy-making Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, wrote a 1979 letter to Monson offering an unabashed – and just as shameful – summation at the Values Institute’s work.
The letter goes on to explain how lead research Bergin had come under public fire – specificially whether or not he could remain objective – so Oaks offered Monson some alternatives, including changing authorships and discontinuing church funding.
Monson’s work in the church largely reflected that of Hinkley, who was no great gay lover, and many predict the new president will stand by Hinkley’s pious stagnation. Said Professor Robert Millet of Brigham Young University, “He has been a seat mate with Gordon B. Hinckley for a long time. And I would not expect a radical departure from the course the church has taken.”
Even Monson himself admitted his ascendancy will bring no big changes for the Ladder-Day Saints: “We will continue the commitment of those who have gone before us in teaching the gospel and promoting cooperation of people throughout the world.” He does, however, indicate a willingness to open the doors to outside perspectives:
I believe in an open book and access to the media… I think we have responsibility to be active in the communities where we live, to work cooperatively with other churches other organizations.
We shall see if Monson stays true to his “good” word. Start placing your bets!
Bitch Republic
Things won’t change under Monson’s leadership. And they definitely, absolutely will not change as long as Boyd K. Packer is the president of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. Packer is the biggest homophobe in the Mormon church. He’s the one who advocated a missionary hitting his missionary companion if he made a gay pass at him. Packer is very feisty and has always exerted his will/opinion on the quorum even when he was a junior apostle and other junior apostles would normally defer to the elder apostles. (This information comes from D. Michael Quinn’s books “The Mormon Hierarchy” where he quotes from various apostles’ own journals.)
Grow Up
Doctrine does not change. Homosexuality will NEVER be tolerated within the church. There isn’t any reason why it should. It goes against every principle we hold dear. The transition from one prophet to the next does little to change the progression of the church. Such matters are handled by an unchanging God. Concessions will not be made to appease a group.
Tonic
Grow up? The Mormon church has grown up itself to *some degree* in other matters. For instance they finally gave up polygamy as a way of life despite their prophet Joseph Smith’s having had 34 wives, and, not to far back (in 1978 – gasp!) the church FINALLY started allowing blacks to the priesthood (see: http://www.exmormon.org/blacks1.htm ). Thus, those who care about such matters, can only hope that the church will likewise one day see *new light* in regards to gays.
Charley
One hypothetical scenario. If the gay group had posession of the sacred Mormon “gold tablets”, they might be accepted. Joseph Smith, claimed in the late 1820s that an angel had directed him to ancient golden plates, hidden in a stone box buried in a hill, and that he had translated the sacred record (book of Mormon) with the power of God.
Charley
Mormons are gullible about the supernatural, they will believe anything, even gays given gold tablets by angels.
chandler in lasvegas
And would you stop using the term President. The Mormons, who like the Scieno’s always obstruct the facts of their beliefs. This guy is their current PROPHET who is capable of direct communication with “Heavenly Father”. He is the Revelator who gives forth Revelations. Like Black people, who are Satan spawn, are AOK once they start tithing.
He is like Mr. Big in the Rocky and Bullwinkle cartoons.
emb
Charley: Right, but you don’t go far enough. Mormons aren’t alone in being gullibly taken in by preposterous articles of faith. We could start the list with people popping back from the dead; virgin mothers hurtling bodily up into the sky; crackers and wine that magically transform into flesh and blood; heavenly virgins waiting to be deflowered by martyrs…all religions are goofy at their core, and all provide a distraction for people and a source of wealth and power for a few. The CoJoCoLDS is just newer, not weirder, than any other religion.
hells kitchen guy
I love Mormons like “Grow Up,” who won’t acknowledge that their leaders “magically” found “tablets” telling them to disallow polygamy when Utah wanted to become a state or the “divine guidance” that told them to allow black priests at the tail end of the Civil Rights struggle. He can probably thank his (it MUST be a he) narrow thinking for helping sink Romney’s candidacy – for better or worse, people think practicing Mormons are idiots because of statements like this.
M Shane Walsh
To me, what I knew about Mormon belief was too weird to be threatening. They are very secretive about a lot of what they do. They were chased around the countyry before they setled in Salt Lake City. It’s kind of interesting to see Joseph Smith’s house with a separete little dormer for each of all his wives rooms.
I know with ceratinty that the church leaders have taken vastly different stands relative to homosexuality. They have their own separate “bible”, which is a whole complicated mythology of sorts. They are very family oriented and my feeling from the ones I’ve talked to , is that they are generally seldom much more extreme than an Anglican. Some of them still take more than one wife, illicitly. They are just on a different planet and are very unlike any thing that we think of as being christian. They don’t seem to be as angry and toilet bowl nasty as the pentacostals.
todd
They turned their back on polygamy, they can turn their back on homophobia too.
M Shane Walsh
p.s. Given the opportunity I would gladly flush the baptists etc.
Rikard
Watch out M Shane, don’t start talking about other planets! My people have much weirder ideas than the superficial christian, or the revivalist origins, or even the polygamy. I’m sure L Ron Hubbard got some of his kooky sci-fi-religio ideas from the mormons. It all helped me grow up to be an atheist.
M Shane Walsh
There are a number of teological complexities with nonhegimonious sexality. E.g. The Mormon idea of the afterlife, among other interesting notions, is that each guy gets to have his own little planet to sit on when he dies along with his family. What happens to a gay guy then. Is he left sittiing there all by himself, or if there’sa a partnership is one person the man(with the planet )and the other his “little woman”? What if they are both are “the gal” and end up floating in outer space?
Eminent Victorian
It’s “Latter-Day Saints,” just F.Y.I.
C.S.
It’s not surprising that Mormon leaders will suddenly have “revelations” that conveniently allow them to change church doctrine and make themselves more relevant…after all, allegations that the Book of Mormon is actually a plagiarised version of a novel by Solomon Spaulding have been going around for more than 100 years. I doubt they’ll have a revelation to be tolerant of gays anytime soon, though.
M Shane
Ricard:
Probably, if anyone thought that I was supposed to take all that rigamarol seriously, I’d become an athiest too Catholicism did me in. From a distance the whole thing is really so spacey I find it very imaginative and funny. One of my brothers’ friends down in Salt Lake claims that he doesn’t have to be gay as long as he’s a top. And oh yes, I understand that incest is kind of a family activity.
M Shane
Gosh, it just occured to me with the guy who thinks hes not gay because he’s a top: what does his partner think he must be besides a bottom? The bytch?
Bitch Republic
Chandler, Monson’s official title is “President” of the church. He is regarded as their prophet also, but it his official title is president.
Mr. “Grow Up,” you need to grow up. Eventually the church will accept homosexuality when it becomes socially unacceptable not to… just like they magically gave black people the priesthood in 1978 after lots of groups were protesting the church and the IRS was threatening to revoke their tax exempt status.
Nikko
Anti-gay or not, Mormonism is pure cult-mythmaking, so I don’t need their approval. Why would I? They need to get rid of all that Mormon junk and come back to earth.
Charley
They turned their back on polygamy because it was made illegal by the Federal Government. They were forced to change. Most of these cults would still be stoning us to death if it wasn’t illegal. Scripture in religious holy books is the root of evil.
Bitch Republic
M Shane, the wacky Mormon types who are tops and don’t think they are gay don’t have regular partners. They hook up in parks and bathrooms with random guys. There is a shopping mall across the street from the Mormon church office bldg and friends who worked in the mall told me that the restroom nearest the Mormon HQ had to be closed down because too many Mormon office workers were engaging in sex acts with each other in that bathroom on their lunch hour.
M Shane
I imagine.That’s really funny about the Mormon workers. But no doubt. There is something about the obedient family structure with big daddy in charge that might promote a gay propensity. along with all that nuttyness. Probably easy to grow up thinking you’re Alice in Wonderland. I also always wonder about all of those mormon boys who go out on their mandatory two year bike missions.
John
There’s a reason why professional organizations are loathed to publish anything coming out of BYU (no pun intended). Indeed, I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a professor from BYU presenting research at any of the prestigious psychological or medical conferences.
Bitch Republic
BYU doesn’t have a medical school and they barely have a psychology dept.
I served a Mormon mission in Norway and I loved it (mostly Norway, not the mission), but I don’t think serving a mission with a “companion” around 24/7 makes you gay.
M Shane
Oh, don’t mistake my sillyness for real beliefs. When I see them up here in Minnesoa they are really kind of sweet and polite, a real break from the attacks of the evagelistic variety.
Charley
Donnie and Marie sure have hung in there..But showbiz and celebrity is about putting on a phony face, just like religion. Not exactly a reality show.
John
You guys are all pretty dang ignorant. Why don’t you not get your information from people who have been kicked out of the church, or even never been members? Thats like going to ask a criminal how good the legal system is. Thats just stupid. Learn a little from the church itself before you state “facts.”
And go check out Leviticus 18:22 if you dont believe that homosexuality has ALWAYS and will ALWAYS be wrong. It will NEVER change
Nikko
Hey John, speaking of ignorance, yes, lev.18:22 is in there and it’s wrong like the bible is wrong on many other verses/issues. Now go back to your stupid religious followers before I feed you to the lions.
Matt
I say this as someone who is gay who grew up in the mormon faith, the church’s stance on homosexuality will never change. No matter how many changes there are in the church’s leadership. The church may tone down some of its official feelings towards gay people, but there won’t be any reconciliation on the scale that people hope for.
M Shane
Matt: I really wasn’t acquainted with any Mormons at all until visiting my brother in Idaho. One of the difficult aspects of the matter with me is that Mormons seem to be very very secretive about their beliefs. The peole I’ve met have been very pleasant on the surface. It’s not at all had for me to find distaste with these tarantulas denying people jobs(me) and converting and allthe nasty things they do. Mormons don’t have that ungly exterior that I’ve seen, and it’s hard for me to be judgemental given that.
Matt
The mormon chruch can be quite secretive. There were some aspects, doctrines and ceremonies that aren’t explained until you need to know. Most members of the church are very friendly and welcoming until the point in which something infringes on their right and ability to worship. But there are members of the church who can be quite offensive and very hypocritical. All I meant by what I said earlier is that the church will still believe, practice and preach doctrine the same. I mean to say is that no one should brace themselves for any great change in the way the church handles gay people.
M Shane
I’m by no means a bible scholar, but I ran across a referance to the Book of Samuel 2 from the old testament where David describes his friendship with Jonathan as “exceedingly beautiful and amiable to me above the love of women”. I’ll keep to that.
Dane
The issue isn’t about homosexuals. The issue is about practicing homosexuals. I’ve known a few LDS men that have chosen to live a celibate life because they are attracted to men. They enjoy all the blessings that I do in the church. People who act on homosexual urges are treated the same way as those who act on heterosexual urges outside of marriage.
kittywaymo
Amen, Dane….finally a voice of reason amongst so many voices of unintelligible utterings.
Dane, (see above please) is correct. I have many, many friends also who choose to follow the commandments and stay morally clean (homosexually speaking and heterosexually speaking) because they know that to live the opposite DOES NOT bring happiness as Satan’ promises, nor TRUE LOVE, lasting success, peace etc etc.. it
s like the alcoholic or drug addict that says…”BUt I WILL be different than the stats.. you’ll see… I CAN be happy and.. (fill in the blank) take that drink, have mess around with that guy (if your gay) or girl, (if your straight) without any fallout.”
It simply is not true. Satan devised these lies, because if he told you the truth, that homosexual and heterosexual russian roulette, (or even trying it once with someone who’s slept with many people etc) can cause disease, despair and death. (just talk to some of my friends, and they’ll tell you the big lie and the pain they’ve suffered living it in the past)
True peace and happiness comes from following God’s plan for ourselves, not OUR plan for ourselves. also.. real joy comes from sacrificing our will for God’s commandments and we then are truly free beings.
thats my 2 shekals..
love kittywaymo