What does it mean to “talk like a man”?

Think about that.

Chris is obviously so much smarter; i hope he doesn’t expect an intelligent debate from this “dude.” John’s counterpoint is literally “you’re stupid” and “you’re retarded.” touché, douche. (well, okay, maybe those highlights weren’t the best choice… but John’s ear gages are equally heinous. wait, am i being stereotypical again? dern my limp wrists!)

but do the most masculine guys really feel discriminated against? do they require propping up? or does society tell them they’re better every day?

His apology was sincere and his mom is a doll.

I am sick of this entire group of gay guys who want to emulate straight guys. They aspire to disown any gay who is feminine. Why?

Here’s the deal: Some less-effeminate gay men love to tell their straight friends that they, the less-effeminate gay men, are nothing like their more-effeminate gay male counterparts. These less-effeminate gay men often say things like “being gay is just one small part of who I am” and try to marginalize more-effeminate gay men by disparaging the way the more-effeminate gay men talk, walk, and dress.

This is because these particular less-effeminate are homophobic. And we should feel bad for them because they hate themselves. And we should be angry with them, because they hate us too.

In some ways, but of course not in every way, this phenomenon is comparable to the ways in which our culture perceives and represents lighter dark-skinned people and darker dark-skinned people. Like in “Once On This Island.” Or, like, in our lives, right now. See: all those articles about how Michelle Obama is dark-skinned, and Barack Obama is not as dark-skinned, and why this is significant.

So, here’s what I, a more-effeminate gay man, has to say to all of you less-effeminate gay men who wanna turn me into the Other: You can (maybe) cover and I cannot, and I hope that gets you through the night.

Or, if you still can’t sleep, we could just have sex, yes? That helps, sometimes. Call me.

That’ll do, pig. That’ll do.

Don’t we all, straight and gay, have SOME degree of internalized homophobia? Almost impossible to lose it completely, the point is to learn to recognize it when it pops up and get beyond it. I remember coming out… it was hard! John’s message, while not perfect, is still helpful to those young kids trying to find that courage.

Yes you can be gay and still act manly. And then eventually you’ll discover it’s OK to do drag. It’s a lot of fun but a lot of work! Don’t get too messy! Ok, DO get a little messy, but then, clean up your act. And then you’ll realize that manliness and leather and tatts and piercings and even “regular guys” are just another kind of drag. And then you’ll relax and just be yourself and enjoy the show.

Finally, it’s spelled B-R-I-T-N-E-Y. She is what she is, and if you don’t love her, it’s only because you haven’t been paying attention to the whole picture, warts and all. I didn’t like her either but then I watched some behind-the-scenes stuff and read some interviews and guess what now I am a fan and I am OK with that!

i know, huh!
WOW is right.
how you gonna marry somebody if you don’t love yourself??
can i get a amen up in here?

I’m not suggesting that I knew better when I was that age. I had a friend who asked me, back then, if I had a choice, who would I choose between a “hot looking man with an feminine voice” vs. “an average ‘mo, with a masculine voice.” I chose the latter, he chose the former. Yet in real life, he ended up with the latter, and I found an amazing love through the former.

Gosh, we just love to sit back, judge a bit, and then apply lables to everything. I was a very accomplished athelete, who (I am told) is very masculine in behavior and appearance. My husband never participated in sports, and he is described as being a bit more feminine in behavior. Yet, I love design, fashion, decorating, Merchant Ivory films, gardening, reading, music and art. My husband loves watching football, scales a wall like nobody’s business, could care less about music, has no fashion sense, and art for him is a Thomas Kincade painting. What drew us together and has kept us deeply in love these many years is a shared value system.

So, what I would say is that if you are gay? You can be just about anything you want, and as long as you are a kind and honorable human being, I am going to love you just the way you are. You can talk effemintely, and I’m gonna love you (maybe all the more for all the b.s. you put up with on a daily basis). If you choose to surround yourself with 15 women, God Bless ya for having friends. You can be miserable at sports, and I’ll feel glad to sit next to you in a theatre showing a chick flick.

Your mannerisms and interests are not so important in this life, as what your value and belief systems are. Are you a human being who is kind, open hearted, caring, and honorable? Then walk out there in the world with pride and your chin up–and dismiss the assholes who would dismiss for being exactly as you are!

i think both have their own notion and opinion on the subject, and like don’t we all…. and both of them are basically arguing bout nothing really. bottom line, both are saying that it’s ok to be who you want to be, whoever you are, just that John thinks it’s ok to be more masculine and Chris thinks it’s ok to be more feminine. period.

i guess i side with John, maybe cause i can relate a little more…

* There are next to zero masculine openly gay men on TV or film in the US. Almost all the representations of gay men are effeminate.
* I’m tired of effeminate gay men that shoot down masculine gay men because they are jealous and want all gay men to be effeminate and miserable like them. I know you have a porn stache that consists entirely of masculine men and you prefer them also to be heterosexual because you think that all gay men are effeminate and you don’t like it.
* Gay men desire masculine men.
* Just because you like men doesn’t mean you are like a girl. Stop imposing heterosexual conventions on gay people. We are not inverts of heterosexuals. Got it.
* Gay men have higher levels of free testosterone than heterosexual males. Free testosterone is what gives men their gender specific traits like a deep voice, broad shoulders, body hair, musculature etc.
* Gay men on average have bigger dicks than heterosexual males.
http://www.salon.com/health/se.....1/04/size/

Keep up the good work, all you flaming ‘mos! I love ya.

oh, and my favorite part:”and so i blocked him.” right, that’s mature.

Get over all these labels because you yourself are a walking stereotype. Who cares!