The truth is that there is absolutely no reason, outside of their slavish loyalty to big labor, that any gay organization continues to honor this boycott. Mr. Manchester apologized and has generously offered to make financial amends with the gay community. What more does the gay left want at this point? The bottom line is that we lost the battle over Prop 8, and if we want to win in the future we need to be in the business of making new friends not more enemies.
—Jimmy LaSalvia (pictured, left), executive director of GOProud, explaining why the group hosted a reception for pundit Tammy Bruce (second from right) at the hotel this weekend. GOProud has so far accepted at least $16,000 from Manchester, who’s trying to give away $125,000 to gay groups, the same amount he donated to Prop 8. [via release]
Adds GOProud chairman Christopher Barron (pictured, right):
The gay left chose to stand with the union bosses while GOProud chose to stand up for the gay employees of the Manchester Grand Hyatt. We will not be bullied by the angry intolerant voices of the left and we will not sit idly by while gay workers pay the price for the strong arm tactics of the gay left – tactics that seek to stifle dissent and silence disagreements at any cost, even if the cost is the jobs of countless gays and lesbians.
[image via]
patrick
GOProud members are traitorous shits. I left a lover many years ago after he got involved with the Log Cabin Republicans I was stunned speechless! I just can’t understand gay republicans…..
Fitz
I see both. Gay republicans are bad human beings, whose self-loathing they turn on the world. I don’t like them, and dont want them around me. I wouldn’t support any active GOP Proud people, and probably wouldn’t give them CPR.
But, you have to let people apologize and make amends, otherwise there is no reason to ever change. So as far Machester goes– the man made change, and I want to welcome him, not spit on him.
randy
I did find out that Manchester has apologized and has a standing offer of credits to any gay organization that books in his hotel.
This is a positive development and should be encouraged. I don’t think it serves any gay group to keep punishing people or else they won’t have any incentive to come around to our side.
Given that development, it isn’t necessarily wrong for GOProud to book their convention there. HOWEVER — knowing that emotions are still very raw over Prop 8, they could have done this much better. They should have known that this would create a firestorm and make them look bad.
If they wanted to accept the free credits, they should have first reached out to other gay groups and asked them to join in, explaining that this is a first step in finding allies among our previous enemies and that we should encourage this sort of thing. They could have held the convention elsewhere and just had a reception there (sort of like baby steps to full acceptance).
But above all, they should have issued PRs to the entire gay community BEFORE the convention to explain all this and why they are doing it. This would have put them out front of the situation instead of playing defense.
At this point, all they are doing is whining about the ‘gay leftists’ and posting photos of their leaders saying FU to those who disagree. Very childish.
I still believe they did this to just say FU to the liberals and get a free hotel. IF they were a responsible grown up organization, they could have actually advanced the dialogue among various groups and perhaps actually have taken a few steps towards our goals, which include support for SSM. Instead, because of their ineptness, it has devolved to a mud fest.
Chris
Log Cabin Republicans don’t favor breaking the boycott, only the GOProud quislings.
DR
@randy:
You said: “But above all, they should have issued PRs to the entire gay community BEFORE the convention to explain all this and why they are doing it. This would have put them out front of the situation instead of playing defense.”
Do you really believe that, Randy? Do you really think that the folks calling for protests and calling GOProud “quislings” would really give a pass because GOProud issued a press release explaining its position? As soon as GOProud issues anything, the cries of “self-loathing” and “quisling” start, and that level of irrationality won’t be placated by a simple press release no matter how logical. You even end your post by suggesting this was all a big “F U” to the liberals to get a free hotel.
If you, the person suggesting a press release believes that, how do you think the more vocal and less forgiving ones would react?
randy
DR: You aren’t going to please everyone, especially in the gay community. If you want credibility, you have to start acting credible. If you don’t, then you won’t ever make any progress.
If you and GOProud truly believe it is a hopeless battle, then you all should just give up right now and not bother. However, if you don’t believe that, then you have your work cut out for you.
I’m not saying it’s easy or that you will get convert everyone. But all the more reason to act with authenticity, sincerity and take the high road at all times, no matter how tempting it is to take the low road. Blaming everyone else for your troubles is always a losing proposition.
randy
DR: “You even end your post by suggesting this was all a big “F U” to the liberals to get a free hotel.
Yes, because he has a raised middle finger in the photo. Unless you believe it’s some sort of secret symbol, most people would interpret that as F U.
If you don’t like his symbolic statement, then your beef is with him, not me.
Dawson
If we continue to fight amongst ourselves, the FRC and all those other hate groups don’t even need to work to defeat us. Stop fighting over an ideology and come together as gays and lesbians to fight for your actual rights.
DR
@randy:
My point is that even in a rational post such as yours, you acknowledge in the same breath a very significant flaw; one with which I kind of agree, although I wonder if this were a liberal Democrat breaking a Republican boycott would folks feel the same or would they applaud the F U attitude? Interesting double standard, methinks…
Anyway. Most of the folks who post in the blogosphere are not as rational as you appear to be when it comes to the whole “gay republican” concept, and I think that this is a no-win situation for GOProud. Had a statement been issued, the group would have been vilified pre-conference instead of post-conference.
It’s not a matter of it being a hopeless battle, it’s a matter of being able to be rational on this topic, and throwing around words like “quisling” and “self-loathing” at the mere thought of a GLBT conservative does tend to make many here apoplectic. The liberal left loves to make itself out to be open-minded and inclusive, and yet here we are…
Alexa
If you read the GOProud web site, not all of their board or Advisory board members are Republicans. And let’s not forget that Dems gave us DADT and DOMA. Dems talk a good game to raise gay money but don’t do much for us and are not able to even undo the bad that they have done to us.
Dems want our money and pay lip service but in total are no better for gays than are Republicans. So why do gays get so upset when a gay is conservative?
Devon
Gay Republicans are traitorous, sellout, uncle Tom pieces of shit, every one of them.
Run their gay cards through a shredder already.
Devon
@Alexa:
Democrats are mostly lethargic, cowardly and utterly worthless when it comes to moving forward on gay rights, but for the most part they’re not actively working against us, supporting rabidly anti-gay legislation and ballot measures, and getting into pissing contests with their primary opponents over who hates us more.
DR
@Devon:
Thanks for proving the point I was making to Randy.
Matt
It’s a pretty simple question. Go and stay there if you like but ask yourself this, ‘will Doug Manchester take the money I am giving him and donate it to people or causes who want to hurt me or take away my rights, at any time in the future? Can I trust him?’
Zach
@Alexa:
Democratic campaign platforms don’t revolve around imprisoning us. Almost every positive piece of gay-rights legislation has been passed because of the Democrats. They move slow, and yes, many in the hierarchy are spineless, but gays would be much worse off without their efforts, incomplete and as halting as they are. You keep pressure on your allies, and you stomp on your enemies every chance you get. And the Republican Party is unequivocally the enemy of every gay person in the United States. It’s been more than 30 years since the LCR was founded, and the GOP has become even more bigoted.
randy
DR: “Most of the folks who post in the blogosphere are not as rational as you appear to be when it comes to the whole “gay republican” concept, and I think that this is a no-win situation for GOProud.”
Perhaps. However, not everyoneis as irrational as you fear. (About 25% of all gays voted for Bush both times). Gay Republicans need to work extra hard to prove their credibility with the general gay community. Is it fair? No. But it also isn’t fair that gays have been vilified for generations either. That began to change when gays came out of the closet and showed people that we are normal like everyone else. As a group we have suceeded, despite the fact that a generation ago, most people hated or feared gays.
“Had a statement been issued, the group would have been vilified pre-conference instead of post-conference.”
Maybe. But some people would have stopped to think that perhaps there is a good point to be made here, and a point that other gay groups are not making. Just because you can’t win over everyone doesn’t mean that you don’t even try to win over a few. Large coalitions are built from small groups.
There are many ways that gay republicans can earn the respect that they deserve, and that means always supporting candidates that promote gay issues and gay equality. So if a Republican runs for office and has all the low tax creds and everything else a good R would like, but is against even civil unions for gays, then no gay group should support him, period. Unfortunately, that hasn’t always been the case.
And it’s unfortunate. I think there are many Republicans in office who would like to be more pro-gay, but there isn’t a credible gay group out there, left or right, that will support them if they start voting for us. The result? Republicans are almost uniformly voting anti-gay. That hurts all of us.
And it’s just that sort of education the gay community needs from GOProud and LC. Instead, they spend their time whining about how terrible the lefty gay groups are. IT’s a shame, and it hurts all of us.
Mr. Enemabag Jones
Of what “big labour”, and “uinion bosses” are these two twits prattling on about? Do they not realize that gay emplyees of the Manchester hotels have been helped for more often by their unions, than by GOProud?
Zach
“Perhaps. However, not everyoneis as irrational as you fear. (About 25% of all gays voted for Bush both times).”
I can’t think of anything more irrational than a gay person voting for George W. Bush. He won a second election partially based on demonizing gay people.
randy
“I can’t think of anything more irrational than a gay person voting for George W. Bush.”
And yet they did. (I certainly wasn’t one of them!). But more importantly, as we’ve learned, we aren’t going to get our rights by just relying on Democrats. They will come ONLY when we have the support of both parties. We need to reach out to Republicans and reward the ones who vote our way and punish the ones who don’t. Right now, we just punish all Republicans. That is rather shortsighted.
the crustybastard
Mr. Manchester apologized and has generously offered to make financial amends with the gay community.
Had they started and stopped there, I might have been able to respect their decision. However, their verbal diarrhea belies their shiat for brains.
randy
It’s interesting that I got two thumbs down (so far) to my suggestion at No. 19. I wonder what I said was so objectionable. — that we still don’t have many basic rights? Sorta hard to disagree with that. That the Democrats haven’t done much of anything for us? Nope — that’s a fact that everyone agrees on.
So it must be my suggestion that we find ways to work with both Republicans and Democrats to secure our rights. I guess instead we should work with Democrats and Martians instead, because, you know, Martians will really help us.
Bill Perdue
GOProud doesn’t have the franchise on betrayal when it comes dealing with bigots like Doug Manchester.
About a year and a half ago Bill Clinton did exactly the same thing. Despite a petition signed by almost 27,000 trade unionists and GLBT folks demanding that he respect the union/LGBT boycott of major Prop 8 funder Doug Manchester and his Manchester Grand Hyatt, Bill Clinton, who gave us DOMA, scabbed for his thirty pieces of silver from the International Franchise Association.
[img]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_4hfeiYr3Zq4/SZkWjOE2xkI/AAAAAAAAFDA/2ybUqmLYhTM/s400/1.jpg[/img]
Here’s how Gore Vidal, seminal gay writer and essayist describes the differences between Democrats and their brothercousins across the aisle, the Republicans:
“There is only one party in the United States, the Property Party…and it has two right wings: Republican and Democrat. Republicans are a bit stupider, more rigid, more doctrinaire in their laissez-faire capitalism than the Democrats, who are cuter, prettier, a bit more corrupt—until recently… and more willing than the Republicans to make small adjustments when the poor, the black, the anti-imperialists get out of hand. But, essentially, there is no difference between the two parties.” Gore Vidal
the crustybastard
So GOProud is celebrating Tammy Bruce? Who the hell is she?
In an odd bit of serendipity, there’s an article about her on Joe.My.God…
“Hate crime legislation accomplishes only one thing — the notion that some people in this country are more important than others. Last time I checked all the civil rights movements were based in the rejection of this notion. Yet here we are, in the warm seats of power, and now a ‘legislative priority’ is to make sure crimes committed against us are a more serious offense and punished more aggressively. I find it an obscene reversal of what so many fought for throughout the 20th century — to establish a group of people as deserving of special treatment because of either their complexion or sexual orientation. People have died in this county to end those sorts of policies. For us to embrace them is beyond shameful.”
– Homocon asshat Tammy Bruce, speaking to the Washington Blade’s house Quisling, Jessica Lee.
Bruce adds that men who target lesbians for corrective rape should be treated no differently than other rapists.
Well, isn’t she a piece of work?
TGC
@randy: “Yes, because he has a raised middle finger in the photo. Unless you believe it’s some sort of secret symbol, most people would interpret that as F U. ”
I think if you bothered to take a quick look around, and were the slightest bit honest, you’d find that’s a stock photo Queerty has which goes back to at least March. Why? I dunno. But if that gets your panties in a bunch and makes you grasp your pearls, you’ve got deeper issues than the pic.
Queer Supremacist
@Alexa: And that idiot so-called Gay so-called Patriot had the nerve to accuse the Log Cabin Republicans of allying with Democrats because they dared to take money from Tim Gill.
@randy: You make a good point, but one that will fall on deaf ears here. GOProud is not that group. These GOProud types are so desperate to fit into breeder-boy douchebag “culture” that they are willing to trade our liberties for their security.
They have no principles other than party loyalty and hatred of Democrats (I see plenty of the reverse of that here), pro-gay Republicans, and the LCR, which, for all their shortcomings is the superior of the two options. If Nancy Reagan supported gay marriage they’d call her a RINO.
DR
@randy:
And on the other hand, the left spends all its time demonizing gay republicans. Reading the responses here, I’m not nearly as confident as you that mainstream gay culture is open to a truly rational dialogue with a gay republican.
Queer Supremacist
@DR: You expect rationality? On Queerty? How long have you been here? They spend so much time attacking straw-man versions of conservatism that I wonder how many of them have jobs.
randy
My only concern is securing our rights. How we do that I really don’t care. But that makes me a minority of one in the gay community, I guess. For most people, scoring political points is a higher priority, and perhaps that’s the reason why we still don’t have the basics.
We’ve never been closer to repealing DADT, so what’s the biggest issue in the gay community? That Dan Choi isn’t a perfect speaker, and he charges money for his speeches. So I guess it’s more important to tear him down than to actually work on repealing DADT.
My fondest wish is that grownups will actually lead our cause some day, but that’s not going to happen anytime soon.
DR
@Queer Supremacist: I know, I know, I know.
@randy: I would like nothing but the same. Maybe it’s time for adults like us to do what we need to do and ignore the rest of the nonsense. Ignore the trolls and actually have a dialogue?
Rod
What I do know is that the last forty years of siding with Democrats hasn’t worked; this including times when we held both houses, the White House AND a majority on the SCOTUS. Never once during our times of power were effective, meaningful bills benefitting gays introduced, sponsored, or passed. PERIOD.
I wondered which is more pathetic and sick: staying with someone who SAYS they believe in you, SAYS they work on your behalf, etc., yet only take your check, pat you on the back during once-every-four-year photo ops, yet prove and provide nothing….OR someone who for all intents and purposes supports the rights of individuals (not divisive groups) for economic and political and ideological freedom, regardless of life-details and though lacking the support for social tasks some desire and even at least OPENLY expresses disagreements with your positions… are not, as an organized political strategy, LYING TO YOU and trying to give you a reach-around with the gnarled, wrinkled hand of patronization.
Additionally, I would add, as difficult as my coming out homosexual in my mid-thirties, in northwest Florida, was…I got infinitely more grief from cretans IN the gay community, nearly all of whom had incredibly snarky, selfish and ignorant rants about MY life and experiences (after having known me all of twenty minutes…), than I did from the locals in general (IN the ‘Bible Belt’). These experiences are being repeated these last few years as I ‘come out’ as a gay conservative.
I hear again and again how it’s a preference to come out gay to conservatives rather than come out conservative to gays.
And I suppose my final thought would be to those roundly criticizing the conservative gay movement: you should realize we didn’t spring up overnight from some dark abyss in the Ocala National Forest…we are, for the most part, LEAVING the Left, leaving the ‘gay movement’ to date, leaving what hasn’t worked, leaving what’s become an impotent and farcical movement that has lacked leadership for years and lacked the honesty, integrity and cahones to right itself. We are leaving a movement more often characterized by narcissistic parties, after-parties, parades and ‘expansion by group’ or ‘alphabet’ inclusion {see GLBTPDQTYZIOW…?} rather than by the promotion of ideals, individual-rights {where we all benefit, regardless of details} or innovation.
And for those ‘on the fence’ or ‘on the sidelines’, where I was for son long.. I make ONE suggestion: with pen and paper, under the categories of either RIGHT and LEFT, Dem and Rep, however you choose to delineate them…make a tic-mark each time you read, see or hear someone on either side of this burgeoning ‘gay conservative issue’, proffering violence or the threat of violence, name-calls or defers to shouting. None of these are characteristics of a productive, effective, intelligent or civil cause and will by definition, fail; and thereby may you choose your alliance, that your best efforts will be best laid and most successful.