• IQ A new study shows evidence between religious devotion and lower intelligence in the U.S. and Europe. [Science Direct]
• SWINE FLU + HIV Living with HIV and worried about swine flu? Learn about increased risks and precautions. [POZ]
• MUSICALS A coming out story set to music and sung by a choir? Yes, please! [West End Word]
• REALITY THERAPY British comedian Jim Davidson gets his own reality show … to learn how to not hate gays. [Guardian]
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
• STILL GOING Miss California Carrie Prejean continues her celebrity tour with a stop at Liberty University to chat with Chancellor Jerry Falwell, Jr. [Liberty University]
• MURDER Suspect apprehended in double shooting that killed a father of two and injured his gay partner. [Telegraph & Argus]
sal
well if ya never question and ya “believe”(they only believe when its convenient to em) in something ya cant see you expect the mind to be challenged??just look at the case between creationism and evolution
Cedric
I thought religious people being stupid was common knowledge.
Tallskin
Can we have some actual stats on that religious equals stupid, please?
I clicked on the link but they want some unfeasibly huge amount of dosh for us to see the results of their work!
come on Queerty, you’ve got loads of money.
If you’re not going to why the fuck mention it?
getreal
The poor and the uneducated are more likely to be religious. Why is this a news flash that they would not do as well on standardized test? That doesn’t mean all people are faith are stupid.
John
it’s funny, this report or study comes out on how religious people have lower I.Q’s (which is pretty evident) and a few articles after that is a religious beauty pageant loser who is making the rounds using her low IQ to spread her lovely message of intolerance.
Rob Tisinai
Not that I think religious people are necessarily dumber, but it’s interesting timing that I finished this youtube last night>
“Traditional Values Coalition: Dishonest or Dumb?”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2nNzq2CrBo
sal
@getreal: i have a question,do you ever question stuff??or do you just follow the flock?i personally believe the ones that dont think its an abomination to think are the ones with a brain(after all its a brain in our head and a “holy book” in our hands and not the other way around,which i guess means our birth right for that higher being is a brain over the other stuff)
sal
error i meant to say “…our birth right FROM that….”
getreal
@sal: I’m actually always studying theology i find it interesting to delve into other religions and schools of thought. I also respect all people’s religious views (as long as they don’t infringe on others). I have met with Buddhist monks in Thailand and Shinto priests in Japan and prayed in Notre Dam in Paris. I don’t feel that one school of thought has more value than another because I happen to subscribe to one.I have always been interested in theology and philosophy that does not make me someone who follows a flock.
sal
@getreal: well i hope all that studying you come across all the interesting passages in the bible like condoning slavery etc
kevin (not that one)
This study suggests a correlation between religious belief and lower education.
But this study:
http://longevity.about.com/od/longevityboosters/a/religion_life.htm
suggests a correlation between religious belief and longer lifespans. The author at about.com suggests this may be due to religious people having larger social networks and financial security. But, both can’t be right, can they? If religious people are likely to be less educated, how can they also have more financial security and large, stable social networks? Do not non-religious people have the same?
sal
@sal: and i wonder if you guy ever look at the evolution of the bible ,for example Muhammad interpritation(continuation)of the bible
Rob Moore
To actually believe in all that hocus pocus, one has to be either pretty stupid or delusional. I have met many, many fundamentalists. They are not generally capable of deep thoughts, critical analysis, or stringing together more than four or five words into a coherent sentence.
sal
interpretation*
getreal
@sal: First of all stop being so stereotypical. I absolutely believe in evolution so instead of wasting time on what I believe why not concentrate on what you believe.
@Rob Moore: I also find fundamentalists to be annoying.
sal
@getreal: ummm huh?questioning means i stereotype?wow ok
getreal
@sal: No it was referring to you asking me if I’m part of a flock and asking me about slavery as if I a black person condone it. Seem unnecessarily offensive to me. You seemed to want to argue about it which i’m not going to do.
Allan
Here’s a little more info copied and pasted. $31.50 for the entire article. It says it’s been available online since Apr 29 2008!
Average intelligence predicts atheism rates across 137 nations
References and further reading may be available for this article. To view references and further reading you must purchase this article.
Richard Lynna, , , John Harveyb and Helmuth Nyborgc
a University of Ulster, Coleraine, Northern Ireland, United Kingdom
b 1 Drove Cottages, Rodmell, Lewes, East Sussex BN7 3HD, England, United Kingdom
c University of Aarhus, (1968–2007), Denmark
Received 3 January 2008; revised 12 February 2008; accepted 18 March 2008. Available online 29 April 2008.
Abstract
Evidence is reviewed pointing to a negative relationship between intelligence and religious belief in the United States and Europe. It is shown that intelligence measured as psychometric g is negatively related to religious belief. We also examine whether this negative relationship between intelligence and religious belief is present between nations. We find that in a sample of 137 countries the correlation between national IQ and disbelief in God is 0.60.
Keywords: Religion; IQ
Article Outline
1. Introduction
2. Intelligence and religious belief within nations
2.1. (1) Negative correlations between intelligence and religious belief
2.2. (2) Lower percentages holding religious beliefs among intelligence elites compared with the general population
2.3. (3) Decline of religious belief with age among children and adolescents
2.4. (4) Decline of religious belief during the course of the twentieth century as the intelligence of the population has increased
3. Religious belief and psychometric g
4. Intelligence and religious belief between nations
5. Discussion
Appendix A
References
sal
@getreal: here are my two points
1.the “stupid” ones are the ones who think questioning is an abomination.
2.i wonder,hope those theological schools are a place one can question freely cause i think religion has allot of holes and mix up stuff around it…i stand by that and if ya have a prob,bite me
TANK
@kevin (not that one):
Alright Copernicus, slow down…don’t strain your mind trying to undermine statistical facts.
getreal
@sal: It is intelligent to question it is stupid to be rude or condescending with people who feel differently. It is stupid to start a dialogue in a negative way if you really want to have a substantive discussion. If someone is secure in their beliefs they will not be threatened with other people believing differently. It is asinine to expect me a 28 year old to be answerable for a thousand year old text. I have discussed theology all over the world and i have learned that without mutual respect a real dialogue is not possible.
TANK
@getreal:
Well, answerable isn’t quite the word. Do I hold you responsible for the inquisition? No, but you do share some responsibility for the atrocities committed in christ’s name as a christian…as you do perpetuate some of the beliefs responsible.
I also think that a man who isn’t a domestic violence perp but who never says anything about sexism or condemns it is benefiting from sexism through pay, private stuff…etc…and is partly responsible for it.
I mean, if christians aren’t responsible for what christians do in the name of christianity and as a result of christian beliefs and values, who is?
TANK
“I think of a man…and then I take away reason and accountability.”
kevin (not that one)
@TANK: Question dodger.
TANK
@kevin (not that one):
That was a lame question…I’ve got a better one.
If god doesn’t exist, so how come we have thumbs? It doesn’t make sense…and the mystery of it all continues on…
kevin (not that one)
No, but you do share some responsibility for the atrocities committed in christ’s name as a christian…as you do perpetuate some of the beliefs responsible.
And I suppose you’ll gladly take credit for the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki?
TANK
@kevin (not that one):
As an american? Sure, I’ve benefited from WW II. Indirect, of course.
kevin (not that one)
@TANK: As an american? Sure, I’ve benefited from WW II. Indirect, of course.
Oh, so you believe in imaginary lines on a map?
getreal
@TANK:So now you are chasing me from thread to thread? To repeat what I said earlier I have learned that without mutual respect a real dialogue is not possible. If someone thinks my existence as a person who believes in God means I am to blame for all religions ills that is not a conversation I need to engage in it is not rational and I’m not interested.
TANK
@kevin (not that one):
No, crazy, what I’m saying is that citizens of nations aren’t automatically recused of responsibility from the things those nations have done just because they weren’t alive when they were done or didn’t do it directly. We all have blood on our hands, even if it we can’t see it to wash it off.
TANK
@getreal:
Blah blah blah blah, no one is trying to convert you, crazy lady.
sal
@getreal: wow and calling me stupid(i felt the GRACE of god with that low blow,thank you now i believe)…i personally think the with each religion thinking they are the real deal how does dialogue exist without each faith allowing questioning and compromise?
getreal
@TANK: Then stop chasing me around try to so hard to get my opinion stalker. I had completely forgotten about you feel free to forget about me. Thanks!
kevin (not that one)
@TANK: So you believe that the child is responsible for the sins of the father?
That’s very Old Testament/Hebrew Bible of you.
TANK
@getreal:
I’m not chasing you around. Don’t flatter yourself. Do you know who the fuck I am? LOL!
Just stop preaching in the comments sections, k sugar?
sal
@getreal: and if you think im mean you should take that though of yours that you believe in evolution to your christian brothers and sisters and see the beauty of that faith of yours you stand up for…by the way im half black
kevin (not that one)
@getreal: Getreal: I think I sense some sock-puppeting going on. Queerty editors, are you seeing any discrepancies with the IP addresses and screen names?
getreal
@sal: You introduced the word stupid not me into the dialogue. See:
No. 19 · sal
@getreal: here are my two points
1.the “stupid” ones are the ones who think questioning is an abomination.
2.i wonder,hope those theological schools are a place one can question freely cause i think religion has allot of holes and mix up stuff around it…i stand by that and if ya have a prob,bite me
If someone can not ask someone questions with being condescending or rude they don’t really want answers they just want someone to reassure their biases. It is like when i meet someone and they ask me what the ghetto is like (my parents are a judge and an academic). They are asking me a rude question to put me on the defensive not because they actually want to discuss the ghetto. If you want to have a discussion with a person you can’t approaching things with sarcasm or superiority not if actually want to exchange ideas.FYI tell someone you think their views are stupid is not exchanging ideas.
sal
@getreal: and i personally think being black is another reason you should have a problem with the faith,it stripped our ancestors of their identity,and having a great grand mother who is native Indian,her people faced that same tragic fate too
getreal
@kevin (not that one): Oh do you think Sal and tank are one person? It does seem strange that my personal views on religion are suddenly so important to two different strangers. Oh well I will avoid people who just want to dump their anger on others. Thanks for the tip.
sal
@getreal: you should read it again pal ,im not the christian fan here you are and one would think you believing in jesus you would have the GRACE of him..I dont need to have it since i ain the one sayin “im a christian” like its a flipin goodie tag
sal
the GRACE enough not to use the stupid word to bring a person down..i never denied the word cause THAT WAS NOT DA POINT OF DAT COMMENT lol
TANK
SAL? Is that me? Who knew finding myself would be so easy…
getreal
@getreal: I really like that you have added complexity to the issue some people get very emotional and feel the need to lash out at complete strangers. Weird
sal
you alwayssss here these Christians taking about their faith loud and proud but then ya see their hateful ways and ya realize they aint better than me lol
sal
@TANK: huh?lost me there?elaborate plz
getreal
@getreal: oops that last post was for you.
sal
@TANK: ohhhh she(or he)thinks we are the same!!ohh,now saw the comment….wow two people disagree with her(he) and for an excuse shes(he?) back to the hairy-fairy stuff like her faith
sal
@TANK: hey tank i hear we are a match…so are you single??
sal
@getreal: question for ya
1. are you a guy or a girl?so i know what to refer to you as
2.are ya gay?
3.did you honestly expect no opposition with that faith of yours on a gay website??honestly.look at the largest group that’s against our equality and just ask a gay person their personal fights with the faith….you should be shocked that there are only two people who oppose you and your belief
getreal
@sal: I don’t need you to refer to me. I already addressed that I am interested in dialogues that are mutually respectful once someone displays bias I respectful decline. I was shocked that someone that I respectfully tried to dialogue with for two days actually followed me to a different thread when I gave up the dialogue.Go to the 100 pastors thread read it in it’s entirety and you will see what I mean. It is two days of religious dialogue it is a good read.
getreal
Start from the top read all the way down and you will see why both Kevin and I were avoiding a dialogue with Tank.
http://www.queerty.com/can-100-pastors-really-start-a-gay-marriage-armageddon-in-dc-20090428/
kevin (not that one)
@getreal: He wants to know your personal info so that he can pigeonhole you and make generalizations. Glad you saw that obvious red flag.
getreal
@kevin (not that one): Exactly.
sal
@kevin (not that one): wow,ok..well there is a perspective.i wanted to know cause im callin getreal a she and i wanna know if im making an error THATS ALL and i wanted to know her(his) sexual orientation cause i possibly wanted a dialogue cause i dont get how as a gay person ,if she(orhe)is,can stand by a faith that thinks of em as an abomination??..not all questions are evil and whatever you wanna make it as
getreal
@kevin (not that one): I’ve learned.
sal
@getreal:”I don’t need you to refer to me”well then i guess since i dont know if to say “he” or “she” do i say “it” then?…i couldnt give a rats arse about you and tank,if you dont remember it was you first and the pal of yours who made false statements about tank and me ..my interaction started with you when i asked you a question,nothin to do with tank
getreal
@sal: I just sent you a link to a link to a very interesting conversation on religion. I wish you had read it. There was a lot of data that addressed a few of your questions. If you start from the top and read it all the way down it would only take about 10 minutes and i t would be quite illuminating. Particularly since it offers statistical proof that dispels a few myths that you referred to.
sal
@getreal: i saw it and what i dont get is what holds you to a faith that your not 100% behind,some of your arguments are against the church (like evolution) but how do you sell that to people who are told to hold to their faith and believe the earth was created in days?
sal
you’re*
sal
400+ comments yikes
getreal
No. 141 · Dan
Those of you who are talking about whether Christians accept homosexuality might find this interesting. It’s the huge Pew Center survey released at the end of April. One question was, do you think homosexuality should be accepted or discouraged by society?
According to the survey, 56% of mainline Protestants and 58% of Catholics think homosexuality should be accepted. That’s compared with the national average of 50% for all Americans. Only 40% of all Americans think homosexuality should be discouraged.
Of the few Orthodox Christians, only 48% think homosexuality should be accepted. However, even fewer at 37% think it should be discouraged. Evangelicals, Mormons, and the few Jehovah’s Witnesses also are unlikely to think it should be accepted: 26%, 24%, and a tiny 12% for Jehovah’s Witnesses.
Of the small Other Christians group, 69% think it should be accepted. Historically Black churches are at 39%, vs. a somewhat larger 46% who think it should be discouraged.
Large majorities of Jews, Buddhists, and Other Faiths think homosexuality should be accepted: 79%, 82%, and 84%. Hindus are at 48%, but that’s compared with 37% who think it should be discouraged.
Unaffiliated Americans are also likely to think it should be accepted: 71%. This group includes atheists.
Remember, Americans are MUCH more likely to support gay rights than to think homosexuality should be accepted. For example, 67% supported same-sex marriage or civil unions in a new CBS/NY Times poll. That’s 42% for marriage (a 9% increase in one month) and 25% for civil unions!
I don’t post often but I post long 🙂
getreal
Dan did anyone a favor by posting a very large survey illustrating the complexity of this issue. There is no one school of thought for people of faith. It is asinine to actually believe that huge, diverse group of people from all over the world(or even all over this country for that matter) could possibly have a specific way of thinking. To judge hundreds of MILLIONS of people based on a loud hateful minority is silly. This is 2009 if you really think all christian hate gays you need to get out of your insular community and actually meet different kinds of people. There comes a point where if you have been a victim of religious people in the past you stop being a victim when you adopt a defensive, condescending posture with every person of faith you meet. Asking me if I can think for myself or am just part of a flock or if I condone slavery is a way to shut down not start a conversation. You chose to start that way I choose to avoid people who think it is appropriate to act that way.
getreal
Reading 400 comments is hard? LOL well I guess the word hard means different things to different people.
getreal
So a survey of almost 400,000 christians in this country 67% believe in gay rights kind of blows your posts out of the water. But then again how can I have a dialogue with someone who think 10 minutes of reading is “hard” but ask me if I can think for myself. I can think for myself and READ for myself try it you might like it.
No. 160 · Dan
@getreal: I think it helps to be grounded with actual numbers 🙂 The sample size is huge as well, more than 33,000.
The marriage results are great too:
42% favor same-sex marriage – the largest group!
25% are for civil unions
29% are for no couple rights
getreal
oops 33,000 still big
sal
@getreal: i never said it was hard im thinking(no offense)do you have a job?
getreal
@sal: Yes I run my own company
getreal
What does that even mean?
sal
@getreal: and yet the facts show prop8 was a yes vote,the fact is obama refuses to follow the constitution cause he is afraid he will lose next election.when you look at the people who support this pageant girl and her hate speech that doesnt say majority to me…if you-the “modern christian” is the majority why am i not seeing you in the public??
sal
where is the power of this majority to say ,to those you say hijacked the modern faith you follow,that modern christians are not like this….where are you to drown out prop8?
getreal
As some who worked on the no on Prop8 campaign and has spent my weekends since the election phone banking, canvassing and organizing around the issue I find your presumptuousness disturbing. There are over 50 religious organizations donating money and man hours to this fight I’m am tired of do nothings like you casually tossing of comments like “they all hate gay people”. As someone who spends an extensive amount of my time on marriage equality activism it is an insult to the many people working every day on issues of equality to discount significant percentages of their populations because of your own biases. I think I’m done if you had not thrown the can you think for yourself question and slavery questions it would be one thing but you did and I have read you post anything new or interesting. So have a good night.
sal
looking at the stuff you wrote on the other topic it’s funny to see some of the stuff,lines,passages you use that i used too in earlier stories on queerty(like on slavery,race etc) kinda eerie too…look at old posts and maybe you will see what im talking bout
Dan
I’d have to say that Queerty shares some responsibility for encouraging anti-religious prejudice on the site.
I wouldn’t be surprised if fundamentalists in many nations are less intelligent than other groups. Having said that, I see some immediate methodological and conceptual problems with this study. First of all, “psychometric g” is no longer a dominant measure of intelligence. Many other forms of intelligence, such as simultaneous, sequential, and semantic – not to mention Garder’s model of multiple intelligences – show very different results from “g”. At least one reviewer has shown compelling evidence that what psychometricians once thought was “g” was actually a more more limited construct, perhaps verbal ability.
The group that looks for correlations between “g” and other characteristics has a long history of trying to demonstrate that African Americans are less intelligent than other races. One of them argued that all the races can be lined up, and a negative correlation can be found, with the least intelligent races having the biggest dicks.
This leads to a big problem with “g”. The inventor of an earlier intelligence test, the Wechsler Scales, thought that African Americans should be less intelligent than whites, so he threw out all the items that black people did well on. Naturally, the test ended up making African Americans look less intelligent than whites. It was a self-fulfilling prophecy. And the Wechsler Scales have been used in developing all the other tests of “g” since then.
And African Americans are more likely to be religious than white people. Could that be the reason for the findings of this study: the test penalizes black people, so it also penalizes religious people? It seems pretty likely to me.
The problems don’t stop there, though. The Pew study found huge differences between religious groups. I mentioned some of them: acceptance of homosexuality ranges from over 90% for Unitarians to some 12% for Jehovah’s witnesses. And these researchers presume to lump all religious people together and find a single correlation for all of them?
Responsible researchers test their respondents first to see if they behave like one group. If they are, one correlation is appropriate. Yet, we’ve already seen where religious people behave like different groups. Does anyone really think that Unitarians and Jehovah’s Witnesses think and act alike? The researchers did a “between nations” analysis, but they needed a “between religious denominations” analysis.
This is a major problem: “average intelligence predicts atheism rates across 137 nations.” If you correlate a variable with a rate, your results will be inflated – in most cases, greatly inflated. The abstract states that the researchers correlated “g” with “religious belief”, but they didn’t. Correlation with a rate is nearly always fatal.
These rules aren’t just nitpicking. If you don’t follow them, your results will be inaccurate. Honestly, I’m a little blown away. Well, that’s my rambling for now 🙂
Dan
Oops! “Garder” above should be Gardner.
sal
@getreal: what?!?the FACT is that prop8 passed,its a FACT…in no way am i spitting on those of you who fought against it,all im sayin is that the fact is that (by the passing of that bill)it showed you are a minority..im gay and i WISH im wrong but this is the reality that is there NOW.PROP 8 PASSED,I dont think that is a figment of mine or anyone imagination……i live in the caribbean,where whites are the minority so the whole black thing is a diff world 4 me here ,and the view i have is diff,i see discrimination on gays from black people here ,black majority who are christians…i know modern christians here but they are a minority and i look around and they are a minority in the world too,i wanna be wrong and i hope you guys get MORE PUBLIC,cause my reality is that i dont see it
getreal
@Dan: Thank you Dan I wish you would post more you post facts not opinions and it is a nice change. As you see I reposted your post here (giving you credit of course) because they’re is such some much throw around on this site based on people’s opinions not facts. I was particularly impressed with the survey statistics people who live in insular communities and don’t branch out are the first to speak for all of America that is why surveys can be such a good tool to people to illuminate what is going on in other communities.
sal
i think modern churches should come out the closet.take the podium and say its time for change loud so gays and straight can actually hear em
sal
i wouldnt need to say squat if there were these guys out there and flexing their moderate belief power
getreal
@sal: Why don’t you do some research? Many, many of them are. Ever heard of Faith for Equality(mulit-denominational)? The Momma Bears(straight mormons for equality) Even Al Sharpton came out in favor of gay marriage, So have the Southern Christian leadership (the organization that Martin Luther King started) the list goes on and on.
sal
@getreal: yeah but why did prop 8 pass ,you must admit the excuse used by allot of people is the banning gay marriage “is the will of the majority so you dont wanna go against the majority”
sal
@getreal: no offense but why do i or anyone have to do research to find em??shouldn’t y’all be more public.isn’t that an error to not be out there so the minority of as you say old fashioned Christians dont sell this “lie” that they are the majority?
getreal
Yawn
sal
@getreal: even obama wouldnt say he’s for gay marriage.i mean where are you guys to argue to him against that point?and how your faith doesnt conflict with marriage for gays?
Dan
@getreal: I’m glad I can help, and thank you for giving my earlier comments more traction 🙂 I can’t post as often as I’d like, unfortunately, so your reposting is helpful.
I had noticed the same thing that you did – people were posting their own opinions and often treating them as facts. So I got the idea to post actual percentages. And I agree, people are so insular that their view of other, diverse groups can become distorted.
@getreal: I agree with you too. The religious moderates and progressives are out there and are even numerous. We could make more progress if we could get them more involved.
Dan
Whoops! That second @getreal was supposed to be @sal.
sal
@getreal: “yawn” wwjd
sal
@Dan: yup i think not just conservative christians will learn something but gay who have a negative view of the faith thanks to really negative personal experiences they had..i REALLY REALLY wanna see this majority,talk about something we need
Dan
@sal: “how your faith doesnt conflict with marriage for gays?”
Well, the Bible mentions two same-sex relationships: Ruth and Naomi, and David and Jonathan. The first couple seem to have exchanged vows, and the second definitely did. They even renewed their vows later. The scriptures are favorable toward both couples.
Dan
@sal: Me too! I think one time we see them is when a large majority (in the US, at least) responds in favor of an LGBT rights measure. And they usually do. That must include a lot of religious people, because only a slim 16% of the people have no religious affiliation.
HeteroDefenseLeague
I spend all my time thinking about having sex with men the only thing that helps is coming to this website and arguing with them. I need a boyfriend.
Dan
I gotta turn in. Have a good day 🙂
sal
@Dan: Well why aint i hearing that argument/proof from the bible ANYWHERE EVERRRR not even in those debates where they use the bible to bead a gay down christian shows….ill give ya a personal story,i called a christian show and i was the lone pro gay voice
Dan
@HeteroDefenseLeague: lol
getreal
@Dan: Thanks for your contribution Dan.
sal
not “bead” i mean beat
Dan
@sal: I’m not a fan of christian talk shows either, truthfully. They seem to reflect a narrow cross-section of christians. Maybe that’s why the pro-gay folks aren’t watching them.
Dan
@getreal: Thank you, Getreal. You make some good, spot-on points.
Y’all have a good day 🙂
TANK
@Dan:
Here are some other bible quotes, dan. Hope this helps you with your internal conflict.
Leviticus 20:9
If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death.
20:10 If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.
20:13 If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death.
Deuteronomy 22:20-1 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house.
Exodus 35:2 For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death.
On Slavery & Subjugation of Women
Ephesians 5:22-24 Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
Exodus 21:20-21 If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.
1 Peter 2:13 Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every authority instituted among men.
2:18 Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.
Leviticus 25:44-45
Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
getreal
@Dan: They are bigots, historically bigots have always used religion to rationalize wrongs Germans used chritianity to rationalize murdering millions and millions of jewish people, racists in this country used the bible to rationalize slavery and segregation. Now they are using the bible to rationalize hatred and persecution of gays even though anyone who actual reads scripture and any biblical scholar will tell you that there no admonitions against homosexuality in the bible only against temple prostitution. There will always be people use use religion to make them feel justified doing evil. Look at the genital mutilation of young girls by often illiterate people who believe that they must for Islam even though there is absolutely no mention of such a practice in the Koran. Modern life has in some ways finally caught up to the theme’s of Love they brothers as they self and theme’s like i am my brothers keeper. To compare the average person to a fundamentalist is just stupid. A person who lives in the Caribbean ( one of the most homophobic regions on the earth) may not have the most realistic view of what the average person in America believes. I think my point is it is an undeniable fact that there is a cultural shift going on among Christians on the subject of LGBT people and equality and only someone cut off from the mainstream on their own island (pun intended) would not see that. I understand that some people have baggage because people of faith were mean to them in their pasts but at a certain point I feel like saying “I’m not your therapist and it is not my job to help you work out your anger at people from your past”. It is my job to try to be a good person, to fight injustice where I see it fight for equality for all people and to try to leave the world better than I found it. Ultimately I am not responsible for anyone’s action but my own nor am I responsible for other people’s emotional baggage.
sal
@TANK: i think the church needs to acknowledge that the religion evolves,cause like stoning was acceptable but then Jesus came along and said otherwise ….and then if ya wanna go further the Muslim faith came along when Mohammed came along and his version was diff too(where Jesus is just a prophet) and then the catholic church came along where a pope became a significant part of that faith and the the Anglicans,created with the right to divorce etc etc the evolution of the faith
TANK
@sal:
Yes, religion is a natural phenomenon like any other. IT has evolved through its inception to accomodate changing social values. Jesus was no pacifist, though…quite a prima madonna, too.
“Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.” (Matthew 10:34-39 NASB)
sal
@TANK: yeah but the people who killed him thought he was perverse for sayin he was the son of god,so Jesus was a victim too of a church/faith that refused to evolve (old testament vs new testament)…
TANK
@sal:
Irony like that…you could sell it and make some serious coin.
sal
@TANK: lol
Bill Perdue
Not only are religious (superstitous) people dumber than most, they’re prone to mental illness.
Religion is humankinds worst self-inflicted wound.
Jebuz never existed.
Bill Perdue
I have dementia I yell all night on queerty
it makes up for the fact that no one will have sex with me
Bill Perdue
That was getsevenwithgaymen, aka getreal. She’s supersitious, not very bright and pathetic.
getreal
@Bill Perdue: Why are so hell bent on bothering me? Are you really so sick that you choose to constantly write about me? If other posters don’t like you it is because you are mean to people Bill plain and simple. I have learned over time that you can’t help it you really think everyone is against you. It seems very sad. Good luck to you.
getreal
I’m going to go back to completely ignoring your posts as they seem to be completely dedicated to these imaginary vendettas with people you don’t even know on this website and never anything to do with the issue. If imagining a group of people you have never met and will never meet who post on this site in between work and emails makes you feel like are your friends and or enemies makes you feel important go for it. If that is what you need in your life then go for it.
Pragmatist
Oh, ick. I was fine when she offered her opinion at the pageant. But now, seeing this media-whoring spectacle, I’m past that. She is a dumb bitch.
getreal
@Pragmatist: Soon the skeletons will start to come out of the closet then it will get very interesting.
Bill Perdue
getreal is a christer and mimics some of the worst anti-GLBT bigotry of those people.
http://www.queerty.com/morning-goods-colter-johnson-20090203/ Go to comment 7 where she baits tallskin, accusing him of being a pedarest.
http://www.queerty.com/michael-lucas-takes-on-black-porn-stars-not-in-that-way-20090327/ Go down to comment 254. This is getsevenwithblackgaymen commenting on the plot of AA gay men to spread HIV/AIDs. It’s pretty sick stuff. You can tell from her comments that she’s not very successful at converting or seducing gay men to her sick lifestyle.
getreal
I invite anyone to read any of those threads anytime they are posted more people tell me they agree. I made the mistake of identifying as straight and became a target of a certain poster who hates all straights because of how some straights treated him in his childhood. So he attacks me a gay rights activist because he hates straight and christian people people like a klansman hates blacks.He actually also started attacking me when I identified as black so that may be part of it as well he doesn’t like jews either he says “zionists” must be defeated. Anyone who has grown up with jewish people like I have has learned that that is coded anti-Semitism. He harassed people so badly for their sexual orientations and religions so much the site actually warned him. I am glad he posts those innocuous threads they prove that he is as much a bigot as Miss California but instead of hating gays he hates straights (even if they are gay rights activists), jews, black, and christians. I challenge anyone to read the the threads but if you are straight, bisexual, transgender, and religion especially jewish, black, or voted for Obama do not identify or you will become his target. He has obviously suffered enough in his life he doesn’t have much going on so he feel it is his job to try to punish the people he feels are not good for gays. I guess it takes all kinds.
TANK
Yeah…I’m considering renouncing atheism because of bill perdue…Rather be a dumb religionist.
getreal
@TANK: LOL!
Bill Perdue
@TANK: dumb superstition ridden lout or dumb athiest lout, tankies always the same. Boring and not very bright.
strumpetwindsock
@TANK:
@Bill Perdue:
Aw come on,,, I thought you guys enjoyed each others’ company.
Hey, maybe TANK can sell you some State of Israel bonds.
TANK
@TANK:
If you’re interested in religion as a natural phenomenon, here’s a talk by psychiatrist Andy Thomson (yes, he does use a swiss army knife to highlight his likening of his talk to a…swiss army knife of helpful ideas…other than that curious setback, it’s very good) specifically about the psychological and biological origins of religion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iMmvu9eMrg&feature=player_embedded
TANK
@Bill Perdue:
Awww, bill, it’s spelled ‘atheist,’ you red diaper baby wannabe.
TANK
@strumpetwindsock:
Don’t you have a homophobic country or person to defend?
strumpetwindsock
@TANK:
Well if you’re looking for an advocate dear…
But I do charge by the hour, and I pre-screen clients, so I may not have time for you in my schedule.
TANK
@strumpetwindsock:
Thus the indignation with my not so flattering comments about sex trade workers. Pass, strumpet.
strumpetwindsock
@TANK:
Sorry, you brought it up.
After the way you were tossing the words “faggot” and “nellie” around in here yesterday I thought you might be fishing for a decent handler.
Actually I don’t know what you mean about me defending homophobic nations or people. If you could ante up with some things I actually said I might have an idea what you’re on about.
strumpetwindsock
And a girl has got to make a living somehow.
TANK
@strumpetwindsock:
Hey, if the shoe fits. And Pam had it coming. Some gay men are, in fact, very bad things (faggots)…and that’s all they are.
You, for example, seem to be affirming that distinction with your repeated and empty accusation that I’m homophobic.
Of course you defend them. You minimized prejean’s homophobia by saying that it’s not important to focus on, and that she’s harmless…this before she started working for NOM. Perhaps you didn’t literally class her statements as non-bigoted, but you minimized them, and their significance. Further, your tirades against the red stripe boycott are similarly without solid foundation…and your statements that it’s a gay friendly company were proven false.
TANK
Oh God.
It was a beauty contest, not a testimony meeting. She was supposed to say something diplomatic and she failed, utterly.
From you…minimizing. There are many comments like this one.
strumpetwindsock
@TANK:
Direct quotes my dear.
Again, you’re spouting things I did not say. Anyone who wants to know what I said should go back and read my words.
But I will say that if you honestly class whatshername as a heavyweight and a serious threat you are more paranoid than I thought. She is this month’s homophobia poster girl, nothing more.
strumpetwindsock
@TANK:
You trotted this one out before, and I already explained that was an attack on her for treating a contest like it was a forum for her to grandstand about her faith.
She can hardly complain she was made into a martyr, because the whole point of a beauty contest is to be diplomatic and friendly, not divisive.
“She failed, utterly,” I think I said there.
TANK
@strumpetwindsock:
Let’s not forget this gem…
Hold on. I’m just just commenting on Nickadoo’s post that a person can be personally opposed to an issue and yet still support something being made legal.
Our former Prime Minister Paul Martin, a strong Roman Catholic, made a statement saying that very thing before his government introduced legislation recognizing Same Sex Marriage in Canada.
I know whatshername didn’t say that and I’m not saying that she did. I am just saying that a person can hold one value for his or herself, yet believe something else is right for the public good, and it is not necessarily a conflict.
Listen up. You’re not likely to get any marriage equality passed down there unless people start understanding that distinction.
What can this be interpreted as other than at the very least minimizing, and at the most a defense of her beliefs?
TANK
@strumpetwindsock:
And then you defended those who freely chose to associate with her on more than just a casual level by basically defending the position that who one freely chooses to associate with has no bearing on their character.
Bill Perdue
@TANK:
Tankie admits that he begs for attention with clumsy insults. Is that sad or what?
Whether he’s playing the dumb superstition ridden lout, the dumb athiest lout, the attention whore or the zionist piglet, tankies always the same… unnecessary.
TANK
I think strumpet’s bill perdue.
TANK
@TANK:
Anyway, this is what I posted on this topic for.
strumpetwindsock
@TANK:
Yup. I said all that, and stand by it.
Thank you for including my specific reference to her.
@TANK:
Yup. Anyone who wants to know the details should look up that shitty attack piece on Michael Phelps and read what I had to say there.
TANK
I’m glad you admit it, then. You’ve minimized her hate speech, and give those who apparently have no problem with it a pass because hey, according to you, who you hang with is no reflection on you…
strumpetwindsock
@Bill Perdue:
@TANK:
Gee Bill, he has discovered our secret.
No TANK… “STRUMPETWINDSOCK’ is you pretending to be me. “strumpetwindsock” is just me; sorry to disappoint you.
TANK
@strumpetwindsock:
Yeah right. You know I didn’t do that…anyone can verify this by checking out the IP addresses.
strumpetwindsock
@TANK:
*sigh*
Go back and read my words, not your spin.
TANK
You probably did it to yourself to have something to desperately try to “discredit” me with for all I know.
TANK
@strumpetwindsock:
Your words speak for themselves…minimizing bigotry.
Bill Perdue
Tankie admits that he begs for attention with clumsy insults. Is that sad or what?
Whether he’s playing the paranoid superstition ridden lout, the athiest lout, the attention whore or the zionist piglet, tankies always the same… unnecessary.
TANK
I think your colostomy bag’s full, bill/strumpet. And you’re cranky because of low blood sugar.
TANK
Have a ginger snap and some juice.
anderson cooper is my future husband
Bill Perdue is an idiot with no value in the world.He is an immature moron.
Bill Perdue
@anderson cooper is my future husband: is a straight christian bigot. He’s scum.
Heres proof: No. 44 · anderson cooper is my future husband
@Charles J. Mueller: As someone who does a lot of traveling to south east asia I know exactly the kind of traveler you are. For those of you who have never been to the Philippines it is infested with pervy old western men who go there because there are a lot of people who live in poverty who will form relationships with these old men out of sheer desperation. I have seen these men they go to these countries pay young men and women to have sex with them (often underage people) and delude themselves that “asians are not hung up on age” or “their sense of morality is different than ours” not taking into account crushing poverty and hunger for some people becomes so unbearable that sharing a bed with someone, anyone western is a ticket out of a very hard life. These relationships are always based on money.We met men like this there with their “boyfriends” they are essentially johns but pathetically don’t know it they genuinely think these people they pay for sex and eventually to live with them actually love them. No wonder you are not disgusted by this kid who blackmailed kids into sex acts you probably haven’t had uncoerced (free) sex in years.
Posted: Feb 6, 2009 at 8:58 pm
http://www.queerty.com/wisconsin-boy-uses-facebook-to-sexually-assault-classmates-20090206/
anderson cooper is my future husband
@Bill Perdue: This guy spends most of his time posting about how pedophilia should be legal for gays and picking on gay blacks and gay jews he is the worst. He spends all his time pushing his racist agenda and attacking anyone who won’t agree with his sick point of view. Check out post #142 were his calls jewish people pigs this guy is a known anti-semite Flag his posts.
strumpetwindsock
@anderson cooper is my future husband:
Actually #133 is the amusing one.
anderson cooper is my future husband
@strumpetwindsock: It is pretty weird. You are rational and respectful Bill Perdue hates everyone and everything and just attacks people. Anyone who has read your posts and his would never think you were the same. Him and Tank sound more like the same person to me.
anderson cooper is my future husband
@strumpetwindsock: I Also don’t know whether to be complimented or insulted that he posts I’m straight. I’m a gay agnostic but I guess he feels the need to make stuff up if he gets called out on his crap. I think he is also this fem in the city.
TANK
@anderson cooper is my future husband:
As much as I dislike bill perdue, you’re about as intelligent as tapioca pudding, and as concrete as cement. Idiot. And, it would seem, totally willing to ride the suicide of an 11 year old who was bullied to death with REAL HOMOPHOBIA for attention and to paint yourself as the victim of a homophobic attack because your meaningless feelings were hurt when I called you an hysterical faggot. And that’s whatcha are, blanche.
strumpetwindsock
Plus somebody just faked Fem’s handle in the “Hollywood” thread.
You wouldn’t know anything about that, would you TANK?
TANK
When you can’t win, you lie strumpet. And you can’t win. It’s a waste of time flagging your comments. You’re a petty liar.
anderson cooper is my future husband
@strumpetwindsock: lol. What kind of gay man calls other gay men faggot and uses a gay website to harass other gay men with anti-gay hate speech. I would not put anything past that kind of a person.
strumpetwindsock
@TANK:
I don’t actually blame you, TANK, as much as I do the owners of this site for letting shit like this go on.
You can’t help being who you are, but I expect a bit of responsibility from administrators. THis is so fucking high school.
anderson cooper is my future husband
@strumpetwindsock: I think queerty is a great site and I think they work pretty hard to consistently give us on a daily basis a large amount of great content. Over time things always seem to work themselves out in the comment section bullies get bullied till they go away or begin posting responsibly I don’t think the site is to blame assholes will be assholes and eventually they get called out.
strumpetwindsock
@anderson cooper is my future husband:
Yeah it’s a great site, but I have a big problem with harrassment and a lot of the language in here.
And a lot of sites would bust someone’s ass right away for registering two handles (and call the perpetrator out publicly so everyone knew).
Letting shit like this pass puts us all at risk. It sure didn’t make me feel too good when TANK did it to me. How would anyone like it if they had their name stolen and abused?
TANK
@anderson cooper is my future husband:
I calls ’em like I see ’em. And you’re every negative stereotype of gay men with nothing positive to recommend your stunted personality. And, you’re not very intelligent.
TANK
@strumpetwindsock:
Yes, and you perpetuate that atmosphere. You’re to blame just as much as everyone else you’re blaming.
anderson cooper is my future husband
@strumpetwindsock: Well I used to also read Jossip and there was someone on there doing it and initially I would post that wasn’t me and get pissed but it actually became funny after awhile. Just my opinion. The thing about name stealing is that anyone reading your posts can see your tone even when or if Tank were to use your name he could never sound like you he does not have it in him.
TANK
I’ll never have it in me, thank you very much. Concern troll.
anderson cooper is my future husband
@strumpetwindsock: I am more disturbed by the hate speech but if someone is impersonating you that is uncool you are always fair with everyone.