Well, I share his experience because we obviously share a lot of the same friends, but I have not changed my position.
—Sec. of State Hillary Clinton, who’s won praise for addressing that thing in Uganda and taping an It Gets Better video and celebrating gay pride with the State Department and extending benefits to her gay minions’ partners, has not changed her mind on whether you should be able to marry — as her husband Bill has. When Bill revealed in September that he’s come around on same-sex marriage (at least the state level), we called for him to make things right by going balls to lobby others in positions of power to support LGBT equality. Evidently the bedroom is still a cold place. [via]
dvlaries
Thank you for the reassurance that you would have proven just as useless as Obama, if we’d have gotten you instead of him.
christopher di spirito
I never really understood why so many queens rallied around the Borg Queen in the 2008 presidential election.
The Borg Queen is far more to the right than is President Obama on a whole host of issues. She’s a conservative Democrat and even time hasn’t changed her view on gay marriage.
I guess a lot of gay men need a surrogate mother figure like the HRC’s Joe Solmonese. That pat on the head and hearing, “You’re a good boy,” carries weight. Even when you’re 45 years old.
AlterPride Project
At least I have to give her props that she holds to her convictions; that is a sign of strength and courage (and everyone even politicians have the right to their opinions as long as they represent their constituents).
And personally I think marriage equality is still a low priority in the grand scheme of LGBT issues, so her opinion on this matter hardly phases me.
kayla
Why is this news?? She went all the way to Australia to assure them she still was against teh gheys marrying, just a few weeks ago!!
kayla
@AlterPride Project: Would you give segregationists the same credit for holding to their views that the lesser races shouldn’t be allowed in their midst?? What about Skinheads who’ve had the courage to hold to their conviction that Jews are the spawn of Satan, and should be exterminated, do they get credit??
MCH
Everyone keeps jumping on her statements as though they are proof she would be the same as Obama, or justification for the Obama-worship during the primaries. Sorry, but as a member of his administration now, she’s expected to tow the line, no matter what her views are. So I don’t expect to hear anything different from her than from Obama. Were she elected, perhaps she could voice different views or perhaps she would have the same ones…we’ll never know.
justiceontherocks
Kayla makes some excellent points here. Let me add that considering the huge number of legal rights that are tied to marriage, it is by any standard a very important issue.
Cam
And another politician proves that they will say or do whatever they think they need to, if it keeps the status quo smooth.
I think the most irritating part of it is that if what Bill and Hillary have is supposedly a “Traditional” marriage, then traditional marriage is surly some kind of joke.
kayla
@MCH: Now you’re gonna blame Obama for Hillary’s position on gay marriage??? This is the exact same thing she said during the primaries!! Hold Obama responsible for his own position, not anyone else’s. Do you really think that if Hillary said gays should be allowed to be married she’d get in trouble with the administration?? Please…. It’s not like she’s the Attorney General, her job is Foreign Policy, so I fail to see how this would compromise her ability to carry out the administration’s policy overseas.
AlterPride Project
@kayla: Pardon me, but there is no need to put words into my mouth.
Where did I infer that racism, anti-Semitism, hate crimes, or even genocide are in any way related to marriage equality? I’m insulted at the mere suggestion. Marriage is NOT the same as providing equal education, welfare, healthcare, employment, housing, freedom of speech, and basic civil liberties to individuals. Yes, marriage provides many important rights, but not rights that are absolutely essential to one’s inherent livelihood and well-being.
–Randall
MCH
@Kayla: you fail to see how a former primary adversary within the administration expressing contrary views might be a problem?!? Yes I really think she’d be in trouble expressing ANY views different from her boss, and the press would be all over it. I hold Obama responsible for his whole administration’s position. Has anyone from the administration, regardless of role, come out in support of gay marriage? no. because, no matter their role, you don’t contradict your boss. I agree that Hilary said the same thing during the primaries, I just think it’s impossible to know what she would say or think now, especially in the context of her husband’s changed views.
AlterPride Project
@kayla: PS. There is no such thing as gay marriage, it is “marriage equality.” Why should marriage be a right only reserved for straight or gay people?
–Randall
Cam
@AlterPride Project:
No, actually Marriage has been defined by the Supreme Court, especially in the Loving v. Va. case as a basic human right. I can’t think of a MORE invasive or destructive denial of rights than to actually tell somebody who they can love.
Telling me I can’t have this apartment is horrible, but I can find another apartment. Telling me that the person I have chosen to spend my life with cannot be the person I spend my life with is a much deeper denial of a persons humanity and human rights.
the crustybastard
Yeah, Hillary — your marriage is something so very unique and special; a real model for the generations to come.
Fuck you, bigot.
bruce
Dear Hillary,
You still believe in sticking by your sleazy, philandering husband. Nuff said.
Now off to check up on him, honey. He could be dallying with that blonde up in Canada.
AlterPride Project
Good point, but I think a far more destructive denial of rights is tell somebody who they ARE.
I would argue discrimination on the basis of gender identity or mental disability is even a deeper denial of a person’s humanity. Yet all of these people still struggle with discrimination because of loopholes in our legal system. The Matthew Shepard Act and Mental Health Parity Act were merely stepping stones, but they were not effectively designed to curtail discrimination. Even many perfectly healthy sexual orientations are still listed as paraphilias in the DSM-IV, and thus are a classified as a “clinical disability”.
So yes, marriage is important. But being able to love yourself is always the first and foremost human right in my opinion.
–Randlal
justiceontherocks
@Randlal – “being able to love yourself” is not the responsibility of government. The bundle of rights that come with legally recognizes marriage is the responsibility of government. Render unto Caesar and all that stuff.
SteveC
Oh I fully expect Obama and Hillary to flip flop on this as soon as his presidency ends.
They are slimy politicians who will (re)discover their support for equality just as soon as it is too late to do anything about it (see Bill Clinton; Laura Bush).
AlterPride Project
@justiceontherocks: I was not speaking literally of being able to love yourself. It was a followup to the post by Cam, who asserted that denial marriage is analogous to the government telling somebody who they can love.
If that metaphor is confusing: It is the responsibility of the government to provide for equal civil rights to individuals without discrimination on the basis of mental disability or gender identity.
–Randall
Britney
I expect Obama to flip on this if he is reelected.
He already said his views are “evolving” right?
Hilary though… if you’re still holding out for the presidency..
Tyler
While I can appreciate the ease of attacking someone for a sound bite, I think it is incredibly counterproductive to attack Sec. Clinton for not supporting gay rights. Some of the personal attacks on Sec. Clinton made me wonder if I had stumbled upon the Fox News website or something of that nature. The article from which this selection was pulled follows this quote by stating that she didn’t elaborate on exactly what her position is, other than that it hasn’t changed (since her Presidential run? Since she started as Sec of State? Since 2010? No elaboration). While in the role of Sec of State, it is expected that positions not be take on domestic issues which are controversial. Taking positions (like promoting same sex marriage) could interfere with her ability to continue dialogue with all leaders around the world. This is especially true when ongoing communication in the Middle East is vital. It has been shocking enough, by political standards, the aggressive steps Sec Clinton has taken to advance gay rights around the world. Remember, she is the one that declared from the State Department during a Pride speech “Gay rights are human rights and human rights are gay rights.”
Yes, I too would love for Sec. Clinton to advocate for same sex marriage rights. What we are forgetting, however, is that Sec. Clinton’s role deals with foreign diplomacy. Her work relies on her ability to maintain dialogue with foreign leaders that may shy away from the US if it is politically dangerous to be seen with a “radical” representative of the country. Still, she has chosen to focus on stopping nations from allowing the legal killing, beating, and imprisonment of persons for his/her sexual orientation. It is beyond frustrating as a gay person that I am not allowed to legally marry in my country. What is often lost is the perspective of where we stand in the world compared to other LGBT. We are lifetimes away. Is that good enough? Absolutely not. But lets not forget. I hope that when Sec Clinton finishes her role as Sec of State, she takes an active role in domestic policy, including same sex marriage rights. I expect that she will. Lets not tar and feather someone that truly is one of our greatest allies. Read the latest issue of The Advocate. There is a reason that she is on the cover being celebrated.
I am personally embarrassed by the repugnant comments on the personal life of Sec. Clinton. Is this who we are? Is this what we want to be? Catty comments? Lets promote stereotypes rather than participating in valuable conversations about our leaders. School yard bullying? By participating in that kind of name-calling, you are no better than the bullies that cause gay youth to kill themselves. Congratulations. Grow up and contribute to the cause rather than being part of the problem.
ewe
And that is why she is not and will not ever be President. Oh, and fuck you too Hilary Cunton.
ewe
@Tyler: No you stumbled upon commenters who do not wish to be second class citizens asshole.
ewe
@Tyler: The cause, the problem? Oh please enlighten us all while you grovel bent over to those who are discriminating against LGBT people.
ewe
I prefer court rulings to “evolve” instead of waiting for politicians.
Jesus Christ Almighty
@Tyler:
How sweet that you’re content to be something less than legally human so Hillary can be more effective at her job. I’m sure she’s just super-duper grateful for your sacrifice. “Peace for our time,” and all that, right?
On the other hand, there are those of us who actually believe “gay rights are human rights and human rights are gay rights,” and don’t just casually lie about it in front of gay audiences for the momentary opportunity to bask in their adulation.
the crustybastard
@Tyler:
How sweet that you’re content to be something less than legally human so Hillary can be more effective at her job. I’m sure she’s just super-duper grateful for your sacrifice. “Peace for our time,” and all that, right?
On the other hand, there are those of us who actually believe “gay rights are human rights and human rights are gay rights,” and don’t just casually lie about it in front of gay audiences for the momentary opportunity to bask in their adulation.
justiceontherocks
let’s not be so quick to give Hillary a pass on this because she is part of an administration. While VP – the loathsome Dick Cheney expressed his belief that DADT was an old chestnut that should go away, and he did that despite the president’s position to the contrary.
Her position has always been separate but equal. That was not good enough for Black Americans and it’s not good enough for gay Americans.
Tyler
@ewe I am willing to bet that Sec Clinton has done more to forward the rights of LGBT than you have sitting behind your computer calling people assholes.
This isn’t about being a second class citizen, which I know both you and I are in the eyes of the law. This is about directing your energy to the proper channels rather than frantically typing aggressive statements towards someone that is not involved in domestic policy per the terms of her current position.
Maybe rather than attacking someone that is not in a position to make changes to laws herself you should be outraged at those who do have the ability to make changes. Sec Clinton, I think, is challenging the global perspective on LGBT persons and rights. I fully support putting the heat on Pres. Obama, Democrats and Republicans in the House and Senate, as well as state and local representatives to make changes within our borders. You can call her as many names as you want and attempt to publicly shame her for her relationships and the decisions she makes, but know that you are doing precisely what the bullies we say we are unified against do to LGBT from the school yard to the grave.
It is easy to sling mud at Sec. Clinton. Obviously, that has been demonstrated on this page. I stand by my words. Be a part of the solution, not a part of the problem. You are using bullying tactics to try to quash my take on the situation. My opinion is valid. My points are valid. I am valid.
WillBFair
It’s getting more and more difficult to talk to the uneducated masses. But let’s try again.
News flash: the public are sentimental about maarraige but support domestic partnership. This is a huge concession for which we should be dancing in the streets. Instead, by refusing to compromise, we chose a path that’ll set us back a few more years. It’s typical of the self righteous, self destructive crowd that controls gay strategy.
Btw, Hillary is a politician, as is the President and the Vice President. And guess what. They can read opinion polls, something the mainstream gay world has not learned how to do.
Now back to the hypercritical bull—- about that demon in a dress, Hillary Clinton.
justiceontherocks
@WillBFair – Condescending and self-righteous posts like yours alienate people. Especially when they are full of spelling, syntax and grammatical errors.
You have an opinion about what is good strategy. many very thoughtful and intelligent people do not agree with you. To them you offer insults, not reason.
Now go to the back of the bus and leave the grown-ups alone.
Mack Robertson
Of course, Hillary is running for President. She sees our votes as being unnecessary to her campaign. By supporting gay marriage, she feels she would lose the election. I actually believe she secretly supports it, but she is too cowardly to state it. She certainly doesn’t belong in PROFILES IN COURAGE. Also, as much as I hate to admit it, she is too politically savvy to support gay marriage now. However, there is no doubt, in my mind, gay marriage is inevitable. There are young gay people who will undoubtedly see it in their lifetime. IF the courts uphold the laws of the country, it will come sooner than later.
ewe
@WillBFair:Do not expect those that are on the receiving end of this hate to engage you or anyone in civil debate. Your bullshit is lofy fantasy for those that are not effected.
ewe
@Tyler: You are willing to give the benefit of doubt to a lot of people who are denying you the same rights they enjoy and then go attacking me for using words by attempting to dismiss me as not doing anything for LGBTQ people.
This is about confronting the discriminatory statement and sentiments of the United States Secretary of State Hillary Clinton not some Westboro Baptist fuck on a corner with a poster.
Maybe you should attempt to practice what you fucking preach. Clinton is challenging NOBODY by saying same sex marriage is against her own moral code. You are an idiot. Fuck you and your endless rationale because it’s “politics as usual.” I did not call her names. I said fuck her the way she is saying fuck gay people. Try to sell your crap about the bullied becoming the aggressor to somebody else you can silence. That’s like blaming victims of rape or slaves for being strung up in a tree. I, too, am sticking to my words and you still sound like an asshole to me. Yes darling, your feelings may be valid but it does not make them fact.
ewe
Anyone who gives Clinton credit for saying these statements that promote inequality because they believe she really doesn’t feel this way but for the fact she is interested in being president is FUCKED UP and into self sabotage.
ewe
If someone said that heterosexuals should not be permitted to marry whom they choose they would be laughed out of reality but it seems perfectly ok for our government representatives and some flipped out gay wankers to say that homosexuals should not be permitted to marry someone they choose.
ewe
@Tyler: Hey Girl, you forgot to mention gODD which is always the last defense of homophobes when all else fails.
Tyler
@ewe Waiting for any sort of a point or valid argument from you. So far you have proven that you can call people names and you like swear words. Good job.
The rape victim and slave comment is beyond ridiculous, you and I both know. Rape victims aren’t raping others and then saying that they have the right to because they were raped. Those that were lynched are not lynching people and saying they have the right to because they, themselves, were lynched. If any comparison is valid, it is torture. We should not, as Americans, be torturing for information and justifying it by saying that Americans have been tortured. We are better than that. We should be holding ourselves to a higher standard.
I am by no means saying that Secretary Clinton is perfect, or that I agree with all of her positions. I am, however, saying that she has done many things to help. Her changes to the abilities of State Department employees to travel and obtain visas for same sex families is something that previously seemed unimaginable. Transgendered persons no longer require medical documentation of a sex change in order to receive a passport reflecting their accurate gender. Passport forms and foreign born American children forms no longer have spots designating “Mother” and “Father”, instead there are now gender neutral spaces to make it easier for same sex couples to travel with their children. Lets not lose grasp of how huge these changes are. Do you think this would have happened when the State Department was run by Sec Rice? Sec Powell? Heck, even Sec Albright?
Are these changes ENOUGH? NO. But anyone that says Sec. Clinton has done nothing is failing to look at the facts.
http://www.advocate.com/Print_Issue/Cover_Stories/Madam_Secretary/
GregorVonK
She continues to play both ends against the middle, but this is no surprise. She MAY still have dreams of becomining pres. one day (even tho’ the emerging consensus is that she’s getting too old). She’s already come out in favor of civil unions (and, if I’m not mistaken on a FED level) and that may be as far as she feels she can safely go, politically. It’s cynical, but it’s how it’s done still. Presidential candidates (prospective) may well be the LAST people anyone should turn to for support on marriage equality. Also, as someone whose OWN sexual orientation has been the topic of some speculation, she may feel the need to distance herself from issue in order to quell such rumors. And, no, I’m not saying that to be “catty,” I’m saying it because pols who have had to contend w/ such rumors as well as those who really WERE closeted have a tendency to NOT be our best friends.
Franky
I don’t give her a pass on this. Yeah, it’s probably political. But, that means she has no problem throwing us under the bus for votes or to not risk her popularity. She isn’t standing up for what’s right, and potentially not standing up for her true beliefs. That shows a lack of integrity I certainly do not respect. People like Hillary say they are our friends, but it’s lip service ultimately. Time to kick them to the curb and understand, that you’re either with us, or you’re not.
christopher di spirito
When the Borg Queen runs for president in 2012 or 2016, she will make appearances at all the right events, pose for pictures and sign autographs.
Some of those appearances with be with her far more pro-gay kid, and philandering husband. Predictably, the gays will cheer her on and rally around their surrogate mommy.
At the end of the day, the Borg Queen likes our money, our energy and our vote but she will throw us under the bus when it comes to marriage equality.
In any event, I sick and tired of these political dynasties. You can rest assured, Jebby Bush’s son, George P. Bush, from Florida and who is very good looking, is the next Bush to go national and the gays will vote for him because “he’s hot.”
Just like they voted for for Scott Brown in Massachusetts.
ewe
@Tyler: If you don’t get it by now, you never will. You are defending Clinton who essentially is name calling but you don’t have a problem with that. You stupid piece of shit self though thinks it is a better strategy to put me down. The higher standard i hold is equality dipshit. Your either or, good evil, yes no, this or that bullshit is not worth addressing other than to tell you to fuck off. If you can’t tell by now, i am dismissing your sorry ass and illogical nonsense because you are definitely a douchebag.
ewe
@ewe: I had to say what i said to you because your acceptance of this even if you think it is meeting someone half way is completely fucked up. You use a tired argument regarding the best of the worst scenario. That evil cunt needs to learn that she cannot say homophobic rotten shit about our right to exactly what heterosexuals enjoy. Everything you have to say that contradicts that is just more fucking noise. She did not have to say that. She could have chosen to tell the truth and the truth is “being gay is a non issue and gay people deserve the same rights as straight people.” She chose to spit on YOU. Stop apologizing for her.
Jojo The Boyfaced Dog.
As soon as she stops having any further political ambitions, I expect her to “change her mind”. Much like her husband.
John
I like Sec. Clinton all this tell me is that she is running for office sometime in the future.I just find it crazy that some of you will defend here but bash President Obama for the same thing.I would like you guys to think about thin next time you say President Obama is bad.
disco lives
Miss California says no offense, but she “prefers” opposite (sex) marriage and she is called a “dumb bitch.”
Over a year later, Hillary Rodham Clinton says she is opposed to same-sex marriage and she gets graced on the cover of the Advocate.
More hypocrisy from the gay establishment.
AJ
I don’t care what politicians SAY, I care about what they DO!!! And as someone working for the State Department, I can say that she has done everything that she can do for the gays in the State Department, within her limits..AND she did it quickly!!!
How many times have you heard pro-gay politicians(elected or not elected) say how much they will do for us??? A couple, a few, a lot!?!? But no one in America has DONE as much as Hillary has! Yet!
ewe
Her words are no different than religious institutions that choose to persecute gay people in America and beyond. All packaged in the most concerned and loving of ways. Clinton is a hypocrite. She is a staunch democrat. She is not running for president if Obama is in the race. She is feeling the waters so that Obama can come out and repeat the same fucking thing again during his campaign. Although remember, that in this great modern momentum we live in, our generation can say that we’re all evolving to any accoutability we don’t want to face up to.