I believe Islam, Christianity and heterosexuality are responsible for almost all of the homophobia in the world. They need to be held accountable, and by force of law or military if necessary. No punishment is too extreme for these scum.

Leave Hillary Clinton the fuck alone. She’s put up with enough trash from Hillary Haters, and the buck stops with the president. She’s not in charge.

Just in case you forget I’ll probably remind you again in the future when there are a number of other posters around.

I’m sure anyone reading this thread would have a pretty good idea of what is actually going on.

You’ll have to do a bit better than just steal my name to make anyone actually think it is me talking.

Now I know why you have to register fake names and impersonate others and then deny it like a coward.
You don’t seem to be able to hold your own in a logical discussion with real people.

Am I out of line? Go ahead, report me.

ROTFL See here, you goddamn moonbat, I didn’t impersonate you. I didn’t have a bag full of modeling glue and the bad hair piece to do it with, anyway, so obviously I couldn’t have.

And the two are mutually exclusive.

And it’s odd you didn’t support the invasion then, yet you are calling for military action (extermination, actually) to prevent further spread of fundamentalism.

I wasn’t making fun of the twelve year old who’s likely dead now. It may have been tasteless, but it’s not that tasteless. As I recall, there’s a picture directly above that one that I was referring.

I don’t like sex trade workers, you’re right. Transsexuals are fine by me. It wasn’t a judgment call, really. But this is.

You don’t think, period. The spread of fundamentalism was helped more by Iran than the u.s. and britain.

I simply replied by saying the U.S. and Britain actually helped the spread of fundamentalism when they invaded Iraq. I don’t think you’ll be helping matters if you destabilize another country, and I don’t think you have the resources.

Wow. You don’t like transsexuals or sex trade workers, do you?

I’d say it was the work a kindergarten child, actually. But really, you did it.

You registered an all-caps version of my handle to impersonate me. If I am wrong feel free to report me to admin.

For clarification on what is meant by LDTW, a photo at the top of the page is provided.

As I said, it’s self evident what is meant by that. Islamic theocracies aren’t going to change for the better until they’re forced to, and if they dare attempt to expand their toxic society and repulsive ethic outside of the borders of their own countries, they should be exterminated with extreme prejudice.

And how dare you suggest that I stole your handle. I did no such thing. If someone did, that someone’s a limp dicked tranny whore.

I guess you’re not going to clarify what you meant by “exterminate” and forcing at the barrel of a gun, are you?

But tell me, do you regularly steal people’s handles when you’re losing an argument and need a quick diversion, or am I just getting special treatment?

So it’s to be assumed that you don’t think a country that brutally subjugates women due to the tenets of sharia law and condones and demands that men beat their wives, and that women are forced to cover themselves completely (the real hilariously unethical mockery of basic reasoning skills is when a bigoted cultural relativist argues that this isn’t a product of sexism), and tortures and executes homosexuals isn’t more primitive in which such demands are illegal?

I wonder who could have done that.

I don’t know where your ancestors came from, but the Persians were developing algebra, astronomy, chemistry, medicine and dentistry around 700 AD. My European ancestors were doing nothing so advanced at that time. They didn’t even know how to build chimneys yet.

And yes, I thought your statement was obvious too, yet you tell me I am mistaken and will not explain how, nor will you expand on your words.

Guess we’re at a stalemate.

Really, douchenozzle? And what makes you think I post for impaired lames like you?

I have had it with your inane bickering. Every day, on nearly every topic you just go on and on. No one really cares what you think.

So by your reasoning, american imperialism in Iran excuses the execution of gay there now. Once again, you didn’t understand what I wrote. I have difficulty believing that English was your first language.

And I think what I meant by those statements is obvious.

@TANK:
…and then try to hide behind obtuse pseudologic.

Fine.

“The only way that they will change is at the barrel of a gun”

“There’s nothing one can do except exterminate with extreme prejudice when it gets to be a problem outside of that country”

Did you intend these statements to be metaphors for granting asylum and applying pressure through foreign aid conditions? If not, what do you mean by them?

No, you didn’t understand what was written. Read it again, and respond to what was written.

Actually invasion and political interference (overt and covert) has been the rule rather than the exception in that part of the world.

And I think I understood the passage. I’d just like to know by what means, with what resources, and on whose territory you think it should be done?

Frankly I think the west is busy already trying to protest the relationships is sort of still has (nuclear Pakistan) that opening another front.

Another strawman. I have no interest in correcting your misapprehension of the clear wording of the quoted passage, but the last clause should clue you in.

That’s nice. Just what exactly do you mean and how do you propose to exterminate them? If you’re not going to invade their countries whose countries will you be conducting this little operation in?

I also wonder where you plan to get the resources and funds. Mass murder is a very big job, and usually it doesn’t work. And last time I checked you guys were a little bit short of cash down there.

Also, I seem to remember you ALREADY invaded Iraq, except that plan backfired and allowed the religious extremists to gain power where they had none before.

For your information those primitives (as you call them) in Iran elected a government in the 1950s that started to take control of their own economy. The U.S. overthrew them and installed the Shah’s dictatorship, which ultimately led to control by the Mullahs.

Afghanistan was not as stable, but it did have a fledgeling democracy shortly before the Soviets invaded.

So yes, there are a lot of backwards tribal customs there (we have our fair share of them here too). The fact is that developed countries like to keep them that way. It only becomes a problem when a bit of that rough justice gets turned in our direction.

The root problem is toxic religious faith (in this case, Islam), but it’s overrun several countries, and it’s not going to change (did you hear ahmadinejad’s speech to the u.n. racism summit?) There’s nothing one can do except exterminate with extreme prejudice when it gets to be a problem outside of that country (and it will be). I mean, we’re up in arms about gays in iraq (as we should be), but the treatment of women is also a big problem for these primitives, and has been since…

Once again, the solution is to exterminate with extreme prejudice, not win minds or change hearts because that is not going to be possible. As to this, fast track asylums and impose stipulations as the price of receiving aid.

Since you mentioned my name only a few minutes later, I suppose I should respond.

I was the one who noted that the Obama administration was allowing applications for asylum from gay Iraqis and has used the United Nations as a forum to nag. They have done it. They might not have done it in exactly the manner you would’ve liked. Maybe they did the press release during the Friday news dump. Maybe they were constrained by various Acts of Congress. Maybe Hillary Clinton or Susan Rice should have said “this” instead of “that.” But since none of these actions actually solves the underlying problem, the notion that the Obama team can “do more” to stop the extra-judicial killings is problematic.

None of these strategies are cures. They’re triage treatments at best. They are very narrow in scope. The administration can indeed do more of the same. But the disease – the root cause – is religious fervor and extremism in the Middle East. And the president has neither the unlimited amounts of money nor soldiers to deal with that in any real sense. Which is why he has to pick his fights carefully. He’s doing the best he can under very difficult circumstances. Media reports suggest his Secretary of State is doing the best she can under very difficult circumstances as well.

The constant vitriol from gays is just really perplexing. It has been non-stop “gay rage” since day one with these two. I don’t know what they’ve done to deserve it (other than refuse to commit political suicide by going full hog for same-sex marriage).

In terms of rewarding fundamentalist death squads, militias, and tribal chieftains with money and luxury goods, I believe the Democrats widely derided Bush when he first proposed it. They were right to do so. Not only is it merely triage, it is fairly costly triage. I think Afghanistan has proven that bribery can’t be a long-term solution.

Really, what gay rights needs in these places is a grass-roots change in opinion of the general population, which is not something that you can enforce from just the top down.

On the other hand, I say asylum is pragmatic (which it is, as we could use a fast track system over much more than Iraq. We should have enough combined political clout to force even places like Iran to offer those caught the chance to leave) but it wouldn’t really fix the problem. Who would be left in Iraq etc to fight the ignorance? It may save lives, but it would never combat the root problem.

I wish I had answer, but I don’t. I echo the calls for action, but I am not sure what action I’d like to see take place.

One thing we *can* do is fight as hard as we can for rights in our own countries: they should eventually see that it makes our societies more successful and dynamic than theirs, but this is the sloooow solution, and will not help the LGBT people of Iraq right now. Only thing I’m sure of: whatever resolution we try at the UN, China will surely stick a spoke in the wheels one way or another…

There is also the issue that right we (U.S. and Europe) still do not fully provide asylum like we should.

We could not be supporting people domestically like Rich Warren who gives moral support to those who engage in such human rights abuses abroad in places like Africa.

We could push for a UN resolution with teeth.

There are many things that could be done diplomatically, but wil not be done. The lie is how John of CA approaches. He sets up this fake strawman about military intervention and proceeds to argue against his fake argument.

“your overly strong focus on reality”

As opposed to having Tinkerbelle call for Peter Pan and the lost boys? Or maybe Superman perhaps? I look forward to hearing more of your fantasy solutions to America’s diplomatic impasses. I’ll take the grudging, tacit acknowledgment that I’m behaving rationally as a compliment.

I believe we should continue to denounce these murders at the proper forums for such declarations (namely, the United Nations). I believe we should grant asylum to any gay person in Iraq who wants to leave. That’s within our power to do. And it will not endanger any American lives. Beyond that, I don’t think there’s much we can do without some sort of massive – and potentially deadly – intervention. I continue to see that “nuclear option” as ill advised.

Of course, this angry reaction to unpleasant realities isn’t anything new.

A few years ago, I suggested that I would be happy to see a “gender identity” inclusive ENDA if someone could show me where they’re going to get 218 votes. I was greeted with the usual flurry of “you’re a horrible person” and “fuck you.” Nobody did bother to post a list of those 218 imaginary supporters of transgendered rights in the 110th Congress though. Abandoning the compromise ENDA in 2007 was not the right decision. Something is better than nothing. And if our precious morality sinks ENDA again this year, then we can only blame ourselves for not understanding that those who demand perfection from inherently flawed political processes always lose.

Power was handed back to Iraqi administration, so they can ignore anything the USA chooses to say if they so wish. I’m not sure that just *words* will do anything of any practical use.

What other options do we have? Bribery? Re-invade (god forbid!)? Fast-track asylum for LGBT Iraqis?