Hillary Clinton‘s campaign lives again!
The Senator from New York tidily won a victory in today’s Pennsylvania primary. Only about 85% of the votes have been counted, but early results give Clinton 55% over rival Barack Obama‘s 45%. That’s a ten point victory and more than enough to fuel Clinton’s continuation.
The Democratic candidate made sure to highlight said continuation in her victory speech, telling voters that the “tide is turning.”
Some counted me out and said to drop out, but the American people don’t quit. And they deserve a president who doesn’t quit, either.
…
Because of you, the tide is turning.
Our sinking economy dominated Pennsylvanians’ electoral concerns, which helps explain why blue-collar voters largely leaned toward Clinton.
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
…Clinton won support from two of three whites without college degrees, and about the same number of whites from families earning under $50,000 a year, according to preliminary figures from exit polls of voters conducted for The Associated Press and the television networks. This was one of her stronger performances of the year with these groups, compared to prior competitive Democratic primaries.
Men also seemed to favor the former First Lady. Meanwhile, Obama won over the black and affluent populations. And, not surprisingly, took the majority of newly registered voters.
Clinton used her victory speech to reinvigorate her campaign, but a tired seeming Obama, speaking to an equally sleepy crowd in Indiana, reminded Democrats what the election’s all about: a party victory. He also spent much of his time blasting John McCain, the Republican nominee. Be sure, however, that Obama talked himself up, as well. Unfortunately his message fell a bit short. We’ll have more on that one tomorrow (stay tuned!).
As Obama acquiesced and paid Clinton his respects, Mrs. Clinton took a moment to criticize her competitor: “He broke every spending record in this state trying to knock us out of this race…Well, the people of Pennsylvania had other ideas tonight.” They sure did. And now Clinton and Obama’s campaigns are dreaming up new ideas on how to win the next primaries, Indiana and North Carolina, which hold their contests on May 6th.
rickroberts
What say you, Obamatards? Why can’t your Messiah close the deal? I thought he knew “how to heal our broken souls?” Was it because Hillary was “downright mean?” Poor baby just wanted to eat his waffle, and that pesky reporter had the temerity to ask him a foreign policy question.
Jesse
She might have gained 15 delegates over Obama on this one, wow. With 158 delegates up for grabs, this made a bb pellet sized ding in Obama’s lead. If only Barrack Obama’s grandaddy had worked in a lace mill in Scranton. If only his daddy had taken him hunting in Wilkes-barre. If only he really understood working class Americans like Hillary Clinton does. She exemplifies “champion for the middle class and underprivileged.”
rickroberts
She is proving the case over and over again to superdelegates that Barack cannot win the constituencies we need for victory in the fall. Barack is McGovern without the military service.
Woof
He can’t win the big states, what does that say?
Afroguapo
“Obamatards? Messiah?” You still refuse to stand up and get out of the sandbox, dust yourself off and join us all back at the conference table for an adult conversation. It’s not a surprise that HRC was going to win PA but by how much. At one time it was predicted to be around 20% and he seemingly narrowed that down to 10%. Certainly, there was still some resentment and resonance over his “bitter” remarks, the debate lacked substance and seemed to focus primarily on divisive issues to make culturally conservative white people nervous (Weather Underground guy when Barack was 8 years old, Rev. Wright, flag lapels, etc.) Pennsylvania is the third or second OLDEST state in the Union (after Florida and West Virgina) so you’re not going to conceivably expect a bunch of old white people (60+) being gung-ho over BHO and would expect that there may be a tad xenophobia of a man who doesn’t wear flag pins on his lapel and has a strange sounding name. Hillary, despite being insanely wealthy, was able to flex and wax nostalgic on her downhome Scranton roots, her grandfather working in a lace factory, shooting with her “Pa” as a little girl on the range — It was Laura Engels Redux, her dad going to Penn State all made her familiar and immmediately regonizable to them (Reagan Democrats as they are called). So yes, it’s completely logical Rickroberts that Hillary would win this.
rickroberts
It’s intellectual elitism. It has nothing to do with wealth or privilege. I don’t think most people would call FDR an elitist.
I call you Obamatards to make a point. You follow him with blinders on. He can do no wrong in your minds. You denigrate Hillary’s voters in PA, but if I denigrate Barack’s voters in NC, you fuckers will start screaming racist again. Well, you know what? That dog won’t hunt anymore. Put it away.
The Weather Underground is much more than something that happened when BO was 8 years old. Ayers hosted a fundraiser at his home to launch BO’s senate campaign. Barack should know better than to associate himself with people like that. And Rezko. And Wright.
So go ahead and nominate this huckster if you like. I am keeping a long, long list of absolutely stupid fuckers for my I-told-you-so list when BO goes down to a historic loss in November. But rejoice! You will have had your black candidate! Whoopee!
Jesse
It is a mathematical impossibility for Hillary Clinton to come out of the remainin primary races ahead of Obama in pledged delegates. To let super delegates decide the nominee in a way that negates the will of the voters or to let Hillary cut deals in a back room spells disaster. If Hillary Clinton wins the nomination, John McCain will be president.
And since when does someone start claiming to have won elections in states where the elections did not count and the competitor was not on the ballet? That is completely dishonorable. I have a great deal of respect for her tenacity, but Hillary would claw her own daughter’s eyes out to be president and it is more about being power hungry than it is about a genuine desire to help anyone other than herself. She is a polished politician, who started laying the groundwork for this campaign while her husband was in office. Of course she’s gonna fight til she can’t fight any more. After all, we owe this to her.
hells kitchen guy
I’m increasingly thinking neither of these candidates can win in November. We’d better get used to “President McCain,” BIG sigh!
M Shane
Interestingly she didn’t mention that she didn’t have to spend money on all of the propaganda spun by right wing FOX(Bush’s) network in her candidacy.
Several important things happened apart from her wasting more time destroying the republican party in her wake of viscious diatribes which even the Times commented strongly about. It should be noted that the people who elected her were the “reagan democrats” whatever the fuck that is. (a contradiction in terms). It mearly asserts the fact which we suspect that she is a Republican, like Bill. It’s a sad object lesson regarding the ignorance of the working class in Pennsylvania that they would vote for the wife of the man who has done the most in history to take their jobs. One thing there is that Obama tells the truth and he’s right on about thier capability to vote.
More than anything, as Obama said, as most everyone knows,the future of the party is up for grabs; whether it will remain distinct from the rebublican party or not. We will have a one party system if she wins
No one takes note of the fact that all of the liberal politicians , writers and intellectuals have lined up behind Obama. Clinton will destroy the party., if given the chance, her unharnessed selfishness has already corruped public opinion of their being any semlance of fair play. Comming into the election, before her attacks against Obama, 58% of the voters were undecided.
I don’t know where the reportage of his speach in Indiana bing lacklustere, but this is the only site that I have seen it at.
If Clinton desroys the Democratic party and what uit stands for , the educated, liberal and young voters may be forced into forming a truly liberal party.
ChristopherM
Rick, you might want to get your blood pressure checked.
rickroberts
Jesse, superdelegates are there to save us from ourselves in a sense. The delegates from FL & MI will count if the rules committee says says they count. If you don’t like the process, work to change it. Many BO delegates are from caucuses, not exactly a representative forum.
Watch it with the references to clawing eyes. You sound like a sexist. You think BO isn’t as ambitious as she? Grow up. It takes a mighty large ego to think you can be President of the United States.
I want a fighter.
rickroberts
Dude, my blood pressure is fine. I’m on top of the world this morning! Just having fun twisting the knife in the side of Obama’s disciples.
Mr C
She won’t win Indiana, her political machine is not the same there as in PA. The gov the mayor of PA knew how to play tricks, a lot of voters were not able to vote because all the machines were broken for hours, the had to leave.
Those who switched party line could not vote because of some technicalities(they were unafilliated not registered democrats) , people don’t you see what happened.!!!!!!Had she won by 5 points only would she have been under great pressure to drop out. The dem party will get rid of her in the near future , she is damaging the democratic brand, by enlisting the right wing to fight her fellow democratic.
She has no moral, how could she ask the guy who help her Husband impeachment , for his endorsement? She crossed the line with me, it shows she does not even care about Bill and those who hurted him. If your husband enemy is your friend you are the worse traitor on earth. I have no respect for her, that detail blew me away.
Sean Hannity feds the questions against Obama through one of Clinton ex-staffer!!!!!!!!!!! and her crew praises foxnews for their fair coverage,go figure?
Now the one who created the willie horton ad against dukakis is working for her? I’m ashamed to have liked HRC and her husband in the past. This rift will never heal, she went to far, not knowing that her political career is now in jeopardy.
SIMPLY PUT IT BLUNTLY THAT BITCH ISN’T WINNING PERIOD!
And if they give it to her without the Obama supporters come Nov.
THE BITCH STILL DOESN’T WIN
in it’s simplest form.
And RickRoberts, Black or not you Racist Pig.
That BITCH won’t get in and the Black voters will make sure of that! We count also okay queen!
I don’t need
“I told you so” I’m telling you NOW!
BITCH IS TOAST!
M Shane
Correction for 9 (above
Clinton is “destroying the Democratic(not Republican) party in the wake…”
Afroguapo
Rick, do you honestly think that this is about Barack being black — the reason why people like myself support him over Hillary? Alan Keyes was black and ran, so what. I was for Kucinich, a white guy from Ohio but he was too extreme for the U.S. populace. We all know Barack isn’t perfect but not sure if you and Leland can say the same about Hillary — you’re both seemingly transfixed by her. I honestly pity you more each day.
NY Times editorial
April 23, 2008
Editorial
The Low Road to Victory
The Pennsylvania campaign, which produced yet another inconclusive result on Tuesday, was even meaner, more vacuous, more desperate, and more filled with pandering than the mean, vacuous, desperate, pander-filled contests that preceded it.
Voters are getting tired of it; it is demeaning the political process; and it does not work. It is past time for Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton to acknowledge that the negativity, for which she is mostly responsible, does nothing but harm to her, her opponent, her party and the 2008 election.
If nothing else, self interest should push her in that direction. Mrs. Clinton did not get the big win in Pennsylvania that she needed to challenge the calculus of the Democratic race. It is true that Senator Barack Obama outspent her 2-to-1. But Mrs. Clinton and her advisers should mainly blame themselves, because, as the political operatives say, they went heavily negative and ended up squandering a good part of what was once a 20-point lead.
On the eve of this crucial primary, Mrs. Clinton became the first Democratic candidate to wave the bloody shirt of 9/11. A Clinton television ad — torn right from Karl Rove’s playbook — evoked the 1929 stock market crash, Pearl Harbor, the Cuban missile crisis, the cold war and the 9/11 attacks, complete with video of Osama bin Laden. “If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen,†the narrator intoned.
If that was supposed to bolster Mrs. Clinton’s argument that she is the better prepared to be president in a dangerous world, she sent the opposite message on Tuesday morning by declaring in an interview on ABC News that if Iran attacked Israel while she were president: “We would be able to totally obliterate them.â€
By staying on the attack and not engaging Mr. Obama on the substance of issues like terrorism, the economy and how to organize an orderly exit from Iraq, Mrs. Clinton does more than just turn off voters who don’t like negative campaigning. She undercuts the rationale for her candidacy that led this page and others to support her: that she is more qualified, right now, to be president than Mr. Obama.
Mr. Obama is not blameless when it comes to the negative and vapid nature of this campaign. He is increasingly rising to Mrs. Clinton’s bait, undercutting his own claims that he is offering a higher more inclusive form of politics. When she criticized his comments about “bitter†voters, Mr. Obama mocked her as an Annie Oakley wannabe. All that does is remind Americans who are on the fence about his relative youth and inexperience.
No matter what the high-priced political operatives (from both camps) may think, it is not a disadvantage that Mr. Obama and Mrs. Clinton share many of the same essential values and sensible policy prescriptions. It is their strength, and they are doing their best to make voters forget it. And if they think that only Democrats are paying attention to this spectacle, they’re wrong.
After seven years of George W. Bush’s failed with-us-or-against-us presidency, all American voters deserve to hear a nuanced debate — right now and through the general campaign — about how each candidate will combat terrorism, protect civil liberties, address the housing crisis and end the war in Iraq.
It is getting to be time for the superdelegates to do what the Democrats had in mind when they created superdelegates: settle a bloody race that cannot be won at the ballot box. Mrs. Clinton once had a big lead among the party elders, but has been steadily losing it, in large part because of her negative campaign. If she is ever to have a hope of persuading these most loyal of Democrats to come back to her side, let alone win over the larger body of voters, she has to call off the dogs.
rickroberts
Oh, here comes MrC with the multiple exclamation marks and misogyny. I love you, MrC. You make me so happy.
A misogynist calling me a racist. That’s rich, dude.
You’re ashamed of the only Democratic President since FDR to win successive terms? You like losing, don’t you? Let me know how that works out for you. I’ll stick with winners. They have a better chance of getting something done. Losers go off and work for Habitat for Humanity.
About BOs black supporters, like it or not, most of them live in states that no Democrat will carry, even if they vote 100% for him. Hillary is the only one who puts a single southern state in play: Arkansas.
Bwahahahaha!
Mr C
Right because the South is still racist and confederate and we don’t play a part in that.
I’m not mad I’m blunt
Without Black support she can’t win. And she won’t. For there is not enough white, or hispanics to close the gap in place of us and if you think so. Just let them make her the candidate and see for yourself.
Like I said
THE BITCH WILL NOT WIN! IN AUGUST OR NOVEMBER
Yeah I said it!
HA HA HA.
Thanks for admitting that America still carries Race as a #1 issue.
faghag
yayyy for Hillz.
LOVE HER.
rickroberts
MrC, you say she can’t win without Blacks. Blacks are 11 percent of the electorate, but they are concentrated in the South, states we won’t win anyway. She’ll get enough of them; don’t worry your little head. And the latte liberals will return to her because they will remember that they loved Bill in the 90s.
Hillary clobbered Barack among the traditional voting blocs that are critical to a Democratic victory: union households, women, Catholics, working class and downscale voters, and those who didn’t attend college. She did even better among these groups in PA than she did in Ohio, another must-win state for us. That us just reality, dude. Facts are stubborn things.
Hillary is smart as hell and tough as a junkyard dog.
Mr C
She has damaged things beyong repair and Like I said. She won’t win. You act like Blacks owe them something. We don’t owe thing a damn thing!
But trust me she won’t win. I’ll stake my life on that!
McCain will be the next President!
Unfortunately!
Mr C
She has damaged things beyong repair and Like I said. She won’t win. You act like Blacks owe them something. We don’t owe them a damn thing!
But trust me she won’t win. I’ll stake my life on that!
McCain will be the next President!
Unfortunately!
rickroberts
Poor, poor, MrC. Do you know nothing of the electoral college or the history of recent elections? Do you read any current polls? Barack is losing or within the margin of error to McCain in New Jersey, New York, Massachusetts, Missouri, Ohio, and Florida.
One or the other of us will get to say I told you so in November. We will have to revisit the question. You seem mad enough to run off and start your own nation. How did that work out last time you tried it? How’s Liberia doing?
Afroguapo
McCain will win if HRC or BHO supporters are so entrenched and obstinate that they don’t vote if their candidate doesn’t get the nomination or spitefully vote for McCain to defeat the democratic nominee. In the latter scenario, if one is that fired up, go vote for the Green Party candidate before you give your vote to McCain. I’m all for a heated debate, but as Citizen Greek or someone else once said, this is bringing out the UGLY and invectives in so many of you.
On another note, this is the type of stuff as to why Wright has been suspicious of the US Government.
http://www.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080414/NEWS/804140316/-1/NEWS16
Javier Mendez
Clinton won Pennsylvania for two key reasons: Only Democrats could vote in the primary, and the Keystone State electorate is dominated by the elderly, who are staunchly for Clinton.
Despite her claims of electability, Hillary has never done well among independent voters. And Obama usually loses the Democrats. Pennsylvania’s closed-primary rules gave her a key advantage.
Older voters are flocking to Clinton as fears mount of what Obama might do as president mount. But those under 45 – less focused, perhaps, on race – are moving toward Obama. Here, that split helped her.
Of the 50 states, only Florida has a higher over-65 proportion of its population. But there’s a key difference: Florida’s elderly moved there – Pennsylvania’s are the folks that are left after the young people moved away.
Pennsylvania Democrats, in other words, suffer from future shock. They welcome old, established ways and embrace dynasties happily because they are so familiar. (Look at the Bob Caseys – dad was governor, the son is senator.)
But don’t expect the open primaries of Indiana and North Carolina to behave like Pennsylvania’s geriatrics. Both states are younger, especially North Carolina, and independents can vote in each primary. (North Carolina is where a lot of the young people who fled Pennsylvania winters and job losses ended up).
Afroguapo
Uhm, Liberia’s probably faring as well as that Hillbilly patch from whence you came. Do you wear your Klansman ensemble to the White Party? It must look mighty fierce billowing in the wind as you dance and troll for whoever will have you. Work it.
Afroguapo
Astute commentary Mr. Mendez, see post #5.
rickroberts
The Repubs are rolling out ads in a press conference in NC today with more revelations of Barack’s unsavory associations. That will help Hill keep it close there. Nobody expects her to win NC because of the large black population.
Indiana is a real contest. Hillary has Evan Bayh, and the possibility of him as VP is tantalizing. Further, blacks are only 8.9 percent of the population there.
Dom
Hillary is delusional. She is screaming about her huge victory in PA (just like she crowed over her huge “victory” in Texas, accomplished by Republican Limbaugh crossovers, and which still ended up being a delegate win for Obama), not mentioning she blew a 20-26 point lead – with the support of nearly the ENTIRE Pennsylania Denmocratic machine, under the auspices of Gov. Rendell – and has bankrupted her campaign in the process. So why can’t Hillary close the deal? – the media uses that phrase against Obama, but they should be saying it about Hillary. She has all the supposed support and “experience” and electibility. How come she didn’t seal the nomination on Super tuesday like all the lame-ass pundits said she would? CNN and the rest of the media are trying to keep this alive but I know the truth: her campaign is through. I don’t care if she did raise $2.5M after this primary (almost enough to pay Mark Penn and his McCain-lovin’ firm) – Obama will raise more, and his campaign will now use everything in its power to finish her off. She has squandered everything on one primary win. She has alienated a huge amount of voters in the Democratic Party. She has won a less than double-digit victory in a state that she should have been able to practically ignore just a few weeks ago. She now needs to win EVERY upcoming primary with at least 68-70% of the delegate count, which can basically be done by machine-gunning every potential Obama voter. The only way Hillary can win the nomination is by stealing and intimidation, which will ruin her – and the Dems’ – chances in the GE against McSame. So go ahead, Hillary. Keep living in your little dream world. Get Edwards or whatever other person you can to try to help you out of the hole you have dug. Try denying your Iran remarks and your Iraq War vote and your deep and abiding love of John McCain and your insults to the hard working progressive base and NetRoots of the Democratic Party. I’ll just sit here and watch the meltdown. It will be quite fun watching the end of you and your husband’s political careers. The media and the Clinton campaign are also saying that she won by 10 points in order to keep the double-digit spin alive, but the figure of a lead of about 8.5 points is the correct one, verified by the Pennsylvania election website. I have never called Hillary a bitch, or used sexist remarks against her, which is more than I can say for the veiled racism of the Clinton campaign, especially by her husband – you know, America’s “first black president”. And if you think Hillary is a friend of the gay population, you’re dreaming. She’ll throw us under a bus in a heartbeat to get what she wants, just like her husband did with DADT and DOMA. And for a person who has such supposed support for us gays, she sure has a helluva hard time mentioning us at all – and Chelsea’s little bar crawl doesn’t cut it. So keep voting for these Rethugs in Dem clothing. She ended any support and love I once had for her.
rickroberts
Afro, you’d be surprised where I work. I won’t say the name here. It’s a very large internet search firm that starts with a G. You probably use it scores of times each day. I’m doing quite well, thank you very much. Hehe!
Jesse
Not meant in a sexist way at all. I would love a woman to be president. I think it is long overdue. This woman however, is the last one I would pick. She is slick, corrupt and Yes, she would claw her own daughter’s eyes out to become president.
I take insult to being called an Obamatard. You need to learn to make your point without insulting other people. I do not follow Obama or any leader blindly. They all have faults. I have gone to both of their websites. I have listened to most of their speeches. I have made an educated judgement based upon both facts and gut instincts.
I do not trust Hillary Clinton. I do not think she has the country’s best interest at heart. I think she is intelligent and very capable, but ultimately corrupt and bought. I think she will do whatever she can to become president. That does not mean she should be president.
Tom
If anything, this political contest and the contentious debate generated by it brings to mind the quote by Roy Rogers: “I am not a member of any organized party–I am a Democrat.”
After 8 years of the worst president in history, how the Democratic Party found itself in this mess is incomprehensible.
The choices are Hillary (with all her Bill Clinton and “bitch factor†baggage) and a black guy named Obama. And then like fools, we so-called Democrats tear each other to shreds over issues of race and gender, when there is only a miniscule of difference between the two candidates on most major issues. Could the opposing Party have scripted this any better?
So here we are calling each other names and talking over each other like we have all the answers from on high. While Karl Rove and his minions rub their wicked little hands and plot the next issue to throw in the pot so that we sit around squabbling and the country gets raped and screwed by Cheney & Company.
Are we really this intellectually and politically immature? It appears the sad answer is “yes.â€
But there is a simple solution to this fiasco. If you are truly a Democrat, committed to the highest ideals and traditions, then have a civil debate (meaning its ok to draw blood, but don’t destroy the unity we will need in November). Ultimately, the number one goal must be to win.
Afroguapo
Rick
I don’t care if you work for Google. George Bush went to Yale and Harvard but it still doesn’t negate the fact that he’s not bright by any stretch of the imagination. So, while you may work for the behemoth Google, it doesn’t change that you harbor some really repulsive views when it comes to matters of race — we’ve all read them. I’ve shared threads with a cross section of some of my friends (Asians, whites, hispanics, blacks) who don’t read Queerty and they resoundingly ask “What happened to that dude?” “what’s up with the racist white gays?” Google, being the maverick company is, I suggest you enroll in its sensititity training.
rickroberts
For the record, I don’t deny or acknowledge where I work. You brought it up, dude.
Afroguapo
+1 JESSE, if you say anything positive about Obama, you’re called an Obamatard (the opening line of this thread) or get told by Leland that you’re bent over for him. Not sure what’s up with all the angry, seething racist gays but it’s sad.
Afroguapo
I said from “whence you came”, not where you are as an adult — where products of our past. You’re from Arkansas as I’ve gleaned from previous posts and there’s no denying there are some deep seated issues you have regarding blacks given what I’ve read. Just a cursory reading proves that. As we say in the law, res ipsa loquitur.
rickroberts
By the way, guys, after last night, Hillary is ahead when MI & FL are counted, and they WILL be counted. For a party that lost in that 2000 electoral vs. popular fiasco, it would be insane to ignore the popular total.
Popular Vote (w/FL & MI)**
Obama: 14,973,720 47.4%
Clinton: 15,095,663 47.8%
Clinton +121,943 +0.4%
Afroguapo
we’re
rickroberts
Afro, Little Rock is quite a progressive, pretty little city. Have you been there? Take a road trip.
Afroguapo
I’ll take a road trip there as soon as you acknowledge that you are prone to saying some very incendiary, mean-spirited, racist statements in order to put people down or in their place, if they disagree with you or to galvanize support from your fellow haters. As Jesse aptly stated: “I take insult to being called an Obamatard. You need to learn to make your point without insulting other people. I do not follow Obama or any leader blindly. They all have faults. I have gone to both of their websites. I have listened to most of their speeches. I have made an educated judgement based upon both facts and gut instincts.” I am sure you don’t conduct yourself like this at Google, so would appreciate if you could exhibit a modicum of civility and courtesy within the confines of Queerty.
rickroberts
Afro, I will start that little self-immolation project when you display as much passion fighting misogyny as you do fighting racism.
Point taken on the incendiary and mean-spirited charge. I have a tendency to reach for the extreme to achieve the mean. I don’t concede to the racist charge. Show me the evidence, will you?
tofer david
javier menendez,
it is nice to see that dick morris is penning for you now. you cut and paste that from dick morris a fervent anti-hillary….he’s the former aide who got caught sucking the toes of a hooker.
Madonna's Boy
Rick Roberts…do you have Karl Rove posters on your wall? Do your friends call you “Turd Blossom”? Is your favorite show “Hannity & Colmes”? Get off the GOP talking points already and support the Democratic nominee regardless if it’s Barack or Hillary. Both are better over McCain, which is where our focus should be!
Matt
It’s completely absurd to count MI and FL in the popular vote total. Particularly MI, since Obama wasn’t even on the ballot. And the primary “popular vote” is a myth in the first place, as a number of caucuses don’t record their numbers, only percentages.
Also, Obama won the vast majority of newly-registered voters and those who switched from Independent or Republican to vote in the Pennsylvania primary. If we’re talking about who can win in November, that seems rather crucial.
(I will say I’ve been disappointed by Obama’s campaigning in the past week or so, particularly his awful attempt to convince everyone that he loves guns more than Clinton. Though I was much more disgusted by Clinton’s fear-mongering 9/11 ad.)
rickroberts
Matt, Barack removed his name in Michigan as a pandering gesture to NH & Iowa. Are we to blame that that he made a stupid move? Further, realizing his blunder, he made a concerted effort to encourage his voters to then vote uncommitted.
Michigan and Florida must count.
Afroguapo
Rick
You know what you said and others know it as well. I am not going to spend my time copying and pasting your racist rants. I’ve been on this site for like 3 months now and I’ve seen the race-baiting vitriol predominantly from you, Charley and Leland. It’s no wonder that you engender the most ire from blacks and fair-minded whites on this site. You somehow defend being a staunch feminist by being a not so closeted racist, go figure. I don’t denigrate anyone — women, gays, blacks, asians, hispanics, etc. to try to prove my point.
Matt
No, what he was doing was following the rules established by the DNC long before the primary. Something rather foreign to Hillary.
blackiemiko
Florida, yes, Michigan, no. Senator Obama’s name was not on the ballot.
If you count a state with someone’s name not on the ballot how can you call that a win.
I’m taking a break from all of this. I’m tired of the fighting and am loosing my passion behind politics.
I can tell you, that Hillary won my state, because of working class whites and senior citizens. However, a primary election is alot different than a general election. Hillary won the most conservative parts of the state, Obama won the most liberal parts. Either of them would carry Pennslyvania.
For all of these people screaming Hillary won Ohio, the Democrats are not going to win Ohio. Period. And if we bank all of our bucks one one state, with it’s electorial votes we will loose again. Hillary’s negatives are far too high. Poll after poll after poll shows they are way below 50%.
Unlike Hillary, Senator Obama won in states that it is possible a Democrat could take from the Republican’s this time; Colorado and Virginia. Just remember, there is a reason all of the people, in midwest, middle America are voting for Senator Obama. They are trying to send us a message. When November comes, if Hillary is the nominee, I will vote for her, but I will not contribute any of my time or money to help their campaign. I just will not have the passion behind it. I am sure many Clinton supporters feel the same way.
Just remember, as a gay American, one of the most important issues to us is the Supreme Court. We must put aside our differences and vote for the Democrat, as bad as they may be.
PS. Without the netroots, blogs and left leaning websites behind her, Hillary will have a very hard time getting the backing of the base. That my friend is where the money comes from. There is no denying that. Remember, Hillary’s own words were that they “gush money”.
seitan-on-a-stick
It’s the curse of the John Kerry Endorsement!! Barack outspent Hillary 3 to 1, still has the Media as his mistress, barely has sparred yet with Cranky McCain and the Superdelegates need to work out how best not to hand the Presidency to the GOP, especially if they dismiss Michigan and Florida Voters. Hillary is a fighter and we in New York know how she won over the most staunchest Anti-Hillary-azis to be elected our best Senator from New York twice (with Rebublican support) Barack just can’t get elected with more than 45% of the Electorate anymore because poor, white, Christian America feels alienated by Barack (His Anti-American Preacher, BitterGate Etc) He has got to pull a rabbit out of his ass to seal this deal as his recent skulkiness attests to. HKGuy is right and Obama will lose, unfortunately. Adversely, he is still the best choice for the Vice Presidency on a HRC-BO Dream Ticket. Keep Hope Alive!
Charley
Everything was going good for Obama until his big mouth spiritual advisor blurted out “No, no, no. God damned America”. Put a muzzle on that bastard before he comes up with something else that would hurt BO before Indiana and North Carolina. BO would do well to resign from that church.
Jesse
I think that Obama transcends party lines in ways we have not seen before. There is something really hopeful about it.
I come from a conservative christian family in Kansas. They have never faltered from voting Republican. They tell me that if the matchup is John McCain and Hillary Clinton, they will not vote for the first time in years.
If the matchup is Obama vs. McCain, they will vote Obama. This revelation surprised me. Obama has a way of reaching many people regardless of party.
To predict the general election based on the primaries is like throwing chicken bones.
I do know that growing up in Kansas, a large majority of people I knew had very very negative feelings about Hillary Clinton to the point of repulsion.
She is a polarizing figure and for many people, it is ingrained in them to the point that she would have to pull butterflies out of her ass to get their vote.
Ultimately, I just hope that we as a party can put aside our differences and vote for whatever democrat comes out of this alive. That person will need the full support of the party to win in November. Differences aside, we have to unite behind that person or face 100 years of war in Iraq.
emb
When did this internal party candidate-selection process become about popular vote totals? We’re electing delegates to a convention, not holding Phase 1 of a national run-off election. Count MI and FL, or don’t; the bottom line remains Obama’s ahead on elected, pledged delegates. Neither Clinton nor Obama has a solid statistical shot of going to the convention with an overwhelming lead, but on the only number that matters, Obama’s ahead.
Clinton is repeatedly trying to re-frame what “win” means (what “is” is?)– it used to be who has the most delegates, when she thought she was Annointed. Then it was who has the most Big States. Then it was the Popular Vote. Next week it’ll be, what, who has the most frequent-flyer miles? It’s that kind of weaselyness masquerading as “fighting” and “leadership” that makes Clinton so distasteful to many.
And where the fuck is her American Flag Pin??
M Shane
Very little is made of the truth, which Obama has an uncany ability and insight to speak, and that is that this race will determine the characterof the Democratic party in America forever, since he is a liberal, by all crtics the most liberal person in the senate, and she is a republican “the Reagan Democrats” elected her in Penn.
In other words the “dream team” will be Clinton and McCain. Just like her husband everything willbe done with the help of Republicans. She will not end the war anuy more than McCain. She has to keep Big Business happy. That’s what the Clintons are about. Obama has reason to be sadened. She will damn America to being a one party right wing country until the end: No if ands or buts. Why does everyone forget that her closest supporterfrom the beginning is the Bush pal Ruppert Murdoch (FOX).
If she cared about America instead of herself she would save every liberal the grief of dragging her around.
Bitch Republic
Go Hillz!
Leland Frances
Given the PA vote breakdown and exit polling, what the writers at Politico.com said a week ago is now obviously even more true:
“Why, ask many Democrats and media commentators, won’t Hillary Rodham Clinton see the long odds against her, put her own ambitions aside, and gracefully embrace Barack Obama as the inevitable Democratic nominee? Here is why: She and Bill Clinton both devoutly believe that Obama’s likely victory is a disaster-in-waiting. Naive Democrats just don’t see it. And a timid, pro-Obama press corps, in their view, won’t tell the story. But Hillary Clinton won’t tell it, either.
A lot of coverage of the Clinton campaign supposes them to be in kitchen-sink mode — hurling every pot and pan, no matter the damage this might do to Obama as the likely Democratic nominee in the fall.
In fact, the Democratic race has not been especially rough by historical standards. What’s more, our conversations with Democrats who speak to the Clintons make plain that their public comments are only the palest version of what they really believe: that if Obama is the nominee, a likely Democratic victory would turn to a near-certain defeat.
Far from a no-holds-barred affair, the Democratic contest has been an exercise in self-censorship.
Rip off the duct tape and here is what they would say: Obama has serious problems with Jewish voters (goodbye Florida), working-class whites (goodbye Ohio) and Hispanics (goodbye, New Mexico). Republicans will also ruthlessly exploit openings that Clinton — in the genteel confines of an intraparty contest — never could. …
There’s nothing to say that the Clintonites are right about Obama’s presumed vulnerabilities. But one argument seems indisputably true: Obama is on the brink of the Democratic nomination without having had to confront head-on the evidence about his general election challenges. That is why some friends describe Clinton as seeing herself on a mission to save Democrats from themselves. Her candidacy may be a long shot, but no one should expect she will end it unless or until every last door has been shut.
Skepticism about Obama’s general election prospects extends beyond Clinton backers. We spoke to unaffiliated Democratic lawmakers, veteran lobbyists, and campaign operatives who believe the rush of enthusiasm for Obama’s charisma and fresh face has inhibited sober appraisals of his potential weaknesses.†– Politico, April 18th
But the ship [whether or not one recognizes it as a Swift Boating of the Clintons by the Obama Borg as racists] has probably sailed and we’ll know in a few months whether Obama is an Admiral of Change or Gilligan.
PS to Afriguano: if you want to see a racist just look in the mirror.
Afroguapo
Leland, I know this sounds snarky and perhaps it is, but how do you relate to potential boyfriends or actual suitors, if this is how you act in public forums? I think most people are smart enough to deduce who the actual racists, hatemongers, inflammatory and race-baiting posters are:
BILL PERDUE writes:
Whenever the subject of pandering apologists for this or that betrayal by the Democrats comes up the name of Leland Francis is there, tagging along behind the big boys like conservatives Andrew Sullivan and John Aravosis. What distinguishes Frances is his frantic defense of one of the worst Democrats, Hillary Clinton. And the fact that without fact or analysis to defend his toadyism he make do with ample portions of personal abuse, lies and gaybashing language like “Mad Tranny Disease”.
Frances is Hillary’s self appointed altar boy; he’s keen on her in spite of DOMA and DADT and NAFTA and her unwavering support for the invasion of Iraq that’s produced a genocidal level of civilian deaths. He’s as happy with her as Pat Robertson, Santorum, Brownback, Billy Graham and Rupert Murdoch, who likewise have good reason to admire her right wing politics. As does Wal-Mart. As do the criminals who Bill Clinton pardoned and who ‘donate’ to her campaign.
Frances adores Clinton precisely because her version of ‘incrementalism’ is as bad as Franks, Pelosi’s, Feinstein’s and the rest all that grubby crowd. They all do the two party two step, except in their case its one step left and five steps right.
Sometimes the supporters of Republicans and Democrats are clueless – when they go all out to campaign for Obama, Giuliani, Clinton or whoever they just seem to leave their brains at home. They futilely project what they want and hope for onto frauds who don’t give a damn about GLBT folk. All these candidates want is votes and money and they’ll say anything or do anything short of embracing full equality, ending the war or repealing NAFTA to get them.
When Democrats Frank and Pelosi, joined by their Republicans cousins across the aisle rammed through their toothless version of ENDA they woke up a lot of people to the inherent folly of supporting either of the twin parties.
The 366 organizations and thousands of activists supporting UnitedENDA are now hard at work to reintroduce an ENDA that will protect us in court and hope that even those with self destructive illusions about Republican and Democrats will join the fight. The same goes for the Hate Crimes Bill, now endangered in Pelosi’s House of Greed.
Don’t hold your breath waiting for Frances to repudiate the Democratic/Republican fake version of ENDA. Unless of course Hillary does, but don’t hold you breath about that either. When all this fake ENDA business started I predicted that Frances would move even further to the right and I was correct, but I underestimated the speed of his hysterical desire to go home to his log cabin.
Afroguapo
Oh and cute, guano — peruvian term for excrement. My five year old niece exhibits more maturity than you.
hells kitchen guy
#31: It was Will Rogers, not Roy Rogers, who said it. But it’s a great quote!
Afroguapo
RickRoberts, some of your other posts over at Tampa Bay Online were removed for offensive content by the editor.
Posted by ( rickroberts ) on March 12, 2008 at 9:21 a.m. ( Suggest removal )
I want my vote counted the way it was cast on Jan 29th! Of course, we don’t have a Gov Wilder threatening riots at the convention or a Rev Al Sharpton threatening law suits and riots on our behalf, so we’ll probably lose this fight. If they do riot, then the National Guard should come out and come down hard on them. This is the United States of America – NOT Kenya or Haiti! Machetes, burning tires, and throwing rocks through windows will not be the way to victory! I have never voted Republican in my life, but if I am disenfranchised this time, this Democrat will vote McCain in the fall!
Report Inappropriate Comments
rickroberts
Afro, obviously the comment was not removed or you wouldn’t be able to copy it.
What is racist about the comment that you do quote? Explain it to me, please.
If Hillary ends up getting the nomination and we do have this sort of behavior in the streets, will you be back grant me my due?
Bob
Wow, Mr. C, you’re a mess. First, you write: THE BITCH STILL DOESN’T WINin it’s simplest form. And the you write: And RickRoberts, Black or not you Racist Pig. So, I guess sexism and calling a woman a bitch is OK, but anything said against a black candiate is racism. Nice.
Afroguapo
NO, this comment wasn’t removed which is why it could be copied and pasted but other ones could not where your name shows up but not the entry. It’s why I said some others were removed. I feel like you try to fan the flames of dissension/discord and fear between blacks and whites (sometimes veiled, sometimes explicit) and condemn Wright and others for the very thing you abhor — race-oriented or racial inflammatory speech. It goes back to what I said earlier, “We hate in others that which we see in ourselves.” My being black, you can attempt to dismiss me and say I have sour grapes and am being sensitive. But Bill Perdue, W.A.R. and others whites have called you out on it.
Bob
EMB, you should also ask your annointed candidate to define what “win” means, because according to every report I’ve seen he will not have “won” the nomination through pledged delegates. Looks like he won’t be a winner, either, unless the superdelegates pick him. But you Obamatons consistently fail to acknowledge or mention the face that Obama will have won NOTHING by the time of the convention, same as Hillary.
rickroberts
Using someone else’s editorial standard to prove my comment was racist will not wash. Again, explain the racism. Gov Wilder did indeed say that we will see in Denver worse than happened in Chicago in 1968. Al Sharpton has, in fact, filed a law suit in Florida and said there would be riots if Barack is denied. Haiti and Kenya do, in fact, settle their political disputes with violence.
Afroguapo
and white people in european countries riot too when there’s civil unrest. Look, only you know and the editors of Tampa Bay Online know what you wrote for it to be removed. Seemingly, it violated their terms of service or was reported by host of others for being offensive. You and Leland make no bones about being spiteful, racist, irreverent so there’s no need to deny it. This isn’t a figment of anyone’s imagination. E.G.,
Posted: Apr 9, 2008 at 7:20 pm
No. 22 · rickroberts
MrC, you need to stop antagonizing us. Why you be hatin’ on us? We don’t fit da mold. Dat right?
Why are we Obamatons Bob? just because we don’t support Hillary at the moment, but will nonetheless if she ends up being the nominee, read what Jesse wrote, he captures it succinctly. And for those who are inclined to not go for the ultimate nominee, go for the green party candidate.
rickroberts
Here is what Republicans are preparing for Barack. It is one of two ads released today in North Carolina. Still think you have a winning candidate on your hands?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3MWI3O7dZ0
Afroguapo
and Rick, what have I said from time immemorial? Back the ultimate nominee or go for the green candidate which is certainly more progressive on a host of issues. I find it curious that BHO and HRC who are more alike than not (quite similar on 90 to 95% of the issues) yet the similar refrain of disgruntled HRC supporters who say they will go for McCain if she doesn’t get the nomination when they know McCain is no champion of difference (the middle to lower middle classes, racial, sexual orientation, etc.). Interesting. Quite telling.
rickroberts
Afro, let me surprise you and agree with you on this last point. My threat to vote for McCain was a knee-jerk response because I have not considered the Greens a real alternative. I will take your charge and look into it. Thanks.
Leland Frances
Afro: the use of “guano” was no mere play on words for you consistently demonstrate that you’re full of shit.
How DARE you say I “make no bones about being racist.” If it were possible to sue your retarded ass for libel, I would.
As it is, one must simply try to stomp you like the cyber cockroach you are with facts and better-informed opinions than your own. The most obvious evidence that you can’t dispute their message is when you resort to attacking the messenger.
Bob
Afro, the reason why so many white voters say they’ll back McCain or not vote at all in November rather than vote for BHO is that we are still not convinced he doesn’t hate white America, much as his pastor (U.S. KKK A) does. I’ve voted in every presidential election since 1984, and for Democrats each time, but I cannot vote for a candidate who may at his core hate me because of my skin color.
Bob
Wow, Leland … how about practicing what you preach. I fyou don’t like it when folks “attack the messenger” perhaps you shouldn’t call them retarded or cyber cockroaches.
rickroberts
And here is the other ad released in North Carolina today:
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/nc-republicans-preview-wright-obama-ad/
Afro, if you are sincere about wanting to win, you must admit that your candidate is fatally flawed and go ahead and get behind Hillary for the good of the party.
Jesse
Obama does not hate white people. That is just silly. His mother is white for god sake and thus he is half white. He didn’t even really become involved in the african american community until after college. He grew up in Hawaii mostly and didn’t really know what it was to be black in America until he began attending college on the mainland.
I am white, so I can’t speak for the black community . However, there is justifiable animosity from members of the black community toward white people that might just come from the fact that we kidnapped them, enslaved them, raped them, beat them and deprived them of the right to vote or use a public toilet up until the 1960’s.
However Obama did not grow up in a black household. He is not the descendant of African slaves. His father who abandoned him was Kenyan. His mother was white and he was mostly raised by her and his white grandmother. I think it is great that obama has been exposed to two very different cultures in his upbringing. It makes him much more well rounded and able to understand the problems and issues surrounding race in this country.
They still exist, very obviously from reading some of the postings on here.
Afroguapo
Bob, neither BHO nor Wright hates America. There was a great article from an Army blogger on Talking Points which I wish I could find but it captured the Wright issue very well. Did you happen to see the article today about how poor black neighborhoods had solid waste put on their lawns to see the efficacy of lowering effects of lead? BHO and Wright just want this country to live up to its promise of fairness and reduce the yawning gap between rich and poor, black and white, etc. John Stewart made a joke about this fear, when he quipped “Mr. Obama, do you plan to enslave the white race if elected?” thinking somehow there’s a latent agenda when there is none. I am discernably black with Irish roots on my dad’s side and Jewish roots on my mom’s side. If I critique America or knuckleheads on this site, it’s not because I hate them for being white, but rather hate their repugnant small-minded views.
Afroguapo
Bob,
Here is the article. We need more white people like him and Jesse to convince their fellow whites that there’s no agenda or “hate whitey” movement afoot.
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/03/in-defense-of-reverend-wright.php
Afroguapo
And Bob, I don’t think Wright hates white people but what this country has done historically and continues to do, again, look for the article on solid wastes/environmental racism being practiced to prove a study. It was in Associated Press today.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-oped0404wrightapr03,0,2392831,print.story
By Lawrence Korb and Ian Moss
April 3, 2008
In 1961, a young African-American man, after hearing President John F. Kennedy’s challenge to, “Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country,” gave up his student deferment, left college in Virginia and voluntarily joined the Marines.
In 1963, this man, having completed his two years of service in the Marines, volunteered again to become a Navy corpsman. (They provide medical assistance to the Marines as well as to Navy personnel.)
The man did so well in corpsman school that he was the valedictorian and became a cardiopulmonary technician. Not surprisingly, he was assigned to the Navy’s premier medical facility, Bethesda Naval Hospital, as a member of the commander in chief’s medical team, and helped care for President Lyndon B. Johnson after his 1966 surgery. For his service on the team, which he left in 1967, the White House awarded him three letters of commendation.
What is even more remarkable is that this man entered the Marines and Navy not many years after the two branches began to become integrated.
While this young man was serving six years on active duty, Vice President Dick Cheney, who was born the same year as the Marine/sailor, received five deferments, four for being an undergraduate and graduate student and one for being a prospective father. Presidents Bill Clinton and George W. Bush, both five years younger than the African-American youth, used their student deferments to stay in college until 1968. Both then avoided going on active duty through family connections.
Who is the real patriot? The young man who interrupted his studies to serve his country for six years or our three political leaders who beat the system? Are the patriots the people who actually sacrifice something or those who merely talk about their love of the country?
After leaving the service of his country, the young African-American finished his final year of college, entered the seminary, was ordained as a minister, and eventually became pastor of a large church in one of America’s biggest cities.
This man is Rev. Jeremiah Wright, the retiring pastor of Trinity United Church of Christ, who has been in the news for comments he made over the last three decades.
Since these comments became public we have heard criticisms, condemnations, denouncements and rejections of his comments and him.
We’ve seen on television, in a seemingly endless loop, sound bites of a select few of Rev. Wright’s many sermons.
Some of the Wright’s comments are inexcusable and inappropriate and should be condemned, but in calling him “unpatriotic,” let us not forget that this is a man who gave up six of the most productive years of his life to serve his country.
How many of Wright’s detractors, Rush Limbaugh and Bill O’Reilly to name but a few, volunteered for service, and did so under the often tumultuous circumstances of a newly integrated armed forces and a society in the midst of a civil rights struggle? Not many.
While words do count, so do actions.
Let us not forget that, for whatever Rev. Wright may have said over the last 30 years, he has demonstrated his patriotism.
Lawrence Korb and Ian Moss are, respectively, Navy and Marine Corps veterans. They work at The Center For American Progress. Korb served as assistant secretary of Defense in the Reagan administration.
Afroguapo
Bob, here is a reference to the article
http://www.babycenter.com/204_ethical-questions-raised-in-baltimore-lead-poisoning-study_5231175.bc
This country is great but it can do much better on various fronts.
Jesse
What happened to Vince Foster?
Watch your back Obama. The Clintons will do whatever it takes.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4113276458031151696
Dom
How fair is it to count Michigan when Obama wasn’t even on the ballot?
rickroberts
Dom, it is very fair. He was stupid and removed his name.
Mr C
Well Bob, That’s sad that WHITES aren’t convinced that Barack likes them. After all we have endured the hate and superiorism of whites against us forever. I guess it’s now conjured up fear.
WOW…..But to hear a white Gay man say it is something. But yet they want equality, rights, and all this as a Gay person. But yet still don’t trust Blacks. So they rather go and vote for McCain?
Personally things for me are well, Thank God. But if this is the case. Why in the hell would anyone grant this community anything and the white gay feels they’re better than the black gays?
Vote for McCain there is no better hurt than to be HURT by one of your own and and John will do just that. Barack doesn’t have to win. But the people that have brought him thus far has proven something. However, the world will truly judge America as a racist nation in the end
Whites are now scared of something being used against them. They had done to Blacks and others for years? I guess they see how it feels.
But it’s amazing How Jeremiah Wright has scared folks with God Damn America. So I guess good Ol’ Jerry Falwell, and the rest of the White preachers who spew venon must be okay. It’s in the family.
ABSURD!
Leland Frances
Oh, Obama Marys, puhleeze! Jesus could rise from the dead and declare Jeremiah Wrong a saint and he would still continue to loose votes for your own Messiah.
The Korb and Moss screed was written from the Propaganda Room deep inside the Obama Borg hive. Their apologia pro loonia of Wrong is a ludicrous logical aburdity even they would recognize if they weren’t so fully under the Obama Trance. Lee Harvey Oswald was a Marine, too. I don’t know if he would have ever given Louis “Hitler was a great man†Farrakhan a lifetime achievement award in his name as Wrong did, but he did assassinate Wrong’s alleged earlier inspiration, JFK.
Christopher Hitchens HATES, LOATHES, DESPISES, SLANDERS Sen. Clinton, but he wrote this about Wrong:
“The statements of clergymen like Jeremiah Wright aren’t controversial and incendiary; they’re wicked and stupid. [He’s] a professional demagogue who thinks that AIDS and drugs are the result of a conspiracy by the white man. It is wicked and stupid and false to say such a thing. And it not unimportantly negates everything that Obama says he stands for by way of advocating dignity and responsibility over the sick cults of paranoia and victimhood.â€
OF COURSE, Falwell, Robertson, Hagee, et al., are, in sum, worse than Wrong. But the average voter is not going to see the difference because they never preached “Goddamn America.” They blamed gays not the government for AIDS and gays, et al., for 9/11 not America at large.
Bob
Wow, Mr. C. You assume a helluva lot in your post. Let’s address them one at a time.
Conjured up fear. No, I didn’t conjure anything. I just listened to Obama’s “friend” and “spiritual advisor” of the past 20 years spew his hatred of whites and white America. I don’t remember “conjuring” those comments. They were his and his alone. And Omaba basked in them until caught by the media.
Trust of blacks. I never said I didn’t trust blacks. You said that. I said I am not convinced Obama doesn’t have animosity toward half the nation. I said nothing about trust.
You say I suggest white gays are better than black gays. No, you did that. I said nothing of the sort.
You say I plan to vote for McCain. I do not. I just plan to not vote. Big difference.
You whites have done things to blacks for years. Please show me one — just one — incident of me or anyone I know doing anything to a black person.
And you compare Wright with Jerry Falwell. I don’t ever remember him castigating the entire black community the way the lovely, hate-fulled Wright has demonized the entire white community.
Absurd is right!
Bob
And one more thing — you can kvetch and moan about how horribly racist we whites are all you want. But that does little to change our minds about your candidate. Please do more to alienate us further so we’ll not only not be convinced to support Obama, but we will actively back his opponent. Yeah, that’s a wise strategy.
M Shane
Consider who took advantage of the racism card and pushed it in people’s faces. America is racist and it couldn’t be more obvious to devisive unproincipled people like Clinton. If she had any dignity at all and wasn’t a racist herself she would have kept her mouth shut.
Bob
Really? Hillary played the racism card? And yet, internal campaign memos shows Obama’s staff had already prepared to attack the Clinton campaign as being racist at the first opportunity. Interesting, eh, for someone who’s allegedy the great uniter.
Bob
The more I read on here, the mroe convinced I am to sit back and let McCain clean Obama’s clock.
FreeMe
In the words of the great 20th Century Los Angeles philospher, Rodney King, “can’t we all just get along?”
Afroguapo
Bob
I think what Mr. C may be getting at is that you automatically resort to the “us” versus “them” scenario: “But that does little to change OUR minds about YOUR candidate. Please do more to alienate US further so WE’ll not only not be convinced to support Obama, but WE will actively back his opponent” as if to imply that BHO is the black candidate and McCain for distrustful/suspicious gay whites when McCain is no ally to the gay community of any color. If you’re going to be polarized or alienated, at least be judicious about it and go GREEN. I think Jesse summed it up best and I am not being condescending, but it’s sort of preposterous to think BHO hates white people but I guess in times of perceived peril, anxiety and the flight or fight response people hunker down to what is familiar. You seemingly assail Obama in imputing the views of his pastor to BHO whereas you don’t seem to do it with the other candidates and can discern that they aren’t accountable for the views of those with whom they are religiously affiliated.
Mr. C please refrain from stooping to Leland’s level in going shrill and hyperbolic and abstain from making quick inferences which I realize is bound to happen given the most vocal voices on here but it only stirs the pot without getting to substance.
Bob, as far as what is perpetuated against black people, there’s institutional racism, check out the article on solid wastes on lawns of poor blacks in MD — that wouldn’t happen in an affluent white neighborhood and incidents like this may suggest why some blacks may be “paranoid” about HIV/AIDS origins. That is separate and distinct from say, you being racist which I don’t believe to be the case but just how systems operate and function. I still don’t think Wright hates white people as I’ve heard white friends/colleagues of his defend him. I guess the best analogy I can make is that I get fed up with heterosexist structures (whether at work, church, schools, within families, even within gay subculture itself where some of us privilege bi/straight men) and may critique it harshly but I know full well I don’t hate straight people.
Background
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/03/26/7896/
M Shane
I doubt that that is what the memo said, Bobster: besides I don’t see what would be a more obvious issue to put on the agenda to anticipate. This is a racist country: I’m just tired of people denying it, and saying the politically correct thing.
If McCain did beat Obama you know as well as I do that race would be the issue since Obama is the only man of principle since JFK.
If he did lose at least we would have run a person who believed in democracy.and gave America a chance to avert a Dictatorship.
Afroguapo
Bob,
Check this out, perspective of a white colleague of Wright’s.
http://truthabouttrinity.blogspot.com/2008/03/rev-wrights-teacher-and-friend-martin-e.html
M Shane
America reminds me of post ww2 Germany where the big movement by the right wing nationalists was to deny that the German people were anti-semites. That was a big fib, no one wanted to admit that “grandpa was a murderer”so they put all the blame on the SS and Gestapo.; Himler etc. Historians have discovered quite the contrary in thousands of letters, interviews etc. since.
Afroguapo
From one of his colleagues
http://truthabouttrinity.blogspot.com/2008/03/rev-wrights-teacher-and-friend-martin-e.html
Bob
M Shane, writes: Obama is the only man of principle since JFK. Hilarious! He takes money from an indicted slum lord, lies that he didn’t do so, then backpedals and admits he did; he lies that he never heard his pastor make hateful remarks, then backpedals and says he did; he lies and says no one on his staff assured Canadian officials that his opposition to NAFTA was mere campaign rhetoric, then backs off and says the meeting did happen; he lies and says his parents fell in love at a civil rights march that happened years after they wed; he deliberately misleads people with ads saying he doesn’t take oil company money when federal law prohibits all candidates from doing so. I could go on and on.
Of course, the Obamatons are now going to pounce all over Hillary, because that’s what they do when confronted about the flaws in their cannonized candidate. No, I don’t think Hillary is a bastion of honesty or goodness. But to pretend Obama is a saint is ludicrous.
And yes, America is racist as a society. But to pretend the ONLY reason people aren’t backing Obama is because they are racist is not only flat-out wrong but glosses over his inadequacies in so many other areas, including being all style no substance. But I’m sure we won’t hear anything but the race card being played and played and played when he loses.
Oh, and dear, my name is Bob. Not Bobster.
Bob
Hmmm. I guess I shouldn’t use terms like “Obamaton” if I want people to not make up cutesy, dismissive names for me when they disagree with me. My bad. I apologize.
Young, Rich & Elite with a Degree
According to the breakdown of voters participating in exit polls, the only thing Hillrod’s win proves is that there’s a whole lot of elderly, poor, under-educated, bitter people living in Pennsylvania. And by the way a few of the comments on this page read, some of them have found a way to pay their NetZero bill with food stamps.
Alacer
A step we need to take:
– relinquish the hold Dems and Repubs have on politics. We are a two party nation only by manipulation, not establishment and it is my belief that it has led to poor representation.
As far as the primaries go, why do you continue this fight? The divide is there, but it’s also there between the poor and the middle class and both of those and the rich. It’s there between us homos and those that still can’t accept the fact that we did not choose this fate. So far, it seems you have accomplished this much: calling each other racist and calling yourself the victim. Good job, if I want to run in circles, I’ll go exercise.
Alacer
Young, Rich & Elite with a Degree = example a
sorry, I’ll just go take my food stamps and crawl in a hole and let you live your life.
Mr C
Ummmm Bob As for Jerry Falwell, When the civil rights bill was passed. Jerry Falwell said he was disappointed in that decision because it was God’s will that the races stay seperate! PERIOD and that was against anything that was not WHITE PERIOD!
Personally I don’t give a DAMN if you don’t vote and if you do who vote for. Go with McCain and lets see how your ass will survive being Gay under him. I guarantee you it will be your worst nightmare. But her let your own punish you!
All this Hillary shit from the 90’s is re-warmed over and she cannot re-create what happen back then. She is smart and knows the game very well. Basically The Hillaryhaters won’t vote for Obama and the as you say the Obamatons won’t vote for Hillary.
So be it! With folks in her camp like
Ed Rendell
James Carville
who makes decisive racial comments.
I’d pass FUCK HER!
Leland isn’t great to be a snow queen?
rickroberts
Wow, MrC, you really are one bitter homosexual. Why so angry?
Bob
Because he knows Saint Obama doesn’t stand a chance in November, and he’s already bitter about it.
And Young, Rich & Elite with a Degree — the only thing NObama’s LOSS proves is he once again can’t carry a big state that the Dems must have in November and that he is lousy at spinning a loss to be a win. He blows, and not in a good way. McCain beats him by 200 in the electoral vote. Bank on it.
Mr C
I’m not bitter nor angry okay homosexual. And Hillary will not win!
Bank on that!
Young, Rich & Elite with a Degree
Dear Bob,
I’ll concede that Obamalicious has way too much personal integrity to have developed his skills at distorting the truth, unlike his Bosnian War veteran opponent, who, by the way, seems to be having a little bitty problem defeating “nice guy” NObama in the Democratic primaries, which just might hint at her chances against the Republican War Machine in November.
I mean, she’s gone from “The Inevitable” Democratic presidential candidate to second place against a relatively unknown, inexperienced Senator from Illinois. And while second place is nice, it still spells l-o-s-e-r.
As far as your “he blows” statement is concerned, considering that fellatio is Bill Clinton’s favorite form of non-sex, that is one category for which Hillary can legitimately claim “vast years of experience.” Plus it might explain those humongous, chipmunk cheeks of hers.
Jesse
What ever happened to Vince Foster?
queerunity
gays who like clinton are tantamount to self-haters
http://www.queersunited.blogspot.com
Afroguapo
Guys
Take a look at this, a white man who is a member of Trinity Church. We have reduced Wright to clips without any context and yes the Republicans will exploit this and many of you (e.g. Bob) will allow yourselves to be duped and hoodwinked (“I am not entirely convinced BHO doesn’t hate me for the color of skin”)
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-oped0326trinitymar26,0,7143430.story
As Jesse said earlier, neither HRC nor BHO is a saint and they are quite imperfect (we all know the mistakes they’ve made and will continue to make so stop the mudslinging). None of us BHO supporters revere Barack so much as to consider him a saint and many of us were for Kucinich previously. Also, just as an outside observor, but I do find it quite interesting that although BHO and HRC are virtually similar on a host of issues, that many of the HRC supporters say they will go for McCain (staying the course in Iraq, preserving Bush’s tax cuts, no friend to the gays) if HRC doesn’t get the nomination rather than going for the progressive party — Green which is pro-gay. I honestly feel like is akin to Ferraro’s subliminal message, that in voting for McCain, some of you are signaling and invoking your “white card” in voting for a candidate that you know is no friend/ally to people of color (historic — voting against MLK holiday to the present). Read Hothead McCain in The Nation if you want to make an informed opinion. It’s quite telling and sad at the same time. And Mr C is probably angry because despite the rainbow coalition we profess to be as a LGBT community, all the ugliness and hate has clearly cracked the surface.
rickroberts
OK, so big effin deal. A white dude goes to Trinity, and we have another “nuanced” explanation. Nice. That won’t wash in the fall. Sadly perhaps, attention spans of the vast majority of voters are not long enough to listen. They are not able or willing to be Barack’s sociology students. Elections in the modern era are won or lost in 30-second ads on TV. You and I may want a different dynamic, but that’s just how it is. Do you want to win?
Read this sober assessment from the Brits:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/anatole_kaletsky/article3803520.ece
Afroguapo
And Mr. C validly highlights the hypocrisy by pounting out that the very people who get exercised by Wright didn’t/don’t when it is a white pastor like Falwell.
http://www.frostillustrated.com/full.php?sid=1384
This is similar to those who got upset with Michelle Obama for “really proud” but not when Barbara Bush went all Marie Antoinette on the Katrina fiasco and people in the superdome. Pathetic, sad, unconscionable and shameless if you cannot see the connnection.
rickroberts
I totally see the connection, but Barack has a close, personal, 20-year relationship with Wright. There is a difference. Take off your blinders.
Afroguapo
Sounds like Leland is playing Transformers yet again and has now morphed into Bob. The shrill queen is the usual dead giveaway. Queerty, can you implement a Terms of Service so we can have constructive debate rather than people playing games under aliases.
Afroguapo
and white politicians had a close relationship with Falwell. Get some lasik Rick. Not trying to offend you Rick, but your background, Mississippi, Arkansas, Atlanta, you know what it means to be white in the South. You once wrote a poignant post about how you went to a church with black friends and they showed courage in escorting you weak-kneed/shivering from a church where the minister said things about the “white devil” (mind you Wright wasn’t talking about white people but a system that oppresses and subjugates and read the earlier post about the white man from Trinity) but it works both ways, and I doubt given what you’ve said that you would be there for those black friends in challenging racism (institutional or otherwise), privilege or people on this site who make dastardly comments. No, Rick, it’s clear, you really only want your needs met.
rickroberts
Addressing some of your statements in-line below, Afro:
and white politicians had a close relationship with Falwell
Yes, they did. I despised that fool and danced on his grave. The evidence is on my personal site, which I am certain you have scoured. But Falwell was never to past Presidents what Wright is to Barack. Sorry.
you know what it means to be white in the South.
Yes, I do, and I spent 4 years in the military where my best friend was black, and I have close black friends still, believe it or not. I have lived in Hawaii and NYC. We in the South understand race relations and probably do better with one another than perhaps all of you more enlightened northerners. We have had to.
escorting you weak-kneed/shivering from a church
You don’t know me, sir. Shivering? Never. That is a gross mischaracterization of my description of that day.
No, Rick, it’s clear, you really only want your needs met.
Granted, and who doesn’t? That’s politics, dude. It’s almost the very definition of the word.
Afroguapo
If the Democratic party is supposed to be for the masses of various groups, it’s nigh time that its constituents behave as much. I can want my needs met but also want the needs of working class latinos met, or immigrants or transgendered. Sorry, but the way you and others come off sounds completely selfish (willing to flex the white card if HRC doesn’t get the nomination which sounds destructive) but granted, I only know you in this context and have that as my only basis. I’d be really curious to see what your black friends reactions would be if they were privy to all your postings on here in all of their variety. You did say something about being emotional and being escorted out, at least that is what I recall.
rickroberts
One of my black friends did come across my comments, and I had some splainin to do, but all is well now. We are having a very good dialogue and are closer than ever. She is a tough bull-dyke Lesbian and supports Hillary, by the way.
Afroguapo
Which is perfectly fine. Blacks are not a monolithic group anymore than homosexuals are. I don’t think Barack is the black candidate (though some portray him as such) anymore than HRC is the white candidate. As Jesse says, look at their records, positions, personalities and decide which one works for you. However, there’s no need for the namecalling (St. Barack, Obamatons, etc.) or to raise the specter of race in incendiary fashion to elict a response. And to go McCain if HRC doesn’t get it, I stand by my assertion that this is invoking one’s white card. Check out what this white woman has to say about Wright. There are quite a few informed white people on the Trinity Blog Spot.
http://truthabouttrinity.blogspot.com/2008/03/dianna-bass-putting-rev-wrights.html
Bob
Um, Afroguard, I post as myself and only myself on here. Please keep your speculation and conspiracies theories to yourself. Thanks.
And young, rich & elite — If Hillary has a problem beating NObama in the primaries, as you say, how is it that she posted a 10-point victory just this week in a primary in a state key to the Democrats’ chances at winning the White House in November?
Afroguapo
Bob, the belligerent tone in conjunction with Afroguard, Leland has called me that before. And NObama, another Leland coined term. If you’re going to use an alias or alternate username too, don’t forget to switch the personalities also. But maybe you and Leland are just two angry people which I doubt.
Anyway, people, check this story out from a white woman at Trinity.
http://truthabouttrinity.blogspot.com/2008/03/dianna-bass-putting-rev-wrights.html
Afroguapo
Bob, the belligerent tone in conjunction with Afroguard, Leland has called me that before. And NObama, another Leland coined term. If you’re going to adopt an alias, don’t forget to switch personalities too. In any event, not really worth wasting time with you.
Anyway, people check this perspective from a white woman at Trinity.
http://truthabouttrinity.blogspot.com/2008/03/dianna-bass-putting-rev-wrights.html
Bob
Obama supporters can spin and attack and defend and explain all you want, but it doesn’t change one inevitable fact — Obama cannot win in November. Even Democratic Party insiders are now worrying publicly about that. Some of it is because of racism (whites who won’t vote for blacks, and I’m still kind of surprised it hasn’t gotten more media coverage but a very substantial divide and animosity between the Latino and African-American communities), and some is a reverse fear that Obama himself is racist. Is any of that rational or fair or just? No. But it doesn’t change the fact that it’s out there. Just look at the exit polling from some of the primary states. It’s unfortunate, but race still matters in this country and Obama’s candidacy is doomed because of it. Would Hillary fare any better as a woman? I dunno. I’m not a huge fan of Hillary, as some people on this website seem to believe. And I know the reality is that while there are Democrats who won’t vote for Obama because he is black or because they worry he holds animosity toward whites, there are Democrats who won’t vote for Hillary simply because she’s a woman. Tha’s just as irrational, unfair and unjust as the anti-Obama vote, but to pretend it isn’t out there is dishonest and disingenuous. To be completely honest, I’m thoroughly disappointed that the Democrats offered up two candidates who need to break through very strong and very deep historical prejudices to win in November. Yes, it’s nice to be pioneers, and 2008 will go down as a historic first for U.S. politics. But pioneers don’t always win (see Geraldine Ferraro in 1984, the first woman VP candidate from a major political party). Principles are good and breaking barriers is good. But I’m tired of the Democrats claiming the moral high ground, sticking to their princples, breaking new ground — and losing. I’d rather win for a change. Maybe that’s hugely pessimistic and caving to the sad realities of the U.S. political system, but I really am disappointed that 2008 is sadly shaping up to be yet another ground-breaking loss.
Typical White Gay Person
First of all, Obama will never be elected. Every day we see more and more just how empty his suit is. Many Clinton supporters will vote for Ron Paul if Obama gets the nomination.
The only issue with his race has become that every time someone calls him on his shit, they are called a racist/bigot etc.
Also, you can bet your sweet ass that the mainstream media who has been kissing the ground Obama walks on for no other reason than they just hate the Clintons, will turn on him in a New York minute as soon as he gets the nomination. That is just the way those fuckers fly.
Bob
Grow, up, Afroguard. Seriously.
Leland Frances
Not only am I not posting as “Bob,” I have never used the words “Afroguard” nor NObama. Perhaps someone else has under my name, and said other things that have convinced you I’m a racist, Afriguapo. Months ago someone tried to do exactly that but I disclaimed the post at the time. However, I don’t read Queerty [or anything else] every day. If this is how you came to the conclusions about me [rather than simply assuming it because I don’t support Obama except over McCain], I apologize for prematurely denouncing your accusation.
Bob
I know, Leland. I have no idea why Afroguapo (sorry, it looks like Afroguard on my screen because of the small type — My bad!) thought we were one and the same. Oh well!
Afroguapo
LOL, glad you took my admonition about switching personalities to appear as different people and that you’re making a concerted effort to do so, no matter how implausible it may seem. Leland/Bob, is this also you from FOX? I doubt it, you’re not known for the atrocious spelling but it does sound outlandish like you.
Comment by leland
March 14th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
Let us look. for moment… It would seem Obamas, secrets are starting to surface AMERICA! Those of you in the Entertaiment world, that jumped on this band wagon, will perhaps see truth now. Instead of getting caught up in the glamore of a world, that the rest of the country never sees. We see you, and your wisdom.
IM GOING TO SAY SOMETHING THAT NO ONE ELSE SEEMS TO WANT TO SAY!
If obama, is elected. As he chooses his Cabinet, as he appoints new Judges, new people in our Goverment. He is President. He is also Muslum. Do we stand by and allow our infratstucture to become Muslum??? They say … they will over come from within.. Do you people not know of the Muslum, locals in every town,every city? They are only waiting for the word.. Im not some radical. Im a concerned citizen. I AM AN AMERICAN! Now your going to see people respond to this…..who will it be? You better think about this AMERICA!!!!!! WE HAD 8 YEARS OF SOMEONE WHO HAD NO EXPERINCE!!!!
Bob
Dude, you are a whack job. Seriously.
Leland Frances
Christ of the Andes! NOT ME, I swear on a stack of whatever you’d like. Thanks for the reference to “FOX” as I was able to find the post which was just by “leland.” I don’t recall ever posting on the Fox site, but if I ever did it would be with my full name.
There is MUCH to criticize Obama for, be concerned about, but I have never believed the “Muslum” [sic] nonsense so I would never promote it. It disappoints me that anyone could equate anything I’ve ever written with the absurd paranoia in that post. Yes, ladies and germs, “Muslum Obama” [sic] could actually get away with infiltrating the federal government, high and low, with fellow “Muslums” [sic]. Ludicrous.
Finally, I doubt very much if THAT “leland” has ever written—as I have REPEATEDLY—that despite all my reservations about him I will eagerly vote for Obama over any Repug.
Typical White Gay Person
Afroquapo has one primary job. That is to create an environment so he/she can call someone a racist. Once Afroqupo decides someone is racist there is no way to defend yourself.
It has happened on the blog time and time again.
The more you try and defend yourself the deeper you find yourself in a hole.
Pretty sad and pathetic.
tim
to some of your comments are so childish.
To say for me is “quit whining”!!!!!!!!!!!
Afroguapo
No TWGP, my one primary job is being a lawyer. I am not creating any environment but rather RESPONDING to the “environment” that I readily observe on here. BHO was correct, Wright was speaking in stagnant terms as though America hadn’t progressed from the deplorable domestic atmosphere that he (and my father and grandfather) had to endure. I am 36 and see the promise of what can be in this country, and am hopeful that race relations will be even considerably better for my very young niece. I am not putting words in the mouth of anyone on this site, the people in question choose to write with the poison pen and I merely point it out. I deal in facts, not supposition. Regards, Afro.
Alacer
Congratulations everyone!!! You have actually had a debate less mature than something I’d hear in gym class! : )
Alacer
p.s. I am proud to have voted for Hillary on Tuesday and stand by my decision, but so far the Obama supporters here on this forum have FAR surpassed in maturity. Name calling?! please…
rickroberts
Could this week get any better? Rev. Wright: the gift that keeps on giving! Sweet!
http://www.taylormarsh.com/archives_view.php?id=27503
http://www.taylormarsh.com/archives_view.php?id=27501
Bob
Afro, you’ve twisted everything anyone says on here into an ability to call them racist. We’re not sure Obama can carry the rural vote. We must be racist! We’re not sure what to make of Obama having an anti-white pastor. We must be racist! Etc., etc. This seems to be the standard response of Obama’s camp — if you question anything about the candidate or express any reservations about him you must be a black-hating racist! I began my conversation on here by saying I was on the fence about voting for Obama because I wasn’t sure that he didn’t harbor aninomosity toward whites (because of the seemingly white-hating pastor he calls his “spiritual guide”). That’s it — a simple question: Is Obama racist? I asked because I really don’t know, and a lot of other people don’t know either. And somehow, by asking that question, I’ve turned into such a bigoted racist that I must have my own KKK chapter. Please tell me how asking if it might be true that Obama dislikes white people makes me hate black people? How does asking if someone is a racist make the poser of the question a racist? Dude, if you really are a lawyer, you must not win many cases because that’s one of the the saddest, most ludicrous leaps of logic I’ve ever heard.
Mr C
All this back and forth will not get anyone anywhere.
The Clinton supporters support Hillary and The Obama supporters support Obama.
And hopefully a resolution will come out of it.
Because if there is any REAL HATRED within you. Only you know that. I don’t feel that anyone that doesn’t support Obama is racist. But my issue is this. Some of the Clinton supporters on here try to go so hard on The Jeremiah Wright/Donnie McClurkin issue as if nothing like this was ever said before and that is PURE BULLSHIT. I can name many Caucasian pastors who has said VILE/EVIL THINGS against America as well as Gays. But it seems that Jeremiah Wright is Anti-White? Not true No matter how “You Tube†has made you feel for a 5 minute bite.
And, So what he sat in that congregation 20 yrs. What about those that heard your parents said CRACKER, NIGGER, etc as you grew up and you thought it was okay because “Daddy said itâ€. Do you hate your Parents? I don’t think so. You will worship the ground they walk on.
Which states you see things from a “double standard??
Okay to the other side. Jerry Falwell hated that the Civil Rights Bill was passed. So he’s Anti-Black/Hispanic/Gay do you feel the same anger about him?
Just the other day in South Carolina it was in the news that a Baptist preacher had on his church sign outside “OBAMA OR OSAMA” You choose? Will your anger build up like that because he’s Anti-Black??????
Just think about why you feel the way you feel. It has nothing to do with the Election. And all this alleged Patriotism everyone is having behind this. If it’s real then serve your country and go to war. Be Proud. Because our country is not showing us that they’re proud of having Gays in this country.
Oh yeah John McCain’s Buddy John Hagee said that Catholicism was a “CULT†and I don’t hear any of you white/black/Hispanic gays getting all up in arms about that????? STRANGE ISN’T IT?
And he still stands by his statement that God allowed “Hurricane Katrina†because of Southern Decadence coming to that town so all that died and have lost everything is because of us gay people? And that statement is more devastating than anything Donnie McClurkin could have ever said.
Ms Leland are you listening?
Once again neither one of them (CLINTON/OBAMA) can do anything for Gay People sorry girls that is the house and senate and they have NO INTENTIONS on passing anything for us. I do mean not passing anything.
Mr C
All this back and forth will not get anyone anywhere. The Clinton supporters support Hillary and The Obama supporters support Obama. And hopefully a resolution will come out of it.
Because if there is any REAL HATRED within you. Only you know that. I don’t feel that anyone that doesn’t support Obama is racist. But my issue is this. Some of the Clinton supporters on here try to go so hard on The Jeremiah Wright/Donnie McClurkin issue as if nothing like this was ever said before and that is PURE BULLSHIT. I can name many Caucasian pastors who said VILE/EVIL THINGS against America as well as Gays. But it seems that Jeremiah Wright is Anti-White? Not true no matter how “You Tube†has made you feel for a 5 minute bite. And, So what he sat in that congregation 20 yrs. What about those that heard your parents said CRACKER, NIGGER, etc as you grew up and you thought it was okay because “Daddy said itâ€. Do you hate your Parents? I don’t think so. You will worship the ground they walk on. Which states you see thing from a “double standard??
Okay to the other side. Jerry Falwell hated that the Civil Rights Bill was passed. So he’s Anti-Black/Hispanic/Gay do you feel the same anger about him?
Just the other day in South Carolina it was in the news that a Baptist preacher had on his church sign outside “OBAMA OR OSAMA” You choose? Will your anger build up like that because he’s Anti-Black??????
Just think about why you feel the way you feel. It has nothing to do with the Election. And all this alleged Patriotism everyone is having behind this. If it’s real then serve your country and go to war. Be Proud. Because our country is not showing us that they’re proud of having Gays in this country.
Oh yeah John McCain’s Buddy John Hagee said that Catholicism was a “CULT†and I don’t hear any of you white/black/Hispanic gays getting all up in arms about that????? STRANGE ISN’T IT?
And oh yeah he still stands by the fact that God allowed “Hurricane Katrina†because of Southern Decadence coming to that town so all that died and have lost everything is because us gay people? And that statement is more devastating than anything Donnie McClurkin could have ever said.
Ms Leland are you listening?
Once again neither one of them (CLINTON/OBAMA) can do anything for Gay People sorry girls that is the house and senate and they have NO INTENTIONS on passing anything for us. I do mean not passing anything.
Mr C
OOPS it got repeated twice…MY BADD!
Afroguapo
Bob:
I haven’t twisted what anyone has said and I’ve certainly said nothing tantamount to your contention: “I’ve [been] turned into such a bigoted racist that I must have my own KKK chapter.” I have pointed out however fallacies, questionable tactics (voting for McCain if HRC doesn’t get the nomination), deliberately incendiary comments people have made in order to offend those who have or present a contrary view. I also concurred with Jesse numerous times that I just feel it absolutely absurd that one would think BHO is somehow anti-white when his think tank of advisors is basically all white, he is half-white, his seminal speech in Philadelphia asking that we all try to see perspectives from the other side and that Wright’s speech wasn’t about white people per se such as yourself but rather historic oppressive/imperialistic policies (AmeriKKKa) that have harmed others — echoed again in his Bill Moyers interview. I have also highlighted the hypocrisy that some of you exhibit as far as taking BHO, Wright and Michelle to task but not taking say, HRC, a plethora of white pastors or Marie Antoinette Barbara Bush to task for truly offensive comments. That’s a double standard which Mr. C has reiterated over and over again which some of you seem to ignore. I also stated that I didn’t believe you to be a racist and tried to bridge the divide by stating: “Bob, as far as what is perpetuated against black people, there’s institutional racism, check out the article on solid wastes on lawns of poor blacks in MD — that wouldn’t happen in an affluent white neighborhood and incidents like this may suggest why some blacks may be “paranoid†about HIV/AIDS origins. That is separate and distinct from say, you being racist which I don’t believe to be the case but just how systems operate and function. I still don’t think Wright hates white people as I’ve heard white friends/colleagues of his defend him. I guess the best analogy I can make is that I get fed up with heterosexist structures (whether at work, church, schools, within families, even within gay subculture itself where some of us privilege bi/straight men) and may critique it harshly but I know full well I don’t hate straight people.” The funny thing in all this is that I am only a BHO supporter by default — Kucinich having been knocked out and w.r.t. HRC, I just find her very inauthentic, duplicitous and complicit in this Iraq quagmire. But unfortunately, BHO may not be able to carry the white rural vote because of obstinate people who only want to see what they WANT to see and politicos/media fomenting and manipulating that angst (e.g., the North Carolina piece about airing Wright sound bites which was on Towelroad and I think this site as well) in contrast to other white people who can see it is political ploy spin (e.g., the nuanced articles I posted from white people who go to Trinity or white people on this site — Bill Perdue, Jesse BillPnDx (sp)). I will concede that I am hypervigilant about matters of race much in the same way you may be hypervigilant about matters of sexual orientation being gay — and this is only exacerbated when you have perhaps 2-4 very vocal individuals on here who make it their quest to divide and conquer racially within the LGBT ranks. I do apologize if you and Leland are two different people but in the past he supposedly has had different aliases which others have pointed out. And yes, I really am a lawyer but don’t win cases as I am not a litigator — though my fervent debates on here may suggest otherwise. TGIF, it looks nice outside… enjoy, Afro.
seitan-on-a-stick
Obama had me at The Audacity of Hope Speech but we all know that Reverend Wright is the “Willie Horton” as it may not be shocking to Gay African-Americans who find themselves increasingly rejected in the Black Church because of Homophobia and AIDSphobia yet is still is the bastion of gay black social life. Unfortunately, the Reverend has brought down the House of Obama as White/latino/Asian/54% of Blacks were deeply offended by the Overexposed Reverend Blasphemy no matter the context. Roseanne Barr on Air America (Barack Obama Radio) said it right when she said that the Rev should have at least said “God HELP America.” especially given the recent memories of Katrina and knowing that he could bring a Brother Down. At least we Gays know when to shut-up (leave Gay Marriage for a Democratic President) but the Democratic party need to find a way to disappear this Toxic Distraction with an Ego the size of Montana. Howard Dean is the biggest fuck-up for letting this happen. Hillary now looks poised to save our party. The Obama-Wright ticket is dying so fast that you could hear Obama’s elevator crash into the basement of his Presidential Aspirations. Indiana has gone from TEAM OBAMA to TEAM HILLARY. It’s the Theocracy, stupid Democratic Party. We don’t want to fall on a sword for a coulda-woulda-shoulda like we do in Mayoral elections in New York. Obama will make a Great Vice-President and can be mainstreamed for a future run. Sorry, America is a nation of Race identifiers (I almost said racist…) and it is going to be hard to see the best hope of a Black President sabotaged by a egomaniacal Reverend who does not know when to leave the pulpit. Can we say Madame President? The 666 million dollar question is: Are gays more Racist (2-way street) or African-Americans more homophobic? This is only for the losers who subscribe to this steam (including all the straights in the campaign sho pretend to be Gay). There are Medications for anyone’s over-investment in this Democratic Race. After all, we are gay and end up with Squat at best, and worse with McCain Rising.
M Shane
Hillary would certainly be a legitimate running mate with McCain, not Obama any day. You forget she’s just another Republican, who’srunnibng onthe Dem ticket because the Republicans won’t take a woman.
See how we do with another Margaret Thather.