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Hollywood’s A-List Gays Fighting Over Prop 8. Protests and Boycotts

The internal battle over Prop 8 strategy has taken on a Tinseltown tone as openly gay studio Hollywood directors worry about the tactics of Prop 8 protesters, while queer indie figures like Mysterious Skin director Gregg Araki voice full-throated support for protest and boycott efforts.

The L.A. Times sits down with several prominent gay Hollywood power players and we learn that if you’re a big studio gay, you think that the gay rights movement ought to make peace with the establishment and if you’re outside the system, you’re all for Internet-enabled protests and boycotts– not exactly the biggest shocker in the world, but it’s neat to see how much your career path can influence your politics.

In the big studio camp, Dreamgirls director Bill Condon refers to Prop. 8 protesters as the “off-with-his-head” crowd and rhetorically asks:

“If you’re asking, ‘Do we take discrimination against gays as seriously as bigotry against African Americans and Jews?’ . . . the answer is, ‘Of course we do.’ But we also believe that some people, including [Richard Raddon, director of the L.A. Film Festival who donated $1,500 to support Proposition 8] saw Prop. 8 not as a civil rights issue but a religious one. That is their right. And it is not, in and of itself, proof of bigotry.”


Boys Don’t Cry director Christine Vachon echoes the sentiment by saying “I can’t quite stomach the notion that you fire somebody because of what they believe. It doesn’t feel right to me.”

Queertown’s Patrick Range McDonald says that “the hand-wringing by A-list gays Bruce Cohen, Christine Vachon, and Bill Condon… [make them] sound like apologists for straight, entertainment industry honchos who donated to the “Yes on 8″ campaign.”

And he’s not alone. Greg Arakai isn’t buying the “they know not what bigotry they support” argument and says:

“I don’t think [Raddon] should be forcibly removed. The bottom line is if he contributed money to a hateful campaign against black people, or against Jewish people, or any other minority group, there would be much less excusing of him. The terrible irony is that he runs a film festival that is intended to promote tolerance and equality.”

He’s vowed that he won’t allow his films to screen at the festival, while Dan Jinks and Bruce Cohen, the producing duo behind Milk, will screen their film at Cinemark Theatre’s despite Cinemark CEO Alan Stock donating nearly $10,000 to the Yes on 8 campaign.

Also in the “off with their head” crowd is Chad Griffin, “a political advisor to Hollywood executives” who says

“A dollar to the yes campaign is a dollar in support of bigotry, homophobia and discrimination. There are going to be consequences. Any individual who has held homophobic views and who has gone public by writing a check, you can expect to be publicly judged. Many can expect to pay a price for a long time to come.”

The discussion is a microcosm of the debate happening in the wider gay community, but gay Hollywood wields enormous political and financial power over the gay-community-at-large. There’s a real sense that there’s a breaking point coming in the near future with the younger, internet-centric activists chomping at the bit to bolt from the older “all in good time” crowd.

For our part, it seems that the whole point of peaceful protest and boycotting is to make people rethink their bigotry (which is what you call the act of denying another person their civil rights for whatever reason) and to make it socially unacceptable to support discriminatory policies. Just because someone’s religious beliefs tell them it’s okay to discriminate doesn’t mean that we should have any acceptance for them pushing those beliefs into the civic square. And honestly, do you remember any time in U.S. history that someone won their civil rights by sitting patiently at the back of the bus?

By:           Japhy Grant
On:           Nov 24, 2008
Tagged: , , , , , , ,

  • 75 Comments
    • ricardo
      ricardo

      those big wigs are calling the angry gay protesters selfish for demonstrating our opposition against suppression, when they are the selfish ones while trying to protect their big money at the expense of their dignity, what a bunch of useless power gays we have representing us up there…

      Nov 24, 2008 at 1:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Stuart
      Stuart

      The question seems to be whether or not one can support a person, institution or organization that has given material support to a cause that persecutes homosexuals by making them constitutionally mandated second class citizens. Politics aside there is little doubt that we as a nation believe holding people accountable for their political actions, the monetary support of political groups that we as a nation deem anti-democratic and promoters of inequality. There is nothing complicated about the issue of whether or not gay men and women should boycott organizations that support the legal persecution of homosexuals by making them second class citizens unable to marry, raise children or otherwise live fulfilled lives as legally wed partners and parents.

      Nov 24, 2008 at 1:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Joe Moag
      Joe Moag

      Interesting dynamic you’ve pointed out.

      Nov 24, 2008 at 1:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ChicagoJimmy
      ChicagoJimmy

      Please, sir. May I have another right?

      Nov 24, 2008 at 1:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SuperCat
      SuperCat

      Rosa Parks won her civil rights by patiently sitting at the front of the bus.

      Nov 24, 2008 at 1:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • walt zipprian
      walt zipprian

      @SuperCat:

      Which was an act of civil disobedience. Along with many others.

      It wasn’t like she just sat there and didn’t bother anybody.

      Nov 24, 2008 at 1:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Timothy Kincaid
      Timothy Kincaid

      Those riding in First Class staterooms seldom want those in steerage to rock the boat.

      Nov 24, 2008 at 1:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Joan
      Joan

      @Timothy Kincaid

      Ooooo. Nice one. :-)

      Nov 24, 2008 at 2:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • michael
      michael

      I suppose there is a lot of homophobia in Hollywood. With friends like this who needs enemies? People like this are only worried about their careers and would sell their souls to make sure that stays in tact. Talk like this makes me want to go out protest more.
      It is absolutely hilarious to me that we are being shamed like bad
      little children for doing something that other groups are given awards for. During the civil rights movement people were arrested, beaten and even killed. As far as this jackass saying these people have a right to oppress us based on religion, well let me tell you that as a southerner, people in the south justified slavery by use of religion. The Mormon church even considered black people as “marked” by God and only after they were sued did they change that. Do not let these HRC, sell there souls for social status types destroy our convictions. This guy isnt’t gay,
      gay people have a heart.

      Nov 24, 2008 at 2:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ggreen
      ggreen

      Comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable. These are the same kind of Hollywood insiders that bitched that the gay community didn’t see “Making Love” so that was proof that gay themed movies don’t make money. They also said playing gay was the kiss of death for any actor. These folks have made their money and have no desire to let anything stand in the way of them making more money. Condon and Vachon are really past their sell by dates.

      Nov 24, 2008 at 2:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Merlin
      Merlin

      Poor rich gays, gaining the whole world while loosing……….

      Nov 24, 2008 at 2:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Qjersey
      Qjersey

      Screw each and every last one of them. The A-Gays think they are so insulated by their money. Well maybe that’s because they can afford to hire a lawyer to write up those documents (e.g., power of attorney) needed when you don’t have a state or federally recognized intimate partnership.

      Nov 24, 2008 at 2:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jeff
      Jeff

      Thanks Bill Condon…..I’ve seen the last of your films that I’m going to see.

      Nov 24, 2008 at 2:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • walt zipprian
      walt zipprian

      @Jeff:

      Yeah, me too. And the HRS can kiss my dollars good-bye.

      Nov 24, 2008 at 2:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • walt zipprian
      walt zipprian

      Ahem, HRC. Oopsie Poopsie

      Nov 24, 2008 at 2:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • LAhomo
      LAhomo

      So not understanding the difference between civil marriage and religious marriage is an excuse for bigotry? We are talking about civil law here — it has nothing do with religion. Further, people used religion not bigotry justifications for anti-interracial marriage laws and also Jim Crow laws too — read your history Mr. Condon and M s. Vachon. then look me in the eye and say the same thing.

      Nov 24, 2008 at 2:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ajax
      ajax

      Fifty percent of this item is just to frustrating to read. If there isn’t already a gay-equivalent of Uncle Tomming, I think Mr. Condon and Ms. Vachon risk a date with infamy.

      Mr. Condon: Mr. Raddon has every right to spend his money as he sees fit. So do I. If I don’t want to spend my money in his establishment, for ANY reason, it is my right not to spend my money or to spend it elsewhere. STFU.

      Ms. Vachon: I can be fired because I think I have the right to create a life with the man I love. Does that “feel right” to you? STFU. STFU.

      Shame on you both.

      Nov 24, 2008 at 2:59 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      This is so ironic. Hollywood is world famous because it knows how to promote something. So save me all of the post election BS.

      If you wanted to do something, PRIOR to the election was the time for making your views known, giving your money, making a statement..not allowing films to be shown at certain venues etc.

      Yes also I agree AJAX Vachon & Condon are the Gay equivalent of Uncle Toms.

      Nov 24, 2008 at 3:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The Gay Numbers
      The Gay Numbers

      House slaves would tell other slaves to not rock the boat.

      During Jim Crow, some blacks who would tell other blacks to drink from the colored water fountains because they did not want to rock the boat.

      Why should gays not have the same sorts?

      They are not our allies. They are the face of Hollywood, which is itself the face of the status quo.

      Your problem is that you think they are gay Hollywood. But that pressumes that this is important to them.

      You also pressume too much by believing they are powerful. They are held to the leash of the industry that supports them.

      If they did not say what they said, the masters would have yanked at the chain.

      Remember- Hollywood is not about “yes”, it’s about “no.”

      These guys (and gals) live in fear of that no.

      Nov 24, 2008 at 3:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • todd
      todd

      Keep stirring the pot, bitches! What if the drag queens at Stonewall had decided to have tea and crumpets instead of getting in those cops’ faces? As long as we don’t break any laws, I say, HAVE AT IT…!

      Nov 24, 2008 at 3:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ralph
      ralph

      “Boys Don’t Cry director Christine Vachon echoes the sentiment by saying “I can’t quite stomach the notion that you fire somebody because of what they believe. It doesn’t feel right to me.””

      –Really? So, how likely is it that an a member of KKK or any neo-Nazi organization would employment in a Hollywood studio?

      Also, layoff the house slave stuff. That’s a misrepresentation of slavery. Many real house slaves actually faced harsher treatment that field slaves because they were in closer quarters to their oppressors.

      “Bootlicker” or “collaborator” might be a better word to describe these idiots.

      As for Rosa Parks, please don’t underestimate the danger the woman faced for refusing to give up her seat. She could have been beaten or killed. Other who engaged in non-violent acts of civil disobedience as she did suffered terrible violence.

      Nov 24, 2008 at 3:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Leland Frances
      Leland Frances

      JESUS FUCKING CHRIST!

      We’re really finding out not only who our nongay enemies are but the gay ones as well. And, yes, Hollywood A-Fags have been a huge part of the problem not the solution FOREVER!

      RICH Queer Quisling Bill Condon gave a whopping $500 against Prop H8TE according to the SF Chron database. He could have brought together his dream Dreamgirls and Chicago casts for a mega anti H8TE fundraiser as Midler and Tomlin did for gay rights in 1977 at the Hollywood Bowl but, no, she was too busy being sanctimonious.

      Echoing Christine Vachon gave ZERO.

      Bruce Cohen apparently gave only $7500 and his producing partner Dan Jinks, $2800.

      Fag Republican Marc “Desp Housewives” Cherry gave ZERO.

      At least, Greg Berlanti who has the best fictional gay couple on TV in Kevin & Scotty of “Brothers & Sisters,”gave $30,000 but surely he could have afforded more. In any case, I hope he’s not going to join the don’t blame Massa for bein’ bad Porch Faggots like Condon.

      Nov 24, 2008 at 3:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ML
      ML

      We have every right to withhold our money from those who chose to support discrimination. Hollywood is an industry like any other so it understands only one thing — the bottom line. They will only begin to listen when that bottom line is negatively impacted.

      Nov 24, 2008 at 3:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Leland Frances
      Leland Frances

      The above presumes that the “Bill Condon” with “Nicole Enterprises” is the gay writer/director/apologist.

      Nov 24, 2008 at 3:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The Gay Numbers
      The Gay Numbers

      @ralph: It’s analogy. Yes of course it’s not a perfect analogy. Most anlogies are not going to be exactly the same as the thing to which they are being compared. The point is that even with the most extreme situation, there wills still be some who will say “do nothing.” That this do-nothing behavior is actually in the nature of humanity. So chill. I am African American and know quite a bit about the history. But its analogy, and I wasn’t going for exactness so much as metaphor of how extreme the bootlicking can get.

      Nov 24, 2008 at 3:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill
      Bill

      The people have voted. It’s time to move on. 30 states do not want gay marriage. As for the people from both sides who spent millions of dollars pro or con prop 8, you’re nuts. That money could have gone to the homeless, the hungry, or hundreds of other charities. I believe Brad Pitt and Spielberg wasted $100,000 each on prop 8. Ridiculous! And Brad and Angie aren’t getting married until everyone has the right to marry. Who cares! Live together all you want.

      Nov 24, 2008 at 3:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The Gay Numbers
      The Gay Numbers

      @ML: It is odd that they are telling us that we MUST give our money to people whom we do not want to support. It’s like we don’t have the freedom to say no. We must say yes because then we are denying them their freedoms. Apparently freedom means whatever they want to do, but not whatever we want to do with our own money.

      Nov 24, 2008 at 3:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The Gay Numbers
      The Gay Numbers

      @Bill: No one is telling you what to do with your money. But you are telling us what to do with ours. So to do that i say fuck off.

      Nov 24, 2008 at 4:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Joe Moag
      Joe Moag

      @Leland Frances: Quisling. Good one!

      Nov 24, 2008 at 4:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Paul Raposo
      Paul Raposo

      …while Dan Jinks and Bruce Cohen, the producing duo behind Milk, will screen their film at Cinemark Theatre’s…

      Another reason for me to boycott, Milk.

      Nov 24, 2008 at 4:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      Bill – its about those 1000 Federal rights that ONLY marriage gives……and respect and equality. If you’ve been coming here even a little then you know that.

      People usually do not (and never should)be allowed to vote on basic civil rights.

      Shame on the Calif. supreme court for not seeing this.

      Nov 24, 2008 at 4:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jack E. Jett
      Jack E. Jett

      Paul ..or someone.

      How can we find an official list of who gave to both sides of Prop 8.

      In the current economy, it is easy to boycott.

      These pussy homos that don’t believe in taking it to the street obviously were not around when we were fighting for a very lives and were being told to shut up by pissy AIDS fund raisers.

      Vachon/Codon should be on everyone’s shit list.
      They take our meney and laugh at us behind our back.

      Has LOGO or HERE Tv coughed up some money?

      Nov 24, 2008 at 4:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DairyQueen
      DairyQueen

      Who cares what these “Gay” Hollywood Elites have to say. Of course they are going to tell us not to boycott anything that may affect their wallets. They don’t give a shit about anyone but themselves. I refuse to go see Milk in a Cinemark Theatre. If I can’t see it anywhere but those theatres, then I will wait for the DVD which will be out in 3 months.

      Nov 24, 2008 at 4:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • RS
      RS

      “But we also believe that some people … saw Prop. 8 not as a civil rights issue but a religious one. That is their right. And it is not, in and of itself, proof of bigotry.”

      Nonsense. Voting within your congregation regarding whether or not to allow same-sex marriages is a religious issue. Voting to disallow secular marriages at City Hall has nothing to do with your religion. It’s bigotry to impose your religious beliefs on non-believers. Keep your beliefs inside your church and we won’t bother you.

      Nov 24, 2008 at 4:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Charles J. Mueller
      Charles J. Mueller

      @Bill:

      If you are not pissed by what just happened and don’t want to take to the streets, that’s fine and dandy.

      But do us all a fucking favor. STFU and step to one side, because YOU, Sir, are blocking our path.

      And if you cannot do that, we will walk all over you just like those who also walked all over you.

      Asshole are indistinguishable to both straights and gays.

      Nov 24, 2008 at 4:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ggreen
      ggreen

      Per KOS at Daily KOS:

      Anti-Prop 8 backlash changes minds

      Anti-Prop 8 backlash changes minds
      http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/11/24/13811/931/272/665857

      Nov 24, 2008 at 5:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Leland Frances
      Leland Frances

      Here’s the link to a search device for finding out who gave on BOTH sides. You can even just put in a state name to see how much was given to either side from places outside of CA.

      http://www.sfgate.com/webdb/prop8/

      While I have one friend whose donation doesn’t show up, I’m convinced that it’s 99.9% accurate. And, most of all, if it’s a “gay celeb” you’re interested in and don’t find his/her name it’s unlikely to be an error as the NO people would have promoted their donation to encourage others.

      And FORGET bullshit like, “Well, maybe [fill in the blank] gave anonymously.” Anonymous donations could NOT be legally accepted. So, e.g., if you look up Ellen and see that she only gave $100,000 out of her $70+ MILLION fortune or don’t find ANY donation by Rosie O’Donnell…then that’s the sad truth.

      And, before anyone looks, and fires back…I gave under my legal name. LF is just a pen name. And poor moi gave MORE than Bill Leave the Mormon Bigots Alone Condon.

      Nov 24, 2008 at 5:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Leland Frances
      Leland Frances

      PS: to be fair, one can look up business names, too, e.g, PG&E’s donation of $250K shows up. So if someone knows of a business name underwhich Condon or Rosie or whomever might have given, go for it.

      Nov 24, 2008 at 5:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Leland Frances
      Leland Frances

      whoever : – (

      Nov 24, 2008 at 5:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jack E. Jett
      Jack E. Jett

      Leland

      Thanks for the valuable information.

      Nov 24, 2008 at 7:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • chuck
      chuck

      @Leland Frances:

      It embarrasses me to say that I live in the State of Florida, where Proposition 2 was just passed.

      I used the link you kindly provided for us to look up some names.

      I was saddened to learn that none of my gay friends here in Florida donated to Proposition 8 in California. Not one!

      Even more depressing, was the that that only one friend from my hometown, a Young Asian man at that, attended the National Day of Protest Rally. Everyone else I knew was too busy to attend, despite my calling and prompted them to.

      Why did it not come as any surprise to learn that a large number of gays did not vote in California as well.

      Can we talk about apathy?

      Nov 24, 2008 at 7:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The Gay Numbers
      The Gay Numbers

      @chuck: I keep saying that its hard to have a movement when there are no core underlying values from which to create a community. We are a population. Not a community. Thus, the apathy.

      It’s also hard to have a community, and this will get me in trouble, when having fun becomes the primary motivator for what defines the “community” rather than shared values. Having fun alone can’t sustain you in moments like this. There has to be something more to upon which relationships are based.

      Both of these things explain why wealthy and famous gays feel that they can not only ignore this issue, but give aid and support to those who actively campaign against us.

      There is no community price to be paid for it. As many gays will come to their defense because they are enterained by them as will have a problem with what Hollywood types has said. That’s why we have a hard time defeating the right.

      Nov 24, 2008 at 7:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • mark
      mark

      I am sick of these whiney Yes on 8 folks gay and straight throwing around the “blacklist” term.
      The last queer who blacklisted was Roy Cohn, and he did it with McCarthy.
      Blacklist is a GOVERNMENT agency demanding names of those they disagreed with, and punished by having employers name names and not hiring them. It was top down. Boycotting businesses which have anti-gay management, is merely NOT paying for your OWN discrimination.

      Nov 24, 2008 at 8:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • mark
      mark

      and another thing,

      No one stuck a gun to anyone’s head to donate to attack gay families, you did it of your own freewill, with full knowledge the names of those donating was PUBLIC.

      Nov 24, 2008 at 8:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Benway
      Benway

      Serious question to all: have gay people EVER gotten anything we’ve ever attained through political mechanisms?

      I truly can’t think of anything. Maybe some trifle eludes me. But we’ve gained through our dominance of popular culture which has increased our visibility and hence our nearly universal acceptance by the younger generations.

      I understand the strong desire to overturn 8. Writing discrimination into governing documents is simply wrong. But we will have our day because the tide of history and culture is on our side and EVERYONE knows it.

      I wish the emotions driving the vindictiveness and scapegoating were directed to more creative (i.e., fabulous) ends and not into hating the haters. Letting off some steam is fine, but shouting down fellow family who caution restraint is not conducive to civil discourse. Telling Bill Condon to “STFU” and declaring a gay jihad on his films is nihilistic in the extreme.

      I wish we could show them, through our civility and respect for others’ opinions (even when they are clearly wrong), what real cultural refinement is. We should lead by example, as we always have.

      Politics has rarely, if ever, taken us to where we want to be. I admire everyone’s passion and involvement, but please, let’s show everyone else that we respect their diversity (of opinion) the way that they must respect ours (of lifestyle).

      Nov 24, 2008 at 9:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • chuck
      chuck

      @Benway:

      Dang, you make us sound like the guys in the black hats.

      You chide us for scapegoating, vindictiveness, hating the haters, shouting down fellow family, yada, yada, yada.

      You encourage us to show civility and respect for others opinions; show “them” real cultural refinement, leading by example and come up with something (did I read this correctly) faaaabulous? What the fuck are we talking about here, a new production of Peter Pan with a Mary Martin look alike?

      Hey, in case you have not noticed, the opposition, and make no mistake about it, that is what they are, have shown us none of the attributes you encourage us to show. And they have exhibited the same negative characteristics you take us to task for and worse.

      You act as if the only social faux pas the religious right has committed, is to have accidentally bumped into us, spilled our tea or unwittingly stepped on our blue suede shoes at a cocktail party.

      How can you marginalize the unconstitutional, immoral and criminal act they have just committed against the GLBT community and in the next breath, tell us to take the high moral road?

      These people are not fighting fair…or have you not taken notice of that fact? Can you not hear the blatant lies? Can you not see the hypocrisy? Can you not feel the hatred? Can you not wrap your mind around the fact that these people would love nothing more than to eradicate us, like the infamous Reverend Phelps on his notorius God Hates Fags Internet site and who is pressing for a federal law that would outlaw homosexuality, as it just was in Burundi and make it a crime punishable by death?

      Is this your twisted notion of civil-discourse? Shoiuld we blow kisses at pricks like Bill Condon and flock, by the droves to see his films? We should suck up to such monsters, kiss their asses and make nicey-nice with them?

      Tell me something. Are you drunk or on drugs?

      Nov 24, 2008 at 11:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • chuck
      chuck

      @Benway:

      I can just hear you at Stonewall, encouraging everyone to go back home like nice little boys and girls and stop acting so childish or telling Rosa Parks to return to the back of the bus because she was making a scene and committing an act of civil-disobedience and not making a good case for…how did you put it, oh yeah…civil discourse.

      Nov 24, 2008 at 11:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The Gay Numbers
      The Gay Numbers

      @chuck: @<a benway’s a right wing troll or hollywood pr person. the language choive gives it away.

      Nov 25, 2008 at 12:07 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • michael
      michael

      This is our time. I am believer that one has to find the good in everything. So what was the good of proposition 8 passing? Well, in my opinion is that it is finally binding us together in a way we have not seen since the beginning of the AIDS crisis. Gay people are finding their passion, their self worth. Sometimes it takes something like this to wake people up, and it is waking people up. Yes, this is probably embarrassing some of the A list, HRC type queens who don’t want their social and professional boat rocked. But thats their problem, not ours. We have to keep this passion alive, we have to do it for ourselves and for those gay people who have yet to be born. We have a chance at becoming a community of souls that sees its worth. And we have worth. Gay people are creative, compassionate, intuitive and brilliant people. There are no other groups quite like us and we are special. Think about the gay couple in Florida who fostered all those HIV babies that no one else would love. Don’t let anybody tell you that you and we are not worth fighting for because we are worth it. This is a revolution, a revolution of love and no revolution happens without speaking out, without standing up and being who you are. Nobody said the road to peace would be like walking on a cloud, it never has been and its not going to be now. Keep your head high and love and support one another,
      we will get there, we will get there.

      Nov 25, 2008 at 12:37 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lars
      Lars

      @Bill:
      TIME TO MOVE ON? Are you WHACKED, Bill?

      Let me give you a little history lesson.

      On June 25th, 1983, approximately 300 VERY courageous people stepped onto the street for the first ever Gay Pride Day in the state of Vermont! I was one of those people! In the months preceding our first Pride Day, the hatred, the bigotry, and the threats we had to endure was unbearable at times and many times some of us were ready to just GIVE UP! We didn’t!

      The road to equality is never easy and it took 17 VERY long years of protests and court battles to get what we rightly deserved! On July 1, 2000, the Vermont Civil Union law went into effect! We were the FIRST state in the nation to have the right to enter into a legally recognized relationship with a person of the same sex. While we don’t have the benefit of “full marriage” YET, we have far more than we did in 1983! If we had just “given up,” we would have NOTHING AT ALL!

      Think about it!

      Don’t think for a moment the hate mongers, the bigots, and the Jesus freaks have won this battle, this fight is just beginning and it will not be easy. There are MILLIONS of VERY angry people in this country who are not going to ROLL OVER and allow the scum of the religious right to trample on our civil rights!

      Lars

      South Burlington, Vermont

      Nov 25, 2008 at 7:29 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Chris
      Chris

      If you support discrimination in a constitution, aren’t you actually an enemy of a democratic state?

      In a democracy the rule of the majority is restricted by freedoms of the individual. They aren’t democrats, they are ochlocrats.

      Nov 25, 2008 at 7:59 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Willie Hewes
      Willie Hewes

      “Richard Raddon, … saw Prop. 8 not as a civil rights issue but a religious one. That is their right.”

      No. It is incorrect. The Cali Supreme Court said it was a civil rights issue, therefore, it is. Surprise, surprise, what the judiciary says actually matters.

      “And it is not, in and of itself, proof of bigotry.”

      No. It is proof of being misinformed. Or, if I were less kind, stupid.

      Nov 25, 2008 at 11:11 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CondeNasty
      CondeNasty

      @Benway

      Yes the younger generations will eventually turn the social tide, but I don’t want to wait 20-40 years for that. We are once again in a “I’m as mad as hell and I’m not going to take this anymore” mindset. We should unite and take a stand. Leading a quiet life and “passing” accomplishes nothing.

      Nov 25, 2008 at 12:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • chuck
      chuck

      @michael:

      Great post!

      Nov 25, 2008 at 2:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MCnNYC
      MCnNYC

      Agree Good Post…

      Sounds more like the A-List GLAAD apologistas who look to straight Hollywood for all their cash and glaad-handing need to take stock of what’s to come.
      I wouldn’t give a nother penny to that org and guess what…they are just about to start their annual pass the bucket award season.

      Nov 25, 2008 at 4:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MCnNYC
      MCnNYC

      Does anyone know if you have to be a US citizen in order to make a contribution?

      Nov 25, 2008 at 4:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dudous Migratorious
      Dudous Migratorious

      Who’s Bill Condon?

      Nov 25, 2008 at 5:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Derek
      Derek

      I don’t care whether a gay celeb or a straight celeb gave $0, $1, or $100,000. As far as I’m concerned, it’s none of my business who gave what. I don’t boycott. It’s ridiculous and it’s dangerous. PETA doesn’t want people wearing fur or eating meat. It’s none of their business that Sarah Palin hunts and Lindsay Lohan wears fur. I can’t stand George Clooney, so whether he gave or not doesn’t matter. I happen to like Angelina Jolie, so if she gave or not, I don’t care. Hollywood is and always has been filled with hypocrites, but we still watch tv, still buy dvd’s, cd, and still pay to go to the movies, no matter what the cost. I’m not going to stop watching my favorite shows because a writer, actor, or producer did or did not support prop 8.

      Nov 25, 2008 at 8:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tony V
      Tony V

      We need MORE protests, boycotts and anger and less conciliatory apologists like the A-list gays. In fact, we need civil disobedience on a massive level. If the the Supreme Court in CA doesn’t overturn Prop 8, I for one will be stopping traffic, disrupting fundamentalist church services, and committing myself to becoming one royal pain in the ass at every opportunity.

      Nov 25, 2008 at 10:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • chuck
      chuck

      @Tony V:

      Don’t count on Derek, however.

      He doesn’t want to be confused with the facts. He’s already made up his mind. ;-)

      Nov 26, 2008 at 12:11 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lars
      Lars

      @Tony V: I totally agree with Tony V. We need MORE protests on a massive nationwide level; and any church that engages in spewing their HATE from the pulpit should plan on a visit from a group of very ANGRY homo’s!

      Nov 26, 2008 at 2:32 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • derek
      derek

      @chuck:

      Have fun with the protests. They’re as useless as Fred Phelps! I have more important things to do.

      Nov 26, 2008 at 2:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • derrysf
      derrysf

      It will be very enlightening to watch oh-so-progressive Hollywood and its A-Gays do rhetorical back flips to justify attending their annual winter frolic at Sundance, Utah this year.

      Nov 26, 2008 at 9:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lars
      Lars

      @derek:

      Your entitled to your opinion, Derek, however you’re entirely wrong about protests being useless. I suggest you read my previous post (No.50)

      I might be wrong, but I have this feeling you have never even bothered to get involved in a civil rights protest.

      Nov 27, 2008 at 4:57 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • derek
      derek

      @Lars:

      All these protests do is make people hate gays even more.

      Nov 27, 2008 at 11:31 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian Miller
      Brian Miller

      Yeah, I mean, I’d much rather have my favorite sitcoms and fast food than my civil rights!

      Stop boycotting, faggots! You’re going to make cheese sauce and Must See TV more expensive!

      Nov 27, 2008 at 9:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Name Goes Here
      Name Goes Here

      The question is: why do we continue to allow our voices to be silenced by an unelected, but nonetheless empowered minority? And I’m not talking about the Right. I’m talking about these GLBT icons that end up speaking for everyone else and shaping public opinion. In effect, they are “representatives” but we didn’t elect them, we didn’t select them by conference. Someone with access to the media (usually entertainment types) end up being the ones to speak for everyone – whether what they said is applicable to all or not. And if you can’t see a huge GLBT split coming down the pike, you’re blind. Not just between older/younger, but also between those who live in different areas of the country; city vs. rural; and all those who further feel marginalized within the community because they don’t fit the palatable stereotype cultivated by the aforementioned entertainment types (including print and Internet media).

      Nov 28, 2008 at 8:35 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • madpmadashell
      madpmadashell

      Yes she did bother “all the bigots” surrounding her, just by the color of her skin and the fact that they thought “her uppity black ass” had NO RIGHT to even sit in the same seat, drink from the same water fountain, eat at the same restaurants or even piss in the same toilet as they did. White bigots are so “F**king stupid” when are they going to get over themselves and realize that we are the recessive gene of the homo sapien gene pool.

      Nov 28, 2008 at 11:57 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Derek
      Derek

      @Name Goes Here:

      You’re right about that! A lot of people, gay and straight, are sick and tired of Rosie, Ellen, Spielberg, Pitt, and a few other elites speaking on behalf of queers. And they are also sick of CNN, CBS, NBC and other major liberal networks trying to act all cozy with the gay community. If you want to really know what goes on with the Hollywood elites, read Laura Ingraham’s, “Shut up and Sing” book. It’s an eye opener!

      Nov 28, 2008 at 2:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Roland Basque
      Roland Basque

      My belief is that queers know what is good for them and also the rest of the world that this qualifies them to have all their demands met.Since proposition 8 was passed by a majority vote and fell way short of gay expectations it should immediately be rescinded.The majority does not matter.The world needs to embrace heterophobia with open arms as only queers know how to make the correct calculations for social harmony.

      Nov 28, 2008 at 9:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Douglas Nadybal
      Douglas Nadybal

      @michael: Michael, the Mormon churched was never sued over calling black people marked, nor did the Mormon Church alter any doctrine based upon a lawsuit. If you would stop and think, the notion that a religous group could be sued over it’s beliefs is a silly thought. You may want to recheck your sources.

      Nov 30, 2008 at 4:19 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Douglas Nadybal
      Douglas Nadybal

      @Roland Basque: the majority does matter in elections, unless you live in a dictatorship, then it does not. Maybe you should move.

      Nov 30, 2008 at 4:22 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Douglas Nadybal
      Douglas Nadybal

      What descrimination? Gays have exactly the same marital rights and limitations in California as anyone else.

      The argument that merely being in favor of Prop 8 implies homophobia is logically inept. It is akin to suggesting that if one does not circumsize their male children they are anti Semitic.

      The fact remains that the term marriage cannot apply to gay unions because gay unions inherantly cannot replicate offspring. They are fundamentally different and therefore cannot be termed equally.

      There is no homophobia in stating what is obvious.

      Nov 30, 2008 at 4:41 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The Gay Numbers
      The Gay Numbers

      Factually inaccurate to say they are the same rights. They are not. this is a matter of legal reality. any number of outcomes are different as a result of being in a civil partnership than marriage at the state and private level. the homophobia is in lying to pretend something is true when its not just to rationalize the behavior.

      Nov 30, 2008 at 4:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • chuck
      chuck

      @Douglas Nadybal:

      So, because I cannot replicate offspring, I am not entitled to bring my Filipino partner into this country?

      And are you also stating that you believe my partner and I should not have the right to adopt and raise children of our own?

      With friends like you, I need enemies?

      Dec 21, 2008 at 10:11 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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