So, because I cannot replicate offspring, I am not entitled to bring my Filipino partner into this country?

And are you also stating that you believe my partner and I should not have the right to adopt and raise children of our own?

With friends like you, I need enemies?

The argument that merely being in favor of Prop 8 implies homophobia is logically inept. It is akin to suggesting that if one does not circumsize their male children they are anti Semitic.

The fact remains that the term marriage cannot apply to gay unions because gay unions inherantly cannot replicate offspring. They are fundamentally different and therefore cannot be termed equally.

There is no homophobia in stating what is obvious.

You're right about that! A lot of people, gay and straight, are sick and tired of Rosie, Ellen, Spielberg, Pitt, and a few other elites speaking on behalf of queers. And they are also sick of CNN, CBS, NBC and other major liberal networks trying to act all cozy with the gay community. If you want to really know what goes on with the Hollywood elites, read Laura Ingraham's, "Shut up and Sing" book. It's an eye opener!

Stop boycotting, faggots! You're going to make cheese sauce and Must See TV more expensive!

All these protests do is make people hate gays even more.

Your entitled to your opinion, Derek, however you're entirely wrong about protests being useless. I suggest you read my previous post (No.50)

I might be wrong, but I have this feeling you have never even bothered to get involved in a civil rights protest.

Have fun with the protests. They're as useless as Fred Phelps! I have more important things to do.

Don't count on Derek, however.

He doesn't want to be confused with the facts. He's already made up his mind. ;-)

Sounds more like the A-List GLAAD apologistas who look to straight Hollywood for all their cash and glaad-handing need to take stock of what's to come.
I wouldn't give a nother penny to that org and guess what…they are just about to start their annual pass the bucket award season.

Great post!

Yes the younger generations will eventually turn the social tide, but I don't want to wait 20-40 years for that. We are once again in a "I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore" mindset. We should unite and take a stand. Leading a quiet life and "passing" accomplishes nothing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related

No. It is incorrect. The Cali Supreme Court said it was a civil rights issue, therefore, it is. Surprise, surprise, what the judiciary says actually matters.

"And it is not, in and of itself, proof of bigotry."

No. It is proof of being misinformed. Or, if I were less kind, stupid.

In a democracy the rule of the majority is restricted by freedoms of the individual. They aren't democrats, they are ochlocrats.

Let me give you a little history lesson.

On June 25th, 1983, approximately 300 VERY courageous people stepped onto the street for the first ever Gay Pride Day in the state of Vermont! I was one of those people! In the months preceding our first Pride Day, the hatred, the bigotry, and the threats we had to endure was unbearable at times and many times some of us were ready to just GIVE UP! We didn’t!

The road to equality is never easy and it took 17 VERY long years of protests and court battles to get what we rightly deserved! On July 1, 2000, the Vermont Civil Union law went into effect! We were the FIRST state in the nation to have the right to enter into a legally recognized relationship with a person of the same sex. While we don’t have the benefit of “full marriage” YET, we have far more than we did in 1983! If we had just “given up,” we would have NOTHING AT ALL!

Think about it!

Don’t think for a moment the hate mongers, the bigots, and the Jesus freaks have won this battle, this fight is just beginning and it will not be easy. There are MILLIONS of VERY angry people in this country who are not going to ROLL OVER and allow the scum of the religious right to trample on our civil rights!

Lars

South Burlington, Vermont

I can just hear you at Stonewall, encouraging everyone to go back home like nice little boys and girls and stop acting so childish or telling Rosa Parks to return to the back of the bus because she was making a scene and committing an act of civil-disobedience and not making a good case for…how did you put it, oh yeah…civil discourse.

Dang, you make us sound like the guys in the black hats.

You chide us for scapegoating, vindictiveness, hating the haters, shouting down fellow family, yada, yada, yada.

You encourage us to show civility and respect for others opinions; show "them" real cultural refinement, leading by example and come up with something (did I read this correctly) faaaabulous? What the fuck are we talking about here, a new production of Peter Pan with a Mary Martin look alike?

Hey, in case you have not noticed, the opposition, and make no mistake about it, that is what they are, have shown us none of the attributes you encourage us to show. And they have exhibited the same negative characteristics you take us to task for and worse.

You act as if the only social faux pas the religious right has committed, is to have accidentally bumped into us, spilled our tea or unwittingly stepped on our blue suede shoes at a cocktail party.

How can you marginalize the unconstitutional, immoral and criminal act they have just committed against the GLBT community and in the next breath, tell us to take the high moral road?

These people are not fighting fair…or have you not taken notice of that fact? Can you not hear the blatant lies? Can you not see the hypocrisy? Can you not feel the hatred? Can you not wrap your mind around the fact that these people would love nothing more than to eradicate us, like the infamous Reverend Phelps on his notorius God Hates Fags Internet site and who is pressing for a federal law that would outlaw homosexuality, as it just was in Burundi and make it a crime punishable by death?

Is this your twisted notion of civil-discourse? Shoiuld we blow kisses at pricks like Bill Condon and flock, by the droves to see his films? We should suck up to such monsters, kiss their asses and make nicey-nice with them?

Tell me something. Are you drunk or on drugs?

I truly can't think of anything. Maybe some trifle eludes me. But we've gained through our dominance of popular culture which has increased our visibility and hence our nearly universal acceptance by the younger generations.

I understand the strong desire to overturn 8. Writing discrimination into governing documents is simply wrong. But we will have our day because the tide of history and culture is on our side and EVERYONE knows it.

I wish the emotions driving the vindictiveness and scapegoating were directed to more creative (i.e., fabulous) ends and not into hating the haters. Letting off some steam is fine, but shouting down fellow family who caution restraint is not conducive to civil discourse. Telling Bill Condon to "STFU" and declaring a gay jihad on his films is nihilistic in the extreme.

I wish we could show them, through our civility and respect for others' opinions (even when they are clearly wrong), what real cultural refinement is. We should lead by example, as we always have.

Politics has rarely, if ever, taken us to where we want to be. I admire everyone's passion and involvement, but please, let's show everyone else that we respect their diversity (of opinion) the way that they must respect ours (of lifestyle).

No one stuck a gun to anyone's head to donate to attack gay families, you did it of your own freewill, with full knowledge the names of those donating was PUBLIC.

It's also hard to have a community, and this will get me in trouble, when having fun becomes the primary motivator for what defines the "community" rather than shared values. Having fun alone can't sustain you in moments like this. There has to be something more to upon which relationships are based.

Both of these things explain why wealthy and famous gays feel that they can not only ignore this issue, but give aid and support to those who actively campaign against us.

There is no community price to be paid for it. As many gays will come to their defense because they are enterained by them as will have a problem with what Hollywood types has said. That's why we have a hard time defeating the right.

It embarrasses me to say that I live in the State of Florida, where Proposition 2 was just passed.

I used the link you kindly provided for us to look up some names.

I was saddened to learn that none of my gay friends here in Florida donated to Proposition 8 in California. Not one!

Even more depressing, was the that that only one friend from my hometown, a Young Asian man at that, attended the National Day of Protest Rally. Everyone else I knew was too busy to attend, despite my calling and prompted them to.

Why did it not come as any surprise to learn that a large number of gays did not vote in California as well.

Can we talk about apathy?

Thanks for the valuable information.

http://www.sfgate.com/webdb/prop8/

While I have one friend whose donation doesn't show up, I'm convinced that it's 99.9% accurate. And, most of all, if it's a "gay celeb" you're interested in and don't find his/her name it's unlikely to be an error as the NO people would have promoted their donation to encourage others.

And FORGET bullshit like, "Well, maybe [fill in the blank] gave anonymously." Anonymous donations could NOT be legally accepted. So, e.g., if you look up Ellen and see that she only gave $100,000 out of her $70+ MILLION fortune or don't find ANY donation by Rosie O'Donnell…then that's the sad truth.

And, before anyone looks, and fires back…I gave under my legal name. LF is just a pen name. And poor moi gave MORE than Bill Leave the Mormon Bigots Alone Condon.

Anti-Prop 8 backlash changes minds

Anti-Prop 8 backlash changes minds
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo.....272/665857